A U.S. Marine begins dismantling a ring of concertina wire around a forward Marine base in Fallujah, Iraq Thursday, April 29, 2004. (AP)
A newsflash from AP
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - U.S. Marines announced Thursday an agreement to end a bloody, nearly monthlong siege of Fallujah, saying American forces will pull back and allow an all-Iraqi force commanded by one of Saddam Hussein's generals to take over security.
Elsewhere, 10 U.S. soldiers were killed Thursday - eight of them in a car bombing south of Baghdad. Two were killed in a convoy attack in Baghdad and roadside bomb in Baqoubah, north of the capital.
The Fallujah deal came after intense international pressure on the United States to find a peaceful solution to the standoff that killed hundreds of Iraqis and became a symbol of anti-U.S. resistance in Iraq, fueling violence that made April the deadliest month for American forces.
Only last week, U.S. commanders threatened to launch an all-out attack on the city to root out an estimated 1,500 Sunni insurgents inside. Even after Washington decided to push ahead with political efforts instead, Marines and guerrillas continued to clash, with the heavy U.S. bombardment of the city the past two nights televised around the world.
I hope they know what they're doing...I can hear the fedayeen propaganda already.
This marks the turning point in the war. From this point forward, the tide has turned against us.
What has happened to the terrorists who slaughtered four Americans? Are they still to be brought to justice? What about demands that insurgents surrender their weapons?This sounds like a political solution that will lead to more problems in the end. Better to end it now then have the same problems surface a few months from now resulting in even more bloodshed.
Turning point, maybe. Against us, I'm not so sure.
We can't very well deal with Sadr and his goons the way that they ought to be dealt with, but a duly chastened and co-opted former general in Saddam's army? There just might be a few shots fired into the backs of a few turbaned heads in some cellar in Fallujah in the next few days.
Best way to defeat this kind of problem is always to turn one enemy against another. Don't look at Vietnam or any recent war. Look at the history of the Indian wars. That's how we Europeans conquered North America, by turning one tribe against another.
im really not sure about this.
this idea is either going to work great or its going to be a major failure with the marines returning in 2 weeks to do there post-poned 'full assault' that they keep getting stopped from doing. im personally uneasy about how the marines have handled this whole fallujah thing but I almost wish they would just get it over with and do the full assault because if they try this iraqi troop thing and it doesnt work then more people will die because of the failure and the resulting full assault that the marines will have to do in the end. who knows maybe this iraqi boots on the ground idea will work perfectly. why will they not fully reveal who the sunni general is?
This is a sad day for the US Forces. After telling them for days that we were going in and clean out the rats nest we have now let the rats take control. How does Bush, Chenny, Rummy or Meyers expect to win if we don't have the will to fight as a nation. This shows that our command sturcture is more interested in appeasing then winning.
This will create far more problems than it solves. The perception of power is power, in a way. We are creating the appearance of a victory for the Fallujah terrorists by showing they can fight and survive (win, in their own eyes) against US Marines. This will galvanize more terrorism against US forces. If we create the impression that we are afraid to risk the lives of our soldiers and Iraqi civilians, we inevitably invite more attacks on ourselves. More importantly, we are signaling to the Iraqi people that we do not have the will to win. Which will invite them to side with the terrorists.
All in all, a withdrawel now is the worst thing we could have done. What is President Bush thinking?
This will create far more problems than it solves. The perception of power is power, in a way. We are creating the appearance of a victory for the Fallujah terrorists by showing they can fight and survive (win, in their own eyes) against US Marines. This will galvanize more terrorism against US forces. If we create the impression that we are afraid to risk the lives of our soldiers and Iraqi civilians, we inevitably invite more attacks on ourselves. More importantly, we are signaling to the Iraqi people that we do not have the will to win. Which will invite them to side with the terrorists.
All in all, a withdrawel now is the worst thing we could have done. What is President Bush thinking?
841 dead USA soldiers and between 8,958-10,810 dead iraq CIVILIANS.
This whole phoney, arugably illegal war has gone on far enough now.
It has been proven there are no WMD, which was the primary and sole initial argument for war.
The iraqi people have suffered enough, USA liberation has been shown to be fabrication of lies to the public.
The so called “precision weapons” have killed thousands for Iraqi civilians.
From recent polls in Iraq it has become clear...
US FORCES ARE WORSE THAN SADDAM
A prominent Iraqi Shiite cleric, saying he was detained and beaten by US forces, charged Wednesday that American methods were "worse" than those employed by the regime of Saddam Hussein.
"Our arrest by the Americans was worse than the arrests that Saddam ordered against our students," Sheikh Mohammed al-Fartusi told Abu Dhabi television.
As for lessing threats of terrorism, many groups can, and probably are using this show of poor iraq handling, poor intelligence to lure in naive people.
Terrorist Attacks are now imminent thanks to going to this phoney war on terrorism.
BLIX SAYS IRAQ IS WORSE OF THAN WHEN SADDAM WAS IN POWER.
Bring back the troops, stop this bloodshed, stop this attack.. as Blix states
“Bush declared war as a part of the U.S. war on terror, but instead of limiting the effects of terror, the war has laid the foundation for even more terror,” Blix said.
Read the articles below, which show what the war has caused, only look at the sad sight of USA body bags streaming into USA.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20040406/wl_nm/iraq_blix_dc
lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx
www.iraqbodycount.net/
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Operation_Iraq_Liberation_033103.htm
http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/031226a.asp
www.guardian.co.uk/print/0%2C3858%2C4790209-103550%2C00.html
Once again, search google.com, bbc.co.uk, reuters.co.uk etc etc etc for the real facts about this war.
This website posts once again depicts the Islamophobic view of a minority.
Please, "interested", crawl back in your hole. No one here wants to hear your lies -- we get them from the mainstream press.
BTW -- I've heard mixed reports on this story. It may not be true; we may just be repositioning forces.
--- BREAKING NEWS ---
US BRUTALITY, WORSE THAN SADDAM (AGAIN!)
CBS Airs Alleged GIs Abuse of Iraqis
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040429/ap_on_re_us/prisoner_abuse_iraq
BTW
I am not going to "crawl back into my hole" as you say
Lies?
They all from the news, your facts, and most of you get your sources from far right racist websites, while mine are from OFFICIAL sources.
If you cant handle the truth, you can crawl back into your hole.
bad move on the US - The perception of Power and the willingness to use it are key in defeating these Islamic thugs!
jihan
HeHe
Narrow minded Islamophobes cant take it that Islam is growing so rapidly,
Read posts above.
No facts, no figures, no nothing, just spewing filth, trolling the internet.
Yes, people carry weapons because USA invasion.
Doctors run the shifts, carrying AK47s, and other weapons in hospital! Bush is held solely responsible for this. Is this liberation?
Search yahoo, reuters, for images, and even clips of this sad event that is happening in Iraq thanks to the phoney war on "terror"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/04/12/MN152648.DTL
http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/6686f45896f15dbc852567ae00530132/a61854bf9f2c6ecac1256d05003d3b65?OpenDocument
"No facts, no figures, no nothing, just spewing filth, trolling the internet."
Nice to see you're aware of what you're posting.
BTW -- the CBS story, if you read it, is quite clear that the "abuses" were very mild, and that the US military investigated and is pressing charges against those responsible. Hardly the story you claim it is.
Would somebody please track "interested" down and let the lunatic asylum that he/she/it escaped from know where their missing patient is hiding.
Hey, Interested. Your accent sounds like Eli Wallach playing a Mexican bandit. I doubt if you're bright enough to be getting any oil-for-food vouchers, so that means you're a dupe.
But enough about you.
I think the battle for Fallujah is nearing completion. We are winning. We will not accept defeat, and thank God we do not have to. We are learning fast how to fight this war. We have the smartest, toughest, deadliest military in history. Out president is nobody's fool. He knows what to say in public and what to do in private. He works beautifully with the military. They are the best team I have seen since Eisenhauer. His party is united in his purpose, and there is great support in the country. Everybody is pulling in the same direction at this moment. The opposition looks dumber and dumber. Even the American press is beginning to act more responsibly.
This will be a failure if the Iraqi forces behave as I expect them to--They will not disarm the rebels, they will allow them to leave Fallujah and disrupt, attack, and destabilize other parts of Iraq.
If the Iraqi forces actually do something, then it won't be so bad. But I doubt they will.
intertested:"They all from the news, your facts, and most of you get your sources from far right racist websites, while mine are from OFFICIAL sources."
What do you mean by official sources? Officialy anti-american, try to make everything she does seem terrible, not tell the whole side of the story sources?
this site has the video of the pictures scroll down for the link
http://ancapistan.typepad.com/unfairwitness/
this site has most of the pics just scroll down halfway though the posts
http://discuss.agonist.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19053
Robert what these troops did to the prisoners is unamerican and unethical. i hope these soldiers get dishonorably discharged because they have tarnished the american military and the united states. further more im disgusted that you could defend the actions with out even seeing the report or the pictures!
From WaPo minutes ago: "U.S. warplanes carried out new air strikes and gunfire erupted in parts of this volatile city Thursday night, hours after Marines announced a tentative deal to end a nearly month-long siege"
THAT's how you fight Arabs!
Where did I say they should get away without punishment? I think they should be tried and get what they deserved -- EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING.
I did say what they did was "very mild", and I guess I should have made it obvious I was comparing that to what Arabs and Muslims have done to each other and to Americans they capture. I certainly didn't mean that as a defense of their actions.
The U.S. commanders on the ground have actually allowed the formation of private armies. The Sunni now have the Fallujah Protection Army, the Kurds have their own indigenous defense force and al-Sadr has his own band of well armed goons.
The old way was to divide and conquer your enemy. It was meant to win wars. Now we negotiate with them, allow them to start their own military units, and withdraw our own soldiers, many of whom died fighting against those very same people.
For all of you who are still optimistic about the outcome of this tragi-comedy, we are at the begining of a very bad end. We will leave without having achieved a satisfactory transition to any form of reasonable government, there will be civil chaos if not outright civil war, another dictator will rise up, and Iran will have its claws deeply embedded in the Shia population.
The lessons of Sun Tzu, Maciavelli(political), C. Julius, Clausewitz, Rommel and many other actual soldiers, not military technocrats in unifrom, have been lost on this generation of military officers. General Franks was smart, he got the hell out when his personal stock was at its highest. Did he see the writing on the wall?
Fortunately I can be bitter and twisted about this in the relative security of the USA. For those of you who live in the outer world of darkness, chaos, and death; after we leave, we will never be back, and you will be alone to struggle against the forces that will inevitably pull you into the "black hole" of historical irrelevance.
To those of you who had vision and courage-
Peace
To those of you who did not-
Darkness, Chaos, Death
H.Katabolae: You are wise in much of what you are saying, but consider this. Look at the map. We have our base in Afghanistan, our base in Iraq. We have huge military presence in these places now. These are not dominoes, they are checkers. We can control events in the Middle East on the ground with men in boots, with air bases, with supply depots. We now rule the map. Even if Iraq tragically goes back to the dogs -- and I play for the good people there it does not -- and we have to withdraw from the cities, we have won a pivotal role in the world's hotspot as long as we keep our bases there.
sounds like empire to me....
A Liberal's best assest is to do as the terrorists do--incite emotion--by way of photographs of casualties, flags burning, car burnings, posers standing in front of cameras shouting anti-American slogans, etc.
To get a more strategic sense of what's going on in Fallujah check out: http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/
To get a different perspective of Iraq check this out: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/mcguire200404290842.asp
Let us follow reason, rather than emotion.
And so your cowardly Marines, after killing hundreds of innocent women, children, and old men, retreat in the face of the brave mujihadeen in Falluja. In Najaf, your soldiers are afraid to engage the Army of the Mahdi.
Do you now begin to understand what Shiekh bin Ladin was saying about the strong horse and the weak horse? Get out of the Middle East and cease your support of the Zionist Entity ("Israel") before greater disasters befall you.
The flag of Islam shall fly over the White House and peace shall reign on Earth.
Allahu akbar
"The flag of Islam shall fly over the White House and peace shall reign on Earth."
What kind of idiotic statement was that. Not over my dead body.
With more "allies" dropping out of the war in Iraq the US is trying to keep relations decent with the rest of the civilized world. Since the maniacs in fallujah started their uprising we have come under attack for fighting back. We are not backing down because of the mujashdkdks. And we aren't engaging the army in najaf because we are afraid of getting ridiculed for messing up the muslim holy sites.
hahahahahahahaha
Hey everybody we can learn something from these fighters in Iraq. If you walk around with a mosque on your head you won't be killed by terrorists!
And so your cowardly Marines, after killing hundreds of innocent women, children, and old men, retreat in the face of the brave mujihadeen in Falluja. In Najaf, your soldiers are afraid to engage the Army of the Mahdi.
Posted by Reza at April 29, 2004 05:59 PM
Reza: Fachia de' merda......Stop watching al Jezeera.....They're blinding you even further with lies and ignorance. Our Marines tried for weeks to get your heroes to come out and play army, but they hid in Mosques behind women and children....They, like you are a pathetic life form.
You, Interested, and all the rest of you racists can come on this site and claim some kind of vistory all you want, you know it's false. The last few nights, as we knocked the hell our of your "brave fighters", killing loads of them, we were playing paddy-cake with these bullies.
Have no illusions, take a look at another one of your Idols, the Taliban.....what happened to them? Is Saddam Hussein still in power? Hell no, he's in jail, and his rotten sons are now dead and on ice. Yes, bin Laden is certainly a "strong horse"....if you're talking about playing hide & seek....He's no man, or he wouldn't hide in holes and huts.
Our fire power wasn't used, because your heroes hide in the civilian population.....they can't fight....thousands were sent to Allah....
Islamists know nothing of the meaning of the term "brave"...Last but not least, I've asked you for your location on three other occasions, yet like your idols in the ME, you can't seem to knuckle up and tell me......Where are you located, Satan's child?
Joseph: It sounds like empire, yes. But we are at war and this is a base in enemy territory. We need to project our power. We still have bases in Germany and Okinawa to this day. Thucidides talks of how Athens would force a democracy upon a subjugated people. If only the Arabs were as fertile soil for democracy as former Nazis.
Reza, if your jihadis are such brave and powerful fighters explain to me the story in Indonesia. Why in the world would you attack a place with machetees. Talk about some brainwashed nutcases. The Indonesian police must of felt bad mowing them down that way.
you know why we done done this because we'r a bunch a cowboy pussy's who came across some real muslim men and they kicked our little yankee capitalist, globalist, zionist faggot asses. I hope we learn not to fill the world with terrorist and injustice.
bin yamin nethanyahoo:
"why we done done this because we'r "
Wow, that is a very educated post. What does "we done done" mean. And is the word "we'r" new? I have never heard of it.
The Marines would have been better off doing what Alexander did 2,000 years ago against insurgents
in Sogdiana and Bactria. Insurgents killed Alexander soldiers who had been garrisoned in the cities and the citizens of Sogdiana rose up in support of those insurgents.Alexander decided to make an example of the local insurgents by quickly taking over five cities.After taking the cities he ordered all the men killed and the women and children taken away and given to his soldiers as loot. That ended the insurgency. The US military probably couldn't have gone to those extremes but the Marines needed to make an example of the insurgents and of Fallujah. Better to do it now then three months from now by letting the rats nest remain in Fallujah. On the other hand this new Iraqi force could be utilized in the same way the Northern Alliance was in Afghanistan. The NA did most of the fighting on the ground with the US supplying air support. This proved to be a very effective combination with the Taliban and Al Qaeda being quickly routed with few US casulties.
By all means, give this ex-Saddamist General a fortnight and every assistance to pacify Faluja, but if he can't do so within that time - bringing in for evidence many prisoners spilling much info, lots of captured weapons, etc - then Faluja ought to be made a good example to the rest of the insurrectionists (Sunni and Shi'ite, militant Islamist and fascist pan-Arab, Arab nationalist and Arab Socialist alike), in Iraq and beyond, its lesson enlightening every dark corner of the dar el-Islam.
No, not storming by the USMC, but a surgical strike, using one of the new-generation, unjacketed, directional mini-nukes, subjecting Faluja to a small (1.5 to 3.5 kilotons), but perfect, dose of sanitizing white heat (intense percussion and infernal temperatures, accompanied by minimal residual radiation and fallout).
Everybody knows that, sooner or later - if things don't soon turn peachy in the "War on Terror" - US nukes will have to be employed, initially in a bid to set an example (as above), but, should that fall short of requirements (as it well might, if not applied in a timely fashion, the peak psychological opportunity for the maximally constructive impact having been missed), then as the "meta-weapon" that the A-Bomb was originally designed to be.
Employing one of the new devices promptly would unambiguously demonstrate to the Islamo-fascists that the Allies refuse to be drawn into their trap of endless, nasty urban combat, conveying the message to them: "get with the program - or you're gone".
I fear this is the beginning of the end in Iraq. Negotiating with terrorists is always a demonstration of weakness. The Quran states that deceit should be used against infidels. Can we trust Baathists or the terrorists in Fallujah to perform? I have grave reservations.
The politicians and State have done it to us again. The election cycle and international politics are driving events in Iraq rather than military considerations.
The thugs and terrorists in Iraq will see our withdrawl from Fallujah as weakness and defeat. Perceptions matter. It will mean more attacks on American soldiers and civilians.
Fallujah should have been utterly destroyed. Instead, we have undone ourselves.
I doubt this is a disaster. We aren't going anywhere, just adjusting tactics to the situation. I agree that Belmontclub has a good analysis of the situation. Flattening a city is easy, Fallujah isn't going anywhere. Better to try to achieve victory without resorting to such measures.
Keep in mind this is a tenative agreement. I doubt the terrorists have the intelligence to stop firing on the Marines, which means this tenative agree will probably fall through.
Will is the issue. We flinched. The message is that we lack will. Let the reign of terror begin.
Not necessarily, I recall lengthy negotiations with the Taliban to turn over Bin Laden. Once those proved unsucessful the war began and the Taliban was removed from power. If this agreement does fall through the President has cover to say he tried everything before unleashing the Marines.
At first I was dismayed to hear this bit of news. But then Ithought: What if the Iraqui force under ex-Saddam generals goes in and cleans up Fallujah ruthlessly, with complete disregard to human life? It will be a taste of the old dictatorship come back to life, it will be Iraqui - on- Iraqui and the US troops will remain outside and maintain the encirclement. We did our best to reason with these people, restrained our armed forces, but when that didn't work, well, here comes a taste of Saddam's medicine at the terrorists.
However; it also could turn against the US. The Iraqui force under ex-Saddam generals might make secret deals with the terrorists, allowing them to escape, etc, etc. In this case the US will have no choice but to go back in and finish the job. Again, we did our best to reason, to hold our forces back, and to allow Iraqui s to deal with Iraquis. It didn't work , we've tried all options, now it's down to the end game.
Our simpleton Reza illustrates the view of the muslim street, seeing this pull-back from Fallujah as a victory for the mujahaddin. Not so fast. Let's see where it goes in two weeks.
Mike H
THE WAR ON TERRORISM has degenerated into a farce. Known concentration of terrorist in a city and we can't even take them out. Our soliders have been reduced to targets just trying to stay out of the way.
You don't sent troops into a hostile country to tell them not to fight. It is just foolish. And that is what the Jihadist are counting on that we are a bunch of fools.
The Fallujah farce proves this. The Bush Boy ain't got the balls to see this thing through, it's time to yank him out of the Whitehouse come November.
Wesley
Iraqis are not going to kill Iraqis (or other foreign fighters) for America. The armed insurgents in Fallujah will disperse throughout Iraq to resume their attacks.
It will appear that the negotiated deal 'solved' the problem in Fallujah. Annan and the international community will move on to other American 'transgressions' in Iraq.
The Fallujah ultimatum was disregarded. The Najaf ultimatum is being disregarded. It is being demonstrated that American forces can neither protect Iraqis or themselves. Therefore there is no sovereigntry to turn over on June 30. Just chaos.
The message is clear. Kill a few Americans and they will go away. This is bad.
Alas, yes, the US does indeed look like it's flinched in the face of a challenge, which the mortal enemy will predictably jump to exploit.
Nevertheless, a 2-week ultimatum, with this Iraqi General doing the necessary legwork (and "wet work"), will conclusively prove the point, one way or another.
If Faluja's pacified and the recalcitrants and their impedimenta are all nabbed, then fine. But if not, what to do?
The USMC surrounding the city while pro-American Iraqis sweep through will give the Islamo-fascists another Sabra & Shatilla "massacre" to drone on about and incorporate into their mythos.
The ultimately humane way to break the cycle, I've typed above: "nice nukes". They'll show every Jihadi and Islamist sympathizer that the US does comprehend that this is indeed a war to the death, that Washington's 100% serious in striving to secure victory, that the gloves are off, no more "Mr Niceguy".
The US prepared 4 A-Bombs for Japan in 1945 (destined for Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Kamakura and Niigata) and had summoned up the moral courage to use them (plus more in a month or so, if needed). It took only 2 to extract the surrender of Imperial Japan.
I don't know if the fanaticism of the Japanese was greater, lesser or about equal to that of the Islamo-fascists and their tools and running-dogs today, but I suspect that a similar approach to 1945 will deliver the same result as Tokyo's capitulation.
In this war, there'll finally be no substitute for decisive Western victory.
Here's Victor Davis Hanson discription of the enemy we faced at Okinawa. This all sounds very familiar, this is also an enemy the US decisively defeated.
_________________________________
From April 1 to mid-June, 1945, we fought die-hard enemies well entrenched in vast caves stocked with telephone switchboards, tanks, artillery, and mortars. The enemy, while adopting European arms and military organization, had completely rejected Western pluralism, freedom, and tolerance as "weak" and "corrupt," and instead fortified its military with the fanatical religion of "Bushido," a crackpot and deviant Buddhist fundamentalism that sought to marry Emperor-worship with a medieval warrior code to produce a purportedly unstoppable new type of high-tech samurai warrior. The fantatics' goal was to rid the Pacific of Occidentals, and let China, Korea, southeast Asia, and the Pacific Islands "join" an "Oriental" alliance, orchestrated from Tokyo as an exploitive empire passed off as the "Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere." Sound familiar?
American soldiers were thousands of miles distant from our shores, closer to the enemy mainland than to friendly bases. As an ally, we had only Britain — who did her best, but could not offer much in our hour of crisis. The enemy shanghaied local civilians into their army, filled them full of lies about Americans, and turned them loose against us either to charge as suicide bombers, or often to commit mass suicide themselves. Soldiers hid in civilian houses, hospitals, even tombs of the dead to avoid our bombers — which were never successful in finding the Japanese high command, but hit a lot of civilians trying. Fanatics like General Isamu Cho and Mitsuru Ushijima boasted of no surrender, rejected all efforts at armistice, and vowed to take as many Americans as possible with them. Crude propaganda leaflets and radio broadcasts promised horrific deaths to Americans and portrayed them as cowardly killers who would rape and murder innocent civilians — over 100,000 natives of the island would eventually be casualties. The Japanese leadership itself, in the manner of ancient warlords, believed Americans were decadent and soft. Indeed, without the overwhelming firepower of the United States — purportedly to be neutralized on Okinawa by offensive suicide attacks on ships, and the defense of caves and concrete bunkers — the generals swore that few of the stinking Americans could ever stand up to Japanese soldiers in battle
Fallujah was an opportunity. Civilians with half a brain had fled. Everyone that remained in Fallujah was either a sympathizer or combatant. We should have killed every living thing in that hovel. The demonstration of WILL would have sent a message to the world.
Until we can find the WILL to fight these bastards on their terms, we are doomed to failure.
Presently the Iraqis and the rest of the world fear the terrorists more than they fear us. Forget love, winning hearts and minds and all that crap. Fear is the emotion we are seeking if we mean to win.
We need to establish a sense that the damned Americans are ruthless. They will destroy a city if the residents give terrorists sanctuary or disrespect Americans (i.e. kill, mutilate and conspicuously display the bodies while doing the jihadi dance). Mothers should make their children stay indoors and grown men should feel the hair on their arms raise when they hear about Fallujah.
We should abduct terrorist's family members and let rough men do their best to dishonor the family on videotape. Let al-jazeera show that footage around the clock.
We should show foreign ministers of these nations that preach hatred for America photos of nuclear ballistic missile boats that are hovering just off-shore. Regime change by annhilation rather than boots on the ground might get their attention.
Until we are prepared to play by their rules we are just tossing our troops into a meat grinder. These people and nations need to clean their own houses. Not because they want to...because they must...or they know with certainty they will die.
We are not using our strategic advantage. Instead we die by their rules as we hamstring ourselves with our rules. Otherwise we are like Varus' legions being shredded by Cherusci tribesmen.
Either we find the WILL to win this or get ready to live in the world they choose.
The rabid Arabs and Moslems were the ones who ignited this war; the moral onus lies upon them for the casualties that are reaped.
Negotiations and deals with these barbarians are basically counter-productive - they let them arm and organize themselves better during the time wasted in discussions, delaying the imminent clash, but never removing its advent.
They must be addressed in a language with which they're familiar - force. It's grand folly to hold that America, the West and its associates should be loved, not feared, by its mortal antagonists in the dar el-Islam.
Accordingly, for those who can't stomach the idea of "nice nukes" to pacify the enemy, they ought to think of atomic strikes against them as "aversion therapy".
(BTW, Alex, the USA did have a staunch ally in the Pacific in WWII, as it has in the "War on Terror" in Iraq and Afghanistan today: Australia.
Spineless, gutless, and brainless Reza obviously refuses to realize that these people are being brought into the mix to avoid our military from absolutely flattening this city......
He is a true blue brainwashed racist, with dreams if Islamic states everywhere in the world. He, like his heroes, has no idea the firepower our Armed Forces possess.....He thinks that the terrorists are actually able to defeat us. They're a brood of street/cave/hut thugs with little to offer but stupidity and extremism.
They wouldn't come out and fight, period. This is a political move, not a military move, and the world knows it. Reza, have someone recite the news to you. Today, terrorist attacks are diminished to the lowest number of incidents since 1969.
You're idols are nearing their meeting with Lucifer......
The optimist is me thinks this Fallujah move might have some Machivellian designs to it. The Marines will pull back give the Iraqi generals a chance to round up the terrorists and if they don't give, let the women and children out and level the place. That will send a clear carrot and stick message.
As for Reza and the rest of these jihadi cultists, it does concern me that they seem to be all giddy over this appearent back down. However, rest assured jihadists the clock is ticking and your days hiding behind womens skirts and burkhas are about over.
Would please answer as to what the difference between you and other cults such as the Branch Dividians and or those idiots in the Hale Bop Comet cult that first castrated then killed themselves (at least they couldn't reproduce.) It seems to be there is no difference, but let me know your reasoning.
Reza you can't find a moderate Imam that will approve of your form of Islam. Your heros were all misfits. Mohammad Atta couldn't keep up with his sister's success so he had to tool around Hamburg and prove how tough he was by plotting to kill innocent people who couldn't fight back.
Reza you would have fit right in with David Koresh in Waco. You could have hung out with him in his bus in the basement as they all prepared to meet what they thought was their maker but was Satan instead. Do yourself a favor and change your ways immediately lest you suffer the same fate as all the other cult members in history who had to answer to God for their actions.
I have known Muslims for too long to be deceived.These people are first Muslims than anything else.Most have a double face & can lie looking right in the eye.They will take the
armaments and shoot back at the Americans.Havent we been deceived by the Sept 11 hijackers once? Why are we trusting them again? I hope they know what they are doing.
"The flag of Islam shall fly over the White House and peace shall reign on Earth.
LOL...one more terror attact on US soil and the pleas of the president for Americans "not to take out anger on muslims in America"(like he did after 9-11) will be laughed at...it will be open season on muslims, no license required, no bag limit...there will not be a mosque left standing...unless we decide to turn them into convenience stores.
There's nothing going on in Iraq or the Middle East that a few well-placed ICBMs wouldn't fix.
The only thing of yours that will be flying over this country, Reza, are your burning ashes floating on the wind the moment after you push us too far.
One will placed "mushroom" will take care of it all.... No need for our men and women to be killed. As Patton said "let the other son-of-a-bitch die for his country". Only in this case calling them a SOB would insult female dogs