Step back for a minute and imagine an army led by a Buddhist monk or Christian priest, who was only one of many such clerics who preached violence from the pulpit and led armed forces. Then tell yourself that the Islamic identity of people like Al-Sadr and his lieutenant is incidental to what they are doing. Yet this politically correct myopia continues to afflict most Western policymakers, to our detriment.
From AP:
BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. troops captured a key lieutenant of radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr during overnight clashes in Najaf that killed 24 people and wounded nearly 50, hospital and militia officials said.
He offered no resistance that's because he knew he was done. GOOD, GET THEM ALL. He doesn't belong in a community where he can hurt others, even his own in the name of his religion.
I have to believe that somewhere, someone is speaking the reality of Islam to the "powers" that be...Whether they have to courage to act on the knowledge they have got to be getting is another story...
"Good JOB" to the Military! Take Sadhr's support network apart one by one if necessary...
There will be more to cheer about when they capture Al-sadr....this guy seems to prance around giving hate speeches anwhere there are crowds of idiots to listen to him...wont be long.
Thought they wanted to die for their ROCK guess we should use this as an example that they LIE lie lie!!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to Stay the course to Victory Amen
I think Al-Sadr should think now and quickly surrender himself if he still in his right mind. Time is running out for him....
Slightly OT, but certainly pertinant to JihadWatch, is the troubling incident of a famed British university inviting a terrorist and giving him a platform to speak!
http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/stories/?disp_type=0&disp_story=kRvEa6
I SAY GIVE THE PALESTINIANS AND EXTREMESTS A HOMES STATE SO THEY CAN ALL GET TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE.....** DEVILISHLY GRINNING **...... maybe Iran??????
Yes give them Iran then in about 1 year after all the nutcases are settled down ..nuke em!!
Native American Genocide Still Haunts United States
In the past, the main thrust of the Holocaust/Genocide Project's magazine, An End To Intolerance, has been the genocides that occurred in history and outside of the United States. Still, what we mustn't forget is that mass killing of Native Americans occurred in our own country. As a result, bigotry and racial discrimination still exist.
"In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue" . . . and made the first contact with the "Indians." For Native Americans, the world after 1492 would never be the same. This date marked the beginning of the long road of persecution and genocide of Native Americans, our indigenous people. Genocide was an important cause of the decline for many tribes.
"By conservative estimates, the population of the United states prior to European contact was greater than 12 million. Four centuries later, the count was reduced by 95% to 237 thousand.
In 1493, when Columbus returned to the Hispaniola, he quickly implemented policies of slavery and mass extermination of the Taino population of the Caribbean. Within three years, five million were dead. Las Casas, the primary historian of the Columbian era, writes of many accounts of the horrors that the Spanish colonists inflicted upon the indigenous population: hanging them en mass, hacking their children into pieces to be used as dog feed, and other horrid cruelties. The works of Las Casas are often omitted from popular American history books and courses because Columbus is considered a hero by many, even today.
Mass killing did not cease, however, after Columbus departed. Expansion of the European colonies led to similar genocides. "Indian Removal" policy was put into action to clear the land for white settlers. Methods for the removal included slaughter of villages by the military and also biological warfare. High death rates resulted from forced marches to relocate the Indians.
The Removal Act of 1830 set into motion a series of events which led to the "Trail of Tears" in 1838, a forced march of the Cherokees, resulting in the destruction of most of the Cherokee population." The concentration of American Indians in small geographic areas, and the scattering of them from their homelands, caused increased death, primarily because of associated military actions, disease, starvation, extremely harsh conditions during the moves, and the resulting destruction of ways of life.
During American expansion into the western frontier, one primary effort to destroy the Indian way of life was the attempts of the U.S. government to make farmers and cattle ranchers of the Indians. In addition, one of the most substantial methods was the premeditated destructions of flora and fauna which the American Indians used for food and a variety of other purposes. We now also know that the Indians were intentionally exposed to smallpox by Europeans. The discovery of gold in California, early in 1848, prompted American migration and expansion into the west. The greed of Americans for money and land was rejuvenated with the Homestead Act of 1862. In California and Texas there was blatant genocide of Indians by non-Indians during certain historic periods. In California, the decrease from about a quarter of a million to less than 20,000 is primarily due to the cruelties and wholesale massacres perpetrated by the miners and early settlers. Indian education began with forts erected by Jesuits, in which indigenous youths were incarcerated, indoctrinated with non-indigenous Christian values, and forced into manual labor. These children were forcibly removed from their parents by soldiers and many times never saw their families until later in their adulthood. This was after their value systems and knowledge had been supplanted with colonial thinking. One of the foundations of the U.S. imperialist strategy was to replace traditional leadership of the various indigenous nations with indoctrinated "graduates" of white "schools," in order to expedite compliance with U.S. goals and expansion.
Probably one of the most ruinous acts to the Indians was the disappearance of the buffalo. For the Indians who lived on the Plains, life depended on the buffalo. At the beginning of the nineteenth century, there were an estimated forty million buffalo, but between 1830 and 1888 there was a rapid, systematic extermination culminating in the sudden slaughter of the only two remaining Plain herds. By around 1895, the formerly vast buffalo populations were practically extinct. The slaughter occurred because of the economic value of buffalo hides to Americans and because the animals were in the way of the rapidly westward expanding population. The end result was widescale starvation and the social and cultural disintegration of many Plains tribes.
Mahmoud~ I don't see the words 'totally annihilated' anywhere in that text. Like I mentioned to you elsewhere, my Indian friends on the Powwow circuit (which I worked in for 9 years) seemed pretty lively to me. Can You say the same about Christians and animists in Sudan (assuming your world-view is permitted to have its way in that country).
And again, I don't recall Any of them having Arab features, OR arab names. Nor do any of their Origins mention people coming from the east to intermarry and lead them.
For that matter, NONE of their religion/myths seem to have any relation to yours. And I've been reading/researching those for 20 years.
Hopefully, it won't take us four centuries to reduce the Muslim population by 95%...
Hopefully, it won't take us four centuries to reduce the Muslim population by 95%...
Hopefully, it won't take us four centuries to reduce the Muslim population by 95%...
Mahmoud:
I notice that you posted someone else's work without citing the original source. Afraid your "source" won't stand up to objective scrutiny?
Gary
Do you belive the present situation of united states is a results of centuries systematicly genocide of native americans and enslaving africans? first clearing up your history and being honest with yourself (as you say you are "in it" for 20 years) will realy help you to admit the true horror behind western civilization. Did you honestly read all the above article i posted? or you just randomly wandered around it. Don't oyu have any comment on The Removal Act of 1830 ? and the fact that "The works of Las Casas are often omitted from popular American history books and courses because Columbus is considered a hero by many, even today." ?? stop acusing Islam of hatred and showing your self as a symbols of democracy. american hands are dirty in many many bloods from The Removal Act of 1830 till Abu-Ghoraib. This includes native indians, africans and now Arab world.
CGW,
This is my source you infidel:
http://www.google.nl/search?q=genocide+native+americans&ie=UTF-8&hl=en
Are you so ignorant looking for sources still? probably going out and counting buffalos will tell you how your grand parents raped and killed native indian children and woman. again and again all of you try to cover up all the genocides you did to reach 21st centuries. Muslim brothers knows that your false democracy is nothing but a evil propaganda to deliver the world to the zionists
My son plays lacrosse and we spend alot of time on reservations and hanging out with native americans...I know several and NONE of them are muslim or will ever claim that their ancestors were...the ones I know are either Christian or practice their own spirituality related to the earth...the stereotypes given to them are unjust for the most part and I have found them to be great friends. When we discuss current events I can say for sure that the muslims will have a bloody war on their hands trying to convert the native americans...they have a proud heritage and wont ever be dhimmis.
The so-called Mahmoud is a vile, hateful, trollish little fanatic and should be ignored and allowed to choke on his own ignorance and bile. He is not worth engaging.
Mahmoud:
We proud infidels will wipe Islam from the face of the planet before we will submit to it - and we have the means and the will to do it. You want to see bloody American hands? Just wait ...
Mahmoud, you ran from me, but I've found you.
I apologize to those of you who've already read this on "Suspicions" thread...
Reza and Mahmoud,
I’ll take just two of your Islamic lies, and prove them wrong with indisputable scientific facts.
You (Reza) state ”It has been well established that Muslim seafarers reached the Americas long before the Europeans did so. It is also known that Muslims intermarried with the women of several Native American tribes, particularly the Senneca[sic].”
While Columbus Day is still celebrated, it is now widely accepted that Leif Ericsson landed in North America and established a short-lived colony in what is now Nova Scotia about 1000 AD, 492 years before Columbus. These are established facts, and even your Islamist scholars do not try to refute these actors and times. So any Muslim landing most have taken place before 1000 AD.
For any sailor to reach North America, they would have to make a transatlantic crossing. Ericsson succeeded, in part, because he was able to “island hop” relatively short distances across the North Atlantic, from Iceland, to Greenland, to North America. Columbus is credited with making the first true open ocean crossing, taking a much more southern route, but it also took him almost another five hundred years to do so.
Here is where I expose the lie.
Muslims lacked the shipbuilding technology to reach the North American continent. Muslim shipbuilding in 1000 AD did not have the capability for the three month transatlantic crossing. Prove me wrong by finding just one reliable historical reference to a ship built in a practicing Muslim country in 1000 AD that even had the technical capability to make a transatlantic crossing. There were none.
You further claim that Arabs interbred with Seneca Indians. Interesting.
For the purposes of our argument, we’ll create a time machine, and give the Arabs a copy of Columbus’s ships so that they could technically reach American shores.
So, Arabs landed and then interbred with Senecas?
Exposing another lie
Any sailor worth his salt knows that is an impossibility because of prevailing winds in the Atlantic. Because of the routes geography would force Arab sailors to take, leaving from North Africa and the Mediterranean, and the forces of the prevailing winds of the southern part of the Northern hemisphere, they would strike land in the West Indies as did Columbus, or in the most extreme northern-most variation, the coast of North Carolina. The northernmost tribe you were like to run into were the Tuscarora. The Seneca are a New York based tribe. Based upon that knowledge, your fellow Muslim sailors would have still fallen short of the modern day New York state border by more than seven hundred miles.
In addition, the Seneca lived in western New York, placing the Seneca at least a thousand miles away from where Muslims could have come ashore.
The Muslims would have also had to transverse the Mahican Confederacy, a group of Native American warriors with a high degree of organizational combat structure, in approximately 40 highly-fortified villages. In short, your argument holds no merit.
These lies are exposed. And these are just two of many.
Hey....most Indians I know are Catholics. And.....in reality, there is alway 1 faction warring with another. I am glad I am on the winng side!
Either you are a fuckee or fucker.
Mahmoud~ You seem to have Missed the fact that I spent a fair chunk of my life Involved with Indians in my home country (the US). I'm quite familiar with the history. I'm quite familiar with exaggerations on both sides of the history.
I am quite familiar with the simple FACT that you and yours are NOT part of the history- and will be one among a great, Great many- including Indians on the two American continents- who makes sure you never will be part of the history.
The inferences you choose to draw from history are proof that people can learn the Wrong lessons from it. The fact that the US moves forward as a Living Experiment and that some rather bad mistakes have been made during that experiment, DO NOT invalidate it.
Another extremely bad mistake is occuring in the US and Canada right now- its called Politically Correct thinking. Expediency of thought (more appropriately, LACK of thought), which creates far more problems than it solves.
Part of that PC is the people who Support the likes of you in the universities. The tide, Praise God, is beginning to turn there- but only just. When your friends begin striking at these countries, the tide will become a Sea Change.
Have a Nice Day.
Aliyah,
For sometime now I've been reading posts and different threads on here and have kept quiet but after what I just went through, I cannot any longer. First, let me start by saying I watched the news broadcast of newest threats to attack the US this summer and fall and I literally ran into the other room to grab my sleeping infant and hold her the entire time. These people are intent on killing every single person on this earth whether they are Muslim or not. If they were truly Muslims, they would not wish to kill their own AND they would not wish to kill innocent people whether it's women and children or not, INNOCENT MEANS INNOCENT! Now after watching that wonderul news I'm just supposed to go back to my life and not think about burying my child, my husband because of some bastard that claims to be an American or an attack that happens while we're at a mall or some other place or home for that? I fully intend to call the police any anyone or anything I think is odd, I will keep the police on my speed dial and will surely now look to getting a gun. I've never wanted to own one before but since these bastards are running lose in the United States I won't stop to shoot. You want people to see peace in Islam? How can we? We are under attack for being a free country, we are not without mistakes and wrong doings whether they be public or private but now we deserve to die in the name of Allah? Who made them God? Now, onto my second problem:
For years I've been going to this one gas station that is owned by a Muslim. He is always very nice, polite, well groomed. Prior to Sept 11 many of us have always known he was a Muslim, on Sept 11 I was at his gas station when the radio announced the second tower being hit. He turned me, muttered something that sounded like a prayer in Arabic, and told me he was truly sorry if I had anyone killed. At first I was taken aback and wondered why the hell he would be saying this to me? A few days after 9/11 I went back and had my child with me and he looked at me with the most threatening look I've ever seen telling me that I need to make my child Muslim before she and I die. This same person who was always so nice and made extra effort to do some nice and kind things began changing right in front of me starting on 9/11. At first I thought maybe he was being nice and felt badly that he was associated with a religion that had just attacked us but when I saw him after 9/11, he was pure evil. He was still well groomed and kept but was saying all kinds of nasty, evil things. Well he was jumped by several men and beaten pretty badly. You can't expect us to just sit back and continue on our way when he is sitting there saying these hurtful, disgusting things. At this point, I'm even wondering if he is someone the FBI is looking for and believe me, I contacted the police ASAP and they took what I told them seriously as cops were down there quickly and his gas station as since then closed down. He had told me that every Muslim that is here believes that unless you convert you must die. There is no such thing as being here and not wanting to take over the entire world with Islam. He kept stating that Muslims will kill if you do not listen to what they are saying and that no matter what lies a Muslim might say, it is their duty to openly lie in order to get you to come to our side, that there is no such thing as peace, Islam will dominate all and women will lose all that they have ever known, our husbands must rule us so that we behave ourselves. And then I read all the posts here and I'm supposed to forget what this man said to me, the way he looked at me telling me there are many here than just him and that I should never let my guard down! I wish I had a gun that day so I could have shot him dead. Go ahead, tell me that I am wrong for saying that or thinking that but what would you do if someone came to attack your family, Muslim or not, you wouldn't fight for them, what about if you see someone in the street attacking an innocent, a woman or child, would you not step in to save them? If you can tell me no than you do not deserve to have the same liberty that we share as Americans and yet you say we are so hostile and against Islam, why can't you and everyone else understand that we are being attacked and we are just going to sit back and be quiet and nice? How can we? Why can't you understand what America is facing and rather than try so earnestly to educate us on Islam, stand up and tell us that you pray none of us or our family gets hurt or killed regardless of what is being said on these posts? You pray for protection against those who wish to do us nothing but harm and that you pray an angel will be with us, surrounding us to keep us safe whether we are Muslim or not. You keep wanting to educate us but can't you see why we don't want to be told any of this? We are war with an enemy that doesn't listen to reason, that uses something that is supposed to be considered holy as his religion or faith to back up as to why he is doing this, someone who is intent on killing everyone in the name of his religion. The Middle East is so violent and full of hate, how abot Iran/Iraq the years they were figthing one another. You say how we went into Iraq, would you rather we allow Saddam to continue his reign with his sons and those who did not deserve punishment or death, continue dying and bleeding? We took him out of power, yes we have our wrongs but what would you rather have, Saddam in power or out? Without us Saddam would still be in power and god only knows what would've happened to more people. Why can't you, all of you try for at least one minute to understand why we are so in your face about our views on Islam, that is all we see and hear and now with this latest news of more attacks that will be more severe and you expect the American people to just what, relax and learn about Islam? Why so that we may die while we understand this? NO! I for one do not want to learn about Islam, not until all Al-queda, Bin Laden are dead. Once the threat is gone and these people are all dead, I will then sit and learn about Islam. You cannot tell me ever that these people will give up or see the peace that is Islam, what peace? I don't think they know what the word means. My child will never grow up and live her life as she will die this summer along with millions of other innocent people and there's nothing the government or law officials can or will do. If they did, they would've taken the threats prior to Sept 11 more seriously, they laughed it off saying we get millions of threats every day how could they possibly know that those threats were going happen. For all those government/FBI officials: Well, assholes they did and now you're going to take the newest threats seriously becasue why, I'll tell you why, because you are assholes who stood by and allowed millions to die on 9/11 when you already had the information and could've tried to stop it or at least minimize the number of deaths. But no, you couldn't waste your damn time, who the hell cares how many threats we get each day, you should follow each one, you do not know which one is serious or not and if you really were/are concerned with Americans lives, you need to act more like it. No instead you allow foreigners in our world so they can learn about us and take that info back to Bin Laden in order to kill us, you son of a bitches, you should not be allowed to live, how about you and your family being blown to bits that's what you deserve you do our country no good ever. Now you want the American people to help you by notifing authorities and what do you plan on doing with that information? SIT ON IT AS USUAL? You won't do a damn thing because you have no clue!
Well, I will take the law into my own hands now since the law doesn't seem to do anything to help protect it's people. I will not be a victim but I will be the one jail right and those terrorists will be free?
As far any Muslim on this site that truly, TRULY wants to educate us and not kill us, stop telling us that our grandchildren will be Muslim, for once stop and understand what threat we are facing and help us to find a way to bring those down who want to kill us. I implore every REAL AMERICAN on this site to bring those down in anyway in order to safeguard our security and well being. Being an AMERICAN should mean more to those who left their own countries in search of a better life and they should be the first on line to proclaim AMERICA free from terrorism and all it stands for.
Something is wrong with the Liberal Press.... They brand Bush as a 'religious conservative. And then when it comes to Jihadists, they say nothing.
Barry Fell, a New Zealand archaeologist and linguist, wrote in his book Saga America (1980) that a considerable amount of material indicates an early Muslim presence in various parts of the Americas. He pointed out that the southwest’s Pima people have words of Arabic origin in their language. Adding strength to his contention is the existence of Islamic petrogyphs in places like California. He identified many words with Arabic roots that relate to navigation, meteorology, medicine, and anatomy.
German art historian Alexander von Wuthenau, in his groundbreaking work Unexpected Faces in Ancient America (1975), identified a group of carved heads, found in Mexico, as “Moorish-looking” and dated them between 300-900 CE. Ivan van Sertima, in his popular book They Came Before Columbus, also mentions the early contact. Citing twelfth- and thirteenth-century Chinese documents, he wrote that they mention “Arab” Muslim trade as extending beyond the Atlantic coast of West Africa.
If the Islamic Community in the U.S. wants to score some MAJOR brownie points with the rest of us...they'd better turn over ANY and ALL information they have on the terror cells hiding in their communities. Pronto !!
Mahmuod
Every country has a past of success and error. The difference between a educated society is one that learns from both.
There is not a single Western society that has any form of slavery. And while I do not agree with most of what you paint as a picture about the Native Americans we have tried to correct wrongs that have been made.
But while you have been pointing outside of Islam now is time to look to look within.....
Islam has been a cult that has started in war, mutilation, and primarily slavery. In Americas short existance of a few hundred years we have learned and changed. But Islam going on now 1,500 years has never changed and is doing the same as when it started; war, mutilation and slavery.
We see your wars, conquering, assimilation of peoples and countries. We see your mutilations of societies and people (Isreal, Sudan, etc, etc.). We see your slavery in the African nations (along with rape). And your slavery in the African nations is not new. You have been doing this for...1,500 years. Islam was one of the primary ground forces gathering the Africans for the Western slave market.
Our own state department also states that a large number of youth, from children to college age that dissapear in the US are kidnapped and taken to muslim countries, primarily Saudi. This is done by you righteous cult for sex.
As the Bible says "why are you complaining about the splinter in another person eye, when you have a whole beam sticking out of your eye?". Also, "judge not, less ye be judged" meaning don't be judge unless you are willing to be judeged on the same subject.
I suggest you need to do some house cleaning at home.
Gary,
Another wrong lesson from history is to forget history. I am really amazed that you called the systematic genocide of native americans as a simple bad mistake! to go on with your experiment! tell me is the lives of children, men and women your experiment? Do you think you can just walk around on the earth and kill every nation you wanted to steal their resources and call it an experiment? This evil experiment is what Almighty Allah promises in Holy Koran to crush down. More and more it shows the real hypocracy you all have. The same excuses you run on Islam. I am here to show you your man made laws did nothing but destroying millions of people which you call it a bad mistake! and that devine reign of Allah will make sure no one make this kind of bad mistakes anymore
Bob,
Here are a couple of other things to add,
check out the article from the Washington Times:
"Textbook on Arabs removes bunder"
www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040416-120208-4455r
I posted the text of the story on the previous thread.
Also, Erik the Red, www.rosslytemplars.org.uk/America%20Discovered.htm
The Seneca Indians-www.nativeamericans.com/Seneca.hem
And about Ghengis Khan-www.allempires.com/empires/Mongol/.htm
To Mahmoud,
Don't quote history unless you know it, and as far as Native Americans are concerned, I'm 1/2 Cherokee, from the Southern tribe, from the reservation Cherokee in South Carolina.
Half of our family went on the Trail of Tears.
Yes, it was horrible, but our people live better than most of the rest of the American population, our traditions have held and NO WHERE, NO WAY would our people have EVER accepted Islam.
It is backward to our traditions.
Women are exalted and always have been, our beliefs come from nature and the natural world with balances in the order of the world.
Our children are taught to live in harmony with the animals and the world around us, not to destroy it.
The Canadian and American tribal councils are very upset over the hi-jacking of our history by Muslims.
Even in the article I posted, the woman that wrote this bit of trash, admitted that she didn't even know the written or oral history of the tribes.
You should check your facts out a little better, right now you just sound like a moron.
Media's VietNam
My family bought their first television in 1951 when I was 4 years old and I still remember the
excitement of having our first black & white TV. The television was an introduction into a world of fact, fiction.Life would never ever be the same again. Being a home viewer it gave you a feeling that you knew all of the TV and movie personalities, it felt like they were talking to you.
During the 1960's when the 5'0clock news came on, your local and trusted newsman informed you of all the rights and wrongs that were happening in the world. I did not realize the influence of the TV news media until the 1960's when I saw the powerful and disturbing images of the Vietnam War. I wasn't quite sure if the Vietnam War was a moral war, so I started watching my nightly news to learn more. Being a baby boomer I had only
read about other wars, but this was a war that was occurring in real time. Both print and TV
media didn't seem to think we should be in
Vietnam, so I assumed the media must be right,
they wouldn't come into my living room and lie. Would they?
I felt that I had to take a stand, and since my nightly trusted TV news anchor didn't approve
of this war, why should I? Suddenly, antiwar protests and demonstrations were happening
all across the nation. Before long, I went from a viewer to an active participate of the anti-war
movement, attending as many demonstrations that I could. We baby boomers were on a mission, we were sending powerful messages to our beloved troops that we were supporting them and we were going to bring them home, since our government wouldn't. Eventually the war ended and not because of the antiwar movement or government bashing but rather despite it.
As fate would have it, I met and married Malachy Joyce a soldier who served in Vietnam with the 101st Airborne. He received many medals for bravery and service to his country however, he did not discard his medals as meaningless pieces of junk as did President hopeful John Kerry.
Malachy didn't really speak much about his experiences in Vietnam and I never pressed the
issue. However, I did ask him how much it meant to him to have so many supporters who vigilantly protested the war trying to get him and the others home. Much to my surprise, he spoke in great detail about the " Media" and those "Jerks" that were protesting the war. Malachy felt betrayed by both. He strongly felt the media kept the nation polarized with their antiwar
sentiments. He was deeply hurt by the Media's skewed perception that all Vietnam Vets were "drug crazed" savages committing atrocities. Due to the continual negative press
about the Vietnam Vets, there weren't any parades to welcome them home when they touched American soil. Instead they were made to feel ashamed that they had participated in a war that the "Media" did not approve of.
My sweet brave soldier taught me a valuable
lesson about true patriotism that I practice today and it's rather quite simple; during a war a true American supports his President and Troops unconditionally.
Most recently the left wing media, the anti-war movement and the liberal democrats have referred to Iraq as the "New Vietnam" and for once I have to agree with them. They are discrediting our Government and our Brave Soldiers the same way they did in the 1960's. I learned a lesson from the VietNam why can't they?
Bette Anne Joyce
Proud American
Hundredpercenter
Mahmoud, I don't believe that you are critizicing America's past, and you are so blind to see the the lies in Islam's past and PRESENT.
I am here to show you your man made laws did nothing but destroying millions of people which you call it a bad mistake! and that devine reign of Allah will make sure no one make this kind of bad mistakes anymore
Posted by Mahmoud at May 26, 2004 03:19 PM
Hey Twinkie......You ought to take a gander into the world of those who follow Allah. Poverty, illness, lack of healthcare, rape, death and destruction.......A person WOULD have to be suicidal to follow the Islamic Cult......divine? divide is more like it.
Like in body parts. Mohammed was a madman. Who else knew of Allah but Mohammed? Any disciples? Any Apostles? I'm asking because I haven't heard any names other than his.
Could Allah be a figment of Mohammed's maniacal imagination?
Mr. Owens:
I have little interest in debating ancient history with people whose ignorance is exceeded only by their cultural chavinism. I am not a historian, but even I know enough to refute your absurd statement that "Muslims lacked the ship building technology to reach the North American continent." Have you ever heard of the Phoenicians? They long predated Islam, of course, but they were conquered by the Muslims in the 7th Century and it is ridiculous to assume that their knowledge was lost.
Phoenician ship wrecks dating to more than 2000 years ago have been discovered in North America and the Caribbean. Stone tablets have also been found there. The Phoenicians (the ancient "Cannanites") knew how to navigate by the stars and so were capable of making long voyages over the open ocean. They circumnavigated Africa and traded with India. (The earliest Indian language, Sanscrit, is derived from Phoenician.) There is little doubt that they reached China and crossed the Pacific to the Western shores of North and South America.
Some Phoenician ships were quite large, and biremes were commonly used. Julius Ceasar remarked that Roman vessels were tiny in comparison to Phoenician ships. At any rate, Thor Hyerdahl proved that trans-oceanic voyages were possible on reed rafts (the Kon Tiki, and others).
Do you believe that all this knowledge and experience was lost in historic times? That is absurd. An additional point that may be of interest is that 12th and 13th Century Chinese manuscripts state that Chinese explorers encountered Muslim Arabs on the West coast of North America.
I do not intend to write a treatise on this subject to attempt to dispell your ignorance. Here is one useful survey article; I'm sure that you can find more:
http://phoenicia.org/carthanewworld.html
Allahu akbar
hang em high
Who cares Reza? Your grandchildren will all be Non-Muslims. Muslims haven't defeated anything in a very long time. believe what you want, for you're skewed anyway.
You are losing, terrorist apologist. Islam's tail is being kicked all over their own sandbox. Renounce Islam and live in peace. Stop warring against the righteous and you will live in peace and happiness.
There are already hundreds of millions of Americans in America. Your civilization is finished. Your grandchildren will wear baseball hats, baggy jeans, and sleveless tees. They'll listen to Heavy metal music, ride in pimped out cars and bikes.
You've waltzed into America. Now America waits for the Islamic Cult to screw up again. Eyes are wide open and fixed on people just like you.
Mahmound,
One thing to point out about taking quotes out of context.
Barry Fell also said thier where "Druids in Vermont". This did not mean druids (which predate Mo) lived in Vermont. It means that the study of ancient man-made markings incised in stone, clay, wood, or bone, had druid like features. What you do not mention about Barry Fell is that he was an epigrapher, hope you know what that means.
Alexander von Wuthenau does nothing but assume thier is a connection between an moorish-looking artifact in what looks like a old man wearing a fez.
I pose a single question to any one of you. Why is that with this supposed muslim background no full blooded native American can not grow a beard?
The mullahs must be outraged
Mistated my question. Why is that a full blooded native American can not grow a beard?
Reza and Mahmuod,
I do agree that there was great ship builders going back thousands of years.
Had the great libraries of the past been destroyed many ancient maps would have shown their great travels. For instance the great Turkish map Piri Reis, that show the land mass under the ice of Antartica. Until 1954 it was considered a fake, but with radar it was proven to be precise.
But what in fact does this prove? These people that built these ships and traveled were not muslim or islamic. These people worshipped hundreds and thousands of gods, of which none of these were Allah. You cannot claim that a people that came from the middle east is muslim, nor can you say what they did was success of muslims. Remember the Isrealites are from the middle east. The Cyrus Cylinder that is from the land of Persia (and is also a statue at the UN) said all men were to be allowed to practise their religion with respect from the goverment and were to respect each religion.
Persia worshipped whatever religion the king had or allowed. Islam never existed until Mohammud in 600 AD.
Just because you crossed my front lawn does not make my house yours forever.
Additionally, just because I have been with your wife does not make her mine. Although she did say it was nice to finally be with a man.
Muhamed and Reza sitting in a tree
h i s s i n g
1st comes hate
next comes marrage
then comes suicide baby bomber in a baby carrage
scotty
Ah, Mahmoud, you cite sources almost as credible as Islam itself!
“To the academic establishment, however, Fell was a self-promoting pseudo-scientist (emphasis added) who threatened to undo more than a century of careful progress in archaeological and anthropological research. His critics charge that instead of observing protocols and rules of evidence required by traditional archaeology, Fell promoted esoteric claims to a non-specialist -- and therefore credulous -- audience.”
--The Atlantic, 01/2000
In addition to the claim you cite, Fell also believed that the Phoenicians made it to West Virginia in 1000 BC, the Celts were in Oklahoma, and the ancient Romans traded with Mexico. Need I say more?
Von Wuthenau gave an opinion that the carved heads were “Moorish looking” but that hardly qualifies as scientifically valid evidence.
Sertima does write compellingly about possible African contact in South America. So you’re still only off by a continent. However, he never said Muslims made the journey, just Africans.
So, you are adept enough to try and dance around the lies by presenting misdirection. Very clever, but impotent.
You still do not, and cannot, refute the two central points of these two specific Islamic lies.
Islamic countries never had ships capable of transatlantic crossings in the time frames you suggest;
It is scientifically impossible to place Muslims in North America, much less near the Seneca nation within the time frames you suggest.
You can dodge the issues and attempt misdirection, but you can’t face the fact that these are lies. The fact that you can’t admit the truth shames you more.
Poor mamoud
or perhaps I should call you abed?
Poor Reza, you are lettered and
can know better,
Too bad you can't stand
on the words of your false prophet
mo and his evil twin in the koran.
It's sad you have to use deceit
and rearrange history in a twisted feat
of il-logic to try to convince those whose
ancestors had nothing to do with the treatment
of the natives who lived here first. Like me.
the poetess of the Free, whose destiny is different this time. Can you understand poetry?
Major question, is Charles Mason the reincarnate of Mohammed. They do have so much in common.
Lust for killing, pedophilia, cult worship etc
Once again, Reza, you really should check out more than one source for your information.
Ancient Greek Civilizations-
www.mnsu,edu/emuseum/prehistory/aegean/thecultureofgreece/phoenician.html
The Phoenicians-
www.lebabon2000.com/ph.htm
The Phoenicians Who Gave Us Our Alphabet-
www.worldwideschool.org/libarary/books/youth/history/TheStoryofMankind/chap11.html
And this is the best site:
Phoenicia-
www.factindex.com/p/phphoenicia.html
Guess what? NO WHERE does it say they came to North America, it says they went to NORTH AFRICA.
And they pre-date Mohammad by HUNDREDS OF YEARS.
THEREFORE, THEY WERE NOT MUSLIM.
they were called Sidonians and they were a Semitic Tribe.
Reza, you made the claim that Muslims came to America, not I. Therefore the burden of proof is on you proving your point.
The fact that Phoenicians were great shipbuilders is agreed upon, but you never cite any evidence that Muslims were able to either copy their technologies in shipbuilding, or master blue water navigation, two factors necessary for transatlantic crossings. By all accounts, Phoenician shipbuilding, as well as their culture, died at Muslim hands.
Just a note for future Muslims: pillage, then burn!
I am aware of Thor Hyerdahl, and of his accomplishments. I am also quite aware he has never provided any evidence for, nor made the assertion of, Muslims crossing the Atlantic.
As I just said to Mahmound, you are using the traditional Islamic tactics of throwing up smokescreens and trying to change the subject. It will not work with me.
I did not ask you to prove that the Chinese made it to the West Coast.
I did not ask you to prove that Africans made it to South America.
I asked you to provide scientific evidence that Muslims had the capability to sail to North America. You have failed.
I asked you to explain how these same Muslims could have met and interfaced with the Seneca nation. Again, you have failed.
Don’t get angry or call me ignorant when I prove you wrong.
Just get used to it happening.
Owens vs. Reza- I vote for Owens.....By the way Reza, Italians invented Ice Cream, and the Chinese invented spaghetti.
This is just in case you decide to tell us that Muslims are to be credited for these two wonderful additions to the world.
Reza, your grandchildren will be American non-Muslims.
Aha! I see others got to the material before I could get back on the comp to research it myself.
See Mahmoud, that's the problem with your quoting things: We Can Check. The internet makes it easy to find out if the people you choose to quote are even someone worth bothering with.
Bad mistakes? All cultures have made bad mistakes. You just have to look at Russia to see one of the worst failures- and they killed a Hell of a lot more people in 70 years of Failure than....
Feh. What's the use? You are part of the biggest failed experiment in history. Of course you won't see what we are getting at here.
We Learned from those mistakes. You haven't. That's why we shall still be here (Sans PC thinking and thinkers) 50 years from now.
Who said this? Sorry not to give credit where it's due. (Was it DCWatson?)
"Reza ... all your grandchildren will be cabdrivers."
One day you will pay for following massacres:
So.... Stop bearing those false freedom and democracy masks. Your beastery civilization is exposed to us and Almighty Allah will not forget what you did to other nations to reach 21st century.
Mahmoud,
Thank you for the list of crimes committed against Native Americans by the government of the United States.
I want to add that this list is far from incomplete.
You seem to have skipped completely over the French and Indian War, where British, colonial and French forces exploited the Indians in what was essentially a European war of expansion. I guess “The Last of the Mohicans,” which was written about this time period, didn’t translate well to Farsi.
I also detect no mention of the practice of giving Native Americans smallpox contaminated blankets during trade as a form of early biological warfare.
You are correct in saying that Americans did some horrible things to Native Americans in the past. We also did horrible things to African-American slaves, and later, to free African-Americans as they sought equal rights.
You should also learn about a prison called Andersonville in the American Civil War.
We also had interment camps for Japanese-Americans during World War Two.
As Americans, we have done some truly horrible things.
But as an American, I have the freedom to talk about these mistakes. I have the right and the responsibility to combat these wrongs and change things so that they do not happen again, and I can do it with a ballot instead of a gun.
In fact, we have made quite a bit of progress in the relative blink of an eye that this country has existed. I note that to point out the worst atrocities in our nations past, you have to look into the history books.
To find the worst atrocities of Islam, I turn on a television.
Being in a democracy doesn’t mean that you are perfect, or impervious to mistakes. We makes mistakes, and lots of them. We commit atrocities, and we try to atone for them.
Muslims never admit the imperfections inherent to their systems. Muslims twist and turn and lie, but can never admit their failures.
That is why now, in this present day and age, we are a superpower. We learn. We adapt. We advance.
Muslims, trapped and unchanging in the seventh century, never learn. Never adapt. Never advance.
I sit here in an office working with Jews and Christians, Whites and Blacks, male and female. Working in harmony.
You sit in a third world desert slum, thinking of new ways to distort and mislead, never able to admit even simple, obvious lies, such as the lies that Muslims discovered and populated America.
You lack enough moral courage to think, “I was lied to.” You lack the ethics to say, “I was wrong.”
That is why our civilization does not fear being “exposed.”
And why your Islam hides from the simplest truths.
Reza & Mahmoud,
I've no interest at all in debating the past, especially the fever-swamp fantasies regarding islam in N. America prior to all the rest.
What I'm interested in is the here and now. And here and now this is where I stand:
I believe islam is inherently evil. I also believe mohammed was a demon-possessed pedophile.
I believe islam is incompatible with free will and democracy.
Because of those two beliefs, I know this: I will NEVER be a muslim, I will NEVER allow my government to become islamic, I will educate my children as to the evils of islam, and I will do everything in my power to organize and educate others in order to stymie the expansionist dreams of islam.
I also know that I am unafraid of any of you, and I'm quite certain I speak for any American patriot who has done any amount of research into islam. We are not Spain. If--in the absolute worst-case scenario--we are forced to fight you on our land, we will do it and islam will lose. Freedom is much more powerful than fantasies of a few demented sadists who hide behind a cloak of religion.
All of these current news stories about impending attacks do not scare me; they merely make me want to shout "Bring it on!" If we are to have a war of civilizations, let's do it and be done with it.
America will never be islamic.
Mahmoud,
I have been reading the posts here man and you are just proving everyone else right. We are not saying that the west has always been perfect and that our history is "unstained" and pure. What most rational Americans are saying is that a lot of modern Islam and Muslims use words and quotes from their religion to justify their acts of murder and suicide bombing and all that other crap that comes along with it. I am as sick as the next person from hearing all this stupid shit about Islam and Muslims being peaceful and kind and all that bullshit. Any person that can side with Osama "dickwad" bin Laden needs to have there head checked. I agree with some of the earlier posts about sending all the radical middle easterners to one place. Why not? If I hated Australia, I wouldn't be buying the next plane ticket there, so why should the minority of people who live in America stay here? Get the !@#$ out if you dont like it. We will never conform to Islam and be misled into killing ourselves and innocent poeple in the name of allah (notice the lower case letters) who is supposed to represent peace and love. Jesus Christ died on the cross for mankind, not allah. As far as your jihad and holy wars go, they are just masked behind your hatred toward the west that will never be fully justified. What the heck would Osama and all other radical Muslim Extremists do if they had to stop killing civilians? Must feel real good to spend your whole life hating and killing innocent people. Our ancestors may have slaughtered innocent people...but I have a feeling they were ignorant and didn't realize it, not because the where born and raised to hate and kill. Screw the middle east and there sick ways, showing pictures of 3 year olds holding bombs and guns and chanting Osama is proof they are sick. God bless the USA.
Bob-
Who needs ships when you have flying carpets?
Poetess-
nice to see your poems again
Quote: "I note that to point out the worst atrocities in our nations past, you have to look into the history books.
To find the worst atrocities of Islam, I turn on a television"
Nicely said Bob..
Mahmoud,
You are so intellectually outclassed here.
As I was reading Reza and Mahmoud's post, I was thinking about this article I had read awhile back and I think it applies here.
"Because of the Americans"
Jamie Glazov
Frontpagemagazine.com
Many of my conversations with Arab acquaintances about the recent war in Afghanistan have forced me to revisit an issue that always mystified me.
There is a consistent theme that I tend to hear from many Arabs: that the Americans are behind most-if not all-of the problems in the Middle East. Americans are even behind the problems that hurt their own interests.
I couldn't count how many Arab taxi drivers have explained to me that the Americans themselves orchestrated the 1979 Iranian Revolution, Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, and so on and so forth. The argument is always that the Americans control everything and that they create enemies- and their own misfortunes-to legitimize their imperialism and military build-up.
In my latest conversation with an Arab friend, it was explained to me that the Americans were themselves behind the Sept.11 tragedy.
As we have lately become aware, this mysterious fantasy has a large-scale popularity in the Arab world.
Why?
There are a few phenomena that we might want to consider in searching for some answers to this enigma.
While there is obviously diversity in the Arab world,Arabs do accept a certain general feelings about themselves. They see the world through the perspective of all Arabs being brothers-children of one single nation. And this is why Arabs strongly believe that there is such a thing as an Arab personality, which they call Shakhsiyya.
In "The Arab MInd", scholar Rapheal Patai demonstrates how the Arab language is much more based on its poetic and musical quality than on the valid use of past and present tenses-which are often mixed up. In the Arab culturre,therefore, there is a great appreciation of gesture, but not necessarily an emphasis on logic, or on the relationship between cause and effect. When learning to speak, Arab children quickly adopt the specific and popular stylistic devices known as Mubalagha(exaggeration) and tawkid(overassertion).
There is often confusion in Arab society over the difference between words and action. Saying that you are going to do something can often become much more significant than actually going it. Words serve as subsittutes for acts.
Muslim fatalism blends with this cultural trait. It stresses that it does not make sense for the Muslim to act in certain situations, since much is in "Allah"s will " anyway. As a result, there is often little motivation for Arabs to take action for change or to evaluate their own circumstances.
In addition to this, there is a general aversion to manual labor in the Arab world, particularly to the kind that involves dirtying one's hands. While the Protestant work ethic sees work as a good thing, the Middle Eastern ethic sees work as a curse and something that should be avoided. The Arabian Nights, for instance, includes many examples of this belief system.
The result is that many Arabs often do not end up feeling a sense of responsibility for their own failures.
To admit that a problem is one's own fault humiliation upon one's self and also shames the groups honor.
Thus, the obsession with avoiding shame cancels out the possibilty of truthful self-reflection and examination.
When a problem is confronted in the Arab world, a hidden enemy is often imagined. Consequently the inability of Arab countries to create democracies, let alone functional, economic and social societies, are read by many Arabs as a personal humiliations that are caused by enemies.
Many Arabs simply grow up believeing that succes in their societies is simply just supposed to materialize, even if no one is actually taking any individual intiative to bring it about.
If problems develope (i.e. economic backwardness, dictatorship etc), they are believed to be caused by enemies (i.e. the evil Americans).
The idea that problems can be solved by Arab individuals themselves, and that the citizens must actually participate in solving their own society"s problems, is an idea that is incomprehensible to significant portions of the Arab populations.
So, it's easier to claim the accomplishments of others than to do something for themselves.
Blame everyone else for your failed nations.
Susan B-
That really tells it all-
but the bottom line is their belief system.
To be submissive (Islam) is to have no power therefore no consequences of personal behavior beyond the dictates of prescription. Why else would you need to be told how to wipe your ass.
"So.... Stop bearing those false freedom and democracy masks. Your beastery civilization is exposed to us and Almighty Allah will not forget what you did to other nations to reach 21st century."
"Almighty Allah" Where was it when the jews kicked arab's asses at least four times during the second half of the last century?
Allah is a fake just as the whole Islam is.
So.... Stop bearing those false freedom and democracy masks. Your beastery civilization is exposed to us and Almighty Allah will not forget what you did to other nations to reach 21st century.
Posted by: Mahmoud at May 26, 2004 05:26 PM
Mahmoud; I'd be more than glad to list Muslim atrocities, but the site would most likely have to be temporarily shut down to add even more bandwidth.
The biggest mistake we've made thus far is allowing immigration from Middle Eastern countries. They broadcasted the pictures of seven Muslims and/or Muslim converts believed to be planning attacks on the U.S., Americans have been deputized......And if you haven't noticed, Americans love their guns.
This is bad news for you heroes.
Mamoud and Reza,
Can you please tell me what you are actually diving at? Because left for me, most of what you are talking about is history, which has little or no relevance to what the context of this subject is.
Mamoud, let me tell you I am a pure African, born into a traditional West African family, Trained at Ansarudeen islam schools, used to have muslims brothers and sisters before they got converted.
If you want to talk about history you should have started your own website of history rather than wasting time, space, and energy in plagarising other people's work.
Are you telling me that Islam is just? Let me tell you this simple fact, We have been victim of your lies before, and we've known the light now. All what you are saying about the American i.e. colonialism is rubbish to me because as for us in Africa, e.g West africa we still prefer the English law to the useless and wicked law you claim to be your allah's law(sharia) which is full of wickedness!
How much has Saudi government given as aid to african people to help poverty alleviation? I guess there isn't but the only money your headquater (saudi arabia )gives is to kill and buy guns to kill the alleged infidels in northern nigeria,Sudan and other african countries.
From our own point of view, Islam has never given anything productive to this world other than terrorism!
Talk about facts confronting the world and stop copying stories from the web!
The law you claim to be supreme has not only led to death in Northern Nigeria and Sudan, it has resulted into people who used to be friends/family to be killing each other.
Your law is associated with filth, ignorance and wickedness!
Personally, I dont see sense in all the rubbish you claim to be history that you are posting. FACE THE FACTS AND STOP PLAGIARIZING!
Do you know what we call what you've written to this web without giving reference, we call it CHEATING in Academics.
I guess that's what islam is all about, starting with lies and latter changing it to jihad!
I CAN TELL YOU THIS, YOU CAN NEVER DECEIVE US AGAIN WE DESPISE ISLAM AND ITS LAW TOTALLY!
Take for example, in Nigeria Usman Dan fodio the father of islam propagation in sub sahara, Do you know the number people he killed in the name of Jihad?
I guess you don't, because if you do you would have peacefully kept quite, because the atrocities he committed in propagating islam in subsahara is more than what you are claiming that the american did.
Even let's assume that the American killed the Indians in the past, however nowadays they are trying to correct the past. Have your people who killed millions of African during Jihad war in Sub sahara region ask for forgiveness from the African?
Mamoud, Reza, and other muslim people that have such views Be pure before condeming others !
MAMOUD HYPOCRISY DOES NOT PAY!
Are his followers realy Iraqi or are they From Iran? Remember when he started his sh-t was after they let all those people across the border??
Why Has Stanie not called for a fatawa and this punks head?? We Know he is a bully like saddam and a lot of other creeps that want every one to die for them, but when it comes to where the rubber meets the road they have no balls!! This seams to be all over the Muslum world.
The Iraqi people will have Freedom!
Now what they do with it is up to them . The Iraqi people have a Chance for Freedom. We Are giving them the chance to be great, an help feed the Mulsum world. Because they can not eat oil!
The American people are getting sick of being Kicked.
The Mulsum world better head the words of our President "what ever it takes" Americans will not live in FEAR or without FREEDOM. Americans will forgive ourselfs for what the terrorist make us do as our Grandparents did In WW2. We are not the sissys that ran away in vietnam like kerry!
We the American people have taken a stand and will not back down! the American people are not buying Qu-rans they are buying guns!!!
The Americans want Friends with Guns not sissys who hate America.
We the American People love this country with all her faults.
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Mahmoud:
What was Islam's rational for invading Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Algeria, Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad Ethiopia, Somalia -- not to mention the Middle East, Eastern Europe and Asia? Do you think that the indigenous "natives" of these countries welcomed Islam with open arms? Do you think that a small insignificant religion like Islam just passively "spread" out of the Arabian Peninsula because it was willingly wanted and excepted by others; only to be beaten back as Islam's light faded? Muslims and non-Muslims are still dying at the hands of "pure" Muslims.
How about when homosapiens first spread out of Africa 40,000 years ago. Where they Muslim? Why did Islam get such a late start in life? Doesn't this make Islam the new kid on the block. When will Islam go through its adolescence, i.e., its Reformation, its Enlightenment, and grow up to realize that the world is populated with a myriad of different beings living different realities? Or are you still dependant and clinging to the apron strings of Allah; having every moment of life ever programmed. That's really very rigid and compulsive and not allowing for true thought to develop and flourish.
Hubris, my dear Mahmoud, meditate on hubris, for it is destroying you as you now breath.
If "sleeper"terrorist cells are already here in the US,they are muslims,they most probably live in the muslim communities,amongst muslims friends and relatives,they go to mosques,they talk to imams,and there is no way,THERE IS NO WAY that nobody in these muslim communities does not know anything about it.
If muslims won`t stand up and inform authorities about this one,it means that they gave their tacit approval to the terrorists and their goal of killing us. If another attack happens,all muslim communities in the US should be held responsible and should face immediate and total deportation.
no martyrdom for Muqtada al-Sadr!
How sad that he would live and send others to die.
We should not stop at just eliminating these fanatics in foriegn lands because they are here in America waiting for their day to become a martyr. Deport them all and do it now before it's to late.
How hilarious that a religion which spreads by the sword (how else would it gain ground?) and promises to kill everyone who does not accept it should lecture America on its past mistakes.
The dead hand of islam has destroyed the civil socities, economies, and structure of the areas under its control. Therefore, it seeks to claim the successes of those who succeed because they are not muslims, as their own. You only have to look at Israel, a country 50 years old, to understand the negative effects of Islam on its host societies. Israel is an economically vibrant, socially conscious democracy. It produces goods and ideas which the rest of the world values. Israels muslim neighbors produce two things: oil and jihadis. And oil is a nonrenewable resource.
Islam is doomed.
yabba dabba akbar
I just came across this great little bit of information on Little Green Footballs, that will give everyone a nice little chill.
DANGEROUS CHEMICALS INTERCEPTED IN CANADA
//littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog?entry=11128_Dangerous_Chemicals_Intercepted_in_Canada
Canadian police arrested two Muslims driving an Illegal load of RED PHOSPHOUS, a chemical that can be used to generate PHOSPHENE GAS amoung other nefarious purposes and LET THEM GO!
It was a man and a woman, now aren't we looking for a woman on the newest list? and, just for giggles, she graduated from MIT.
OH, and to really make everyone double over, she recently bought several bullet proof vests.
Read the article, I can't believe they were let go, oh! the best part of this is, they were given a court date in July. Any bets on these two showing up?
NewsMax
Monday, May 24, 2004
Recently, entertainer Pat Boone wrote NewsMax editor Christopher Ruddy a letter regarding his feelings on Abu Ghraib and Iraq, the contents of which are published here with permission:
Mr. Christopher Ruddy
Editor, NewsMax
Dear Chris,
Hasn't anybody got the guts to accuse the worst perpetrator in this whole Abu Ghraib prison debacle - CBS and 60 Minutes II?
What do you call it when, in time of war, someone takes military intelligence and turns it over to the enemy, who in turn uses it to kill Americans?
Isn't that the definition of treason? Did Benedict Arnold do worse? Did Julias and Ethel Rosenberg pay with their lives for something like this?
It has already been well established, and CBS certainly knew, that the military announced to the press back in January that allegations had been made concerning treatment of prisoners and were being investigated.
In March there was another announcement that the allegations were still being investigated and certain service personnel at Abu Ghraib were relieved of their duties and might be court marshaled.
In other words, while America was fighting a war, the military had already taken the allegations seriously, were investigating them and were taking steps to correct the situation. In other words, it was being handled, and handled well.
These things happen in war on all sides, and though they are not excusable, they are kindergarten exercises compared to car bombs, ambushes, rocket launchings and dangling burning bodies over bridges - and this is what the interrogators at Abu Ghraib were trying to find ways to stop.
Freedom of the press is precious to us, but you can abuse any liberty and stretch it out of shape until it becomes license, and concerned citizens will call for limitations.
In this case, if CBS had really cared about the country, about our military, about doing the right thing, they would have taken these pictures, (which they had illegally) and asked the military and the Pentagon what was being done about the abuses (Although they most likely knew it, they would have been told that the matter was in hand and being taken care of).
Indeed, a general implored them not to publish the pictures because of what he knew would happen as a result.
CBS could have cared less.
In their mad competition for rating points, dollars, and seeing a great way to blast the President and the war effort in Iraq which they have continually denigrated and opposed, they broadcast they abhorrent pictures – and not just to the United States, BUT TO THE WORLD!
Knowing full well that we were walking a tight rope, trying to fight a war, quell disturbances and build a republic for Iraq in the midst of all the terrorist resistance, CBS published these abhorrent pictures knowing they would destroy completely our image and standing in the Muslim world.
And what about Osama bin Laden? What about the terrorists? What about America's image with all our allies around the world? And what about America's own self image and confidence in their leaders?
And what did the beheaders of Nick Berg say, just before they callously sawed his head off while he screamed, "This is in retaliation for what you Americans did to our people at Abu Ghraib!" And how did they know about these interrogation abuses?
Though poor Mr. Berg blames George Bush and Donald Rumsefld, it is incontrovertible that his son would be home with him right now had it not been for the publication of those pictures. Mr. Berg is pointing his finger in the wrong direction.
And as a direct result of CBS callous and patently unpatriotic action, America is suffering great loss of prestige around the world, and will for decades.
America has lost credibility with Muslims and the Arab world internationally, perhaps forever; and every American life is in far greater danger from terrorist reprisal, no matter who and where we are!
Freedom of the press is a cherished commodity, guaranteed by our Constitution. But freedoms, if they are to be maintained and to have the original meaning, must be treated with grave responsibility and restraint.
For me, CBS has become "the enemy within", and I hope never to watch the network again. I think most Americans ought to reflect on the results of their irresponsible and unpatriotic behavior and perhaps narrow their viewing options by one network. The next time America or Americans suffer at the hands of terrorists, thank CBS.
Pat Boone
PB:jsp
P.S. As of today, May 21St, you can add Brokaw, NBC and The Washington Post to the list. Have these media pariahs gone mad?! Who'll be next to fire at our own troops?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
That is it Canada is to be cut off
Part of the American Tribe
God bless the Usa and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Times like these Glad I went to getready.gov and know how to use Duct tape and my gun
Catherine,
The only thing I take issue with in this letter, is where he states that Nick Berg would be home if the pictures had not been published, they were going to kill him, no matter what.
But everything else in Pat Boone's letter is absolutely correct.
It sickens me the way the news outlets keep running this stuff over and over again, yet fail to really hit on the key issues.
I think this also fits in with the article Catherine posted:
The Words Of Samuel Adams
THE LIBERTIES OF OUR COUNTRY, THE FREEDOM OF OUR CIVIL CONSITIUTION, ARE WORTH DEFENDING AT ALL HAZARDS; AND IT IS OUR DUTY TO DEFEND THEM AGAINST ALL ATTACKS.
WE HAVE RECIEVED THEM AS A FAIR INHERITANCE FROM OUR WORTHY ANCESTORS: THEY PURCHASED THEM FOR US WITH TOIL AND DANGER AND EXPENSE OF TREASURE AND BLOOD, AND TRANSMITTED THEM TO US WITH CARE AND DILLIGENCE.
IT WILL BRING AN EVERLASTING MARK OF INFAMY ON THE PRESENT GENERATIONS, ENLIGHTENED AS IT IS, IF WE SHOULD SUFFER THEM TO BE WRESTED FROM US BY VIOLENCE WITHOUT STRUGGLE, OR TO BE CHEATED OUT OF THEM BY THE ARTIFICES OF FALSE AND DESIGNING MEN.
Something to think about.
Mr. Owens:
Thank you for admitting to the genocides you committed in native america. Can you tell me what exactly you did to "atone" these atrocities? did u gave their whole lands back? Do i see american states beeing evacuated by european opressors so it can be give back to native ameircan people? did you bring back their raped woman and children to life? Do you think money can buy anything? you give poor native indians some money and they are happy? Is this how you "atone" these atrocities? Is there any monument in america condeming these terribal mass murders commited by western heroes? Why should we believe your cry for freedom and democracy why we see your hands are in blood for centuries? when we see all the resources you saved are stolen and rubbed. That is why Arabs will never believe your imported democracy. You are living in an occupied land my friend, This land you are living doesn't belong to you, it's illegally and forcibly taken from native people living in that continent for thousends of years. You can not make this up in any way not with cursing Islam for million of years. We are What we are but you..... You are living in occupation, in a land that lays in blood of native american children and women who were killed in cold blood. This is really fateless.
If me and hundreds of my friends ( who are classed as the poor people of society in our country ) can see the astronomical and blaqtantly obvious threat , surely to god these highly educated people running things can see it . Islam speaks for itself , muslims believe that one day only muslims will walk the earth. Even Nostradamus forecast a hugh threat will come from the east (whether a premonition or just common observation the guy was right).These people are occupying our land and being awarded citizenship for their efforts THEY ARE INVADIND OUR COUNTRY!!!And at the same time laughing at the way Political correctness makes them untouchable.
Mahmoud,
I'd like to point out that the "systematic genocide of native americans" although atrocious in itself is in the past .The annihilation of all "infadels" is what the muslim race plan for the future of this world. So americans have to live with their ancestors mistakes, but they are not planning to force the rest of the world to become slaves to a ludicrous , brain-washing, primitive, babaric DEATH-CULT such as islam ( a cult that you have the nerve to call a religion ).
Mahmoud - And who "atones" for all the atrocities that are committed by Muslims throughout the ages in "the name of God," the greatest sin of all? Your monumental hypocrisy is typical of Islam.
Mahmoud,
What has islam done to atone for the genocide they committed in the early 19th century in Africa?
At least the Americans are trying to correct the past, instead your people are bent on killing more people in the name of religion!
If you think it is not true can you please prove me wrong!
Everyone:
I would humbly and respectfully suggest that we cease trying to talk sense to Mahmoud and Reza. They both repeat endlessly the same old nonsense and IT IS GETTING SO OLD. They are incapable of logical, reasoned and rational responses and just keep parroting mindlessly over and over again what their blood cult has taught them to say. Like errant children trying to get attention with negative behavior, I suggest we give them a "time out". Any response, no matter how logical, just generates a slightly altered regurgitation of their last post.
Their lack of critical thinking skills and reasoning ability IS annoying, but I don't think that we can teach them how to think at this point in their lives - they're hopeless. Can't we just stop swatting at these pesky flies buzzing around our heads and move on?
Mahmoud,
Before I start on the topic of oppression and submission, I will accept the absolute silence from both you and Reza on the shipbuilding/interbreeding issues as an admission of Islamic lies.
I know that Muslims cannot admit they are wrong, so the fact that you cannot support your contention is the closest I will get to an admission of guilt. I expect a similar change of topic on your part after I expose the fallacies of this weak argument as well.
Mahmoud said, ”Thank you for admitting to the genocides you committed in native America. Can you tell me what exactly you did to "atone" these atrocities? did u gave their whole lands back?”
Obviously, one can never fully atone for a crime as severe as attempted genocide. Americans, unlike Muslims, at least make the attempt. We have done several things to try to “make it up” to our Native Americans.
We have given them their lands back, at least in part. These lands are called reservations, and they are their own sovereign countries, with their own laws and governments, within the United States. Did you know that? You should. Your great Muslim/Seneca alliance holds title to three reservations in New York.
Oops, I forgot. You lied about Muslims being there, so how could you possibly have known?
While Native Americans are given their own sovereignty, they are still counted as American citizens and given all the rights and privileges thereof. They are our equals on every level, and on some levels, they are given rights non-Native Americans cannot have. They are not only allowed but encouraged to practice the beliefs of their forefathers so that we can learn from them and pass this knowledge to further generations. We respect their culture and want to see it survive.
Tell, me, what does Islam do with the civilizations it conquers? It loses their technologies, destroys their culture and makes their rights and welfare subservient to the antiquated laws of Islam. Please try to refute that point, if you dare.
You asked: “Is there any monument in america[sic] condemning[sic] these terribal[sic] mass murders commited[sic] by western heroes?”
As a matter of fact, YES.
See http://www.dickshovel.com/JansenPicts.html for one proposed physical monument. There was a Francis Jansen sculpture built to memorialize the Massacre at Wounded Knee. You know what? The Lakota did not want it. The world-renowned famous Crazy Horse Monument is another monument to Native Americans.
But there are other memorials.
We also “memorialize” things by writing down the history of what happened, and retelling the story to remind ourselves of what we have done, so that we do not repeat these mistakes in the future.
Islam, on the other hand, buries its crimes and refuses to see its wrongs. It buries them in graves, both shallow and mass, and dares not raise a self-critical eye to the hypocrisy of its existence. It lies to live, and lives to lie. Islam is not afraid of bullets, or war or death.
Just truth.
You further rant “Why should we believe your cry for freedom and democracy why we see your hands are in blood for centuries?”
Come ON. At least give yourself a sporting chance. Over three million people have been slaughtered, and 18 of 21 wars on this planet just since 1980 have been caused by Muslim expansionism.
You said “This land you are living doesn't belong to you, it's illegally and forcibly taken from native people living in that continent for thousands[sic] of years.” Ah, I see. The Phoenicians you cite earlier on this thread, they just peaceably gave up their lands and much more advanced culture to a bunch of violent illiterate Muslims? Do you want me to compile a list of peoples, cultures and countries that Muslims have destroyed in their blind, headlong rush into infamy? Somehow, I don't think so. Like roaches, the "truth" of Islam does not stand the light of day.
However, if it does make you feel better, Mahmoud, I can promise that we will not be “cursing Islam” in a million years.
In a hundred years Islam will be mentioned as a cautionary tale. In a thousand, it will be only a mistake for historians to brood over.
hopefully the same can be said for christanity and all other counter to scientific truth religions that people kill each other for in this world.. its time that we advanced pass 1000 years old religions
Joseph,
A correction please, Christianity is not a religion, christianity is a way of life, that fits irrespective of time and seasons!
Joseph,
Man, being an animal caught in vast empty void of a universe, will always turn to religion, and if not an existing one, a future one.
True, many have died for various religions, but Islam is the only one currently going that says you must convert or die.
Stuff it Mahmoud-
"In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue" . . . and made the first contact with the "Indians." For Native Americans, the world after 1492 would never be the same. This date marked the beginning of the long road of persecution and genocide of Native Americans, our indigenous people. Genocide was an important cause of the decline for many tribes."
If it wasn't for the white man coming to this continent and doing all that he has done, we'd still be running around in loincloths spearing our dinners and using leaves to wipe our behinds.
Native Americans have benefitted from this so called 'genocide' that you piss and moan about, so again I say to you- stuff it Mahmoud, you sound like one of those elitist liberals that, by the way, live quite comfotably in America also because 'Columbus sailed the ocean blue'..
Oh my good God, Mahmoud, you are a real classic piece of twisted muslim work! I can't believe you said this! LOL! Please share some more of your abject ignorance and deceit with us! It's good for laughs!
"That is why Arabs will never believe your imported democracy."
If that be the case Mamo, then round up all your arab friends that are importing themselves INTO our democracy, hop up on your camels and head back to the middle east.