Despite denials, apparently Al-Moqrin is still dead. From AP, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- An al-Qaida cell fulfilled its threat to kill an American hostage, beheading him and showing the grisly photos on the Internet. Saudi officials claimed they later gunned down four militants including the cell leader who allegedly masterminded Paul M. Johnson's kidnapping.State-run television showed pictures of the four slain militants' bodies Saturday. Among them was one it said was Abdulaziz al-Moqrin, the reputed leader of al-Qaida in Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabia's most-wanted terror suspect.
Hours earlier, a message on an Islamic militant Web site said the reports of al-Moqrin's saying were false. The message could not immediately be verified, but it appeared on a Web site that has had similar messages in the past.
A U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity Friday had confirmed al-Moqrin's killing, while a Saudi official had said forensic tests would confirm its identity.
Doesn't it strike you as suspicious that Saudi TV reports Abdulaziz al-Moqrin "dead", while al-Qaeda says he's alive? I mean there was the Saudi foreign affairs "snakehead" advisor al Jubeir yammereing away at a hastily arranged press conference at the Embassy in DC, late yesterday afternoon about a raid and firefight in Riyahd, when he just said that they had 15,000 national guards, special ops and heliborne law enforcement officials who "failed" in looking for the alleged "perp." Just like the aftermath of the slaughter of 22 foreigners in Khobar late last month. And how about another American, Ron Jacob killed on June 8th. What is that careworn expression " one hand doesn't [want to know] what the other is doing" in the land of Araby. No wonder MEMRI reports that Prince Abdullah thinks that Paul Johnson's murder in Royadh and the slaughter of foreigners in Khobar is a "Zionist" plot. Are we witnessing the fall of the house of Saud because of its "Faustian" bargain cut with teh Wahhabis?? Stay tuned to those Islamic web sites from Saudi al Qaeda cadres operated out of , where, London, according to terrorism "expert" Steven Emerson.
Maybe the best thing is for the Saudis to come under fire from their own 'creatures' they have spawned in the madrassas. THEY have the means and the familiarity to know where to find them and how to deal with them quickly and permanently.
An observation that everyone seems to be overlooking:
The "head" of the Saudi branch of al Qaeda apparently couldn't find enough henchmen that he trusted to dispose of Johnson's body.
jay
The Saudis have created a monster, and now it's going to eat them up. Best we can hope for is a slow process that shows the whole world the danger these people are and that the war on terror wasn't a pack of lies.
I'm not sure that I believe any of these reports. I sounds like the Saudis are attempting some quick damage control for not cracking down earlier on the al-Qaeda cells which are active in Saudi Arabia. Even if they have managed to kill Abdulaziz al-Murqrin, I can't see how it would make any US citizen working or living in Saudia Arabia feel any safer. Any Americans living in Saudia Arabia should take heed to the US State Departments warning and get out.
Anonymous:
Any Americans living in Saudia Arabia should take heed to the US State Departments warning and get out.
What needs to happen is for ALL 6 million foreign workers to leave Saudi Arabia.
I don't think most people realize just how dependent the Saudis are on foreign workers. They don't just provide technical advice to their oil industry and military. Foreigners are essentially the ONLY workers in the country!
If they all left, the Saudis wouldn't just be faced with the collapse of their economy. They would be faced with the collapse of their SOCIETY.
We all understand that Saudi Arabia is the fount of Wahabbism and that the attacks within the country are a struggle between factions of thar fundamentalist sect. The more conservative faction would like to create an Islamic theocracy, to seize the oil fields and the petrobillions for the service of jihad. Why should all of this money be used to maintain a royal family's life of luxury when the money could be, in their view, better spent in the service of Allah to rid the world of the vile, the infidels and agnostics, in short, all of us?
We will overcome the possible painful loss of Middle Eastern oil through improved technology and access to other sources. Nevertheless, nilhists should not be given the resources and the income to facilitate our destruction.
OOps. We all understand that Saudi Arabia is the fount of Wahabbism and that the attacks within the country are a struggle between factions of thar fundamentalist sect.
Sorry, make that … their/> fundamentalist sect.
I find it strange that some people here would find the claims of Al Qaeda about the death of Paul Johnson more credible then the claims of the Saudi government about the death of Al Moqrin, when both are showing pictures of the dead.It seems to me that it would be in the interest of Al Qaeda to lie about the very quick execution of its leader in Saudi Arabia as Al Moqrin death would represent a major setback for Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia.
Linda,
The answer is simple. Saudia Arabia has much more to lose. The last thing they want is for Americans in Saudia Arabia to leave their country. As lobo91 stated, "If they all left, the Saudis wouldn't just be faced with the collapse of their economy. They would be faced with the collapse of their SOCIETY."
We should leave anyway... let those suckers fend for themselves.
Anonymous,
When both are showing dead bodies it does not make sense that people would find Al Qaeda more credible. It also strikes me as odd that people would ignore Al Qaeda's clear incentive to lie.How would lying about Al Moqrin encourage Americans to stay in Saudi Arabia when the US government is calling for all Americans to leave
the Kingdom?
The war on terror is not a pack of lies.
The reasons spewed by Bush and his cohorts for going to war in Iraq was mostly, if not all, Lies.
It does strike me odd that the Saudi's managed to find the perps after the beheading.
Who's foolin' who?
Linda, to answer your question, "How would lying about Al Moqrin encourage Americans to stay in Saudi Arabia when the US government is calling for all Americans to leave the Kingdom?"
Because it might provide a false sense of security to those Americans who are still in Saudi Arabia. Most of whom are there for the increased salaries. Even though the State Department tells them to leave, when you can make up to 10 times what you make in the US, it is kind of hard to decide to leave. But now that the possibility of being kidnaped and murdered is a reality to any westerner living in Saudi Arabia, I would think that unless the Saudis claim they have killed Al-Moqrin, the mass exodus would soon begin.
Anonymous,
The Saudis are not just claiming they killed Al Moqrin they are showing Al Moqrin's dead body. Fox news just broadcast a picture of the recently deceased Al-Moqrin next to a photo of the same person. Looks like the same scumbag to me.
Foreigners make up 50% of the Saudi labour force. 80% of the physicians, nurses and upper level medical technicians are foreigners. An exodus of foreigners would certainly lead to the collapse of the Saudi health care system, especially when the next wave of hajjis bring their cholera, typhoid, encephalitis, etc. The airline would cease to function. The power generation, transmission and distribution systems will gradually brown out. The water production (desalination) would decline, concurrently with the increase of water bourne illnessess. Solid waste and sewage will inundate the urban areas. McDonald's and Pizza Hut will close. The port operations that the kingdom depends on to unload and distribute their food supply will falter. Safeway will close. All the frozen food in the kingdom will rot. The fleet of royal Gulfstreams are ready to depart for Geneva at the drop of a hat.
Here's a good primer: http://foi.missouri.edu/evolvingissues/fallhouseofsaud.html
Linda, I agree with you about him being a 'scumbag' and I would add the word coward to that description as well, but I am a skeptic. The US goverment has lied to us Americans many times, so why would I believe a foreign goverment wouldn't do the same when they stand to lose the backbone workforce of their economic stablity and advancement. I will add, if they did kill Al-Moqrin, I'm appreciative for the Saudi Security Force.
Here's the picture of the late Al Moqrin released by the Saudi government and shown on Fox news and other media outlets including AP.
Dead Al Qaeda Leader
AK47 WANTED I a'int leavin.
i'd give just about anything to see coalition forces playing soccer with a jihadists severed head. an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth..
DrMack-
Thanks for that link
http://foi.missouri.edu/evolvingissues/fallhouseofsaud.html
It really was informative and should be a primer read for all!
DrMack, that was an excellent link and totally true as well.
We don't know who to believe, especially when it comes to the country of Saudi Arabia. They have the terrorists there living plotting their next attacks on the US and god knows what else these people are planning. If this man is really dead then great, it's justice for Mr. Johnson and whoever else he is responsible for killing or having killed. We're not safe until all of them are dead and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Dr. Mack,
Jeddah is already drowning in its own sewage.
"The fleet of royal Gulfstreams are ready to depart for Geneva at the drop of a hat." Flown by foreign pilots.
Did anyone see the wanted pictures of Abdulaziz al-Muqrin the head of al-Qaida in Saudi Arabia? Looks like a considerable amount of inbreeding here. This is what happens when a cult says it is okay to f**k your cousins and sisters. I’m stealing this line from another poster, but I like it “NEANDERTHAL RE-EVOLVES”
Maybe the Saudi's knew where Johnson was the entire time, and waited until they had an opportune moment to kill all the self proclaimed Al-Qaeda leaders there. Well, not all.
FoxNews is now announcing that the body of Paul Johnson has YET TO BE RECOVERED!!! Rita Crosby is grilling snakehead alJuber about Saudi doublespeak and the Crown Prince's lies about this all being the work of "zionists".
It is high time for the US to call home EVERY American [for at least 2 weeks] and let the so-called house of Saud squirm in their own filth.
The hand of God has moved. Abdulaziz al-Muqrin and his followers are dead. If God had not willed it, then it would not be so. They have tasted of God's anger and will be forever punished.
Al-Qaeda will feel God's punishment too, because its followers do not follow His true teachings. They have been deceived.
I challenge all Muslims and all other believers to pray to the One True God that al-Qaeda's death may come soon, so that innocent lives may be spared.
[Hopefully] Here's the clickable link for The Fall of the House of Saud.
It will be risky to withdraw all US workers, but we really should tell thse snakeheads that either they reform immediately or we are outta there.
Auzerais, you are right on and to the point. We should have EVERY American leave Saudi Arabia immediatley! Why should we loan our American workers and teach our American technology to a nation that isn't even able to protect our contractors and their employees!
Again, anyone in Saudi Arabia who is reading this, heed the US State Department warning and leave.
I am hoping that all Americans leave Saudi Arabia and any other foreign country where they can be in grave danger. It's not safe for us overseas and although I feel that they need to act quickly and get out, I do not want anymore Americans killed in the name of Islam. I feel badly for Mr. Johnson and his family, he was working and living there for so many years and had friends in the community was even studying the Qu'ran. I understand what it means to support your family and be the only source of income for them but if you're not breathing anymore how can you support your family? It's not easy to pick up and leave your job and home but in this instance, you need to. Anonymous, I agree with you! I do hope if anyone is reading these, please, please, contact your family here in the US if you have any and make arrangements to come home.
Anonymous;
I wrote this reply to your post on the above thread, but as I came to send it Jihad watch pulled the 'comments plug' due (i think) to someone abusing the system.
My reply to your 'cease Christian activity in the Middle East' comments;
Anonymous;
I have about 1/2 a shelf worth of books about Islam, given to me by Muslims trying to convert me.
They are in my city centre with a 'Daw'ah' stall every Saturday attempting to convert passers-by.
I worked as a missionary in a third world country for a while, and take my word for it, if people don't want to listen they can and do walk away (without threat to their life)
Peace towards the west from Islam is not dependant on western missionaries ceasing their evangelistic efforts.
Violence and aggression towards the west was and is, dependant on the commands of Muhammad 1400 yrs ago;
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
"Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
You are mis-informed to think that Christian Missionary activity is restricted to westerners.
Whether we carry on our efforts or not, there are (just for an example) 100,000 Chinese taking up the baton.
Regards,
kc
Ot......................
On Fox News, its now being reported that our forces have done a targeted strike on a home in Fallujah and we MAY have gotten Musab-Al Zarqawi.
At least 15 were killed, the house was loaded with amo and rockets, blast continued for some time afterwards, and an Iraqi in the area turned them in.
Al Qaeda spokesman just confirmed and acknowledged the death of their boy. Al M.
Is there any way Americans could all leave their jobs in Saudi and give them to French and Germans?
John,
I don't know but I sure do wish they could!
Well I would like to say that all americans, spanish, european but philipinos, indios and pakistanies must be leave Saudi Arabia, this country isn´t secure, and has created a lot of problems in the world, I think that all americans work there wons a lot of money, but the life and the satisfation of not being the pet of his muslims terrorists is better, I think, Saudi Arabia don´t deserve our help.
I worry that they want our focus on hostages, so we don't keep our eyes open to potential danger here on U.S. territory.
How do you expect Americans to leave Saudi Arabia and come back to the US of A where there are no jobs? Bush outsourced all the jobs. We have a lot of jobless Americans in this country and Americans are migrating just to support their families back home.
I am Saud and in the name of Islam (for convenience) and with the help of my body evangelical Christian Bush will destroy all America middle class, any Saudi who is not real Saudi and the rest of the non Saudis.
I started the Wahabism crab to control the oil, Bush and company helped crafted the Koran by translating the Bible ( Bush English sucks) but it is ok for Moslem: it does not make a difference: they are brained washed and they recite the Koran without even questioning it, it works for me. I convinced every Moslem sucker to visit Mecca every year … I make a lot of money doing that and more will come every year.
For know I am convincing Bush to include Saudi Arabia as a US state, I can get free protection, US has more oil now than Saudi Arabia and of course I can keep my title as the king. I am Saud and I will do nothing to stay in power and Bush is backing me 100%.
The only way they will convince me that they actually killed those al-Qaida guys responsible for slaughtering Johnson, is when I see photos of their bodies with decapitated heads on "their" backs. How do we knows those photos weren't staged.
An observation that everyone seems to be overlooking:
The "head" of the Saudi branch of al Qaeda apparently couldn't find enough henchmen that he trusted to dispose of Johnson's body.
jay
Posted by: Jay Stevens at June 19, 2004 10:22 AM
It is quite possible that he didn’t have anyone else to do it. al Qaeda follows the “cell system” or what we in North America call “Leaderless Resistance”. It is a very effective system where each cell operates independently and only one person in the cell knows anyone outside the cell, usually a member of a geographically near by cell or some one of a higher rank. With the Internet now widely available, they are able to communicate much easier, which makes counter resistance that much tougher. This system was formalized by an American ex-military officer (his name escapes me) to be used in the event of a communist takeover of the States. The IRA switched over to this system in about 1980 (I could be wrong on the date) because their ranks had been thoroughly infiltrated by British intelligence. They were able to use it quite effectively. But to get back to the original topic, the al Qaeda cell operating there is probably small with few members. I would be surprised if they had more than ten active members. For big operations they would contact and cooperate with nearby cells. Anyway… that’s my humble opinion.
“Your grandchildren will be resistance fighters against islam.”
http://a4a.mahost.org/resist.html
To mj, from the comment column no longer accessible.
Sorry mj, you are wrong.
Mohommed insisted the world was flat, not round.
Most other scientific gains ascribed to the muslim arab 'civilization' are also not true.
Certainly the medical ones are mostly bs.,though some worthwhile stuff acquired from the ?? ( a Christian group centered in Iraq ), the arab moslems now claim as their own, as they now claim they discovered N.America etc etc.
The only good thing they did do was to provide a safe haven for knowledge developed by non- muslims and non-arabs during a nasty period in european history.
Canuck:
al Qaeda follows the “cell system” or what we in North America call “Leaderless Resistance”.
To a large extent, al Qaeda is a "virtual" organization, much like the "Earth Liberation Front" enviro-wacko group.
If you want to create an al Qaeda cell, all you have to do is go blow something up or murder some infidels, and issue a statement saying that you did it in the name of al Qaeda.
Fox news report Risain found in face cream ?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory [Freedom] Amen
Rise up grab your guns lets make Al Qaeda, Al dente
Foxnews
If Sec'y Powell doesn't want Americans to leave the kingdom, who authorized the warden message that urges Americans to leave? So is dhimmi Powell now suggesting to the 35,000 Americans and their families in Saudi Arabia to, "Stay quiet and you'll be OK"?
I think Sec Powell is being a politician and diplomat.The state dept has advised all Americans to leave SA. President Bush has said that we cannot be concerned about the Saudi economy and that all Americans should leave the country. However, in his news conference yesterday
the Saudi ambassador suggested that if people leave they are handing a victory to the terrorists.Also a mass exodus of westerners would almost certainly hurt the Saudi economy. This is probably why the Saudi's are moving quickly to kill and capture terrorists.I also want to add that I am very happy to hear about the death of Abdulaziz al-Muqrin.
Remember they Cut the throts of 22 Christians and the Saudis had the the killers behind a wall and let them go before they took this man Johnson? Where were they with their tears? today is different because they said do not kill him and they did anyway? the saudis are worried about their own necks today they were blaming the neo consertives? In case you do not know this is the new dirty word for JEW? Proof is just pay attion when they name the neo consertivets.
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory [Freedom] Amen
God Bless the country who has Heros and Pitty the country who needs them Amen
We're probably turning the corner; the enemy is losing some marque players that took years to develop....
They are not that easily replaced. And its hard to rebuild a Terror Inc with the US jumping all overyou.
Like the U-boat war, each specific victory occurs retail, pure attrition. Al Qaeda is no longer using wolf pack tactics. ( i.e. 9/11 )
Now, on to Iran before detonation....
This cross eyed inbred terrorist was running around Saudi Arabia for years, then all of a sudden, the Saudis find him, and kill him? Sorry, but I know that at least in the Cosa Nostra this happens when they want someone silenced. Just one person's opinion here, but I think that the Saudi family knew the killing of Paul Johnson would be invetigated by us.
The FBI is already over there. I think there's a good chance that the Saudis whacked this jerk so he wouldn't sing.....
The Saudi's must pay for their sins....We need to punish these scum! Fu-k their oil! We need to go into a full war footing and let the chips fall where they may! If oil price rise, we will survive and adapt.
blert said, “We're probably turning the corner; the enemy is losing some marque players that took years to develop....”
I would agree with that statement. Many of their best leaders were developed during the Russian-Afghan war. It can take years of good experience to create a good military leader, however they do have other areas of conflict going on where they can train future fighters. A sad career choice.
“Your grandchildren will be peaceful ex-muslims.”