U.S. Urges Americans to Exit Saudi Arabia

And perhaps we should get out of France, too, if this is any indication:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13715

I was thinking that if one had to live in Europe, Switzerland and Norway, would probably be a pretty good place to live. I don't think either have many muslims, and they are not part of the European Union.

Iraq abuse 'ordered from the top'

Images of the abuse have shocked the world

The US commander at the centre of the Iraqi prisoner scandal says she was told to treat detainees like dogs.

Brig Gen Janis Karpinski told the BBC she was being made a "convenient scapegoat" for abuse ordered by others.

Top US commander for Iraq, Gen Ricardo Sanchez, should be asked what he knew about the abuse, she told BBC Radio 4's On The Ropes programme.

One soldier has been sentenced and six others are awaiting courts martial for abuses committed at Abu Ghraib jail.

Gen Karpinski said more damaging information was likely to emerge at those trials.

Gen Karpinski was in charge of the military police unit that ran Abu Ghraib and other prisons when the abuses were committed. She has been suspended but not charged.

More details awaited

Photographs showing naked Iraqi detainees being humiliated and maltreated first started to surface in April, sparking shock and anger across the world.

Gen Karpinski said military intelligence took over part of the Abu Ghraib jail to "Gitmoize" their interrogations - make them more like what was happening in the US detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, which is nicknamed "Gitmo".

He said they are like dogs and if you allow them to believe at any point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them

General Karpinski

In pictures: Prisoner abuse

She said current Iraqi prisons chief Maj Gen Geoffrey Miller - who was in charge at Guantanamo Bay - visited her in Baghdad and said: "At Guantanamo Bay we learned that the prisoners have to earn every single thing that they have."

"He said they are like dogs and if you allow them to believe at any point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them."

Gen Karpinski repeated that she knew nothing of the humiliation and torture of Iraq prisoners that was going on inside Abu Ghraib - she was made a scapegoat.

Top commander Ricardo Sanchez must be asked serious questions about what he knew about the abuse and when, she said.

Gen Sanchez said in May that he took a personal responsibility for the abuse by soldiers at Abu Ghraib jail. But he denied authorising interrogation techniques such as sleep deprivation, stress positions or sensory deprivation.

Last week, he asked to be excused from any role in reviewing the results of an investigation into the abuses. He requested that a higher-ranking general take on that task, Pentagon officials said.

Karpinski fears she has been made a scapegoat

A US general who has investigated the abuse has blamed the soldiers - and found no evidence "of a policy or a direct order given to these soldiers to conduct what they did".

But Gen Karpinski believes the soldiers had not taken the pictures of their own accord.

"I know that the MP [military police] unit that these soldiers belonged to hadn't been in Abu Ghraib long enough to be so confident that one night or early morning they were going to take detainees out of their cells, pile them up and photograph themselves in various positions with these detainees."

"How it happened or why those photographs came to the Criminal Investigation Division's attention in January I think will probably come out very clearly at each individual's court martial."

On The Ropes can be heard on BBC Radio 4 on Tuesday 15 June at 0900 and 2100 BST.

Muslim comedians laugh at racism
By Jannat Jalil
BBC Washington reporter

Preacher Moss wants to use comedy to bridge the divide between Muslims and others

With his bushy black beard and skullcap, Azhar Usman strides on to the stage with a raucous "Assalam Aleikum."

"For those who don't know what that means, I'll explain it to you," he declares. "It means: 'I'm gonna kill you.'" The audience bursts into laughter.

But his accent reveals that as well as being a Muslim, Azhar Usman is also an American.

The "Allah Made Me Funny" comedy show is an attempt by a group of American Muslim comics to counter the negative stereotypes and attitudes about Muslims and Arabs by poking fun at themselves, their communities and the prejudices they face.

Skewering stereotypes

Like their Jewish or African American counterparts, the Muslim comedians in "Allah Made Me Funny" aren't afraid to poke fun at themselves.

There are jokes about Muslims being late and about faulty sound systems in mosques.

Just as Muslims feel that Islam is greatly misunderstood in America so too America is greatly misunderstood in the Muslim world

Azhar Usman, comedian

The show made its US debut at a club in Washington this week.

The founder of the show, Preacher Moss, says the intention is to bridge the gap between different communities, which he believes has widened since the 11 September attacks of 2001.

"Post-9/11, we wanted to do something to bring the Islamic community into the mainstream," says Mr Moss, an African-American Muslim. "It's an opportunity to have some dialogue and to make people, Muslims and non-Muslims, feel enlightened and entertained."

The audience at the show is unusually diverse for Washington.

Trendy young professionals sit alongside women in Islamic headscarves, African robes and Asian shawal kameezes.

This is where mainstream America meets Islam, not with conflict but with laughter.

"You have a fair amount of people here who aren't Muslim," says Mr Moss. "They're just interested in dialogue and having that fellowship that's been lacking. And you have Muslims out here who are trying to come out and express themselves as well."

Unifying humour

The response from the audience is overwhelmingly positive.

"Humour brings us all together," says one young woman. "It doesn't matter whether you're black, white, Muslim, Chinese, Indian. Humour is humour."

A Muslim man at the show says: "I think anything for the Muslims in the public eye is good right now especially if it is funny and it's showing people that we also have a sense of humour.

"In the jokes the comedians highlight things like stereotypes. This performs an educational function, so it's very positive," he added.

The comedian Azhar Usman says that as well as showing Americans that most Muslims are not fanatics, he also wants to take the show to Muslim countries to help the Islamic world gain a better understanding of America.

They have had requests to tour around the world including Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar.

"Now I think that this tour without a doubt is ready to really explode into the Muslim world, no pun intended," Mr Usman said.

"I think what's important to recognise is that just as Muslims feel that Islam is greatly misunderstood in America so too America is greatly misunderstood in the Muslim world," he added.

Justice

America's moral credibility among Muslims has been badly damaged by the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US soldiers. American leaders insist only a handful of soldiers are to blame.

What this show is aiming to do is demonstrate that the actions of a handful of extremists acting in the name of Islam have nothing to do with most Muslims.

But since the 11 September attacks, many Muslims now believe American justice is biased against them.

That's a theme Azhar Usman tackles in his stand-up routine.

"We've made a lot of progress towards ending racism in America," he tells the audience. "But we've been hearing about it for decades. A black man says he can never get a fair trial in America."

He pauses. "But Arabs and Muslims say they can't even get a trial."

The audience roars appreciatively.

But can he make fun of the Koran or Islam itself?

Yes, Arxos. We already know is it possible, and widely done for decades, making jokes about God and the Bible. But can you show us ONE instance of a muslim making fun of the Koran or Islam? On stage, just like this guy. Show us, and we may consider your side of the argument. (I did say May).

back to the topic:-

what the hell are they waiting for? for god's sake, get out.

Saudi Arabia's population is only about 20 million. all the important from janitor to nurses to oil explaration (their main economic activity) is done by foreigners. if all foreigners leave, their economy will collapse overnight.

i guess the smell of oil, money and profit negates any concern about human life, be they jew,christian or arab.

CitizenOTW:

In answer, I pull out my handy Umdat al-Salik, and reference section f1.3:

"Someone raised among Muslims who denies the obligatoriness of the prayer, zakat, fasting Ramadan, the pilgrimmage or the unlawfulness of wine and adultery, or denies something else upon which there is scholarly consensus and which is necessarily known as being of the religion thereby becomes an unbeliever (kafir) and is executed for his unbelief".

Ahhh... the Religion of Peace. And Irshad Manji is placing her hopes on iftihad???

The intimation that America really doesn't care what happens to the Saudi oil spigot is the big overlooked part of the story here. Bluff? Or what?

I think it's the U.S putting the Saudis on notice. Consider: 1) there are other sources for oil (Russia, Canada, and the U.S itself) 2) We're tired of our folks being killed over there 3) With Iraq mostly under control, Saudi becomes less important and 4) By pulling out of Saudi (however much) and by touting the energy bill (and ANWAR), Bush devestates the environmentalist/terrorist-sympathizing left. It should make great hay in the presidential and Senate election races.

Islam is one of the world's great religions. Let me be explicit about what I, as a historian of Islam who is not a Muslim, mean by that. Islam has brought comfort and peace of mind to countless millions of men and women. It has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives. It has taught people of different races to live in brotherhood and people of different creeds to live side by side in reasonable tolerance. It inspired a great civilization in which others besides Muslims lived creative and useful lives and which, by its achievement, enriched the whole world. But Islam, like other religions, has also known periods when it inspired in some of its followers a mood of hatred and violence. It is our misfortune that part, though by no means all or even most, of the Muslim world is now going through such a period, and that much, though again not all, of that hatred is directed against us.
We should not exaggerate the dimensions of the problem. The Muslim world is far from unanimous in its rejection of the West, nor have the Muslim regions of the Third World been the most passionate and the most extreme in their hostility. There are still significant numbers, in some quarters perhaps a majority, of Muslims with whom we share certain basic cultural and moral, social and political, beliefs and aspirations; there is still an imposing Western presence -- cultural, economic, diplomatic -- in Muslim lands, some of which are Western allies. Certainly nowhere in the Muslim world, in the Middle East or elsewhere, has American policy suffered disasters or encountered problems comparable to those in Southeast Asia or Central America. There is no Cuba, no Vietnam, in the Muslim world, and no place where American forces are involved as combatants or even as "advisers." But there is a Libya, an Iran, and a Lebanon, and a surge of hatred that distresses, alarms, and above all baffles Americans.
At times this hatred goes beyond hostility to specific interests or actions or policies or even countries and becomes a rejection of Western civilization as such, not only what it does but what it is, and the principles and values that it practices and professes. These are indeed seen as innately evil, and those who promote or accept them as the "enemies of God."

This phrase, which recurs so frequently in the language of the Iranian leadership, in both their judicial proceedings and their political pronouncements, must seem very strange to the modern outsider, whether religious or secular. The idea that God has enemies, and needs human help in order to identify and dispose of them, is a little difficult to assimilate. It is not, however, all that alien. The concept of the enemies of God is familiar in preclassical and classical antiquity, and in both the Old and New Testaments, as well as in the Koran. A particularly relevant version of the idea occurs in the dualist religions of ancient Iran, whose cosmogony assumed not one but two supreme powers. The Zoroastrian devil, unlike the Christian or Muslim or Jewish devil, is not one of God's creatures performing some of God's more mysterious tasks but an independent power, a supreme force of evil engaged in a cosmic struggle against God. This belief influenced a number of Christian, Muslim, and Jewish sects, through Manichaeism and other routes. The almost forgotten religion of the Manichees has given its name to the perception of problems as a stark and simple conflict between matching forces of pure good and pure evil.
The Koran is of course strictly monotheistic, and recognizes one God, one universal power only. There is a struggle in human hearts between good and evil, between God's commandments and the tempter, but this is seen as a struggle ordained by God, with its outcome preordained by God, serving as a test of mankind, and not, as in some of the old dualist religions, a struggle in which mankind has a crucial part to play in bringing about the victory of good over evil. Despite this monotheism, Islam, like Judaism and Christianity, was at various stages influenced, especially in Iran, by the dualist idea of a cosmic clash of good and evil, light and darkness, order and chaos, truth and falsehood, God and the Adversary, variously known as devil, Iblis, Satan, and by other names.
The Rise of the House of Unbelief
IN Islam the struggle of good and evil very soon acquired political and even military dimensions. Muhammad, it will be recalled, was not only a prophet and a teacher, like the founders of other religions; he was also the head of a polity and of a community, a ruler and a soldier. Hence his struggle involved a state and its armed forces. If the fighters in the war for Islam, the holy war "in the path of God," are fighting for God, it follows that their opponents are fighting against God. And since God is in principle the sovereign, the supreme head of the Islamic state -- and the Prophet and, after the Prophet, the caliphs are his vicegerents -- then God as sovereign commands the army. The army is God's army and the enemy is God's enemy. The duty of God's soldiers is to dispatch God's enemies as quickly as possible to the place where God will chastise them -- that is to say, the afterlife.

Clearly related to this is the basic division of mankind as perceived in Islam. Most, probably all, human societies have a way of distinguishing between themselves and others: insider and outsider, in-group and out-group, kinsman or neighbor and foreigner. These definitions not only define the outsider but also, and perhaps more particularly, help to define and illustrate our perception of ourselves.

In the classical Islamic view, to which many Muslims are beginning to return, the world and all mankind are divided into two: the House of Islam, where the Muslim law and faith prevail, and the rest, known as the House of Unbelief or the House of War, which it is the duty of Muslims ultimately to bring to Islam. But the greater part of the world is still outside Islam, and even inside the Islamic lands, according to the view of the Muslim radicals, the faith of Islam has been undermined and the law of Islam has been abrogated. The obligation of holy war therefore begins at home and continues abroad, against the same infidel enemy.

Like every other civilization known to human history, the Muslim world in its heyday saw itself as the center of truth and enlightenment, surrounded by infidel barbarians whom it would in due course enlighten and civilize. But between the different groups of barbarians there was a crucial difference. The barbarians to the east and the south were polytheists and idolaters, offering no serious threat and no competition at all to Islam. In the north and west, in contrast, Muslims from an early date recognized a genuine rival -- a competing world religion, a distinctive civilization inspired by that religion, and an empire that, though much smaller than theirs, was no less ambitious in its claims and aspirations. This was the entity known to itself and others as Christendom, a term that was long almost identical with Europe.

The struggle between these rival systems has now lasted for some fourteen centuries. It began with the advent of Islam, in the seventh century, and has continued virtually to the present day. It has consisted of a long series of attacks and counterattacks, jihads and crusades, conquests and reconquests. For the first thousand years Islam was advancing, Christendom in retreat and under threat. The new faith conquered the old Christian lands of the Levant and North Africa, and invaded Europe, ruling for a while in Sicily, Spain, Portugal, and even parts of France. The attempt by the Crusaders to recover the lost lands of Christendom in the east was held and thrown back, and even the Muslims' loss of southwestern Europe to the Reconquista was amply compensated by the Islamic advance into southeastern Europe, which twice reached as far as Vienna. For the past three hundred years, since the failure of the second Turkish siege of Vienna in 1683 and the rise of the European colonial empires in Asia and Africa, Islam has been on the defensive, and the Christian and post-Christian civilization of Europe and her daughters has brought the whole world, including Islam, within its orbit.

Extract from:
www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm
interesting atricle...

Iran reportedly is readying troops to move into Iraq if U.S. troops pull out, leaving a security vacuum.
The Saudi daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, monitored in Beirut, reports Iran has massed four battalions at the border.
Al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted "reliable Iraqi sources" as saying, "Iran moved part of its regular military forces towards the Iraqi border in the southern sector at a time its military intelligence agents were operating inside Iraqi territory."
Iran Massing Troops on Iraq Border
NewsMax Wires
Tuesday, June 15, 2004

Like I said the Iranis are trying to take Iraq are the Iraqis going to let Iran invade Iraq and Saudi A.??? this is the ?? are the Arabs going to let??

PEACEFUL MUSLIM HYPOCRITES:
Qur’an 48:11 “The desert Arabs who lagged behind [in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): ‘We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and our families.’ We have prepared for them a Blazing Fire!”
Qur’an 48:17 “There is no blame for the blind, nor is it a sin for the lame, nor on one ill if he joins not in the fighting. But he who retreats, (Allah) will punish him with a painful doom.”
Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”
Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong and high! If some good befalls, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ but if evil, they say, ‘This is from you (Muhammad).’ Say: ‘All things are from Allah.’ So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”
Qur’an 4:88 “What is the matter with you that you are divided about the Hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (causing their disbelief). Would you guide those whom Allah has thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah has thrown aside and led astray, never shall they find the Way.” Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
Qur’an 47:20 “Those who believe say, ‘How is it that no surah was sent down (for us)?’ But when a categorical [decisive or uncompromising] surah is revealed, and fighting and war (Jihad, holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) are ordained, you will see those with diseased hearts looking at you (Muhammad) fainting unto death. Therefore woe unto them!”
Qur’an 47:21 “Were they to obey, showing their obedience in modest speech, after the matter (of preparation for Jihad) had been determined for them, it would have been better. Is it to be expected that if you were put in authority and given command that you would do mischief in the land and sever your ties of kinship. Such men are cursed by Allah. He has made them deaf, dumb and blind.”
Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!”
Qur’an 4.:8 “Except those who are feeble—men, women and children—who cannot devise a plan nor have the means or power. These are those whom Allah is likely to forgive.”
Qur’an 9:16 “Do you think you will get away before Allah knows who among you have striven hard and fought?”
Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allah (i.e., Jihad) you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you march, He will afflict and punish you with a painful torture, and put others in your place. But you cannot harm Him in the least.”
Qur’an 9:43 “May Allah forgive you (Muhammad). Why did you grant them leave (for remaining behind; you should have persisted as regards to your order to them to proceed on Jihad), until you had known the liars.”
Qur’an 9:44 “Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day do not ask for an exemption from fighting with your goods and persons. And Allah knows well those who do their duty.”
Qur’an 9:45 “Only those ask for exemption (from Jihad) who believe not in Allah and whose hearts are in doubt, so that they are tossed to and fro. If they had intended to march out to fight, they would certainly have made some preparation and readied their equipment; but Allah was averse to their being sent forth; so He made them lag behind. ‘Sit you among those who sit.’ If they had marched with you, they would not have added to your (strength) but only (made for) discord, spying and sowing sedition. There would have been some in your midst who would have listened to them. But Allah knows well those [peace-loving Muslims] who do wrong and are wicked.”
Qur’an 9:48 “They had plotted sedition before, and upset matters for you until the Decree of Allah [to fight] became manifest, much to their disgust. Among them are many who say: ‘Grant me exemption to stay back at home (exempted from Jihad). And do not tempt me [with promises of booty].’ Have they not fallen into temptation already? Indeed, Hell surrounds them.”
Qur’an 9:67 “The Hypocrites enjoin what is forbidden, and forbid what Islam commands. They withhold their hands (from spending in Allah’s Cause [Jihad]). They have forgotten Allah so He has forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are oblivious, rebellious and perverse.”
Qur’an 9:68 “Allah has promised the Hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers the Fire of Hell for their abode: Therein shall they dwell. It will suffice them. On them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment, a lasting torment.”
Qur’an 9:74 “The Hypocrites swear by Allah that they said nothing, but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they disbelieved after Surrender (accepting Islam). They meditated a plot (to murder Prophet Muhammad) which they were unable to carry out. The reason for this revenge of theirs was the bounty [of booty] with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back, Allah will punish them with a grievous torment in this life and in the Hereafter.”
Qur’an 9:75 “Some of you made a deal with Allah, saying, ‘If You give us booty we shall pay You the tax.’ But when He gave them booty, they became greedy and refused to pay. As a consequence of breaking their promises, Allah filled their hearts with hypocrisy which will last forever.”
Qur’an 9:77 “He punished them by putting hypocrisy in their hearts until the Day whereon they shall meet Him, because they lied to Allah and failed to perform as promised. Allah knows their secrets. Those who slander and taunt the believers who pay the zakat (for Allah’s Cause) voluntarily and throw ridicule on them, scoffing, Allah will throw back their taunts, and they shall have a painful doom. Whether you ask for their forgiveness or not, (their sin is unforgivable). If you ask seventy times for their forgiveness Allah will not forgive them.”
Qur’an 9:81 “Those who stayed behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and lives in the Cause of Allah. They said, ‘Go not forth in the heat.’ Say, ‘The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.’ If only they could understand! So let them laugh a little, for they will weep much as a reward for what they did. If Allah brings you back (from the campaign) to a party of the hypocrites and they ask to go out to fight, say: ‘You shall never go out to fight with me against a foe. You were content sitting inactive on the first occasion. So sit with the useless men who lag behind.’ Do not pray for any of them (Muhammad) that die, nor stand at his grave. They rejected Allah and disbelieved His Messenger. They died in a state of perverse rebellion.”
Qur’an 9:85 “And let not their wealth or (following in) sons dazzle you or excite your admiration. Allah’s plan is to punish them with these things in this world, and to make sure their souls perish while they are unbelievers. When a surah comes down enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive hard and fight along with His Messenger, those with wealth and influence among them ask you for exemption from Jihad. They prefer to be with (their women), who remain behind (at home). Their hearts are sealed and so they understand not.”
Qur’an 9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe him, strive hard and fight jihad with their wealth and lives (in Allah’s Cause).”
Qur’an 9:90 “And there were among the wandering desert Arabs men who made excuses and came to claim exemption (from the battle). Those who lied to Allah and His Messenger sat at home. Soon will a grievous torment seize them.”
Qur’an 9:93 “The (complaint) is against those who claim exemption [from fighting] while they are rich. They prefer to stay with the (women) who remain behind (at home). Allah has sealed their hearts. They are content to be useless. Say: ‘Present no excuses: we shall not believe you.’ It is your actions that Allah and His Messenger will observe. They will swear to you by Allah, when you return hoping that you might leave them alone. So turn away from them, for they are unclean, an abomination, and Hell is their dwelling-place, a fitting recompense for them.”
Qur’an 9:97 “The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger. Some of the Bedouins look upon their payments (for Allah’s Cause) as a fine and wish disasters to fall on you (so that they might not have to pay). Yet on them be the disaster of evil.”
Qur’an 9:101 “Among the desert Arabs are hypocrites. They, like the people of Medina are obstinate in hypocrisy. We know them. Twice shall We punish them, and in addition they shall be brought back to a horrible torment.”
Qur’an 9:120 “It is not fitting for the people of Medina and the Bedouin Arabs to refuse to follow Allah’s Messenger (Muhammad when fighting in Allah’s Cause), nor to prefer their own lives to his life. They suffer neither thirst nor fatigue in Allah’s Cause, no do they go without reward. They do not take steps to raise the anger of disbelievers, nor inflict any injury upon an enemy without it being written to their credit as a deed of righteousness.”
Tabari IX:13 “Muhammad turned to see Umm, a pregnant woman, who said, ‘O Messenger! Kill those [Muslims] who flee from you as you kill those who fight you, for they deserve death. Here is my dagger. If any come near me I will rip them up and slit open their belly with it.’”
Tabari IX:49 “One of the hypocrites, feeling an aversion to battle, being skeptical of the truth, and spreading false rumors about Muhammad, said that they should not go out in the heat. With regard to him, Allah revealed: ‘They said, “Do not march out in the heat.” Say, “The heat of hell is far more intense.”’”
Ishaq:602 “Jadd told Muhammad, ‘Will you allow me to stay behind and not tempt me? Everyone knows that I am strongly addicted to women. I’m afraid that I’ll see Byzantine women and will not be able to control myself.’ The Apostle gave him permission to remain behind. It was about him that Allah sent down: ‘There are some who say: “Give me leave to stay behind and do not tempt me.” Surely they have fallen into temptation already and hell encompasses these unbelievers.’ (9:49) It was not that he feared the temptation from the Byzantine women. The temptation he had fallen into was greater in that he had hung back from the Apostle and sought to please himself rather than Muhammad. Verily hell awaits him.”
Ishaq:603 “One of the estranged ones said to another, ‘Don’t go out to fight in this heat.’ He disliked strenuous war, doubted the truth, and created misgivings about the Apostle. So Allah sent down regarding them, ‘And they said, “Do not go out in this heat.” Say, “The fires of hell are hotter. Let them laugh a little now for they will weep a great deal later as a reward for what they did.’” (5:82)
Ishaq:603 “Some Bedouins came to apologize for not going into battle, but Allah would not accept their excuses.”
Ishaq:246 “The surah of the Hypocrites came down because some men sent secret messages to the Nadir Jews when the Apostle besieged them. So Allah sent down, “Have you not considered the Hypocrites who say to their brethren, the People of the Book [Jews], ‘We shall never obey anyone against you. If you are attacked and driven out we will help you. Allah bears witness that they are liars.’”
Qur’an 59:11 “Have you not observed the Hypocrites saying to their unbelieving brethren among the People of the Book, ‘If you are expelled [from your homes by the Muslims], we will go with you?’ But Allah is witness that they are liars. If the Jews are expelled, never will the Hypocrites go with them; if they are attacked, they will not help them defend themselves. In truth you [jihadist Muslims] are more fearful and awful (than they) because they are afraid of you. This is a result of the terror (sent) by Allah. They are men devoid of understanding.” Qur’an 59:14 “They are a divided people devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so both of them will end up in Hell.”
Qur’an 8:20 “O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger. Do not turn away from him when you hear him speak. Do not be like those who say, ‘We hear,’ but do not listen. Those who do not obey are the worst of beasts, the vilest of animals in the sight of Allah. They are deaf and dumb. Those who do not understand are senseless. If Allah had seen any good in them, He would have made them listen. And even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away and declined submission.”
Qur’an 8:47 “Be not as those who came from their homes full of their own importance, trying to turn men away from [fighting] in Allah’s Cause. Allah is encircling them. Satan made their acts seem alluring to them, and said: ‘No one can conquer you this day, while I am near you.’ But when the two armies came in sight of each other, he turned on his heels, and said: ‘Lo! I am not with you. I see what you cannot. Verily, I fear Allah: for Allah is severe in punishment.’”
Qur’an 8:49 “When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘The religion has deceived and misled them.’”
Qur’an 8:55 “Verily the worst of creatures, the vilest of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him and will not believe. They are those with whom you make an agreement, but they break their covenant every time, and they keep not their duty [to fight].”
Qur’an 61:2 “O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.”
Qur’an 63:1 “When the Hypocrites come to you they say, ‘We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allah.’ Allah knows you are His Messenger, and Allah bears witness the Hypocrites are indeed liars.” Qur’an 63:2 “They have made their oaths a screen, thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of Allah: truly evil are their deeds. That is because they believed, then they rejected Faith: So a seal was set on their hearts.”
Qur’an 63:4 “When you look at the Hypocrites, their bodies please you; and when they speak, you listen to their words. They are pieces of wood propped up. They think every cry is against them. They are the enemies; so beware of them. The curse of Allah is on them! Allah will destroy them. How are they deluded and perverted?” Qur’an 63:6 “It is equal to them whether you ask forgiveness or not. Allah will never forgive them. Allah does not forgive the transgressing people.”
Qur’an 63:7 “The Hypocrites are the ones who say, ‘Spend nothing on those who are with Allah’s Messenger so that they will desert him.’ But to Allah belong the treasures of the earth; but the Hypocrites understand not. They say, ‘If we return to Medina, surely the more honorable (element) will expel the meaner (i.e., Muhammad).’”
Ishaq:372 ““When he went out, Abd Allah bin Ubayy [the man who had advised against leaving town] came back with 300 men, saying, ‘We do not know why we should get ourselves killed here.’ So he went back to Medina with the Hypocrites and doubters who followed him. Abd Allah bin Amr said, ‘Allah curse you, enemies of Allah

Right out of the Iran's hand book???

Part of the American Tribe

Look at the whole picture!!

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage tostay the Course to Victory Amen

PS axos you are a child walking among men!

axos
We aint paying no dinny tax!!!

Can you eat oil???
Our crongress is voting on an engery bill now turn on c-span!

Even your mo-ham-od said you could not farm so muslums will starve and the greenis can't help you!!

Remember Americans believe a gun in Hand is better than 2 cops on the phone!!!

We will use our grains for our cars and the muslums will starve!!!!

Oh My!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Notice no raza or mo-ham-od for a few days???

Arrest in Paris today?

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Fources and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Personally no American should EVER EVER EVER EVER go to ANY Middle Eastern Country. We are not respected there and there's nothing there for us but hate, violence so why pay all that freaking money to go there? Every US CITIZEN needs to get the hell out of Saudi Arabia and let Iraqis, Iranians, Saudis murder each other who gives a flying f****. Let them fight one another to the death, the less we have to kill and our tax money goes to keep them fed and clothed in prison the better. I'm sick of supporting these people with MY MONEY. If you continue to attack the US our freedoms and way of life then you deserve to die.

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm

Concise roundup of the situation...check it out!

Your point!
Yes Berg worked with the Terrorist and they druged him before they killed him! Moore has him on film 16min moores people would not have had talked to him that long if he would have been a Bush supporter? But he was killed by those he thought were his Freinds Yes he was your computer guy moving money? After a few busts you thought he had betraded you? No we are just smarter than you creeps!!!

We know now that it is Iran at war with the Iraqi People!!
There is in fighting as there was in the qu-ran with the people of the desert?
Today they have the USA on their side and you will loose!!!

Soon we will just block off the street and kill all those dancing who would kill the Iraqi People!
Kill a Few to save the Many we have done this before look at WW2 and Japan?

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at June 14, 2004 10:51 AM

With all we know we are Winning!!! Keep the Faith and tell others what you have learned!!

We are not crying for these mulsum killers any more we have seen the truth!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Force and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at June 14, 2004 12:02 PM
joseph
Grow-up!
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – A Sri Lankan businessman accused of brokering black market deals for nuclear technology was arrested Friday in Malaysia, government officials said.
Buhary Syed Abu Tahir, who allegedly worked with disgraced Pakistani scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan to sell nuclear secrets to rogue states, was detained for threatening Malaysia's national security, officials told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
Tahir became close to Abdullah's son and was a director in his holding company for part of the time that the centrifuge deal was negotiated. Kamaluddin has since cut all ties with Tahir.
When revelations about Tahir's role broke earlier this year, the prime minister insisted they would be investigated without fear or favor.
Malaysia Arrests Key Figure in Nuclear Trafficking
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, May 28, 2004

Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, ‘By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.’ The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away.”
Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad.” Tabari VII:150 “I had tied my prisoner’s thumbs together with my bowstring. The Messenger of Allah looked at him and laughed so that his back teeth could be seen. Then he questioned me and I told him what had happened. ‘Well done!’ he said, and prayed for me to be blessed.”
Ishaq:434 “Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, ‘You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.’”
Tabari VIII:22 “Hassan was with the women and children. A Jew passed by and began to walk around his settlement. There was no one to protect them while the Apostle and his Companions were at the Meccans’ throats. So I said: ‘Hassan, this Jew is walking around. I fear he will point out our weakness while the Muslims are too busy to attend to us. So go down to him and kill him.”
Joseph Proof that the beauty among arabs are because of Jewish Blood!!
Tabari VIII:38 “The Messenger divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.”

Axos here is the kicker!!!
Qur’an 97:5 “There is peace until the dawning of the day!”
Ishaq:515 “When the people of Fadak heard what had happened, they sent word to the Messenger, asking him to banish them and spare their lives, saying they too would leave him their property. When the people of Khaybar surrendered on these conditions, the survivors asked Muhammad to employ them on their farms for a half share of whatever they produced. They said, ‘We know more about farming [seeing that you are terrorists and all].’ So Muhammad made peace with them for a half share, provided that: ‘If we want to expel you, we may.’ He made a similar arrangement with Fadak. So Khaybar became the prey of the Muslims, while Fadak belonged exclusively to the Messenger of Allah, becoming his personal property, because the Muslims had not attacked its people with cavalry.”
Where were you when the cut the head of Mr. Burg off and where were you when the mulsums dragged and burned 4 Americans and hung them and Danced with joy?
I don't remember any sorrys from you?
We don't believe you are helping find the terrorist killers they want to kill your kind too? The Mulsums are sending Mulsums to kill Iraqi People what are you doing about it?

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Figthing Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at June 14, 2004 12:11 PM
Annie
If we can't be in the middle east then we don't need to feed them and we can drill for oil in our own country! We will have to gt rid of every Mulsum in this great country! USA a Mulsum Free Zone!! I don't care what the French think they will be dead or mulsum!!!I don't care what the libs think they will run away like the French!! We want the Brave and have always had them and have always had the cowards too But we have Always won!! It is Kill or Be Killed and I will bet Americans will Pick KILL!!
Annie
notice that raza and mo-ham-od are not around that puts axos with them yes he is a terrorist do not be afraid we will get him too!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at June 14, 2004 12:54 PM

Just saw the Video feed of the Blast again and if you can see it it was a bllast from underground? Were these guys UN inspetors looking for the goods? and the ammo dump was blown by the terrorist? and the stupid Iraqis where hanging around could some of the stuff been cems. We will have to see how many get sick?
And heard some were French thought that the French were not in this hunt?
I have a Plan they will like send them to their Maker!! Sence they send their young to die all over the world and convence others to kill we can send over some MOABs and just take them out???

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who fight with them give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS remember the mulsums are pissed at the desert mulsums that is Iran will take out Saudi!
Posted by: Catherine at June 14, 2004 02:17 PM
We rednecks just dont stand there when our children are in the street saying little johnny get out of the street 50 times untill a truck runs over little johnny. We go over and pull little johnny out of the street before the trucks comes?
Well we know how the Europeans are we have seen it in WW1&WW2 they let the truck run over them!

I say we get 50 votes in the U.N we have 50 states? I say send in the planes before the truck comes down that road!!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Force and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at June 14, 2004 02:33 PM

Mutilation of victims and Muslim law
By Jeff Jacoby | June 13, 2004
"A RECENT FATWA posted on a popular Islamic website in Saudi Arabia," reports Neil McFarquhar in The New York Times, "explains when a Muslim may mutilate the corpse of an infidel."
The ruling by Sheik Omar Abdullah Hassan al-Shehabi specifies two circumstances in which the desecration of an infidel -- a non-Muslim -- is permitted. One is retaliation "when the enemy is disfiguring Muslim corpses or when it otherwise serves the Islamic nation." The other is when mutilation will "terrorize the enemy" or "gladden the heart of a Muslim warrior."
Given those conditions, it is hard to imagine a situation in which an Islamist militant couldn't justify the mutilation of a victim's body.

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS people of Iran we will not wait forever for you to take your goverment! We have to Protect ourselfs and in this game of Kill or be Killed We the American People Pick Kill!!!

We will Forgive ourselfs like our Grandparents did in WW2 Remember the USA lost 400,000 Good Young Men BUT the World lost 50,000,000

catherine your a nut

a redneck nut

Yea she is...but don't you feel like riding her?

I am tired of reading the same quotes from the koran and bible. The same response to any idiot that contradicts the realities. Some of you have called me inhumane, crazy, illiterate, and more. Take note, I have an MBA, I speak: English, Greek, Arabic, French, Spanish, and German. I do read islamic and muslim sites in all these languages. John, Joseph, Philip, Susan B, Arxos, and all mulsim pigs, pay close attention.:
In all of the above muslim sites (over 50 in 6 languages), there are many mulsims who advocate the extermination of jews and Christians. Not one muslim voice contradicts nor proposes a compromise to this vile believe. Yet you pig muslims come to this and other sites and get offended and upset when I commend the Bosnian Serbs, and I propose more Srebenicas for the defense of non-muslims. You muslim pigs and idiot supporters have no right to criticize me for wanting the survival of my kind. We can express our frustration on these pages all we want, but unless we can convince the main stream population of the dangers, we are just blowing air. I and many others have lived with islam all of our lives, and we despise it. It IS a disease that needs to be eradicated.

Bravo Oikonomakis!

Wait a minute, I got it!
What if some-one made jokes ABOUT ISLAM ITSELF?
What if you got a non-muslim comedian, who made jokes about Islam, the Koran, and Mohammed?
What if that happened?
If people can make jokes about other religions, then why can't they make jokes about Islam?

I'd like to see some-one really try it. There must be some really good comedian who has the cojones to do something like that.

Oikonomakis,

The US would hand Greece over on a silver platter to Turkey in the blink of an eyelid so you may have to go back up the mountains and sing your klephtic songs faster than you think...Me, I'm having a little difficulty deciding which is the bigger threat: Jihadis or the US. Remember the lessons of ancient Greek history. When the Persian threat was vanquished the Athenians coerced the members of the alliance who wanted to withdraw and stop paying the contribution etc...The contribution then became an elaborate protection racket. Hegemony weights more when the coast is clear. Although I praise western civilization, I simultaneously fear the course it might be taking. On the other hand let me view this realistically and pick my sides Islamic expansionism or US cultural hegemony...hmmm I'll chose the later.

ohh and Oikonomakis something else. Do you know where Napalm was tried out for the first time??? You guessed it, it was in Greece in another one of those 'democracy installing ventures'. But you probably know this already. Or are you one of those Greeks who really thinks there was a civil war?

hey arxos,
In ancient Greece we did not have islam, if we did the Spartans would have known what to do. Not like the politicaly correct idiots of today. Islam's goal is to take over the world. Pure and simple, US culture is by choice, yet what is funny, every Friday when muslim pigs protest this or that, they are in the streets and behind them are bilboards of PEPSI; YAHOO; LEVIS, etc.

Islam is full of fucking hypocrates.

Do not ever say about greeks in moutains again, we lived it once and never again. We already know how to slaughter muslims like lambs at easter.

May there be many more Srebenicas. (orthodox, not USA)
So - AI GA ME ZOU

arxos,
do you really believe the bullshit you say or do you think the rest of us are just ignorant.

You, idiot, have no credibility what so ever.

Hey, may be the cause of the world's evil are the space aliens who want to take over the world, HMMMM. Good theory, more plausable than yours so far.

Oikonomakis,

I suggest you read "the prince" by Machiavelli. In politics you never ally yourself with the stronger of the two sides because that usually amounts to increased servitude. But you see if the stronger of the two is defeated then you have what we call opportunity...or maybe you are still waiting for your ally’s to let you march into Smyrna again and then watch from the battleships AS ALL GREEK POPULATIONS ARE SLAUGHTERED AND EXPELLED.

axos
again wrong!!

Joseph
Yes my God loves Rednecks!!

Vote today on drilling for oil here in the USA and they frist voted no untill thy had to record their votes

You go Trancredio!!

Can the Arabs eat oil we are voteing to use our grains for our cars!!!

axos remember I'm a hunter and like to kill and skin things and in my mind you are a thing!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS another agreement with the USA energy Plan!!

Catherine, you doll, please, you're killing us with these novels, sweetheart.

Arxhole, you are a part of the Earth's tarter. You support the two legged version of the bubonic plague.

Islam is so adept at insulting our intelligence that they don't know when to shut up, and end up telling on themselves. You are the ignorant ones, not us. We're onto your plans.

You trying to outsmart us is like a chimp hopping off the vines he swings from, walking into a college classroom (knuckles dragging and everything), and getting the highest grade in the biology class. Give us a break.

Oikonomakis,

On a lighter note since you are accusing me of political correctness (I would practice it if it was reciprocatory) I shall come out and say I'm proud that there are no turks or minarets left in Greece too! 50.000 cleared away from the Peloponese in 1821.

ok gota say goodbye..work's up...and I ain't staying here any more....it's a sunny day. Catch you later.

now we can clear the world of muslims. glad to see you converted.

I am not poiliticaly correct, and I am proud of the fact. All those who do choose to be politicaly correct are dead now.

I will send you money so you can buy a couple of good history books, may be next time you will know what you talk about.

MALAKA

TO OIKO: Arxos thinks that if he read The Prince everything becomes sooo pathetically easy. As if no ideological and religious differences come into consideration in any balance of power analysis.
If he is so darn smart after reading the Prince why doesnt he advocate allying with USSR when it was on the verge of collapes... it was weaker THEN...
Arxos... our history IS full of Machiavellism, no need to re-read his freaking Book...

Oikonomakis I support fully your fight with these muslim pigs. I don´t believe them at all. I know (as they know) that their aim is to impose islam in the whole world. May be they would tolerate other religions but as slaves not equals.

They lie or they are intellectual dwarfs.

Islam is a bait for animal people because of the sex promises they give to their followers.

That religion is a big fraud and must be destroyed the sooner the better.

gracia Jose Maria,
¿donde estas?

Point of fact: Napalm first used in WWII against the Germans in Normandy.

My father still has vivid memories of panzer crews screaming unto death....

Oikonomakis estoy en España, puedes enviarme un correo si lo deseas, pero sin ficheros adjuntos porque algún cerdo musulmán se dedica a enviarme virus y no los abro.

Saludos y mis respetos por tu coraje con estos locos asesinos.

I just popped into a net-caf here in sunny London to say one more thing.

Oikonomakis,

The Greeks would have kicked Attila's ass in Cyprus just as we did with the British if it was not for the cronies of the US:the military Junta. They were good boys and did as they were told. That is why our Greek brothers had no bullets in the front, that is why the Kaikia full of Cretans were turned back by US and British battleships. The mere survival of Hellenic/Greek culture through the ravages of history goes a long way in outlining the Hellenic/Greek spirit, unique in resolve and seniority in the Heimos(Balkan) peninsula. Remember the Illyrians (albanians), are still confused as to their origins and heritage, which is none other than Hellenic. They were converted to Islam in a mishap of history and must be re-helenized because in essence they are another Greek tribe (Dorians,Ionians, Macedonians, Illyrians). So think about diverting your energy to that topic.

Catherine,

I'm really flattered that you feel like hunting me down baby...in fact you turn me on too..I've been meaning to tell you.

José Maria Saludos de otro español
Oikonomakis, your knowledges about this chapters are very great and I would like to ask you, do you know if is true that catholic albanians were attacked for followers of UCK and other muslims, and the second question is it true that Rugova is now catholic, greetings

Where's Hans?

oikonomakis said:

In all of the above muslim sites (over 50 in 6 languages), there are many mulsims who advocate the extermination of jews and Christians. Not one muslim voice contradicts nor proposes a compromise to this vile believe. Yet you pig muslims come to this and other sites and get offended and upset when I commend the Bosnian Serbs, and I propose more Srebenicas for the defense of non-muslims.

Good. Get every last American out of there so we won't have to worry about hitting them when we bomb Saudi.

Sooner the better.

This headline seems under-rated.
"U.S. Evacuates Americans from Saudi Arabia" is more preferable.
Either The Corporations will start to level up the salary of their employees in order to keep them in place or george bush will invade south pole this time, after scientists discovered there are oil fields there.

Oikonomakis.

Hey, wait just a second here, HOW did I become a "MUSLIM PIG"?

Have you not read ANY of my postings?
They have been everything BUT nice towards anthing Islamic.

I also asked you to e-mail me so we could talk privately about Bosnia, I wanted to hear the truth about what really went on there.

Before you start throwing out random accusations, go back, look my postings over and until then, BACK OFF JACK!

Susan B~ case of mistaken identity? Maybe he was reaching for another name and yours came to mind to fill the gap. Remember he may not have had his coffee yet...

Cato~ *thinks* I believe it was Cato who said 'And we Must destroy Carthage' each time he finished a speech?

Mahmoud~ if the 'Deep Origins' theory of oil formation is right, there may well Be oil under Antarctica. They may well Have to up the salaries of those in SA to keep them from running to -100 temps for it.

this is a excellent site

it is the daily stream of the linktv show mosaic
which broadcasts clips of a bunch of middle eastern news programs. you would be suprised how unbiased some of them are. though almanar of lebanon is pretty biased but they make up for it with a cute news reader. really sucks though that the bigdogs
the al arabia and the aljazeera are not on mosaic..

http://linktv.org/mosaic/streamsArchive/streamPop.php4?caller=http://www.archive.org/download&prefix=Mosaic20040614&name=Mosaic20040614&filetype=mov

you will need the quicktime plug from apple or quicktime alternative to watch the stream

but please watch it. it might give you a better
understanding of the situation to see all perspectives.

wasnt there a napalm type weapon from medievel times it was called greek fire

"U.S. Evacuates Americans from Saudi Arabia" is more preferable.
Either The Corporations will start to level up the salary of their employees in order to keep them in place or george bush will invade south pole this time, after scientists discovered there are oil fields there.

Posted by Mahmoud at June 15, 2004 02:31 PM

Your spelling is improving, Twinkie. However, your lack of gray matter, remains intact. Since the Saudi liars let the terrorist genie out of the bottle, and don't know how to put it back in, as usual, America will have to go in and wipe their sorry ass. Just like we do all over the globe.

If you idiots spent half the time reading that you do blaming us for your miserable lives, you'd be so much more respected. A 62% illiteracy rate in all of Islam, and you and the cretins Raisin, Salad, Jihadine, and Arxhole, are trying to match wits here. Some of us know more about your blood cult than you do.

Here you are, wanting a different headline to the story so it looks like we're cowering and you're terrorist idols are winning. You ought to go count the Iraqi/Taliban corpses, and I'm aware that you'll need help once you get past 12, before you and Raisin begin to call Americans cowards.

We don't duck and hide, like your heroes. You Islamists are nothing but 20-40 year old adolescents, punks, in need of the trip to the wood shed that they're now receiving.

Gary,

He almost made say really, really, really bad things!

But, I'll give him some slack, your right.

Susan B,
I deeply apologize. I probably meant another Susan, please forgive me. Yesterday there was a Susan B who wrote that I should be expelled from DHIMMI. I really do appreciate you informing me, I should be more careful with names. My email is an active account, did not recieve anything. Any way I did not call her muslim pig, I mentioned names and then I referred myself to muslims (No offense Chan ad)

Susan B,
what bad things?

We want to know!!!

Chan ‘ad,
Salaam allahkum, I do appreciate and admire your eloquent response. I do enjoy Bahrain and have friends, and an apartment there. As a whole there is no advocation of Islamic superiority, but please correct me if I am wrong, the younger generation is not like us (I am 41, I presume you are around my age). My friend’s children have phone dates and email contact with second generation Pakistanis, who, if I am not mistaken, are more radicalized than the general populace in Bahrain. My Bahraini ‘an friends are worried about these events. If this trend does continue, there could be a detrimental effect on the whole Gulf region.

Please forgive me but, you and many others do not advocate terrorist actions, but in the same manner, neither do you (general terms) condemn nor discuss in detail a contradictory opinion to Islamic codes. Even at private parties, it is shunned. Hope you agree with my narrow opinion, but until this can be brought out and discussed openly in reasonable forums, there can be no advancement towards containment of fanatism.

Another Bill to be Free has Just Passed the House!!!

June 15, 2004

I just started LOL again when I remembered! I was in Mont Carlo sitting by the pool reading the Paper and LOL There was a new American movie Trailer playing in Spain and People started Jumping out of Windows and committing suicide The move people had to run a disclaimer before they ran the Trailer You ask what was the Movie “ Independence Day”

I’m still LOL

Part Of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS Jimmy was trying to follow me

U.S. Muslim Leader and Libyan Agent Tell of Plot to Kill Saudi Ruler
NewsMax.com Wires
Thursday, June 10, 2004
WASHINGTON – A jailed American Muslim leader and a Libyan intelligence agent have told U.S. and Saudi authorities they were involved in a Libyan plot to assassinate the ruler of Saudi Arabia, U.S. officials said Thursday.

Hg
Saw the first day and it was Braahriane that wanted one state. I think the Press once again Lies Lies
Momar is worried about his borders has bunch of people fleeing the slaughter across and is worried. These people have AIDS Momar is worried at the arab plan Bush has said nothing is off the Table I mean Noithing. Momar is a suiver and wants to stay that way why do you think he gave all that fo?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at May 27, 2004 10:46 AM

Maybe it is time to show Islam the power of the USA and her mighty MOAB's we can start small?
We are letting the fox gaurd the hen house a Muslum is in charge of looking into Irans nukes????
Now me when I go hunting I take the brid away from the dog so he don't eat it.
Part of the American Tribe
God bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at May 27, 2004 02:28 AM

Not in America will fear win.
For personal protection every American should own a firearm to fight against any attempt to conquer this land in the name of islam or any other despotic religion/government. Our second Ammendment gives us that Right; and, I believe even duty to own a gun to protect ones self, family, and property. Jihad can't win if American citizens are armed and ready for them.
This is America - Love it or Leave it.
Posted by: onesandzeroes at May 27, 2004 12:15 AM

This call has started in the USA by people like raza and mohannod and the call to prayer in Mich. outside Detroit and it was the lib dems that have allowed this to happen!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Posted by: Catherine at May 26, 2004 10:20 AM

Spreading the faith?
The SITE Institute has published excerpts of a training manual for Muslim kidnappers. The entire article is well worth reading at that site. One illuminating point is that the manual clearly sees kidnapping as an Islamic religious act, and even — astonishingly enough — as an opportunity to call people to Islam:
• Abide by Muslim laws as your actions may become a Da’wa [call to join Islam].
You may be annoyed when proselytizers knock on your door, but one thing you can say about the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and others: they aren't under any illusions that kidnapping and murder will make their faiths any more attractive to nonbelievers.
Posted at May 26, 2004 09:04 AM

Now axos once again you get it wrong!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS the Dems on the Floor in support of the Arab Oil???

Joue maria

See Sei Best way to handel things like that and your guys did great! sorry about the ele.

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Quite a day here a Jihad Watch comments.

A very strong match indeed between the two Greek pugilists, with the occasional cheap shots thrown in by muslim pigs.

Catherine: You make me hotter than Georgia asphalt in the summer. Are you a red head?
How about you Suzy B.?

I also see that we have a few new commentators from the Iberian peninsula. Sorry guys, but after that whole 3/11 thing and the way it affected the vote I refer to your country as Al Andaluz like the "moros" did.

Going back to the original thread, I just wanted to know if any of you knew why only foreigners work in the sacred cat box. What's up with the folks that are natives.

Catherine, I love you, but please, Please, PLEASE stop with the novels. Why not just post that stuff to your own site and give us a link or just link Newsmax or wherever? It will make you seem a lot smarter, ya know. :)

~NMJ

To Chan'ad:

Where in blazes ARE YOU???? You sound like a real moderate Muslim who is ready & willing to live in peace with others, regardless of their religion, race, nationality, etc.

I know there are other moderate Muslims. At my synagogue, we have recently been joined by an Iranian-Muslim woman who just converted to Judaism! She's a lovely person. Her mother and sisters all know and support her!

But changing the radicalism in the Muslim world will require moderate Muslims like yourself. The Muslim masses will never listen to Westerners, or any Christians or Jews. If you speak out on this website, you're speaking out in a safe place. Are you only endangering yourself if you share your true feelings in your environment?

How and when will moderate Muslims ever gain the upper hand?

Catherine my mother tongue is not English and I haven´t understood what the devil you said to me. Could you please say it with other words?

Katabolae are you kidding? Spain is part of Europe. No more Islam there!

oikonomakis,
If you read Chan'ad's blog, he does indeed condem what is going on by the nutters. He does so at risk to himself, because all is not completely well in Bahrain. Read some of the other blogs he links to, and you will see there is some attemps at reforms in some of these countries. It is starting because the moderate Muslims realize they could be on the hit list too.
Pulling out of the Magic Kingdom is only going to get us worse and more nutters. We have let the Saudis play both of the street for far to long, and by turning a blind eye to their abuses of their own people, we have allowed to nutters to grow in numbers. Pulling out will only get us more of the same and threaten any reforms going on in some of the other countries.

Por cierto Franze saludos, ¿dónde estás?

Jose Maria, don't feel bad, native English speakers like myself don't understand Catherine's posts either.

¡Maria de Jose
la manera Sí Sí Mejor manejar a semejanza de cosas que y sus tipos hicieron magnífico! Arrepentido acerca del ele.

La parte del Dios americano del Tribu Bendice los Estados Unidos de América y sus Fuerzas Luchadoras y Todo que Lucha con ella les da Fuerza y Coraje para permanecer el curso a la Victoria Amén

l 15 de junio de 2004

¡Acabo de comenzar LOL otra vez cuando recordé! Estaba en sentar de Mont Carlo por la piscina que lee el Papel y LOL había un jugar americano nuevo de Remolque de película en España y la Gente empezó a Saltar fuera de Ventanas y suicidio que cometen El mueve a gente tuvo que correr una denegación antes ellos corrieron el Remolque que Usted pide lo que era la Película " Día de Independencia"

Estoy LOL tranquilo

Strawberry!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

Catalina hija en tu "español" aún te entiendo menos.
De todos modos que Dios te bendiga.

H.Katabolae

Strawberry blonde, Blue eyed, smart, independant and mean as a snake.

Suzy B

susan B
oik was talking about SUsan must have got you mixed up!

Part of the American Tribe!

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight With her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

Il susan B l'oik parlava di SUsan lo deve avere preso ha mescolato su!

La parte della Tribù americana!

Dio Benedice il ed il suo Lottando e Tutto Lotta Con lei dà loro Forze e di stare il a

to M,
In my blindness, I just noticed that Chan ‘ad has a blog. I have not read it, but I did refer to the general populace and not to him personally. As a rule, it is taboo to speak about reform. Yes, more and more are beginning to come out and criticize, but it is too few in numbers and too infrequent. I am sure you are aware yesterday the head of Islamic states demanded reform in islam. He was to say the least, not very welcome.

Bahrain, UAE; Qatar, and to a degree Oman have small indigenous populations and a great immigrant workforce. This second generation “workforce” is radical to the extreme. Unless, the idea of reform can spread and be coerced into the general populace of islam (most are illiterate), then I due believe it will never adjust, and it will continue to be hijacked by fanatics.

Jose Maria,
Last saturday night I was dancing at Marmara in Madrid. I know Spain well, my sister-in-law is Spanish. My fanily has a house there. Where in Spain are you.

Catherine, good Spanish,

Susan B, I do have good legs, a little hairy, but good

jose you are wrong there!!!

Just can't type!!!

Part of the American Tribe

We dont Run!!! Like the French or the Spanish!!

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

Oikonomakis I was born in a village near Barcelona but now I am living in Jaén (Andalucía).
Are you Greek?

Catherine sorry but I cannot understand you. And we Spaniards don´t run! It has been our bastard Government who has decided to leave Irak. I feel ashamed to have betrayed USA and its allies in a fight so important against terror.
People in Europe have not understood yet the nature of the threat we are facing and I am afraid that many americans either.
I hope you brave americans and other freedom fighters will not surrender these barbarians islamofascists.

Jose Maria,
Now I am diving in Colombia. Will return to Spain to meet up with my family in August. My brother's in laws have a house in Malaga.

So, are you ready to fight the muslims, or is "the shoe" (zapata) going to give back Al-Andalush.

If the House of Saud hopes to survive, its best bet is to hurry to convert itself into a temperate, constitutional monarchy. But it sees no rush and to date it’s talked, but not acted. With the oil-installations all extremely heavily secured, the terrorist attacks in the Kingdom - so far - haven’t shaken the economy or the Government, while the rise in oil prices’ve greatly further enriched and strengthened it.

However, in Saudi Arabia (and across the dar el-Islam), millions of bored, sexually-frustrated, religiously-brainwashed, unemployed/unemployable* young men, inculcated into profound paranoia and indoctrinated into a nihilistic blood-cult, are fully convinced that they’re the victims of an immense Conspiracy, upon whose plotters they’re OBLIGATED to wreak a gruesome revenge. This wild impression’s endlessly fed to them and reinforced half-hourly through their “education”, media and milieu, and from the mosque.

It’s in this violent youth sub-culture, inter alia, that el-Qaeda’s recruiting. Osama bin-Laden seeks to take over A COUNTRY: any one would do, but Saudi Arabia (for its wealth) and Pakistan (for its nukes) are the two at the top of his list. He dreams that in Saudi Arabia, these teenagers and boys’ll be his “Holy Warriors”, to overthrow the Sauds and put him into power.

How to forestall his plans there? Alas, immediate Democracy’s can’t be the answer, since if a national election were to be held in Saudi Arabia in the near future, no doubt the Jihadis’d get the majority. (In 1933 in Germany, the Nazis were DEMOCRATICALLY voted in.) If such a negative outcome’s then countered, it could very well cause a conflict like that in Algeria, where the military were compelled to intervene after an Islamist triumph at the polls, annulling the result and kicking off a civil war that’s raged on cruelly for a decade.

*Approximately THREE-QUARTERS of all Saudi PhDs have been awarded in Islamic Studies.

I just want to say that there is different people all over the world that works for different companys that are in different countrys and they are just trying to make a living.Race shouldnt be a thing anymore we are all a life force that shouldnt be killed kidnapped or any act of that nature..And peace should be amung us all.p I hope peace comes out of the men and women of the world.

Catalina hija en tu "español" aún te entiendo menos.
De todos modos que Dios te bendiga.
Posted by josé maría at June 15, 2004 05:38 PM
Trans
Catalina daughter in your "Spanish" still I understand you less. Of all ways that God you bendiga. Posted by josé maría at June 15, 2004 05:38 PM
Pig jihaidist Chechenia is under russian control. You think that because you put bombs you control the country. Bastards. But coward jihaidist why are you losing your time with us and don´t go to Chechenya or Irak or Afganistan or better to Israel?
Don´t waste your time hundreds of girls and babies are waiting for you in paradise! you´ll be fucking forever!
Posted by josé maría at June 15, 2004 04:39 PM

Look at jose he is not who he portends to be??

Monday, June 14, 2004 11:45 p.m. EDT
Zarqawi to bin Laden: U.S. Winning in Iraq
Al-Qaida's most dangerous operative, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, has personally warned terror kingpin Osama bin Laden that his troops are under intensifying pressure from U.S. forces in Iraq and prospects for a terrorist victory look bleak.
News Max.com

Sorry CGW but I did not post all!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS jihadi and mo-ham-od
We have taken the rope off the Russians and they have a Free hand??
Posted by Catherine at June 15, 2004 06:29 PM

He does not Know the spanish for Catherine???

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Oik
Amo el jerez de crema de su área!

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to stay the course to Victory Amen

arxos said ” It (islam) has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives.”

Ever think that the reason their lives are drab and impoverished is BECAUSE of islam, not in spite of it?

“Your grandchildren will be wealthy ex-muslims.”

arxos said”… or maybe you are still waiting for your ally’s to let you march into Smyrna again and then watch from the battleships AS ALL GREEK POPULATIONS ARE SLAUGHTERED AND EXPELLED.”

No… I think it would be more fun to allow the Kurds to have their own state and let them and the Turks, sunnis, shites, and every other group in the region to go at it.

ps. As you can see from the above statement, I have read “The Prince” and other Machiavellian writings.

“Your grandchildren will be victims of the Machiavellian West.”

catherine,
no offense, but is your spanish straight from the dictionary? You like the cream sherry from my area? Portugal is better for sherry.

Personally, I fail to see what Islam has to do with "dignity" or "meaning," even with regard to the lives of illiterate Arabs.

I see nothing dignified about groveling on a rug in the dirt 5 times a day.

And "meaning"? You must be joking! Islam teaches that the individual is utterly meaningless.

U.S. Urges Americans to Exit Saudi Arabia

I think it has become very dangerous for all Westerners to live in the sacred sandbox. (I love that phrase) It probably would be a good idea to leave. Besides, we need the help in the Alberta Oilsands. Guaranteed to be jihad free!

“Your grandchildren will empty the sacred sandbox.”

Oikonomakis,
That's the point. Some of those countries are talking out loud within the country about reforms (elections, women's rights and treatment of expats) which is almost unheard of. YOU understand the fear the average guy in the street or moderate faces by speaking out, but they are still speaking out for what is right. They know the nutters are their enemy too, and that's the only way change is going to come in the area. That's what W was doing with the war in Iraq; simply forcing reform to the forefront because we have no other choice for our own security.

Samples of Arabic Newspapers of today.

If it happens in muslims countries, they cry that these people are murderers, if it happens in Iraq or western countries, they are quite or joyous.

The perverted acts and terrorist operations being carried out by deviants in this country, even if they are carried out by some sons of this nation, represent a malicious disease.

Saudi Ukaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No-one knows what is in the minds of those addicted to cold blooded murder. Their evil terrorist acts have added to the negative portrayal of Arabs and Muslims in the whole world.

Saudi al-Jazirah

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These [terrorist] organisations... are currently being pursued intensely in Saudi Arabia. It might take a long time but... defeating evil will remain a priority.

Saudi al-Riyadh

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The violence and terrorist operations that have been taking place in Saudi Arabia for days, weeks and months confirm once again that the phenomenon of terrorism is not in any way caused by Arabs and Muslims, as is being reported and promoted by a section of the international media. Stopping terrorism will not be possible unless there is widespread co-operation between the countries of the world, including the Gulf and Middle East states. The priority should be to extinguish the large fire which is consuming the whole world, and which is caused by the occupation of Iraq and Israel's aggression.

Egypt's al-Ahram

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is impossible for those whose hands have been soiled by the blood of innocents to be propagators of truth and jihad, as they claim. They are propagators of falsehood, destruction and havoc.

UAE's al-Bayan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are now seeing terrorism in a new phase, using the media in terrorist crimes in Saudi Arabia... Kidnapping hundreds or killing thousands of people will not defeat a regime and the terrorists know it very well. But they want to make terrorism's effects deep and difficult to overcome.

London-based al-Sharq al-Awsat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Security measures might bring some successes, but this can only be limited as the problem has political, economic and social aspects.

London-based al-Quds al-Arabi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These days al-Qaeda is concentrating its operations in Saudi Arabia... with the aim of chasing out all the "infidels" from the kingdom. Their actions are actually an obvious invitation to the "infidels" to come and intervene under the pretext of protecting their oil supplies. Is this possible intervention another fishy concurrence between al-Qaeda and the extremist neo-conservatives in the Bush Administration?

Jordan's al-Dustur

Jose Maria:

Do not feel ashamed of what happen there in Spain. Most Americans have been given the news as to how the Spanish troops where embarrassed to have been told to come back home sooner than they would have.

Zapatero , the Socialist that he is, may still begin to see the writing on the wall when it comes to the Islamofacist movement that is being driven by the authoritarian dictators of Iran, Syria, and Saudia Arabia.

Hey lobo, it's not a sacred sandbox, it's a sacred kitty litter box!

You like the cream sherry from my area? Portugal is better for sherry.

Posted by oikonomakis at June 15, 2004 07:06 PM

oik
Never had it from Portugal Would like to try it Becareful there are many wolfs out!!

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Gary ~ Repeat After Me: "We Will Invade Antarctica For Oil but not intersect in another nonsense war with Muslims."

Did you hear About the Floods in Russia well guess they won't have the grains to feed the Muslums either

Oh! My!

Oh No!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA an her Fighting Forces an All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS can you say can you eat oil???

PSS Short skirts and hunt-ing dogs Yea Baby!!

Fezê-lo ouvir Sobre as Inundações em Rússia bem adivinham eles nao terão os grãos alimentar o Muslums qualquer um

Fezê-lo ouvir Sobre as Inundações em Rússia bem adivinham eles nao terão os grãos alimentar o Muslums qualquer um

Ó! Meu!

Ó Não!

A parte do Deus Americano de Tribo Abençoa o Estados Unidos uma seua Luta Força um Todo quem Luta com ela dar lhes Força e Coragem de permanecer o curso a Amém de Vitória

PS você pode dizer lata você come óleo???

PSS saias Curtas e Bebê de voto a favor de cachorros de caça-ing!

Sentire lei delle Inondazioni in Russia bene supposizione non avranno che i grani per nutrire il Muslums sia

Oh! Mio!

Oh No!

La parte del Dio di Tribù americano Benedice lo Stati Uniti una la sua Lotta Forza un Tutta il che Lotta con gli dà la Forza ed il Coraggio per stare il corso a amen di Vittoria

P lei può dire la lattina lei mangia l'olio???

PSS i cani di di gonne e caccia-ing Bimbo di voto favorevole di Breve!

Posted by Catherine at June 15, 2004 08:35 PM

Sie errät Um die Fluten in Russland gut machte hören, daß sie das Getreide zuzuführen den Muslums nicht haben werden, entweder Ach! Meines! Ach Nein!

Teil des Amerikanischen Stamms Gottes Segnen Sie die Vereinigten Staaten, die ein ihr Kämpfen ein Alle Zwingt, die mit ihr Kämpfen, geben ihnen Kraft und Mut, der Kursus zu Sieg amen zu bleiben

PS, den Sie sagen können, daß Dose, die Sie Öl ißt???

PSS Kurze Röcke und Jagd-Ing Hunde Jastimme Baby!

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

Mahmoud~ Please don't convert the penquins before we get there. The fighting could be horrific.... as compared to the guys under Sadr who are running from Fallujha (sp).

Gary

LOL

Part of the American Tribe

Gary
Think mo-ham-od is worried that their donkeys and camles cant get there to cold! how can they mess up our oil feilds???

and then the Arabs cant get their dimmi tax to feed their people ?

Oh My??

Floods in Russia ?? Guess they have no grain to feed the Arabs??

Death to dimmie Tax??? Starve you muslums!!!

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amem

Gary:
Think About It....Since The US does not recognize the claims of others in Antarctic Treaty, This Invasion will be very cheaper than attacking Syria and Jordan and you don't need to bribe Germany or France in UN for backing you up.

After spending a disastrous One and Half year in Iraqi Deserts under the temperature of 121 ºF, A Trip to South Pole will also regain the delicate and shaky soldiers' moral. There are plans for making Iglo-Formed Abu-Ghraibs and an Icy Statue of Liberator Bush is already on his way....

My brother is in the military. He had to go to Saudi Arabia for about 30 days. He has made it home safely and hopefully he doesn't have to go back overseas. Well, I just wanted to give my thanks to God. God bless.

Zarqawi to bin Laden: U.S. Winning in Iraq
Al-Qaida's most dangerous operative, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, has personally warned terror kingpin Osama bin Laden that his troops are under intensifying pressure from U.S. forces in Iraq and prospects for a terrorist victory look bleak.
A purported letter from Zarqawi to bin Laden, posted to Islamic Web sites Monday night, complains that al-Qaida fighters in Iraq are being "squeezed" by U.S.-led coalition forces, the Associated Press said.
"The space of movement is starting to get smaller," Zarqawi warned. "The [U.S.] grip is starting to be tightened on the holy warriors' necks and, with the spread of soldiers and police, the future is becoming frightening."

WE ARE KICKING THEIR ASS !!

For all you sissy babys there will be a tommrow!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS mo-ham-od was it water or sand!!! LOL

This time it sounds serious. I hope the Saudis are ready to step up to the plate. I feel they don't want us in the way (pussy foot'n around) when they finally decide to clean house. It'll be Arab vs Arab and there will be no turning back.

Of course that's just me and I could be wrong.

A number of posts here express a desire for the US (and other foreigners) to get out of Saudi Arabia and let it's economy collapse. In the long run that's an excellent idea. The problem is that right now the world needs Saudi oil or the *world's* economies will collapse.

That's the real point of the repeated, and increasingly frequent, attacks on foreigners. The Mohammaden death cult is getting the worst of it in Afghanistan and Iraq, so they are shifting their focus to other areas. Attacks in Arabia look, to them, like a tails I win-heads you lose scenario:

1. If they can significantly reduce the supply of Saudi oil, by reducing production or raising prices (same effect in the end)they put pressure on the West to back off. Think of it as the "Madrid Railway Effect" without fireworks.

2. If possible, they would like to seize power from the "moderate" rulers, and put it firmly in the hands of royal family members who are strongly sympathetic to jihad. That would strengthen them immensely, and a Western invasion to protect the oil is unlikely becuz as long as the oil still flows, and the proxy rulers have Saud family faces and say reassuring things to us, there will not be enough political will to support an invasion.

3. Even if the West does react by invading Arabia, Al-Qaeda & Co. wins again becuz the entire Mohammaden world erupts in rage at the sight of "infidel" troops occupying the holy sand-box.

Of course, the whole thing could fizzle out, or even backfire, in which case the bad guys lose really, really big.

The Other Dave said, “Even if the West does react by invading Arabia, Al-Qaeda & Co. wins again becuz the entire Mohammaden world erupts in rage at the sight of "infidel" troops occupying the holy sand-box.”

I say we take Mecca and Medina, put up some McDonalds, lots of good pubs and turn the place into a Vegas- like tourist attraction.

“Your grandchildren will be assistant managers at a local Mickey-Ds.”

other dave
That is the key world the USA will be fine for 6mo.s the Key is the world that has stabed the USA in the Back! How do you think Americans think about that? We will be alright we have plenty of Grain to feed our cars untill we drill for some oil we already Know where it is!

Our gradparents went through worse in WW2 and look at how thisgs turned out!

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the US and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS the other Dave Buy a Gun and Ammo that will help! Your peice of mind !

The US can afford to let the Saudi's swing as we get only about 10% of our oil from SA it's the Europeans who need to worry. That's why it was important to topple Saddam as we now essentially control Iraq which has the worlds second largest oil reserves. As usual the jihadi's failed to think ahead. The expertise to run the oil industry in SA comes from westerners as do the spare parts that will be needed to keep the industry going.You don't really think the US will give jihadists either technical support or spare parts do you? Without those the oil industry in SA will grind to a halt, that will result in the cash needed to fund jihad also drying up.

Catherine, you have posted some absolutely excellent posts today!! Your arguments are so right on! I just love it when I agree with you so wholeheartedly, so ROCK On, my Princess!!!

José Maria, soy de Valencia
The situation in Spain isn´t none well, I can tell you a story in spanish:
It was from Toledo
Mirad que asimilables son:
No estoy muy seguro de que deba opinar en estos momentos, pues no tengo las ideas claras, así que prefiero contar lo que me ha pasado con un cierto detenimiento.

Este año me he encargado de los grupos de Compensatoria, que son los que están constituidos principalmente por inmigrantes, la mayoría de ellos marroquíes. Son chavales de entre 14 y 18 años, y desde que empezó el tema de las torturas no paran de hablar de ello como si les hubieran torturado a ellos mismos.

Cierto día hice mención de la decapitación de Nick Berg, y les pregunté que opinón tenían con respecto a eso. Me contestaron que de eso no sabían nada. Cuando les dije lo que había pasado, prácticamente me arrastraron hasta el aula de informática: querían verlo a toda costa.

He tenido la desgracia de haber visto ese vídeo ENTERO, Y PENSÉ QUE NO ERA UNA BUENA IDEA HACÉRSELO VER, DE NINGÚN MODO. Otro compañero estaba en ese mometo en el aula de informática, y tomó la decisión de mostrárselo íntegro, para hacerles ver, según él, que no está justificado el terror ni el crimen en ninguna de las dos partes. No supe reaccionar a tiempo.

Lo que he tenido que presenciar (y ahora no hablo de ese terrorífico vídeo) me ha dejado los pelos de punta: a medida que avanza la secuencia, y teniedo en cuenta que los chavales entendían perfectamente el discurso previo que iba leyedo el terrorista, cada vez se les veía más exaltados, hasta llegar al momento de la decapitación, en el que TODOS ELLOS comezaron a corear "Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar", a coro con los terroristas en el vídeo, finalizando con un aplauso en la secuencia final.

Estoy completamente desolado. He podido constatar en directo y en vivo que las afirrmaciones que últimamente viene realizando César Vidal son terriblemente ciertas: no se trata de Al Quaeda, se trata del Islam mismo. Nunca hasta hoy había llegado a aceptar la teoría del choque de civilizaciones, ni había podido admitir que se tratara por igual a todos los musulmanes como si fueran terroristas.

Pero esta experiencia ha sido un shock: las cosas no son ni mucho menos lo que nos creemos o lo que nos están intentando hacer ver: el mundo está viviendo una etapa mucho más terrible de lo que nos creemos, y esto es sólo el comienzo, el futuro sólo muestra negrísimos nubarrones.

Con esto no tomo ninguna postura con relación a las torturas, la dimisión de Rumsfeld o lo que sea: simplemente hoy me resultan temas completamente anecdóticos al lado de lo que he tenido que presenciar en vivo delante de mis ojos.

Me confieso con vosotros: REALMENTE ESTOY EMPEZANDO A TENER MIEDO, aunque ese miedo nunca será obstáculo para hacer lo único que hoy puedo hacer: alzar mis ojos hacia la Cruz y no despegarlos de allí en ningún momento de lo que me quede de vida, y actuar en consecuencia. De no hacerlo así, el terror y el odio me devorarán vivo, como a cualquiera de nosotros.
If someone want to translate the history. This a history of people from Morocco in my country. Greetings

Franze

"The problem is that right now the world needs Saudi oil or the *world's* economies will collapse.
That's the real point of the repeated, and increasingly frequent, attacks on foreigners."
Posted by The Other Dave at June 15, 2004 11:14 PM

I beg to differ there, Dave.
The 'real point' of the repeated attacks on westerners in Saudi, is because Mohammed commanded them 1400 yrs ago.

Hadith, Sunan Abi Dawood - 3003
""Know that the land (Arabian Peninsula) is for Allah and his Messenger, and I want to exile you from this land. So let him he who finds something valuable in his possession sell it; or know that the land is for Allah and his Messenger."

Hadith, Saheeh Muslim - 1767
Narrated Omar bin Al-Khattab:
"He [Omar] heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) saying,
'O I indeed will exile the Jews and the Christians from the Arabian Peninsula until I leave no one but a Muslim.'"

Regards,
kc

KC,

I don't doubt there is a religious motive to the attacks in Saudi Arabia, like you, I'm quite aware that there is. But in Islam military, political, and religious activities are fused into a seamless whole. My post was limited to exploring the military-political motives that may be in play.

Catherine,
Sometimes I just like to sit back with a spliff and read all of your posts, today I'm having a field day. You light up my life sweet-baby!! I just love how truely nutty you are, keep it up!!

Non-muslims everywhere we are winning the battle but we could lose the war. The muslims could win by out-numbering us all. We need to start breeding like jack-rabbits , might as well have some fun while at war with the human-pig hybrids that are the muslims.

For those learned in history, who can tell us the religion of Gavrilo Princip, the young Serb who killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand and began WWI?

"For those learned in history, who can tell us the religion of Gavrilo Princip, the young Serb who killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand and began WWI?"

Umm, Jewish, right?

/sarcasm off

Other Dave,

I think that you meant to say:

"...in Islam military, political, and religious activities are fused into a seamless hole."

Right? ;)

Franze, Welcome

My writing in Spanish is not very good so I will not even attempt it. The story that you told is similar in aspects too many peoples' experience (including my own). That is why people do no longer believe in this religion of piece propaganda. Don't hate, Pity the people who will destroy themselves by their own-blinded arrogance.

Foehammer,

It will take me a while to translate, something like 180 pages in total. When I complete the translations I will make sure that I post the website here. I wonder if they can sue me for copyright infringement. BTW the name of that site was "The Jihad Site".

Franze tú eres un occidental que has tenido la suerte de ver por tus ojos la verdad. Occidente oculta que el problema es el Islam pero tarde o temprano la realidad pondrá las cosas en su sitio. Con Hitler por miedo se intentaron todo tipo de compromisos hasta que la guerra se hizo inevitable.
No tengas miedo es mejor que cuanto antes acabemos con el problema. Si me has leído sabrás que yo estoy por la destrucción del islam.

Franze tú eres un occidental que has tenido la suerte de ver por tus ojos la verdad. Occidente oculta que el problema es el Islam pero tarde o temprano la realidad pondrá las cosas en su sitio. Con Hitler por miedo se intentaron todo tipo de compromisos hasta que la guerra se hizo inevitable.
No tengas miedo es mejor que cuanto antes acabemos con el problema. Si me has leído sabrás que yo estoy por la destrucción del islam.

Posted by josé maría at June 16, 2004 01:28 PM

TrANS

Franze you are a westerner that have had the luck to see for your eyes the truth. West hidden that the problem is the Islam but late or early the reality will put the things in its place. With Hitler by fear they tried all kinds of commitments until the war was done inevitable. Do not be afraid is better than as soon as possible put an end to the problem. If you have me read will know that I am for the destruction of the Islam.

Posted by josé maría at June 16, 2004 01:28 PM

This guy hates me and Frans is in Spain and is living in Fear!! and can't stand looking at crosses and womens leggs????

Part of the American Tribe

God Bless the Usa and her aFighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them strength and courage to stay the course to Victory Amen

PS and All by a woman in a short skirt!!

¡Catherine estás como una cabra!

The story related by Franze above in Spanish is certainly one that should be translated. Jose Maria? Essentially, it is the story of how some young Moroccan immigrants, who had not heard the story of the beheading of Nicholas Berg, were told the story, and then rushed to see the video of it, apparently an absolutely terrifying and horrifying spectacle, and watched it with great interest. At the moment of decapitation, they chanted in unison with the videoed murderers: Allahu Akbar! Their reaction was one of complete identification with the act. This came as a shock to Franze, who offers this tale from his own life as an example of what he is beginning to realize: the problem is not a "handful of exremists" but rather Islam itself, and many many many Musims, whom he would hardly have believed himself could so identify with the worst atrocities -- but clearly, in his own immediate experience, they did so.

It is as if someone in the 1930s saw footage of Kristallnacht, let us say, in the presence of German immigrants living abroad, in Buenos Aires or Yorkville, and all of a sudden those people, whom one assumed immune to Hitler's siren-song, began to cheer, and sing the Horst Wessel, and give the Heil Hitler with feeling.

Yes, an important story. And many people have similar stories -- the telling anecdote, from life, the cArabs on 9/11 in a room at the Massachusetts General, overheard and then seen cheering by a horrified nurse, who reported the incident (but it was all hushed up -- too many well-paying Arab clients of the Mass General to let a little thing like that get out), or the incident a friend of mine witnessed at one of those phony Muslim-Jewish diagogues, where the speaker ignored all evidence of antisemitic acts by Muslims and instead made a blatant appeal for Jewish support to protect Muslims who were, he insisted, "the new Jews." Everyone will have his own story, or stories to tell (I myself have witnessed, at one of those ostentiously American flag-bedecked Arab-owned gas stations, people watching a small, grease-begrimed television -- unaware that I had entered the station to ask for directions -- and cheering at the sight of some burned-out Humveees and American corpses somewhee in Iraq. Needless to say, I buy my gasoline elsewhere, and urge others to do the same).

Pues sí Jose María, Catherine está un poco... Resumiendo, si una cruz no te gusta, no la mires, otra cosa es que considere que todos somos guerrilleros de Cristo Rey...

Hugh you have done a very good translation, at least the idea is very well expressed. Anyway if you think that it should be translated fully in English just ask for it and I will do.

Jose Maria -- yes, I think you should do it, and post it here. I would do it myself, except that my Spanish is as rusty as the nails on the door, or as creaky as that same door, that led to the hall that led to the room I shared with a Catalan (I only remember one of his sentences: "Los chics me fan burla") student in a colegio mayor I lived in, in Arguelles, for several months many years ago, and where, with the country still under Franco, I would ask for stamps at the Central Post Office -- Queria franquear sin Franco -- in a way that always attracted a certain amount of attention, not all of it friendly.

Don't worry everyone, we here in America are very well armed and I am chomping at the bit to Kill every moslem in MY country. I can't wait. This will be so much fun. Tiny little Israel kicked their collective ass and we can do so much more. They are so easy to spot. Like shooting ducks in a barrel.
Yeeehaaaa!!!!

Rikki, are you married? What is your age?

Jose Maria,

Gracias a usted...I know so many people from Spain, such a beautiful country, such kind, generous, and loving people. I completely understood when millions went to the streets after the Madrid bombing to march for peace; I knew many of them. But, I am afraid that the horrifying truth about radical Islam and Jihad that confronts Spain (and the whole world) are so foreign to the Spanish people that they cannot even imagine the reality of it.

It is time for Spain and for all of us to wake up and educate ourselves about the horrors we face. And we must prepare ourselves for a very difficult time ahead. Thank you very much for your story.

En memoria de todos los muertos en Madrid....

Muchas Gracias....JTF

KAMA,
I'm 24 and unmarried(thank god), give me your email address we'll talk proper!

OK Hugh I translate the testimony of Franze:

"These year I have been in charge of Compensatory´s groups, which are mainly formed by immigrants, most of them Moroccans. They are teens between 14 and 18 years old, and since began the news about tortures they don´t stop talking about it as though they themselves had been tortured.

Some day I mentioned Nick Berg´s beheading, and I asked them what was their view about that. They answered that they knew nothing about it. When I told them what had happened,almost pulled me to the programming classroom: they wanted to see it eagerly.

I have had the misfortune of seen this video FULLY, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS NOT AT ALL A GOOD IDEA THEY SEE IT. Another fellow was also in the classroom, and decided to show them the full video, to make them realize,according to him, that neither terror nor crime was not justified in any side. I didný kow how to react in time.

What I had to witness (and now I am not talking about that frightening video) has shocked me: as the video is playing, and taking into account that the boys understood perfectly well the previous speech that the terrorist was reading, they were increasingly exalted, until the beheading, when ALL OF THEM started to say all together "Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar", with the terrorists shown in the video, ending with an applause at the end.

I am completely in grieve. I have lived that the assertions that recently César Vidal is stating are terribly true: it is not Al Quaeda, it is Islam. Until now I had not accepted neither the clash of civilizations, nor that all moslems were traeted like terrorists.

But this experience has been a shock: things are not what we believe or what they try us to see: the world is living a period much more terrible than we believe, and this is only the beginning, the future only showw dark clouds... "

Well I think it is enough. Sorry for the mistakes in my translation.

gracias, jose.

Thank you. Now I must go look up Cesar Vidal.

josé maría

So you are into animals huh!

Oh My I eat goat!
You commy who loves terrorist!

Catherine estás como una cabra!

Posted by josé maría at June 16, 2004 02:52 PM

Trans

Catherine you are like a goat!

Again you do not know the spanish name for Catherine

Oh! My!

Wiskey for my men Beer for my horses!!!

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen