The Hudood laws in Pakistan cover sexual crimes. Under them, women are actually imprisoned for being victims of rape. But these laws will not be changed, even in the new, anti-extremist Pakistan. From Pakistan's Dawn, with thanks to Nicolei:
ISLAMABAD June 15: Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali on Tuesday declared in unequivocal terms that the government will not make any un-Islamic amendment to the Hudood Ordinance under external or individual pressure.Speaking at a meeting of women parliamentarians of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Q at the residence of party president Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, the prime minister said: "Parliament is the proper platform for making or amending any law and whatever changes will be proposed in any law of the land, including the Hudood Ordinance, they will come through parliament." ...
He said the proposed amendments to the Hudood ordinance would first be sent to the Islamic Ideology Council for its advice before taking them to parliament's debate and approval.
He said that in a parliamentary democratic dispensation any amendment could only be brought about through parliament and the parliament itself was not authorized under constitution to pass any law repugnant to Islam.
He, however, said that any man-made law would be considered carefully for amendment for which the government was not in a hurry. He said the government would only follow those principles as had been laid down by Islam.
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Sorry about the constant OTs, but just had a thought:
I seem to recall reading recently, that the UN balked at a certain definition of Genocide, because it left the US out? Or something along those lines.
On top of which, they Refuse to see Genocide anywhere muslims attack/enslave/destroy.
What IF they were able to apply their definition of Genocide to the US? Would this not (somewhere along the line) mean that the US would NOT be permitted to intervene Anywhere without UN approval? Thereby allowing the UNs' favored peoples have a free hand in the world.
Sorry if my thinking is spotty, I am once again suffering from a bad night's sleep. I'm sure one of the big guns here can put it in better terms.
The U.S. gladly supports, with millions of dollars in aid, another Islamic "republic," Pakistan, that has no intention of repealing the shameful and mindless Hudood laws against women or the blasphemy laws used liberally against non-Muslims, where a Muslim only has to claim that a non-Muslim insulted a Quran or their esteemed Prophet and that non-Muslim is soon on his way to torture and death. What wonderful friends the U.S. has! Although this is a bit off-subject, (it would qualify for Dhimmi news) I saw on Fox News yesterday the opening ceremony of a brand new white and blue mosque on the grounds of a U.S. military base outside Baghdad. It is to be used for U.S. Muslim soldiers and Iraqi military personnel and built and paid for by the U.S. military (read U.S. taxpayers)...another attempt to win the "hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people. And, where is the esteemed ACLU and the People for the Separation of Church and State on this issue?? Oh yes, they are very busy making sure that a tiny cross in the background of the seal of California is taken off so it doesn't offend anyone. They will probably deal with the cost of the mosque later!!!
Imagine what Law and Order: SVU must be like in Islamabad!
What gets me is that no one who supports these laws seems to care how unjust they are or how much social discord they encourage in the body politic. These laws are literally a license to rape.
All the supporters seem to care about is following the letter of the law without bothering to consider the content of the law.
Another of example of how in Islam, it's halal and haram that are important -- not right and wrong.
"What is real Islam?" Discussion here:
http://www.bearstrong.net/warblog/000732.html#comments
Susan,
Don't forget intentions, appearances, and "dialogue".
Susan,
I whole-heartedly comply. The restrictions are so absurd that, de facto, rape is not illegal under the sharia law.
And what about sexual abuse of children? Do they need four witnesses too?
Doesn't anyone think it strange that only in Catholic and protestant churches are there allegations of child sexual abuse, but nothing is heard about muslims doing the same?
Do pedophiles abstain from becoming muslims and only become christians? Strange, since Mohammed himself was a pedophile, and one would think that pedophiles would feel a bond with him.
Sexual abuse of children in Islamic countries is widespread, but kept secret, under the rug just like homosexuality and spousal abuse is.
And Citizen, be fair, catholic preachers aren't the only ones who have done sexual crimes against children, So have protestants, Anglicans, United and just about every church.
Also boy scouts leaders, gym teachers, and school teachers, or any profession which involves contact with children.
It's not the church that condones these acts. But, what is disappointing is the church didn't act on it quickly or properly. Nor did any other church. Boyscout club, schools or teachers unions etc. regarding churches, one reason is forgiveness is high on the churches rules.
Pedophiles infiltrate ANY profession where they can get in close, unsupervised contact with children, and gay males are 10 times more likely to have those tendencies, yet any attempt to screen those people results in cries of discrimination, homophobia etc, while on the other end of the homosexual agenda they are pushing to lower the age of consent.
I agree the Churches should be MUCH more guarded against types entering a position of trust like that, but so should all entities, sports clubs, schools etc.
Oh darn, banned again. maybe it's because I forgot the * instead of an 'i' in a word I typed.
Mohammed the "Prophet" who never prophesized.
May God help them for they havent a clue.
Nathan,
I know that it's not only in the Catholic church where sexual abuse of children happens. The point that I was trying, (not very well) to make, was that, these victims are able to come forward and expose their abusers, whether they be catholic or protestant.
Are victims of sexual abuse that happens in mosques from imams in the Islamic religion able to come forth, even in western countries like Europe and North America?
What about their parents living in western countries? Has one heard any muslim parents accuse their imams of abusing their children?
Unfortunately, for the most part that is true, although I do recall an article here not too long ago about sexual abuse by the Imams. Jeff Goldberg also had an article in the New Yorker a while back about the homosexuality in Taliban schools in Pakistan.
I sent the article to all the women I know.
They can't believe it is true. It just shocks their senses.
According to civil rights and women's NGOs, rape and other violent crimes against women have increased in Pakistan after the implementation of the Hudood laws. Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) says that more than one woman is raped every two hours.
Re: http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG4_sub.asp?ccode=ENG4&newscode=53278
Under hudood laws, only Muslim men can testify as Muslim women and non Muslims’ testimonies are not accepted/valid in hudood courts. Adultery (for married persons) and apostasy are capital crimes under hudood laws that warrants a mandatory death sentence, women. Technically a Muslim men can enter a non-Muslim home and rape the women in front of her family members and none of the non-Muslims’ testimony will be valid in the hudood court.
Rape and adultery in Pakistan are zina (sexual crimes) and to convict a man of rape, the testimonies of four Muslim males of good character are needed. In the entire legal history of the Islamic world, there has not been one single case of a rape conviction based on that 4 male witness requirement. Muslim women have pointed out that if the Muslim men witnesses were of good character, they would have stopped the rape in the first place.
Illegitimate pregnancies are proof of zina (adultery) for women. A women who claims that her pregnancy was a result of her being raped, must produce the four Muslim men witnesses of the crime. Failure to do so will mean that she is guilty of “qazaf” malicious slander/accusation of a Muslim and she will be whipped 80 lashes.
Under hudood laws, murder is also a crime that mandates a death sentence. However it is only for murder that there is an escape clause whereby the murderer can pay blood money to escape punishment. This is on condition that the victim’s family agrees to accept the blood money. In my debates with Muslims in internet forums, I have questioned them why murderers can compensate the victim’s family to escape punishment, but adulterers cannot pay compensation to the cuckolded spouse to escape the death penalty. Most cannot answer, but one actually said that it is because Allah considers adultery to be a far worse crime than murder. However none can answer me when I pointed out that Allah seems to regard material possession more valuable than humans since a murderer can pay compensation to escape punishment while a thief who steals, cannot pay any amount of compensation, even if the victim agrees to it, to escape the mandatory amputation of his/her hand.
Just as “moderate” Muslims are “silent” on Islamic terrorism as the Islamic mullahs have given ample justification by the ample supply of Koran and hadith verses that supports it, they are also “silent” on the hudood as they are being told by their mullahs that the hudood, unlike the western penal code, is not man made, but sacrosanct, for they the very laws given by their wise and merciful Allah. The questioning by any Muslims of the justice of the hudood have been labeled by the fundamentalists as an act of apostasy as it effectively questions Allah.
How does one describe such a religion that frightens and castigates anyone who dares to question the violence and injustices of its religious teachings and laws? In today’s age, I am not aware of any other non-Islamic religionist who will advocate the killing of those who do not subscribe to their beliefs and shout “hallelujahs, praise the Lord” or “praise be to Buddha” as they go about killing and mutilating their prey. Even the Serbs do not praise their god when they committed their atrocities against the Bosnians Muslims. Nor do they us their Bibles to justify their atrocities. How does one describe this religion that can blind over a billion people to its injustices, violence and bigotry? In a word o it is DEMONIC.
Nathan and Nicolei
With homosexuality being swept under the carpet, that means, no doubt, that AIDS is being swept under the carpet. How many AIDS cases are there in Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries? If no-one can talk about homosexuality since it is forbidden, then how can anybody talk about AIDS? And with the possibility of muslim men having 4 wives, then if one of those men have AIDS then he can pass it to all of his 4 wives.
Maybe AIDS can finish off muslims and Islam for good? ( Like KC, I don't hate muslims, I hate Islam, but I'm so desperate to get rid of this EVIL religion that if AIDS finished off the lot of them, I be relieved rather than upset.
Citizen of the World:
Interesting you should ask about Aids. I don't know any statistics, but I met a Canadian nurse who was working in Rhyaddh (Riyadh?). (You can earn fantastic money out there.) She said the hospital was full of Aids cases. Of course officially it doesn't exist.
The problem is of coure the strict morality laws and sexual double standard. Men can screw around as much as they like as long as it's not with Muslim women. So they all go over the border to more liberal countries like Dubhai and screw their tiny minds out (and drink and all the rest).
Of course they then get Aids. Server the bastards right. Shame they infect their wives though.
Interested:
We might get them yet in the end.
Maybe there are statistics somewhere, like the red cross, or some other relief agencies. Spending some time googling around might come up with some answers, But I doubt it, since many Muslim communities are closed off, especially in Saudi Arabia. It wouldn't be very acurrate in any case.
Here is a link to a site and article about AIDS in the Middle East. It is apparently a very serious problem.
http://www.hivaidssearch.com/hiv-aids-links.asp?id=1245
Man, I just read this whole thread and as a result am DEeepressed! Where was all this helpful info for the last 50 years, as the West cozied up to (esp.) the Arab world? Why did the US come down solidly on Egypt's side during the Suez crisis? Why did Great Britain prop up the Arab league against the mostly European Jews in Israel? Oil? Perhaps, but the West could have TAKEN the oil resources with barely a whimper from the camel jockies.
IMHO the vision of millions of Arabs clamouring for our manufactured goods and our sophisticated culture (toilet paper! Yippee!!) blinded us to all other considerations. There's probably a lot more to it than that, but I'm too angry to think about it anymore...
Fercrissake we've FINANCED these miserable SOBs to the point that they now threaten our very existance!!
Is this the kind of 'enlightened moderation' that Musharraf was talking about ? What a hypocrite.
It's very inaccurate, Mentat, the study for Iraq for example, was last updated in 2002, and says less than 1000 adults.
I never bothered looking at the Saudi stats, but I suspect even more inaccurate, considering the widespread perversion there.
The slow extinction of the Assyrian, or Syriac, Christians of northern Iraq, NE Syria, and S Turkey is a tragedy. The first Christian ruler recorded in history is Agbar of Osrhoene, who converted around 170 AD (I won't steal the word revert from the Muslims: the Bible says that since Adam's fall, we've all been born in a state of sin, except for Jesus, so we do need a change). While vassals of the Zoroastrian Sassanians and Muslim Caliphs, the Assyrians spread the faith across Asia, reaching as far as China, where the Xi'an Monument testifies to their efforts in both Tang Wen (唐文) and Syriac. Hence, their missions followed the trade routes and peaceful commerce rather than conquering armies.
I hope that this time, the USA shoves its weight around just enough to hold the new Iraq's feet ot the fire to ensure that this ancient historical community has its rights respected.
There is a depressing pattern. A lot of British colonial officials seem to have been frightfully pro-Muslim. In Malaysia, they pushed a "hands off the Malays" attitude towards Christian missions,(the Dutch, however, allowed proselytism of Muslims, and their churches gained somce converts). In India, there was also considerable cozying up to Islam. In Iraq, the Assyrians were all but abandoned.