Suspicions about a new terrorist attack have U.S. spies scrambling

October will be too late. Too many people will see the truth about Kerry to want to vote for him. His latest idiocy about delaying the nomination is already angering Bostonians- and most of Them are his Base! Talk about getting kicked in the head.

It may hurt Bush in the polls but he will still be voted back in. One can only hope Kerry's stand on terrorism will be highlighted so much in the next three months that the choice will be Clear- Bush in '04. We can have a president who stays the course despite mistakes, or one who Invites the terrorists into North America.

Let these evil stupid idiots move forward on their plan, and I guarantee they will have no homeland to come home to. Americans are patient, but not forever, and mass casualty attacks will be responded to in like form, with or without the support of the world and the UN.

Islam better wakeup real fast and recognize that if the countries of the middle east want to exist on terra firma, they better start stomping out the terrorists or it's the army of Islam that will be defeated in a genocidal way, not the other way around. Trust me on that one. I only pray it never comes to that, as no religion can back the lunacy of terrorism in it's truly evil form of eventual self annihilation.

Osama, your a dead man for sure, and your death may include many in the very region you are trying to protect and preserve! This is the most evil force on the earth, and it better be controlled soon or we are all going to suffer the consequences around the world in a much bigger way than we are now. WWII could look like a Sunday Easter egg hunt if terrorism is not eliminated ASAP.

I'm more worried about the Democratic Underground types than the jihadists.

Oil pipe line in Seattle will be back up and running tonight? Seams there was a blast at a pumping station? Didn’t we put some mulsums in jail in that state?
If you notice all states that carried Gore are having real bad weather? Some guy on c-span says that the dems in cal. Don’t like Bush what a shocker? He said Bush might lose Cal. Another shocker? Well I remember 2000 and Bush did not carry Cal. And still became President maybe that is where they are running all these Polls?
High Gas blame Dem’s in the Senate they have stopped all bills. So we have not been able to drill in our own Country. Well maybe they should a be walking that is what they want you to do?
Gov. N.M. was whining about not having water planes well he is in charge if his state needs the planes shouldn’t they buy them and not be building parks and such?
Why are the Arabs silent about the 300,000 Iraqi dead under Saddam? Why are the Arabs silent on all the Iraqi people Fighting with the USA? Why are the Arabs silent about the mulsums killing Iraqi mulsums? Why are the Arabs supporting Iran who is supporting UBL and giving him shelter? What did N..Korea sell to Iran and how much?
Cem plant blast in ALB. Warehouse makes swimming pool cems. Now you libs this is when you need your Duct tape.

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Al Qeida may indeed influence elections, and policy, if and only if there is a weak response to Islamic terror. If the majority of the American people act as dhimmis to the Muslim Terorists, dhimmis we shall be. Just like the Euro's have become.

Hint* We also need an alternatives to running vehicles on Muslim-owned petroleum.

Well, its the same old conservative crapartists, whining about lib'ruls when we are supposed to be talking about Jihadis.

Now they are trying to lie and lie until we believe that if Kerry wins, it will be a victory for terrrorists... please. Spain was already going to out that corn-servative idiot Anzar or whatever. He was down in the polls.

Catherine, thats an unusually long whine for you.

You soulless cons are going to whine and whine and whine, no matter what. Its the party of whining crybabies and draftdodgers.

Your idiot president got his ass kicked by a bicycle the other day... when was the last time any of you heard about a GROWN man wrecking his bicycle? AND he scratched up his face... how do you hit your FACE on the road? Were his hands in his pockets?

Can ANYONE name ANYTHING Drunkya did to fight terror before 9-11? He had eight months.

Well here we go again a serious topic comes up and Keithjoy babbles on about Bush and rightwing conservatives he dislikes. To refresh you memory I am the conservative Democrat that asked you what do you stand for and how can you achieve it. You claim your a liberal tough guy. How can you possible run an economy where you have excessive social spending and huge military spending at the same time. President Bush already has balloned the budget and he probably hasn't spent half the money on social programs as you would like.

If your goal is to turn this website into some sort of smack talking, in your face, name calling session we have enough people on the right and left that do that here. Why don't you have some constructive ideas instead of name calling. Maybe you think this is the news equivalent of the Jim Rome Sports Talk Show. If I have to hear a liberal I would rather it be Joseph. He is at least consistent and knows what he is talking about, even if I don't agree with much of what he says.

I can see it now we will be attacked by Al Qaeda and you will be posting here with clever lines thinking you are real cool. You may be very smart but choose to try to be clever. I would suggest you take a page from your fellow liberal Joseph and actually propose intelligent ideas and back them up with facts instead of name calling such as calling President Bush drunkya.

Folks, you have got to see this. Just in case Mr. Spencer declines to post it. This author at Islam Online is complaining about a petition that CAIR wants Muslims to sign rejecting violence. He claims that CAIR, get this, has succumbed to "political correctness". Hoo Boy. Words like ironic just don't do justice to this stuff:

http://www.islam-online.net/English/Views/2004/05/article05.shtml

Petition is “Not in the Name of Islam”

By Samir G. Jerez
23/05/2004

This is an open response to the recent petition by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).

For those who have not done so, please read the petition prior to reading the rest of this article.

Do you have an opinion to share on this issue? Join our ongoing discussion.

Were the thousands killed in Iraq and Afghanistan undeserving of a petition?

CAIR’s claims of prominence and representation of Muslims warrants a response that aims to work towards remedying the matter or at least clarifying their position. This response is not being stated with malice. The mission is to maintain an air of brotherhood and reconciliation with each other, Muslim and Muslim as well as Muslim and non-Muslim.

“Not in the Name of Islam” Petition

CAIR’s message has gone beyond being politically correct. It has manifested in what we were warned about in the Qur’an of not being accepted by non-Muslims until we have abandoned our religion and become like them.

At the end of the CAIR “Action Alert” on the petition, CAIR Chairman Omar Ahmad is quoted as saying “We hope this effort will demonstrate once and for all that Muslims in America and throughout the Islamic world reject violence committed in the name of Islam.” The intentions of this message are loud and clear, and reflect a lack of wisdom, assertiveness, steadfastness and loyalty to Muslims, and especially to Allah.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When was the last lecture that spoke of Jihad as anything other than an internal struggle?.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The petition was drawn up in response to the release of a video of the alleged beheading of an American Jew, Nick Berg. I say alleged because that is what it is up to now — alleged.

Jumping to conclusions against Muslims, without proof, with inadequate evidence, amounts to a mindset that is consistent with an infamous statement made by a certain rabbi that “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.”

Petition Misread

The petition appears to be a double-blinded message which, on the one hand, attempts to appease the non-Muslim movers and shakers in the US who constantly call for Muslims to apologize for acts committed against American people and interests, even before a proper investigation determines whether or not any fault lies with a Muslim individual or the Muslim population as a whole — and worse yet, in defiance of the words taught to us in the Qur’an.

On the other hand, it promotes a message of pacifism to Muslims in the US and around the world, disregarding Islam’s instructions to fight oppression and invasion. This is suggested when the term reject violence is used.

Violence and all its forms are subjectively interpreted. To non-Muslims, the desired interpretation would be “Drop all of your beliefs in fighting against our oppression.” Another possible connotation would be that Muslims should not support the death penalty or corporal punishment. The death penalty, whether by stoning, hanging or beheading, is considered a violent act by many.

Desperate to curry favor with non-Muslims, CAIR has successfully been trapped in a catch-22. Now that we’ve suggested that Muslims do not believe in violence, non-Muslims will tear us up in their writings by accusing us of hypocrisy for daring to take up arms against an occupying force.

Although the petition appeals to the world after the horrific death of one American, a petition to recognize the horrors inflicted on thousands upon thousands of Iraqi men, women and children, is never made – unless of course, they’re asking for money to improve relations with the Americans.

We basically gave in to those demanding that Muslims bow down to them. It will take a lot of work and mercy from Allah to reverse this subjugation of many Muslim nations.

Non-Muslims will no doubt use this as a means to further pacify Muslims. Many Muslims, through the influence of previous petitions and requests, are already under the impression that being a Muslim means that we have to renounce all forms of violence, even to protect our own lives. In fact, when was the last lecture anyone went to in the US that spoke of Jihad as anything other than an internal struggle?

The petition has further threatened the credibility of the substance of CAIR’s message, which will inevitably undermine future efforts of assertively lobbying and debating the US Administration.

The irony of this is that voices like mine have received violent threats by those who claim the pacifist approach... go figure. Not only that, the people that CAIR is pleasing (rightwing warmongers and their supporters) with this “once and for all” statement are the same people who preemptively and violently attacked Afghanistan and Iraq for something neither country did.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non-Muslims will now accuse us of hypocrisy for taking up arms against an occupying force.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another irony is that we, as American Muslims, are taking an overly passive and politically correct approach, while many non-Muslim Americans (especially Democrats and Liberals) have actually been far more critical of the establishment. Many American politicians (like Cynthia McKinney), activists and whistleblowers who have voiced their opinions are actually more inline with the Islamic stance on fighting oppression than we are with this petition.

CAIR’s “once and for all” seems to admit their frustration. In doing so, they jam down our throats what others dictate our religion should be. What they should do is send a message to them as to the ideals that Islam really does stand for: justice and fairness, and to be assertive, not squeamish in the process. And please don’t insult Muslims around the world by claiming that this message is just that.

A Comparative Defense

Recently, Conservative talk-show host Rush Limbaugh and others have actually belittled the atrocities of the Abu Ghraib prison by suggesting that it was the only place where Iraqis were subjected to maltreatment, and that it was only a handful of people who have done wrong. He called for the US public to put those individuals through the system, move on and get over it because it was an isolated incident.

Non-Muslims won’t just apply the petition to Nick Berg’s killing, but to the whole “War on Terror”

But it was not an isolated incident. What about the slaughter of tens of thousands in Afghanistan and Iraq ? What about other “isolated” incidents, such as the over 1,000 Muslims and Arabs being detained in the US along with their families? Some of these detentions resulted in overt torture and deaths. What about the hundreds of Guantanamo Bay detainees?

If, as CAIR’s petition suggests, they're only a few criminals, let's deal with them accordingly and appropriately. However, even if CAIR’s statement is inaccurate, as we are taught that some Muslims will take their religion to an extreme, who gets to define what is extreme? In this case, it’s the non-Muslim. In either case, we are incorrect in our political correctness.

How do we explain to a pacifist that the Qur’an states “…Say: ‘Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members.’ Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter,” (2:217)?

While I know that CAIR’s statement applied to the Nick Berg issue, non-Muslims didn’t get that message. They want it to apply to the whole “War on Terror.”

Not the First Time

This is not the first time many American Muslims jump to conclusions which later prove to be false. These Muslims would do better seeking a just analysis, tempered by patience, rather than trusting the very same media that the Republicans, Democrats or other Americans claim they don’t trust.

Everything from the anthrax attacks to the Oklahoma City bombing was falsely blamed on Muslims. Even if the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq were handled in a properly conventional manner, without prisoner abuse and the like, they’re still daily attacks and violence. And at least one of them was a war which CAIR and others originally fully supported.

Some Islamic organizations in the US have in the past, during this same “War on Terror,” taken public positions in support of the pre-emptive attacks on Muslim countries. This was done against my advice and the advice of other insignificant bodies, like the United Nations, European Union, Organization of Islamic Countries, Arab League, the Pope and a host of other groups interested in the protection of human rights. Actually, I don’t recall a single country headed by a Muslim that called for the US to take this action. Yet we find ourselves championing the cause when it suits us.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many Americans who voiced their opinions are more inline with Islam on fighting oppression than us.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The sincerity of groups who claim to represent Muslims in America is hard to prove when they actually work to stifle assertive positions such as this. While the image of American Islamic organizations is prominent, it is my humble assessment that Allah is more concerned with the prominence of our convictions, intentions and actions, rather than by how popular we are.

The hapless state of affairs that exist for Muslims in the US is a result of a series of individuals and groups who have ignored what has been taught by our imams. There is not a Shura [consultative] council of knowledgeable leaders willing to lay it all on the line. We are comfortable behind our tax-exempt, non-profit organizations that call the non-Muslims our friends in public and shun the advice of Muslim leaders or others who are seeking to steadfastly maintain our message and way of life.

An Open Invitation

I recommend that there be a debate, whether in the mosques or in public, on this very topic of being politically correct, and who it benefits, to be conducted with the mannerisms taught to and expected of Muslims. I also recommend an exploration of how Islamic organizations in the US can be held to a system of accountability, since these same organizations are promoting the essence of democracy, transparency and the like.

I call for knowledgeable people to speak out and challenge this “politically correct” approach. If none care to, only then will I throw my name into the hat, as Alhumdulillah, before the war my public statements were consistent, and I have maintained every position since then.

Writing to the mosques to “pressure” them to spread the message of the petition warrants a response from anyone who challenges this as being anti-Islamic. The Quranic verse that was used in promoting the petition [“Oh you who believe, stand up firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even if it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be against rich or poor; for God can best protect both. Do not follow any passion, lest you not be just. And if you distort or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that you do.” (Quran 4:135)] applies here as well. Therefore, it is hoped that this message will be taken with a bit more than a grain of salt and in the spirit of brotherhood.

Samir Jerez is Executive Director and certified Islamic Chaplain of the 5-Pillar Foundation, Inc. of South Florida, as well as Vice President of Operations for the National Islamic Chaplains Organization in Portland, Oregon. You can reach him at 5pillar@adelphia.net.

Hmmm. KJ should be Ignored until he presents arguments, not rhetoric. Manny at least does like the rest of us and looks at as many angles as possible....

Remember that the Islamists want to asassinate our leaders. They could go for both Kerry and Bush after the conventiopns. Death and chaos makes them happy. May we be prepared. Pray not only for our guys in uniform but, also for our spy guys/gals.

I have to giggle at posts like this one by Keithjoy. He is blissfully unaware that his words are just hollow angry echos from a loser that is still upset about 2000:) Kinda like Michael Moores proaganda films:)

Gee, I wonder what/who they will blame WHEN (note not IF) Kerry loses?

Will these misguided leftists ever wake up and realize they has been used by the democratic party that KNOWS they can not win 2004 and have placed their weakest most expendable candidate in the race keeping what they consider the best for 2008??

Shame that all this heartfelt zeal is wasted on a loser:( sorta sad. Makes me think the Keithjoys' of the world would back a baboon for President if the Democratic party ran it:)

Not that I welcome any attacks on American but the fact is if an attack came before the elections it would have the opposite effect here than it had in Spain...In part BECAUSE of Spains reaction....

We will strike you whenever it's necessary to change and manipulate your future....
The world is getting ready for an Islamic Caliphate. Don't fear us, just embrace Islam.

biodiesel is the way to go

Mahmoud:

We will wipe Islam from the face of the planet first - and we have the will and the means to do it.

keithjoy:

Instead of just mouth-farting, why don't you go back to the May 19 Giuliani thread where people actually responded to your posts? Or is that just like you - "spew and run"?

They are trying to save their own asses We the American people do not belive their lies any more than we belived "I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN" the Americans who count HAVE GUNS and they have tried to take them away as they did in Europe but we are Americans and did not fold And now their plan is Back Fireing Americans don't care about the Mulsum lies any more! they are scared. Mentat if you read their po-tic-tion it is like their Qu-ran says one thing BUT has another thing to make it okay to kill non Mulsums.

The Libs are with the Terrorist and do not forget that. What the Libs want to do is pull back well you can't win a war like that. Where are the Dems like Zel Miller who still love this country and still have their balls. We lost over 400,000 young men when we fought WW2 that was not sitting in a safe zone that freed France!!! the Mulsums in the USA are lucky we have listin to President Bush and not started killing them but more people are hearing of all the trains derailing and refiners geting hit and cem plants and we can connect the dots we don't need the CIA to tell us what is happen.

Some of these Mulsums may want to move to some mulsum land where they can live in their kind of peace like they keep telling the us [People of the USA] Islam is all about.

And Keith Joy did not take his drugs today again! Ever notice how the libs try to shut up people they know are right and when they can't shut them up they use names.
Wow Oh My! good thing I aint afraid of names that is how the terroist start and the next thing you know they are cutting your head off because they did not like what you said about mohammad like in All mulsum countrys and what is with all that honnor killing so you see kill joy you don't scare me one bit you are a lib or a Terrorist

Part Of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her FIGHTING FORCES and All who FIGHT with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Ebola out break in the Sudan?
Cem fire in Ga. not ALB

Jimbabwe my prayer is for all who fight for America not just her armys we have many who fight on many fronts.

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless The Usa and her Fighting Forces and all who fight with her give them strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Does anybody really believe that a terror attack will have any other effect upon the USA than the complete resolve to stamp out islamic terrorism once and for all?
It won't matter who is in the White House, whether Bush or Kerry. The result of any large terror attack upon the US will be a laser like focus to destroy islamic terrorism once and for all. The public will be 100% committed.
Some of the comments on this site make Kerry appear to be an Islamic apologist. I don't think so at all. We are all Americans, and one more 9-11 will push us all over the line.

Mike H

To answer your questions, Keithjoy:

What Clinton did to handle terrorism as president:

World Trade Center, New York (02/1993)
Truck bomb. 9 terrorists convicted of conspiracy, one convicted of the bombing. No foreign policy or military response despite suspected al-Qaeda involvement.

Waco, Texas (04/1993)
Operating on orders from Washington, 80 American cult members, including 17 children, were killed in a government assault because the ATF didn’t want them to have guns. Reno apparently considered them terrorists.

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma (04/1995)
168 people, including 19 children, killed in truck bombing by antigovernment terrorists in response to the Waco event exactly two years before.

Dhahran, Saudi Arabia (06/1995)
Truck bomb kills 19 US servicemen outside Khobar Towers. 14 Hezbollah members indicted. No foreign policy or military response. NOTE Hani Sayegh, one of the bombers, was in US custody for two years, before being released by Janet Reno in October of 1999.

Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania (08/1998)
Two US embassies in Africa attacked using truck bombs. 224 killed, 4,500 wounded. Four al-Qaeda trained terrorists convicted. Clinton responds three days after the Lewinsky scandal breaks with cruise missile assault on an al-Shifa aspirin factory in Khartoum.

The owner of factory, Salah Idris, sues the United States for $50 million. The government later acknowledges that the attack was a “mistake” based on faulty intelligence. Settlement was not disclosed.

Concurrent cruise missile attacks against long-abandoned terrorist training camps in Afghanistan reportedly kills 24 people (there is never any confirmation any were terrorists), In addition the attack killed 3 spiders, and wounded a camel named Habib.

Washington, DC (06/2000)
Yasser Arafat, leader of the terrorist group Al Fatah movement that was responsible for the massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics, and the murder of the US Ambassador to the Sudan in 1973, had a “very nice” lunch in the White House with President Clinton.

Aden, Yemen (10/2000}
USS Cole attacked in port by al-Qaeda. 17 US sailors killed. No foreign policy or military response.

What Bush did to handle terrorism as president:

New York City, Arlington, VA, Shanksville, PA (09/01)
2,995 dead, not including 19 al-Qaeda terrorists. Response: Destroys the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, killing thousands of Taliban extremists and al-Qaeda terrorists, destroys approximately 80% of al-Qaeda's command structure and sends the rest into hiding. Starts to set up and rebuild country under democratic system of government. The war continues with hundred of terrorists killed or captured every month.

Overthrows Saddam Hussein, capturing the most militarily offensive and genocidal dictator in the Middle East. Pries him our of a rathole after killing his sadistic sons. Starts to set up and rebuild country under democratic system of government while having to fight the American media at home. The war continues with hundred of terrorists killed or captured every month.

Mike~ Not sure that anyone here makes him out as an apologist so much as too willing to Not see the problem. But only having him In the White House can prove that one way or the other.

One of the primary things is how people on his side of the argument seem (for the most part) to want us to Forget 911 and other disasters. They won't even admit that a shell that could have killed thousands if it had exploded properly, is not a sign there Were weapons of mass destruction out there. Would not a change of administrations (which requires weeks if not several months) be the Perfect time for a major strike?

Stick with us, and keep presenting your thoughts.

Michael Hartrich:

It won't matter who is in the White House, whether Bush or Kerry. The result of any large terror attack upon the US will be a laser like focus to destroy islamic terrorism once and for all. The public will be 100% committed.

It's nice to think so, but I really doubt that we'll see anything close to "100% committment" from the American public.

A very large segment of the population (not coincidentally, the same segment that makes up Kerry's base) will prefer to engage in another round of appeasement, because their natural inclination is to assume that we must be at fault.

While there will certainly be calls to "destroy Islamic terrorism" from some, there will be an equal number of calls to bring all our troops home, cut off aid to Israel, etc.

I don't think we'll see anything close to a "100% committment" until one or more of our cities have been reduced to rubble. Killing a few thousand people here or there won't do it.

Mahmoud, you are invited to a debate with ex-Muslims, to prove your claim:

http://www.secularislam.org/discussion33/Default.htm

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/

Bob for-got Kobar towers when he hires UBLs Family to rebuild the towers!
Just a little help not that you need it.

Mohamod is fooling him self if he thinks that Americans will run away like the French or the Spainish If he lives here the mulsums set off any more terrorist attacks Bush will not be able to hold the American people back. This is why why you terrorist are setting off and killing all the iraqi people well we have told them they want a free country they have to fight and die we will send no more it is up to them and Mohammod if you are Muslum how can you kill another mulsums? IE the IRAQI people?

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

"Killing a few thousand people here or there won't do it."

and isn't that a fact worthy of examination.

-doc

i think people
who identify themselves as Christians
would be wise to review their scripture
on the Ten Commandments
and consider that the Jewish reading
of Yahveh's commandment:

"Thou Shalt not Kill"

is instead:

"Thou Shalt not Murder"

-doc

Ali Dashti,
It's very interesting to read the posts from ex-Muslims as to why they left Islam. One person even said it teaches nothing but to kill those who don't worship Allah and now this person can be killed for leaving! This is not the first time I've heard this in the past two days, also that your husband is your owner, bull! But yet I've read on threads here that that isn't so, you don't ask permission, women are allowed to market, pray. Okay then why have people who left Islam said these things? Oh I know, they are lying right? WRONG. They cannot ALL BE LYING. It's pretty hard to believe that those who left Islam and are confirming all that we have heard that is negative is all wrong and nothing but liars. Oh and Allah gave us Moses and brought the people out of Egypt and gave us Noah? WRONG! These are from the Catholic/Christian bible and it does not speak of Allah or Muslims. I think Islam is stealing from our faith and that is disgusting! How do I know this? I read for myself in the Qu'ran these tales and it made my stomach sick. I couldn't even read any further as I literally threw up. You want to say Islam is peaceful and you argue with us that say it's not. At this point, I haven't gotten further in the Qu'ran to say anything on that topic as I am having a hard time getting past the lies that I have read and after reading that, I immediately went to my Bible, prayed and read those passages in order to give myself peace. I pray for those of you who need to have your eyes opened to the truth and that one day, you will find it.

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/

there is a Buddhist story
about a monk
travelling on a heavlily populated boat...
they're all off on a long journey...
...each night
another passenger or two
turns up in the morning
murdered...found in the hold of the boat.

it goes on to relate
how the monk decides to take action,
and his efforts to resolve his
ethical dilemma after he has taken action.

___________________________

anyone familiar with it?

could someone point me to the original text?

thanks.

-doc

"Killing a few thousand people here or there won't do it."
......and isn't that a fact worthy of examination.

Well, unlike the con-reps here, I don't have two hours to respond to your whines everyday. I have to work and can't devote as much time as you to whining. When I repsonded on the 19th, everyone piled on me with crap like "I don't see how you can claim to be a US Marine and not be a christian..." Well duh. You think the US Marines is populated by altar boys and deacons. Think again.

Someone says "mouth farting"... and I'm like Jim Rome. Real mature.

Catherine says plainly above, "... the libs are with the terrorists"...

THATS the kind of bullshit I am talking about. How come a soulless con-rep can say crap like that, but if I answer in a similar manner, you say I'm crazy, or full of hate, or whatever?

I told you what Bush DIDN'T do to fight terror. Now some bright little shit writes about what Clinton didn't do. Have you ever considered what Bush Sr. and Reagan didn't do? Of course not, they're republicans.

Just answer this: were more Americans killed by Jihadis on Reagan's watch? Or Clinton's watch? Why didn't Reagan do a damn thing? Oh, I forgot: the jihadis aren't communists, so Reagan funded them.

Whine and lie and dissemble all you want. The fact is, the '93 WTC bombers were apprehended and were punished, period. The '96 bombers of Khobar Towers in Saudi were caught and punished (Arab style: beheaded.)

Now you bring up Waco... how come Clinton is responsible for the Bush admin. missing the threat on 9-11 eight months into the Bush era, yet Bush Sr. is NOT reponsible for the ATF disaster or Somalia two months into the Clinton era? Say it all together now, children: because Clinton is a lib and Bush is a con.

Furthermore, Clinton apppointed a CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN to investigate the fire at Waco and Senator John Danforth (R-Iowa) concluded that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS 100% NOT REPSONSIBLE.

But still you whine and lie, like "THE CLINTONS TRASHED THE WHITEHOUSE! THE CLINTONS TRASHED AIR FORCE ONE! HILLARY PUT CRACKPIPES AND GLASS PENISES ON THE WHITEHOUSE CHRISTMAS TREE!" Funny, on all three claims, there was never any photographic evidence.

Anyway, when Bin Laden bombed the embassies, Clinton did order him to be killed with missiles. UNFORTUNATELY the conservative Washington Times leaked that we knew he used satallite phones. So he stopped using satellite phones, and his trail went dead. So Clinton said to target Alqaeda holdings. We hit the "aspirin factory" in Sudan because FBI intelligence said it was a chemical factory. We hit terrorist training camps in Afghanistan (and missed Bin Laden by a couple of hours, before he stopped using satellite phones.)

And why did we stop bombing Alqaeda holdings? Because the con-rep dominated house, senate, and media were all whining and lying and dissembling. Too bad.

Anyway, when Bin Laden bombed the USS Cole, Clinton had only weeks left in the Whitehouse. What do you think he should have done? Bombed Iraq? Or put it this way, what should Clinton have done between October 2000 and Jan 2001, that Bush also should have done between Jan 2001 and Sept 2001? Clinton didn't want to hand Bush a conflict (unlike Bush Sr. who invaded Somalia with unprepared troops in December 1992) and assumed that W would focus on terror and Bin Laden.

Instead, Bush focused on tax cuts, SDI, and Saddam, in that order. And Ashcroft focused on potheads, porno, and euthanasia. Period. And all you babies out there were still focuse on that bulge in Clinton's pants...AND STILL ARE.

PROVE ME WRONG: name three things Drunkya did to fight terror before 9-11. (The 43 million dollars he gave to the Taliban in April 2001 doesn't count.)

All the lying, whining, conseratives here are full of sh/t and I can prove it. I just can't devote hours and hours every day. So let's settle this right now. Any one of you, just answer these questions:

Were we attacked by terrorists on Y2K?

Were terrorist threat uncovered and shot down?

What did W do to revenge the attack on the USS Cole after he took office?

What did W do to fight terror prior to 9-11?

You guys just whine and whine about how lib'ruls are terrorists, lib'ruls love terrorists, lib'ruls hate America, blah blah blah. Surely, one of you must have time to answer five short questions.

You don't know how I hate jihadis. You lie about me again and again. You challenge my patriotism... how many of YOU joined the Marines at 17 years old? You challenge my devotion to fighting against the jihad... when I argue with people that don't understand or don't believe the facts about Jihad, I don't just insult them and challenge their patriotism... I try to reason with them.

You claim all I can do is throw insults. Wrong, I can throw them much better than most of you (especially that mouth-farting Jim Rome fan) but I DON'T NEED TO. I have truth on my side, as evidenced by the above five questions, which will go unanswered. I will just get the same old responses: why do you hate America, why do you love the jihadis, why do you kick puppy dogs, why do you fart from your mouth, blabbity blab, et cetra and so forth.

JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

Here is a major step to fixing our problems:

biodiesel is the answer

because Zell Miller is not a Democrat Catherine his ilk ditched the party in the late 60's and 70's he should have gone too....

if all democrats acted like zell miller there would be very little difference between republicans and democrats.

"Bush administration national security adviser Condoleezza Rice insists that President Bush wanted to avenge the Cole, but not with a pinprick retaliatory strike, “We were concerned that we didn’t have good military options. That really all we had were options like using cruise missiles to go after training camps that had long since been abandoned.”"

Looks like Bush was trying to find a better way to avenge the Cole rather then try something that was only used to try to cover up a sex scandal.

keithjoy:

OK, calm down. Sure, there is inflammatory rhetoric on this site; I've been offended by some of it myself, from both sides. But to go on the attack so viciously against those who one day MUST be your allies is not helping the situation. Being in the apparent political minority here, it's understandable that you may get your feelings hurt - but is that the greater issue? You can debate with people without being abusive; as a matter of fact, your virulence only undermines your credibility.

Both sides need to abandon the political in-fighting if we are to unite to face the Greater Threat - Islam. People who cannot do so risk becoming largely ineffectual in that fight.

Here is why Canada is doomed: the Canadian Multiculturalism Act.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-18.7/31859.html

This really shouldn't become a liberal vs conservative argument--when the next series of attacks come--and they ARE coming--there will be people of all political, religous and economic persuasions among the dead.

We need to get the populace awake and watching--the Islamist teams are already in-place. There have been no short list of non-classified clues--and yet--the media is more interested in pushing their ideological viewpoint than in reporting on what will soon make 9/11 look like a picnic gone awry.

These strikes are going to kill a lot of people--unless someone is awake, notices something amiss--and notifies law enforcement.

This is a great time for those "moderate muslims" to help root out these teams.

Now, if we could just get the mainstream media to wake up

"Mohamod is fooling him self if he thinks that Americans will run away like the French or the Spainish If he lives here the mulsums set off any more terrorist attacks Bush will not be able to hold the American people back."

never underestamite the Arab's ability to screw themselves (and their camels). . .

Allah really must hate them too . . .

Decency for (future?) Moderator!

Seriously tho. We do get all sides of the argument here- and increasingly it Does look like all sides. Now all we need is a very rational Muslim (certainly Not Reza or Mahmoud).

I do have one question for Keith tho: anything to do with Clinton's, uhm, 20-year+ (and well-documented) problem with females is only mentioned in conjunction with the events he seemed to be trying to distract with- I mean, seriously, _Why_ did his miliatry actions follow legal situations against him so closely?

keithjoy
seems like a stable poster.

/sarcasm off

-doc

You problems is that you think you can stop Jihad with killing or capturing people like brother Osama or commander zarqawi. You are so ignorant to see the Islam will grow in the heart of the people and if 1 brother is martyred, many others are borned to replace his place. You can not understand this because the only thing you all care about is your precious material life. Soon the population of american muslims will grow so much that it will leave you with one choice: to kill your own people.

KeithJoy & Joseph

KeithJoy
You ask what Bush did to prevent terrorism. I am not the best person to ask since I am a Democrat, although a conservative one. However, I think one could conclude that since he was only in office a few months before 9-11 you couldn't expect a whole lot. I for one haven't questioned your patriotism just what it is your exactly trying to accomplish. What would you do in the War On Terror. How would you pay for a large defense budget and liberal social spending and still not wrack up huge budget deficits. President Bush already has us in a huge deficit even without a lot of liberal social spending. I have answered your question on Bush. Now answer my questions on how to fight and pay for the War On Terror and a liberal social spending policy. I think we can all do without the clever names like Drunkya. Just be like your fellow liberal Joseph and explain with facts and arguments how you are to do this. I don't agrre with much of what Joseph says but at least he give facts and points of reason.

Joseph

Being a conservative Democrat myself what is wrong with being one? Who says there has to be a huge ideological difference in America like there is in Europe. Americans are traditionally not that polarizing. Many people in south, both black and white are conservative Democrats. They have a lot of traditions like military service and religious customs they hold dear. The same could be said for us in the Midwest. That is why many of us support President Bush's War On Terror. We may not agree with all the strategies and tactics yet we feel the appeasment Howard Dean point of you would be a disaster for this country. What is wrong with this reasoning? Do Democrats have to all be liberal? We are the Republicans worst nightmare! You are their best hope! Long live Joe Lieberman and RIP Gov Bob Casey!

If you look carefully at the photo of bin Laden on his right wrist you will see that he is wearing something. Is it a "Jihad Watch"?

Long live Joe Lieberman and RIP Gov Bob Casey!

DJH

You from my home state, DJ?
Anyway, your last line calls it right. Both men were (and are) good men for this country. Joe unfortunately will never be able to make his point clear to people because he is being Honest about the situation. I hope they keep voting him back into office.

Hmmm. And to KJ: some of us have time on their hands, thanks to Canadian Immigration, whose (liberal led and run) government gives all kinds of access to 'refugees,' and the back of their hand to people who are willing to Work for the good of the country. If I were back in the States without a job your masters would be courting me for welfare and could I Please vote for the?

In the meantime I shall continue to do what I can to help my wife. But Yes, I for one will spend a fair bit of time here- learning must proceed apace!

And I just realized why you continue to use the word drunkya- because of the continued mention of the sins of Clinton. Clinton however is Still guilty of multiple cheating on his wife (continuing?), while George W. Bush hasn't committed the sin of an overly-stiff drink in...... how many years?

JUST ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

Keithjoy wants to focus on what Bush did before 9/11 because that is the only time in Bush’s presidency that he wasn’t visibly engaging terrorists. But as bartb shows above, and as illustrated by the now famous “swatting at flies” comment, the President was already working on dealing with the threat posed by terrorists in a way for more permanent in nature than any president before him, and al-Qaeda as a particular target, before 9/11. Bush was looking for significant results, not just political points.

When Bush came to office, terrorism was something that happened “Over There,” and was largely off the collective public radar. The fact none of us were focused on al-Qaeda is arguably the fault of the Clinton administration.

What Keithjoy won’t or can’t admit is that in the context of pre-9/11 politics, the American people were not committed to the use of the military in counterterrorism efforts. That is where Clinton really dropped the ball, not once, but repeatedly.

Clinton had eight years and five attacks to develop an active prosecution of terrorism along three axis; publicly, by motivating the US citizenry, militarily, by expanding budgets for intelligence and special operations forces, and diplomatically, by putting pressure on regimes sympathetic to terrorists causes. The first World Trade Center attack on Feb 26, 1993 was the first terrorist attack on American soil since 1920. It was a perfect time to advance along these three fronts.

Clinton could have used that attack to bolster US resolve to deal with terrorism, but he didn’t. He instead chose to turn the problem over to the Justice Department to handle, and has made it clear in times since that he held terrorism was a legal, not military matter. I’ll say it again, because it bears repeating: Clinton had the bully pulpit in which to evangelize to the American people on the dangers of al-Qaeda and the need to take proactive steps to reduce the terrorist threat, and he dropped the ball.

The fact that Bush was already working on counterterrorism efforts just months into his term was exceptional, especially in light of the fact that the previous administration would rather apparently rather dine with than bomb them.

Keithjoy, the fact we weren’t attacked for a sixth time on Clinton’s watch is hardly a call for celebration. I also hope that you are not trying to suggest that the Clinton Administration had anything to do with stopping the Year 2000 attacks. The customs agent who made the bust said repeatedly that the government gave them no warning of a terrorist threat, and they only made the bust while looking for drug dealers.

I, for one, don’t think that most liberals hate America. I don’t feel they love terrorists… Well, except for maybe Che and Fidel. I don’t think that the majority of liberals are unpatriotic.

I feel that most are ignorant (not stupid, but ignorant) about the nature and goals of our enemies. I think that a sizable and very loud group of liberals care more about defeating Bush and the non-cons than stopping or preventing terrorists.

I don’t think liberals are evil. Just wrong.

Oh, and while I’m here, could you please quit bring up your military service on every thread? We hear enough of it from
Kerry. We don’t need it from you.

Mahoud,

We can manufacture bullets faster than Islamists can manufacture terrorists. If we have to rein in our own people, we will, but I’ve not seen the rise of radical Islam in the United States that you’d like, so I wouldn’t hold my breath if I was you.

Joseph,

Zell Miller is a classic old-school southern conservative Democrat. In his own words, “I didn’t leave the Democratic party. It left me.” He is technically correct. While Miller’s stance never changed, the Democratic party’s platform has swung much further to the left. Look at their political platforms for elections from the 1950s until today, and the shift becomes readily apparent.

Also, the big difference between conservative Democrats and Republicans generally was a domestic issue. Demos, as always were for social programs, but conservative Dems and Republicans have always been pro-defense.

This thread is full of expressions of hatred, anger, and threats. But most of all, it shows how much many of you fear Islam. May I ask why? Islam represents Allah's (swt) divine plan for all aspects of human life. It is perfect in concept and prescribes and explains everything in the universe for all time. It is simply the completion and perfection of the flawed and incomplete Jewish and Christian religions which came before Islam and were corrupted by evil men.

You all appear to be proud of warring against Almighty Allah (swt). Don't you understand that the battle is over? Islam is spreading across the entire Earth. It is unstoppable. I have implored you many times - study Islam and learn of its truth and beauty. Allah is truely merciful and compassionate. Embrace Islam and know true peace, and know that true freedom comes not from false Western gods like "democracy" but only in accord with the teachings of Islam.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim. That is not a threat. I say this only to give you hope for the future.

Allahu akbar

"You all appear to be proud of warring against Almighty Allah (swt). Don't you understand that the battle is over? Islam is spreading across the entire Earth. It is unstoppable."

Reza, I think I've finally figured you out.
Published from http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2699/is_0000/ai_2699000086

"Delusions are generally experienced by people suffering from a severe psychotic disorder, usually schizophrenia, although delusional thinking can occur in other types of patients (as the result of drug or alcohol abuse, for instance). Typical delusional ideas are categorized into delusions of grandeur, in which a person imagines for him or herself some God-given purpose or, in some cases, believe they are in fact historical personalities of great importance. Another type of delusion are delusions of persecution, in which a patient will believe that some person or group is out to harm him. Still another set of delusions involve what are referred to as "command hallucinations," in which a person hears voices telling him or her to commit an act. These delusional thoughts can lead people to acts of self-mutilation or to violent criminal acts."

"You problems is that you think you can stop Jihad with killing or capturing people like brother Osama or commander zarqawi."

I don't think anyone on this forum believes that.

"You are so ignorant to see the Islam will grow in the heart of the people and if 1 brother is martyred, many others are borned to replace his place."

This is exactly what motivates us.

"You can not understand this because the only thing you all care about is your precious material life."

And this is what will ultimately destroy you because you do not comprehend your enemy.

Mr. Owens:

I have the same God-given purpose as every other person on Earth, including yourself - to worship and praise Allah (swt) and to submit to His (swt) divine will.

Allahu akbar

Gary... Clinton's military action followed the embassy attacks in Africa. Just because the rep-cons were out to get him over a bj, does that mean he shouldn't have done anything?

bartb.... "Looks like Bush was trying to do something better than..." LOLOLOLOLOL!!! Is THAT why he didn't do one single thing? Is that what he was doing on vacation for A MONTH prior to 911? Is that why W ignored the terrorist chatter and the Presidential daily briefings? Is that why W gave the Taliban $43 million in April 2001? Is that why W was so intent on SDI (you know what that means, right?)

"We didn't avenge the USS Cole bombing because ... we were concerned that we didn't have military options..." SO, how come Bush didn't have military options, but Clinton should have? How come Bush didn't have military options in January, but did in September?

This is just more proof that you con-reps can't say anything except lies and crap. I ask you to name one thing your messiah did before 911 and you spurt back with some insult about covering up a sex scandal. More dissembling for President Gump.

Decency... Yes we will have to stand together to fight the coming war. But I fear that the likes of Catherine and Mike Savage are more concerned with fighting lib'ruls that Muslim terrorists.

Hurt my feelings? LOL. I don't have any. But I will not let liberals be bullied by soulless conservative loudmouths, for the same reason I won't let Israel be bullied by "liberals."

Doc... you "forgot" to answer those five simple questions. What a surprise. Don't you have any insults for me?

decency.... "calm down"? I'm not excited. I'm not the one who writes in on EVERY comment forum complaining about John Kerry and Bill Clinton. I am ANSWERING those that start the political b.s.

They are the same ones that go to every chatroom and every ten minutes claim that Clinton did nothing to fight terrorism, and caused 911. They are the same ones that send out emails detailing how Hitlery snubbed the Gold Star Mothers, how Clinton had 70 people murdered, how Clinton bombed the Murrah Federal Building in OKC, how Hitlery is a lesbian who had an affair with Vince Foster, etc.

DJH..... if you don't blame Bush for what happened eight months into his term, do you blame Clinton for what happened two months into his term? (The first WTC bombing, Waco, and Somalia?)

Perhaps you don't. Maybe you shouldn't. But the rep-cons were blaming Clinton within hours of the 911 attacks. Tell me that's not true. You know they were. Bush is the one that ignored the briefings... ones entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike in the US"... ones that mentioned the WTC as a possible terrorist attack THREE TIMES. (This was on the May19 Rudy article.) Terrorist chatter was at an all-time high... Bush STILL went on a month-long vacation in August.

Just imagine the fury from the right-wingnuts if this had happened on Gore's watch. They wouldn't blame it on Clinton then, they'd blame Gore and call for impeachment procedings.

Again I say: without the insults and lies, you con-reps are empty. No substance, just style. Thats all you have. You all have a lot in common with the Jihadis; its YOUR president that fawns and gushes over Islam in general and the Saudis in particular.

And still, no one wants to answer those five little questions?

I would like to end the political side of this debate, but I am not going to be done in by loudmouthed douchebags that blame everything on Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Hilary.

Can anyone help me with data about the Jihads worldwide, over say the last century? For instance, 200,000 killed in Lebanon 1975-1985, two million killed in Sudan 1980-2004, 100,000 killed in Algeria 1900-2004... I want to complie all these facts into a graph so when I hear a loudmouthed, LIBERAL douchebag pipe off about how evil Israel is, I can show them that they are lying, hypocritical, and selective (sound familiar, Catherine?)

Alright, I'll try to check in later and see 20 comments about how bad I am, how I hate America, whatever.

Gary.....Man, find a moderate Muslim? Sometimes you can in college, the scientists. I went to HR Block to get my taxes done and the guy that did it was a Muslim atheist. He was from Iran and so sad about what they've done to his nation. He said it wasn't so bad under the Shah... he had Jewish friends that would sell wine to him. He and his wife fled for India in the nineties, a real multicultural paradise compared to Khomeini's hellhole. And finally they settled here. You don't often meet someone like this guy, but what a pleasure when you do.

Well good luck everyone. Anytime the soulless c-r's want to shut the hell up and leave their politics out, I will be happy to go along. Until then, I have two size 13s ready to redden a fanny.

Mahmoud:

1.) It will not happen here.

2.)Before Iran gets the nukes up and running Israel will have missile defense.

3.) WHEN Bush forces "palestine" to become a nation, and WHEN they bomb Israel immmediately thereafter, "palestine" will disappear. Boom!

4.) Islam expands because if you leave, they'll kill you, and women are forced to have 6,8,10 kids.

Visit www.secularislam.org for the truth about the most dangerous, conservative cult in the history of the world.

Reza,

Apparently, Alla's divine will demands a LOT of Arab martyrdom.

I'm just glad to be doing my part to help.

Keithjoy,

You left me out of your snappy comebacks.

Facts hurt, huh?

Reza:

I have implored you many times - study Islam and learn of its truth and beauty.

Sorry, Reza, but most of us here HAVE studied Islam, which is exactly why we're so determined to stop the spread of your cult.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim. That is not a threat.

More like some sort of fantasy on your part.

At the rate things are going, the only Muslims in the world by the time I have any grandchildren will be in history books.

That's not a threat. Simply a statement of fact.

Keithjoy and his opposition:

Frankly, I am astounded by you people. Unless you can put aside your grievances toward each other and band together to defeat our common threat, we are all doomed. Maybe that's what the Muslims are counting on. Don't think that they haven't noticed the acrimony on this forum; I'm sure it only strengthens their resolve and energizes their own rhetoric.

Keithjoy: You are in the minority politically here for a reason. That said, I applaud your efforts to convince others of your "persuasion" of the "clear and present" danger that our society faces. PLEASE back off on the insults and try to work with us to accomplish SOMETHING POSITIVE. For a person with "no feelings", you have an awfully thin skin.

Decency:

Frankly, I am astounded by you people. Unless you can put aside your grievances toward each other and band together to defeat our common threat, we are all doomed.

Agreed, which is why I haven't responded to him since his initial insult-hurling session the other day.

Reza,

In line with what lobo 91 said about being Islam being history, the new terror report spackled all over the news sites is quoting an al-Qaeda leader is saying they would like to see 4 million dead Americans.

Do you support this?

As you have yourself noted, I’m somewhat of a moderate, a “voice of reason,” I believe you once called me.

If Arab Muslims think they would be around to celebrate such an event, they are gravely (pun intended) mistaken. There was already an undercurrent of support for using nuclear weapons as a result of 9/11. A similar attack on the United States would raise that call again, but cooler heads would probably prevail. A massive strike, with five-figure casualties, or anything more severe, would force us out of the limited war mode we are currently engaged in, and push us into total war, where every option is on the table. These options could include nuclear assaults. In fact, you might see demand for it from the public if a terrorist attack is bad enough. So I have a question for you, Reza, and any other Muslin who posts here:

Will you still face east to pray to Mecca, even when Mecca is no longer there?

Gary and Reza

Gary, I am guessing you are either from Connecticut or Pennsylvania. If your from Pennsylvania I am from next door, Ohio. Long live the God and Country Democrats!

Reza, I have submitted myself to the will of God. It appears you have not submitted yourself to the will of Allah, but to Bin Laden. You have spoken affectionately about him without answering as to why you don't embrace peaceful Islam but the Islam of Bin Laden which moderate Islamic clerics say is not Islam. Are the moderate clerics right or are yout right!

Reza I am a Catholic Christian and since Islam recognizes Jesus as a great prophet, you can understand this question I pose to you. Jesus said, "You Shall know the tree by it's fruit" I think Bin Laden's tree is full of disease, death and evil. What do you say?

It's really interesting to see you peterists are trying to convience me to go look on your zionists sites and see how you ignrantly want to delude yourself from accepting Almighty Allah (swt) will to stablish Islamic World Caliphate on earth. Stop resisting Allah's will and embrace Islam and live in peace with the rest of muslim brothers.

Reza, thanks for again proving our point with your babble and blunder. American Muslims need to know that they will be in grave danger if another terrorist attack is carried out on the United States.

They also should know that America, at least the sensible sect, doesn't have any reluctance in telling them that we're non-Muslim, will remain that way, and if they have a problem with that, it will be their problem, and likely their end.

We're not here to appease Muslims and their ridiculous inflation of self importance.

One more attack on U.S. soil will bring the vendetta from 9-11-01 to its resolution. Over inflated egos, over inflated population numbers, over inflated self importance. Muslims, many, seem to have the desire to over estimate figures in order to give the appearance that they're far more prominant than they truly are.

Almighty Allah (swt) will to stablish Islamic World Caliphate on earth. Stop resisting Allah's will and embrace Islam and live in peace with the rest of muslim brothers.

Posted by Mahmoud at May 25, 2004 03:20 PM

Like hell.

KJ
"Is that why W ignored the terrorist chatter and the Presidential daily briefings?"

Prove this. You want questions answered with fact but you make up false statements. One can always tell when an angry liberal is around because the name calling flies. See for yourself.

Names my president and I were called by KJ:
loudmouthed douchebags
rep-cons
con-reps
soulless c-r's
right-wingnuts
soulless conservative loudmouths
W
messiah
President Gump

Keithjoy,

I'm still waiting for a rebuttal to my JUST ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS post above.

You wanted logical discourse. Now you have it, lets see what you can do with it.

Well,you can certainly tell which threads get the most commentary. Even IF most of it is totally off the topic of terrorist chatter. Altho I suspect the first bomb that goes off is going to see a 10-fold increase in chatter on this board.

Reza~ You know, you actually Improved. Thank you. We're still going to argue with you tho.

Keith~ Yo! Your language improved a fair bit in that last. Again, Thank you! We may disagree on things but it's more fun to Talk than shout.

DJ~ Pennsylvania. Unfortunately many of those I know and love back there are too close to the capital, which is where I grew up. Does anyone know if our military is still flying watch over TMI?

(Decency for Moderator! Or would that be: Referee?*g*)

I very much am concentrated on fighting radical islam or may I just say islam. I just don't like it when there is name calling and falsehoods going around. Usually nobody cares what I have to say but it must mean something to KJ.

"Frankly, I am astounded by you people. Unless you can put aside your grievances toward each other and band together to defeat our common threat, we are all doomed."

I am all for this but think that the only way this can be done is if we all "band together" and vote Bush back into office.

Sorry, BOB OWENS.... I started my reponse before you posted yours. I didn't realize you wanted your ass reddened, but here we go.

BO: "Keithjoy wants to focus on what Bush did before 9/11 because that is the only time in Bush’s presidency that he wasn’t visibly engaging terrorists. But as bartb shows above, and as illustrated by the now famous “swatting at flies” comment, the President was already working on dealing with the threat posed by terrorists in a way for more permanent in nature than any president before him, and al-Qaeda as a particular target, before 9/11. Bush was looking for significant results, not just political points."

KJ: So what DID he do? "Tired of swatting at flies"... is that why he gave the Taliban $43 million in April, 2001? Part of his "big plan"?

LOL... poor Bush... he was so tired of "swatting flies" that he had to take a month-long vacation in August, 2001. Nice try Bob.

BLOB: "When Bush came to office, terrorism was something that happened “Over There,” and was largely off the collective public radar. The fact none of us were focused on al-Qaeda is arguably the fault of the Clinton administration."

KJ: So terrorism was off the radar screen and happened "over there." Was it "over there" after the bombing of the USS Cole? Or is that different? Was it "over there" after the Somalia incident? Bush ignored Alqaeda because he was focused on Faith-Based bullshit, SDI, and getting Saddam. Cliton was repsonsible for informing the public? What about FOX News? Why didn't they inform the public? Ollie North says he testified to congress that Bin Laden was a threat, how come he never mentioned Bin Laden on his columns and radio shows?

B.O.: "What Keithjoy won’t or can’t admit is that in the context of pre-9/11 politics, the American people were not committed to the use of the military in counterterrorism efforts. That is where Clinton really dropped the ball, not once, but repeatedly. "

KJ: No, I'll admit it. The American people weren't committed to the use of the military because we have come to "expect" Muslims to kill our Marines and Sailors overseas. That started with Reagan and Beirut. But he and Bush Sr. were reps, so let's not bring them up, shall we?

Why should the people have not been committed to the use of the military in Feb 2001, but should have been in October 2000? I know your answer already: Blame Clinton.

Bob Blowin': "Clinton had eight years and five attacks to develop an active prosecution of terrorism along three axis; publicly, by motivating the US citizenry, militarily, by expanding budgets for intelligence and special operations forces, and diplomatically, by putting pressure on regimes sympathetic to terrorists causes. The first World Trade Center attack on Feb 26, 1993 was the first terrorist attack on American soil since 1920. It was a perfect time to advance along these three fronts.

Clinton could have used that attack to bolster US resolve to deal with terrorism, but he didn’t. He instead chose to turn the problem over to the Justice Department to handle, and has made it clear in times since that he held terrorism was a legal, not military matter. I’ll say it again, because it bears repeating: Clinton had the bully pulpit in which to evangelize to the American people on the dangers of al-Qaeda and the need to take proactive steps to reduce the terrorist threat, and he dropped the ball."

KJ: Yes, its too bad that Clinton had to devote time to fighting for his life, since the soulless rep-cons wanted to crucify him for a bj. Is it the presidents job to educate the citizenry?

I'll say it again, because it bears repeating: Clinton did use the military to fight terror, remember the cruise missiles sent to Sudan and Afghanistan? Yes, I remember that Bush Sr's FBI made an aspirin factory a target. But if AlQaeda used the factory to make aspirin and sold the aspirin to buy guns and bombs, why not bomb it?

OF COURSE at the time, the rep-con mantra was "He's wagging the dog... he's wagging the dog..." So Clinton was pressured to stop. NOT TO MENTION OBL stopped using his satellite phone because of the Moonie Times. (See previous post.)

To sum: when Clinton did something, your side made him stop. Now you say, he didn't do enough, or better yet, that he did nothing.

Turned it over to the Justice Department? LOL!!! What are you, 20 years old? Is that what they teach you at the Limbaugh Institute, that the Justice Department can send Tomahawk Missiles to Afghanistan and Sudan? Nice try Bob.

Bobo: "The fact that Bush was already working on counterterrorism efforts just months into his term was exceptional, especially in light of the fact that the previous administration would rather apparently rather dine with than bomb them."

KJ.... It is to laugh. Was it Clinton that had the big Ramadan feasts DAYS after 911, while the fires were still smouldering? Was it Clinton that let the Muslim preacher speak first at the 911 memorial service (the only thing you noticed then was that GORE HAD A BEARD!" What a joke you are.

Bush was exceptional... what did he do? Can you name even one thing that isn't based solely on the eyewitness account on Condi-lezba Rice? Anything?

BOOB: "Keithjoy, the fact we weren’t attacked for a sixth time on Clinton’s watch is hardly a call for celebration. I also hope that you are not trying to suggest that the Clinton Administration had anything to do with stopping the Year 2000 attacks. The customs agent who made the bust said repeatedly that the government gave them no warning of a terrorist threat, and they only made the bust while looking for drug dealers."

KJ: But the Clinton administration used the guy from the border bust to get information about the LA airport bomb plot... and they used those terrorists to find out about the plot to bomb planes over the Pacific. It's called "following up" and when one is NOT OBSESSED with pornography, potheads, and Oregon's euthanasia law, it is what they do. Ashcroft's approach to national defense was "Faith Based:" he thought, we are invincible because I am doing God's will. Way to go, Ashcroft. Why don't you go bust a terrorist?

That's why the FBI's warning that Muslim Arabs were learning to fly but not land jetliners went unheeded. (But apparently Ashcroft had a lapse of faith because he quit flying commercially in June 2001.)

That's why Bush went on a month-long vacation after 7 months of 24/7 taxcuts and SDI.

That's why no fighter jets were scrambled until after the Pentagon was hit, and after both WTC towers were hit. Couldn't they have at least sent up ONE fighter jet to blow out the jet that hit the Pentagon? (Oh, wait, I know the response: because CLINTON DECIMATED THE MILITARY. (The same military that killed the Taliban in a week and Iraq in a month.) In other words, he continued the downsizing started by Bush Sr... it was just in the news that Bush is NOW going to close down some military bases. Are you going to accuse him of hating the military too? Of course not! He's a con-rep! The news says that 45% of the US military is not going to re-enlist... so when we get that critical shortage soon, we will have to call up the draft.

Of course, the best thing for you is for Kerry to beat Bush in November. You see, during war the military can prolong your enlistment as long as they want. So if Alqeada nukes Pittsburgh in 2005, and there aren't enough troops to invade Sudan, you can scream: "Kerry decimated the military!" And if the stock market tanks (even more) you can say "Kerry caused this recession." If it doesn't you can say "Bush caused this good market."

That's why even after being told that we were under attack, president Chimp KEPT reading to children for twenty minutes.)

How does that boot feel, Bobby Boy?

And Stop pretending like bother Osama's next attack on america will bring our muslim brothers an atom bomb!!! we are not affraid of your bombs. We are not affraid of losing our lives to establish Islamic World Caliphate. Stop threating us with your bombs. Almighty Allah (swt) will protect us in any situation.

hmmm... I'm confused by something --

why is that when people like Catherine says "liberals are terrorists" or "we'll throw you [liberals] to the monsters" or questions whether I have "balls" because I don't support the war in Iraq (see the previous Chalabi thread), all of you fail to say anything rebuking her -- however, when people like myself or Keithjoy try to defend ourselves, we're told to calm down, and try to maintain a spirit of friendly debate? of course our responses to such hateful garbage is going to be incendiary (that's what happens when you provoke people -- they get incendiary)... we're told to turn the other cheek, and yet she and people who post similarly to her are told nothing?

I think all of you have a huge double standard - it's okay for catherine to say things like "Keithjoy did not take his drugs today" -- as if, just because she agrees with your politics, phrases like these are not ad hominum attacks somehow? Yet we are expected and encouraged to turn the other cheek and try to debate the issues...

by not saying anything, by your silence, you do nothing but defend and agree with them.

CGW - you were quick to tell me to "ease up" on catherine, that she was a respected long-time poster, after I went off on (and I'll admit it) a tirade, attacking her intelligence for attacking my patriotism... that the point of this forum is to debate ideas and share information. yet why are you so silent now? Do you honestly think it's right for Catherine to call a person who is fighting in our armed services, who has sworn his life to protecting the united states, a terrorist just because he's liberal? may I dare to ask, Catherine, just what in the hell have you ever done for this country that gives you the right to say that? Lobo, we debated some different ideas, and I disagree with you on points, but I would never have the gall to question your values as an American or as a soldier. Why don't you chime in about expecting the same from her? Decency - why don't you address a post to her and ask her to calm down and tone down this unconstructive rhetoric?

If you want this forum to be about ideas, you better start expecting a high standard from both sides of the debate, not just the people you disagree with.

A charming young lady by the name of Diana Nielsen (gadengrow@earthlink.net) took it upon herself to send me this email:

"Your comments are due to the TERRORISTS NOT the Americans and the coalition troops" (whatever the hell that means)

Of course, I'm not blaming you guys for sending me this garbage, but you need to understand that it's crap like this, and like what's going on in these boards, that makes me think twice about whether it's worth my time to post here or not --and if all of you guys just want a forum where you can share amongst yourselves the exact same opinion and never hear a different viewpoint, may I suggest that you move to Cuba, where you can be surrounded by a government that encourages you to only have one point of view.. perhaps it would be more your speed...

Mahoud,

Jihadists will soon go the same way as the fanatical suicidal Japanese followers of Bushido "a crackpot and deviant Buddhist fundamentalism" who met their end in world war 2.The difference is the Japanese were fiercer, better fighters and better equipped then the cowardly Muslim filth we're fighting today.It took the US military only a few weeks to remove the governments of and take over two Islamic countries, the Japanese were a lot tougher then that.Nuclear weapons were used against the Japanese because though the US could have taken Japan (as we did Okinawa) it would have been at the cost of a great many American lives. The nukes were use to ensure that primairly Japanese lives were lost (get the picture).The statements I read here from Jihadiwannabes have convinced me Muslims really are delusional.

And Stop pretending like bother Osama's next attack on america will bring our muslim brothers an atom bomb!!! we are not affraid of your bombs. We are not affraid of losing our lives to establish Islamic World Caliphate. Stop threating us with your bombs. Almighty Allah (swt) will protect us in any situation. who@are.you

Posted by Mahmoud at May 25, 2004 03:38 PM

Brother Osama? Where are you? The word afraid is spelled with one F, not two. Who said anything about bombs? No bombs are necessary to beat dingalings that bring machetes to gunfights.

Stop being stupid, if you can. Muslims are taking a beating all over the world mainly because everyone who lives in modern day society is sick and tired of hearing about Islam, and sick of listening to your ridiculous threats. You are punks. So, go ahead and hide behind the skirts of women like little boys as you try to wage war, you century impaired loons.

By the way, being afraid has little to do with being sent to your black rock Allah sooner than expected, you want to die, then die you will, if you continue this war on the West. Your fat "brother" al Sadr, look at him. Loser wannabe with hopes of running Iraq. You stooges never learn.

If your "brother" Osama is so brave, why is he hiding in a cave? Jihad Muslims, like Mohammed (sboh) are vandals, rapists, woman beaters, thieves, liars, and murderers. Is this what you're proud of? lastly, you are afraid of our bombs, our guns, and our troops. This is why you're heroes hide in shrines and mosques. Hypocritical bigots, the lot of you.

Mahmoud:

Yeah, Allah's doing a great job of protecting you so far ... especially in Afganistan, Iraq, and let's not forget those "palestinians" ...

barbt whines:

"Is that why W ignored the terrorist chatter and the Presidential daily briefings?"

Prove this"

KJ: Check jihadwatch.org, Rudy Guliani post from May 19th.

Name calling? Oh, the humanity. Whimper-whine.

You can always tell when conseravtives are around because they refuse to answer simple questions like:

What did President Monkey-in-a-man-suit do to fight Osama prior to 9-11? What did aWol NOT do that Clinton SHOULD have done?

What are you, 12? Have you forgotten the nineties? I thought it was cool to insult a president, or did that go away with "Never, ever trust a draftdodger"?

What would you do if I called him:

Drinky
Cocaine Cowboy
aWol
Bush baby
Walking Disaster
Arbust-ed
Colin Powell's Bastard Son
Bonzo Jr.
The Mind of Reagan
Jenius
Draftdodger-in-Chief
Prince Saud's Cabana Boy
Prince Saud's Bee-yotch
dWi
Drunkya
Dumbya
Duh- bya
Nook-you-ler scientist

Here we go again:

Blob
Bob Blowin
Bobo
Boob
Condi-lezba Rice

Way to go KJ you have cut the number of name callings by about half. I notice you have not said anything about my last post.
Why is it that all you have to say is the same things over and over again. Bush took a vacation blah blah blah aspirin factories are bad blah blah blah. You constantly use the exact same arguments.
KJ everyone knows that the economic boom during the Clinton years was a result of Reagan's supply side economy. Clinton ruined it by raising taxes and now Bush is bringing it back. And if Kerry does win (God forbid) the stock market will fall because of the raised taxes.

Keith:

Why don't you chime in about expecting the same from her? Decency - why don't you address a post to her and ask her to calm down and tone down this unconstructive rhetoric?

Mostly because I generally scroll past her posts. I don't find them particularly constructive, but I'm also not interested in wasting bandwidth engaging in multi-day arguments with people that are unrelated to the topic at hand.

Try it some time.

Get all you are answers from the Democratic Underground, Keithjoy? I asked you to provide a decent rebuttal, and all I get from you is the same tired conspiracy-laden answers you try to use in every post, on every thread, regardless of topic.

All you can come up with is a recurring rant that sounds something like this:

“Bush took a vacation with the Taliban where they spent $43 million dollars on a faith-based SID program intent on getting Ollie North on Fox News to attack Saddam for Reagan pulling out of Beirut in a non-con conspiracy while Clinton was fighting for his political life over a blue dress with a white stain that was all part of a vast right wing conspiracy that wanted to crucify him for wagging a dog he didn’t wag because Osama quit using the sat phones because of the Washington Times obsession with pornography, potheads, and euthanasia laws that were part of a plot by John Ashcroft who quite flying commercial aircraft when Bush starting doing nothing but pushing tax cuts 24/7 since that is what President Chimp/Gump wanted while he was reading a book to school kids for 20 minutes.”

Sound about right? I gave you your evidence, you resort to your normal baiting tactic of name-calling, and here we are.

If that’s your best, your best isn’t very good.

You can not impose your kurf on us. how many people you think you can kill more in iraq? One day you will be out of iraq and the only thing iraqis will remember is the torture and rape atrocities in abu-ghoraib by ordinary american soldiers. You don't give a damn about freedom and democracy, all you care is your white christianity and how you manipulate your zionist plan on earth but you can not cheat muslim brothers with your man made laws.

Now on to the topic at hand. I do believe that the terrorist threat in this nation is growing and that there are many opportunities that our law enforcement has let slip by. One big concern that I have is car bombings. I drive 40 miles everyday up 1-75 to go to school and pass about 10 abandoned vehicles along the road. They have been there for about a month now. I see a big danger in them because a terrorist could easily fill one with explosives and set it off with a cell phone. It may not cause much damage but it would mess with the minds of many and the tracks to who detonated it would be muddled because it would be someone elses car. What should I do to inform people about this danger? Has anybody talked to law enforcement about terror threats themselves? Do they listen to a regular citizen or do they think there stepping into their work?

"You can not impose your kurf on us. how many people you think you can kill more in iraq?"

If necessary, about 24,982,412. Or thereabouts. Fortunately, most Iraqis are intelligent and better educated than their neighbors, so I'm sure it won't come to that.

Mahmoud:

One day you will be out of iraq and the only thing iraqis will remember is the torture and rape atrocities in abu-ghoraib by ordinary american soldiers.

I'm sure that's all SOME of them will remember.

I'm sure there are even some of them who would rather have Saddam back, plastic shredders and all.

Unlike you, however, I actually believe there are some reasonable, rational people in Iraq.

manny:

I believe that I addressed my remarks to both sides. It's not my place (nor my job) to single out and correct every individual whom I believe is expressing him/herself inappropriately. Some self-restraint is called for here, but I do understand that people feel passionately about their belief systems - political and religious - and I try not to take the offensive remarks personally but to consider the greater context. Some people let their reason in these matters get clouded by their emotional responses to provocation. In my opinion, whether you consider it valid or not, my primary alliance is with anti-jihadists and anti-islamists; the rest, ALL OF IT, is secondary. There is only one objective as far as I'm concerned, and deviation from the accomplishment of that objective is a waste of time. There is room in my worldview for both Catherine and Keithjoy and all their various and sundry differences in ideology. To me, we are all part of the same "American Tribe" that Catherine describes, and I can tolerate dissent among the ranks, but after a certain point it becomes counter-productive. THAT is my concern - that this inherent weakness will be exploited by the other side. Muslim solidarity, at least, is virtually unassailable.

Part of who's tribe, Kemo Sabe?

manny:

I HAVE addressed others on this site whose comments I found particularly offensive. I did not single you out, believe me.

I think that decency (above) summed up my own viewpoint rather succinctly ...

You don't give a damn about freedom and democracy, all you care is your white christianity and how you manipulate your zionist plan on earth but you can not cheat muslim brothers with your man made laws.

Posted by Mahmoud at May 25, 2004 04:03 PM

You are a ridiculous little man. Brainwashed into this mode of ignorance. Stop telling us what we can and can't do, for you are powerless. Our man made laws as you call them are in place. It's odd you mention our "man made laws" you little worm, because Muslims try to maipulate them to benefit themselves on a regular basis.

Thrashing you is necessary, but I doubt it would do any good. Your Islamic state you dream of will never happen in the U.S., you bigot. So move back to the sandpit, where you'll be happy.

Time out

Do you people think I am a girl???

My name is Bartholomew Bischoff

I am a guy

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

FOR NOW ON MY POST NAME IS JUST

BART

bartb or bart:

I for one can read, and always knew that you were a "guy".

What's wrong, however, with being a "girl"? :-)

tonto:

The "American Tribe" is not comprised of one voice, nor of one mind ... but it must assume a single WILL in order to prevail.

Absolutly nothing, that is if you are one. The opposite sex is very nice. I just wanted to make sure. Some people were typing my name as barb (i.e. barbara)

bart:

That may have been done on purpose to aggravate you ... I'm afraid you took the bait!

So move back to the sandpit, where you'll be happy.

Posted by: DCWatson at May 25, 2004 04:34 PM

The only time you make me come out of my sandpit is when i see you judo-christians invading my country and killing my country men and women and children in prison and in iraqi streets. american evil can not rule Islamic World and your kufr will ultimately be replaced by Almighty Allah (swt) words and unfortunately there is no escape of that for you.

Maybe, but there were others, friendly posters who agreed with me, who made the same mistake.
On the internet it is really hard to "read" the difference between sarcasm and true belief.

Mahmoud,

Exactly how do you propose you (Arab Muslims) will defeat the United States?

Please try to give me something a little more solid that “Allah will vanquish you,” or similar rhetorical comments. I’d like to hear something a bit less faith-based and a bit more practical from you and Reza and other Islamists.

As Linda astutely pointed out, many Muslims seem to have the militant mindset of the Japanese of World War Two, but lack the military skill, centralized command, logistics, or comparable level of technology.

For example, there are only five million Jews in Israel, yet they have consistently defeated every threat thrown against them by a population of 96 million Muslims in surrounding countries.

The entire Arab league has a population of approximately 289 million. If you can’t defeat a nation that you surround on three sides that is that much smaller than you are, how do you plan to defeat a country the size of United States with 293 million citizens, especially when you can’t get close enough to it (via land or sea) to pose anything but an occasional terrorist threat?

I await what should be a very intersting response.

I thought that islam planned on taking over the U.S. by conversion?

LOL,
The more I listen to Reza, and Mahmoud certainly; I get a mental picture of some nerdy, pimple-faced 12 year olds with too much money, time and a computer, and rather detached, uninterested parents. They enjoy baiting and sniping at others and whatnot, are not interested in debate, dialog or exchange as adults would be, even radical ones! I know it sounds like one, but that isn't intended as an insult, just a thought.
I sincerely and truthfully apologise to both if I am off base here. But having lurked for quite awhile and just starting to post, that is the *impression* I get.
So, are you going to answer, open and listen? or wil you just bait, snipe and implore others to join Islam? Which I'd think is a lost cause here...

Bart:

I thought that islam planned on taking over the U.S. by conversion?

That's exactly what they think will happen in the US and Europe.

Personally, I think they'd have more luck with the military option...

Reza says:

"Don't you understand the battle is over? Islam is spreading across the entire world."

Reza sounds a lot like Tokyo Rose, just before her side lost.

lobo91

I don't think they have a reasonable chance with either plan.

Tim:

I haven't noticed much in the way of "imploring" out of them.

It's been more along the lines of Borg-style "Resistance is futile" nonsense.

Bart:

I don't think they have a reasonable chance with either plan.

I don't think "reasonable" is in their vocabulary.

Reza, Mahmoud,

1)We did invade. Sorry, Did I missunderstand all those cheering people, or are you saying you enjoyed living under Saddam's threat of invasion or rule?
2)As for the prison, wrong was done and WILL be dealt with I assure you. It may not be the beheadings your ilk seems to enjoy or espouse, but justice will be meted out. This is NOT what we stand for or endorse.
3) If that's not good enough, I suppose we could treat all of you as your 'freedom fighters' treat the rest of us. That should be okay with your 'merciful and compassionate' Allah.

That's exactly what they think will happen in the US and Europe.

If we can still use history as a guide, Islam might even succeed to some extent in parts of Europe. No, I don't see Islam becoming a primary religion in any European country, but I could see more countries emulate Spain, turning tail and allowing Islamists to set up their own Islamist enclaves with Islamic laws, set apart from the rest of the country politically, theologically, and economically. Odds are, these enclaves would have severe economic problems due to Islamist isolationism, and slums would predominate.

I see these enclaves being only temporary, though. Young Euro-Muslims will see the bright lights and big cities and move away and/or convert, in a curious parallel to what we see with very orthodox Jewish sects in the New York area.

Again using history as a guide, Islam needs state-controlled media, unforgiving theocracy and abject poverty to thrive. As bad as European socialism is, I just don’t see it happening.

NewsMax.com Wires
Tuesday, May 25, 2004
LONDON – Despite losses around the world, al-Qaida has more than 18,000 potential terrorists, and its ranks are growing because of the conflict in Iraq, a leading think tank warned Tuesday.
Al-Qaida still has a functioning leadership despite the death or capture of key figures, and estimates suggest al-Qaida operates in more than 60 nations around the world, the International Institute of Strategic Studies said in its Strategic Survey 2003-4.
The terrorist group poses a growing threat to Western interests, and attacks are likely to increase, the institute said.

By Joyce Howard Price
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published May 24, 2004

Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius has signed legislation that will allow some illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition at state colleges and universities, instead of the higher out-of-state rate.
Kansas is the eighth state to pass legislation offering tuition breaks to illegal immigrants. Gov. Sebelius, a Democrat, signed the bill

Alabama
NewsMax.com Wires
Monday, May 24, 2004
MONTGOMERY, Ala. – Bounced from office and not listed on any ballots, Alabama's "Ten Commandments judge" could nonetheless be a major player in the state's primary June 1.
Supporters of former Chief Justice Roy Moore have lined up to run for one congressional seat and all three state Supreme Court seats up for election.

Sader shot a morter at the mosque in Iraq why does not sistinia call a fatawa against him? They do this kind of thing all the time could sistania be also linked to Iran as well? he did live there too! We know UBL is in Iran!

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

LOL!
Lobo, thanks. And I believe your are right on both counts! (resistance etc) I don't think anyone WANTS an all out war...but more and more, it seems to me that the muslim mindset is seriously mistaken as to the resolve and sheer 'piss-off' factor of the aveage American slob. Another MCI or two in the US is NOT going to make us cave in...in fact the opposite! I'd be willing to bet the neutron bomb or other standard nuclear options might even be considered should the army of the uninformed attempt that strategy.

Catherine
Did you see how the number 18,000 was estimated?

They say 20,000 were trained in Osama's camps and that we have killed about 2,000 in combat.

That has to be one of the worst estimations I have ever seen. Nobody can estimate the actual numbers. Maybe they should just list the total number of muslims in the world. That would be a good estimate.

The reality is that nobody has the slightest idea how many "members" al-Qaeda has, because it's not a hierarchical organization.

If you want to start an "al-Qaeda cell," all you have to do is gather up a few of your unemployed Muslim drinking buddies, blow something up, and make a poor-quality videotape of yourself delivering a rambling, semi-coherent rant against the US and/or Israel.

The morons in the media will do the rest.

The Jihadists act pretty bravely since they have focused on killing women and children,sure it's easy to be feared in a land where violence is a virtue and most people have no way to fight back.
Here in North America we laugh at the way Muslims think we are people of opulance ,selfishness,luxury cars and sexually
provocative past times.
Sure I enjoy some pampering now and then,but just try to take away our right to relax with a coffee and donut,we have the Nuclear weapons and if the Jihadists keep up the slaughtering of children and women,I'll be the first one to fly a A-bomb into Mecca and show Islam what happens when they condone terrorism by remaining silent during attempts global domination.

New technological gains in weapons makes it possible to vaporize people with very little damage to buildings.It's gotten out of hand and
Muslims are having a real problem convincing me that Islam is a faith of peace.
Muhammed's father is Satan,not Allah,wake up North America and don't get sucked into the lies from CAIR USA or other bogus benevolant org's .

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

A couple nukes and a couple thousand sortes on mosques around the world, and this evil allah cult will be gone. Everything between now and then is just collateral damage and a waste of time. Lets roll.
Scotty

Nuclear devices while quite attention-grabbing are hardly the cutting edge of modern weaponry. Turning the desert into glass is something for those who can't read or think beyond the confines of the madrassahs and who must buy technology with their petrodollars. Real "destructive" technology these days is elegant, sophisticated and not launched from the back of a donkey cart.

keithjoy:

I notice that you refer to George W. Bush as the "Draft-Dodger-in Chief". What do you call Clinton then? At least Bush served in SOME capacity.

It appears that you people just cannot stop hurling threats and abuse. Again and again you threaten to use nuclear weapons against simple, peaceful people who suffer Western and Zionist oppression every day of their lives. Do you really believe that Muslims fear death? On the contrary, Muslims seek martyrdom in the cause of Allah (swt). It is you who tremble in fear of the rightous wrath of the brave mujihadeen.

Where will you bomb first? Marseilles? Paris? Amsterdam? Bruxels? Toronto? How about Detroit, Buffalo, or San Francisco?

As I said above, the battle is over and the West has lost. Every day, thousands of Muslims pour across your borders. Every day, more people embrace Islam. Every day, tens of thousands of Muslims are born. Every day, more mosques are built and more churches, synagogues, and pagan temples fall into disuse or are turned into public toilets.

Your grandchildren will be Muslim.

Allahu akbar

Keith Joy
I know a marine who tried to kill another marine in Iraq. A Marine was fooling around with the guys wife and he and the guys wife planed to kill him in theater well the guy through a garande at his own buddy the marine and wife are in jail now. I love a Marine but just because you were a marine does not make you a good man!!! I hope that you are but I know many who have lost their place because of stealing and cheating? to me you have to prove your self.. Go to the web sight winter soldier and come back and do your spue!! if you say you are fair then do your Homework and then we can talk. We are at war Islam wants to fly a cresant over 1600 pens. ave .
From my homework on John Kerry he will not protect America he will turn to France and they always run away!!! If you don't Like what you are then change I can't help you.

May 19, 2004
Tests Confirm Sarin in Iraqi Artillery Shell

UNSCOM inspectors preparing to destroy Iraqi rockets filled with the deadly sarin nerve agent. (AFP)
Tests on an artillery shell that blew up in Iraq on Saturday confirm that it did contain an estimated three or four liters of the deadly nerve agent sarin, Defense Department officials told Fox News Tuesday. The artillery shell was being used as an improvised roadside bomb, the U.S. military said Monday. The 155-mm shell exploded before it could be rendered inoperable, and two U.S. soldiers were treated for minor exposure to the nerve agent.
Three liters is about three-quarters of a gallon; four liters is a little more than a gallon.
"A little drop on your skin will kill you" in the binary form, said Ret. Air Force Col. Randall Larsen, founder of Homeland Security Associates. "So for those in immediate proximity, three liters is a lot," but he added that from a military standpoint, a barrage of shells with that much sarin in them would more likely be used as a weapon than one single shell.
James Taranto has more on the spin at the New York Imes and elsewhere.
Posted at May 19, 2004 08:31 AM

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight With her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

"What did W do to fight terror prior to 9-11?"

Well...He took the White house away from you...

HA!

mahmoud and reza

think about it

6 days biatch and all your bases belong to us

You ask how Muslims will conquer the United States. The answer is that conquest is unnecessary. You have turned your women into whores, many of whom must work outside the home and have no children. You kill one-third of your own children each year in the most sinful manner imaginable (abortion). Of the children whom you allow to be born, 85% in the cities and almost half elsewhere have no fathers. Your youth are turned over to homosexuals, who convert them into perverts like themselves. Homosexuals even "marry".

Do you possibly imagine that Almighty Allah (swt) will permit these abominations to continue much longer, while at the same time you oppress his believers?

Your grandchildren will be Muslim. They will marry, raise their children, and live as Allah (swt) has ordained. Your perversions will vanish from the Earth and all people will live according to Allah's (swt) divine law (Sharia).

Allahu akbar

Reza,

You say, "The battle is over and the West has lost."
Poor pathetic fool -- you will go the way of Tokyo Rose, but not without continually hurling your abuse and threats at us.

Great thread. If there is another 911, then either Mecca or Medina goes up in smoke and we effectively extinguish the symbols of Islam. The warning may have already gone out that we will not be fighting tactically but strategically if the ante gets upped. Athens could well be one of the stages followed by a US WMD deployment. I guarantee that Putin and PRC have been alerted to the idea that we will pull no punches if they fuck with us again. The problem with the Haircut is that he will wring his hands and "rejoin the community of nations" before he does anything. By that time, between CNN and the networks, we will be effectively called eunuchs in front of the world.

Delenda est...

Reza, your comment about our grandchildren being Muslims is not only a threat but an insult. Your grandchildren will be pork eating, Jewish homosexuals. It is evident to anyone who is educated that Islam is a cult, Mohammed (Pigs Be Upon Him) was a false prophet, Allah is not God or another name for God, you have a rejected the true Jesus, the Koran is full of errors and contradictions and Islam is doomed. I pity your poor dumb ass.

Reza, thank you for the summary of the priciples of Islamofascism: independent women are whores, Islam is a 'cure' for homosexuality - someone tell the queer Muslims at http://www.al-fatiha.net/ - and the animalistic brutality of Sharia will purify humanity of all individuality.

It amuses me that Islamofascists fail to realise that the present tolerance of Islamic militancy in the West is unlikely to last long enough for this 'demographic conquest' to take place.

To borrow the terminology of Edward Said, the popular view of Islam is an orientalist one; those most likely to refer to Islam as a religion of peace are those who know least about Islam.

You assume that, despite the daily atrocities carried out by Islamists, active in virtually every conflict on the planet, and proclamations such as 'all people will live according to Allah's divine law' this will not change.

Yet Muslims are massively outnumbered - generously estimated at 1.3 billion (including various forms of Islam that you would consider heretical or perverted) - not even the largest global religion. Around 80% of people are not Muslim. There are more people in China than there are Muslims on the face of the earth. It's infinitely more likely that your kind of Islam will cease to exist.

This is much more likely:

Your grandchildren will remember the Iranian theocracy being decisively liquidated by those currently struggling for freedom in Iran (soon). Your grandchildren will remember humilating defeat after defeat for Islamic militancy at the hands of Western secular democracies. Your grandchildren will remember Islamist criminals rotting away their useless, hate filled lives in prison cells. Your grandchildren will remember why Islam came to be seen with disgust and loathing - and they will spend their lives trying to repair the damage that you and your kind are doing.

Jimbabw wondering mind LOL

Mohamound Where were you when Saddamn killed over 300,000 mulsums ?? you are wrong when you think we only will only lock you up that is France we want to kill you before you can kill us!! You must have missed the 5 Iraqis on C-spand today who had their hands cut off by Saddam and to find out that saddam did this to over 1,000,000 People in Iraq but you have no problems with this because it is your law.
Well here in America people yes are kind but you do not understand your enemys we will do what we have to do and we will forgive ourselfs we are the children of the WW2 never forget this we kicked ass all over the world and we know what the threat is. Even the Libs will come around they will not fight for you in the end.

Raza you don't understand America at all we will round your kind up and no dought that Europe will as well Look at what Gremany said today? the USA and UK are doing a great job in Iraq?

Figured out who kill joy is Mike More or a want be

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Reza,

I would love to know how western civilization being western civilization means you have won.

I would also love to know where you obtain your statistics. We abort a third of pregnancies? 85% are brought up in single-family environments?

Please. Who gave you these stats? Baghdad Bob?

Allah has already had his say about your religion, my friend. He has had you live in squalor and hate for over a millenia, and constantly shamed your manhood by siding with the Jews in every war you brought against them. I thought his opinion would be abundently clear by now.

Thanks be to Allah, over at: http://www.allahpundit.com/

JIHADprints in the Sand

One night a shahid had a dream
He dreamed he was walking along the beach with Allah

Across the sky flashed scenes from his life
During each scene he saw two sets of footprints in the sand, one belonging to him and the other to Allah
However, during the last, most desperate scene, there was only one set of footprints

This troubled him and he turned to Allah and said,

“Allah! You swore that once I decided to follow you, you would never leave me. Why then, in my darkest hour, was there only one set of footprints in the sand?”

Allah smiled at him.

“Oh glorious shahid, I love you and would never leave you. During your time of trail and suffering, when you saw only on set of footprints, it was because that bomb you detonated on that bus blew your f__king feet off. It was then that I carried you. In Glad bags.”

Reza:

Something about your comments made me wonder where I had heard them before. Finally the nickel dropped and I remebered.
You sound just like the 'Borg' in the old Star Trek series!

"Surrender now. Resistance is futile. Resistance is futile,. Submit now....."
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are too much!!!Thanks Reza, I haven't laughed so much in a week!

"Submit now. Resistance is futile.."LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL!!!!!!!

The 'Borg have arrived on planet earth and Reza is their mouthpiece! WHere is Captain Kirk when you need him!

Mike

153 Jihad Verses in the Koran -- Passages in the Quran about Islamic Holy War, Compiled by Yoel Natan
www.angelfire.com/moon/yoelnatan/koranwarpassages.htm

mahmoud:

Please explain "Peterist"?

What do you mean? Is it a reference to Joan Peters, author of the classic book, "From Time Immemorial"?

Joan Peters, a CIA analyst and originally pro-Arab/Moslem, did comprehensive research on all the population statistics for "Palestine", compiled by the Ottomans and the British, for the first half of the 20th Century.

To her great surprise, she found that, apart from a handful of "effendi" Arab families in Jerusalem who'd been there for several centuries (but most of whose members DIDN'T actually reside there), the majority of "Palestinians" can trace their roots to itinerant Arab workers who flooded into the area, predominantly from Syria and Egypt, in order to obtain jobs from the burgeoning Zionist enterprises springing up there from the mid-1880s onward.

She discovered that, while there had been a steady influx of these immigrant Arab workers through the decades, the largest flow was during WWII, when the British closed their League of Nations Mandated Territory of Palestine to Jews fleeing Nazism, but turned a blind eye to the (illegal) arrival of thousands of Arabs from across the borders.

"Palestinian Nationalism"'s a brazen FRAUD, a hollow pretext for Arab and Moslem expansionism, nothing more.

Ms Peters' conclusions, based upon unimpeachably reliable figures, prove this FACT beyond any doubt.

american evil can not rule Islamic World and your kufr will ultimately be replaced by Almighty Allah (swt) words and unfortunately there is no escape of that for you.

Posted by: Mahmoud at May 25, 2004 04:57 PM

Sure Mahmoud. What time is your alarm clock set to go off to wake you from this dream? Or did you tell Reza to wake you? You two are comical.

American evil? Hmmmm........I suppose you look at us as evil like a bully punk kid would look at his parents as evil because they won't let him pull wings off of flies, or fry ants with a magnifying glass.

God, the real God, our God, tells us not to call another man a fool. Perhaps I can slip this one in because by your comments, and the fact that you call bin Laden "brother", you're not even close be being what any sensible person would consider a man.

If you fiends would've treated people kindly, and humanely, America's boot wouldn't be in your asses right now. Ever think about that?

I know that the terrorists you support and have a crush on recruit from the black community. Wait until they find out what Islam says about blacks. They'll destroy you and your heroes.

You all talk too much. Chatter is more like it. Like squirrels in a tree. Islam is losing their bid for dominance. You know why the wild animals in the jungle don't rule the planet don't you?

Because as big, strong, fast, and mean as they are, they're dumb, and can't beat a bullet.

Give that some thought, Mahmoud and Reza. You're lack of intellect, along with your 7th century mentality will spell your end.

From Mahmoud: "You are so ignorant to see the Islam will grow in the heart of the people and if 1 brother is martyred, many others are borned to replace his place. "

My response: I know how to solve that problem Mahmoud, castrate every single Muslim out there.
As for the ladies, I think it'll be merciful for them as their husbands now cannot beat them up anymore, no more testosterones.

To Reza: Wake up your bloody idea, we Americans will never bow to the Muslim nepotistic ways.
If we had our way, Bush would be on a warplane towards Fallujah now to lvl the god damned city after our troops have cleared it.

BTW, don't bother hiding in ur mosque, we'll bomb them all the same.

In another hundred years, pple will talk about Islam as a forgotten religion. WATCH THE CHRONICLES OF RODDICK, you'll understand my point!

It's really funny, the blind judo-christians invade my country for finding the weapons of mass destruction, they killed thousends of iraqi innocent people just like saddam, they used all kinds of bombs everyday on our brothers and sisters before the expiration date on their bombs are over, they steal our oil, they try to manipulate the future political scene of our country and all of this while after so many months they still couldn't find a hard evidence of those WMDs they supossed to find and show the world! While torturing our brothers and sisters on abu-ghoraib. And now i am accused why i call "Brother" Osama! Becuase he was the only one who has the guts to stand against your evil empire. What do you want from us??????? Do you really think with destroying this city or that city you will be able to reach your zionist plan? Thanx Allah (swt) we have The Holy Koran and it will reminds us how we must deal with infidels and how Almighty Allah (swt) every time crushes every civilization who rised up against Allah (swt). But you will not understand it becuase you are as more ignorant as Ancients Faraos and Roman empire which were all fell down by the will of Almighty Allah (swt).

Jihadists in describing dead terrorists (best kind) as martyrs sadly flatter themselves. Martyrdom (although it's not) won't do them a bit of good in Hell.

Muslims should realize that Mohammed (sboh), was a nut, a maniac, and that his words should be ignored.

Bob Owens-your last post was a classic, props to you.

Okay as usual Reza proves our point AGAIN (you know I just love how they prove our points for us just by rambling on and on) how Muslims don't fear death, as Muslims seek martyrdom in the cause of Allah, oh geez that's what the 9/11 terrorists were praying and saying when they led all those people to their deaths! Once again, to fight in the name of Allah and convert all those who will not convert or die. Wow I wish I could write a book about all the wonderful truths that get proven on this website all the time. But, I am a married women that chose to quit her job and stay home to raise my daughter to know and love Jesus Christ as her parents do, guess I f**k up Reza's numbers since my husband and I are both educated, hard working, parents that oh get this, follow our religion and teach our daughter to know Jesus everyday and that He does not like gays, you must be married and then have your family, be strong and independent with your own career but realize being a parent is the MOST important job you will ever have in your life and that must come before anything, even your own feelings and wants as that child is your life. I learned that becoming a mother meant putting my life on the back burner to tend to her needs and wants and that suits me just fine. I am not one of those women who wish to have it all and scarifices her children's well being in order to do so as Reza so nicely points out in his stats. Now lets understand something YET AGAIN----I AM CHRISTIAN, MY DAUGHTER IS CHRISTIAN, THEREFORE HER CHILDREN WILL BE CHRISTIAN. MY ENTIRE FAMILY BOTH SIDES, ARE CHRISTIAN, MY GRANDPARENTS ARE CHRISTIAN. I am their MOTHER and I teach them about God and the bible. In an italian family that is the way family is run, the father might be the head of the house but the mother is the one that actually gets the last word. Too bad in Arabic countries, women don't have any say, they must ask permission from their husbands to leave the house except when going to prayer or to the market in most cases and their husband is their owner. I am getting purely sick of this tired shit, the same old crap being said thread after thread after thread. I will ignore now the stupid postings as they only repeat themselves for they are nothing but cows, all following in the same herd, moo moo moo. All the same shit, the same rantings, the same threats, the same truths being proven by just opening up their mouths. Thank you, truly, thank you I love how you prove the points that we all here make and the best thing is you don't even realize you are proving them through your banter. Oh and Allah gave us Noah and brought Moses and his people out of Egypt????? Stealing from our American Bible is nothing but disgusting, how do I know this? I began, began, reading the Qu'ran and got sick to my stomach when I read about Moses. Muslims are not mentioned in the Bible nor is Allah but yet, hey, in the Qu'ran everything is mentioned that is from the Christian and Jewish religion but yet, Muslims are not to befriend the Jews and Christians. I got down on my hands and knees and prayed to Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior to teach wisdom to those who need it. You know, I had all pure intentions to keep an open mind to try and understand Islam and to be able to address issues that came up here by reading the Qu'ran and I am so sick by what I have already read that I don't even want to go any further. You say we attack Islam, the Qu'ran attacks Jewish and Christian faith on several pages. If you do not wish me to attack Islam, I do not wish to be attacked in my faith. These books are supposed to be holy and the foundation of our faiths to be respected, honored, cherished. I pray that Jesus Christ shines light on those who are in the dark and I thank HIM everyday for being my Lord and Savior. HE is a generous, loving, FORGIVING Lord that only asks that we seek HIM. We do not attain anything if we die, we go to heaven, if we kill, we go to hell it's as simple as that. Those who choose to abort their children will go straight to hell as that is murder, make no mistake, MURDER and if they know God, they will see his wrath on their judgement day. God gives us children to raise to know HIM. They are HIS precious gifts to us and those who kill those children deserve nothing but death. I do not believe in abortion under any circumstances. That goes against God's rules, Thou Shall not MURDER, one of the Ten Commandments and this should not be used as a method of birth contol as that is what it has becomelately as they are being down so rapidly everyday. At 6 weeks my baby inside of me had a heartbeat! A HEARTBEAT, SHE WAS A BREATHING, LIVING BEING WITH A HEARTBEAT. It wasn't until I became pregnant and heard my baby's heartbeat for the first time at 6 weeks that my entire view on abortion completely changed and now I am totally against it. I became a stronger Christian, more devoted as I my eyes and heart were opened as to the miracle God had given me and my husband, especailly after I was told I would never bear children ever. No doctors fixed me, I had no operations, my ovaries were damaged and that was that, but I prayed and prayed, sought HIM, cried to HIM to heal me and HE gave me peace and now, my daughter. Then again, those who don't believe in God really don't care what happens and that's their choice. Reza puts all of us who aren't Muslim in one big category as he claims we do to all Muslims but there's points he doesn't care to think about, those who don't worship any God doesn't believe in anything and therefore, does not follow the same set of rules those who follow God do, the same as radical Muslims and Muslims. If you want to be treated with respect, you need to respect those who have faith and have actually tried not to attack Islam but have pointed out things from the Qu'ran and various other books, have not attacked you with words as i've read the posts and NOT every post attacks and is vicious, and those who do do not speak for everyone. You don't want to be put in the same category as RADICAL Muslims, then don't do the same to the believers.

WW3 in the post room tonight! Figured I'd add my 2 cents.

I do wonder why we spend all this energy replying to Keith's trash talk and Reza, who writes the same nonsense in every post. Keep in mind there are millions out there in North America and Europe who either do not know or don't care about Islam, jihad, and the dhimmi.
They will listen to people far more intelligent and articulate than Reza and Keith. This is where the real battle is fought.

Be vigilant, friends.

Sorry if I sound rude or harsh but I am sick and tired of being accused of all the wrong doings of Americans, being lumped together and I'm just not going to sit and take this abuse any longer. I am going to speak my mind and stand up for what I believe in. I told myself I would not get religious on anyone but it's gotten to the point now where I have to be who I am, a PROUD CHRISTIAN. I will try not to preach and remember that not everyone believes in the same Lord God that I do but keep in mind, if I get attacked, I will fight back. All Americans are not the same, all Muslims are not the same, all Blacks are not the same, all Chinese are not the same. WE ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL.........those of us who believe in Jesus Christ believe we are created in God's image and are created equal but it's up to us to live as the way God intended us to do so. FREE WILL. So Reza, keep that in mind before you go and make comments about abortion and how Americans ruin our lives and our wives are whores. I have only been with one man, my husband and that is it. And, to top it off, my first time with him was my wedding night, just as God intended it to be. Guess I'm a whore according to Reza. You want me and others to think about what we're saying or provide proof, not attack, then you do the same. If we all were what you claimed us to be, there'd be no children, there'd be no marriages, we'd all be ladies of the night (selling our bodies for the almighty dollar) and Christianity would not exist. THANK GOD THAT IS NOT SO!

Reza, did you miss me?

Mamoud, I'm back
and I lack nothing.
It is me, the poetess of the free.

Eh Reza, eh Mamoud,
Do you fear chaos?
Do you fear your spear
will disappear into the blackness?
Do you fear the sphere of equality?
Poor men, you're the one who's missing
all the earthly delights, freely given,
all the love from the hearts flow,
and the minds merge in heavenly bliss,
that's what you miss.
Poor men,who are hollow, who are diminished
by their evil actions, their sad ignorance
draping their dark souls like a shroud. . .
Don't fear chaos, it is only the other side
of form, and we go back and forth.
So go forth,to climb that mountain,
Reza and Mamoud,
listen to me.
The poetess says,
"Oh woman, you lack nothing."

I'll ante my 2 cents also. All this comes down to one thing, the muslims follow the bastard of Abraham, the rest of us the chosen one. They have been envious for thousands of years. Enough said. God bless the Jews and their supporters.

Oh come, come,
Reza and Mamoud
it's about time
for me to throw
a fit.
Nah, that's no good,
nah, no fit.
the poetess says,
"It's in the blood."

C'mon, Mahmoud, what's this "PETERISM"?

If it is indeed an allusion to Joan Peters' book, I'd like to see you twist yourself into knots to refute her thoroughgoing statistical analysis, grounded in unimpeachable figures!

If your "Peterism"'s something else, let us know; but I recommend that you read Joan Peters' "From Time Immemorial" anyway - it'll turn your head right around - if you do retain the slightest ounce of rationality, that is.

BTW, Mahmoud, Saddam's missing WMDs are today in Syria and Lebanon.

This will soon be proven beyond any doubt, once the fascist, hegemonic heel of Damascus has been lifted (one way or another....)

On the contrary, I think Reza, Mahmoud et al. rather enjoy seeing their 'spears' disappear into each other's 'blackness'.

So this was the respect you suposed to show to iraqis? This is how you came to LIBERATE us isn't it? calling us all kinds of bad names your manilpulated christianity deserves. Please go back to your land yankees before the sword of Islam crush you in you home land. The sward of Almighty Allah (swt) has no sound when it strikes but IF it strikes, you will have no answer for it.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040525/afp/040525053254int.html
Tuesday May 25, 13:32 PM
Bombing at Christian market in Indonesia's Ambon city injures nine
AMBON, Indonesia (AFP) - A bomb injured nine people in the Christian sector of Indonesia's Ambon city and police said they were defusing two other unexploded devices.
A duty officer at police headquarters said the blast at Batumeja market at around 10:30 am -- the third in the city in three days -- sparked panic among residents and shoppers.
A nurse at Bakti Rahayu hospital said nine people were injured, three of them seriously.
City police chief Leonidas Braksan said officers were defusing bombs planted at a church office and at the tax office in the Christian sector of the divided city, which was hit by Muslim-Christian battles in recent weeks.
Police were alerted after a worker sweeping the grounds of Maranatha church and the synod office noticed a mound of freshly dug earth, the Reverend I.J.M. Hendriks told AFP.
He said members of the bomb squad found a tin containing a bomb buried at the foot of a flagpole.

They curse the Mulsum world as the Qu-ran says in 5:32 . yes you are killing the inecent which the qu-ran says you kill all mankind. Sad for you mulsums have not taught your students well even mohammod did not kill all the Jews in Midena only one tribe he let the other two go he was afraid of the God of Abraham and Issic and Jacob he knew the truth and this is why 5 arab nation that attacked Israel lost and ran away!!!!
Now you send Mulsums to kill other Mulsums in Iraq I heard the Man on c-span today. I think that is a double wammy and remember in your qu-ran 5:32 and those who save a life is if they save all mankind. Well the USA and those who fought with her saved many lifes in IRAQ and now you send monsters to kill the Iraqi people for your sick dream. The Iraqi people will have the abitiay to feed most of the Arab world and you try to kill them what does your rock say about that. Live in Peace or die!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strenght and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

The kind of respect you showed to Arab world in abu-ghoraib will remain in the mind of Muslim brothers and sister for generations and generations and you can not wash your bloody hands of it. Not with 1000 "sorry guys, i messed it up" excuse.

Mahmoud, you ignorant, camel urine-drinking piece of shi-ite, the Egyptian civilization fell because Moses led the JEWS out of it, as YHWH commanded him to do. Pharoah's army was wiped out and Egypt has never regained its' glory since. The Roman empire crumbled because of its' own decadence, worshipping false gods and the rise of Christianity. Your stupidity is as laughable as your blind allegiance to the cult of Mohammed (Pigs Be Upon Him) and your childish command of our language.

If there is such an attack on US soil - and I fervently wish it will NOT happen! - I hope that the whitewash of Islam will not continue. I hope that government authorities throw off its Political Correctness handcuffs and gag and calls Islam to task. That's the only way to prevent further attacks from happening. It is an insult to the victims to keep avoiding the real issue. This is Islam's war on the West. They hate us for who we are, as their War Manual tells them to countless times. Denying this, and blaming political policy, Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, and whatever other perceived grievances (and many Muslims seem to be wallowing in them) is ensuring more and more will die and suffer.

If an attack does occur, I hope the first thing Bush says isn't "Oh, Islam is a Religion of Peace." Look where that's gotten us the last 3 years! We need to get real.

Radioactive Missiles Found In Iraq
Charles R. Smith
Tuesday, Mar. 9, 2004
U.S. Army troops operating at a former Iraqi air base recently made a startling discovery: Russian made missiles marked with radioactive warning signs.
Army bomb disposal troops confirmed using Geiger counters that the missiles are indeed radioactive.
The discovery is not, however, considered the long sought after "smoking gun" of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

May 19, 2004
Tests Confirm Sarin in Iraqi Artillery Shell

UNSCOM inspectors preparing to destroy Iraqi rockets filled with the deadly sarin nerve agent. (AFP)
Tests on an artillery shell that blew up in Iraq on Saturday confirm that it did contain an estimated three or four liters of the deadly nerve agent sarin, Defense Department officials told Fox News Tuesday. The artillery shell was being used as an improvised roadside bomb, the U.S. military said Monday. The 155-mm shell exploded before it could be rendered inoperable, and two U.S. soldiers were treated for minor exposure to the nerve agent.

Guess mohammod has not been keeping up on currant events?
Been in a cave or something?
He also wont talk about why the arab[mulsum] world sat back while saddam killed over 1,000,000 mulsums? and buchered other mulsums in Iraq?
We are Waiting???

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

Part of the American Tribe....

This is EXACTLY why i think the infidels will never understand the Holy Book of Koran: "The American Tribe" who logically must be consisted of red indian tribes living in peace across the merican continent to have the chance to be respresented by Islam, is transfered to a collection of states who are made by actually exterminating the poor indians brutally and making towers of their sculls, run by a bunch of christian yankees who thinks they can do the same genocide in middle east with Muslim brotherhood. No guy! becuase we are weaponed by Holy Koran you will not be succeed here.

2 points:

1). The Native americans did not live in peace, but were often at war with each other fo the 14,000 years they were here BEFORE Mohammed was born.

2). We never made towers of skulls of our enemies, at least as policy. To find out who did, look in the encyclopedia under "Pol Pot" or "Cambodia" or "what Saddam did before breakfast."

The sward of Almighty Allah (swt) has no sound when it strikes but IF it strikes, you will have no answer for it.

Posted by: Mahmoud at May 25, 2004 11:34 PM

This is a perfect example why Islam is viewed by the masses as a death cult instead of a religion. A machete isn't a sword. Any higher spirit that wills its puppets to murder in his name is no God.

Mahmoud, every time people like you or Reza or some of the others that represent the brainwashed Muslim sect type what you type, you drive our point home.

In case you haven't noticed, Dhimmis on this site are few and far between. Your words don't intimidate us, they only solidify our belief that jihadists and their supporters either need to reform, or they remain a problem, and are to be eliminated.

Make no mistake, and have no illusions, you will lose. The radical, perverted version of Islam will be demolished. If Allah protected you, you wouldn't be so angry, like most Muslims that I see and hear appear to be. If Allah protected you, thousands of Muslims would still be alive today.

Lying, raping, stealing, and killing is no way to go through life.

Millions of people in the West have tried to understand what makes all of you tick. It's at the point now that radical Islam is a threat and needs to be squashed. No more talk, no more trying to reason. Radicals in the Islamic world wanted war, and war they got.

Stop blaming Christians, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists fo your troubles, and look in the mirror for the source of the Islamic malfunction.

Mahmoud, do you really believe the coalition is trying to commit genocide in Iraq, or are you just being melodramatic? I can assure you that if we were trying to commit genocide, there would be no coalition troops in Iraq, because there would be no Iraq left. It would be just a memory.

very well spoken, D.C.

Mahmoud:

What sword of islam? First of all, there is not a single muslim country that is capable of creating modern weapons. The muslim world is too primitive to create modern technology. You can only import weapons from more technologically advanced countries. The only power that the muslim world has is through its oil deposits. When these run dry, and when the world finally switches over to non-polluting alternative energy sources the muslim world will sink back into the sand, unless it reforms itself from within.

Was it the 'sword of islam' that, in your mind, struck the Twin Towers on 9-11? If you believe this then why are you surprised that we in the West see you as a mad dog who needs to be put down? You are taking your religion down a dangerous road, leading to an apocalyptic end. Your way of life is so empty and frustrated that the only answer you can come up with is your islamic fantasy world. You are playing with fire and are courting disaster. In your mind the West, the 'Dar-al-Harb', is the fallen, decadent evil place that you must convert to islam. If the West won't submit to the Dar-al-Islam then it must be destroyed.... You and Adolf Hitler have a lot in common. There may well be a terrorist attack here in the USA sometime this year. If this happens you will be surprised by our reaction. So far we have only exerted our military force with great reluctance and under great restraint. You may cheer and be happy if there is another 9-11, but your laughter will ring hollow when you stand before the throne of God and see your folly exposed.

Mike

Mohammad we don't want your countrys we don't like them if we the USA does not sell you grains. What half your people will starve well we can use our grains for our cars can you eat your oil?

We call it if you stay in your sand box we will leave you alone, but you have to stay in your sand box!!! And once again you prove to not know American history Our tribes love America and have proved so in WW2 we would have taken longer to win if not for them!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

On and on it goes, the same overt and covert messages sounding throughout:

Islam will conquer you. You will bend to our will. All who stand against us, or who think different thoughts, are infidels, and must die…

Mr. Owens,
Not all infidels must die, the zionists are trying to lie to christians and jews like this. There is always a Dhimmi process in awaiting for learning more about Islam and embrace it in peace. The only wall the non-Muslims must break down is to listen to true words of Holy Koran as same as many Americans and all people from other countries are doing and that is why Islam is so powerfull. Becuase there are many who embrace every year even in most farest places on earth and this shakes the curropted pillars of zionists who knows if people embrace Islam they will not listen to them anymore so they come up with spreading false hate about Islam. The Dhimmis have all the rights to think about embracing Allah (swt) words.

But we don't WANT to be told we should listen to a foreign religion. That is what is menat by teh concept of freedom of religion in US law. You are free to practice your religion as long as it doesn't infrindge on my rights. The moment your religion strts infringing on mine, we have a problem.

Jews and Christians do not want to be subjected to Muslim rule, any more than Muslims want to be subjected to Christian rule.

Why is that basic truth so hard for you to understand?

Mahmoud, Islam is losing, it's fading into the darkness of history. You can try to swim against the tide of modernity, but eventually it will sweep you away. People are leaving Islam every day, in the West, in Africa, and elsewhere. Forcing people to become Muslims won't work forever, Mahmoud, because we live in the age of mass media, and the truth about Islam is coming out at last, and it's very, very ugly. Give up, Mahmoud, you've lost. Your grandchildren will wear short skirts and dance to Western music.

Mr. Owens:

Permit me to respond to your two points (in reverse order).

2. The most famous builder of pyramids of human skulls was Ghingis Khan. This is what he did when the Mongol hordes swept across the Muslim lands in their path. The Mongols were eventually repelled by the Egyptian army (actually Arabs by that time). The eventual fate of the Mongols? They embraced Islam and carried the faith with them back to the East.

1. It has been well established that Muslim seafarers reached the Americas long before the Europeans did so. It is also known that Muslims intermarried with the women of several Native American tribes, particularly the Senneca. Many Native Americans were in fact Muslims. Their heritage is preserved to this day in their language and in some place names. Islam was also established in other places in North America and in South America and the Carribean. The Western Hemisphere is in fact Muslim land.

Allahu akbar

Mohammad we don't have to spread anything you tell the story so well and all those who are being killed by mulsums are also a good story teller and we are still waiting for you mulsums to say that is not your way to cut peoples heads off???

The Iraqi People are waiting for you to say sorry for your silence!!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces give the Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

IF "American tribe" means literally slaughtering all red indian tribes and castrating their children, If the population of a civilization is living in an usurpationed land with their hands dirty in exterminating red indians while enslaving africans for many centuries while sucking the land resources of both africa and ancient american continent,such a savage civilization will lead to only one thing: Kufr. But as I told you, Thanx to Almighty Allah (swt) your demonic sorcery has no power to Muslim brothers and sisters becuase Holy Koran warned us enough about the infidels and we know all about your kufr and ignorance. You have eyes but don't see, you have ears but you don't hear, your mouth moves but you can't talk. The only way out of this material daze is to embrace islam and live in peace with us. beeing a Dhimmi is not a bad thing.

Why is it that I have the feeling that in the closing days of the Roman Empire there were Romans sitting around the warm baths and talking about how the barbarians had no chance in the modern age.

Without the heart to fight and no philosophy to inspire them they simply disintegrated before a power that the old Roman Republic would have annihilated in a week.

If you really want to lose sleep read Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".

Muhomed, peace be to the people he slaughtered,
is not exactly a good roll model.

Terror suspect responsible for attacks in China killed (AP)

25 May 2004

ISLAMABAD - President Pervez Musharraf said yesterday that a top terror suspect responsible for several attacks in China has been killed by Pakistani security forces in the northwestern tribal region.
"He was one of the most wanted terrorists in China. He was killed here," Gen. Musharraf told a televised gathering of students in Islamabad.
President Musharraf did not identify the suspected terrorist or say precisely when or where he was killed.

Dose not sound like a winning team to me????

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give the Strength and Courage to stay the course to stay the course to Victory Amen

Mahmoud, I hate to spoil your little fantasy, but we don't use sorcery. We use technology, which is usually a lot more effective than sorcery. I know it might be difficult for you to understand the difference, but please try.

Mahmoud:

"Once political identity is accepted as belief in an absolute moral imperative, and once morality itself is seen as a striving for perfection towards an unrealizable goal, then no aspect of conduct is in principle outside the purview of the political organization of the state."

By Kanan Makiya
From the "Republic of Fear"
On the philosophical underpinnings of the Baath Socialist movement

Mahmoud, understanding that you are an expression of the description above, and that many others have fallen for the same philosophy, is something that is beyond your comprehension. Hopefully, your children's children will be able to understand, once their parent's parent's misguided beliefs are exposed as the dust that they are, as have those who, for all time, gone before you.

"It has been well established that Muslim seafarers reached the Americas long before the Europeans did so. It is also known that Muslims intermarried with the women of several Native American tribes, particularly the Senneca. Many Native Americans were in fact Muslims. Their heritage is preserved to this day in their language and in some place names. Islam was also established in other places in North America and in South America and the Carribean. The Western Hemisphere is in fact Muslim land."

This is more of the same confabulating that we hear from modern Islamofascists. There is not one shred of evidence thereto. Or quote all your scholarly sources for the same. Ever heard of a footnote? The hubris is laughable were it not so pathetic.

Mahmoud, stop pretending to care about 'red indian tribes', when your Muslim brothers are happily slaughtering and enslaving native Sudanese at this very moment. Is that the best you can do, little man?

Killshot:

Simply run a Google search on "muslim native american". You will retrieve 306,000 "hits". The very first one contains lots of proof. Many Native Americans had Arabic names until well into the 19th Century. Note also the translation of "Tallahassee".

All I want is Yankees out of my Muslim country. Go and do whatever you want in your deserted continent. I am sure Almighty Allah (swt) will send a larg tornado or an earthquake or something like that as he did to sodom. Please leave Iraq with its misery.
No one invited you to liberate us and now there is no wmd, what else do u want? The only problem you have is that you didn't find larg stocks of wmd that ahmad chalabi was promising to you but that's not a big embarresment. Remember to double check your top secret agents before you start a war again! shame after shame in the pages of your history who is written from the begining by killing the native people of the land you own now and it's amazing you all silince about it and just how long do you think Almighty Allah (swt) will let you swim in the swamp of your kurf?

Wow, the freakshow has really arrived. We have demons, sorcery, and Red Indians who are really Muslims. What about Mars, did Mohammed fly there on a magic carpet and build a tent or something?

amrican soldiers are very happy that handover is near. most of the american soldiers i talked about they like to go back home by their family.

GO And Get A Clue!

They want peace more than any others. If many of them vote to Kery to go home finally you can talk about peace with a country and a world you invaded like a gang of thugs. Iraq is the crossroad of civilizations wih hundreds areas divided to several foreign invasions. The Iraqis will always survive and these are the big opressors who always faded away by the will of Almighty Allah (swt)

Here is one very short article (1/2 page) that contains enough evidence to convince most people that many Native Americans were Muslims, and that Islam reached the Western Hemisphere long before Columbus. The Google search I suggested above will get much more information, including accounts of 12th Century Chinese documents proving that Muslim Arabs had long been in the Americas.

http://islamworld.net/rim.html

The true "freakshow" is provided by those who know nothing of the history of their own country.

Allahu akbar

Too late Mahmoud, you've already said that 'being a dhimmi is not a bad thing', so 'All I want is Yankees out of my Muslim country' is clearly just a lie. You're quite happy for Muslims to kill native Africans and Jews and 'infidels', but you don't like it when someone kicks back. Get used to it.

You're quite happy for Muslims to kill native Africans and Jews and 'infidels'

Please stop working (free) for zionists by spreading their handycapped lies about Islam. As I told you, The Dhimmis are always safe with Muslim brothers and sisters. The fate of the Yankees out of Iraq is part of the world domination of Islam by the power of Almighty Allah (swt).

Mahmoud:

You say it's "not a bad thing to be a Dhimmi under Islam?!?" Ask that of my Slavic, Magyar, Greek, Austrian and Albanian ancestors who didn't want to be Muslim!!! Why did we have to mutilate our children or flee into the mountains during the time your thrice-accursed Ottoman Turks ruled South-Eastern Europe in the name of your EVIL FALSE "PROPHET"?

Because otherwise you'd take our sons and convert them into Janissaries to be turned against their own people - a form of GENOCIDE!!!!

Repent and renounce your "Islam" or - even if in this life you be OK - you'll go to Hell and thence to the Lake of Fire!!!

With such a false religion as yours, I won't hesitate to say: DEATH TO IT!!!!

Mahmoud, I hate to spoil your little fantasy, but...


Posted by: Natalie at May 26, 2004 12:46 AM

Well don't you think with more than 2 posts directed to me you are trying to spoil my fantasy more and more?
Just how do i have to supose to believe an american promise? It's the same problem we have in Iraq everyday with people like you who forget their promises.

Mahmoud, stop working (free) for Al Qaeda by spreading their malicious lies about Zionists. As I told you, Muslims are always safe in liberal Western democracies. The fate of the jihadis in Iraq is sealed. By the power of the US Marine Corp, they will be sent into the void. Thank you and good night. :-)

And as the infidels goes to sleep Almighty Allah (swt) is always present and you can not refuse the voice of Islam. Even if you pretend here you all reject Islam, in your minds and in front of the miror, you fear Islam that is why you come up with all this redicolous ideas about your free will to reject Almighty Allah (swt) words. May Allah (swt) shed the lights of Islam in your brain so you can embrace Islam and we all can live in peace together.

I don't fear Islam, I hate it as the Devil's false religion as predicted in the Bible's Book of Revelation (the first of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse).

I'll go further and say that I also hate Islam for what Muslims did to my ancestral peoples in its name; particularly after seeing how it not only condones but encourages - nay, COMMANDS of its adherents to do to the rest of us what was done to my forefathers (and I actually did study it and its "civilisation" in high-school, complete with reading the Koran, so I know what I'm talking about)!!!

2 points:
1). The Native americans did not live in peace, but were often at war with each other fo the 14,000 years they were here BEFORE Mohammed was born.

So is this your answer to native indian genocide? they were barbars and white christians "educate" them? or "liberate" them too? Did you know hitler's concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in South Africa and for the Indians in the wild west; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination - by starvation and uneven combat - of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity. Did you study all american history and came to a conclusion that americans actually "were borned" on their homeland and there is no any native american genocide?

2). We never made towers of skulls of our enemies, at least as policy. To find out who did, look in the encyclopedia under "Pol Pot" or "Cambodia" or "what Saddam did before breakfast."

Thank you for showing the hypocracy by adding "...at least as policy" to your roadmap. Passing the legislations that indicated their hostility toward the native indians never happened in american history. I am making all of this up. many people in this board seems unaware of their own history

Posted by: Bob Owens at May 26, 2004 12:08 AM

ah mohomed, aka the profit,
a thug and murderer,
saying God spoke through him,
and would never again speak
to a human being.
Obviously a nutter.

Reza and Mahmoud,
You really should start to look at other sources for your information.
Your being fed incorrect history, which is, to be honest with you, doing you no good service.
Myself, I would seriously start to question why my leaders, both polictically and religously, have to twist what is true history?
Could it be so you will always follow blindly?
Or maybe to stop the populace from having independent thought, which would lesson the hold they have over you?

"Textbook on Arabs removes blunder"
www.washingtontimes.com/functions/StoryID+20040416-120208-4455r
By George Archibbald
04/16-2004
An Indian tribe has forced distributors of an Arab studies guide for U.S. teachers to remove an inaccurate passage that says Muslim explorers preceded Christoper Columbus to North America and became Algonquin chiefs.
Peter DiGangi, director of Canada's Algonquin Nations Secretariat in Quebec called claims in the book, the "arab World Studies Notebook", "preposterous" and "outlandish", saying nothing in the tribe's written or oral history support them.
The 540-page book says the Muslim explores married into the Algonquin tribe, resulting in 17th-century tribal chiefs named Abdul-Rahim and Abdallah Ibn Malik.
Mr. Digangi said the guides auther and editor, Audrey Shabbas, and the Middle East Policy Council (MEPC), a Washington advocacy group that promoted the curriculum to school districts in 155 U.S. cities, have been unresponsive to his concerns since November.
But Ms. Shabbas said this week the passage was remove immediately from the subsequent copies and that she was "giving careful and thoughtful attention " on how to notify the 1,200 teachers who have been given copies of the book in the last 5 years.
"As the editor of the Notebook", when I heard from Mr. Digangi that a citation in the work was not borne out by either Native American written records or by oral traditions, I was grateful that the statement could be so easily removed", she said.
She did not explain how the false information got into the curriculum.
"There is no (Scholarly) peer review," said Mr. DiGangi, who says he was never contacted after lodging his complaint. "It was so outlandis. It should have never gone to press".
Jon Roth, MEPC's program manager, yesterday said the group has decided to remove the two-page chapter called "Early Muslim Exploration Worldwide:Evidence of Muslims in the New World Before Columbus."
"It is not, nor has it ever been to spread lies or untruths", Mr. Roth said.
Meanwhile the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation this week issued a report that is critical of "Arab World Studies Notebook".
The study, titled "The Stealth Curriculum:Manipulating America's History Teachers," reviewed many curriculum supplements and "professional development" programs aimed at schoolteachers.
"It appeared that the creation and dissemination of these materials, often through professional developement institutes and (teacher) in-service programs, had fallen into the eager hands of interest groups and ideoloques yearning to use America's public school classrooms to shape the minds of tomorrows citizens by manipulating what todays teachers are intriducing into the lessons of todays children".
Mr. Roth said the "Arab World Studies Notebook" is the primary reference text used in the council's program of teacher workshops conducted by Ms. Shabbas, which have numbered more than 268 in 155 cities since 1987.
The report, written by Sandra Stotsky, former senior associate commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Education, described the "Arab World Studies Notebook" as "propganda".
The chapter written by Ms. Shabbas and Abdullah Hakim Quick claims that Muslims from Europe were the first to sail across the Atlantic and land in the New World, starting in 889, the report says.
"The idea that English exploreers met native Indian chiefs with Muslim names in the middle of the Northeast woodlands sounds almost like something a hollywood film writer dreamed up for a spoof:, the report says.
The current 1998 edition of the Notebook has "no evidence or documentation to support key historical "facts" that serve to advance their political views or religious beliefs:, the report says.
"One can only wonder if this has ever been questioned by the teachers who use its materials, or if they feel they must agree to any claim made by Muslims as an "alternative perspective" or risk being labeled insensitive, Eurocentric or racist.

Also, try looking at www. nativeamericans.com
all the tribes are listed there, and there is no mention of Muslim Native Indians anywhere.

Erik the Red was actually the first person to land in the new world, history has proven that.

But, read the article very carefully......
Ms. Shabbas was the editor, she co-wrote the chapter, but states, she doesn't know how this got in there.
They never checked to see if this was true or not.

So, again Reza and Mahmoud, I would seriously question why my own people are distorting the truth.

If "they" hit us with a mass casualty attack, via WMD for instance, I know we have a few nukes with Damascus and Tehran written on them...

Susan B

Read the same thing and also went to the website reza mentioned.

In that artical they mention two treaties that where signed.
1. Peace and Friendship treaty of Delaware of 1778 I could not find anything sighned in that year by native americans.
2. Moors Sundry Act of 1790 of South Carolina. The closes thing I could find here was The Moors Foundry Act of 1802. Which entiltled a Foundry to be built on Gov land. Not even in SC but NC.

These are the places I went looking for them. Westlaw, SC Law Library, and The National Indian Law Library.

Just thought I would put my 2C in.

Thanks JJ,

Reza and Mahmoud,
Once again your history is a quite a bit off,
I suggest you go to:
www.allempires.com/empires/mongol1.htm
to get a true history of the Mongols.
Ghingis Khan was NEVER beaten back by the Arabs, and he dies a very old man, the empire was succeeding down through sveral generations and it also show the maps of the Mongol Empire.
You really need to check your facts a little, I mean after all, even a "Western Whore" can get my facts a little straighter than you can, so where does that leave you, dipshit?

They've made up the same sort of "history" about Australia being discovered by Muslims, preceding Capt Cook. This according to the deluded Sheikh Hilaly here, the honorary imam of the Muslims of Oz. The same guy who endorsed violent jihad in a speech he made overseas, but has been busy back pedalling and whitewashing what he said ever since, as it was quite embarrassing for him letting the truth out like that.

We all know that Muslims believe that once a land has been Muslim in the past, it's always Muslim, thereby giving them the excuse to start making claims and demands. And many in the stupid leftie fringe eagerly go along with this bastardization of history because it's the trendy thing to do. They get a free dig at the nasty white oppressor. Muslims are anxious to grasp onto these "facts" because they desperately need something to feel good about, given the sorry state Muslim countries are in & the hell they cause on earth for everyone, including their own.

Taranis,
You are so correct.
I sometimes feel sorry for the posters that repeat this incorrect garbage.
There obviously is a brain there, they know how to work a computer, but they can't think outside the propaganda they've been force fed their whole lives.
Thats whats really destroying them and they can't see it, no matter what truth you put before them, they can't get outside of the propaganda box.
I guess its easier to deny and blame than it is to actually reform.

Yes, Susan B, the "thinking" mechanism is what's missing. From what I gather, thinking in Islam is verboten. Questioning, doubting, thinking, the natural processes of those with a brain, is not allowed. For to do so, would enlighten you to the lies and manipulations of a warlord, who years ago figured out that creating a religion would help him in his pan arabic expansionism, his quest for power, his need to steal the wealth others worked for, his need for lots of sexual gratification.

You just mindlessly follow the war manual he created. Don't think, don't question, don't debate. Just follow. Like mindless drones. It was very successful, as we see. Unfortunately. But as the world moved on, progressed, civilised, enhanced, created, grew, Islam stagnated and rotted, and its people have become bitter and hateful. Needing to blame someone. So their ineffectual, corrupt, evil leaders point their fingers at the West. Blame the West! They're at fault for the fact that your lives aren't glorious and wonderful. Look there, at the West, not at yourselves. And certainly don't look at the leaders of these failed Islamic societies. No, don't look there. The sign of an immature culture. One that hasn't grown up. You can never grow up if you won't think. Debate. Question.

And they pathetically go on about how "superior" their culture is. How wonderful life under Islam would be. If it's so wonderful, then why isn't Saudi Arabia crammed to the rafters with all the Muslims of the world? Why don't all the Muslim "refugees" flee to Saudi Arabia? Why isn't Saudi Arabia a fantastic place to live for all people, not just its corrupt lazy royalty? Why are the most successful societies on earth Western ones? Why are most economic basketcases of the world Islamic ones? And Saudis need Western technology and workforce to extract the oil it's been blessed with. Only 6% of its workforce is Saudi, the rest has to be imported. Why? Don't question those things Muslims, just blame the West. ROTFLMAO! Islam superior, my ass! It's a pathetic joke.

Taranis,
Here is a list of some other sites you may want to take a look at:
www.khilafah.com
www.khalifornia.org
www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org
www.almuhajiroun.com
www.msa-natl.org/national/
www.ramadhan.org

It's just amazing the lies that are put out on these sites, especially khilafah.com.

I think all Muslim texts should be pulled out of our schools immediately, if they can't print correct history, it doesn't need to be in our schools.
In Australia, are these textbooks in the schools there?

Susan B,

This took alot more looking for than reading to understand. That artical that reza pointed out is actually a peice from a book called "The Melungeons: The Resurrection of a Proud People" by N. Brent Kennedy. The book basically tries to explain away, why native americans have brown skin. Through muslims that landed in Tennesseans of course. They don't say why full blooded native americans can't grow beards thougth. The mullahs must be outraged.

America is free because of the "Right to keep and Bear Arms". Islam will fail in America for the same reason. The right to self preservasion supercedes the Muslim Martyrdom.

Mahmoud, you are like an ignorant child who refuses to believe the truth and clings to his infantile fantasies. If you and your beliefs were not so pathetic you would be laughable. Every time you open your mouth everyone here can see what a fool you are. You must truly be a moron to believe the drivel your masters fill you with. Sad, very sad. Islam has failed to produce anything of value because it is a false religion with a false prophet and a false god. Show us one prophecy in the Koran. No prophecy = no prophet!!! You say Mohammed is like Moses. He is not. Moses was a Jew. Mohammed was not a Jew. Moses and all the Jews were circumcised in accordance with the covenant God gave Abraham. Mohammed and his followers were not circumcised. Moses spoke directly to God. Mohammed never spoke directly with God. Moses was educated and could read and write. Mohammed was illiterate. the first commandment God gave Moses was "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." In addition to Allah, Mohammed and the first Muslims worshipped three female deities for a time until Mohammed decided he had been deceived. Was Moses ever deceived? Did Moses ever worship false gods, especially female gods? I pray you will wake up before it is too late.

It is very interesting how Muslims pretty much did everything in history, and we ignorant westerners have found no proof of it. I'm just waiting to hear how Islamic Arabs cured cancer while putting a man on the moon. A neat trick since they'e still having problems with indoor plumbing.

One question still remains: If Arabic Islam is so powerful, why is is constantly getting spanked by a tiny Jewish state it outnumbers 47-1?

Wait, I know. All part of a Zionist conspiracy...

Yes Just Keep ignoring the facts that you slaughter native indians to get their land. Don't try to apologize to the history, you white proud christians! after exterminating red indians and black africans you think now it's time to rip off the middle east, which is your terrible mistake. Untill americans are not so brave to answer the dogmas in their own history and untill the americans are not so brave to look at the facts of genocide in their country, why should any Muslim be obligated to answer your questions?

Bob, I also find it interesting that Islam has contributed nothing to aviation, aeronautics, biology, chemistry, transportation, communication, space exploration (oh, that's right, the Koran says the Moon used to be a sun. Riiiggghhhttt.) or any of the modern advancements we appreciate... TV, radio, microwaves, freeze dried coffee, Tang, coke, weaponry (even the RPG's and Ak47's they're so fond of were made by communist athiests) air conditioners, blue jeans, computers, toilet paper, Kotex, pizza, mini bagles, ham sandwiches, and not ONE damn thing of use by a Muslim. Where are their Einsteins, their Fermis, their Curies, their Marconis, their Edisons, Franklins, Salks, George Washington Carvers, etc., etc.,? Not to mention the complete lack of any good commedians.

Mahmoud, you silly little girl, get real. If we wanted the oil we would just nuke Mecca and Medina and take it. We found the oil, built the wells and refineries and transportation systems and then let the Saudis nationalize it in the 60's. Not our fault they screwed their people so they could have palaces with gold plated toilets. If you don't like us or the way we run our country, kiss my red white and blue ass. America isn't perfect, but it still beats the hell out of the third world piece of shit nations the Muslims have created.

why should any Muslim be obligated to answer your questions?

Posted by: Mahmoud at May 26, 2004 08:12 AM

You foolish beings have much to answer for. Although we know most of what comes out of your mouthes is a lie, we still want answers. By the way, we don't consider you obligated to live anywhere but in the hellhole Middle East.

Once a beautiful part of the world, now war-torn because of insane Islamists that think they're above all laws but sharia, and are brainwashed into thinking that they, as muslims should be the only being permitted to inhabit the planet.

They have certain words for people like you, clean words, and not so clean words. I'm sure the not so clean words come to your limited minds quite easily.

The cleaner words for you are racists, bigots, and intolerants. These descriptions, true and proven, are the appropriate label for Islamists. For that, they will be early for their appointment to meet Allah.

Morning DC. I love the smell of cyber-ink in the morning, don't you? ;-)

Aren't the claims about Muslims discovering America just the latest example of Muslim taqiyya?
Here's an interesting paragraph from the article that was posted a few days ago about taqiyya. I think the author accurately describes Reza, Mahmoud and other Muslim apologists.Note the authors comments about elementary and childish thinking and a lack of logic or reasoning that's typical of Muslim apologists.

__________________________________

This insight elucidates many things which those who deal with Muslims on a regular basis can readily observe. It explains why Muslim apologetic defense of Islam is so often very elementary, even childish, in its presentation, and often quickly breaks down into name-calling against the infidel who has refuted Islamic arguments. It enlightens us as to why Muslims will loudly trumpet the "logic" and "rationality" of Islam while simultaneously defending their faith with circular reasoning and other errors of logic.

America isn't perfect

So you are finally admit you slaughtered all native indians?

They have to support their position. To do otherwise would make them outcasts in their tribes and families at best, to renounce Islam would get them killed at worst. They know the sun doesn't set in a muddy well or that the moon was never a sun, but they can't admit it publicly, they have to keep living the lie to keep up appearances. They know Islam has contributed nothing to modern society, and every time they use a computer, drive a car, turn on a light, watch TV, or nuke their pizza it is a declaration of the failure of their culture to provide anything of substance or worth. That's why illiteracy is so rampant in Islamic nations. If they were educated, they'd all know what a lie their religion is. Keep 'em stupid, and they're happy. Just blame all everything that's wrong in their world on the infidels. Give 'em a common enemy to keep 'em from seeing that the real enemy is Islam. No wonder they're crazy.

I willingly and freely admit that Islam has slaughtered many more than America has or ever will, after all you have a 1200 year head start on us. We don't kill our women if they're raped to protect the family honor. And we don't have a book of lies written by a madman commanding us to wage jihad.

Our religious brothers and sisters in native america realized the real truth of Islam and they want to embrace to be gracefull under the will of Almighty Allah(swt), and you come up with all pathetic stories trying to alter the history becuase you don't understand why native americans love to embrace the most largest religion on earth, while american soldiers in Iraq are waiting for john kerry to get elected so they finally can go home safely. try to get a clue

Yes Hal my friend.....it's like fresh cut grass on a golf course. Mahmoud, aren't you late for prayer?

No Muslim on earth should ever bring up the subject of "slaughter"........For they are the machete wielding nuts performing this dirty deed over in Nigeria and elsewhere.

You must be drinking camel piss like your ancestors. I'm part Indian and any native American would spit in your face if you try to peddle that camel dung here. Muslims as Indians, that's rich, LOL! But I guess if you're stupid enough to believe the lies of the koran, you'll believe anything your slave owners tell you.

mahmoud:

"So you are finally admit you slaughtered all native indians?

Posted by: Mahmoud at May 26, 2004 08:57 AM"

Obviously, if they had all been slaughtered, there wouldn't be any left.

Native Americans are proud and protective of their heritage and are not about to embrace Islam. Plus, they run some of the largest and most lucrative casinos in the country outside of Vegas and Atlantic city. In one small tribe in my area, each individual member gets a check for one million dollars a year. The more children they have, the more cash rolls in. These people are not about to trade that for [yuck] Islamic subjugation.

Sorry I am late for my prayers now.
the obvious has been proven again: untill the infidels don't open their inner mind, they will ignorantly deny Islam.
Ask your questions from me next time.

Mahmoud, why should we ask questions we know you aren't smart enough or honest enough to answer? I make a statement about Moses, Mohammed or the errors in the Koran and you try to change the subject to the American Indian. You refuse to debate and run like a scared little girl who is about to wet her panties. You have proven nothing except Islam is a failure that can only produce liars and losers like you.

Sorry I am late for my prayers now.
the obvious has been proven again: untill the infidels don't open their inner mind, they will ignorantly deny Islam.
Ask your questions from me next time.

Posted by: Mahmoud at May 26, 2004 09:35 AM

Mahmoud, we don't "ignorantly" deny Islam, we deny Islam with sheer brilliance.

That's right Mahmoud, be a good little robot and run back to your pathetic little 7th century fantasy world. And have fun with your genocide in Sudan.

keithjoy:

I'd like to see your vituperative onslaughts aimed at Reza and Mahmoud, and other Islamists that post here.

Why can't they be the beneficiaries of your witty repartee?

Mahmoud, we don't "ignorantly" deny Islam, we deny Islam with sheer brilliance.

Well said, DC.

Reza and Mahmoud,

I’ll take just two of your Islamic lies, and prove them wrong with indisputable scientific facts.

You (Reza) state ”It has been well established that Muslim seafarers reached the Americas long before the Europeans did so. It is also known that Muslims intermarried with the women of several Native American tribes, particularly the Senneca[sic].”

While Columbus Day is still celebrated, it is now widely accepted that Leif Ericsson landed in North America and established a short-lived colony in what is now Nova Scotia about 1000 AD, 492 years before Columbus. These are established facts, and even your Islamist scholars do not try to refute these actors and times. So any Muslim landing most have taken place before 1000 AD.

For any sailor to reach North America, they would have to make a transatlantic crossing. Ericsson succeeded, in part, because he was able to “island hop” relatively short distances across the North Atlantic, from Iceland, to Greenland, to North America. Columbus is credited with making the first true open ocean crossing, taking a much more southern route, but it also took him almost another five hundred years to do so.

Here is where I expose the lie.
Muslim lacked the shipbuilding technology to reach the North American continent. Muslim shipbuilding in 1000 AD did not have the capability for the three month transatlantic crossing. Prove me wrong by finding just one reliable historical reference to a ship built in a practicing Muslim country in 1000 AD that even had the technical capability to make a transatlantic crossing. There were none.

You further claim that Arabs interbred with Seneca Indians. Interesting.

For the purposes of our argument, we’ll create a time machine, and give the Arabs a copy of Columbus’s ships so that they could technically reach American shores.

So, Arabs landed and then interbred with Senecas?

Exposing another lie
Any sailor worth his salt knows that is an impossibility because of prevailing winds in the Atlantic. Because of the routes geography would force Arab sailors to take, leaving from North Africa and the Mediterranean, and the forces of the prevailing winds of the southern part of the Northern hemisphere, they would strike land in the West Indies as did Columbus, or in the most extreme northern-most variation, the coast of North Carolina. The northernmost tribe you were like to run into were the Tuscarora. The Seneca are a New York based tribe. Based upon that knowledge, your fellow Muslim sailors would have still fallen short of the modern day New York state border by more than seven hundred miles.

In addition, the Seneca lived in western New York, placing the Seneca at least a thousand miles away from where Muslims could have come ashore.

The Muslims would have also had to transverse the Mahican Confederacy, a group of Native American warriors with a high degree of organizational combat structure, in approximately 40 highly-fortified villages. In short, your argument holds no merit.

These lies are exposed. And these are just two of many.

To your:
"Simply run a Google search on "muslim native american". You will retrieve 306,000 "hits". The very first one contains lots of proof. Many Native Americans had Arabic names until well into the 19th Century. Note also the translation of "Tallahassee"."

A Google search of "Muslim Terror" brings "1,010,000" results.

"Muslim Terror against Muslims" brings "647,000" results.

Quit while you are ahead.

My previous is to Reza

Bob Owens:

Thank you. You just gotta love a guy who's masterful with his factual arguments - an ability whose essentials Reza and Mahmoud will never grasp.

Bob Owens:

Mahmoud ran away from you and now he's posting re Native Americans on the "U.S. Troops ..." thread.

Sheesh, do I sound like a tattletale, or what?
:-/

He can run, but he can't hide... Guess what post is being copied to which thread? ;-)

Ibn Rushd:

I'm interested in your comments about your educational situation. What type of school do you go to - don't name it, just describe the type of school, general geographic area and general educational climate. How is it that you don't conform to the standards, or that you would face discrimination that would result in low grades?

For sometime now I've been reading posts and different threads on here and have kept quiet but after what I just went through, I cannot any longer. First, let me start by saying I watched the news broadcast of newest threats to attack the US this summer and fall and I literally ran into the other room to grab my sleeping infant and hold her the entire time. These people are intent on killing every single person on this earth whether they are Muslim or not. If they were truly Muslims, they would not wish to kill their own AND they would not wish to kill innocent people whether it's women and children or not, INNOCENT MEANS INNOCENT! Now after watching that wonderul news I'm just supposed to go back to my life and not think about burying my child, my husband because of some bastard that claims to be an American or an attack that happens while we're at a mall or some other place or home for that? I fully intend to call the police any anyone or anything I think is odd, I will keep the police on my speed dial and will surely now look to getting a gun. I've never wanted to own one before but since these bastards are running lose in the United States I won't stop to shoot. You want people to see peace in Islam? How can we? We are under attack for being a free country, we are not without mistakes and wrong doings whether they be public or private but now we deserve to die in the name of Allah? Who made them God? Now, onto my second problem:
For years I've been going to this one gas station that is owned by a Muslim. He is always very nice, polite, well groomed. Prior to Sept 11 many of us have always known he was a Muslim, on Sept 11 I was at his gas station when the radio announced the second tower being hit. He turned me, muttered something that sounded like a prayer in Arabic, and told me he was truly sorry if I had anyone killed. At first I was taken aback and wondered why the hell he would be saying this to me? A few days after 9/11 I went back and had my child with me and he looked at me with the most threatening look I've ever seen telling me that I need to make my child Muslim before she and I die. This same person who was always so nice and made extra effort to do some nice and kind things began changing right in front of me starting on 9/11. At first I thought maybe he was being nice and felt badly that he was associated with a religion that had just attacked us but when I saw him after 9/11, he was pure evil. He was still well groomed and kept but was saying all kinds of nasty, evil things. Well he was jumped by several men and beaten pretty badly. You can't expect us to just sit back and continue on our way when he is sitting there saying these hurtful, disgusting things. At this point, I'm even wondering if he is someone the FBI is looking for and believe me, I contacted the police ASAP and they took what I told them seriously as cops were down there quickly and his gas station as since then closed down. He had told me that every Muslim that is here believes that unless you convert you must die. There is no such thing as being here and not wanting to take over the entire world with Islam. He kept stating that Muslims will kill if you do not listen to what they are saying and that no matter what lies a Muslim might say, it is their duty to openly lie in order to get you to come to our side, that there is no such thing as peace, Islam will dominate all and women will lose all that they have ever known, our husbands must rule us so that we behave ourselves. And then I read all the posts here and I'm supposed to forget what this man said to me, the way he looked at me telling me there are many here than just him and that I should never let my guard down! I wish I had a gun that day so I could have shot him dead. Go ahead, tell me that I am wrong for saying that or thinking that but what would you do if someone came to attack your family, Muslim or not, you wouldn't fight for them, what about if you see someone in the street attacking an innocent, a woman or child, would you not step in to save them? If you can tell me no than you do not deserve to have the same liberty that we share as Americans and yet you say we are so hostile and against Islam, why can't you and everyone else understand that we are being attacked and we are just going to sit back and be quiet and nice? How can we? Why can't you understand what America is facing and rather than try so earnestly to educate us on Islam, stand up and tell us that you pray none of us or our family gets hurt or killed regardless of what is being said on these posts? You pray for protection against those who wish to do us nothing but harm and that you pray an angel will be with us, surrounding us to keep us safe whether we are Muslim or not. You keep wanting to educate us but can't you see why we don't want to be told any of this? We are war with an enemy that doesn't listen to reason, that uses something that is supposed to be considered holy as his religion or faith to back up as to why he is doing this, someone who is intent on killing everyone in the name of his religion. The Middle East is so violent and full of hate, how abot Iran/Iraq the years they were figthing one another. You say how we went into Iraq, would you rather we allow Saddam to continue his reign with his sons and those who did not deserve punishment or death, continue dying and bleeding? We took him out of power, yes we have our wrongs but what would you rather have, Saddam in power or out? Without us Saddam would still be in power and god only knows what would've happened to more people. Why can't you, all of you try for at least one minute to understand why we are so in your face about our views on Islam, that is all we see and hear and now with this latest news of more attacks that will be more severe and you expect the American people to just what, relax and learn about Islam? Why so that we may die while we understand this? NO! I for one do not want to learn about Islam, not until all Al-queda, Bin Laden are dead. Once the threat is gone and these people are all dead, I will then sit and learn about Islam. You cannot tell me ever that these people will give up or see the peace that is Islam, what peace? I don't think they know what the word means. My child will never grow up and live her life as she will die this summer along with millions of other innocent people and there's nothing the government or law officials can or will do. If they did, they would've taken the threats prior to Sept 11 more seriously, they laughed it off saying we get millions of threats every day how could they possibly know that those threats were going happen. For all those government/FBI officials: Well, assholes they did and now you're going to take the newest threats seriously becasue why, I'll tell you why, because you are assholes who stood by and allowed millions to die on 9/11 when you already had the information and could've tried to stop it or at least minimize the number of deaths. But no, you couldn't waste your damn time, who the hell cares how many threats we get each day, you should follow each one, you do not know which one is serious or not and if you really were/are concerned with Americans lives, you need to act more like it. No instead you allow foreigners in our world so they can learn about us and take that info back to Bin Laden in order to kill us, you son of a bitches, you should not be allowed to live, how about you and your family being blown to bits that's what you deserve you do our country no good ever. Now you want the American people to help you by notifing authorities and what do you plan on doing with that information? SIT ON IT AS USUAL? You won't do a damn thing because you have no clue!
Well, I will take the law into my own hands now since the law doesn't seem to do anything to help protect it's people. I will not be a victim but I will be the one jail right and those terrorists will be free?
As far any Muslim on this site that truly, TRULY wants to educate us and not kill us, stop telling us that our grandchildren will be Muslim, for once stop and understand what threat we are facing and help us to find a way to bring those down who want to kill us. I implore every REAL AMERICAN on this site to bring those down in anyway in order to safeguard our security and well being. Being an AMERICAN should mean more to those who left their own countries in search of a better life and they should be the first on line to proclaim AMERICA free from terrorism and all it stands for.

If Muslims really did interbreed with native Americans, couldn't we simply do genetic testing to either confirm or disconfirm that hypothesis?

And thank YOU, Bob Owens, I love your posts.

mohammod,

what about all the slaves in the Arab land yes today the arab mulsums are taking black slave from Africa wow that is some thing to think about the here and now!

We the American People will not live in Fear or without Freedom! You Fear the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. If you think you can kill all his people you will bring his wrath as has been done so many times before! We have not run out to buy qu-rans we have bought guns. Yes some will die but we will win and do not think this is Like Europe we have saved their butts twice before but this is not like Vitienam it is like WW2 and we will win!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS Iraq will be Free and you never answered why were you slient while saddam killed all those Iraqis 300,000 and Cut out toungs and cut off hands and cut off heads and raped their children why were you slient?????

Cgw, your wish is my command:

Dear Reza and Mahmoud:

Shut your lying pieholes. Muslims are not oppressed here nor anywhere else. Stop apologizing for Jihadi terrorists and start helping to think up ways to modernize your cult or it will not last. The only thing keeping Islam alive now is Saudi Arabian oil.

Sooner of later you should question the motives of Mohamed. Isn’t it possible that he was actually crazy, and seeking only to make a comfortable life for himself? Have you ever heard of the American, David Koresh? Read about him. It should sound familiar.

Islam, like Christianity, spread via invasion and forced conversion, period. They are both based on fairytales designed to scare children and child-like adults. It is hard to do, but eventually I admitted one day, “I am no longer a Christian.” What a relief! Now I am looking at religions that don’t have violent histories, that weren’t founded by mass-murderers. Look into the religions that Islam attempted to destroy: Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc. They’re pretty peaceful.

You will find that www.secularislam.org is an excellent source of data for someone who is considering apostasy. Just go there and read what your fellow Muslims have to say now that they have escaped the overwhelming misogyny, anti-semitism, wahhabism, and jihadi culture that has ruined so many people.

Islam will NEVER take over America. If there is a serious attempt to do so, the jihadis will only succeed in making a supersized rendition of Israel and your beloved “palestine.” Now is the right time for you to seriously consider dragging your religion into the 21st century. If there is another rash of jihadi attacks here in America, the outcome will not be in your favor. Americans are tolerant and rational, but only to a point (consider what would happen if a group a Christian, Hindu, or other militants attacked a muslim nation and destroyed the local versions of the WTC and the Pentagon: lynch mobs would kill every Christian (etc.) man, woman, child, and pet that they could find.

Should another jihadi terrorist attack occur here in America, I doubt the rabble would hold back again. Because I am a liberal, I hate bullies. I would defend innocent conservatives if they were being attacked by liberals, I would defend innocent liberals if they were being attacked by conservatives. I would defend innocent Muslims if they were being attacked by non-Muslims. But if the shit hits the fan, we may not be able, and frankly may not even be too willing to protect you, because most of you do nothing to help the situation.

Now, has anyone heard from Bob Owens? He “forgot” to answer my five little questions earlier. Instead, he strung together parts of some of my arguments, attempting to make me look like a babbling fool. As if I couldn’t do the same with his lies.

Hey, Bob! Is that all you learned at the Rush Limbaugh Institute? JUST ANSWER THE FIVE QUESTIONS.
1) Were there any terror attacks prior to the Clinton era (think Beirut)?
2) Were any terror attacks thwarted during the Clinton era (think Y2K)?
3) Were more Americans killed by terrorists under Reagan, or Clinton.?
4) What should Clinton have done to avenge the USS Cole attack, and did Bush do anything?
5) What did Bush do to fight terror prior to 911?

And here’s a new one:

If Clinton is responsible for 9-11 because it occurred eight months after HE left office, why isn’t Bush Sr. responsible for WTC’93, Somalia, and Waco, which all happened less that eight months after HE left office?

Catherine, you crazy, illiterate fool. He was silent for the same reason you and Reagan and the rest of us were silent. When Saddam was "gassing his own people" and doing all those other nasty things, he was also FIGHTING THE IRANIANS. The Gipper said Saddam was our ally, so WE didn't say squat. Saddam was our bestest bud, until he threatened our most bestest buds, the Saudis.

After "we" saved the Saudis from Saddam and the Afghanis from the commies, they repaid us by setting up maddrassas in Pakistan to form the Taliban. And raising up 15 of the 19 911 hijackers themselves. Funny that so many of Bush Sr. and Reagan's friends turn out to hurt us later, huh? (Noriega, Saddam, Osama.)

But keep on whining about liberal, Catherine. That's IMPORTANT.

Has anyone seen my drugs? Ha ha. That one's for you Catheter. Looks like Catherine forgot to take her exlax again. Ha ha. Oh, sorry. I forgot, only con-reps may insult people. I'm not allowed... I might hurt some little baby's FEEEEEELINGS. (Rush Limbaugh sneer.)

Speaking of Rush, why doesn't Catherine ask him if he got his drugs today? LOL. Maybe Limbaugh will convert to Islam when he goes to prison.

RE: JUST ANSWER THE FIVE QUESTIONS
Keithjoy,

I guess you couldn’t handle the wording of my previous post, so I’ll try to reduce this repost to a more accessible reading level.

Were there any terror attacks prior to the Clinton era (think Beirut)?
Why yes, there were. So good of you to notice.

Were any terror attacks thwarted during the Clinton era (think Y2K)?
During? Yes. Because of? No.

Were more Americans killed by terrorists under Reagan, or Clinton.?
Reagan: 321 dead, 80 injured in two attacks over eight years.
Clinton: 154 dead, 6,054 wounded in five attacks over eight years.

What should Clinton have done to avenge the USS Cole attack, and did Bush do anything?
Anything was better than nothing, but Clinton was good at nothing, and so that is what he stuck with.

Bush did “not do anything” out of respect for the previous administration’s lame duck policies. Republicans and Democrats have respected the last minute decisions of previous administrations throughout American history. Nice try, though.

What did Bush do to fight terror prior to 911?
On June 5, 2000, the National Commission on Terrorism (NTC), a congressionally mandated group, issued its report, Countering the Changing Threat of International Terrorism. The report argued for a more aggressive U.S. strategy in combating terrorism – specifically, a proactive intelligence and law enforcement authority to collect intelligence about terrorist plans and methods, employing sanctions against all states that support terrorists, disrupting non-governmental sources of terrorist support, planning to respond to WMD (weapons of mass destruction) terrorist attacks, and improved integration of individual agency counterterrorism programs into a comprehensive national counterterrorism plan.

As for your new question, I have no problem with crediting Bush Sr. with WTC’93. This was an intelligence failure on his part.

Somalia and Waco were both firmly Clinton’s.

Any offensive movement by a president (foreign or domestic) cannot be blamed on the previous administration if that administration did not lead into the engagement, just as Kerry would not be blamed for getting us into Iraq or Afghanistan should we elect him.

Keithjoy,

I made a mathematical mistake in the post above.

In your response to your question:

"Were more Americans killed by terrorists under Reagan, or Clinton?" I said:
Reagan: 321 dead, 80 injured in two attacks over eight years.
Clinton: 154 dead, 6,054 wounded in five attacks over eight years.

I was wrong. It shoud read:

Reagan: 321 dead, 80 injured in two attacks over eight years.
Clinton: 279 dead, 6,054 wounded in five attacks over eight years.

Well Bobo, it looks like its just you and me left checking this old board. 279 dead under Clinton? Is that just Americans, or are you counting the Africans at the embassies? And are you counting those killed by the conservative, republican christian, Timothy McVeigh?

I was talking mainly about Muslim terrorists. In your attempts to vilify liberals, you may sometimes forget that this site is SUPPOSED to be about Jihad.

But at least you can admit that terrorism didn't start under Clinton. So now, please tell me: what did Reagan do when the Marines were killed in Beirut?

As for what Bush did, you cited something congress did prior to 911, not something Bush did. So nice of you to credit the Democrat-controlled senate with fighting terrorism, but I asked you what did BUSH do? Anyway nice try. At least you answered this time.

Now when you said:

"Bush did “not do anything” out of respect for the previous administration’s lame duck policies. Republicans and Democrats have respected the last minute decisions of previous administrations throughout American history."

Now, THAT is funny. You made a funny joke. Since Clinton was so good at doing nothing, "out of respect," Bush did the same? Thanks for the laugh.

You claim that terror attacks thwarted under Clinton administration were not done so "because of Clinton," yet aren't you the one that says 911 occurred "because of Clinton?"

Actually, I am in partial agreement with you on why they were thwarted. The guy was caught on a procedural fluke at the Canadian/Washington border. But, he YIELDED some information about another terrorist plan, and when those jihadis were caught they YIELDED some more info on another plan, and by FOLLOWING UP on leads, all the y2k terrorist plots fell apart. Clinton didn't personally do any investigation, I am sure. But his administration ACTIVELY followed every lead, and FOLLOWED UP on every story.

Don't you remember why? Because the whole nation was concerned about terrorist attacks during y2k. That was the focus of the Clinton administration the last two years of his term, he successfully prevented AT LEAST three major attacks.

When Bush came in, he focused on tax cuts and SDI. The religiously-insane John Ashcroft focused on internet porno, Oregon's euthanasia law, and potsmokers. So when the FBI found Arab Muslims learning to land but not fly jumbo jets, the report got ignored. When the brief showed up entitled "Bin Laden encourage to strike in the US" it got ignored. When terrorist chatter was at an all-time high, it got ignored. When briefings said the WTC was the most likely terrorist target, they got ignored. When briefings reported that planes could be used as missiles, they got ignored. On 9-10, when "someone" was dumping American Airlines stock, that got ignored. (Even after the first WTC was struck, no fighter jets were scrambled.... why?)

Now maybe they weren't completely ignored. But they were not followed up on correctly. You wingers are fond of saying "Thank God W won! Can you imagine how Gore would have handled this?"

I can. Probably the same way "Clinton handled" the Y2K attacks. I imagine how Gore would have handled it every time I drive past the disfigured NY skyline... twice a day, M-F.

Bob, to make these tete-a-tetes easier, could you please tell me how you change to italics? Are you using a HTML command or something?

Ken

Once again, liberals looking for handouts from the people on the right who know what they are doing...

;-)

Bob Owens:

I want to know how to do the italics also.

Bob Owens and keithjoy:

Can't we stop focusing on who did or didn't do what and focus on WHAT TO DO NOW AND FROM NOW ON? The two of you still don't realize that you are actually ON THE SAME SIDE; imagine, the two of you share TWO "labels" - "anti-jihadist" and "anti-Islamist". Blood brothers, after all. :-)

CGW, of course we realize we're on the same side! Some poeple just like to argue. Email me, and I'll let you in on the coding secrets of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy...