Saudi jihadist preacher preaches in London

According to a poster named Anthony at Harry's Place:

"Funding of the project included Taxpayers money from the European Development Fund, the London Borough of Tower Hamlets, Surestart and the London Development Agency".

This seems to be true. According to FOSIS, the Federation Of Student Islamic Societies in UK and Ireland:
http://www.fosis.org.uk/events/LMC.htm

"FUNDING

The London Muslim Centre is a uniquely community enterprise, with £4 million raised entirely from the ordinary public. Hundreds of volunteers deployed a number of innovative fund-raising methods, from marathons, sponsored brick appeals, auctions and charity dinners. Community projects have also received funding from the European Development Fund, the London Borough of Tower Hamlets, the London Development Agency and many other organisations and bodies.

London Muslim Centre: a commitment to a vibrant London
The launch of the London Muslim Centre is a natural and necessary evolution for the East London Mosque, which itself was launched almost a hundred years ago in 1910. The London Muslim Centre aims to be an important feature on the city’s rich cultural tapestry. It is a British success story, where Britons of all faiths enthusiastically supported and lobbied for the Centre’s promulgation. It is a Muslim success story; where Muslim Londoners have launched a pioneering initiative to actively engage all sections of society. As a Centre used by all faiths and ethnic origins it hopes to foster much-needed engagement and dialogue between all religions and none. This uniquely British Muslim centre will bolster London’s reputation as a vibrant and diverse international city."

I myself am sure this preacher will bolster London’s reputation as a vibrant center for islamic antisemitism. You taxpayers money at work! Why not commit national suicide at once instead of this painful and protracted farce?

Is this not racist and xenophobic alll you muslims out there ? Is it ok for you fuckers to be racist? Yeah thought so!!

Hi everyone:

If you want to hear the other side of the story, you can visit our forum on http://forum.jamaat.net

come on, dont be chickens :)

It's absolutely disgusting that this sub-human was allowed to deliver this "sermon". Mind you, it sounds like every friday sermon in the ME.

Brits should be ashamed allowing this to continue. Expel the bugger immediately, close down the hate centre.

Ban the koran.

Yeah Saladim, I saw your site. It's merely a more polite form of attack. Not to mention, most of the logic is wrong. We expect this though. And since when should we listen to "your side" when it advocates murder? The problem with "your side" is that people are starting to learn more and more about it. And, like Nazism, they don't like what they read.

Open up your mind, Saladim. Don't be scared. It's only the first part that hurts.

Geoff

British taxpayers are already paying jizyah to those who would enslove them and steal their country. Not that we Americans are doing much better; however, at least we ban public funds from being used for building religious structures.

We don't have to pay for the houses of our new slave-masters here.

Hi Geoff:

You are right, people are opening their eyes to find Islam the best thing they can ever have:

ENJOY THE FOLLOWING:

Islamic Britain lures top people

Sunday Times 22 February 2004
MORE than 14,000 white Britons have converted to Islam after becoming disillusioned with western values, according to the first authoritative study of the phenomenon.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/649424.asp

-'' Indeed, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world'' The Economist, London Sept 2003

-BBC: Thousands of Asutralia's Aboriginals are converting to Islam:

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2902315.stm

-Islam is spreading so fast in Mexico:

http://www.finalcall.com/international/mexico07-02-2002.htm

http://www.racematters.org/islamtakesrootinmexico.htm

- EVEN IN HAWAII, MORE AND MORE ARE CONVERTING TO ISLAM:

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2001/Nov/11/ln/ln06a.html

-In South Africa, so many blacks are converting to Islam:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0110/p13s1-woaf.html

-Thousands in Rawanda-Africa are converting to Islam every year:

http://www.xamarcadde.com/rawanda.html

- Hindus in india are converting to Islam in their masses:

http://www.milligazette.com/Archive.../0111200275.htm

- Islam is back to Spain after 500 years:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1002/p07s01-woeu.html

- More and more americans are converting to Islam specially after 9/11:

http://www.yorknewstimes.com/stories/042702/neb_0427020012.shtml

- NEW YORK TIMES: ISLAM ATTRACT THOUSANDS DRAWN BEFORE AND AFTER 9/11:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30D13FA345A0C718EDDA90994D9404482

- The Canadian Globe and Mail: Islam is now the fastest growing religion in Canada:
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030514/UCENSN/TPFront/TopStories

Islam: The Next American Religion?

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/69/story_6982.html

Catholic World News: Exhilarating Time To Be Christian," But Islam Grows Faster

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=16311

U.S. Department of State for International Information programes: Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in America:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/

Muslims outpace Anglicans in UK

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/444572.cms

A Spanish bridge to Islam:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1002/p07s01-woeu.html

Britain Elites are converting to Islam:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/03/286384.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1096872/posts

http://www.lightuponlight.com/islam...ws&new_topic=14

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/artic...erahIslam.shtml

-Islam is also spreading in Ukraine:

http://www.crimeatau.org.ua/project/islam/itriu.html

You see, the more you attack Islam the more people convert to this great religion, so please, keep up the hate, keep up the bigotry, Islam only flourishes and prospers under hardship :)))

Folks, there is hope in Canada.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1086905413247

Islamic law proposal to undergo review

Muslim organization wants to use it for family disputes

Critics fear women would be coerced into participating

CAROLINE MALLAN
QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU CHIEF

The Ontario government will review plans to use Islamic law to settle family disputes before the practice is set to begin in the province.

Attorney-General Michael Bryant told reporters yesterday that the Islamic Institute for Civil Justice — the group that plans to use existing arbitration legislation to apply a form of sharia law to settle disputes in the Muslim community — will not begin until later this year.

"We're looking at what the options are, aware of the fact that the (institute) will not be up and running until later on this year, which permits us time to look at it and look at implications that any proposals that are being put forward might have on the entire arbitrations system and how the Arbitration Act works," Bryant said.

Premier Dalton McGuinty announced this week he has asked Bryant and Sandra Pupatello, the minister responsible for women's issues in his cabinet, to examine the issue in depth and report back to him on the best course of action.

The practice is permitted under the existing Arbitration Act that allows religious groups to resolve civil family disputes within their faith, providing all affected parties give their consent to the process and the outcomes respect Canadian law and human rights codes.

Several legal and women's groups have expressed concern that Muslim women might be coerced by what they label as a male-dominated culture into participating in sharia tribunals without informed consent because of community or religious pressures.

They argue the 1,400-year-old set of rules and laws is flawed because it does not view women as equal and therefore cannot provide equal justice to all parties in disputes, especially on issues of divorce, separation, child custody and division of property.

McGuinty said he shares that concern.

"I want to make sure we are getting this right and a particular concern of mine is whether or not women, who are, as I understand it opting into these arrangements ... I want to make sure they are in fact well informed about their laws under Canadian legislation and Ontario human rights codes."

Controversy arose after the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice made plans to use the 1991 Arbitration Act to settle disputes within the Muslim community. The move required no action on the part of the government, which has not passed any new regulations or laws directly related to sharia and the Arbitration Act.

Officials from the institute have stressed repeatedly that all of the arbitrations — details of which are still being worked out — will be subservient to Canadian law and charter provisions.

Bryant said the Arbitration Act is widely used by a variety of groups, both secular and religious.

"Right now, the Arbitration Act is being relied upon by a number of corporations, businesses, some of which in some cases, are applying religious laws. It's not like someone is coming to the government of Ontario seeking approval or disapproval of it." McGuinty told reporters the practices of people from different faiths should not come ahead of the inherent rights of all Canadians.

"We are saying there is something that takes precedence over all practices and cultures, and those are Canadian values as enshrined in human rights codes and our charter of rights."

Under the act, Hassidic Jews have been running their own Beit Din arbitrations based on Jewish law for years, as have Catholics and Ismaili Muslims. Rulings are binding, but must be consistent with Canadian laws and the Charter of Rights.

One government source said one possible outcome of the review ordered by McGuinty might be mandatory independent legal advice for everyone involved, especially Muslim women who might not appreciate that they have an alternative in the regular courts.

The Canadian Council of Muslim Women, whose 900 members come from a variety of Islamic sects, say Muslim women could be coerced into taking part in sharia tribunals or face family and community ostracism — or worse.

Saladim:

I checked out your site. The usual propaganda. But I like your user counter - 30 registered users, most users ever online - 8. Looks like you have a little work to do, Saladim.

Saladim, instead of touting the usual close-minded propaganda, you should learn how to think.

If Allah does exist, why is it that almost every Muslim majority country, except for those that have oil, is a basket case? Why has Allah favored Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and even China over Muslim countries (not to mention Western civilization)? Why are there other religions? Could all these religions be equally valid? Why is yours the only true one? Why did Allah do away with the Muslim caliphate in 1924? Why did Allah allow Israel to win the 1948 war? Why have Muslims been on the losing side of history for centuries now? Where is Allah? What is he doing? He doesn't seem to be helping you out much.

Dear Saladim,

If you mosey on over to FaithFreedom, you will find many FORMER white converts to Islam, including some from the United Kingdom, who left Islam after finding out what it truly is.

Somehow I doubt the 14,000 white converts you are bragging about in the UK count the ones who leave after a few years of learning about Islamic "peace and tolerance."

Hi all

Harry's place is doing a file on the relationship of the Jews and Mohammed of A.D. 622 the information of that treaty may be suspect as Jewish History states that it was the fact that Mohammed tried to take over the Faith in the God of Abraham passed on to them through Moses and the Prophets; He thought he could put his own Moon God, Allah, up for adoption to the Jews they laughed at him, Worse still he tried to rewrite their Bible.

part of jewish History with Islam
----------------------------------------------------------
It must be pointed out, however, that Jews had a lot less problems with Islam than they did with Christianity. Islam was purely monotheistic, whereas Christianity incorporated a lot of pagan mythology into itself. Islam did not claim that Mohammad was "god" or "son of God" or that God came in three parts. Islam followed many Jewish laws and customs, unlike Christianity which disavowed the law of the Torah in favor of faith in Jesus.
The most important agreement was that Abraham was the father of both the Jews and the Arabs.

The most important agreement was that Abraham was the father of both the Jews (through his son Isaac) and the Arabs (through his son Ishmael). This made the two peoples half-brothers. But the chief disagreement came on the issue whether Mohammed was indeed the last of the prophets to be sent by God and that his word was the final revelation. The Jews found the idea unthinkable.

Their rejection was painful to Mohammed who reacted with hostility toward the Jews and took great pains to pointedly separate Islam from its Jewish roots. The Sabbath was changed to Friday; direction of prayers was changed from Jerusalem to Mecca; most of the Jewish dietary laws were excised from Islam with the exception of the slaughter rituals, prohibition on pork and consumption of blood.

Further, Mohammad maintained that the Jews had distorted their own Bible: Abraham did not attempt to sacrifice Isaac to God at Mount Moriah, one of the hills of Jerusalem; rather, Abraham took Ishmael to Mecca, where he offered to sacrifice him to Allah on the Black Stone of Kaaba.

If Jews had previously rebuffed Mohammed's claims to prophecy, they now openly sneered at what they considered a complete fabrication. This only made things worse. Mohammed's anger and curses against the Jews are recorded in the Koran:

* "And humiliation and wretchedness were stamped upon them, and they were visited with wrath from God."
* "Of all men you will certainly find the Jews ... to be the most intense in hatred of those who believe."
* "Vendors are they of error and are desirous that you go astray from the way ... But God has cursed them for their unbelief."

Some of his followers would interpret such statements as license to purge the world of the Jews. Other Muslims would concentrate more on the commonality of heritage and belief that Mohammed had also emphasized, and they would treat the Jews a bit better.
End of History extract
------------------------------------------------------------
in A.D. 629-631 all 360 Gods of the Pagan Allah Cult were ceremoniously smashed at Kaaba by Mohammed. Allah was then the ONLY God of the Muslims. The Jews were called INFIDELS because they refused to accept Mohammed and ALLAH, the Muslims often quote that the Christian Arabs and the Muslim Arabs always knew God as Allah and say that Islam was tolerant of others religions but the whole area was PAGAN and knew God as Allah long before the Jews or the Christians and it was for the protection of the various clans and tribes that there were treaties wth the Jews.

since preach and rejoice at the killing of westerners (read islamic sites, some in english, i read arabic) then we should follow the example of the wonderful Serbs, Russians, Georgians, and other eastern europeans and slaughter these muslims like lambs at ramadan

muslim pigs,

You preach and scream about how you are devout followers of islam and how nothing can make you change your beliefs. I was in Bosnia in 1995, I saw the shallowness of your faith. The wounded arabs muslims that were captured, as they were bleeding like lambs at ramadan, they did not mention allah, only kept asking to please help them. I saw one imam as he was bleeding and the life was departing his stinking body, he was asking our God (Greek Orthodox) to help him.

You can sit comfortably in you room, and all the muslims in unison can yell “kill the infidels” on TV, but when muslim lives are about to be extinguished, they forget allah and call upon our humanity and our God to help them.

This I have witnessed on many occasions and various countries, muslims are all the same, all talk and yelling, but no real substance.

I have seen muslims killed like pigs, and as the situation continues, I will gladly see more of you muslim pigs slaughtered.

Allah Akbar indeed my cul

Great men like Slobodan Milosovic, Radavan Karijic knew what pig muslims were all about. These brave men understood the dangers of permitting psychotic heathen muslims to live.

May there be many more Srebrenica's.

I ask that Mr. Spencer take down oikonomakis's remarks as advocating and approving of genocide. Thanks!

susan, the advocation and approval of genocide has been advocated by the muslims on these sites for too long. why have you not said a thing at mahmoud's and zena's approval and rejoice at the killing of a buddist holyman.

you should review your own standards and then speak.

Yes, my words are brutal, but for the past week I have read muslims do nothing but support every killing and mutilation done by their brothers. mahmoud rejoiced that the monk was killed in front of his class.

We can want and even need to befriend the muslims that are pro-west, but, please keep in mind that when faced with a choice, the pro-west muslims will become pro-jihad muslims. This I have witnessed on numerous occasions. There are a hundred reasons why someone who is 35 years old in 1997, suddenly changes his mind and becomes anti-islamic.

You in Canada and the west are seeing this phenomena only since 2001, we in the east have been living this jihad phenomena since 627.

May be you should be taken down for not voicing concern at the genocide of christians in: sudan, niger, nigeria, CAR, indonesia, eritrea, and any other place where there is a large muslim percentage.

More in Hawai'i turn to Islam

More in Hawai'i turn to Islam

• Muslim women say head cover is liberating

By Mary Kaye Ritz
Advertiser Religion Writer

Less than three weeks after terrorists struck New York City and Washington, Heather Ramaha stood among a group of women at the mosque in Manoa and recited the shahada in Arabic:

Heather Ramaha, a Navy petty officer, is among those in Hawai'i who have converted to Islam since Sept. 11.
Bruce Asato • The Honolulu Advertiser

"Ash-hadu alla illaha illa Allah. Wa-ash-hadu anna Mohamadan rassulu Allah."

She was testifying that "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah (one true God), and Mohammed is a prophet of God."

By doing so, she became a convert to the Islamic faith, extending a recent national trend.

Some Muslim clerics across the country say they are seeing a fourfold increase in conversions since Sept. 11, when stories about Islam jumped from the back pages of the religion section to front pages worldwide.

Hakim Ouansafi, the president of the Muslim Association of Hawai'i, said that prior to Sept. 11, there had been an average of three converts per month.

In the two months since then, there have been 23.

And oddly enough for a religion that is often perceived as one that cloaks its women from head to foot, the newly converted Westerners tend to be female. Ouansafi said the national ratio of converts is 4-to-1, women to men. Here, he said, it's closer to 2-to-1.

Most Mainland converts are African-Americans, who make up about a third of U.S. Muslims, some of whom found Allah while they were in jail or in recovery from drug or alcohol addiction.

On the West Coast, the men are mainly military, said Ouansafi, and most of the O'ahu converts are former Christians. One's even a single cosmetics saleswoman.

More people are looking into his religion and liking what they see, he says, despite the relentless media coverage of Muslim terrorists.

"Know you find bad people in every religion, and that religion should not be judged by that extreme minority," he said.

One thing Sept. 11 did was remind people that life is too short: "If I'm going to die, I want die a Muslim," a convert told Ouansafi.

Cromwell Crawford, chairman of the religion department at the University of Hawai'i-Manoa, echoed that: The effect of Sept. 11 on the national psyche made all Americans aware of the transience of life.

He described the mood of the country as changing: Singles seek to bond; family members hang together more tightly; and, by extension, the nation's people reach out to one another.

"People are turning to religion both in the institutional sense and in noninstitutional ways," Crawford said, adding that the fallout also is benefiting other religions besides Islam.

Why overwhelmingly women?

"In the expression of this mood, women are moved more readily and more deeply than men," he said. "Go to any church and you'll find more women than men."

He also finds the female students in his classes often show greater insight into ethical issues.

"Women are the more religious of the genders for various reasons," Crawford said. "... Women give birth and so they are in touch with the life process, caretakers of the life cycle by virtue of their biology."

Converting — or "reverting," as Muslims call it since they believe everyone starts life as a Muslim — does not take much besides a sincere belief there is one God, and only one God.

"We believe, as Muslims, once a person reverts to Muslim, all his past sins are forgiven by God," Ouansafi said. "Starts just like a baby that was born."

The conversion ceremony itself is fairly simple, he said. A convert tells of the converting of his or her own free will; then explains the five tenets of faith.

For the ceremony, two witnesses watch as a convert agrees that Jesus was among the great prophets (Ibrahim/Abraham, Mohammed and Moses are among the others), but not God, then speak the same two sentences that Heather Ramaha recited.

Now, Ramaha is incorporating her Islamic faith into her life as a Navy petty officer stationed at Pearl Harbor since July. She doesn't wear her hejab to work as a dental hygienist, but she does wear her head covering when attending services at the mosque. While her husband, a Marine, was away recently, she couldn't quite recite the five daily prayers, all said in Arabic, without his help.

But Ouansafi said the Islamic faith is supposed to be practiced to the best of one's abilities: It's forbidden in the Quran, for example, for pregnant people, travelers and people with diabetes to fast at Ramadan, if fasting means harming oneself.

On a recent Friday — the Islamic equavalent of the weekly Sabbath — Ouansafi spoke at the prayer services about the role of women in Islam, and talked at length in an interview at his office with his wife, Michele Ouansafi, herself a convert, about what draws women to a faith some have called oppressive.

Women are revered in their faith, the Ouansafis said. The wearing of the hejab is for a women's own protection — they are away from the lascivious looks of men. The women pray in different rooms and behind the men so as not to be a distraction when worshippers kneel and place their foreheads to the floor.

"Women are in back because we are the stronger of the two," said Michele Ouansafi with a laugh.

And all the major texts of religions — the Bible, the Torah, the Gospels — "in the Quran, women have more rights," her husband said.

He noted that in the Quran ("the word of God, descended directly on the prophet through Gabriel," said Ouansafi), Eve and Adam were equally at fault for leaving the Garden of Eden. Eve wasn't the seductress. Many of the passages in the Quran are gender-neutral.

And, in Islam, Ouansafi said, the money a man makes goes for the family. The money a woman makes is hers, he said. Women are not obligated to work.

The first feminist was a Muslim known as Khawlah, Ouansafi said.

Khawlah argued with prophet Mohammed, taking issue with how easily her husband could divorce her. All a man had to say was, "You are to be as the back of my mother," which was held by pagans as freeing the husband from any conjugal responsibility but didn't leave the wife free to leave his home or remarry.

Khawlah went to Mohammed to plead her case. He told her to be patient, but she kept arguing. Finally, she took it to a higher authority, and Allah heard and agreed with her.

"Women not only have the right to speak, but to argue with the great prophet," Ouansafi said.

Michele Ouansafi converted after meeting her husband-to-be when he tutored her in Rhode Island in 1986, but she said he never asked her to convert.

"Ours is a faith of attraction, not promotion," said the French Canadian woman with an MBA who works at Earth Tech, an environmental firm, as a contracts administrator.

For those women who see their place in the home, the Islamic faith can be very attractive, said Tamara Albertini, a UH philosophy professor who specializes in Islam and grew up in an Islamic country. The man is responsible for taking care of the earnings, and the woman rules the home.

"The main problem with Islam is: If things don't work out, there's no place to go," she said, noting that a woman needs very strong reasons to leave a marriage. However, if a Muslim man leaves the faith, she can divorce him.

Although Ramaha's husband, Mike, is a lifelong Muslim and a Palestinian who grew up in San Francisco, he was not the reason for her conversion, she said.

"Mike never once tried to get me to convert," the 24-year-old 'Aiea resident said. "He said, 'If you want to do this, you can research it yourself, but I'll love you either way.'"

Ramaha has been searching for a way to explain her new faith to her family in California. She notes that most of their information about Islam comes from the TV movie, "Not Without My Daughter," a story about an American woman, an abusive Iranian husband and a subsequent fight over their child.

"I haven't been able to find a way to tell them without them flipping out," she said. "I haven't told Dad. I tell him I go to the mosque, but I haven't told him I converted yet."

To people who ask her why she would choose a religion that some consider oppressive to women, she responds that they're mixing religion with culture.

"Growing up in the U.S., Islamic faith doesn't have the culture mixed into it," she said.

Ramaha was the first in her family to join a church. At age 5, she befriended the daughter of a non-

denominational pastor and became a Christian. The rest of the family joined later. Her mother is still a churchgoer. But Ramaha said she struggled with the Christian view of the Holy Trinity. In March, she took an online world religions class through a California university.

"I'd been a Christian for 18 years," she said. "There are so many loopholes in that religion. (Islam) opened up so many ideas. ... I felt that in my heart this was the right (one) for me."

As a follow-up, she took an introductory class on Islam in Hawai'i after Sept. 11, she started reading the Quran, and "something clicked." She converted soon after.

"I've always felt drawn to something out there, (otherwise, there's) an emptiness," she said. "The only way I feel complete is when I have a religion, a God to pray to."

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2001/Nov/11/ln/ln06a.html

hey saladin, nice historical name by the way,

1 or 2 stupid american or canadian converts do not constitute world dominance. In the east (middle east, i was born and raised here) muslims are converting to christianity. We christians in the east have seen the destructive effects of the degenerate religion you believe in. Like I said before, we have seen and known your psychotic islam for over 1300 years, and we are striking back.

So sit in you room and surf the web and believe the lies posted on your precious sites. The realities of the world are very different.

Susan, wake up and get out of barbieland so you can see the realities of the world.

I want to know why people need ANY religion? Why not just live your own life, and find your own values from within yourself?
Having read some of the testimonials from some of the people who have converted to Islam, it seems that once a person becomes disillusioned with a religion like christianity, it isn't so hard to convert to another religion like Islam.

It's made me wary of ALL religion, since once one has given up one's life in submission to one religion, it makes it easier to go to another religion.

Saladin,

You've stated how many people are joining Islam. Can you also provide figures for the number of people leaving it as well.

sharon,(nice play on a famous name)
we can wish and we can try all we want, but we can not change the colour of the sun.

religion has always been with us. It helped our less educated ancestors to understand and justify the natural phenomenas. It is here and it shall stay. The concern should be that one and only one religion, islam, advocates the dominance and extermination of others.

Saladim: there may be thousands of converts to Islam, but I have no doubt that there will be many apostates from Islam as well.
And coming from a western culture, they will not passively allow themselves to be bullied into submission.
These western apostates will make it possible for all apostates to one day become free and to proudly declare their apostacy.
So you see, these western conversions to Islam will backfire on you.
I suggest that there should be a World Apostate Day, for all apostates from Islam and other religions.

Sharon; apostaday keeps the muzzie away?
(sorry, couldn't resist; Satan made me do it...)

On a more serious note (only slightly, mind you), religion is necessary human deviant development. It allows relatively small groups to define themselves as different and therefore more 'correct' thereby justifying aggression against all the other groups.
Aggression is normal and desirable. It allows for the cream to rise to the top. I'm not saying it's pleasant, but it is universal throughout plant and animal life.
If we didn't have reigion to justify our aggression, we'd just find other excuses. Peace is
a non-starter and counter-intuitive.
I hold Saladim up as exhibit 'A'. Wordy little bugger isn't he?

Danivan: I'm sorry I don't agree with your views on religion and aggression. Agression can be fulfilled through playing sport or even reaching the top in one's profession. I don't see why that has anything to do with violende or killing people. I very much believe in Peace, even if you don't.

And I think that there are other better ways for people to define themselves than through religon.

Saladin:

The Taliban took control of Afghanistan and installed Sharia law. What happened? Why didn't Afghanistan immediately become perfect and the most powerful country on earth?

Iran is now ruled by Muslim theocrats. Sharia is the law of the land. Apparently, lots of Iranians do not like paradise. As well, all the Mullahs seem to think about is obtaining nuclear weapons. They are not doing their best to create a successful economy for their people. So again I ask you: where is the paradise?

Saudia Arabia is ruled by Sharia. Do you think Saudi Arabia is a paradise?

Egypt is basically ruled by Sharia law. Is Egypt a paradise?

Can't you see that Islam is the problem, not the solution? Islam is making life worse for people not better everywhere that it becomes the law of the land. How long can you deny the evidence of your own eyes?

After learning more about the "true faith" of islam, I became an Apostate & am purchasing a .38 Special in case the word gets out. Could not swallow the pap about mohammed (piss be upon him) being sinless & taking a shine to 6 year old Aisha & raping her at age 9.

Come and sit on shiva da lan with us hindus apostate...you will enjoy :-}

Hi Apostate and Shiva da Lan.

This is for you: I am declaring 13th June to be the official WORLD APOSTATE DAY. This day is for ALL apostates from religion, but especially for Islamic apostates. This day fights for the right for EVERYBODY to apostate from their religion. This day celebrates ALL THOSE APOSTATES who have courageously left their religion, even if it means their own death. Apostate and Shiva, tell as many apostates that you know, that this is the day which they can celebrate on the internet, even if they cannot celebrate it anywhere else.
Best wishes to you all
Sharon

Muslims are inherently untrustworthy. They live in a closed, brainwashed bubble-world, where they are not permitted to think for themselves.

The results of Islam are seen on the trash heap of history.

Saladin:
In your example of a woman who converted to Islam and who said that the hijab protected her from the lacivious looks of men.

I fail to understand how the hijab protects women from the lacivious looks of men. A woman would have to be completely veiled, with a veil over her face, to achieve that wouldn't they? And even that's assuming that there were no men who wouldn't be turned on by that, wouldn't you?

Sharon; but that's the beauty of it Sharon, it's not necessary for your agreement, only that there be Pol Pots, Idi Amins, And of course Saddam Husseins, for Mother Natures purposes to be achieved.
I noticed a bee hanging from the underside of a white daisy this afternoon. Curious, I took a closer look. The bee was 'stuck' to the flower and apparently paralyzed. Clinging to it was a perfectly camoflaged, and much smaller, white spider sucking the life out of the unfortunate insect.
There is NO peace, Sharon.

You have a rather BDSM view of the world. I don't believe that Hitler or Pol Pot are part of nature.
Let's just agree to disagree on this one, ok?

Hello guys

Islam is the best religion despite what all you hypocrates say. It is THE relgion that will take over the world. It has nothing to do with being arabs or americans or europeans, religion has no ethnic barrier, and you must remember that in the arab world there are christians and jews living among muslims. So, all you american hypocrates, wake up and accept Islam. Go and learn about it, instead of watching boring football matches.

How is Islam the best religion in the world? Don't you think that people have the right NOT to be muslims? How do you feel about pagans, including followers of Wicca? Could they live amongst Muslims in the same way that Jews and Christians do?

Sharon,
Seriously, there is a dark side to humanity. I am surprised that you continue to deny that fact and persist on believing that all men/women are "basically good".

Mr Moo

I KNOW that there is a dark side to humanity. The question is SHOULD there be a dark side to humanity, which is what Danivan is implying.

But to be honest, if everybody BELIEVED IN THEIR OWN GOODNESS, then the world would be a much better place than what it is, and more people would be basically good.
As some-one else said, "you may not be what you think you are, but what you think, you are."

Why more women "converts" than men? Well, because it seems to be the way of the world everywhere that women adopt the religion and customs of the men they marry. It just tells us that Muslim men obviously think getting a white woman is a triumph, but they can't marry her until she "converts" - or says she does.

There's also the drama of novelty. And on the surface, it's a good move for attention-seekers.

And I think that a lot of "converts" don't realise that the penalty for apostasy is death. I put "converts" in scare quotes because most of these people are not "converting" out of religious conviction, but because they've fallen for a Muslim and want to marry him/her. Even if things turn sour and they get a divorce after a couple of years, the "convert" can leave the spouse, but not Islam. It will around their neck forever.

This also means that the "convert", on divorce, cannot remarry outside Islam, or the next person they marry also has to convert.

Verity:
Do apostates get killed in Western countries? Shouldn't we do something to help apostates in some way?

fha ffar ,
you are a pig, i am a christian who was born and raised in muslim lands. the only thing i can say is you are not knowledgeable on the realities of life here. Every non muslim i know, every, wants to exterminate you muslims like the cockroaches you are, like we have said before, more srebenicas

Thank you for the APOSTATE'S DAY. Now there is a day for us to celebrate.

Hi Ibn Rushd

Thanks for the feedback. I changed World Apostates Day to the 14th June for personal reasons. THAT IS THE LAST CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So you have time to celebrate it on the 14th June.

I'm so glad that I'm getting feedback at last.
I'm going to contact all humanitarian organizations. Amnesty International, etc to tell them about it.
Thanks so much Ibn

Muhammad and his contemporaries:

The bizman Muhammad said, "God
Must think it incredibly odd,
That the Christians and Jews
Greet my message with boos,
And the Qureysh wish me under the sod."

The SERBS- an example for all to follow.

the Serbs have done no wrong, all they did was defend their own land.
The Hindus/Sikh/Buddhists/Christian in Kashmir have done no wrong.
why is it that when moslems want to steal a nation from it's original inhabitants it is OK but when the original occupants defend it this is a crime ?
Yes let their be more srebrenica's.
In London,Luton, Bradford, Southern Sudan, kashmir, chechnya, the USA

*laughs* Sharon, are you being serious? Believe in my own goodness? If you're human at all, you must surely wrestle with all sorts of vile motives, from jealousy to murder to revenge to rage. Or are you the only one who never has those thoughts cross your mind? The existence of those thoughts means that you cannot be thoroughly good by yourself. You can keep thinking that you are and in so doing justify anything you want to do. There are many people who thought they were doing the best thing in the world by doing whatever they wished. But there's a deeper problem in all of this. How do you even define good? What is good for you may not be good for me. What if I desire polyogamy? That might not be good for you. Or what if I like peanuts, but you're allergic to them? I'm an apostate alright, but an apostate from thinking that I'm my own god. I know myself far too well to imagine that I'm perfectly good or that I can think myself into being that way. With positive thinking you can do anything, right Sharon? Maybe you should try brain surgery via positive thinking. *laughs*

Sharon: after reading you posts I conclude that you are a Humanist. Fealing no need of religion, believing that man is of good nature, that we ourselves individually are all we need.

Being a humanist is the liberal way the west is moving and Islam loves it. Because both are ruled by ones self, instead of the Creature.

A humanist is the biggest part of the Political Correctness movement out there, and you are in the mainstream.

you know the flaw to this belief that islam is the fastest growing religion
1.once u become one u stay one even if u convert back, so they count all people who leave islam is still being muslim, see indonesia
2. those in africa are converted by the sword, its forced conversion which doesnt last once the m,uslim rulers leave people revert back to what they trully believe in
3.muslims are know to inflate figures, see former yugo, and create false census by intimidation
4. also christianity is the fastest growing religion in china and tibet, thats alot of people, all former communist countries have the fastest growing christian religions, eg russia has outstripped its ability to supply churhces to its population as the baltic states , balkans and poland etc
5.once muslinms dominate they tend to erase by force centuries of christianity that stood there first eg kosovo church burning and africa

fha FFER sounds like another charity seeker, sit and read and act all holy while living on the dole lazy ass shit
typical muslim, not one muslim country is successful not one, even when two republics split the muslim one falls over into backwardness the christian one flourishes, see balkan states for recent evidence
and then out of sheer hyprocracy they all want to move and live in the christian one while all the time bragging about how good the islam is, twisted just twisted people i say
they are full of crap, i have first hand experience we laugh at them in my corner of the world, sheep herders

No more Jihad. We all have a shadow side, no-one is perfect. But we all have the possibility to be good and decent human beings as well. I don't believe I'm god. Believing in your own goodness does not turn you into god.
Look at babies: do they think that they are wicked or sinful? No, they enjoy being themselves and feel good about themselves. We seem to go backwards as we grown older.

Alaska
A humanist loves human beings. Is that wrong? Religions like Islam HATE human beings, otherwise they wouldn't terrorise them in the way that they do.
So how are they similar?
BTW, Peter Ustinov was a humanist.