Voting irregularities and outright fraud could cast Thursday's European elections into doubt. Why? "A cultural problem." It seems that Muslim leaders were dictating the way Muslims could vote -- yet another symptom of the cultural disjunction between Muslim immigrants and their new Western homelands. The group identity of the Islamic world doesn't translate well to a "one-man, one-vote" context. Yet everyone is too afraid of "racism" charges to address problems like this. From The Telegraph, with thanks to Foehammer:
Ann Cryer, Labour MP for Keighley, West Yorks, feared that the majority of the ballot frauds were part of "a cultural problem" that faced Asians in the North.She said Muslims were coming under pressure from community elders to surrender their votes.
"People are going to homes, demanding that the voters give up their ballot papers - and that is what they are doing." She said the Asian community "tends to stick together" and, if one of its leaders knocked at the door and asked people to do something, "they by and large do it".
She said: "It is the sort of thing I was anxious about in the early stages of getting the Bill through to have an all-postal ballot. But I did not dare mention it because you are accused then of being a racist. But the chickens are coming home to roost."
It would be no surprise if the election results were challenged in the courts, she said.
What's an all postal ballot? And why would that translate into fraud. I might be a bit slow on the uptake on this one, but can someone explain it to me a bit better?
Sharon
The ONLY way to vote in Thursdays' elections in certain areas of Britain was to complete the ballot paper that had previously been sent to them and then post it back in good time.
The implication,I think,is that the ballot papers could have been collected to ensure that the 'right' people got all the votes.
So much for secret ballot and democracy
Muslims shouldn't be allowed to vote in the UK. After all, it's against their cult. That will solve the problem. If they renounce their cult, and be a member in good standing of a Christian church, say for 5 years, then they can earn the right to vote. Make those who refuse pay a high
Jizya tax. After all, this is done in Islamic countries, so I'm sure the UN wouldn't have any objections to it. They don't object to it in Islamic countries.
"Vote early; vote often"
Another problem with this system is that it
requires a witness to sign the completed ballot
paper. This is no longer a secret ballot.
A lot of people over here in the U.K are very
angry not only about the system but how it
was intoduced.
It is the duty of citizens to become informed and to vote. However, voters should vote in the best interest of the country.
How will Muslims vote? Will their choices reflect what is best for a pluralistic community, or will they vote on issues so as to promote Islam although the majority of the community is not Islamic? I fear that Muslims will not take that fact into account, but will "vote as directed by cleric edict, the fatwa."
Why don't the British just leave the Island and spare themselves this slow, cultural suicide. Perhps we could give Celts, Welsh and Scots cultural asylum in the United States.
Sheesh!!! Argh!!! Eye Roll!!!
That's outrageous. The only way that people can use postal ballots in Australia, is if they are sick or invalids and cannot get to a polling booth. Otherwise, they must use the secret ballot at the polling booth.
I can't understand the mentality of something like this. The secret ballot is one of the most treasured parts of democracy. Without it, there is large scale fraud. Who brought this in and why?
To all those who are worried about postal votes:
Michael... The postal votes are still secret, the voting slip goes in one envelope before the witness witnesses a second sheet the voter signs. Both (envelope one and signed sheet) have the same barcode, unique for each voter, these then go into a second evelope and get posted.
Sharon... Postal voting in the UK is new thing and personally I think it's a great idea. What's the big deal about wasting time going to a voting booth to put a tick on a bit of paper when you can put a tick on a bit of paper at home?
As for the Muslims influencing the vote in Keighley by mass voting, I'm intrigued how ths would work, the were only two Pakistani candidates standing in the local elections I believe and they were both labour party members. I don't know if they got in, but I do know that the BNP (extreme right-wing) did gain two surprise seats in the local council, could it be the Muslims voted the BNP in to stir up trouble?
Finally, I'm a little bemused about how much press Keighley (pronounced Keith-lee) is getting on this board, it's a very small town in the wilds of the Yorkshire Pennines. The rescent article about Pakistani men grooming young white girls was also in Keighley. When Blake wrote about building "Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land" I don't think he realised that it would turn out to be like the real Jerusalem and full of malevolent Muslims.
By showing up at a polling station in person, the scrutineers and election officials get the opportunity to compare ID with the Voter's List and stroke off the voters name, making it extremely difficult for fraudulent voting. There is also little chance of influencing someone's vote once they're in the polling station.
The postal vote as a generally applied policy sounds like a beancounters bright idea.
The most shocking thing about the elections was the apathy.
In London there were three elections on the same day, for the mayor, the Greater London Assembly and the European Parliament.
Taking just the European election, there were some very important, wide-ranging issues at stake. For example whether to keep our own pound or change to the Euro, whether to adopt a European constitution or able to have our own laws, whether we want to keep the UK as one nation or have it split into nine, and how much immigration and asylum there should be in an already overcrowded land.
One might think that people would want a say in which direction we are to take at such a crucial time.
However when I got the the polling station some 45 minutes before closing I noticed that fewer than 20% of others in my street had voted. When I returned home five minutes later, I kept a look out to see if anyone left their house, but no one did.
If people are so uncaring about their children's future, what hope do we have?
Tziona - As to how mass voting by Muslims could influence the election, as the article said, if mullahs go round the Muslim neighbourhoods and demand that people surrender their voting papers, the Muslims, who aren't quite up to speed on democracy, would do so. The mullahs will then take tens of thousands of ballot papers back to their mosques or whatever, and put an x next to the preferred Islamic candidates.
DaninVan: In the UK we don't have ID cards and to vote at a polling station you don't have to prove your identity - just produce your voting card (which has been sent to you in the post). That too is open to fraud - everything is open to fraud if the fraudsters are determined enough. Local and European elections always get a low turnout in the UK, only 20-30% bother to vote, the postal voting has about doubled that. And no running the gauntlet between party faithful on your way in to vote, ot pollsters on your way out. I'm a big supported of postal votes.
Verity: Theoretically, yes they could take tens of thousands of ballot papers from the muslim-public and commit massive fraud, but practically to do so would require a massive logistical effort and would be very difficult to hide. What is really being discussed here is a few clerics and their thugs taking a few hundred voting slips, more as an exercise in domination of their congregations than any real attempt to affect the outcome of the elections.
They should do like they do here in Oz. Mandatory voting. At least 95% of people show up. You can scribble all over your ballot if you so wish, or cross out "john howard" and write in "skippy the kangaroo" if you feel stroppy. But either way, at least people get out and vote. The best thing is, if you pick your polling stations right, there'll be some fundraising group holding a sausage sizzle out front. Some of the more posh areas even have steak. $2 for a sausage and onions on bread or a bun. Stand around and chin wag with other voters. It's all a good time. For Muslims, you could have chicken or lamb sausages. This postal ballot stuff sounds far too suspicious to me, far too open to corruption and fraud, and not nearly as much fun. People are just getting too lazy. Next there'll be voting by SMS, and we'll be truly gone to the dogs then.
Tzioni; I'm posting from Canada. Our biggest problem here is innaccurate Voter's Lists. They're supposed to update them by physically going around to every residence and interviewing at least one of the occupants and confirming the names of the rest of the eligble voters...but that's expensive, right?
That's insane that a person can be issued a ballot without proving his/her identity. It puts the whole process at risk .
THE ASIAN PROBLEM
To dammed right its a problem.
The beasts (moslems who are pak/banladeshi/afghan/arab) are totally ignorant of democracy their ar$e of a prophet was their role model and he did not believe in democracy.
Remember the article in the Sunday times recently by an islamic philospher that "islam & Democracy were incompatible ? I did post it on this site somewhere.
Why do people of Indian origin not have a problem with democracy ?
Its the religion of islam that is the problem.
"What is really being discussed here is a few clerics and their thugs taking a few hundred voting slips, more as an exercise in domination of their congregations than any real attempt to affect the outcome of the elections."
Oh, well, then that's all right.
DaninVan
You are only given a ballot paper in the UK if you are on what's called the 'Voters Roll'
To get on that usually means proving to the council/authorities your address (with utility bills, drivers licence etc)
Requests for updated details are regularly sent out.
I wish I shared Tziona's relaxed opion on what and why it has happened but I fear he/she is much mistaken.
The areas selected for postal voting were known for a considerable time.
The fraud stories initially caused a stir here in the UK but, I feel, because of PC they have been snuffed out.
It could also be noted that for a great many people the walk to post their ballot forms is as long if not longer than the walk to a polling station.
If you are intimidated by a couple of smiling people waving their party's flags as you enter then you should, perhaps, consider life in an institution
In the UK, USA, or Canada a non-profit organization cannot endorse one individual without losing thier non-profit status.
What the mosques are doing is in direct violation of this non-profit status. No one is saying a thing. Now, if a Christian church came out and endorsed someone.....oh, you know what would happen. We are living in a time of double standards.
just another example that islam and democracy dont coexist
they cant think for themselves, they need to be told , they are quite simple minded
It is unwise to pressure or encourage recent immigrants to vote at all.
History is repleat with political machines getting around the rules to control the vote. Ignorant immigrants always figure huge in such schemes.
As a rule first generation immigrants, where English is a second language, are certifiably unknowledgeable in politics.
British, Canadian or American political history and culture cannot be assimilated in one generation. It just does not happen.
I have witnessed up close Japanese Americans of the third generation having a hard time reconciling their ancestor culture with America. Not surprisingly, they vote as a political block -- and have created an enduring one party state: Hawaii.
Likewise, Cubans, Mexicans et. al. are virtually one party voting blocks...not much of a contribution to ( small d ) democracy.
All of these immigrants are enfranchised ASAP due to strong partisan sponsorship.
Whatever is going on in Britain is driven by this time honored impetus.
Anything that accelerates immigrant voting favors block voting, favors machine politics at its worst.
Forget about the techincalities...Study history...
True independent voting only comes when voter is not targetable as a homogeneous block. And that normally takes generations.
It does not matter if the direction is provided from the pulpit, the shop steward, or the translator....Helping the voter is no help to a society or nation.