Shmuel Bar of the Institute for Policy and Strategy at the Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya in Israel has a fascinating, detailed piece in Policy Review (thanks to Ali Dashti) about what I have been insisting upon all along, in three books, seven monographs, and who knows how many articles: that Islamic terror is not simply an impulse to mayhem or a political response to Western power couched in religious terms. It is a fundamentally religious movement springing from a deeply held and amply attested understanding of Islamic religious principles.
All of Bar's piece is worth reading; here are some provocative points from his conclusion:
Taking into account the above, is it possible — within the bounds of Western democratic values — to implement a comprehensive strategy to combat Islamic terrorism at its ideological roots? First, such a strategy must be based on an acceptance of the fact that for the first time since the Crusades, Western civilization finds itself involved in a religious war; the conflict has been defined by the attacking side as such with the eschatological goal of the destruction of Western civilization. The goal of the West cannot be defense alone or military offense or democratization of the Middle East as a panacea. It must include a religious-ideological dimension: active pressure for religious reform in the Muslim world and pressure on the orthodox Islamic establishment in the West and the Middle East not only to disengage itself clearly from any justification of violence, but also to pit itself against the radical camp in a clear demarcation of boundaries.Such disengagement cannot be accomplished by Western-style declarations of condemnation. It must include clear and binding legal rulings by religious authorities which contradict the axioms of the radical worldview and virtually “excommunicate” the radicals. In essence, the radical narrative, which promises paradise to those who perpetrate acts of terrorism, must be met by an equally legitimate religious force which guarantees hellfire for the same acts. Some elements of such rulings should be, inter alia:
• A call for renewal of ijtihad as the basis to reform Islamic dogmas and to relegate old dogmas to historic contexts.
• That there exists no state of jihad between Islam and the rest of the world (hence, jihad is not a personal duty).
• That the violation of the physical safety of a non-Muslim in a Muslim country is prohibited (haram).
• That suicide bombings are clear acts of suicide, and therefore, their perpetrators are condemned to eternal hellfire.
• That moral or financial support of acts of terrorism is also haram.
• That a legal ruling claiming jihad is a duty derived from the roots of Islam is a falsification of the roots of Islam, and therefore, those who make such statements have performed acts of heresy.
It is unlikely that the Muslim world will take these steps. This is not only because (as Bar points out) of the imperative of Islamic solidarity (cf. Sura 4:93 of the Qur'an) overrides other considerations, but also because the distinction he makes in this article between "radical" and "orthodox" Islam is problematic. While there are obviously millions of Muslims who are not and will never be radicals, the radicals energetically and persistently claim the mantle of orthodoxy, and by and large they are getting away with it. This is what must change, but the strong roots of the Islamic dogmas that Bar points out must be reformed will make that reform all the more difficult to accomplish.
I don’t see anybody pointing towards right direction. We must see the reason for what is going on in the world today, when it started and how it started. If one goes back in history and sees the creation of Jewish state (I always call it Palestine) it all started with its creation and off course it will finish with the end of it. What so ever US does it is not going to stop violence because of these Jew evils. The peace loving people has to wait until this evil is removed from the world.
Read the paper how Jew terrorists are killing innocent Palestinians. I think the US should join with Muslims to get rid of this evil if we want peace for our coming generations.
Innocent and weapon less Palestinians are putting up a brave fight that world has never seen and believe me it is not far that world will be thankful to Muslims for getting rid of Jews. These guys don’t believe in peace where ever they have gone they were kicked out from there, I appreciate that because they don’t deserve life, if you ask me nuke them Pakistan has sufficient nuke missiles that will burn their assess.
I don’t use such language normally but I had to here.
"The imperative if Muslim solidarity overrides other considerations" Some of these rights are: the rights and safety of non-Muslims and those that don't have "the right theology," the right of physical safety, the right of freedom of thought and action.
The freedom from physical enslavement as well as emotional, mental, and spiritual slavery are not afforded under Islam.
Muslim solidarity is on the inexorable march toward the ressurection of the Caliphate, Muslim imperiaism which threatens to engulf the entire world. Even though the majority of Muslims are not "radical at this time," the possiblity of becoming radicals is only one fatwa away as the f the more radical and the more orthodox are putting pressure on these groups to conform or face the same fate as non-Muslims: destruction.
peacehater (jewhater),
Repeating the same thing over and over is a sign of a deranged mind. You have spent too much time memorizing the koran. I know you are afraid of women, free thought, and jews, but you should try to get out more. Leave your explosive belt behind, they would spot you before you get on the Israeli bus anyway.
cheers........
I forgot to mention that I found this news item through http://internet-haganah.co.il/haganah/
"Peacelover"
German? French? Or just a good religious Muslim? What lovely classic antisemitism.
My nausea is overwhelming, to think on the 60th Anniversary of D Day that you have the freedom to express such vile and evil thoughts, paid for with the lives of brave Allied soldiers.
No matter what the rest of the world thinks or does, America will NEVER EVER come to that vile disgusting point of view. Never.
For the anti-semite: it's always convenient to scapegoat. Intelligent people in the West know very well that militant Islam is motivated to wipe out not just Jews but everyone who opposes them. Jews are always just the beginning, whether for Nazism or Islamofacism. The hors d'oeuvres, so to speak.
But am I the only one who believes that secular humanism will not be enough to defeat radical Islam: only a return to a full-throated culture of life in the West will do. If the God of Jews and Christians is real, then to fight this enemy we will need, in addition to intelligence & military might, repentance and conversion. Secular humanists are too politically correct to fight anything except the truth.
Peacemaker:
I would always warn anyone that in today's world, anti-Semitism is synonymous with anti-West and anti-Americanism: there is no excuse for not defending the few million Jews in Israel that have shown time and time again tremendous courage and honor under the worst of circumstances for decade upon decade, and this all coming in the aftermath of the worst case of genocidal attacks in human history, the Holocaust.
Israel has bent over backwards looking for peace and a solution to the Palestinian problem, but the truth is, anyone that cares to really investigate this issue will find:
1) The Palestinians do not want peace, they want death for Israel and its people.
2) The rest of the Arab-Muslim world is in agreement with them.
3) History proves 1 and 2
When anyone tries to weigh in on the issues that confront us today about the War on Terror, never let them forget the yesterdays that got us to this point.
I am a Christian American and I will always stand with Israel against the current taint upon the world that is the murder-driven and misguided fundamentalist movement within Islam. Change Islam and there will be peace. Allow it to fester further into the abomination it is becoming, then prepare for all out war.
"Peacelover" ?
No. Warmonger? Yes.
The jews have given the world so much that is good. Highly disproportionate to their numbers.
What, pray tell, have the fake Palestinians given? That is, those Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi Arab folks who streamed in to the mandate when they saw the Jews arriving in the late 1800s and early 1900s? Lets see, celebration of murderers, collaboration with Nazi's, support of evil dictators, and protracted low level wars whereby the antagonists commit war crimes on a daily basis, shoot their own people (the Dura incident), and do not negotiate in good faith, nor with any intention of honoring the agreements they make ...
Palestine exists today. It is named Jordon. Jordon recieved 80% of the mandate that was supposed to be for the Jews. The 20% that is left should remain for the Jews. That said, they are willing to share. The problem is that when Barak offered an overly fair (far more than these folks deserved) solution, your compratriates launched a war. A war that specifically targetted non-combatants. This is in violation of the Geneva conventions, and hence is a war crime.
The crimes being committed are against non-combatant civilians by the terrorist "palestinians". Destroying a house of a murderer is a muted response. This terrorist war that has been launched is unwinnable by the "palestinians", and is slowly being realized by the remaining and surviving command structure.
The game is over. Because your friends have not been able or willing to negotiate in good faith, a solution not to your liking or advantage, will be dictated to you. Deal with it.
Somehow, based upon past history, I do not believe for a moment that "solving" this problem will reduce Islamic terrorism world. A new scapegoat will be found, new Neville Chamberlin's will be sought, and the cycle will begin again. The problem is not Israel. The problem is Radical Islamism, though as Mr. Spencer indicates, it is really hard to find a non-radical version.
The solution to this problem is unpalatable. Unfortunately, if the radical islamists do not disappear, it may prove to be a simple case of them versus us. And we will not go away, so they will need to be made to.
I'm always amazed at people like peacemaker who see 'Jewish plots' everywhere, but some how can't see the very real Islamic plots right in front of their noses....even when the Muslims are screaming "Jihad" at volume 11.
What a Shameful day for a Zionist when he run out of the anti-Islam nonsense so he got to quote from another Zionist!!
Only Fools and Imposers Themselves Believe in these Lies.
Despite All of This, Everyday more and more people convert to Holy Islam and Evil Zionists can't Stop This. The World is getting prepared for The Holy Reign of Almighty Allah (swt)
Ah, Mahmoud, you are back. You are the Fool and the Imposer. Remember the Islam has been imposing its will for more than fourteen hundred years. Everyone knows that.
As for the poor people that are "converting to holy Islam," well, I wonder how many of them are doing so out of true conviction. Most likely they realize that they must because living as a dhimmi in Muslim controlled territory is intolerable. Perhaps they fear for their lives or for the lives of family members. Oh, well, any convert is better than none, eh Mahmoud?
Using violence and coercion to get what you want in the name of religion is a deadly sin, the greatest sin of all.
Taqiyya and Kitman, holy lying and deception. Read about it.
http://www.ci-ce-ct.com/Feature%20articles/02-12-2002.asp
mamoud,
you snarling puppy,
haven't you been fed
your carrion and moldy bread yet,
legacy left from the carnage
of the little boy or was it his brother
who blew themselves up for hate of the Other?
mamoud,
the mo-bot,
who has no compassion or love
for all human kind,
have you not noticed
your god has deserted you
and left you behind,
rewarding the Others
with happiness and wealth,
while you seethe and hate
and berate the Jews
who mo and his evil twin al-lah
couldn't convert or confuse.
the poetess - I could make a glib comment such as "rhyme on," which of course, is not accurate, but "keep it up" is a much better encouragement. We all wish we could be poets.
I was once told that to understand what to "do about Islam, I would need to learn about their poetry," but I still don't know what that means! Any ideas?
Babies are born into their cultur and absorb it with their mothers' milk. Most humans are basically good and want to live peacefully and make it through life with a minimum of problems and catastrophes. This includes all muslims. Most muslims are basically decent people. But they have had the bad fortune to be born into a culture and religion that is historically backward and has missed the connection with the modern world. The muslim world is full of frustration and resentment and lashes out at Israel and the USA. The religion of slam is being hijacked by an apocalyptic fascist death cult. There are similarities here to the rise of Nazism in Germany after the defeat of WW 1. Germany, a cultured and civilized country, went off the deep end in a form of collective psychosis. It's as if a feverish madness overtook the country and infected its population. The muslim world is currently undergoing a very similar experience in that it is under assault by a fevered, high-strung psychotic dream of a theocratic fascist islamic revival. I would venture that most muslims are simply overwhelmed by the difficulties of their own situation and their current historical predicament. The cultural tendency towards authoritarianism and oriental fatalism adds to the inherent passivity of the mass. The extreme islamic radical elements are the only strongly active component in this mix. Where is the strong response of the moderate muslim majority? Can it make itself heard? Why did Germany go fascist when most of its people didn't resist or speak out? What can we do to help an Islamic Reformation to speak out against the apocalyptic madmen who are bending Islam to their demented views?
Mike H
michael,
with all due respect, i and others have read the similiar article that you mention. the primary point is that islam is the only culture, religion, and/or society that was built on and actively promotes dominance. If any body refutes anything mentioned by islam, the muslims scream that it is a lie and/or plot. never has there been prove offered by any muslim to show otherwise. only statement is that it is the word of allah. what i find interesting is that everybody that has studied and is knowledgeable of islam accepts that islam is a "religion" based on dominance, and promotes the awareness of such.
To you muslims, when i say something is stated in the koran, the responce is always "what verse". it is not my job nor anyone elses to educate you on your degenerate religion. you should know what is written. but i guess it is easier to scream lies then face the truth.
"Regarding Peacelover's comments above"
Hmmm, again I see another misinfomred shallow thinking antisemite that the world cranks out at an alarming pace today despite the truth of what history shows happens to those who are intolerant, of which I would like to akinder to the 3 blind men and the elephant, as his antisemtic idea is basically a portion of the total issue.
Judeo Christian principles are the only principles in the world that inititate true freedom under governmental law. That means for folks like "peace lover", if he would just think about it, that if he believes he could express that sentiment (very uneducated) in any other country aginst the faith of that nation as his minority viewpoint outside the US, against the majority of his countrymen, then I invite him to go back to "jack ass" university of whichever "jackass" culture he has graduated and moved from. We don't need stupid Americans like that here. Patience stops here.
Relgion and politics require all the powers of the mind to understand, and it is obvious that the only burning that is going to happen to "peacelover" is if he turns up his cranium's light bulb wattage. The Arabs exist because of the Jewish state of Israel hasn't unleashed it's 300 warhead nuclear capability becuase they feel it is morally wrong to do so, and hey feel akin to their Arab brothers. I just wish Israel had a small enough warhead to stick it in "peacelovers" ear to erase the antisemite small minded thinking like his (an ironic name for an antisemite).
It's exactly the unforgiving and undeniably scary ability of people like him that lead to the repeat of history (whabism, nazism, communism). The only problem with war today is that it involves more and more people who are innocently brought into the actual combat, which the new radical Islam encourages via a cowardice towards combat.
I say that the people of the middle east better get rid of the asshole's like "peace lover" above before they all pay the price of Israel and the west running out of "rational patience" with the radicals who are morally decadent of the west and east. We don't swear on the the book of Islam in the US, we swear on the Bible, and if folks don't like it they can lump it. The majority overrules.....remember?
That's how we became "Americans" and "tolerant" in the first place. If you don't like the American rules you can always go back to wear you came from.....the only thing is, tolerance isn't big part of where "they" usually came from so they come here to the good old US! I only hope we remind ourselves of what is truly important.
Culturalism is what you find in a givin area of people (mindset) that tries to bind differences through common practices that are not based on any reasoning other than "for the moment" or "to feel good". Cultural requirements that the masses adhere to which are for no particular reason, but are "taught" may actually occur due to a lack of reasoning that causes that "culture" to remain glued and not progress, but may not be for the better of the group accept to "feel good" about themselves for the moment like Whabisim.
Timelessness is what is relevant through eternity that all cultures/religions and governments accept as universal goodness like "freedom" and "tolerance". I mean in other words, truth is about something, but reality is that about which truth is. End of story folks. Peacelover, go back and get an education and write in again. I can't believe that peple like him still exist......dugh! No wonder we need guns in America, like praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, cause the crazy's are poking up their ugly head again.
I see one major problem with the proposal to end Islamic radicalism through "clear and binding legal rulings by religious authorities which contradict the axioms of the radical worldview and virtually 'excommunicate' the radicals."
Unlike the major Christian sects, Islam has no central authority. To a Catholic, having the Pope declare that you're a heretic might mean something; to a Muslim, such a decree from some cleric just means that you need to find some other cleric to follow who agrees with your view.
"Peacelover" is a female American Muslim.
"Peacelover":
I believe my religion to be far superior to yours, but I also believe it senseless to try to argue that fact with Islamists. Therefore, I no longer do so. The only argument I use nowadays is actually similar to yours. There will be no peace on this earth until your side is completely eradicated from the face of the earth. If your side eradicates ours, then you will probably continue to kill off your fellow islamists, so there really won't be any peace under those circumstances. There is no peace without total victory. Arguing with each other is pissing into the wind.
Islamist posters frequently cite the "1.2 Billion Muslims" statistic to sound powerful. Well, however you look at it, that leaves 4.8 billion non-islamists, giving a ratio of 4 pissed off infidels for every 1 bloodthirsty brainwashed zombie islamist.
There will be no peace until there is total, complete victory. To Hell with arguing about it. Islam is a deep, abiding evil in this world, and it must be defeated with violent force.
SWE
The radicals think they are orthodox, because they ARE orthodox. Ijtihad works in this way:
1)check the koran, if the law is ambiguous or not there -
2)go to the hadith (=sunna), if the hadith are contradictory (which they are) -
3)go to the law schools (which are more hadith), if none of these offer a clear solution -
4) make a ruling based on the outlines of what Mo did following along points 1, 2, 3 above. You cannot deviate from them, 'cuz if you do, you are not following Islam laws.
Muhammad = friftar
If it is true that Peacelover is a muslim american woman I must say she is a perfect moron. Doesn´t she know her religion and the way they sea women?
Islam is war not peace. Muslims in western countries are lying about these. They want to conquer the West.
For me is a mistery that a western woman can embrace such a barbaric religion basicaly created for the sexual satisfaction of the moslem men.
She obviously was not born nor raised in America.
If she was she would more likely be a feminist blaming men for all her woes.
Miasarx
as an agnostic who has had a strong dislike of religion for years, i have to agree that secularism is no match for Islamic imperialism.
Nor is Democracy for all its beauty and humanity.
It seems that religion can only be fought with religion.
The downfall of religion, i once thought would bring the downfall of antisemitsm but that has not happened.
You are perhaps correct in stating that a return to religion would provide the backbone we need to start defending ourselves.
Foehammer
How is anti-semitism synonymous with anti-westernism and anti-americanism? Lots of Americans and Westerners hate Jews because of their deceitful ways, and their political lobbying in Washington. By the way, you are not a Christian American, you are a Jew, trying to convince REAL Christians to support the "brave", helicopter gunship-toting Israelis. The Israelis are the real enemies, drawing us into a pointless war with Islam.
Jose Maria, to add to your enigma:
It's also a mistery to me how can western guy could give up their faith so easily in order to marry a muslim girl. I live in Indonesia and I have seen many of my foreigner friends convert when they married to a local muslim girl. I'm so dissapointed on how easy they can lose their religion just because of chicks. They even change their name, make a public testimony on magazine/Television on how wonderful their new religion is!!! We the minority non muslim in Indonesia really feels betrayed by those converting westerner.
"Every dogs will have its day"
All those happy "reverts" to Islam can be explained. Either they too are Seekers After a Total Explanation of the Universe (there are plenty of those around, aren't there?), which Total Explanation Islam so conveniently provides, or it is a matter, as Salinger's character Buddy Glass explains about his sister Franny's infatuation with the absurd, non-Glass-family Lance, of "just sex talking."
"Peacelover" German? French? Or just a good religious Muslim? What lovely classic antisemitism.
Posted by Kozak at June 6, 2004 08:24 AM"
you know, kozak, when people say that antisemitism is directed towards only jews, that is wrong, if you did a bit of research before calling anything antisemitism, you would probably know. jews and arabs, specifically palestinians, came from the same descent. Semites are peoples who speak Semitic
languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians. so when you say antisemitic, you are saying that it is against arabs as well as jews.
jose maria: "If it is true that Peacelover is a muslim american woman I must say she is a perfect moron. Doesn´t she know her religion and the way they sea (sic.) women?" ok, im not sure about peacelover. but, i just happen to be a muslim american woman. born in NY, raised in NY and NJ, living in NJ. am i know my religion and i know the way they, as you put it, 'sea' women. i am completely fine with the was women are viewed, because i have all my rights. did you know that in islam, women have been having rights since 1400 years ago. women in america, on the other hand, got their rights a mere 150 years ago.
houj, thanks for the excellent post.
hey muslim piglet,
not only do you NOT know your degenerate koran, but you do not even have an idea of western nor US rigths. Women in the US may have gotten the right to vote 150 years ago, but women in muslim (arab) countries can not vote nor drive now. Please do not equate women in US or Europe with you pigs.
Like everybody has said, you have NO credibility.
Look, study your koran first, and then may be open your mouth to speak.
praise be the murdering pedophile.
shutup oinky.
i sincerely doubt you have a right to call Prophet Muhammed a pedophile. what exactly was that whole thing some time ago, with the bishops sexually molesting and harassing children? and all those sex scandals going on in churches, till today? before you attack others, look at your own back. dont go calling others what you are. aisha was the Prophet's most beloved wife. at least they were MARRIED, unlike your bishops.
muslim:
May I point out:
You came to OUR site looking to "express yourself" or have a debate. You have failed miserably to substantiate even a single argument. You sound like a simpleton. You can spew all you want, but that won't gain you any respect here. You have shown yourself to be willfully ignorant. Anyone claiming to "know" the absolute truth "because god said so" without providing some well-reasoned backup is just dismissed here as anti-intellectual. Not a single Muslim poster here has ever been able to compete in intellectual arguments and prevail. You are a typical example of the "faith answers all" Muslim mindset. That just doesn't cut it in the modern world, and especially not here at JW, where we know better. You don't impress us with your reasoning ability or critical-thinking skills, and you can't make us afraid of your nonsense. Don't even bother feeling "pretty damn bad" for us - we don't need it or want it.We will wipe Islam from the face of the planet before we will submit to it - and we have the will and the means to do it.
Go and play with the other little kids now, on your pro-jihad websites - you're WAY outclassed here.
Oh yeah - and MARRYING a nine year old before you have sex with her makes it OK. Glad to know that's how you think - so disgusting.
the difference muslim piglet, is that the catholic priests were sentenced and incarcerated, where as you pigs admire mohammed for his murders and pedophilia. CGW's statement is very correct. Go play with your suicide bomber dolls, and leave the debates to the knowledgable and informed.
good bye, no more responses to you.
Sorry, Peacelover. As a Christian, I weep that my Jewish neighbors don't know Messiah; but the Falastin Arabs lost my sympathy on 9/11 when they jigged in the streets. Further, any people that encourages ten-year-olds to strap on explosives is the heir of the Canaanites who passed their children through the fire, not of Abraham the friend of God.
I note as well that the thrice-accursed Great Shaitan USofA has given passport-holding, consular-protected, no-questions-asked voting citizenship to more Falastin Arabs than any seven Arab-majority states (Jordan excepted) put together. Indeed, the grandchildren and even great-grandchildren of the refugees of 1948 are still counted as stateless refugees. This, I fear, is yet another case of the Arab world cutting off its nose to spite its face.
Mike H, I generally like your posts, but disagree that people are basically good. That's Islam, and one reason why it is prey to every loopy conspiracy theory that comes around.
Hey, poetess:
How odd
Of God
To choose
The Jews.
But odder still
Are those who choose
The Jewish God
And hate the Jews.
It's not original, but it applies to people who name their sons Ibrahim, Yakub, Jawdad, Musa, Daoud, Suleiman, Ilias and Yunis as well as to early 20th century Christian anti-Semites.
kepha:
LOVED THAT!!!
Muslim: glad you make the point that the Jews, Arabs, and Aramaeans are related.
Oikonomakis, you don't have to call someone "piglet" in order to disagree.
Miasarx, Davo (and anyone else), I cordially invite you to consider Reformed (Calvinist) Christianity.
"Oh yeah - and MARRYING a nine year old before you have sex with her makes it OK. Glad to know that's how you think - so disgusting."
thanks for letting me know how YOU think, CGW- i guess you are fine with letting preists molest little kids. so you say it is disgusting, but you are totally OK with your own religious leaders having sex with children too, while unmarried. and as i pointed out before, it was considered perfectly normal, as it is today in many places.