Common sense and clear thinking from Spengler in Asia Times (thanks to rickb):
Western polemicists felt at home on the moral high ground against communism, along with president Reagan. But they are tongue-tied before radical Islam, fearing to offend a religion with more than a billion adherents. Inadvertently they give credibility to the radicals. It is difficult to assess what proportion of today's Muslims are "radicals", because neither the world's Muslims nor the West has a clear definition of what is radical and what is not. Vitriolic sermonizing is so commonplace under the eyes of "moderate" regimes, for example Hosni Mubarak's Egypt, that the label of "radical Islam" has worn thin.In reality, the West sooner or later will have to draw a bright line between "radicals" and "moderates". Under the circumstances there can be nothing in between. Islam's encounter with the West leaves room for nothing but radical jihadists on the one hand, or radical reformers. Islam is expansionist by construction and political by its original design. It is a fact of history that jihad, by which I mean specifically the propagation of the faith by violence, is a mainstream tradition. Even communal prayer in Islam has at its center the alignment of the individual believer to jihad (Does Islam have a prayer?, May 18). ...
The problem actually is quite simple. To advocate jihad today is the hallmark of the radical Islamist, and it is there that the West must draw a line in the sand. But to repudiate jihad in turn implies radical revision of the religion's mainstream, and that is the hallmark of the radical reformer.
Like other religions, Islam has reached a point in world history - or rather world history has caught up with Islam - such that it must undergo a fundamental change. By way of comparison, the Catholic Church accepts separation of church and state as well as religious tolerance, but it did so only after the likes of Count Camillo Benso Cavour in Italy stripped the papacy of temporal rule over anything but the square mile of the Vatican City. ...
Enemy is radical Islam
In short, the West must give the Islamic world a clear choice as to who is with it, and who is against it - words that President Bush has used but with muddled meaning. That would change the character of the intelligence war utterly. It may be harder to define who is friend and foe today than it was in 1981, but by the same token, it will be far easier to tell friend from foe once the West carves its criteria in stone. ...
If Washington were to make repudiation of jihad a condition for friendship with the United States, the demand would have unpredictable and destabilizing consequences for the Islamic world. Just as the race of Sovietologists viewed Reagan's determination to destabilize the Soviet Empire with horror, the whole profession of Mideast studies would rear up in horror against such a stance. But wars are won by ignoring the fat and complacent commanders of garrison troops, and forcing the burden of uncertainty on to the other side (Ronald Reagan's creative destruction, June 8). Decisive intelligence stems from destabilization of the opposing side, through defections and similar events.
Bravo.
Spangler's points are well taken. Until the US repudiates jihadism-the core of Islamism- by both words and deeds, the vast bulk of ignorant adherants will not be freed from being cowed into "submission," by the fundamentalists. Forget the radical labels that the White House and the press have put on an alleged small fraction of adherants of Islam. Some estimates that small fractions still amounts to more than 100 million + plus of the estimated 1.2 billion adherants in the world. Reformists within islam are trivialized by fundamentalist clerics as being heretical and "not Muslims." The Sufis with its blend of central asian ploytheistic threads and concentration on meditation and the beseiged Alhamaddiya messianic sect have been subject to legal prohibitions as is the case of the latter in Pakistan. Until the ideological and physical icons of the death cult at the core of fundamentalist Islam are destroyed or over turned at the least, only then will jihadism be vanquished. But, until those defining events occur, then as my good friend, Dr. Richard Rubenstein, theologian and author of "The Cunning of History" has said: " the 21st century will witness a seemingly unending series of wars of religion." So, yes, bravo to Spangler, but we need to figure out how we foster those defining events leading to a complete revolution in the core beliefs of Islam, or its replacement with doctrines that are clearly more humane that value life rather than death.
Even if Muslism did repudiate Jihad, then what would that prove? Muslims can lie, and say whatever they need to say to get non-muslims to trust them. Islam itself is rotten to the core. It's Islam itself which has to go.
Spengler is actually being quite optimistic here. He suggests that Islam can and will eventually be reformed. Well, what if it neither can nor will be reformed? What do we do then?
It is indeed amazing that the unbelivers presume not only to define Islam, but also prescribe changes ("reforms") to Allah's (swt) commands. Just how do you imagine that you will impose your will on the ummah? There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. There are millions of Muslims in every Western country, including some 7 million in the United States. Do you imagine that they will submit supinely to your aggressions? It is impossible for you even to identify most of the Muslims in your countries, much less to imprison or exile them.
You must understand that Islam is truth and that it will supplant all of the abrogated and polytheistic religions. Islam is much more than a religion - it is nothing less than Allah's (swt) complete way of life for all mankind.
You cannot forever resist the will of Allah (swt). Stop your futile waring against Almighty Allah (swt). Stop oppressing Muslims and affronting their dignity and honor. The Islamic Caliphate will soon encompass the Earth, and all corrupt and unjust man-made law will be replaced by Allah's (swt) holy Sharia (Islamic law). The world will then know true peace and freedom. Why do you fear the inevitable triumph of Allah's (swt) holy will?
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Allahu akbar
Reza~ I am reminded of a scene from 'Starship Troopers.' The soldier holding up a tac nuke to the Insect and going 'Boom!'
Starting to get the idea?
'Your toilets will all be set facing Mecca.'
Islam is much more than a religion - it is nothing less than Allah's (swt) complete way of life for all mankind.
Posted by Reza at June 15, 2004 08:11 AM
You little toad. Allah's sweat has nothing to do with this, other than his name being at the top of this barbaric cult called Islam. Raisin, you and Twinkie and others like you have shamed the Islamic Religion. It is nothing more than a cult now, that promotes the killing of Non-Muslims.
You will all surely die in this fool's errand that the drunken prophet Mohammed has sent you on. Speaking of resisting Allah's sweat, did you not know that over 17,000 Iraqi fighters who opposed the Coalition are now.....um.......DEAD!
I suppose in that peanut sized brain of yours, they were all innocent. Raisin, I pray to God, someday I run into you. I would like to do a comparison of the size of my hand, as it pertains to the size of your throat. LOL
A discussion of the subject here:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1987
A good discussion forum is also here:
http://www.secularislam.org/discussion35/Default.htm
Reza - You have posed a very interesting question. "Do you imagine that they will submit supinely to your aggressions? It is impossible for you even to identify most of the Muslims in your countries, much less to imprison or exile them."
I, then pose this question. Do you imagine that non-Muslim Americans will "submit supinely to your aggeessions? I think not, and I imagine that solution, unfortunately for you, will not be either exile nor imprisonment. We have noticed what "Muslim aggression" has done in other Western countries and we will not allow that to happen here.
Hey Reza, check out this quote by the French baron responsible for the separation of powers that gives YOU the right to express your pathetic delusions:
"It is a misfortune for human nature when a religion is granted by a conquerer. The Mahometan religion, which refers only to the sword, is more likely to motivate those with the same destructive spirit that founded it."
Charles-Louis de Secondat, Baron de Montesqieu (1689-1755)
(source: http://www.nojihad.com/historicquotes.htm)
"Are you, or have you ever been, a muslim, and if so what kind (tick)"
This question is going to have to be put, even if the historical echos are unwelcome. And there had better be some reaction to the answer. More often than not, it should be a straight "NO".
On the idea of reforming Islam,I think Reza et al. may have a point. A religion is part and parcle. People mention the reform of the Catholic Church repeatedly in these discussions, but I think this may be a mistaken analogy. While the Church did in fact strip away many of the worldly trappings it took on and certain scandelous practices were stopped, the Church changed none of its key beliefs due to the reformation. Other sects and branches of protestantism sprung up, and THEY have reputiated the central teachings of the Catholic Church. But even with all the divisions, Christians still believe in the trinity, still believe in the resurrection, and the forgiveness of sin through Christ's mercy.
A reform of Islam, while it may seem like a temporary relief of pressure on Western Civilization will not help in the long run. The things that make Islam inimical to Western Civilization are its core doctrines. Islam already has subsects and it doesn't keep them from fighting against Western Civiliazation.
To make a bad analogy, its like being a little bit pregnant.
This is not to say that all Muslims are bad people, BUT there is a fundimental flaw in their religion.
Here's another from the same website. Francis Bacon (sorry his name makes reference to pork!) went beyond Aristotle and invented the scientific method. Where would you be expressing your contempt for everything that uplifts mankind, had the scientific method not facilitated the invention of the internet?
"There be but two swords among Christians, the spiritual and the temporal…But we may not take up the third sword, which is Mahomet’s sword, or like unto it; that is, to propagate religion by wars or by sanguinary persecutions to force consciences."
Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
Hey Reza, are you still there? The inventor of the essay thinks that Muslim heaven is only for hedonists. I suppose this paradise of the flesh has a special appeal to adolescents of all ages :
"When Mohammed promises his followers a paradise tapestried, adorned with gold and precious stones, peopled with wenches of surpassing beauty, with rare wines and foods, I can easily see that they are mockers stooping to our folly to honey us and attract us by these ideas hopes appropriate to our moral appetites"
Michel de Montaigne (1533-1592)
Repudiate not "violent jihad" but "jihad" tout court. But then there is another problem: how will we know that it is serious? What might be the litmust test for the abandonment of Jihad?
I heard Shirin Ebadi on the radio yesterday. There she is, most peoples' idea of a wonderful brave fighter against Muslim extremism; a Nobel Prize for her efforts to ameliorate the condition of women and children in Iran today. And what did she have to offer? The usual apologetics and nonsense: that there was nothing wrong with Islam, whatever happened that was bad had nothing to do with Islam, was a "perversion" of Islam. Not a word, of course, about the inculcated hostility toward Infidels.
And even more telling was her discussion of what she saw as the West-inspired "war of civilizations." Yes, the West was making war on Islam. And not just Islam. No, it was intent on then carrying the war to the Buddhists. That's right, the American government is even now plotting to destroy Buddhist temples and kill monks -- just the way the Muslims have for centuries. Her transparent attempt to whip up hatred against the United States, as the uncontrollable enemy of all mankind, and to win Buddhist allies for Islam (even as Buddhists are being killed in southern Thailand) was signficant. And there are plenty of "moderates" and plenty of "reformers" who will simply say that yes, of course, they are against the "Jihad" -- in any case, the word "Jihad" has been misunderstood, it really means.....well, you can see the looming problems.
And what about the Manchurian Candidates, sleepers who may come awake for militant Islam, the dormant virus problem. Such a person may be indifferent to Islamic tenets, and for most of his life display all the outward and visible signs of a "moderate" who poohpoohs Jihad and then, when something happens (loss of a job, a change in testosterone or serotonin or cholesterol level, loss of a girlfriend, etc.), or even in reaction to a perceived slight -- a child does not get into the college of his choice, because of an Infidel admissions officer, and suddenly the old manichaeism comes back. Think of how many of those terrorists and would-be terrorists exhibited no signs of fanaticism, until very late, and too late.
My grandchildren will be Crusaders against Islam.
"Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Allahu akbar"
Fuck you, Reza, and your pedophile prophet Momo, too
REZA,
You ask "how will we oppose Islam?"
IT'S CALLED THE NUKE...and all of you shits are just ASKING FOR IT. And trust me buddy, GOD WILL FORGIVE US, because you sleeze are nothing but that... SCUMMY, FILTHY, INTOLERANT, LYING CRIMINAL SCUM. I cannot equate you people to animals... THEY ARE ABOVE YOU.
How's THAT jerk-off?
Renouncing Jihad won't be enough. Eventually, Muslims in the West will find that they'll have to renounce Islam in its entirety, or forever be under suspicion by ordinairy Westerners. Attempts to legislate in favour of Muslims at the expense of everyone else will hasten that moment.
Reza's grandchildren will be jews.
I disagree that the definiation of a radical Muslims is one who believes in jihad; I draw the line at those who believe in sharia.
As I asked on this board a while ago, whether a Muslim wants to make me a dhimmi via the bullet or the ballot box, the end result is the same. I'm still a dhimmi.
How to win the Intelligence War: Start using intelligence and remove all non US citizen Muslims out of the United States of America, for they've made the God awful mistake of thinking that this country belongs to them.
This move should be swift, complete, and permanent.
Reza,
Your grandchildern will be born deformeded from nuclear radiation (thats if you or your children by some miracle survive)!!!
Once again, a calm and reasoned post that I made in direct response to an article here is met with threats against me personally and against Muslims in general. I understand that these threats are motivated by your fear of Islam, and that fear in turn arises from your ignorance.
The rightous have nothing to fear from Islam. Look around you - whether or not you wish to admit it, you can plainly see that your civilization is in the terminal stages of decay. The evil and perversion are everywhere, and they no longer even attempt to hide their true natures.
Islam is the salvation of the world. I implore you, study and learn about the beauty and perfection of Islam. There is certain to be a mosque near you. Vist it in humbleness and respect and ask the assistance of the imam. He will be able to reassure you and answer your questions, or he will be able to refer you to someone who can.
All the universe was created by Almighty Allah (swt), and He (swt) rules over it all forever. Islam is Allah's (swt) divine and perfect instruction to man. It is a complete and detailed system that prescribes all aspects of human actions and behavior. Compliance with the directions of Allah (swt) will guarantee peace.
Please consider embracing Islam. Stop warring against Almighty Allah (swt) and cease oppressing Muslims. Peace and freedom are in your hands.
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Allahu akbar
1 Billion Muslims?
We defeated 1.5 Billion Communists who had far more
actual strength. And they, at least, weren't mentally crippled by a dogma which kept half their people barefoot, illiterate and at home.
It's time someone pointed out that little detail.
Chris said: "Fuck you, Reza, and your pedophile prophet Momo, too"
Chris, methinks that Reza would regard that as a gift!
Dan said: "Reza's grandchildren will be jews."
I gotta tell you, I'm just loving all these "Reza's grandchildren. . ." retorts--thank you Canuck!
Reza
Please read,
www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38872
Particularly the last paragraph..
I think Reza's grandparetns ARE Jews.
NEWS FLASH: Saudi Clerics Condemn Terrorism (kind of)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/15/saudi.clerics/index.html
The Vatican City isn't a square mile, by any stretch... it is 108 acres, about 1/6th of a square mile. By comparision, Central Park is 840 acres, and the Mall in DC is I think about 750 acres.
Among the rest of Hugh's other insightful comments about Shirin Ebadi, he noted that she said: ". . .there was nothing wrong with Islam, whatever happened that was bad had nothing to do with Islam, was a "perversion" of Islam."
"They" used to say that about Communism and other failed systems as well. Communism was just fine, but the people perverted it; they were too "selfish" to let it work properly.
I rather prefer Deming's assessment. He pointed out that where there was a problem, it existed with the system, not with the people.
If you find that a system just doesn't work, no matter how hard you try to make it work, you'd better rexamine it, because it's failure is due to the fact that it is inconsistent with human nature.
The System of Islam is also inconsistent with human nature; it's most grievous sin is that it places the mind in constraints.
U crusaders are too cowards and pussies to declare any war against Islam nor Jihad . so shut up
Jihad is here and for ever until all Allah's earth will be controled by Islam .
God’s messenger (peace by open him) as saying, "This religion will not cease to endure with a company of the Muslims fighting on its behalf till the last hour comes."
Mohamed (peace by open him) said, "... I have been made victorious with terror cast in the hearts of the enemy ..."
Jihadist, my dear, the word is "upon," not "open."
Jihadist
Would you please translate, into english, your last post??
Moron!!
It's the same thing jihadist always says when there's talk of declaring war on islam.I'm sure he fears such a war since muslims are militarily impotent and would lose any war with the west.
We will wipe Islam from the face of the planet before we will submit to it - and we have the will and the means to do it.
raza
Most of the muslums in the USA are cowards and are now seeing the Light and do not want to live under Muslum rule ! This is why they came to the USA! Who are terriorist we will kill they can not find a rock that they can hide under!
We are awake now not sleep-ing
Which is the only you could have won!
Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad.”
So you see when you Muslums say that the women bombers are a new thing we see once again you have lied!!!! In our book you go to hell for that!!!
We SEE You NOW!!!
Iran Massing Troops on Iraq Border
NewsMax Wires
Tuesday, June 15, 2004
Iran reportedly is readying troops to move into Iraq if U.S. troops pull out, leaving a security vacuum.
The Saudi daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, monitored in Beirut, reports Iran has massed four battalions at the border.
Al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted "reliable Iraqi sources" as saying, "Iran moved part of its regular military forces towards the Iraqi border in the southern sector at a time its military intelligence agents were operating inside Iraqi territory."
raza
a little girly today aren't you???
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Allah will not prevail because he is Lucifer who appeared to Mohammed as an angel of light and deceived him. The devil will be cast into the pit on that last day along with his angels. Read the true scriptures- they came well before the Koran.
raza
Once you are agian wrong the USA believes in the 10 commaments those are the only laws God Gave to the World Yes to A Jew!!!
YOUR evil Book is from a man who did all things against God!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS you talk about all these muslums well with out those you hate you will die most have no pot to piss in and will die without western aid!!!
It will be easy for us to turn our heads from your deaths we will go to a movie and watch the sillyness and not turn our heads your way!
Reza you muslims pig wanna be,
I am tired of reading the same quotes from the koran and bible. The same response to any idiot that contradicts the realities. Some of you have called me inhumane, crazy, illiterate, and more. Take note, I have an MBA, I speak: English, Greek, Arabic, French, Spanish, and German. I do read islamic and muslim sites in all these languages. mulsim pigs, pay close attention.:
In all of the above muslim sites (over 50 in 6 languages), there are many mulsims who advocate the extermination of jews and Christians. Not one muslim voice contradicts nor proposes a compromise to this vile believe. Yet you pig muslims come to this and other sites and get offended and upset when I commend the Bosnian Serbs, and I propose more Srebenicas for the defense of non-muslims. You muslim pigs and idiot supporters have no right to criticize me for wanting the survival of my kind. We can express our frustration on these pages all we want, but unless we can convince the main stream population of the dangers, we are just blowing air. I and many others have lived with islam all of our lives, and we despise it. It IS a disease that needs to be eradicated.
Yes, let there be many more Srebenicas
Hugh,
Of course you are right. "Sleepers" are invisible before the event; and what we know ex-post isn't much use.
That said, we could start by learning to say no to muslim entryism. The Dutch have already begun to say no, and with practice might get to be good at it. But we don't have much time.
U crusaders are too cowards and pussies to declare any war against Islam nor Jihad . so shut up
Posted by jihadist at June 15, 2004 11:30 AM
I accept your challenge little boy. I know for a fact I can out shoot you, and with regard to "hand to hand", I'd crossface you, lock an ankle, then wrench you backwards, looking for the sweet, glorious sound of "pop". This would be my idea of a perfect day. Now, shut me up.
Anytime, puke.
Yes we are studying your book well! yes we see the evil in this book and no It does not put fear in us it puts HATE and this hate we will forgive ourselfs for and go on with life which we love so much as did Our Grandparents did in WW2 We the USA lost 400,000 BUT the World lost 50,000,000!
Here is what is in your book and Americans Pick Kill over be Killed
PEACE, ISLAM STYLE:
Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me.’”
Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”
Tabari VII:86 “Gabriel brought down the following verse to the Messenger: ‘If you apprehend treachery from any people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations).’ When Gabriel had finished delivering this verse, the Prophet said, ‘I fear the Banu Qaynuqa.’ It was on the basis of this verse that Muhammad advanced upon them.”
Tabari VII:158 “Judayy went to Abd Allah Ibn Ubayy to ask for support. He said, ‘I found him sitting among a number of his companions while the Prophet’s crier was calling men to arms. He said, ‘This is a clever trick of Muhammad’s.’ The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir Jews for fifteen days. In the end they made peace with him on the condition that the Prophet would not kill them and that their property and their coats of mail would be his.”
Tabari VII:159 “The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir for fifteen days until he had reduced them to a state of utter exhaustion, so that they would give him what he wanted. The terms in which the Prophet made peace with the Jews were: he would not shed their blood, he would expel them from their lands and settlements, providing for every three of them a camel and a water-skin.”
Tabari VII:159 “The Prophet fought them until he made peace with them on condition that they evacuated Yathrib. He expelled them to Syria but allowed them to keep what their camels could carry, except for their coats of mail and weapons.”
Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
Qur’an 97:5 “There is peace until the dawning of the day!”
Ishaq:515 “When the people of Fadak heard what had happened, they sent word to the Messenger, asking him to banish them and spare their lives, saying they too would leave him their property. When the people of Khaybar surrendered on these conditions, the survivors asked Muhammad to employ them on their farms for a half share of whatever they produced. They said, ‘We know more about farming [seeing that you are terrorists and all].’ So Muhammad made peace with them for a half share, provided that: ‘If we want to expel you, we may.’ He made a similar arrangement with Fadak. So Khaybar became the prey of the Muslims, while Fadak belonged exclusively to the Messenger of Allah, becoming his personal property, because the Muslims had not attacked its people with cavalry.”
Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”
Tabari VIII:104 “Peace to whoever follows the right guidance! To proceed; Submit yourself, and you shall be safe.’”
Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”
Tabari VIII:142 “The Messenger made peace with them on condition that the Zoroastrians should be required to pay the jizyah tax [so onerous, it’s akin to economic suicide] that one should not marry their women.”
Qur’an 9:7 “How can there be a covenant between Allah and His Messenger and the disbelievers with whom you made a treaty near the sacred Mosque?” Qur’an 9:8 “How (can there be such a treaty), seeing that they get an advantage, the upper hand over you? They do not pay you respect, or honor you or the ties of kinship or covenant. With (good words from) their mouths they entice you [out negotiate you], but their hearts are averse to you.”
Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”
Tabari VIII:163 “The Prophet said, ‘I think you will see Abu Sufyan [the leading Meccan merchant] come to strengthen the pact and extend the term.’” Ishaq:543 “Abu Sufyan went to Muhammad in Medina to affirm the peace treaty, but Muhammad refused to speak to him.” Tabari VIII:164 “Sufyan went to Abu Bakr and asked him to intercede, but he refused. When Sufyan asked Umar to help [avert war], he replied, ‘No way. By Allah, if I had only ant grubs, I would fight you with them! Ali said, ‘Woe to you, Sufyan. When the Messenger has determined a thing it is useless for anyone to talk to him.’”
Tabari VIII:165 “There is nothing that you can do to make peace with him.”
Tabari VIII:165 “When Abu Sufyan reported back to the Quraysh that Muhammad had given him no reply, they said, ‘Woe to you! By Allah, he did no more than play with you.’”
Ishaq:544 “Muhammad commanded the people to prepare for the foray [raid, incursion, sortie, attack, or assault]. The Messenger informed his troops that he was going to Mecca. He ordered them to prepare themselves and ready their equipment quickly. He said, ‘O Allah, keep spies and news from the Quraysh until we take them by surprise in their land.’”
Tabari VIII:182 “Allah had enabled Muhammad to take the persons of the Quraysh by force, giving him power over them so they were his booty. Their lives were now his spoil.”
Ishaq:552 “When the populace settled down, Muhammad went to the Ka’aba and compassed it seven times on his camel, touching the Black Stone with a stick. Then he went inside the Temple. There he found a dove made of wood. He broke it in his hands and threw it away.” [The first idol Muhammad broke was the international symbol of peace.]
Tabari IX:58 “When the Messenger reached Tabuk the governor of Aylah [a seaport at the north end of the Gulf of Aqabah] came to him, made a treaty, and agreed to pay the jizyah tax. The people of Jarba and Adhruh also offered to pay him the tax.”
Ishaq:607 “The Byzantines encountered the Messenger’s cavalry which was led by Khalid. Ukaydir was seized and his brother Hassan was killed. Muhammad spared his life and made peace with him on the condition that he pay the zakat tax.”
Tabari IX:79 “In this year the zakat was made obligatory, and the Messenger dispatched his agents to collect it. The verse was revealed: ‘Take the zakat from their wealth to purify them.’”
Ishaq:316 “In peace you are wild asses—rough and coarse. And in war you are like women wearing corsets. But I care not so long as my hand can grasp my trusty blade.”
Qur’an 8:61 “But if the enemy inclines toward peace, do you (also) incline to peace, and trust in Allah. Should they intend to deceive or cheat you, verily Allah suffices: He strengthened you with His aid and with Believers.” [The small print is real important. “Should they intend to deceive or cheat” is an open invitation to invoke 8:57 to 60. The first to interpret this surah said:]
Ishaq:326 “If they ask you for peace on the basis of Islam (submission), make peace on that basis. Be of one mind by His religion.”
Tabari VIII:17 “The Muslims and polytheists stayed in their positions for twenty nights with no fighting except for the shooting of arrows and the siege. When the trial became great for the people, the Messenger sent for the leaders of the Ghatafan [Meccan comrades]. He offered them a third of the date harvest of Medina on condition that they leave. The truce between the sides progressed to the point of drawing up a written document, but there was no witnessing or firm determination to make peace; it was only a matter of maneuvering.”
Ishaq:454 “Now that Allah has conferred Islam on us, and made us famous, shall we give them our property? By Allah, we will offer them only the sword until Allah judges between us.’ ‘As you wish,’ said Allah’s Messenger.”
Tabari VIII:100 “Abu Sufyan said, ‘We were merchants but the fighting between us and Muhammad has prevented us from journeying, so our wealth is depleted. [This is the purpose of terrorism.] Even after the truce with the Muslims, we fear that we still are not safe. [Muslims, continuing to plunder Meccan caravans, violated the treaty twenty times.]’”
Qur’an 4:90 “For those who join a group between you and whom there is a treaty, or (those who become) weary of fighting you, had Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. Therefore if they withdraw and wage not war, and send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah has not given you a way (to war) against them.” [The purpose of terror is to cause people to become so “weary of fighting” they surrender.]
Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you.]
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You will Run away like you did when 5 arab countrys attacked Little Israel and you got your buts kicked well now you have made a huge mistake you are play-ing with the Big Boys now
God Bless the country who has Heros and Pitty the Country who needs them!!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Firces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS the way to Bet these terrorist is Freedom because when they have Freedom to leave Muslum land with out fear of haveing their heads cut off they Leave 9 out of 10 times!!!
This is what the Muslums Fear!!
Mohamed (peace by open him) said, "... I have been made victorious with terror cast in the hearts of the enemy ..."
Posted by jihadist at June 15, 2004 11:30 AM
Peace be open him? Typical illiterate Muslimbonics.
Hey Reza,
Do you ever think about what happens to a parasite after it kills its host? If it does have a strategy for finding another host, that's the end ot the line.
Finito!
Let's face it, Muslim world is a parasitic culture incapable of innovation.
Forget this crap about the so-called "Muslim Golden Age", when Muslims created algebra and revised Aristotle. That happened only because they were in the right place at the right time, and the caliphate had yet to fully impose the authority of the Koran.
Almost nothing of significant value came form the Muslim world after the 13th century.
What strategy do you have for enjoying the ongoing fruits of technology after you destroy the culture that is giving it to you now?
Who will be your next host? The People's Republic of China?
I doubt they will be as accomodating as the West.
So what is your exit strategy?
Do you expect Dhimmi slaves to continue provide you the technology to search for other hosts?
Political power may stem from the barrel of a gun, but only freedom makes innovation possible.
That is exactly why your Islam bears the seeds of its own destruction.
Forget this crap about the so-called "Muslim Golden Age", when Muslims created algebra and revised Aristotle. That happened only because they were in the right place at the right time, and the caliphate had yet to fully impose the authority of the Koran.
Yea but were they slaves like the jews who built the pirmids
And what have they done sence then Nothing except drill oil!
Well the USA congress is voteing today to take the need for Arab oil away!
Yes can you mulsums eat oil???
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS Playing with the Big Boys now!!
You Go Trancredtio!
You underestimate the resolve that we as believers in G-D , whether we be Christians, Jews Buddists etc. have to stand against world domination by murderers. We will fight to the last man, woman or child. We are not all bleeding heart idiots. There are millions of true believers in freedom who will never bow their knee to your oppression.
Reza and the rest of muslims you are crazy!
Only imagine that all the pig muslims say openly the truth as you did, you know conquer the world and all that shit. Well that day would be glorious because now you only face with westerners who are stupidily tolerants, but when you face russians or chinese you will taste your own brutality. They will crush you without hesitation. By the way if I could I would do the same.
I think the jihadis underestimate not only the will of Christian believers, but basically of lovers of freedom as a whole. For example, I come into contact, on a daily basis, with the sorts of people whose lifestyles make them ideal fodder for "heavies" in many movies; inner city gangbangers and the like.
These guys--most of them anyway--are woefully uneducated, have no sense of civic responsibility, and in general would chortle at the idea of "patriotism." Having said that, I also know for a fact that these guys want nothing to do with our own government, let alone a barbaric theocracy run by incoherent thugs who want nothing so much as to spill blood in order to enforce a laughable idea of law. So in effect, while they may be no fans of any type of government, they know that at least this one affords them the least amount of interference. Some skinny, bearded guys wearing dresses and carrying AK's would last about 10 minutes in those neighborhoods, if for no other reason than for what they represent.
Knowing that, and knowing that the same dynamic holds throughout the US, be it Watts or Appalachia, gives me great comfort. As a Christian believer, I too want as little in the way of government interference in my life as possible. I do not agree at all with the gangbanger types referenced above, and I know they have little respect for my belief system. But guess what we have in common: An appreciation of free will and freedom.
Demographic threats can be halted if enough people are educated early enough in the process. Armed jihad in this country is absurd to the point of being a Chuck Norris movie. The Mohammadens have no idea just how resourceful Americans can be, how completely wedded to the idea of freedom we are, and how serious we are about preserving it. I have a feeling--in the worst case scenario--that the learning curve for the Jihadis would be painful and short.
josé maría just ask the russians if they want again to face moujahdeen they had already their Jihad overdose in Afghanistan, Tajakistan and Now in Chechenya .
Communism has tried before ur strategy to destroy islam... where is communism now !!! u can find him in the garbage of history and that will be the same for the capitalism and democratie .
jihadist, the Afghans won due to US military hardware and the fact that that other than nukes, the USSR had a creaky conventional military.
You are a troll, and most likely not even a muslim. However, if you are indeed a mohammmaden, please allow me to say "Allah (puke be upon him)."
Good day.
Oh now the Afghans beat the Russians? Wake up Muzzie, if the American's hadn't been involved, Afghanistan would now be a part of Russia.
Don't flatter yourselves. The Russians would squash you now, and would've then, if not for the U.S. stepping in. By the way, there's a little country over there in the far east that still practices communism, maybe you've heard of it. It's called China.
I'd love the Moojadaheensow, to tell Putin to bring it.....When he does, America won't have any more Islam to concern itself with, for Russia will have swatted it like the fly that it is.
jihadist
America took down Communism. All Muslim efforts were trivial...The turn in Afghanistan occured when Reagan and Thatcher supplied shoulder fired guided missiles, gratis...Until then, the Muslims were getting wiped out.
The success of the US backing the Northern Alliance is what has triggered the return of Afghans to Kabul...
USSR has did best than u are doing now what a joke u cant secure Kabul far to control Afghanistan as the russians did :)
American support to moujahdeen is a myth when u talke about some stinger missiles paid cash 70000 $ each by muslim money u call this a US military hardware support.
Moujahdeen has beat the Russians by weapons taken from Russians and they are fighting americans now by the same weapons
Jihaddist in Chechenia you have been smashed. You are only terrorists that from time to time put bombs and hide like rats. But russians will send you to Paradise where you will enjoy sex with 9 years old babies with your prophet.
IF Anti-Islamists are so proud of having a plan by actually nuking and destroying all Muslim countries, Why I hear the name of Ronald Reagan these days so frequently?
Think about Finding and Reincarnating Harry S. Trumann, He maybe the only one who will submit his mind to your vicious plans for letting radioactivity clouds encircle the erath for centuries and destory the whole mankind.
One might think even he won't accept this generous proposal.
Chechenya 1 : Russians has their asses kicked out
Chechenya 2 : Russians with western toatl support are trying to keep some control but without any success
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/
LOL...Americans beat the muhadjadeen in a few weeks with a few hundred American soldiers, the Northern Allaince (some of whom didn't even have shoes) and air support.The muhajadeen ran for the hills rather then face the "mighty" Northern Alliance.Muhajadeen were then driven out of their caves by American bombs and fled to Pakistan where they are bombed from time to time by the Pakistan army and American forces.The Taliban has been reduced to threatening to kill women who dare to vote in the upcoming Afghabistan election.
Perhaps because women would never vote for a crowardly muhajadeen?
Pig jihaidist Chechenia is under russian control. You think that because you put bombs you control the country. Bastards. But coward jihaidist why are you losing your time with us and don´t go to Chechenya or Irak or Afganistan or better to Israel?
Don´t waste your time hundreds of girls and babies are waiting for you in paradise! you´ll be fucking forever!
Is that where you and Raisin live Twinkie? On Planet Erath? Perhaps that explains your ridiculous commentary. The air on planet Erath must be sparce.
I see the trend continue, as Muslims try to change history in a weak and useless effort to make themselves out to be the winners. Keep trying you sissy boys, it's gives us all great laughs. I bet if you could, you'd burn every history book on Earth, and on Planet Erath that had any wording of Muslim losses.
Jihadis have become the world's whippin' boys. Always out of their league. Mentally challenged boys, trying to make the world believe that they're men. Yet, if you take a Muslim woman aside, and ask them, they'll tell you that Muslim men are inadequate. Draw you own conclusions on that one.
Correction: your own
Jose is up set because he is looseing!
Artical in News max cover story the terrorist are cry-ing!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
¡Jose está arriba el conjunto porque él afloja!
¡Artical en el cuento de la cubierta de Noticias Max que el terrorista son ing de grito!
La parte del Tribu americano
El dios Bendice los Estados Unidos de América y sus Fuerzas Luchadoras y Todo que Lucha con ella les da Fuerza y Coraje para permanecer el curso a la Victoria Amén
Look at jose he is not who he portends to be??
Monday, June 14, 2004 11:45 p.m. EDT
Zarqawi to bin Laden: U.S. Winning in Iraq
Al-Qaida's most dangerous operative, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, has personally warned terror kingpin Osama bin Laden that his troops are under intensifying pressure from U.S. forces in Iraq and prospects for a terrorist victory look bleak.
News Max.com
Sorry CGW but I did not post all!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS jihadi and mo-ham-od
We have taken the rope off the Russians and they have a Free hand??
Winning on the intelligence-sector of this struggle's essential; how are things going on this urgent front?
What if the Iranians’ experimental nuclear equipment, which it’s eking out to the IAEA for safe disposal, isn’t ALL the stuff it’s got? What if there’s a new, “second-generation”, armaments-production industry, hidden in the country and churning out A-bombs (perfected using the gear being surrendered, which is merely the obsolete residue of its developmental schemes)?
The EU, Russia and China are happy to take the Grand Council of Islamic Guidance’s promises, that they’re not building atom warheads, simply ON TRUST. They’re all busily selling nuclear technology to Iran - some of it in the “dual use” category, but most only for peaceful, legitimate, civil use: medical applications, scientific research and for power-generation.
(This accelerated construction of nuclear power-plants is for a nation beneath which lies nearly 20% of the world’s oil. Tehran does plausibly argue, though, that domestic electricity from atomic reactors frees up more Iranian oil to flow onto the global market. The spent uranium from these atomic piles can, nevertheless, be gradually refined up to fissile-grade.)
At best, however, these myopic Russian, European, Chinese and other international opportunists - even if unwittingly - are laying a handy smokescreen and/or running interference for the Grand Council’s keen pursuit of nuclear weapons, its true, strategic priority.
It’s delighted to exploit the eagerness of the EU, the UN, Russia, China, et al, to hear Iran saying that it’s not arming with nukes, taking advantage of this enthusiasm, top secretly, to do just that, employing a host of devilish tricks. The IAEA itself is institutionally handicapped and severely compromised in its ability to conduct inspections and monitoring, etc, and it’s further likely that it’s disinclined to overstep its various limits, at this juncture anyway.
It boils down to a RACE. Which comes first: progressive régime-change for Iran or the mullahs accruing enough atomic devices to conceive that they can smash American and Israeli power in Iran’s region, in a sneak attack? For this they’d require, at the very least, a score of payloads - plus some extra, retaining sufficient to deter the other nuclear players around (Pakistan, India, Russia and China, all today on good terms with Tehran) from succumbing to any temptation.
Iran’s first operational warhead will be available in 12 months, it’s guessed, and then it could assemble between three and six annually. The barest mimimum it’d need to wage a nuclear war would be two dozen - doubling that quantity would give it the credible threat of a second-strike potential, extremely scary for the US, if its Persian Gulf bases were to be suddenly shattered.
Tiny Israel, by this stage of events, would have been destroyed, but with its dying breath, it would probably launch up to hundreds of missiles, into Iran and possibly also into other parts of the dar el-Islam. The USA, its local strength devastated by Iran’s offensive, would be left no choice except a riposte with a skyful of ICBMs, falling on Iran and other targets in the region.
This conflagration could be circumvented. Surveillance of Iran should be increased, with a view to pinpointing every key element of its covert nuclear arms establishment. Meanwhile, robust efforts should be made to organize and instigate an anti-Theocratic revolution there.
It should be squarely communicated to the people of Iran that if they don’t oust their rulers IN TIME, they’ll be led ineluctably, and soon, into a terminal conflict by them, from which, frankly, NONE of millions of urban-dwelling Iranian are liable to emerge alive.
If this revolution’s too tardy in arriving (i.e. if it looks as though Iran’s weapons are almost ready, and it hasn’t broken out), or if it does take place and is crushed, then THAT’s the occasion to smite all the Iranian atom-sites, with whatever munitions will demolish them, including nukes.
Humanely, such blasts will be largely confined to military complexes, which is where the great bulk of the offending factories and facilities are dug in now, having recently been clandestinely shifted into concealment there, far from Iran’s cities and towns.
Why, it’s feasible that the surgical strikes could even ASSIST Iran’s citizenry to pluck up the necessary courage to topple the Ayatollahs. But, if not, if nothing more, Iran’s nuclear menace will be defanged anyhow, for a length of years.
cubed said "I gotta tell you, I'm just loving all these "Reza's grandchildren. . ." retorts--thank you Canuck!"
Thanks, consider it my contribution to the cause. (Crusade)
(and thanks to you to reza!)
"Your grandchildren will ridicule islam."
cubed said " If you find that a system just doesn't work, no matter how hard you try to make it work, you'd better rexamine it, because it's failure is due to the fact that it is inconsistent with human nature. “
There is a very good book, ‘Socialism’, written by an economist/historian named Ludwig Von Mises. He makes the argument that socialism can never work because it is incapable of making the economic calculation. (Delivering what people want without losing money, destroying wealth.) When he talks about socialism, he really means statism, which is a term that also applies to a theocracy like islamo fascists advocate. Dr. Von Mises predicted the down fall of the Soviet system in the 1920’s, although he admitted it may take a while for it to collapses, he had no doubt that it would. And it did. Any islamic government faces the same problems and the same lack of solutions that they could/would live with.
“Your grandchildren will be followers of Dr. Von Mises and worshipers of freedom.”
Did you hear About the Floods in Russia well guess they won't have the grains to feed the Muslums either
Oh! My!
Oh No!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA an her Fighting Forces an All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS can you say can you eat oil???
PSS Short skirts and hunt-ing dogs Yea Baby!!
Fezê-lo ouvir Sobre as Inundações em Rússia bem adivinham eles nao terão os grãos alimentar o Muslums qualquer um
Fezê-lo ouvir Sobre as Inundações em Rússia bem adivinham eles nao terão os grãos alimentar o Muslums qualquer um
Ó! Meu!
Ó Não!
A parte do Deus Americano de Tribo Abençoa o Estados Unidos uma seua Luta Força um Todo quem Luta com ela dar lhes Força e Coragem de permanecer o curso a Amém de Vitória
PS você pode dizer lata você come óleo???
PSS saias Curtas e Bebê de voto a favor de cachorros de caça-ing!
Sentire lei delle Inondazioni in Russia bene supposizione non avranno che i grani per nutrire il Muslums sia
Oh! Mio!
Oh No!
La parte del Dio di Tribù americano Benedice lo Stati Uniti una la sua Lotta Forza un Tutta il che Lotta con gli dà la Forza ed il Coraggio per stare il corso a amen di Vittoria
P lei può dire la lattina lei mangia l'olio???
PSS i cani di di gonne e caccia-ing Bimbo di voto favorevole di Breve!
This is a remarkably simplistic view of Islam. It is presumed that the need exists to separate ill-intended from well-intended, of critical concern is how to make this separation. The Islamic terrorists don't exactly wear a badge or insignia. In fact, their tactic is to melt in with innocent families and thereby hold them hostage.
The "good" Islamists need to separate themselves from the "bad" radical Islamists, pure and (not so) simple.
captian America
There are no good ones they will turn on a dime!
So it is like WW2 with the Japanese in America sorry to say! Our Grandparents did. They did not know who to trust and most of the Japanese are still here!
We will Forgive ourselfs like our Grandparents did in WW2 this is Life and Death! Even the Libs will sign on when they relize that it is their lifes! And remember they have no guns so they will be afraid before the rednecks in this country!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Reza, Islam is moving civilization backwards. Maybe all these people are expressing fear, but it is healthy fear of a religion that wants to go back to the Dark Ages, and rule by lies and deceit. Look at history: what ever happened to all the great ancient middle and near east civilizations? They were destroyed by Islam. Look at Egypt or ancient Mesopotamia, once great centers of knowledge and learning. But now they are in chaos. You can't blame this on the Crusade forever; they happed over a thousand years ago
get real
Hate to do this it was at 69
Part of the American Tribe!
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Yes, yes and yes.
The pc concept that religions are 'special' and have moral equivalency is quackdust.
A religious ideology, with indoctrination from birth, is more powerful and can be more dangerous than a political or economic ideology.
The Catholic Church, all Christian Church has changed, as have Jews, in their understandings of scriptures and of each other, and of all that we are a part of, especially in the last few hundred years.
"..to repudiate jihad .. implies radical revision of the religion's mainstream "
Yes, and to repudiate the Sharia, and and and.
What would be left of Islam.
And that is the why of their hatred. For them, it would be better if all humanity perished with Islam, tnan any society should carry on without it.
There is little point arguing with Reza. Muslims don't believe Islam because it's true; it's true because they believe it. The easiest solution to the Islamic problem in the West, particularly the U.S., is to remove the problem. I am still bewildered, confused, and appalled that we invited this scourge into our country and allowed it to fester right under our noses until 9-11, after which many Americans finally developed a healthy curiosity about Islam. Muslims should be deported from America. I don't care where they go as long as it is at least 6000 miles from any of our borders. Reza is so confident in the triumph of Satanic Islam; he urges us to "learn" about it, accept it. Reza, I know more about this filthy ideology than I want to know and I spit on the Quran and curse your ersatz "prophet" of death and doom. Before this battle ends, all vestiges of Islam except your cherished memories and a few battered Qurans will be destroyed, and muslims will have themselves to thank for the demise of their beloved cult of war and death. Allah's cursed pestilence will be no more and your grandchildren will be mutated atheists, if any muslim survivors are capable of reproduction.
Susan
Jihadist, Reza, & Mahmoud:
You magnificent bastards! Maybe we've been a little quick to judge.
Could you do us a really, really big favor and give us your proofs that Allah exists, and after that, that Muhammed actually acted as Allah's stenographer? And if it's not too much trouble, any proof you might have that if Allah exists and Muhammed recoded his words, that Muhammed did so faithfully?
Now mind you, we Westerners have a high threshold for proofs and therefore will not respond favorably to fallacious reasoning on your part:-)
I feel that I would be negligent if I didn't alert you to the fact that others have been attempting proofs in areas such as these for well over the last few millennia without success so don't rush if you need more time.
Good luck you wascally wabbits!
People...it is already too late for the Muslims. They are really mad because they are the decedents of the bastard child of Abraham, Ismael.
In essence, they are the children of a Jew. Illegitimate at that. Maybe they should take their own Sharia Law and stone themselves to death?
What pisses them off the most is that they didn't even know they were a bastard child of a jew until Mohammed came along, 3000 years later, and reminded them of the fact. All in an effort to give them legitimacy when they invaded the neighboring countries.
So...muslims want to be pissed at somebody, ought to be Mohammed since he had to remind them of their status as a bastard child.
A few comments regarding Reza's pro-Islamofascism message:
1)The US currently recognizes that there are two forms of Islam- peaceful/good and violent/bad. The peaceful Muslims will be and should be tolerated, respected, and be given every right and privelege that every other legitimate religious community has. Those who subscibe to the racial hatred, death-obsession, and complete intolerance of the jihadist world view will be crushed into the earth without apology.
2) Even if only Islam succeeds in becoming a culture that is not a threat to Western nations via jihad, it (the ummah) must still deal with internal threats that arise from the very nature of Islam itself, and the associated Arab culture which revolves around concepts of honor and shame rather than right and wrong. Thus, to avoid complete collapse, both ISLAM and ARAB/MIDDLE EAST CULTURE must undergo reforms of such a profound nature that the end result will likely bear little if any resemblance the current religious and political philosophy of the region.
3) Specifically, if countries with primarily Islamic populations wish to compete in the modern world, they must a)completely excise the presence of Sharia from government functioning, b) recognize the status of women as moral and intellectual equals, c)introduce the rule of law (via an independent state judiciary) and respect for it, d) deemphasize importance of tribal customs and cultural views which remain locked in the 8th century, e) marginalize notions of familial honor/dishonor, replacing them with individual responsibility, respect for life, and the fundamental morality of basic human rights.
And that's just the start. Although I try to remain optimistic, I just can't see the Islamic world making these crucial adjuments to ensure their survival. Their backwards notions of honor predict that it is better to save face by creating a state of all-out war between muslims and non-muslims, rather than join the rest of humanity in enjoying the benifits of freedom and equality (which they equate with admitting defeat).
The fact that there are 1.2 billion Muslims doesn't bother me in the slightest. If it came down to all out war, the final score would have only one possible outcome- total and complete victory by non-muslim forces. Think about it: The US and her allies have completely routed TWO Islamic regimes with total wartime operations for BOTH campaigns at less than 3 months. Allied causualties - less than 1000. Enemy casualties - not sure, but 25,000-30,000 is probably a ballpark figure. AND THIS IS WHILE SHOWING ENORMOUS RESTRAINT!!! If the gloves ever REALLY came off, the devastion of the Arab world would be absolute, beginning with nuclear warheads hitting Riyadh, Cairo, Mecca, Medina, and Damascus, just to name a few. So just remember, it's not the size of your army, it's what you do with it. :) By the way, it would do the Arab worl well to remember that a military coalition of every Arab country (who had the element of surprise) was SOUNDLY defeated by the tiny country of Israel IN LESS THAN A WEEK...and Israel hadn't even been a country for 20 years at that point. So 1.2 billion people? I, for one, am not intimidated, and I'm sure our general feel the same way.
-Alan
Hello everyone,
I can't help wondering if we're all dodging the main point world-wide, so I guess I'll have to ask the question no one wants to ask:
Just as Western Civilization has been the source for the world-wide forbidding, banning, or prohibiting of primitve or uncivilized practices or beliefs(such as slavery, genocide, child labor, and telling Catherine she can't wear short skirts)I wonder if we're looking at the possibility of banning or restricting religion or certain types of religious practice. Before you give a snap answer, stop for a moment, take a deep breath and recall that virtually every human cruelty, every injustice in the last 5,000 years (at least by our modern 20/20 hindsight)regardless of how it was regarded in its day by its practitioners is now viewed as having its origins at least in part in some form of religious excess or belief.
And bear in mind that civilization is a work in progress - we've banned slavery but not unfair labor,we've punished genocide but not prevented it,ended child labor but not child soldiers (and shortened Catherine's skirts but not her posts).
It can be done - Germany has banned Nazism but still has politcal parties,the Catholic Church no longer burns people but still celebrates mass,child porn is illegal but Playboy still has its centerfold.
So...if everybody in JihadWatch(and I mean everybody)were to convene in a cyberHague or cyberGeneva or cyberLas Vegas(what? hey, all work and no play...)and each have an equal say, equal vote...what new International Law regarding religion would you write?
Remember,it would have to be applied equally world-wide to all religions and religious practices, it would have to be enforceable, and everybody would have to adopt it personally
Remember, the more basic a law is,the easier it is to pass, be implemented and enforced.What restrictions on your own practices would you accept? Lengthening skirts in exchange for banning the burhka?
Would it be best to first agree upon what constitutes "lawful" religion or religious practice?
I'm not following your logic: Why would this new rule have to apply equally to all religions? After all, you made the point in your post that Germany banned naziism but still has political parties. Therefore, we could ban a religion w/o banning religion as a whole. It would be easy enough to set the parameters: simply incorporate the expansionist, militaristic, and claims of superiority made by muslim fundies into the law. In that manner, whether it be jihadis or some raging hindu splinter group (jk), etc., etc, any religious group that had those qualities would be banned.
I'm sure it's not as easy as this sounds, but hey, I've been up all night running emergency medical calls and am a wee bit foggy right now.
“virtually every human cruelty, every injustice in the last 5,000 years (at least by our modern 20/20 hindsight)regardless of how it was regarded in its day by its practitioners is now viewed as having its origins at least in part in some form of religious excess or belief.”
According to whom?
I’m not buying that. Sounds like more atheist/agnostic dogma presented as "fact."
By the way, the answer to your last question?
Your right to self-expression (religious or otherwise) stops when it adversely affects others.
As Islam has killed more than all other religions combined, I'd say that it has forfeited its right to exist.
Phil:
recall that virtually every human cruelty, every injustice in the last 5,000 years (at least by our modern 20/20 hindsight)regardless of how it was regarded in its day by its practitioners is now viewed as having its origins at least in part in some form of religious excess or belief.
Really? I'm having a hard time recalling any religious aspects of Communism, which was probably responsible for more "cruelty" or "injustice" than all the world's religions combined. I don't remember the Nazis being particularly religious, either.
Phil
Some home work for you!
UN experts find evidence of WMD
By Edith M Lederer
10jun04
UN weapons experts have found 20 engines used in Iraq's banned Al Samoud 2 missiles in a Jordanian scrap yard, along with other equipment that could be used to produce weapons of mass destruction.
Acting chief UN inspector Demetrius Perricos disclosed the discovery today in a closed-door briefing to the UN Security Council.
According to the text of his presentation, Perricos said a similar missile engine had been found in a scrap yard in the Dutch port of Rotterdam, while a request had been made to Turkey, which has also received scrap metal from Iraq. The discoveries raise questions about the fate of material and equipment that could be used to produce biological and chemical weapons as well as banned long-range missiles.
Perricos said UN inspectors do not how much material has been removed from Iraq since the war began in March 2003, and suggested the interim government may want to reconsider "the whole policy for the continued export of metal scrap" once it assumes power on June 30.
"The only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," he said, according to the text of his briefing.
Afterwards, he told reporters that up to a thousand tons of scrap metal was leaving Iraq every day.
Perricos told the council that UN experts visited "relevant scrap yards" in Jordan and discovered 20 SA-2 missile engines, which are used in Al Samoud 2 missiles. His report did not specify the condition of the engines, or whether they were damaged.
The UN team also discovered some processing equipment with UN tags - which show it was being monitored - including chemical reactors, heat exchangers, and a solid propellant mixer bowl to make missile fuel, he said. It also discovered "a large number of other processing equipment without tags, in very good condition." The UN inspectors in Jordan were told that "brand new material like stainless steel and special alloy sheets" was being sent out of Iraq, he said. At today's closed council meeting, UN diplomats said many members expressed concern about items missile engines and other material that had been monitored by UN inspectors ending up in foreign scrap yards including Algeria, Brazil, Germany, France, Chile, Spain, Russia and China.
Iran Says Too Bad: It Will go Nuclear
NewsMax Wires
Monday, June 14, 2004
TEHRAN -- Toughening its stance in advance of a meeting of the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency, Iran yesterday said it would reject international restrictions on its nuclear program and challenged the world to accept Tehran as a member of the "nuclear club."
Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi rejected further outside influence on Tehran's nuclear ambitions two days before the International Atomic Energy Agency board of governors meets to discuss Iran's highly controversial program.
"We won't accept any new obligations," Kharrazi said. "Iran has a high technical capability and has to be recognized by the international community as a member of the nuclear club. This is an irreversible path."
Iran has repeatedly insisted its nuclear program is geared toward generating electricity, not making weapons, but the United States and its allies say Tehran has a secret nuclear weapons program.
Iran has suspended uranium enrichment and stopped building centrifuges. It has also allowed IAEA inspections of its nuclear facilities without prior notice, part of the additional protocol to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty that still must be approved by parliament.
Kharrazi insisted that Iran would not give up its development of the nuclear fuel cycle, the steps for processing and enriching uranium necessary for both nuclear energy and nuclear weapons. Iran says it has achieved the full cycle, but is not now enriching uranium.
"That somebody demands that we give up the nuclear fuel cycle . . . is an additional demand," Kharrazi said, apparently referring to demands by U.S. and European countries that Iran halt operations of a plant it inaugurated in March in Isfahan, central Iran, that processes uranium into gas. The demand also calls for aborting plans to build a heavy water reactor in Arak, another central city.
"We can't accept such an additional demand," he said. "No one in Iran can make a decision to deny the nation of something that is a source of pride."
Kharrazi condemned a draft resolution critical of Iran, drawn up by Germany, France, and Britain and being debated before the IAEA board meeting tomorrow, which says Iran's cooperation with the agency has not been complete.
The minister said insistence by Europeans on "very tiny issues is contrary to the spirit of cooperation." He said that by doing so, the European countries are bowing to U.S. pressure and showing a "lack of independence."
Now look at the meeting in Turkey this week and look at the rise in attacks and the walking out by mormo Libia at the meeting in Tunisa he was pissed at the Arab Plan
Start your eng.s Boys??
IAEA to Review Iran's Nuclear Program
NewsMax Wires
Monday, June 14, 2004
The International Atomic Energy Agency starts a week of executive meetings Monday, with Iran's nuclear program high on the agenda. Iran said Saturday it will not accept further limitations on the program, which it says is purely for peaceful purposes.
The IAEA Board of Governors is to debate a European draft resolution calling for Iran to halt its uranium-enrichment program and stop work on a heavy-water reactor that could produce bomb-grade plutonium.
Fox garding the hen house???
Internet Jihad
By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 16, 2003
A Saudi radical Muslim group, the Brigade of the Two Holy Mosques, sent a threat last Wednesday to the House of Saud and its subjects: “We are warning anyone who cooperates with the authorities or gives the tyrants information leading to the arrest of one of the mujahidin. He will be liquidated.” The next day, a man identifying himself as “Daleel Al-Mojahid” (Guide for the jihad warrior) and claiming affiliation with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda issued his own warning to those participating in last weekend’s Loya Jirga council in Afghanistan: “We . . . assure you and send you our coming news that we will start killing all the (loya Jerga) council that is due to start elections, we have sent them all messages warning them that if any of them show up in the elections they will be killed directly on our hands.”
Red herring??
Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:42 a.m. EDT
WSJ: Precursor WMDs Stockpiled in Iraq
Far from being an isolated incident, yesterday's discovery in Iraq of an artillery shell filled with Sarin gas is just the tip of the iceberg of recently uncovered evidence that Saddam Hussein had a weapons of mass destruction program that was fully operational until the U.S. invaded in March 2003.
Tuesday's Wall Street Journal reports that the U.S. inspectors have found within the last few months "warehouses full of commercial and agricultural chemicals," which, if mixed and packaged properly, "could quickly become chemical weapons."
U.S. forces in Karabala have also recently uncovered 55-gallon drums loaded with chemicals that were said to be "pesticide," some of which were stored in what military sources described as a "camouflaged bunker complex."
Why camouflage insect spray?
The alleged agricultural site just happened to be located alongside a military ammunition dump, reports Insight Magazine.
According to the Journal, Iraq Survey Group head Charles Duelfer recently told Congress that some of Saddam's WMD facilities were newly built and contained "stockpiled" raw materials that would have allowed him to "produce such weapons on a moment's notice."
There's more.
In early April, Jordanian authorities foiled an al Qaida plot to kill 80,000 people in chemical weapons attack in Amman.
According to one of the conspirators whose confession was broadcast on Jordanian TV, al Qaida WMD specialist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was last seen in a chilling video beheading Nick Berg, trained and outfitted the WMD attackers in pre-war Iraq.
The stuff is there and in Iran Look at where the eyes are being pulled from not to!!
Start loading a few MOABs and other goodys!!!
Iran Massing Troops on Iraq Border
NewsMax Wires
Tuesday, June 15, 2004
Iran reportedly is readying troops to move into Iraq if U.S. troops pull out, leaving a security vacuum.
The Saudi daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, monitored in Beirut, reports Iran has massed four battalions at the border.
Al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted "reliable Iraqi sources" as saying, "Iran moved part of its regular military forces towards the Iraqi border in the southern sector at a time its military intelligence agents were operating inside Iraqi territory."
Woman vows revenge against squirrels
Associated Press
June 16, 2004
LAPORTE, Ind. -- A 78-year-old woman tired of squirrels raiding her bird feeder got out her shotgun to kill the critter,
Good reading! have to go take a shower later people!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PSS
That little old lady is what I love about America!!!!
And short skirts!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Doug,
First of all,in order to be lawful it would have to be applicable to everybody across the board -otherwise, you have no rule of law, just rule of men...like the "Nuremburg laws" of the 1930's.
Secondly, that means that you would have to direct the law against (assuming it was a prohibitive law, which be forewarned are inefficient and difficult to enforce)an activity rather than people or condition. You would have to arrive first at pre-agreed upon definitions,or legal standards that would need to be met, but that would be the easy part, since most civilized jurisprudence (except theocratic)is based on precedent (in other words, all legitimate legislation is, like judgements, based on precedent)
Finally, all would have to agree upon a standard measure of prosecution when the law is transgressed (as defined by the legal standard above) and all would have to ratify the law into their Federal code or constitutional process - in other words, the law would go into effect within the countries that ratified it, as well as internationally.
Advertising !!
How much would it cost to put a full page ad in a major US paper every week explaining exactly what this beatly religion is about with reference to various anti islam sites ?
Could the money not be raised, a fund set up, I live in the UK and would gladly give whatever I could afford.
Any suggestions
PS. My little story about islamaphobia.
I am of indian origin and an athiest.
My dad is Sikh my mum is hindu.
My wife is christian.
we have 2 kids.
I have 1 jehova's witness in my family.
both my kids have been christend at my wifes request, even though I am not "a believer".
We invited all sorts to the christening.
there were christian,sikhs a couple of hindus, a jewish chap, atheists.
We all so invited a moslem couple.
They did not attend, because they could not enter a church.
Now doesn't that say it all ?
lobo91,
While Communism lays claim to not being a religion,Atheism, when codified by the state, (as opposed to an individual simply not believing in a deity or deities)functions as a religion. In fact, Communism gets a foothold more quickly in countries with a clear religious majority or state religion already in place, kind of like a cowbird laying its eggs in someone else's nest.Therefore, at least initially, the "mechanics" of the violence mimic's its host, assuming an already-existing psycological "mantle" until other means, usually involving control of the military, are achieved.
As for the Nazi's, again popularly portrayed as Atheist,they are less like a cowbird, which seldom bear any resemblance to the host,and more like co-opters and poseurs, which is part and parcel of fascism, and as with all Fantasy Ideologies. Nazism first appealed to the Bavarian Catholics,( and subsequently the Axis membership came down to who was Roman Catholic and who was not) who were already joined at the hip to Imperial Romanesque imagery and paraphanalia (to a degree which only a pre-Vatican Council II survivor can appreciate: I have an old photograph from the 1920's of some female member in my family, a teenager with other teenage girls, in some sort of Slovak-Catholic girls group, probably for reciting the rosary or First Fridays or something.Not only are they uniformed, but their middle-aged male leader is a dead ringer for Herrmann Goering, complete with a fasce-like parade baton, except there's a cross everywhere on the uniforms and paraphenalia where a swaztika would have been.And the photograph was taken in the United States!)and codified male dominance. This was then cleverly blurred together with images of counterfeit Aryan/Norse imagery and mock Pantheism(the only remaining vestige of which is Catherine's naked beaches), evolving into a messianic state religion whose public ceremonies, especially as the war turned,resembled plotless outdoor operas.
We have this from witnesses and Hitler's own writings.
And as far as Communism as a major contender in genocide, if you argue sheer numbers and include the ongoing slaughter of that lunatic in North Korea (don't get me started)then we're getting there fast...if you adjust for world population and technology (although lacking "advanced" nuclear methods, more people died violently south of the Rio Grande between 1900 - 1950 than were alive in the world the year Shakespeare wrote King Lear)you find, historically,there are some former times and places that, well, as one critic said of Titus Andronicus: "If Shakespeare hadn't ended it where he did, they would have killed members of the audience."
P.S. - Sorry I took so long to reply....