Lajolo
The Vatican foreign minister thinks that the prisoner abuse scandal was worse than the wanton murder of 3,000 people. Maybe Dan Schutte or the St. Louis Jesuits can whip out a new guitar hymn called "Moral Myopia" for this Sunday's Masses. From AP, with thanks to LGF:
ROME - The scandal of prisoner abuses by U.S. soldiers in Iraq has dealt a bigger blow to the United States than the Sept. 11 attacks, the Vatican foreign minister told an Italian newspaper.In an interview published Wednesday in the Rome daily La Repubblica, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo described the abuses as "a tragic episode in the relationship with Islam" and said the scandal would fuel hatred for the West and for Christianity.
Hmm. Does Archbishop Lajolo have anything to say about the jihads against Christians in Indonesia, the Philippines, Nigeria, and elsewhere? Are they not tragic episodes in the relationship with Islam? To say nothing of 9/11 itself.
"The torture? A more serious blow to the United States than Sept. 11. Except that the blow was not inflicted by terrorists but by Americans against themselves," Lajolo was quoted as saying in La Repubblica.Lajolo said that "intelligent people in Arab countries understand that in a democracy such episodes are not hidden and are punished ... Still the vast mass of people -- under the influence of Arab media -- cannot but feel aversion and hate for the West growing inside themselves."
And, he added, "the West is often identified with Christianity."
The remarks were not the first by Lajolo on the abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. In the wake of the scandal, he had said that a democracy should punish those responsible and their direct superiors.
The Vatican paper, L'Osservatore Romano, has also run some harsh comments in the past days. On Monday, it criticized what it called a Pentagon cover-up and took sharp aim at the photograph of a soldier holding a prisoner by a leash.
I haven't been following L'Osservatore. Does anyone know what it has reported about the jihads against Christians mentioned above, and others?
Why is it that people like this are given such a high profile? this grub is no different than the apologist for the BEAST and his cult of islam.
Perhaps this grub shold lead the the Coalition troops in Iraq from the front, into every engagement and see how far he gets with his insane beliefs, before the mongrels he has such an affinity with chop off HIS head or blow HIM into a thousand pieces,but no his kind are only the TALKING kind the people he HATES more than SATANS servants are the people who ACTUALLY have the GUTS to FIGHT AND SLAY SATANS FOLLOWERS.
Rather than hide in a far away land dressed in some anachronistic garb that is about as relevant to mankind as is his views on law and order.......... spend you time on considering what YOU are going to do should YOUR friends in islam achieve the ascendency over the people you are so critical of........so like, who will protect YOUR ASS? you dumb shit.
Kevin.
Here is a link to a PDF file in L'Osservatore Romano, English version. I have only just begun reading in it, having first searched the file (one of Two) for the term 'Jihad.' Granted this is just One term to search for but the First mention of Jihad in this file is on page 369.
I just hope what this guy (above) is saying, is Not what the Pope believes. But there is no way to tell if the Pope has any say over this- Just as President Bush has no say over the mainstream media.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/documents/acta6(4of4).pdf
Now when Catholics (and mainline denominations, for that matter) wonder why their pews are empty, men like this are the reason why.
Guys, the PDF file I listed above is proving Interesting reading. Apparently at least One person at the Vatican has done his historical research. Now if we could just get Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo to read it...
9/11 spawned much of this. My opinion of world opinion of us is that I don't care what anyone thinks of us. The prisoners in Iraq are there for a reason. Was Nick Berg treated with dignity and respect?
We are better than them, we didn't behead anyone, and the world should be happy with that. What we did in that prison wasn't right, but let's move forward, this is a war, and people need to remember that.
The vatican says that the photos of "abused" prisoners are a HUGE scandal...however priests diddling alterboys is just a mere lapse in judgement, they acted extremely slowly on THAT issue...the pope and his vatican lost all credibility.
No kidding. The vatican has lost all credibility.
They would rather offer their neck and kiss the hand that want's to behead them.
Who does the vatican think will defend them when those Islamic devils come to the gates? the swiss guard or the National Guard?
Satan has entered the vatican. It was evident when the Pope kissed the Koran and called it a "holy book"
And yes, I used to be a Catholic, No longer does that church represent christianity however. Their pews will remain empty of the thinking Christian.
I no longer attend the Catholic church either, there may be a small chance for the vatican, I mean the current pope is already dead (have you seen him lately being pushed around on a staircase)its just no one has gathered the courage to tell him yet, perhaps when a new pope is chosen he will be better able to deal with the evil that has come forth.
This is the very reason why Catholic churches and cathedrals will become mosques throughout the EU!
jihan
Nathan:
If you feel so inclined, could you please pop over to the "The Beheading of an Innocent" thread and deal with Hala and Waleed? I can't quote the Qu'ran chapter and verse like you can, and they don't respond to rational arguments.
The Vatican continues to dialogue with the Islamic World contrary to what people believe. There is a committee of Vatican and muslims religious figures that meet regularly twice a year to discuss relations between Muslims and Christians.
Though the name of the Cardinal escapes me, a representative from the Vatican was invited by the President of Iran, Khatami, to speak to a symposium of Shiite clergy last year. He was asked to present the Christian Faith and explain it's precepts. In that part of the Islamic world, they recognize the Catholic Church as representing Christianityl.
When it comes to the Catholic Church, there is a thread of "Damned if it does and damned if it doesn't" attitude. Though we may not be hearing what we would like to hear from the Pope, it does not mean that back channels are not being used to voice objection to the persecution of Christian. Diplomacy is practiced in many ways.
As for the Church not representing Christianity, unless Christianity no longer means feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, caring for the poor and sick, standing up for the dignity of the unborn and the aged, then the Catholic Church represents Christianity.
As for the Pope being dead, i.e. he has Parkinson's disease, then we might as well get rid of Stephen Hawkins. If you don't know who he is, he is confined to a wheelchair and speaks through a computer using a pointer in his mouth to type the words on a keyboard. He also happens to have held the Issac Newton Chair at Oxford in Science and Mathematics. He is the foremost Astrophysicist of our time.
People flock to see the Pope at Easter and Christmas and other times of the year to hear Christ's message of Peace, Love and Forgiveness. Does having an intact body make the message any less important. The last time I read the Bible, it seemed that God usually used those people that others rejected because they didn't "fit."
Just an FYI Robert, my mother sang with Bob Dufford S.J. of the St. Louis Jesuits.
If you would like to discuss further the subject of the Catholic Church or the Pope, please feel free to contact me.
John
Well said, John.
The problem is the Church bureaucracy. It has been isolated so long that it no longer can relate to the "real world." Institutional Decay is in full effect. Hopefully a new Pope can fix up the institution and repair damage done to it by people such as this.
What do you expect the Vatican to do?
Thousands of christian Churches have already been destroyed.
Catholics are being slain in the philipines and in Africa.
Churches in the holy land risk being turned into Mosques etc etc etc.
they no longer have armies of crusaders to defend them.
Catholics are desering in droves over the paedophile scandals.
Catholics are becoming DINKS in europe and soon the bidth of Muslim kids will outnumber the birth of RCs in Italy france holland et al.
The RCs are just one small step in front of the protestants in their ultimate demise.
I am an agnostic and used to be very anti catholic but i am now changing my views.
THe Vatican knows better than anyone the threat of Islamic dominance. They have been fighting them for 1500 years !
Like the ebglish foreign office they have worked out that appeasement is what works in their best interest.
We may find that despicable but how else can they stop the slaughter of their faithfull ?
We DO NEED religion in our communities to resist the Islamic takeover of our civilisation.
Yeah the pope is a swell guy...got right on the abuse of innocent young boys didnt he. Tell those boys who have to live with the horror of what men that they trusted did to them how wonderful the pope is...the vatican tried to cover up the sex abuse, who is the head of the vatican?...the pope.
USAGIRL
the catholic church is immoral in the conventional sense of the word
The Cover up of the peadophile scandals in the USA in Ireland , In the UK, etcetc.
THe coopereation in the extermination of Jews with the Nazis and the escape of Nazi butchers to South America in the early fifties,
The slaughter of millions of indigens in South america
The horror of the Spanish inquisitions
And too many other sins to list here.
They believe of course that sinners can repent and gain back their morality.
In spite of all the horrors , they have been a major force in keeping at bay an even greater horror .... the Conversion of western civilisation to Sh'aria law.
its a question of one evil keeping a greater evil at bay.
USA GIRL
forgot to mention this
How many Roman Catholics convert to Islam as compared to secular westerners.
I do not know the answer but i would suggest that the percentage is far lower.
Dear USAgirl,
The sexual abuse scandal is primarily confined to the United States. The Pope is responsible for leading the entire Church not just in the US. Though the sexual abuse scandal is a terrible tragedy, there are other problems that must be dealt with as well. The scandal is being dealth with at the Vatican. It called for tougher guidelines that the US Conference of Bishops submitted for review to deal with the scandal.
What exactly should the Pope have done? His pontificate has lasted almost 25 years. Some of these abuses occured before he was elected. The scope of the scandal did not come to light until a year ago or more.
The people to blame are the bishops of the dioceses that knew this was going on and merely shuffled these priests from parish to parish. Granted, the psychological recommendations in the 60's and 70's was that these persons could be counseled and then put back into parish life.
However, when it continued into the 80's and 90's, a red flag should have gone up. Counseling doesn't work most of the time. These people have to be separated from children, permamently.
The US Conference of Bishops has the responsibility of dealing with this tragedy and rightly so because it was bishops in the past who miserably failed those abused by not removing them when the abuse continued.
As a practicing Catholic, I am appauled that this happened. I believe these priests should be incarcerated for their crimes and defrocked, which is happening. The USCB is implementing guidelines and making changes at the seminary level so that this does not happen again.
John
Can one of you tell me of a church without sin where we can go to worship with other perfect people? Until then, I will stay with the church that was founded by the one who Christ called Satan and who denied Christ 3 times. The church that has consistently taught the truth for 2000 years has always been full of sinners, but I have hope in it because Christ Himself said the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
John -
When you say this problem is mainly in the US, I would say it is only because of our laws and attitudes that it has primarily shown up in the US. You can bet when you have people such as your foreign minister Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo in power that this is probably more prevalent in European churches than it is here. It just get covered up there due to the fear created by men of this caliber. He obviosly has a problem when it comes to making moral decisions. When you see stupid statements being made by men in your leadership that have no rationality to them I can see why the catholic church is dying.
as a catholic, the priest have little to say these days, especcially after the child abuse by priests in the church. it is of little value what the priests of the vatican say, they are indeed trying to save their own asses. if anything, the vatican, can and will be taken over my the muslim islamic, but not as long as i have a breath in me, will they take over the united states.
I was appalled that the bishop in Rome had the nerve to state that the prisoner abuse in Iraq was worst the 9/11 (I do feel very strongly that it should have never happened) but
were does he get off
I was born in Germany in 1939 when Pope Pius the 12 signed a Concordat with HITLER of course we all know what happened then and to this day i am very grateful to the Americans when they come in 1945 and liberated us
So much that when i was old enough i left Germany and immigrated to the US and yes became a soldier in the U S Army
America did never do anything other then trying to help the people of the world. I have a hint for the bishop I am a practicing catholic and dont want to blow my horn
Even so i have would have many good reasons when i was abused by priest and my parents i cried but my solution was to pray for them
When i learned how miserable the priests and nuns abused children all over the world again i prayed for the victims and the abusers
When i learned all what the Vatican did and did not do about Hitler and Mussolini again i prayed for all concerned
I always supported my churches financially and helped many people that way.
So i suggest to the bishop rather then blasting the Americans out of his pompous lifestyle supported by people like me to start with a mea culpa and pray for all concerned
I promise i will pray for him but also will never again support Rome with my finances i rather give it to the salvation army here in the states were i know it truly will help the poor
Very truly yours
Dieter H Wingen