Racism in the UK: the BNP and Al-Muhajiroun

OT, but again, related in a sense:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13825

So my question, which will make it related, is: Are there stations like this in England?

Seems to be my morning for for finding examples of how the left Aids Islam. As in, people like Michael Moore.

Another busy weekend prepping for the wedding (5 weeks to go!)

I just back and looked at the Al-Muhajiroun site, if you want to see insanity, look at the letters section, read the questions and then the replys.

We have to get these people out of our country!!!!

England is being destroyed.

This is another article we should all send to our congress members, including the Al-Muhajiroun site, so maybe they can catch a clue.

Even ze Germans are starting to smell the foul wind:

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1432_A_1238924_1_A,00.html

German Parties Reach Immigration Law Agreement

The agreement is set against a background of growing worries over the demographic implications of Germany's low birth rate and aging population, tempered by fears about a possible influx of radical Islamic militants.

Another key aspect of the deal is a rule that makes it easier for immigration officials to deport "hate preachers" -- wording aimed at Islamic extremists operating in Germany -- and to kick out terror suspects without trial. The bill reflects pressure from the CDU for tighter security measures, prompted by the March 11 bombings in Spain that killed nearly 200 people. The alleged mastermind behind the attacks had previously spent time in Germany.

The stroke of midnight in France?

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=25&story_id=8627

French mosque painted with Nazi graffiti

LILLE, France, June 17 (AFP) - A swastika and racist slogans extolling the Nazi genocide have been sprayed on the wall of a mosque in the northern French town of Lens, police said Thursday. The graffiti in black paint read, "Death to Islamists," and "Hitler would have gassed you, long live the pure race SS881488." It was discovered at the weekend and has since been cleaned.

The regional Union for the Algerian Community said in a statement that it was "very perturbed at the resurgence of acts of intolerance, racism and xenophobia. Today it is the mosque at Lens that is paying the consequences." There has been a wave of similar acts of vandalism at Muslim and Jewish sites in recent weeks in northern France.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=25&story_id=8632

Chirac urgess harsh punishment for anti-Semitism

President Jacques Chirac called Wednesday for France to mete out harsh punishment to perpetrators of anti-Semitic crimes after meeting several top representatives of the country's big Jewish community. Chirac expressed a wish "for justice to be done with severity, for sentences to be exemplary and that they be widely publicised," said the president's spokeswoman Catherine Colonna.

She was speaking after Chirac received Jewish leaders including the head of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France, Roger Cukierman and the country's senior rabbi, Joseph Struck. France has recorded a surge in anti-Jewish acts since the latest Israeli-Palestinian conflict started in September 2000. The country is home to Europe's biggest communities of Muslims and Jews: five million and 600,000 respectively.

As far as the low birth rate in Europe and Germany is concerned, how about bringing immigrants from Central and South American countries? They're Catholic, and tend to have lots of children dont'they?

I think Spain and Italy tried that and the RoP complained to the EU Court of Human Rights. The EU Court told Spain and Italy that was not allowed. Spain and Italy wanted to bring in Latin Americans and Filipinos (both from Catholic countries).

I think it is moronic that in Europe no one is allowed to express anti-Islamic feeling. The result of repressing it will be that Britain, and France, and Spain will explode. It will explode with the extermination of the Muhamedans who have come to conquer. The cockaroaches think that those being nice to them are weak because of it. Well, Europe is not weak, and it will eradicate this cancer when it becomes necesary. Death to Islam, Every Mohammed is a legitimate target.

I don't live in Britain but I would certainly
vote for BNP or UKIP.

Call me a racist, I don't care.

For Americans I ask this... when I we going to
have a choice in the country? All we have is
tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum running for president.

Bush and Kerry are empty suits.

The Myth
"Britain (or usually Europe) has a declining population and work force".

The Facts
The British population is officially projected to increase by 5.6 million by 2031 (85% of this is due to immigration). The work force will also increase, partly because women will be working longer, With a fertility rate of 1.64, Britain is in a completely different situation from Italy and Spain whose fertility rate is about 1.2. It is therefore misleading to treat Europe as a single entity for this purpose.

For more facts about immigration in the UK go here

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/default.asp?menu=faqs&page=faqs.asp

The UKIP and the BNP are not the same kind of thing at all. The UKIP have no racist agenda, they just want out of Europe. The BNP, though they have re-branded themselves, are evil racist scum. Many of them deny the holocaust. They are not just nice people raising legitimate concerns about immigration, though concerns about imigration of Muslims are perfectly legitimate. They target Jews, all Asians, including Hindus and black people including harmless old Auntie Winnie who sings in the Church choir.

The whole race thing is a red herring - Islam is not a race it is an ideology akin to Communism and Facism and must be tackled as such. First step, remove charitable status from Mosques, Islamic schools etc.

This is the BNP website

http://www.bnp.org.uk/

Best to take alook at what they say before making judgements. The lefties in this country call them racist and nazis but where is the racism on this site?

This is the only party that are willing to take a hard stand against the mass immigration of people who have no respect for our culture, laws and country.

The leftist cries of racism stem from the fact that racists are more likely to vote for the BNP that for the other parties. But if a racism votes for Labour or the concervatives then does that automatically make these parties racism?

The answer is no!

@ Interested can you post some links to show BNP's racism. I would be interested to see this evidence.

Thanks

P.s You will find that many of their votes were made up by people who are making a protest against immigration. The BNP recieved 850,000 votes this election. So are nearly one million British people racist scum?

How can we (the britsh public be called ) rascist the bigots and liberals of the country are the biggest push-overs in the world when it comes to so-called "asylum seekers" piling in.The rest are like me they don't like the fact that there is no room for more of these foreigners and yet our taxes are still going to pay for their benefits housing, not to mention the NHS and nothing is being done to stop them (we get all the shit that France doesn't want). Add to this the fact that the vastmajority of them are the most rascist ,hateful neanderthals on the planet,not to mention importing terrorists/ism (i.e-muslims) and it's not hard to see where the British Nationals Party are coming from , it's about time there was someone up there in parliament speaking up about this "asylum seeker" epidemic, Tony Blair and his government just don't seem to give a damn that A)We don't want them here fuck multi-cultural,fuck tolerance!! B)They are the enemy , they hate us all ,want us all dead and will lead to this country becoming a battle zone (if a white person walks through a muslim area ,unless it's a drug-addict i.e- a customer, then they are on "their" territory and are treated as an intruder ) Are these the kind of people Blair want living on his native soil ?If so why doesn't he bugger off to live in Iraq? To all liberals : IF YOU WANT TO EMBRACE ISLAM ,PROTECT THEIR KIND AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUR OWN KIND, AND IF YOU WANT TO KISS THEIR ARSES AND SHOW THEM THAT YOU ARE WEAK THEN CARRY ON , BUT DON'T EXPECT THE REST OF US TO SWALLOW OUR OPINIONS AND WALK AROUND ON EGG-SHELLS, THIS IS OUR COUNTRY!!!

The government let muslims litter this country but they don't have to live with/near them.

Interested,
I'd rather be rascist scum than idiots like you that call people rascist and yet kiss the arses of muslims who are the biggest rascists on the planet and would kill you in a heartbeat.Don't you realise they see behavior such as yours a weakness, what do you think you'll get out of speaking out in favour of them? Respect? I don't think so ,unless of course you're thinking of converting!

Let us face it: to the Left, who are so intent on destroying the West in any way possible, anything that stands in the way of their goal is "racist."

I'm not speaking in favour of Islam, and I'm not an idiot (abusing other posters achieves nothing). I am simply pointing out that Islam is not a race. This has a number of implications - the most important of which is that it is not racist to object to it or to oppose the immigration of Muslims.

Have a look at this on the BNP and holocaust denial.

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/stories/BNPholocaustdenial.htm

Any Jews out there still support them?

It is completely wrong to let one's understandable objections to Islam make one support evil bastards like the BNP.

Nik, BNP are run by convicted racist thugs. They have picked up on people's fears on immigration. They are racist, browse their web site, read their articles and you will see it very plainly. They are NOT the answer, however, they have been a catalyst for New Labour to change their view slightly on the multiculturism "experiment". Race tensions in certain parts of Britain are just below the surface and riots have occurred at various times since the 50s. "Managed immigration" does NOT equate to racism in my opinion. It means just that, balancing immigration so that no single group becomes an overwhelming force on the local communities causing a danger to the locals and themselves. You just can't dump thousands of immigrants into a community without educating that community and consulting them. It has to be managed in a way that both sides know what is expected of them. The BNP would gladly round up "the darkies" and send them back. Their slogan used to be "There is no black in the Union Jack, send the b*s back". Not officially of course but in the 80s it was an often ditty shouted from the terraces of some football clubs.
Never vote BNP. Do not give then the credibilty they do not deserve.

Racism!

When I hear of a person - or group - denounced as
racist I now am more curious than repelled.

So many innocents have been tarred with the appellation
I know don't know what "racism" means.

It seems to mean "I disagree with you and think
you are a bad person".

AMERICA: YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BE GUILTY ABOUT.

Throw your guilt in the toilet!!!

Oh one other thing, I don't agree with swearing allegiance to the queen. Feck the queen.

The BNP get undeserved support because until recently decent people who wanted to voice concerns about immigration were denied a voice because of political correctness. This is quite wrong. I believe it is evil to discriminate on grounds of colour but that people have a right, indeed a duty, to discriminate on grounds of culture.

The confusion of race and culture has bedevilled any discussion of the problem of Muslims and their lack of integration and has done nobody, Muslim or non-Muslim, any favours.

A concrete example - the headmaster of a school in Bradford with nearly all Muslim intake wanted to encourage the girls to learn to swim against the wishes of their Muslim parents. He was branded a racist. What complete and utter crap.

Some cultures are simply inferior to others, that is just a fact. In my opinion Western culture is broadly superior to all other cultures at the present time, particularly in the areas of human rights, women's rights and free speech. This has nothing whatever to do with race. Whites are in no way superior or inferior to blacks or asians.

Like I said most of the votes for the BNP were votes to protest against this govenments policy on immigration other facts which they refuse to address. Point to another political party who take a hard stance against imigration and people will vote for them instead.

I have nothing against Jews, and people of different races. The colour of someones skin is meaningless to me.

On the other hand I would like to see the number of illegal imigrant many of whom are Muslims to be removed from this country and an end to Governmental pandering to this group. A vote for the BNP is to shake up the other political parties and to get them to listen to the ordinary British people.

I agree that most votes for the BNP are protest votes. Even Sikh groups have supported them in the past because they were being persecuted by Muslims and the BNP was the only political party that would listen to them.

If normal political parties would acknowledge what is happening in the UK with the Islamic invasion, the BNP would shrivel up and die soon enough.

Bob, are you slightly new Labor, or what? Most of the statistics on immigration cited in this thread were dug out from UK MigrationWatch (an independent think tank). They have put research, and some numbers into what had been a practically fact-free debate about the subject of UK immigration.

If I could have voted the MigrationWatch ticket, I would have. But they were not on the list. The BNP were. Sometimes, high-minded abstention isn't enough.

The purpose was to give the governors-that-be a good kicking; and to keep kicking until they take notice. I think Guy Fawkes had the same idea - IRA a lineal descendent, right Bob?

Sam:

I don't live in the UK so I am not up to speed on New Labour. I couldn't bring myself to vote BNP and their racist agenda.

Can you rephrase your question "IRA a lineal descendent" before I respond.

Bob,

Not a question, a statement. As you say "Feck the Queen".

The BNP recieved 850,000 votes this election. So are nearly one million British people racist scum?

I'd put the number of scummy Brits far higher than that, and I am one.

Sam:

What does your statement mean, you asked me to agree to it but I am not sure what you mean.

I didn't mind swearing Alegiance to the Queen, and I'm not British.

I (undersigned)
Do swear that I will be faithful and bear
true allegiance to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, her heirs and successors according to law
so help me God

That was 25 years ago, and I still stand by it.

Bob

"Right Bob?" is not really interrogative. It's assertive, bit like "Feck the Queen". Requires no answer.

Will someone please let me know when Islam becomes a "race". They're so ignorant that they can't even use the correct term.

Instead of building cities for the immigrants, why don't they just keep them out of the country altogether, or ship them to an island?

Oh Muslim, come out from behind that tree and stop giving yourself such a false sense of self-importance.

Sam:
then I am in the dark as to what you are being assertive about. What does "IRA a lineal descendent?" mean ? What are you implying here ?

Howard, whose Rumanian Jewish antecedents were noted as possibly indicating a stiffer spine about Islam, has proved to be a great disappointment. Straw is impossibly ignorant about Islam and about history (just google "Jack Straw" and either "J. B. Kelly" or "Conor Cruise O'Brien" to get the Telegraph article where real historians take note of some of his howlers -- though the greatest one, involving the 1847 Treaty of Erzrum, which Kelly noted in his telephone interview with the writer, Coughlin, was unconscionably left out to fit that damned Procrustean bed of Telegraph prose).

And Blair? Early on, he was ostentatiously waving about a Qur'an, claiming he had "read it" and of course Islam was a fine religion. Just fine. I suspect he does not think so now -- he is not, like Straw, a complete idiot. But for some comments on him (and on Bush) google the highly-amusing, and perceptive Ibn Rawandi ("Ibn Rawandi" and "Blair" should get you something).

Here is the problem. The BNP is doing Allah's work. By being so awful, they are John Siimpson's pro-Islamic dream. Just as in France, where "no one" can vote for Le Pen (by "no one" is meant -- well, our sort, the decent sort, the people you can consider to be human beings, etc.), almost "no one" can vote for the BNP.

And why should they have to? Where are the intelligent members of the major parties who will take the trouble to study Islam, study Qur'an and hadith, read Ibn Warraq, study the websites of the ex-Muslims, read Bat Ye'or, read the buried, or ignored, or insufficiently-appreciated and utilized scholarship on the treatment of non-Muslims (dhimmis) under Islam that is slowly being rediscovered (Armand Abel, Charles Dufourcq, Mary Boyce, Vahakn Dadrian, Speros Vryonis) despite the vast efforts of the apologists or semi-apologists for Islam who now dominate completely the academic study of Islam and the Middle East in this country.

(Parenthetically: it was Shaw who said that the only thing wrong with great wealth was that all the wrong people had it. The same thing could be said about tenure in many American universities, and especially about those who have tenure in departments of Middle Eastern studies. It is a scandal beyond all reckoning. In order to deal with it, the constant vigilance of alumni and their pressure, in turn, on university administrators (including that most vulgar and useful of tools -- the noisy withholding of funds, and not only to the relevant department), students (who are not the complete fools their Muslim instructors take them to be, and have ways to report on, and punish those guilty of, gross classroom malpractice in presenting propaganda and indoctrination in everything fro the choice of materials on the syllabus, to the way classroom "discussion" is conducted, to the way in which exams and papers are graded, often on a scale that simply reflects the student's ability to regurgitate apologetics and the doctrines of Islam)). Outside of the prose of the Raymond Roussel, parentheses within parentheses seldom get such a work-out.

Coming back to the growing European flocks with the little lambs of Eid el-fitr, it is important to recognize that the BNP and Le Pen, while beyond the pale, represent a growing -- and completely justified -- unease about Muslim immigration, even if the full scope of the problem (and the real numbers) are being hidden by the government (in France this is certainly true, and it comes from those who are in the best position to know). best authority).

Why is it so difficult for M.P.s from the major parties to raise the matter of Muslim teachings, Muslim loyalties, the terrible expense that large Muslim populations create (for police, judges, lawyers, and all the rest of the security apparatus) that is completely unlike anything required for non-Muslim immigrants, such as Hindus or Chinese. The BNP is, as I understand it, opposed to all non-white immigration. That is not the problem. The problem is Muslim immigration, and subsequent conversion and subversion from within. This has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with ideology. It is convenient, of course, for all those apologists for Islam to pretend it is about race, for mere invocation of the word "race" so often silences the timorous. A little icy clarity is called for; let's start the clock now.

Hugh:

Unfortunately, Hugh, despite the best efforts of people like yourself and Mr. Spencer, the only thing that will really wake people up en masse is, as Mr. Daniel Pipes frequently states, "education by murder".

Let's face it, the Muslims are smart enough to not start demanding publicly that Sharia be imposed on a whole Western country and calling for the Khalifa publicly until they are the majority in a country. By then it will be too late for that country. Then, there will be a civil war, massive ethnic cleansing and the creation of new countries. Look at North America. The Muslims are tending to congregate smack dab in the centre of North America. Why is that? Is it just a coincidence?

If you read Muslim web sites, one of the constants is that Muslims must all live in the same neighborhood so that then they can live in a Muslim environment with their Muezzin, Halal meat shops, etc.. You see this everywhere they go. They start to congregate in certain areas. Then, people of other religions start to flee those areas. Then those areas become no go areas for the rest of us.

I just recently bought Lee Kuan Yew's, From Third World to First World. He documents how the Muslims tried to do that in Singapore too. The government stepped in and forcibly re-integrated those areas that had become segregated.

He also documents how Muslim children were not performing as well educationally as Chinese and other ethnic groups. Consequently, the government was worried about Muslims not being successfully integrated in the economy, being unemployed and alienated from the rest of society. The government stepped in, called the Muslim leadership in, showed them the facts of Muslim underachievement and the government and the Muslim leadership worked together to address the problem. And it worked!

(Folks. Lee Kuan Yew is a higher intelligence. You really should read his stuff.)

In the West, we just don't have the cojones to do stuff like that. So, we are doomed?

g

Nathan ..I think I love you..

On the conflation of race and culture, the English (not British - the vast majority of immigrants settle in England) must be clear that the wider issues are, indeed, racial, being those of dispossession and deracination. Culture is a chimera. Assimilating the third world into English society may make the daily round less onerous. But it will make no difference to the development of an England in which the indigenes are, by 2100, an ever-declining minority.

If liberal-thinking folk want to call this conclusion racist that is their prerogative. They are making cause with the non-English, which might be very Anti-racist. But in time - I think two decades - their cultural egalitarian project will collapse as the totalitarian regimes of the Soviet bloc collapsed. Old kinships will revive. Freedom will bring contempt for the marxist chains that bind us today and a great desire to reclaim our nation. The rest will depend on our gentleness with those who had come to live among us but whose numbers grew too great.

As for Islam, look to France and Holland for the clash of civilisations, not to England.

Hugh.
I have been reading your comments for sometime now.
Have you considered a blogsite of your own, as well as writing a book.

Hugh:
The BNP seem to be doing muslims work for them. Oppose Islam and you are a racist who votes for the BNP.
There needs to be a specific anti-Islamic party which is NOT anti-Jewish, anti-black, or anti-anything else. Just anti-Islamic, and they need to be intelligent and articulate, and well versed in the Koran.

Cyberpinoy, what is the RoP? When did the EU court prevent Spain and Italy from bringing in more immigrants and on what basis did they do this? I need to know this information, thanks. Please email me privately if you wish.

The unfortunate thing about the BNP is that they are a racist group. They are managing to bury that $hite under the genuine concerns people have about islam. A leopard never changes its spots. They are an insignificant political group anyway. And "for all their sins" I would vote for Margaret Thatcher before that bunch. "New" Labour will have to manage the immigration issue or here come the tories, again, to really bollox things up.

Nathan ..I think I love you..

Posted by kc (england) at June 18, 2004 05:39 PM

Aww, thats so nice of you to say.

others don't though.

I'm proud to be a member of the commonwealth. true Brits are great people, they are always welcome in Canada. Our community wouldn't be the same without our British founding, This particular community I live in has a great history related to our British founders.

Ali Dashti, posted, “LILLE, France, June 17 (AFP) - A swastika and racist slogans extolling the Nazi genocide have been sprayed on the wall of a mosque in the northern French town of Lens, police said Thursday. The graffiti in black paint read, "Death to Islamists," and "Hitler would have gassed you, long live the pure race SS881488." It was discovered at the weekend and has since been cleaned. “

Now am I the only one who sees the irony in this situation?? It is almost humorous. Especially the line about Hitler. Almost reminds me of the line “What would Jesus do?”

“Your grandchildren will be writing graffiti on empty mosques.”

cowboy pete = canuck

not sure how I changed it to that... its those auto-fill features for forms I think.

Mentat,

Muslims won't wait to reach a majority of a population in Europe. That will take too long even with the vast disparity in birth rates (up to 50 years). A more likely scenario is that muslims will use their overwhelming numbers at a local level (backed of course by threats, violence and intimidation) to start setting up de facto ethnic enclaves. This process is already well underway in the suburbs of France and Belgium. In the coming years these areas will expand, becoming more islamised and with a virtual 100% muslim population. The government and local authorities will start to lose control over these areas (if this has not started to happen already) and the governing liberal elites will do absolutely nothing to stop this process, enslaved as they are by their own Marxist/PC dogma. Most ordinary people and the media will carry on pretending everything is just fine, just don’t ask questions or think about what’s going on.

The stark choices in the Europe of the not too distant future will be:

1) Do nothing and watch the islamic enclaves grow ever larger, resulting in eventual complete submission to islam for all.

2) Fight the attempted take over of their countries with the inevitable Balkan type war that will follow.

Either way, things are going to get very unpleasant in large parts of western Europe thanks to the years of short sighted policies of the liberal elites.

I fear the latter.

This is going to be really strange.
The European Union was formed to stop nation states in Europe from fighting each other. But what if Muslim groups within each country take over each country by stealth?
How does one combat that?

I've been conversing with an ex-muslim who lives in the United States. His family accepts his apostacy, and while they see him as a "wayward sheep" they accept his right to leave his religion.
Maybe muslim immigration to the west isn't that bad, if it enables people born in muslim families to leave this religion.

To my British friends: Since you're part of Europe now, maybe there ought to be a concert of the several historically established churches of at least the Protestant countries (England+Scotland, Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Iceland) to press for the evangelization of Muslim immigrants. Here in the States, there's been some attrition of Islamic affiliation among immigrants from historically Muslim populations; largely due to initiatives from smaller, less well-known Christian denominations (we're a sectual breeding ground over here, after all).

Further, don't think the Muslims necessarily wall themselves in. Immigrant Muslim women in New York quickly learn that the local courts will protect them if their husbands are abusive, (it even spreads by word of mouth among those with limited English skills--I've known a judge who's heard a number of such cases through interpreters). The word also gets out that if the local imam's a schmuck, nobody's going to get stoned for missing Friday prayers, etc.

BTW, your country made room for some of my distant relatives fleeing persecution in the ancestral homeland. Don't sell your own country's absorptive abilities short. Your absorptive capabilities didn't come to an end when the Danes and Normans learned to speak English.

Kepha:
I think that you've got it right. I think that christians have got to start evangilizing muslims. I am not a christian, but I would welcome any christian who would evangelize muslims who live in Western countries.

Kepha:
I think that you've got it right. I think that christians have got to start evangilizing muslims. I am not a christian, but I would welcome any christian who would evangelize muslims who live in Western countries.

Kepha/Citizen of the world;

I and many other Christian Brits do evangelise Muslims.

Our Church has quite a big outreach to them, which I'm heavily involved in.
God has given us significant fruit in this area also, we have to hire an extra bus on Sundays to bus them in for the service. (mainly Yemenis and Iranians)

As I've said on numerous occasions here, I'm 'anti-Islam' not 'anti-Muslim'

Regards,
kc

That's fantastic KC.
I'm really glad. If being in the west gives muslims a way out from this evil religion, then perhaps it's not such a bad thing that they're here.
Please keep up the good work!!!!!!!!

Something else KC.
You and all other British citizens have got to petition Tony Blair to allow christian missionaries into Islamic countries. The only way that the war on terror will be won, is if those Islamic countries become christianized.

KC: I'm very heartened to hear of the success of your church in evangelizing Muslim immigrants. What is it that makes Muslims in your part of the world inquire? I knew one individual for whom it was a combination of disgust at extremism and what the Bible actually and truly says.

Citizen of the World: I have similar feelings about immigration.

By the way, I visited the al-Muhaajiroun site. They are indeed bad news. They had a number of articles on what went wrong with the invasions in the 8th century, and why Andalus was lost. I also followed a few links on the Kaplan case in Germany.

Interesting that their name means "refugees". I wonder why they didn't seek refuge in some fraternal Islamic country?

Interested,
My deepest apologies(my post june 18 @10:16am) I totally misread what you were getting at and I agree with you.

Rikki, no worries - it's easy enough to get angry when these people take advantage of our laws and freedoms which they would deny to us at the drop of a hat.

Kepha;
"What is it that makes Muslims in your part of the world inquire? I knew one individual for whom it was a combination of disgust at extremism and what the Bible actually and truly says."

That about sums it up were the Iranians are concerned.
They know they're being lied to by their govt. and they HATE what Islam has done to their country.
Without fail, ALL the Iranian converts that have come to our church have been saved by one of two methods;
a)After receiving prayer, God has healed them of some sickness or another.
b)God has spoken to them in a dream/Jesus has appeared to them in a dream letting them know He's the only way to salvation.

The Yemenis are somewhat different, they are scared to death (literally) of making a commitment to the Lord, but they love being amongst us and hearing about Jesus.
I know one day the Lord will break that stronghold of fear.

Citizen of the world;
I know what you're saying, don't worry though,We have some one bigger than Tony Blair to petition! God has missionaries there already with more going in all the time. I know quite a few, however can't say too much 'over the airwaves'

Have you ever heard of the 'Back to Jerusalem Movement'?
Check this out;
http://www.christianpost.com/archive/2004/01/2004-01-15_asia-408.htm

Regards,
kc

What is wrong with Europeans that they tolerate such overt, organized opposition to the national polity ?

Just how long will the myth of Islam as a religion go unchallenged ?

Objectively, Islam is a cult, an anti-religion.

Where is Moore's documentary on Islam ?

Blert:

I think the "European" toleration of overt, organized opposition to national polities is something they share with North Americans, and we in North America, especially the USA (easy, canuck, Nathan, I don't have anything against Canada--I just know my own country better)also have a share of responsibility for it.

For one thing, America has been a very successful assimilator of immigrants. For a good part of the 20th century, this immigrant-accepting, overtly secular USA seemed to offer a model to Europeans, who had torn themselves to shreds in a series of nationalistic wars that ended in 1945 (with Europe in ruins). Europe also suffered large losses in population during WWII and had long experience with industrial economies in which people simply didn't need large numbers of children--besides, one could always ship the surplus people off to the Americas or Anitpodes.

The question of whether the Western democratic polities can afford a large Islamic influx is a very new one, which was not foreseen by most Western statesmen during the period from the end of WWII and the 1990's. For a long time, it was assumed that traditional religion would play a lessening role in the world (secularist triumphalism), and that traditional theism would adapt and die gracefully, along the lines of Protestant theological liberalism; or morph into harmless personal mysticisms that had no political programs (like Quakerism and Baha'ism).

Intially, Muslim immigration to Europe seemed pretty harmless (as it did to the USA). The Turkish Muslim immigration into Germany occasioned by a German economic growth that far outpaced Germany's population growth (this has also happened to countries that sustained high population growth, too--such as Taiwan, although Taiwan today is preparing to shrink) was originally an economic phenomenon with few political ramifications apart from allowing Turkish dissidents of either the Islamicist Right or Marxist Left to find a refuge. The small-scale immigration of Muslims from former UK possessions also seemed manageable at the time. France also felt a certain moral obligation to thousands of Muslims and family members who fought for France against a pro-Communist Algerian independence movement.

The political problem of militant Islam burst on the scene in 1979, when the Iranian revolution arose simultaneously with the rise of a Christian Right in America (a "bloc" that cracks everytime there's the faintest hope the Democrats will show a little sympathy to pro-life feelings and non-public education). At the time, many in America screamed about a growing "fundamentalist" menace--ignoring the obvious fact that most fundamentalist Protestants elect their elders and pastors, read a sacred book wirtten largely by people without political power, and have no authoritarian political tradition to which they can look as a model.

Europe (and North America)are just now facing the hitherto unconsidered possibility that there are culturally determined limits to the openness of the open society. This was a question which a secularized liberal society was unprepared to face (after all, if we trace Western liberalism to John Locke, we find Locke drawing heavily on his own Puritan past). Only since certain radical movements arose in the Islamic world and had repercussions among Muslim diaspora populations in the West has it become clear that one's ancestral theism really does make a difference.

Angry Infidel,

You wrote:
"Death to Islam, Every Mohammed is a legitimate target"

While it is understandable that someone would think so, to express these sentiments here damages the reputation of the site.
First of all you can never hope that the measure you are proposing will be supported by anyone except a few psychopats.
Muslims can not be blamed for trying to sneak to the West. Wouldn't you if you were born in the garbage dump called "islamic civilization"?

There are more realistic and more effective ways to combat Islam than that. We could start with those who import muslims hords into the West. These traitors wish to destroy our civilization - let's destroy them lest they succeed. It is these Quislings that should be tried for treason and, hopefully, shot. Once the bastards are properly and legally dealt with we could start persuading Muslims to get out of our Christian lands. And of course those who can not be persuaded will be most unceremonially kicked out.