Sentences handed down in 'Virginia jihad' case

It's a start...

yeah but those sentences are a little harsh even the judge agreed with that.

i think they are a 10-15 year max offense.

What kind of punishment is sending a Muslim to prison? They'll be treated like prophets in prison. The only thing that could make it better for them is if they were gay, which they probably will be soon enough. Bah.

LAPORTE, Ind. -- A 78-year-old woman tired of squirrels raiding her bird feeder got out her shotgun to kill the critter, but instead accidentally shot and injured herself.
Alberta Jones loaded her 16-gauge shotgun Sunday and carried it with the barrel pointed down to the back door to take aim, police said. The gun accidentally discharged, police said, and shotgun pellets ricocheted off the floor.
Both of her legs were struck by the pellets, and one in her knee required surgery Tuesday to remove. Her hospital condition was not available Tuesday evening.
"I've tried everything to shag them away, and they keep coming back," Jones said of the squirrels after the incident.
Conservation officer Jerry Shepherd with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources said it is not squirrel season, and that hunting game out of season is a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum 60 days in jail and up to a $500 fine. Authorities are not pressing charges.
Jones vowed to keep shooting at squirrels and using firecrackers -- as she has done several times before -- to discourage them from getting into her bird feeder. She also shoots groundhogs and other animals she considers a nuisance.
"My neighbors call me Annie Oakley," she said.
Associated Press
June 16, 2004

Now this is Why the Terrorist will not win!!

said it is not squirrel season, LOL

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

PS YES even 78yr old women have guns!!

harsh?? oh yes lets let them out in just a few years...perhaps there will still be time for them to join back up with their little terror cell and plan a new attack on US citizens...citizens who by the way will be paying to feed and clothe these vermin. Life was too kind for them, would the bleeding hearts feel differently if they had not been caught and been able to go through with a terror plan...harsh...well joseph perhaps they would have blown up the elementary school where your children attend, or the building where your wife works, or the plane you were riding on...maybe you would feel differently about how "harsh" the sentence was. Do you really believe that they will be "reformed" into human beings in prison, can they be let out into society...no I dont think so, let the inmates deal with them.

i think they are a 10-15 year max offense.

Posted by joseph at June 16, 2004 09:21 AM

A rope and a beam would've been more economical. Now we have to pay to feed, clothe, and house these hogs until the glorious day of their departure from Earth.

hmmm what a strange society we live in we give republican bill janklow habitual speeder and bad driver 100days in prison for vehicular homicide for killing a motorcyclist....

but we give others life prison sentences

I will be proven right though i bet none of those virgina jihadi's will be in jail 10-15 years from now.

Why not pack muslims in 20 foot containers, take them to the middle of the ocean and then drop them into the deepest point. May be rinse them off first so as not to pollute the ocean.

In europe 88% of prisoners are muslims, my tax money pays to feed these pigs. 90% of all rapes in europe are instigated by muslims. I can continue.....

I have to agree. I'm for the .50cent cure myself.

Joseph:

I will be proven right though i bet none of those virgina jihadi's will be in jail 10-15 years from now.

If they're put into the general prison population, you're probably right. Hopefully, one of their fellow inmates will take care of them for us.

LOL Oik..how many muslims can we pack into a 20 foot container...maybe we could get into the guiness book!

Joeseph...you are right, none of that muslim scum will be in prison in 10-15 years....they will meet the same fate as Jeffrey Dahmer...as an added plus they wont be like a virgin on prom night when they meet their "servant" boys in their little x-rated paradise...they will be well versed in what to do....I vote we put Lynndie in charge of these guys.

Joseph,
Why do you love these monsters so much, think about your family and friends all the people you know and love, then try to realise that radical muslims want us all either dead or converted. I don't know how many times you will have to be told this for it to sink in but we are not making it up .People like you will only realize when it's to late for all of us, so in a way you are just as much a threat to my life as any terrorist, you are the kind of guy that has created this tolerant/pushover society that we live in. My grandparents must be turning in their graves.

I don't think these sentences are harsh at all, these are people who had planned to wage war against the United States. They were training to kill and maim Americans, these animals should have received death.The Bush administration said a long time ago that they wanted maximum sentences for American collaborators with terrorist in order to discourage this type of traiterous activity.

"What Mr. Chapman has been found guilty of is a serious crime, but there are murderers who have served far less time," the judge told an Alexandria courtroom packed with supporters of the three men. "I have sentenced al Qaeda members who were planning attacks on these shores to far less time.''

thats what the judge that sentenced them said today

Im really shocked that people who post here are so against the public executions that happen under islamic fundie states. because i suspect most here are die hard supporters of the death penalty and would have no problem if after found guilty in a short trial the person was taken outside the courthouse and someone put a bullet in there heard or hanged them on the spot for the public to see.

joseph,
i am against executions, but i am for the mass eradication of muslims.

So sit in your living room and judge me, i have lived and seen the realities, and noble romantic ideals like yours have no place in the real world. Sad but true. wake up and see what goes on outside barbieland.

The problem is not with the public execution in the ME, its the fact that they are executing a woman because her husband SAYS she was unfaithful, or showed he wrist, or dared to lift her eyes and look someone in the face...thats the problem. I have no problem with MURDERERS being executed, sure why not in public, might deter a few. Yep I support the death penalty...if you take someone elses life, then your right to live ceases...simple. This trash WOULD have murdered as many Americans as possible all the while praising their black rock...I for one would be happy to see them meet their maker in hell...I am an infidel...my life means nothing to them, why should theirs mean anything to me.

Joseph,

If it makes you feel any better the sentences are a lot less harsh then the death sentences in Saudia Arabia for converting a Muslim to Christianity or the death sentence Nick Berg received for being an American Jew.The idea of these types of sentences is to discourage collaboration and remove terrorist sympathizers, the types who blow up shopping malls and public school from the community for as long as possible.Of course if there was a way these animals could be placed in communities where only you or people who think like you would be harmed that might be a good way to teach you a lesson about the realities of war.These are animals who have no respect for human life and deserve no sympathy.

Joseph:

"What Mr. Chapman has been found guilty of is a serious crime, but there are murderers who have served far less time," the judge told an Alexandria courtroom packed with supporters of the three men.

All that tells me is that we need to make sure murderers do more time. It doesn't mean these scumbags should do LESS time.

By the way: If they had a "courtroom packed with supporters of the three men" and let them walk away, it seems to me that someone missed an excellent opportunity to remove a large number of parasites from our society.

I'm all for public execution. Make it a Pay Per View event with all the proceeds going to fund additional investigations of the rest of these terrorist vermin.

Round and round until we run out of 'em.

Just for fun, we could have a top-notch medical staff on hand to revive them over and over so we could have re-runs during the week.

I'd pay to watch that!!!

I'd go with the board and rope solution myself. It costs too much to keep these people pampered in prison.

Joey
could it be he wants to go shopping without worry-ing about a bomb in his mall???

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS Rumsfeld is a genius!!! I see and Thank You!

PSS Fire up the eng.s Guys!!

Serves them right. This is war!

http://veraciraptor.blogspot.com

Have any of you taken the time to read what Robert Spencer has said about Islam and why he created this web site?

Philip,

Yes, Why?

Joseph= Love thy neighbor while he kills you.

The 60's are over, babe. Peace, Love, Dove doesn't work anymore.

Joeseph, nothing personal, but have you not been reading the posts of Reza, Mahmoud, Salami?

Sure, their flamers, but the thing to remember is, in order for them to post what they do, there is a foundation of hate that is soooo blinding to them, they can't even concieve of any other way to live. Now times that by millions.

Now, look at people from our own society that have willingly participated in the planning to kill our own.

They grew up with better ideology, the same as yours and rejected it. They would have no pity on you and yours. Not one ounce.

The Dove is dead, time to be a Hawk.

Joseph, your powers of selective perception amaze me. Most people (not all) here favor the death penalty. That doesn't mean that we favor vigilantism. The death penalty has been part of law for a long, long time without vigilante justice being the norm. How can you have missed that when studying history? Surely you're not trying to lamely troll us!

If I had to bet Joseph is a leftist that understands so much jihahdists that eventually becomes their friend. It is amazing the way the left in Europe and USA supports islamofascists. Obviously they will deny it but their facts betray their words.

For me is a waste to send those pigs to prison it should be better to kill them all. After all they believe that they will have eternal sex in paradise even with babies!

I agree with the poster up above that if Joseph think that waging war against the U.S is a 10-15 year offense, he should go find a community with people who think likewise and host these terrorists when (if ever) they are released. That way they can blow up your malls, murder your kids, and so forth. And since you have such a low esteem for your own country, Joseph, you need to find one that suits your liking. Please don't continue to live here if it obviously pains you so.

You know, what would otherwise be a really useful site is really starting to fester in all these blatantly racist comments. I know there's a clear disclaimer that the comments of site visitors shouldn't be associated with the site, but that's a naive and unrealistic assertion.

Robert, I strongly suggest you start intervening (with as light a touch as possible) to pull down some of these damaging remarks. I know it's odd, but there's few greater allies to violent extremist muslim groups than the equally sweeping and vile blanket anti-Muslim racists whose hate and bile they get to hide behind and finger point to as what "they're facing."

FYI - Islam is a fascist ideology not a race.

I also think death would have been the appropriate sentence for the filth that conspired to kill Americans.

I don't think Robert needs to be involved, but John brings up a valid point.

Folks, lets try to keep race out of this.

Islam is no more a race than is Christianity. Lets try to self-police ourselves a bit better okay?

This is ahate site and should be banned. You all realize that don't you?

*a hate

Pete~ is it?

Well... I suppose we all Hate dying at the hands of terrorists.

I suppose we all Hate the kind of Nazi scum these types associated with, who would have wiped out you or I without a second thought.

I suppose we all Hate the idea of this cancer called islam trying to impose itself on the entire world....

Care to prove us wrong? These people have been discussing what they intend for the Entire World for over 200 years, and have a 1400 year history of it to back them up. So Yeah, I suppose I hate the idea of being forced to bow down to a rock.

Pete, have you even Bothered to read what this site is about? People who want to murder YOU, and anyone who is NOT a muslim. Try reading here for a couple of days and see if you figure it out. Or have you already run away?

People all over the world want to kill us. Why are muslims more imminently dangerous? It seems to me that you people are deathly afraid of them, much like the KKK was deathly afraid of blacks and jews. I repeat, hate site. I'm not going to come back to this site again, and I can't help but wonder if our laws allow any site to be banned, after what I've seen on the internet in some places.

Have a nice life, Pete. I hope the part of the world you live in is Safe. How long that lasts, will be determined not by you, because you won't pay attention until it is too late.

*points to Pete* this is why I will Always advocate reading as much history as possible. This guy probably would have been saying 'What's so bad about the Nazis' in 1935.

Pete,

If you want to see sites that promote hate I suggest visting any site run by the Palestinian Authority or radical any Islamists.These sites as well as other sites in the Arab and Muslim world blame all the worlds problems on Jews and/or Zionists.Palestinians for example openly advocate genocide along with referring to Jews as monkeys and pigs.BTW - If you have to ask why Muslims are a threat to the US I can only conclude that you've been asleep since Sept 11, 2001.

This comment is directed at Opviews, NAIL ON THE HEAD. You have made the clearest and most level headed arguement I have read to date. Thanks. With clear commentary and facts you have let me know that we will not stoop the level of inhumanity that our assailants have and do on a daily basis. Hope to read more from you.
Sharkey

I'm only "not particularly hateful?"

Talk about damning by faint praise...

Well, John, fancy running into you again...you know, I was thinking, while reading your latest condescension, how I like the content of most of these threads very little and agree with them even less! However, as a lifelong anti-fascist,I have to admit that even the most vitriolic posts fail to stir me to response as yours do.
"I know there's a clear disclaimer that the comments of site visitors shouldn't be associated with the site, but that's a naive and unrealistic assertion." Really? Let's type this one into the online translation engine and right-click the "Fascistspeak" icon:
"I know you think your inadequate disclaimer serves to justify that old cultural Dinosaur, Freedom of Speech,(which as we all know, was a fair idea in its day)but I'm serving you notice that I know better than that."
Let's try another one:
"Robert, I strongly suggest you start intervening (with as light a touch as possible) to pull down some of these damaging remarks."
A click, a "whhhirrrr" an it becomes:
"Robert, by virtue of my pathological narcissism and religiousity, which I have displayed elsewhere on these pages,I'm condescending to give you the benefit of spiritual wisdom and authority with which only true faith can bestow,and trying to begin what will be, if initially successful, a series of posts to gain control of your behavior and the flow of your website...why? Because it gratifies me.God gave me this life,after all, and you and the others are just in it! What possible use do I have for open discussion? Especially when it makes me uncomfortable? Not sure how to begin?Just remove posts and posters until I thread you to stop.
Robert Spencer has proven himself to be a far wiser and stronger man than you or I may ever be, and for you to even imagine addressing him like you have and not expect me or someone like me to call you on it...
John,I "strongly suggest(with as light touch as possible)you start" examining your own rhetoric and motivations and know that the day you and your similarly narcissistic islamic counterparts on the other side of the world suppress or manipulate this last desert oasis of free exchange of ideas, (regardless of their content)known as the internet, it will be over my (and I am sure some others on these pages)dead body! You have already broken our eggs to make your omeletes, politically speaking,and you must content yourselfs with that. You cannot have our children's as well...

These guys intended to kill American soldiers. In other words, they intended to denude the U.S. of the first line of defense against Islamic aggression. If our military is destroyed, we're on the front line. Thus, their intent was genocidal. Therefore, these men deserve a strong rope on a high sturdy branch.

Never forget, the charge is essentially one revolving around INTENT. These Islamic nuts planned to murder many Americans. Janklow was a fool for speeding and killing that poor cyclist; however, Janklow's intent was not murder of any American.

John,
as far as I know this is not an islamic site, but a democratic one. The majority of opinions suggest an ever increasing hate of islam and the vile, disgusting ideals that it stands for. Please inform me for I am ignorant, WHO THE FUCK ELECTED YOU MONITOR OF THIS OR ANY OTHER SITE. Majority rules, this, my ignorant romantic is NOT AN ISLAMIC SITE.

PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO RE-INSERT HEAD UP YOUR EDIFICE. THANK YOU

This is ahate site and should be banned. You all realize that don't you?

Posted by Pete at June 16, 2004 03:25 PM

A hate site? Why Peter, whatever do you mean?

If you have a TV, turn it on. Are we supposed to love these Cave Rats that want is wearing diapers on our heads, while we beat our wifes and rape our female cousins. Should we adore the fact that these pukes want our heads and our bodies in two different towns?

Open your eyes, clown.

Elementary my dear D.C. Watson.
You claim this is not a hate site, or at least it attracts hate filled people, while you call muslims Cave Rats and call their head-wear daipers? And, to be fair, muslim men do not beat up their wives any more often than American men. You are a bigot, just like far too many people on this site.
I will admit that there is a threat from muslim extremists, but not from Islam and most of its followers.

Pete,

It is quite obvious you’ve appeared without the capability or inclination to add to thoughtful discourse on the topics discussed on this site.

As this fact is self-evident, keep your word, as you promised above not to trouble the good people of this site again.

The dissection you save may be your own.

Bobby boy

I came back to see what you hate-mongers said about my posts, but now that I see you have no reasonable arguments to refute my accusation, and in fact prove that it was accurate WHILE YOU DENY IT, I believe I might say a few words more. In other words, f_ck yourself, I'll come back if I want to.
And was that "dissection" bit a threat?

It is quite obvious you’ve appeared without the capability or inclination to add to thoughtful discourse on the topics discussed on this site.

Posted by Bob Owens at June 16, 2004 07:45 PM

Just because I disagree with the majority of the people on this site, and that is to say that I do not believe that all Muslims are evil, does not mean I cannot contribute. Hell, mabye I can even sway a few of you crackers away from fertilizer bombing a mosque or something.

Ahhh but can you sway the imam at the mosque not to preach hate against non muslims...can you sway the imam not to encourage jihad against non muslims...I would guess not.

I have seen not one shred of evidence that there are moderate muslims, and if there are they are far too afraid of being killed by their brothers in the "religion of peace" to come forward....sorry no sale here.

PS...you do not have to hate someone to be wary and suspicious of them...is it really that much of a surprise that muslims are looked at with suspicion..I can walk into any place of worship, any religion, EXCEPT islam, and I would be welcomed, I can enter through their front door and listen to what they have to say whether I agree or not, they wouldnt hide any part of their service from me...would I, an infidel be welcomed to walk through the front door of a mosque and just listen...NO, and we know this for a fact because our local mosque is closed to anyone NOT muslim, what are they hiding, why the secrecy?...when the mosque was firebombed on sep 11 and muslims were threatened and beaten all of a sudden they wanted to welcome infidels into their "holy" mosque...but not to listen to prayer, no, it was to tell us infidels that islam is the "religion of peace" and that in not so many words we asked for it...yea they made alot of friends that day..not!...I am hardpressed to name a handful of major conflicts in the world that do not involve or were not started by muslims.

pete said,” People all over the world want to kill us. Why are muslims more imminently dangerous?”

Where the heck were you on September 11th, 2001???? Those weren’t Disney characters flying those planes!

“Your grandchildren will be extras in Disney movies.”

Bob Owens (and certain others):

The phrase "not particularly hateful" was, unfortunately, a little too much shorthand for what I meant. At times, even the scions of reason on this site may get a little testy and ascerbic in response to some of the frustratingly ignorant or willfully obuse commentary by certain other posters to this site. These reactions are not "hateful," or "bigotted," per se, but rather, at times, reflect a certain impatience and frustration by people, who reasonably, find it difficult to suffer fools gladly.

No offense intended.

Pete:

Do you visit the islamic and jihad sites and tell them that they should be banned because they are "racist" against Christians...if so I would be curious as to their response...and please dont tell me that they do not make "death to americans and jews" comments...I have visited a few and what they say is FAR worse than anything I have read here.

Subject: WWW III - While we snooze

: WW III

You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece.

Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, re-set the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again.

In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that alarm has been ringing for years.

U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert.

The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder. The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war?

The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are.

America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.

America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "...it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage, political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't have the backbone to do both Democrat and Republican. This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

Please forward this to as many people as you can especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action.

USAgirl

I doubt that many imams IN America would preach the old "death to the infidels" bit to their followers, even before sept.11/01. Granted, many mosques in the Middle East preach this rhetoric, but seeing as they are under pressure from foreigners to become democratic and accept Israel's right to exist, their desire to kill foreigners is understandable, if unfortunate.

There are in fact moderate muslims, I know several personally, and some of them even admit that organizations like al-queda and hamas shame their religion. Trust me muslims are not evil incarnate, and they actually worship the same God as us.

You want conflicts that don't involve muslims? The war in Zaire, violent political unrest in Zimbabwe, the continuing civil war in Colombia, the overthrowing of the president of Haiti, the longrunning standoff in Korea, Northern f_ckin Ireland, to name a few.

Also, I never said anyone was "racist", but we need not HATE muslims because they hate us, although I can understand caution towards them and measures to make sure that al-queda's next attack fails. You have to admit that most of the posters on this site have a passionate and narrow-minded hatred of all muslims.

Pete...I think you are confused.

"I doubt that many imams IN America would preach the old "death to the infidels" bit to their followers, even before sept.11/01. Granted, many mosques in the Middle East preach this rhetoric, but seeing as they are under pressure from foreigners to become democratic and accept Israel's right to exist, their desire to kill foreigners is understandable, if unfortunate."

Uhhh...where have you been? You know...the name escapes me, but wasn't there some Shaiyk up in NJ that was arrested and prosecuted for his part in the 93 bombing of WTC? How about Jose Padilla? You think he just decided to convert to Islam and then try to get materials for a dirty bomb all on his own?

You might be a member of CAIR, but that doesn't mean that all the nice muslims who come to this country are necessarily here for the apple pie and fourth of July parades.

And let's get it straight from the Jihadis...there are no such things as "moderate" muslims. "Moderate" muslims are really apostates or Kafir (non believers) and are bound to die with us (they wish). So, I have no problem separating the the Islamists from their defectors.

Splitting hairs over "good" muslims and "bad" muslims is moot. They are either Kafir or Islamists. Not my words. Words of jihadi.

Therefore, I find no ambiguity nor bigotry in determining the "Islamists" or any country that has shari'ah law as it's basis for government to be rightly in the cross hairs of those on this commentary.

Governments found in Saudi or other, who shake our hand with their right hand and give money (our money) to the "Islamists" organizations in their countries with the left hand, are a threat, pure and simple, and should be called out as an enemy instead of using ambiguous terms like "terrorist" or trying to sort out the "good" from the "bad".

You are obviously one of the crowd who wants to know "why they hate us". Stop guessing and realize that we could be long gone from the ME, stop supporting Isreal, and never buy their oil and they would still hate us. We aren't them. We are THE world power. They must depose us in order re-instate the Ottoman Empire. The oil revenues from SA and other nearby countries would be a good start.

For me..hate is to simplified a word for my own feelings. I recognize the danger. Insist on knowing where it comes from and who it comes from. It is with cold calculation that I insist on calling them the enemy. What do you call them?

You are simply an apologist:

"but seeing as they are under pressure from foreigners to become democratic and accept Israel's right to exist, their desire to kill foreigners is understandable, if unfortunate."

Well...I guess on your word we should just bend over and take it like a man (or woman in this case)? It's all our fault. Evil imperialists that we are. Why can't we just leave them alone to torture and kill their own kind? If it spills over on us, we should try to understand that they don't hate us, it's just that we are in their way.

I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy already.

Kat-Missouri/USA

You go girl!!!

Excellent Kat from Mizzou - we need more patriots like you!

Elementary my dear D.C. Watson.
You claim this is not a hate site, or at least it attracts hate filled people, while you call muslims Cave Rats and call their head-wear daipers? And, to be fair, muslim men do not beat up their wives any more often than American men. You are a bigot, just like far too many people on this site.
I will admit that there is a threat from muslim extremists, but not from Islam and most of its followers.

Posted by Pete at June 16, 2004 07:19 PM

Sorry for the late response to the above written crap. Look Scooter, you may want to get your facts straight before you type your trash. The Qur'an promotes wife beating (verse 4:34). I tried to be accomodating, and even welcomed you to this site.

Diaperhead, Caverats, are terminology used for terrorists. However, Islam has fallen into cult status, and is in need of reform. Whether Muslims or Muslim lovers wish to admit that or not is irrelevant.

Facts are facts, and for you to do the slightest comparison between American men and the pigs that beat their wives, rape their family members in the name of family honor, and kill in the name of a moon rock, demonstrates your lack of intellect with regard to this matter.

Therefore, Peter, Pedro, Pierre, if you can't handle the opinions of the people on this site, you have two choices. The true bigots are the radical Muslims that want global conversion to Islam. There are Arab Muslims killing African Muslims in the Sudan because they're not Arab.

Finally, I implore you to pull your head out of the sand, and wake up.

Folks, Pete is just another Jen. Let him revel in his self-made ignorance, and let him be.

oh....alright....

blanket anti-Muslim racists whose hate and bile they get to hide behind and finger point to as what "they're facing."

Posted by john at June 16, 2004 02:07 PM

An John what would that be??? Who Facing??

Are you a muslum come to offer us peace in what way like your book says!

Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, ‘By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.’ The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away.”
Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight

Is this the Peace you offer while our backs think there is peace you kill while sleep-ing from lies and dec. well we have awaken before you could kill us all. We will not convert so what are we to do ??

By book says kill or be killed and the American people and others choose KILL!

Yes we want to live in peace but we see what is all over the world and the mulisms are killing the week well the USA is not week and they picked a fight ? Can't just call it off the rounds have started and we will not go back to sleep we are awake there is no snooze on this clock!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS even Bob O

onesandzeros,

"Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage, political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't have the backbone to do both Democrat and Republican. This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN thing."

The above is precisely why believe Bush should have summoned just a little more courage and not run for re-election. His country needed him to prosecute the war full time, and to keep it from being a "political thing". He's young yet,so he could've easily laid the groundwork for a hero's comeback in 2008 and easily kept the White House Republican for another four years.

Keeping a united front against an enemy envolves more than just silencing critics. Everyone must ask themselves, "What am I willing to give up to make this work?".

Besides, do the Republicans really believe that Dubya is the only man they have who can beat Kerry? If so, then they, and by extension, we, are lost.

Phil, quit spamming the board with this crap, will you?

Bob Owens,

onesandzeroes said:

"Please forward this to as many people as you can especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action."

Most of my posts are replies,if onesandzeroes is allowed to spam the threads,I and you and everybody else may reserve the right to pursue him across the threads and reply in kind.

Isn't that, after all, precisely the course of action most of you are advocating in your rants?

You're too intelligent and literate to be a reactionary! They're a dime a dozen!Trade in your obsession for intellectual focus,use that broad historical sense you have to get a handle on Civilization's ebb and flow, and join the rest of us genuine conservatives.
And for God sake, quit trying to solve the wrong problem.

Phil