It's easy to get in ...

Here's one: a poll of police nationwide (US)- what they say if they can be Anonymous:

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/06/11/National/New-Poll.Says.Police.Chiefs.Expect.Trouble-687719.shtml

Now if I could just get my gun over the Canadian Border... unfortunately things may be a mess by the time we can make a 'household move,' which would (sort of) allow for that...

It is true...although a mile from the falls the water is really dangerous, harsh currents and whirlpools..but further down where the niagara river empties into lake ontario it wouldnt be any problem to cross. We were at the queens royal park beach in niagara-on-the-lake on monday and just across from us was fort niagara in youngstown NY, I commented that it was so close it was easy to see details of the fort and it would be easy enough to just swim over...for the 2 hours we were there 2 military boats patrolled the water, it is difficult with the cameras and patrols but certainly not impossible.

It use to be alot of chinese people that were trying to get into the US...lately it seems more arabs are trying...dont quite know why they bother, these days if your name is mohammud or abdul you can count on at least a 3 hour wait at immigration/customs...perhaps even your car taken apart piece by piece...IMO this is a subtle way of saying "we dont want you here"...which is fine with me, I dont mind the extra wait in line.

Anyone that crosses that rail bridge on foot is an idiot. That is extremely dangerous, not much to hang on to and the water below is moving really quickly and there is a huge whirlpool a few yards down, no chance of coming out of that alive (in fact the bridge is called the whirlpool bridge) There are several cameras on the bridge now and the area is patrolled. Security has tightened but if someone wants it bad enough they will find a way.

Islam is OFFICIALLY the fastest growing religion in Canada :)

ALLAHU AKBAR !!

Muslims outnumber Jews in Canada

By GLORIA GALLOWAY
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Canadian census figures show for the first time that Muslims outnumber Jews — a demographic that could ultimately affect this country's position toward the protracted Middle East conflict.

When the 1991 census was taken, about 25 per cent more people said they were Jewish than Muslim. But immigration from predominantly Muslim countries has reversed that dynamic.

Figures from the 2001 Canadian census released yesterday by Statistics Canada show that the number of people claiming to be of Muslim faith increased by 128.9 per cent to 579,640 in the decade beginning in 1991, making Islam the fastest growing religion in Canada. Two years ago, Muslims made up 2 per cent of this country's population.

The number of Jews also increased during that period, but only by 3.7 per cent to 329,995. And the proportion they represent of the total Canadian population declined to 1.1 per cent from 1.2 per cent.

While Canada has, in recent years, tried to maintain an evenhanded response to the Mideast crisis, Israel's supporters in Canada's Jewish community have sometimes argued that remaining neutral means siding with Palestinian terrorists. But the growing influence of the Muslim faith may reinforce Canada's desire for neutrality.

"I would have to say with a caution that, yes, of course it is going to have an effect because politicians respond, of course to votes," said John Carson, a professor of Canadian foreign policy at the University of Toronto.

"It's cautious because . . . the group within the domestic scene that supports Israel is organized, wealthy and focused. Unfortunately, many of the Muslims are not well organized, and not particularly wealthy — with some exceptions, of course — and they are not particularly focused."

And while most Muslims do support the Palestinians in the Mideast conflict, many come from places like Indonesia and Pakistan where the troubles in Israel are secondary concerns, he said.

Howard English, director of marketing and communications for United Jewish Appeal of Greater Toronto, discounts the notion that the Jewish community may lose influence as its piece of the demographic pie shrinks.

"The extent to which any group can influence elected officials is based in very large measure on the strength of arguments put forward and the skill with which you put forward those arguments," Mr. English said.

In addition, the census numbers do not take into account people who may consider themselves ethnically to be Jews but do not list Judaism as their religion, he said. And, in any event, he added, his group believes in harmonious relations between different ethnic groups and sees diversity as a positive force.

Wahida Valiante, national vice-president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, has watched her community's ranks swell since she arrived at Montreal's Concordia University in 1961.

"When I came here, I remember going to my college and saying 'Do you have any Muslim students' federations?' And they said 'Muslim? What's that?' Nobody really knew in Montreal what Muslims were," Ms. Valiante said.

That has changed, of course. But she believes it will be some time before people of her faith have a major voice in Canadian policy.

"The numbers don't say much unless the citizens that are being numbered play some active role," Ms. Valiante said. "Our lawyers are not in the thousands. Our social workers are not in the thousands. We're not in the government. Nobody calls us up and says 'listen, we've got this problem in the Middle East, can you come and consult with us?' So we don't have that kind of clout."

But it may be coming, she said, pointing out that the median age of Muslims in Canada in 2001 was 28.1. The national median was 37.3. And the median of the Jewish population was 45.1. So the Muslims constitute a young population with years to mature into Canadian leaders.

In the meantime, the churches that spawned the old generation of Canada's power elite are on the wane. The number of Canadians who said they were Protestant declined by 772,830 to 8,654,845 between 1991 and 2001, leaving the religion with 29.2 per cent of the population.

Roman Catholics, on the other hand, increased their ranks by 589,500 to 12,793,125 as a result of immigration from countries like the Philippines where that faith is still strong. Catholics outnumbered Protestants for the first time in 1971 and Catholicism continues to be the dominant religion in Canada with 43.2 per cent of the population claiming to follow its doctrines.

It seems the biggest blow to the Protestant churches was — and continues to be — a drift away from organized religion.

The number of people who said they had no religion was up by 43.9 per cent between 1991 and 2001 and, perhaps more telling, the number of those identifying themselves simply as Christian with no particular denomination was up by 121.1 per cent to 780,450.

"People have, over the last 20 to 25 years, kind of moved away, not from faith or spirituality, but from institutionalized religion," said Mark McGowan, the principal of St. Michael's College at the University of Toronto.

"They have moved away from the formal disciplines and really personalized it or taken what they want from a variety of different faith perspectives and combined it, made it personal."

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030513.usaid0514/BNStory/National/
=======================================

Your lies, hate and bigotry WONT LAST, Islam on the other hand will LAST FOREVER :)

hehehehehehe I always laugh when I come here reading your hate-filled articles and your comments, more hate please, the more hate and lies you spread about islam, the more people will convert to ISLAM, so PLEASE, I beg you, keep this hate site floating and if you want to open more hate sites, go ahead, PLEASE DO IT :)))))))) YOU ARE DOING US GREAT FAVOUR.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I have a question. Does it seem in any way strange that more and more in the West the solution for avoiding radical Islam (appeasing it) from being transplanted along with the muslim immigrants that are ALLOWED in, is to BAN ALL kinds of religious public manifestations?
They banned the crucifix along with the muslim scarfs in France!!! Stupid or what? To ban a traditional religion that has stood there for centuries in order to appease an immigrant population!!!
soo... It is already obvious that the first impact of muslim immigration has taken place -- the reluctance to emphasize the christian roots of Europe for fear of causiing muslim unrest and liberal outrage!!!
Another impact has been the vote -- if the muslims in France are 14 million (I really dont have a clear number, they may be only 4) that makes 20% of the population!!! 20% is a huge number in any election!
The third impact is economical. It hardly seems probable that France can expell 20% of its population!!!

If our "leaders" dont change their policies, we'll end up making these pathetic computations in all former-christian countries while the Muslim countries will be christian-foreigner-free!

So time to ask tough questions! Who are you Mister Bush, Blair, Zappatero,Chirac,etc. and what are your devious plans?
Why the double standards? We can see through your War Gaming, and we're yet to see that it serves OUR interests. This War on Terror, unless it starts at Home with Sane Policies is a SCAM!!!
Start putting pressure at Home!

It appears that Islam has set its sights for the Middle of the North American contienent, along the U.S. Canadian border area. Here they are radiating out in all directions, and CANADA is making it easy for the Muslim takeover of their country and culture.

But of course the Canadian government wants to share its misery with their neighbor to the south by not keeping up their own border patrols. Why bother as they don't keep up with appropriate background checks and the tracking of immigrants. Thus easy to get in and easy to get out....to the United States.

I have the same complaint about the Mexican government that doesn't try to hide its contempt for U.S. immigration policies and assists illegals to enter through our southern border. Perhaps Canada holds the contemptuous attitude but is "too polite" to say it outloud? Thanks a lot!

Saladin~ you have Always outnumbered the Jews.

And they Always kick your ass.

Please don't make what was unfortunately required for Hiroshima, required for you.

'Cause Hiroshima at least Had survivors.

What we have now is 10,000 times more powerful.

And Israel has them, too.

Looking for Islamic terrorists? Try the Indian reservations in Canada. Truth be told both our borders are porous and granting amnesty does not discourage the illegals.

I have a friend who grew up in Canada. She says that Americans would be shocked if they knew the extent to which many, not all, Canadians feel contempt for the U.S. and its citizens. With that background, I can understand how and why Canada doesn't really care about the number of illegals that flood across our borders, just as Mexico doesn't care or respect our borders either. As to our peace-loving Muslim friend,Saladin, in his reprint of the article about religion in Canada, I was surprised that the Muslim woman interviewed, a Ms. Valiante, said that it would be sometime before people of her faith have a voice in Canadian policies. Didn't Canada just approve of sharia courts for Canadian Muslims?? I would say that it way TOO much of a voice in a country that considers itself a democracy.

The fact is that immigration is a very old problem and it started with the desire for a quick BUCK. What was the root cause of all the racial problems in the US between blacks and whites? Why were the black people so traumatized? Because they were black? Hardly. Because they were artificially pulled out of Africa and sold as Cheap Labour in the North and South American Colonies.
Back then there were lots of Companies that dealt with slave trade for a quick buck, and didnt give a damn about what they were doing.
Today is the same.
My prediction is that immigration will continue. And the tensions that will rise from it will have to be eliminated by making concessions.
I have nothing againts black people so dont take my example as a personal one, but they should have been taken back to Africa THEN.
Ofcourse that was no longer possible. Economically, morally etc. It was TOO LATE.
And as the arab/muslim immigration makes its impact (population growth,votes,religious appeasement and economics) the idea of EVER sending them back is disappearing FAST.
Our societies are once again Artificially Tampered with by financial interest.
Who wins, who looses? Its obvious for me that this War, no matter how we say, is NOT against Islam. Its goal is to eliminate Islamic radicalism that hampers with the population-mix. The uprooting of Islam from our lands seems hardly the goal. Rather the goal is to temper the Islamics Radicals that HINDER with the population mix.

Dont know, this is what it momentarily looks like from a distance... I hope Im wrong.

Indian reservations?? There are muslims on Indian reservations?? We have spent a number of summers with my sons lacrosse team playing on reservations all over ontario and new york and I have yet to see a headscarf or coffee filter hat...I have heard nothing but anti islamic comments from Indians on the reserves...my favorite has to be..."if those muzzies want to see how a real beheading is done have them come over to our reservation"...lets not bring native americans into this, they have their issues like anyone else, but they are not a bad people, they are not killing us, they do not want to convert us...thats just the muslims.

Saladin the Jew-hater:

Fastest growing, perhaps. But, by the time that the muslim masses have procreated to the extent of forming voting blocks, my expectation is that the balance of the Canadian public (Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists) will have effected appropriate governmental/State stricures on islam (see: Singapore for appropriate statutory mechanisms). Just keep in mind, there are only ~600K muslims (legally) in Canada- of a population of ~31M. And there is no way that the State won't enforce s. 28 Charter rights in the face of islamist lunacy.

Now, take your Jew-hating bigotry and piss off.

Eneri:

This has alwys been a pet peeve of mine. The federal governmnt wastes $7.5B/annum on the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs (ie., the "Indian Industry")- and the reserves at Khanesatake and Cornwall permit virtually unlimited transit of guns, drugs and aliens between Canada and the US. Quid pro quo, anyone?

http://www.numbersusa.com
Fax Congress for Free
Stop out of control immigration.

Please call your U.S. Representative today and ask him/her to support two amendments to the Homeland Security Appropriations Act for FY 2005.

The two amendments would go a long way toward reducing illegal immigration.

Your message can be as simple as, "Please vote YES on the Tancredo Amendments to the Homeland Security Appropriations Act on sanctuary cities and on driver's licenses."

You can find your Representative's phone number here:
www.NumbersUSA.com/congressinfo/

Saladin:

Your thought processes are completely incoherent. You must have spent your entire youth memorizing the Qur'an, the Sharia and Ahadith instead of learning to think.

Why would posting hateful things about Islam drive people to convert to Islam?

To apply the same logic, reductio absurdum (you should look that up Saladin), hateful things are written about homosexuals, lesbians and pedophiles all the time and that does not make people want to change their sexual orientation.

Hateful things are written about motorcycle gangs all the time and that does not make people want to become Hells Angels.

Hateful things are written about the members of the Ku Klux Klan and yet this has not resulted in a massive increase in KKK members.

Despite all your hubbub bub, the worst case scenario for the United States and other Western countries is that we will all become like Israel. We will have to spend a large amount of our tax dollars on security surveillance of Muslims internally and large amounts of tax dollars on securing our borders. We will suffer the occasional loss of innocent lives to Islamic terrorists but we will carry on.

The real battle will only come when Muslims become a majority in any Western country. Then, Muslims will try and take political power and impose Sharia. At that point, there will be a civil war, massive ethnic cleansing and new nations created, as per India and almost countless other examples.

And Saladin, you massively overstate the case that every poster on this board hates Muslims. We do not hate you as human beings. What we do hate is your ideology. If you give up the parts of your belief-system and ideology that we have a problem with, namely offensive, violent jihad against non-Muslims with the aim of political control over the whole world and the imposition of dhimmitude, most of us could probably live with your cult. For instance, I am not religious but I am not posting to websites slagging Catholics, Bhuddists, Hindus, Sikhs, Mennonites, Mormons, Scientologists, etc. because the beliefs of these people are not a threat to me.

I live in an area surrounded by Muslims and have many Muslim acquaintances. If they knew what I thought of certain Islamic doctrines, they would probably no longer talk to me but I am good at taqiyya and kitman too. But the point is that I have no problem with these people as people. The problem is your belief-system which forces you to try and take political power in whatever country you happen to be. That is the gist of the problem Saladin.

Islam is here to stay and grow, your lies and bigotry wont last, so you can say all kind of garbbage and crap against me or Islam but this will only make people more eager to study and read about Islam and there where they convert to islam :)

come and check these stories on our forum:

http://www.jamaat.net/jforum/viewforum.php?f=12

I think it is a natural and a completely logical reaction to dislike people who have promised they will kill you unless you change your religion. But you can see just how big-hearted most Westerners are in that they don't hate Muslims personally, but are able to separate the fanatical death-cult cum-political movement from its members. It's a pity most Muslims can't separate the viewpoint of Westerners (or anyone, really) from the individual. If they could, maybe they wouldn't be so fixated upon killing every non-Muslim on earth. Kinda deflates your whole jihadi impulse, wouldn't it?

Salad head, exactly what lies are being spread about Islam that isn't written and in plain view anytime someone opens the unholy Qur'an?

If anyone would know a lie, it'd be you. There are no lies being told, it's all true. Otherwise you wouldn't be defending your blood cult. Islam will last forever, in history. Your culture will not survive.

The Saudis, who have funded much of the terror network, are now under attack. The money will stop, and choke terror off. You should consider voluntary conversion to a real religion, and leave your cult.

Racist,intolerant,and illiterate is no way to go thru life, so you should look into leaving Islam, where the illiteracy rate currently stands at 62%.
If this too is a lie, you may want to call the Islamic Research Foundation International, Inc.

This is where I obtained this information. Stop being such a foolish little Salad head.

Saladin pig,
Muslims have for centuries out numbered jews, but muslim brains are synapse free zones:

16 million jews, and they have won more than 170 noble prizes, 1.2 billion muslims can not afford the combined brainpower to come up with more than 4 noble prizes (2 lived in west). (1 sadat not included, 1 stolen by arafat, never included). So what you say is bullshit and of no value.

One or two stupid american or canadian converts does not constutute a mass conversion. In the east, and africa, islam is loosing ground very quickly. Please pay attention, of new converts to islam (in europe) 72% either convert back to original beliefs, or become athiest. Of those who stay in islam, these converts tend to be the most radical.

Please, Saladin, do not confuse us for stupid muslims

Hey, why argue with Salad Head, don't you know that it's hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent? He's an idiot.

Saladin:

Why should we all want to convert to Islam? We are perfectly happy with who we are now. Why do you think that we would be happier if we converted to Islam?

And besides Saladin, all of us here have studied Islam ad nauseum. I can't speak for everyone here but most of us have probably all read the Qur'an at least once, studied the Sharia and read many Ahadith. We have studied Islam and rejected it. You assume that if people study Islam that they will automatically see its truth and convert. But really for most people who study Islam, the opposite occurs. People in the West who convert to Islam are usually psychologically and emotionally weak people who need a mental scaffolding and social support group and Islam and Muslims certainly fit the bill. After you convert, the cult will take care of your every need - find you a spouse, find you a job, support you if you need help of any kind. I can certainly see the appeal.

However, your cult is strictly focused on the cult members. Your charity towards others is strictly limited to members of your cult. Most Westerners do not have such an exclusive view of charity. That is why we send aid all over the world, really to anyone who needs help. Also, Western countries are not associated by religion. You don't have an organization of Christian states as you have the organization of Islamic states because we do not have such an exclusive view of people.

The problem that you are having logically Saladin is what you believe is what you see. You have heard of the expression, seeing is believing? Well, the reverse is true. Believing is seeing. In order to see reality as it is, you have to see beyond what you believe because your beliefs are literally blinding you.

You should talk to more people outside of your faith. I talk to Muslims every day.

This letter is for saladin and all the other pagan cult of death worshippers.

Escaping “Submission"

By Nonie Darwish

FrontPageMagazine.com | February 11, 2003

I was born and raised as a Moslem in the Middle East culture that has many facets, some of which have a beauty and splendor that I miss to this day. That beauty was the contributions of many different groups. The ancient cultures of Mesopotamia, Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Syria, Morocco, Turkey, Lebanon and --yes-- Israel and the cities of Jerusalem and Mecca enrich the World.
I never give up hope. It is my life’s dream to see Arabs finding a different paradigm in their view of themselves, Israel and the world; to see fear and old habits of hate, archaic prejudices and biases all discarded and replaced by an embrace of goodwill, cooperation and a win-win attitude. The contributions of Judaism, Christianity and classical Islam produced a beautiful and unique culture that has influenced the whole world. How truly beautiful it would be if the cradle of world religions would set an example of respectful coexistence. This is my dream.
But for now I have to wake up and see reality.
This is not the story of my dream coming true; this is the story of my escape from Islam. The reasons I am writing about it can be summed up with three digits: 9/11. Since that day, I have known and seen many other Moslems shying away from Islam, and rightfully so. The relative tolerance of Classical Islam has been gradually eroded, to be replaced by rigid, fanatical fundamentalism. That once beautiful culture is now decaying, stagnant at best, and unable to accommodate other religions or cultures. This sickness is now contaminating the West through the terror of Jihad.
I feel alienated from a religion that has sponsored over 30 years of terrorism, and from the flagrant and arrogant Moslem/Arab support of it. My criticism is not directed at the Koran itself, but at the current Moslem culture and community that has handed over control of Arab society to the most extreme, fanatical Wahabi Islamic sect. Many religions chose to mature out of their intolerant, medieval form. It is now Islam’s turn to seek reformation if they truly care to save their religion’s reputation around the World and to save the world from a major military confrontation. Reasonable Moslems should stand up and realize that people who criticize the current culture of Islam are not the threat to Islam; rather, the silence over and justification of 9/11 by Moslems is Islam’s true enemy.
I believe that the Arab/Moslem world has lost its moral equilibrium and must travel a long road towards reformation. Their paranoia and obsession with Israel as the bogeyman in the neighborhood is becoming increasingly unbelievable, and after the cheering crowds on 9/11, their cause is no longer credible.
Contrary to popular belief, Islam is not flourishing; Islam is rotting out from its core. This is a culture in convulsions, using anything and everything from oil to airplanes and from stones to suicide bombs as weapons against the rest of the World. In my estimation, this is a sure sign of internal struggle, conflict and weakness. Instead of using reason to reform their religion and join the rest of the civilized world in peaceful co-existence, they choose violence through their ancient doctrine of Jihad.
Islam in its present form is almost impossible for many -- myself included -- to practice; strict codes of behavior include prayers 5 times a day, washing and cleanliness before prayers, what you say during prayers, and fasting that does not allow even drinking water from sunrise to sunset. The women’s dress code is impossible to bear in the heat of the Middle Eastern climate. If you’re born a Moslem you remain a Moslem whether you like it or not. Just like the color of your eyes, hair or skin, you are a Moslem. Freedom of thought or choice of one’s religious beliefs is not an option. To be a Moslem is to belong to that bigger holier-than-thou, self-righteous group whom they try, but fail to emulate. Many Moslems find it impossible to live up to Moslem observances and codes of behavior, and at the same time are prohibited even from being exposed to other religions. With no where else to go, they are left in a no-man’s-land, devoid of spirituality and a personal relationship with God, and burdened with guilt. Thus, they end up as part of the large number of the non-practicing Moslems.
The non-practicing Moslems are Moslems who wear Western clothes, do not pray 5 times a day, don’t fast in Ramadan and do not consult with Moslem theology before indulging in many personal and social activities. This is the group the West calls "moderates". However, most of these non-practicing Moslems are staunch defenders of Islam especially in front of non-Moslems and many share the hatred of Jews and Christians. They surrender their society to the extremist Moslems out of guilt and in order to be left alone. Even many Christians in the Middle East have been Islamized out of fear without even knowing it. I learned that recently an Arab Christian group did not condemn terrorism and found it to be a legitimate form of resisting the "occupation."
When I lived in the Middle East, I regarded myself as a non-practicing Moslem. Even though I did not practice or choose Islam and was just born into it, my life together with all people in the Middle East was totally controlled by it. I surrendered to the guilt, the oppressive society and Islamic laws unfavorable to women (I have written an article on this called "Impossible Family Dynamics of Islam"). I often lived a façade, trying always to please others. It took me many years to actually know I am not a Moslem, never have been, nor wanted to be. I had to find great (almost superhuman) inner strength to actually extract myself, my mind and my soul from feeling, being and belonging to Islam.
The word "Islam" means submission; to submit to God and the words of the Koran. Most religions advocate a kind of submission in one form or another. Many Moslems in particular are proud of this meaning. There is beauty in this meaning. It brings internal peace, reliance on the creator in everything a Moslem does, and accepting life’s many challenges and unavoidable pain. One just has to look at the faces of many Moslems praying and see sincere submission.
Total submission, however, is a two-edged sword. Submission in the Moslem world is often misplaced to dictators and people of authority instead of God. Freedom of speech is discouraged and condemned and is replaced by submission. That condition attracts political and religious tyranny.
Many Moslems are very kind and friendly and we often ask why none of them speak out against terrorism. The answer is that there is a hierarchy of ‘submission’ that no one calling him/herself a Moslem can escape from. Many of the non-practicing Moslems who do not follow the commands of the Koran to the letter often support the extremists out of guilt or fear. The end result is a mass of humanity, submitting to the terror of dictatorships in a large hierarchy of an oppressive social structure from top to bottom. It is a dictator’s dream.
Dictatorships in the Middle East are not only enforced from the top, but are part and parcel of the dynamics and structure of the whole society. It is not very difficult to establish and maintain dictatorships in Moslem countries. To live under dictatorship is expected of ‘good’ Moslems. Only one-party systems can exist, not necessarily Islamic but definitely oppressive and dictatorial, veiled by the legitimacy of Islam. The scenes of Saddam Hussein’s hands being kissed by his subjects who look at him with fearful adoration are very common in the Middle East. Fearing Allah has been transferred to fearing "Leader", who behaves like God. Huge posters bearing the portrait of leaders are displayed everywhere you go on Arab streets. There are more songs expressing the love and devotion to Arab leaders than any religious songs praising Allah.
The people also expect their leaders to do miracles, to save them, and take care of them from cradle to grave. This condition spills down to the rest of society. As a child I remember my grandparents’ hands being kissed by poor villagers who needed something. My grandparents often refuse the bowing and the kiss, but are often pleased by it. Servants submit to their masters, workers to their bosses and children to their parents. Maids often have to express total respect and submission and very often to physical and sexual abuse. There is a sad dependency for one’s welfare upon the graces of any one above you in the Moslem hierarchy of submission. Since initiative is stifled, most people wait for things to happen to them rather than change things on their own. Thus dependency becomes the norm. Slavery may have been abolished officially, but it is alive and well in a different form called submission.
The flip side of this submission is that it creates a people who are extremely sensitive to criticism and with chauvinistic impulses. You thus see a loyal, polite Moslem man turn violently angry over the slightest difference of opinion or challenge to the status quo. People explode in illogical overreaction to trivial disagreements.
The first reason for me to escape Islam is that I am an independent thinker and cannot submit totally and blindly to any ideology, especially if society willingly transfers its submission to a dictator, an employer, or any figure of authority. There is no tolerance in Islamic society to differing views; you either submit or pretend, and I couldn’t do either.
In Islamic culture, personal freedom is not an esteemed value, to say the least, and peer pressure wholly regulates one's behavior, including how you pray, how you dress, what you eat, who you befriend, in short, every minute detail of your life. Many Moslems assign to themselves the role of God in enforcing Islamic law. Extreme and cruel forms of punishment are used to guarantee compliance, such as stoning to death and amputation of hands. Profound shaming is often used for people with differing views. Moslems as a group are very critical of each other. Despite my natural inclination to be a moral person, I have deep fear in my heart of Islam. It is depressing, ruthless and oppressive. As a Moslem, I found myself accountable not only to God, but to every other Moslem around me. I remember when I and other non-practicing Moslems went swimming in the Middle East I observed the women with Islamic clothes on the beach covered from head to toe. Some of them envied me as I was having fun in the water while others looked at me with disgust for doing something they could not dare do. A woman could be criticized over simple enjoyments of life such as swimming.
I had to be very conscious of every move I made and every word I said. As long as the façade was maintained I was safe. Behind the scenes, it was a different story. Public behavior in Islam is what counts, while sins prohibited by Islam are alive and well in private. You have no privacy or choice but to conform and live in a straightjacket, at least publicly. Because of the restrictions in public behavior many Moslem women prefer to spend most of their time at home to avoid the stress and hardship of being in the public eye. There is hardly any outdoor activity for Moslem women. Perception is everything. There is no choice but to work around this and live a double life; one life in public and another life in private; one lifestyle in Riyadh opposite to the one in Paris. The use of alcohol or illicit drugs, as well as promiscuous sex, even homosexuality, are great sins in Islam which carry heavy penalties ranging from humiliation to death, yet they are not uncommon among many Moslems.
This is the second reason I cannot belong to the current Islamic culture. I refuse to adhere to superhuman behavior in public and then release the tension and the truth in private. My private and public life are to a large extent in harmony and very similar. I cannot submit to the observing eyes of other Moslems who treat each other as police enforcers of Islamic law. The scene of the women in Afghanistan being herded with a stick because an ankle was exposed just scares the hell out of me.
Moslem children at a very early age undergo horrific indoctrination to hate Jews and Christians. We all had to go through Islamic education breeding fear, anger, Jihad and extreme criticism and rivalry of other religions. We were told stories beyond belief about Jews. We were told Jews were hated by God and should be exterminated. They killed Arab children and pregnant Arab women, break treaties with Arabs! Hearing this about other human beings made me extremely scared. I listened day in and day out to religion teachers who only spoke of an angry God, Hell and Heaven, the battles that Mohammed won and the booty his soldiers got. Jihad and martyrdom was the center piece of Moslem education and the certain road to heaven. I sensed comfort and tolerance of Moslems to violence and feuds between groups.
The mother of a suicide bomber said "Because I love my son, I encouraged him to die a martyr’s death for the sake of Allah." This woman and many others like her are speaking and living a life that is against the normal impulses of Motherhood. The religious and political indoctrination through tyranny pushed her against herself and her child into insanity.
This form of child abuse, serves more than one purpose. Hate is a motivation for Jihad and also causes fear in the hearts of children who reason that they do not want to be the object of that hate. The hate of an enemy helps unite Moslems, especially children, into compliance. To hate is better than being the object of hate like Jews and Christians. When I said I did not like "Shahada" after my father’s death, I was told "you don’t want to get the wrath of Allah". I am still being told (threatened) by that today when I write articles critical of terrorism! No child should have to endure this poison under the name of Religion. As Arab children we were all exposed to this moral contamination, and it should end.
The use of fear and hatred in bringing about compliance of children is a very primitive but very effective and often unconscious human tool that serves keeping your friends together to defend each other from the ‘enemies’. That tactic is used in many oppressive systems and not just Moslem societies; i.e. fascism and communism. It is also found in all societies at all levels and at deferent degrees. Even children playing often use this tactic, to keep a group together and gang up against other children. Children are not only scared into compliance but are also taught that dying in Jihad against the infidels is the highest virtue. This manipulation of human beings has reached an art form in Moslem culture. It is a cruel form of child abuse and should be exposed for what it is. Fathers and sons go to the Mosque to hear a fiery sermon on Jihad. It is an exuberant feeling of cohesion against Satan or Jews, and Arabs use it to bring about cultural cohesion.
The enemy of Islam then becomes a very necessary part of the religion, since it contributes to the unity of Moslems and ensures compliance. This unity has to be fed, cultivated and nourished constantly at all levels of education and Media. The infidels, non-Moslems, are extremely useful in Arab/Moslem cultures. They become the glue that bond many Moslems together as well as the instrument for compliance. There is less cohesion between Moslems rooted in love, compassion, or any common good towards improving the society and economy as a whole. That is why most Moslem countries are economic basket cases, and if it weren’t for oil, the Moslem world might be the poorest on the planet.
Arabs deny their true intensions regarding Jews and Christians when confronted by the West. What they tell each other is different from what they tell non-Moslems. Image and reputation is of utmost importance between Moslems and especially in front of foreigners. Their first instinct is always to lie, even in situations that do not require lying, to show only the good side and shame those who don’t go with the lie for the sake of saving face. As a child and teenager I saw respectable adults who lied to present Islam in a flowery picture. I learned to ignore it and developed an internal sensor to stop hearing it. I could only talk to myself about religion and could never dare tell any one about my thoughts but I had to pretend a lot to survive.
As a child of the fifties and sixties I felt that many Moslem countries were more moderate then than now and looked to the West for modernity and cultural and economic guidance. Only Saudi Arabia was then looked upon as the real Islamic country. This started to get reversed in the 70’s. Saudi Arabia and Moslem extremism replaced that need for change. Oil money from Saudi Arabia got more and more influential in reviving the more extreme form of Islam among more Moderate and poorer Moslem countries. During this period I started noticing a shift from Western influence to more rigid adherence of Islamic law. Many moderate Moslem countries were shamed into rejecting Western influence and encouraged to defy it. Women on their own began wearing Islamic clothes emulating their sisters in Saudi Arabia. All Arab women’s hard work for advancement and legal equality and economic parity with men was eroding. Newspaper articles started promoting Jihad and hate. Saudi money started pouring into poorer neighborhoods to build mosques, not to feed the spiritual needs of the flock, but to further radicalize the vulnerable poor and turn them against their moderate governments. Moslems verbally attacked Christians and Jews violently and openly on loudspeakers of Mosques. Many Christians were the victims of Moslem attacks. I was once visiting a Christian friend during the Friday prayers and witnessed the verbal attacks on Christians and Jews from the mosque’s loudspeakers. My friend looked scared and I was embarrassed and frightened. One day I was criticized by a woman on the street for not wearing Islamic clothes. That did it. That was when I decided to leave the Middle East and move to the USA.
That same Wahabi sect was responsible for 9/11. People like me who escaped the oppressive Moslem society are now facing the same threat right here in the bastion of freedom. Where else would we go if it weren’t for America?
No one should ever believe that 9/11 was for the support of the poor Palestinians. It was a call of warning from Saudi extremists to Western civilization. They announced to us loud and clear "we are coming to Islamize you the same way we did to moderate Arab countries." Saudi Arabia never participated with troops in any war against Israel and I never heard of one Saudi dying in a war between Israel and the Palestinians. All the Saudis want is to spread Islam, be the Mecca of the World and maintain the status quo in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I truly believe that what stopped Yasser Arafat from signing the peace treaty were his bosses in Saudi Arabia and other extreme Arab regimes who are financing him. These regimes do not want the Palestinians to live in peace and become a democracy like Israel. The Palestinians are very smart and educated people and are the victims of Arab Dictatorships who want to keep them as pawns in refugee camps for over a half a century.
No one in this day and age should be killed for choosing another religion. Islam is the only religion in the World that does that. Ironically, many Moslems say they want to start practicing democracy, or at least they claim they want to. How can they talk about freedom to vote when they do not allow freedom of thought in choosing one’s religion? The founding fathers of the United States correctly identified freedom of religion as being of primary importance. The right to vote is meaningless if one has no right to choose one’s religion.
Moslem women can be killed if they choose to marry a non-Moslem, and that was my dilemma when I wanted to marry my Christian husband. That was the main reason why I moved to the USA. The UN should issue an International Proclamation for Freedom of CHOICE of ones’ Religion that Moslem countries would have to adhere to. However, the UN has not shown much strength in rejecting Arab money and influence to issue such a resolution and follow it up.
Because Islam cannot tolerate the free market for religious choice and freedom, non-practicing Moslems are left with the one ideology to practice and that is Socialism. Arab intelligentsia, especially in Arab Media, is mostly Socialists. Many oppressive Arab regimes are really secular socialist rather than Islamic. An example would be the "Baath" party of Syria and Iraq. Many Arab Media figures are openly Socialist and agnostic but package themselves in Islam for reasons of practicality and legitimacy. These Arab media figures, many of whom I know personally quite well, fiercely defend Islam and find excuses for terrorism against the West. You can see them day in and day out on American TV defending the indefensible. I don’t know how they can do it with a straight face. However, behind the scenes they tell a different story and live a different life from that of Islam. They have to please the Moslems to survive and keep their hefty salaries while their Government-run newspapers are losing money. That would have been my destiny in the Middle East; no spiritual life, no inner peace, just playing games to survive. I either would have stayed a non-practicing Moslem or joined the elitist class of Arab socialists. Is it any wonder why the Western liberal media sympathizes with Arab Media?
After I moved to the US, I attended a non-denominational evangelical Church and could not help but compare. The pastor was a peaceful, kind and gentle man and never spoke any ill about other religions, he even prayed for Moslems after 9/11. Love, kindness, grace, forgiveness and elevation of the human spirit were everywhere and among all members of the Church. It was a microcosm of the goodness of the American culture. The pastor embodied what I aspire to be. On the other hand, many Moslem clergy were a source of repulsive and uncompromising anger, rage, hate and subversion. Moslem clerks seek total power and control over their worshipers and forget that only God is in control.
We often hear of Moslem worshipers leaving the Friday prayer to attack Churches and Synagogues. They call us the great Satan because our social ills are not concealed in an open society. On the other hand, many Moslems forget that they too have a great Satan alive and well but hidden in the caves of Afghanistan, in the palaces of Iraq, in their dictatorships and in many Middle East closets. Self criticism is a virtue many Moslem countries need to learn. Mosques are not like churches, families do not attend as a unit. It is not an event where fathers, mothers and children unite in asking for God’s blessings and forgiveness. In the Middle East only men attend Mosques. Mosques spread the word of Allah harshly through loudspeakers heard over miles. There are several mosques in each neighborhood and one often can hear 3 or 4 mosque’s call for prayers at the same time 5 times a day!
It did not take me very long to know where I belong. I now belong to the greatest and most moral country that ever existed on the face of the earth. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights were written by men in the Judeo-Christian tradition who told their citizens that their rights were given to them by their creator. These great men did not try to take any credit since one’s human rights are given by God not by man. Consequently, the citizens lived with relative internal peace and confidence in their government. This graceful country allowed me to practice any religion or no religion and gave me human rights I could only dreamed of under Islam. I am lucky and more than lucky, I am saved.
I was never discriminated against even after 9/11. The reason is that I love this country and grieved with the rest of America following the attack. The key to happiness in America is to love America.
In the church I realized that a religion should bring about the love of all of humanity in my heart and never ever teach hatred of anyone. It should bring out the best in me and all its followers. Jihad, anger and terrorism should not be advocated by any religion. My husband and I were brought to our knees in tears and for the first time I felt I could trust and surrender my heart and soul to the God of peace and love. I said to myself "You, God, are in control! The terrorists might think they are in control, but they are wrong and their culture will suffer eventually by this evil". It was the love of God I was desperate for but never found in Islam. I lived half my life in Islam and my soul was empty and in this Church in the US my soul was revived and nourished with love of all of humanity. I learned what it means to be grateful. Oh God I am grateful for leading me from chaos and confusion to hope and humility in your Way. The US has been blessed by many Churches like this, which other countries emulate instead of envy. I pray for Moslem countries to see the light that all men are created equal and not that all Moslems are created equal. Many come to this great nation in search for material gain which is fine, however, the biggest prize I gained was my religious freedom and to find myself in the glory of God.

Ms. Darwish is an American of Arab/Moslem origin and a former editor and translator.

KAMA,
It seems to me that here is another muslim taking credit for ancient civilizations:
Mesopotamia, Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Syria, Morocco, Turkey, Lebanon and --yes-- Israel. Let us not forget one thing, when these civilizations were at their paramount, arabs and especially muslims were never involved. There was a period of a couple of hundered years that Greek, Persian, and Egyptian knowledge was maintained, but as the Greeks, Jews, Coptics, etc. died or were forced into islam, subsequent results were the degeneration of all knowledge.

sorry turkey and lebanon never existed in ancient times, but they were incorporated by greek and syrian civilizations. Let us not confuse them with today's muslims. No comparison.

It only took one battle for the tide of islam to be halted.

In 780AD something?in central france ? when muslim forces ,outstreched and low in supplies were halted by frankish christian kings. If they were not halted, history of europe and the world might be very differant indeed.

of course, the muslims tried again in 1670? by beseiging vienna. twice europe came under assault by muslim forces.

Don't you have to be a religion to be the fastest growing religion? Cults don't count, Salad head.

how I came to islam ?

By Canadian Muslim

salam alaikum to all

Here is how I came to islam is not how most come to islam from what I have heard.
It was like this, I had grown up in the church, my family as always went to church. We had been to many churches be it baptist, anglican etc.. then it came to a point in my life where alot of what was going on in the church didnt make sence , as well as what the preacher was saying. As well as other things. but when ever I would ask a question all the answer I would get when no one could tell me would be just believe.
Then it came to one day where I was in tears. I prayed to God to Guide me to show me what to believe not what people wanted me to believe. Later I found out the way I prayed was very much like how muslims pray. (cause I was prostraight on the floor) crying and asking God to show me. then not too much later about a week later, I ended up in a christian book store where I was looking through some books and something cought my eye. I found behind all these books a copy of the Quran.(later I found out why there was a copy of the Quran there it was for missionaries to learn about islam inorder to convert muslim well it worked the other way around for me) so I picked it up and I read a bit from it and I knew from that that this is what I was to believe. Later not more than a week I met some muslims on the internet and said shahadah. that is how I came to islam , so by my story it show that Allah truly guides whom he wills.

http://www.jamaat.net/jforum/viewtopic.php?t=89

saladin pig,
For every quote about an idiot who converts to islam, I can provide 100 quotes from people who convert FROM islam.

Please we are not children, nor are we stupid, iliterate muslims who believe all that is said.

Grow up.

SALADIN,
FUNNY HOW ALL YOUR QUOTES AND COMMENTS COME FROM ISLAMIC SITES. NOTICE WE QUOTE FROM ALL SITES. WE HAVE REFUTED ALL OF YOUR DOCTORED PHOTOS, AND IGNORANT COMMENTS. IT IS BETTER TO BELIEVE YOUR OWN LIES, THAN SEE THE TRUTH

Saladin:

We had been to many churches be it baptist, anglican etc.. then it came to a point in my life where alot of what was going on in the church didnt make sence , as well as what the preacher was saying.

Pretty much goes along with what most of us have said about the very small number of Westerners who choose to become Muslims: They tend to be weak-minded fools who are desperately looking for direction.

No different from those who followed Jim Jones or David Koresh into hell, really.

It's a good point, Lobo. Now if Western cultures did a better job of maintaining family ties, social organizations, etc, would all the appeal of Islam (at least to Westerners) go right out the window? I think so. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Saladin,

What is your favorite flavor of Kool Aid?

Saladin:

Look at what Irshad Manji has to say about her Islamic experience:

"The trouble began with Know Your Islam, the primer that I packed in my madressa bag every week. After reading it, I needed to know more about "my" Islam. Why must girls observe the essentials, such as praying five times a day, at an earlier age than boys? Because, Mr. Khaki[Irshad's madressa teacher] told me, girls mature sooner. They reach the "obligatory age" of practice at nine compared to thirteen for boys.

"Then why not reward girls for our maturity by letting us lead prayer?" I asked.

"Girls can't lead prayer."

"What do you mean?"

"Girls aren't permitted."

"Why not?"

"Allah says so."

"What's his reason?"

"Read the Koran."

pp. 13-14, The Trouble with Islam, by Irshad Manji

Irshad then tried to read the Koran in Arabic but found that very difficult as it was not her first language. She later obtained a english language Koran and studied it. She then has this to say about what she found out about why girls can't lead prayer.

"What did I learn about why girls can't lead prayer? I can't tell you right now. Because even if mullahs and madressa teachers supply pat answers, the Koran doesn't."

Ibid., p. 16

Then here is what Irshad has to say about what her madressa teacher had to say about Jews.

"The Jews. It's the other question that perturbed me during my madressa years because the Jews came in for a regular tarring. Mr. Khaki taught us with a straight face that Jews worship moolah, not Allah, and that their idolatry would pollute my piety if I hung out with them. What planet, I wondered, did Mr. Khaki inhabit? Was he wilfully blind to our surroundings? Richmond, a below-sea-level suburb, was more likely to drown in Asian commercial influence than to become submerged by any mountain of money the Jews could stockpile. If Richmond had even one synagogue at the time, I didn't know about it.

Then again, maybe I was an agent of their shadowy power, because I certainly managed to disrupt Mr. Khaki's passionate history lessons with questions about Jews. I remember asking why Prophet Muhammad would have commanded his army to kill an entire Jewish tribe when the Koran supposedly came to him as a message of peace. Mr. Khaki couldn't cope. He shot me a look of contempt, gave an annoyed wave of the hand, and cut short history class, only to hold Koran study next. Me and my big mouth.

A year after I bought my English-language Koran, Mr. Khaki and I reached an impasse. Nothing I had read so far convinced me of a Jewish conspiracy. Granted, a year is scarcely enough time to digest the Koran and, at fourteen, there's a lot of mental maturing still to do. I couldn't quite brush off Mr. Khaki's anti-Semitic harangues. Who was I to decide he was full of bunk until I had all the evidence? So I challenged him to provide proof of the Jewish plot. What he provided was an ultimatum: Either you believe or get out. And if you get out, get out for good.

Really? That's it?

That's it.

With my temples throbbing and my neck sweating under the itchy polyestor chador, I stood up. As I crossed the partition checkpoint, I could have uncovered my head for all the boys to see, but I didn't want to risk the humiliation of of being chased out by an even more scandalized Mr. Khaki. All I could think to do was fling open the madressa's hefty metal door and yell, "Jesus Christ!" A memorable exit, I hoped. Only later would I realize just how memorable. Jesus was a Jew!"

Ibid., pp. 16-17.

Elizabeth: The contempt towards Americans by Canadians that you have reportedly heard about is, in my opinion, very much overblown and is chiefly confined to the liberal left wing PC crowd. This may explain why it likely gets a disproportionate coverage. After looking at examples of U.S. events and news coverage, there appear to be as many or more U.S. citizens (proportionately) with similar viewpoints. One only needs to look at the Berkeley, etc. crowd. They appear to be far worse than anything I have seen in Canada (or at least Toronto).

As for the immigration issue, I believe that most Canadians do care as does the government but lack the same sense of urgency that the U.S. experienced pre Sept. 11. One problem here are various Supreme Court rulings that have largely tied the hands of authorities in dealing with illegal immigrants. Anyone caught in Canada can claim refugee status and play the system like a violin for years - all at taxpayer expense of course.

Saladin:

Just on a personal note, I was raised as a Christian. I went to confirmation classes. And like Irshad Manji, I had more questions than I had answers. However, the minister who taught me was more than helpful in trying to answer my questions. He just could never answer them to my satisfaction.

My break with Christianity came at the end of confirmation classes when I asked the Minister what I would have to say I believed if I wanted to remain a Christian. He told me that I would have to at least confirm that I believed in what was stated in the Nicene Creed. I could not in good conscience do that. I told the Minister that and he accepted my explanation quite gracefully. I could tell he was sad for me but other than that, nothing.

My parents were perturbed but thought that it was my decision to make and they were not going to stop loving me because I decided not to become a Christian.

I was not shunned. I was just accepted for who I was. And I love my parents and family just as much as ever (and vice versa), even if we do not share the same beliefs.

And that is the live and let live attitude that I have today except with Islam because it is the only religion I know of that wants to take my freedom of conscience away.

jp,
Has anyone in these threads pointed out that by virtue of the Immigration Reform Act of 1996 (notice, well before 09/11)we have the most Draconian immigration laws in nearly 100 years?
Those of us who are true conservatives (versus the angry fascist wanabes)understand that all the extra laws in the world do nothing to address the central problem, or as Yeats put it,
"The Toils of All That Be
Heals Not the Primal Fault
It Rains into the Sea,
But Still the Sea is Salt"
the "Primal Fault" in this case being that most bipartisan of political conditions, government corruption. As long as (as the State Department revealed in the summer of 2001) approximately 35,000 women and girls (from Eastern Europe alone!)can be whisked past the INS and straight into the US sex industry, and white supremacist groups can meet and train with Al-Queida and Hamas in Yemen (again as reported by the State Department in 2001)and not be charged under the Neutrality Act by the Justice Department, we are, as one famous and now much-maligned terrorist once predicted,selling (heck, we're giving it away)the rope from which our enemies will surely hang us!
As I have posted elsewhere:
"All the Patriot Acts and Homeland Securities in the world will be of no avail when some "Bubba",having grown tired of passenger train railway sabotage every year around April 15th to 20th, and convinced he's fighting ZOG or The state of Israel, or the IRS or the banning of prayer in schools, parks a Hamas-rented Ryder truck in front of a Federal Building or uses his access as a nuclear power plant custodian to let Al-Quieda in the back door."

Phil:

Not sure what to make of your post. I'll read it
again.

But without doubt the scum outside and inside
the borders take advantage of our feeble immigration
system. This scum includes Jihadists and other
extremists. In fact the US is destination #1 for
all malcontents.
The people of the US do not take
their nationality, heritage, and history seriously.

jp,
That's just it...I'm afraid no one's getting it in the other threads either...the INS isn't feeble, it's corrupt. The airports don't need more security, they weren't applying the security they had. The FAA doesn't need more laws or power - a few months before 09/11 the then head of the FAA Boston Office had staff members going over her head to complain to the Washington office that the virtual legion of security violations concerning American Airlines

Pakistani people call Canadians very stupid people and they laugh at Canadian systems because its so easy to get into Canada. Canada will become next France with no control over muslims. Even city of 'Mississauga' is referred to as 'Muslimssauga'.
Muslim enjoy life in Canada while they persecute Christians in islamic countries.

All I have to say is HATE SITE !!!!!

(sorry, hit the wrong button)
...were being allowed to pile up, unanswered, unchallenged, unprosecuted. Needless to say, the day after 09/11 the CEO of American Airlines quietly retired, and the abovementioned FAA chief was quietly "reassigned".
Corruption, Corruption, Corruption
I'm not yet so far gone as to join that creepy moviemaker Michael Moore and say "Dude! Where's my Country?" but when the greatest country on earth is it's own greatest enemy, and when good, honest patriots on this website tear at each other imstead of working together to address "The Primal Fault"...well...

Phil,

What we need is a broad set of laws so simple that the government can’t screw them up.

The three laws suggested below could be implemented by any country in the EU or in the US, and would drastically cut down on terrorism at home, and overseas. The only debate would be when individual countries had to decide which countries they felt were supporters of terrorism.

A simple set of three workable anti-terror laws:

Anti-Terrorism Finance Act
All nations or groups that contribute monies or support to groups deemed terrorist in nature are hereby declared ineligible for all financial aid.

Undesirable Immigrant Act
Any foreign national coming from a nation deemed a supporter of terrorism is barred from entry into the country. Any foreign national currently residing in the country is subject to deportation if found to be practicing acts sympathetic to terrorist groups.

Border Integrity Act
Immigration authorities are required to fortify all physical borders, and treat any and all illegal border crossing activities as an act of war. Illegal immigrants will be afforded the rights of unlawful enemy combatants as defined by the Geneva Convention.

In execution, the application of the law would be very simple.

Are you from a terrorist nation? Then you don’t get any money.

Are you from a terrorist country? Then you can’t come in.

Are you already here? We’ll give you a chance, but you better not screw up or you’re outta here.

Trying to get in illegally? If the bullets don’t get your attention, I hope you enjoy your stay in a nice prison somewhere.

Of course, this is probably way too simple to actually get implemented but it would work very well across the board, from the EU to the US.

Pete:

If you feel that way check the sources of the articles. If you are reffering about the opinion threads; then dont read them.
Its that simple.

If America is the great Satan, why do these pure people want to come here and be defiled ... unless their intent is to kill us?

Helen - Of course they want to kill us OR use us as their dhimmi-slave labor source by appropriaring our resources and human capital. Have you noticed that the jihadists are making that claim about us? Taqiyya and kitman. Turn the responsibility against the victim.

Saladdin (FYATCYRIO), Muslims are multiplying like crazy but Islam keeps you all on the bottom of the pile. Therefore, any country in which you all become the majority populace is likely to become as backward and despotic as the one from which you all fled because you all refuse to realize that the problem is Islam itself. Islam is a jail that keeps you all in bondage; then you all flee to lands of freedom and bring the jail with you.

The number of Jews are few, in comparison to everybody, but you know what? The number of Jews who have contributed to civilization outstrips that of many faiths, except, perhaps, Christianity. Muslims will never contribute positively and peacefully to society because Islam does not permit it. Islam teaches you all to be thugs, haters, killers, and beheaders of those who do not believe as you do.

Had it not been for the free West that you all so despise, many of the modern innovations that are part of life in Islamic countries (lights, gas, running water, the internet, cars, bicycles, phones) would not exist at all. The great race to the 7th century that Islam is engaged on would ensure that there are no more inventions because you all would kill all the Jews, Christians, and heathens who devise them. What have Muslims invented? The homicide bomb vest. You guys can't even get a rocket to fly straight; even the "father of the Islamic nuclear bomb" stole the design from Europe. Who's developing the nuclear bomb in Iran and elsewhere? China, Russia, and other traitors to the West cuz you guys can't do anything except run back to the 7th Century, kill people, and blow yourselves up.

That's sad and despicable.

Bob Owens,
The only simple part of your plan is the thinking that went into it. All three of your proposed laws already exists either in whole or part. The problem isn't making laws "so simple that the government can’t screw them up" the problem is so-called conservatives not wanting to deal with wide-spread government corruption.Which is a shame, considering corruption is probably the most bi-partisan institution we have currently functioning at the Federal level.

In the final analysis, you can't get much simpler than the Ten Commandments,but people still can't get their heads around that "Thou Shalt Not" thing.....but they're, to the last man, already figuring out an angle...

All I have to say is HATE SITE !!!!!

Posted by Pete at June 16, 2004 03:40 PM

Pete, are you wearing a diaper on your head? With your comments, it appears you are. I think you may want to check it. It appears to be full.

D.C. Watson

You are proving my point, stupid.

Saladin:

If Islam is the fastest growing religion in Canada, would it be Canada's pedophiles who are joining, since they get to meet 28 prepubescent boys when they die.

saladin said, “Islam is OFFICIALLY the fastest growing religion in Canada :)
ALLAHU ASSHOLE !!
Muslims outnumber Jews in Canada”

Yea, but you don’t out number the rednecks, asshole.

“Your grandchildren will experience an exodus from Canada.”

eneri said, ”Looking for Islamic terrorists? Try the Indian reservations in Canada.”

Really? Most of the natives I know don’t seem to like muslims at all. The muslims belief and culture system is way to alien to them.

“Your grandchildren will be assimilated.”

D.C. Watson

You are proving my point, stupid.

Posted by Pete at June 16, 2004 07:21 PM

And the diaper on your head is covering up your point. You have broken your promise. You said you wouldn't return to this site. I'd like to invite you to change your mind and keep commenting on Jihad Watch. However, I hope you have thick skin with that whack frame of mind you possess. Welcome!!

saladin said, “Islam is here to stay and grow, your lies and bigotry wont last, so you can say all kind of garbbage and crap against me or Islam but this will only make people more eager to study and read about Islam and there where they convert to islam “

Come on saladin, you know the whole world hates islam and islamos. Why deny it, just convert to a nice peaceful religion that serves a useful purpose on God’s beautiful little planet and get away from that horrible death cult that you are presently a member of. Trust me, you will be so much happier and well adjusted. Might I suggest Buddhism? I have always had a particular fondness for Buddha and his beliefs, and I am sure you will too once you are deprogrammed.

“Your grandchildren will be well adjusted Buddhists.”

geekpunk said, It only took one battle for the tide of islam to be halted.
In 780AD something?in central france ? when muslim forces ,outstreched and low in supplies were halted by frankish christian kings. If they were not halted, history of europe and the world might be very differant indeed.
of course, the muslims tried again in 1670? by beseiging vienna. twice europe came under assault by muslim forces.

It was October 10, 732, The Battle of Tours, It was won by Charles Martel (Charles “The Hammer”) Leader of the Franks, Grandfather of Charlemagne
.

“Your grandchildren will celebrate October 10th as a WORLD holiday.”

http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/DAILYF/2003/10/daily-10-10-2003.shtml

lobo91 said, “Pretty much goes along with what most of us have said about the very small number of Westerners who choose to become Muslims: They tend to be weak-minded fools who are desperately looking for direction.”

Yea, what can you say about a bunch of guys that need God to tell them which hand to use when they wipe their ass eh?

“Your grandchildren will not worry which hand they use because they will learn to wash them.”

(That saladin gives me soooo much material to work with, thanks saladin!)

D.C. Watson

I will, in fact, post here once in a while, just to see what kind of reactions I get.
I hope "catherine" doesn't find me tho! I'm afraid that she would eat my soul through the comp screen or something. She's fricking whacked in the head!

Oh yeah she is, and you Pete don't have the balls to stand up and take it. Coward

cubed said "Too bad canuck isn't a U.S. citizen--but then maybe he'll be of greater use where he is, eh?"

I think Canada may have a new outlook after June 28th, here's hoping. (Federal Elections)

http://www.ctv.ca/mini/election2004/

"Your grandchildren will be Johnny Canucks"

Cubed:

Flattery will get you almost anything except me on a radio talk show. Besides, a radio talk show of the type you envision (no holds barred honesty)would be taken off the air almost instantly by CAIR and the like. The internet is our only hope. And thank goodness for its invention because otherwise we would be like people in the former Soviet Union communicating by samizdat. Or, we would be meeting furtively in people's homes to discuss Islam and what we should do about it. The internet came along just in time. As Orwell said, "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." And if we didn't have the internet, the truth would be harder to tell.

All we can do Cubed is keep telling everyone we know the truth about Islam. Some people literally refuse to see the truth. I have a close relative to whom I gave a copy of the Sharia. He refuses to even look at it. It is still in its plastic shrink wrap. Wilful blindness like that is very hard to deal with. In fact, I have tried to discuss Islam with this person and he just does not even want to hear it.

He wants to believe that Muslims just want the same things that everyone else wants. That if you somehow stop doing things to make them angry that they will just settle down and be peace loving folks, raise their families and work at their jobs. He doesn't want to hear anything that will upset this vision of his.

It is just like the stupid United Church of Canada. The next thing that you will hear about them is when they have all converted to Islam en masse. They are on the verge of changing their theological position to one that would accept the Qur'an as the word of God and the Prophet Muhammad as a true prophet. As soon as they do that, of course, Muslims will then say that you have all converted. Then, the sh*t will hit the fan. These UCC people don't know what they are dealing with. They are wilfully blind just like my close relative.

cubed and canuck,
Actually, I used to pick up alot of CBC back in the late 80's on and it seemed to me that the topic was not whether there was going to be a dissolution of border between Canada and the US, but when.
It appears that there's more in common with the people in the Central provinces (same "dialect" etc.)and the Central Plains (Dakotas, Nebraska, etc.) that people who wouldn't dream of going to Toronto or New York or Miami or Los Angeles thought nothing of traveling a thousand miles north for a vacation and vice-versa.
Can any of our foreign correspondents confirm this?

Canuck...I agree about the Indian reservations...like I said earlier we spend a great deal of our summer on reservations with the lacrosse team...the Indians cant stand muslims...go tell an Indian woman to wear a tent and cover her face..LOL..and let her boyfriend hit her, the ones I met are really tough, they would kick his ass....
and...
I dont know about my grandchildren(none of those for LOTS of years hopefully)....but my 4 boys are HALF johnny canuck...LOL

saladin
christianity is the fastest growing religion ineastern europe, china and the advanced/advancing north eastern asian countries...countries that rely on technology and that are sustaining the rest of the plant and new emerging power houses dont have room for a backward religion they need to move forward.
islam figures are flawed they dont count those that leave islam and those that a forced under the gun
your religion is soaked in blood, violence, people cringe when they hear it , reminds them of terror and the middle ages..that religion cant coexist into the space age.i am sorry but your people will be left behind.the gap between islamic and non islamic countires since the 1960s has widened to the extent that it is not measurable anymore.
democracy which started with the ancient greeks has seen many religions and tyrants come and go your religion will not be the first nor the last
amen

Phil said, “Actually, I used to pick up alot of CBC back in the late 80's on and it seemed to me that the topic was not whether there was going to be a dissolution of border between Canada and the US, but when.”

Don’t get me wrong on this, I think the States are a wonderful place and I can’t think of any outfit I would rather have as friends, neighbors and cousins, but…. I am not sure trading in the Federal government in Ottawa for an even more centralized government in Washington D.C. would be the solution. The provinces in Canada still have a fair amount of autonomy whereas the individual states don’t seem to have that anymore, and I would prefer to keep as much of it as I can.

On the other hand, I want to see more open borders (assuming we stop letting snakes into Canada, who then crawl into the states.) more trade, more people moving back and forth for work, etc, etc. The sort of relationship that we have between Canada and the States creates a very dynamic culture, which is our greatest weapon against islam and the islamos.

On the topic of Great Plains/Western Prairie culture, I totally agree with you on that. I live in the west and I feel completely at home travelling, visiting, working in the western states, where as I don’t feel at home in Toronto or New York. (Never liked big urban centers much)

“Your grandchildren will be forcibly integrated into the west.”

also coming from a land with first hand experience of what islam does you do not convert you become even more christian than before as you realise that islam as a religion is empty, there is no cup of life in it
500 years of slavery made us stronger than ever before, knowledge does not make you convert it makes you repulse see the countries of greece, balkans, armenia, india, russia's for your proof of people whom never converted

Mentat said, “It is just like the stupid United Church of Canada.”

I have a funny story about the UCC. (I hope it sounds as funny in writing as it does when I say it)

About a year ago I got into a discussion with a woman that I work with. Some how we got onto the topic of the United Church of Canada, and I mentioned that I was raised and married in that church but I never attended anymore, nor donated money to them. She asked “Why not?” I said, “Because, it is run by Lesbian, vegetarian, socialists.” She then said, that her sister was a minister in the church and that she was a Lesbian, and was an activist for social justice. (Code words for being a socialist). I said, “that’s nice.”

About a year later I was speaking to the same woman who was mentioning to me that she was hosting a family barbecue that coming weekend and she didn’t know what to cook for her sister and her partner. I said, “what do you mean? Just cook them steaks or hamburgers, right?” She said “No, my sister and her partner became vegetarians and won’t eat meat.”…… I thought to myself… I told you so……..

Ps. before I get too many comments on my attitudes towards gays or vegetarians, I don’t care about either one, it’s the socialists I don’t like, and vegetarian, lesbians who are ministers in the UCC seem to all be socialists for some reason.

“Your grandchildren will be straight, steak-eating, libertarian, apostates.”

canuck,
Thanks, that's what I thought...as far as government, I seem to recall that was the major sticking point, and attitude seemed to fluctuate depending on who was President here and PM there.

I still think the idea has merit, and we'll see it in our lifetimes.

Hello All
I still have friends in the Military who forwarded the following to me today.
Please read & forward to all you know.

Subject: WWW III - While we snooze

: WW III

You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece.

Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, re-set the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again.

In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that alarm has been ringing for years.

U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert.

The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder. The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war?

The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are.

America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.

America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "...it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage, political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't have the backbone to do both Democrat and Republican. This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

Please forward this to as many people as you can especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action.

Considering the number of countries and the number of conflicts and the number of deaths worldwide... I've been saying this for some time now, only to be laughed at and told I don't know what I'm talking about by the liberal and political correct in our society.
You decide - Are we at the level of a world war yet? What will it take to address this problem of terrorrism as it truly is?...not an isolated event.

Phil said,
"canuck,
Thanks, that's what I thought...as far as government, I seem to recall that was the major sticking point, and attitude seemed to fluctuate depending on who was President here and PM there.

I still think the idea has merit, and we'll see it in our lifetimes."

Ok, fine! But you better improve the quality of your beer, and your whiskey too! heheh...

"Your grandchildren will be beer/whiskey drinking Canamericans." (or is that Americanadians???)

to mentat: while i agree with your premise that the internet is a most valuable medium for the intellectual conflict in which we currently find ourselves, i must point out the paradox that the internet (as well as cell phones) brought al qaeda's jihad to our shores. indeed, the rise of mass communications has fomented economic globalization and brought all of the thoughts of the rest of the planet to bear on america. yes, we were once a people quite content in our own paradise of freedom and opportunity, where foreign countries were where you went for a honeymoon or backpacking in college or where a couple of world wars in generations past were fought; and now, every ill-founded idea and political notion has to be debated and contended with because the internet has allowed the rest of the planet to peer into the american mind. hold on to your seats. this ride is just getting started.

Al Qaeda Scaled Back 10-Plane Plot
Attacks Evolved Amid Infighting, 9/11 Panel Reports
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 17, 2004; Page A01

The terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, were originally envisioned as an even more audacious assault involving 10 hijacked jetliners on the East and West coasts, but the plan was scaled back and later plagued by conflicts among al Qaeda's leaders and some of the hijackers themselves, according to a report issued yesterday by the panel investigating the attacks.

Full article @
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45853-2004Jun16.html?referrer=email

KAMA

Honestly, catherines arguments are mostly stupid and the quotes she posts are often meaningless. I do not fear arguing with her. Who knows, I might even be able to talk some (not much) sense into her head. I'm not on either side hear.

Ted:

I agree. We are in for a rough ride.

America created this “ride” 200+ years ago, with a Constitution and Bill of Rights that guarantees free speech and due process. The Internet just extends that.

We own it. We can deal with it. We always have. We always will.

ted,
Every ill-founded idea and political notion has been discussed since the invention of the printing press (and some world's political and religious entities are still getting used to it)there merely were a lot of year-long pauses in the conversation.
But as Jefferson, who was no stranger to intercontinental post, articulated, it needs merely for truth to be free to combat error.