At the time of the transfer of sovereignty, I said here that that transfer would change nothing: the mujahedin, the warriors of jihad, would still labor to transform Iraq into an Islamic state. From the Sydney Morning Herald, with thanks to Nicolei:
Gunmen assassinated a senior Iraqi Interior Ministry official and two of his bodyguards in Baghdad yesterday, a ministry source said.Mussab al-Awadi was reported to have been killed along with two of his bodyguards as he left his house in the capital.
Earlier three people, including a child, were killed and seven others wounded in a suicide bombing outside the main US military base in the northern city of Mosul, the US military said....
Also yesterday, militants calling themselves the Mujahideen Corps kidnapped two Jordanian drivers and threatened to execute them in 72 hours unless their Jordanian company stopped doing business with the US military, Associated Press reported. It follows an announcement by a group holding seven other foreigners that it had extended the deadline for talks and repeated a demand for their Kuwaiti employer to leave.
The hostages - three Indians, three Kenyans and an Egyptian, all truck drivers for a Kuwaiti firm - were seized last week by a little-known group calling itself the Black Banners brigade of the Islamic Secret Army. The brigade said it had decided to extend the deadline in response to an appeal from Sheik Hisham al-Dulami, the head of what he calls the Detainees Association.
The firm, the Kuwait and Gulf Link Transport Company, said on Sunday it had received assurances the captives would be freed.
An Iraqi group, the Islamic Army, said in a video aired on Al-Jazeera television that it had kidnapped two Pakistanis working for US forces and an Iraqi contract driver. It said it had sentenced the Pakistanis to death.
Can anyone tell me whats going to be done to replace these "officials" that keep getting wasted?Do they just keep plucking volenteers up off the streets of Baghdad?It can't be a very attractive job prospect.
Also what nationality are all of these poor bodygaurds that keep getting capped off, I hope the coalition's military aren't wasting more of their troops on this.Let the Iraqis deal with this now , we've done our bit, we did what we said we were going to do, took down Saddams regime, we can't force them to be peaceful , so get our boys and girls out of there NOW!!!
And the killings go on...One has to wonder if it is possible to establish a democracy in the Middle
East?? Peronally don't believe Islam and Democracy
are compatible. Minds are in a different headset
based on offerings of 'fragrant blood' to Allah,brutal dictatorships and the bloody Koran
as guide to everyday living. That's the way they have lived for 1,400 yrs and sorry everyone, don't think our efforts to change them will succeed.Apart from the Kurds, they hate us .
Morgane and Rikki
You are both welcome at http://forums.delphiforums.com/western1
Robert,
You're right, the transfer of sovereignty changes nothing for the jihadists, but it changes a lot for the Iraqi people. This is a war fought on the level of perceptions as well as realities, and as such, the Iraqi people (Muslims) are being forced to take sides. They're saying loud and clear, "We don't want to be governed by these jerks - we want to violence to end - we want Syria and Iran to butt out - and we WANT TO DETERMINE OUR OWN DESTINY." In other words, they want democracy.
I, for one, have been very pleasantly surprised by their overall good sense.
Of course, it could go south anytime, but for now I feel cautiously optimistic.
Islam seems to be a fear-based theology, so different from Judeo-Christian teaching, where throughout the Bible, "Fear not!", "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind"; Faith rises above fear. Also, truth is rewarded, lies are not, unlike Islam.
As long as Islam is the foundation of Iraq's collective thought life, we will see FEAR win.
How can a Thomas Paine or Samuel Adams rise from such a place?
Islam seems to be a fear-based theology, so different from Judeo-Christian teaching, where throughout the Bible, "Fear not!", "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind"; Faith rises above fear. Also, truth is rewarded, lies are not, unlike Islam.
posted by Daughter of Patriots
Yeah maybe a perfect interpretation of the word islam in english would be Allahphobia or even Westaphobia.
Voltaire ,
I say again, I've signed up for your forum and it won't let me login. When I tried it said my password was invalid.
Since Muslims love to think that they are descendants of Ishmael here is a telling section of Bible scripture about him and his future it found in Geneis 12:12.."Ishmael' was to be a zebra of a man....his hand would be against everyone and everyones hand will be against him"
Pretty much sums them up.
Thinking that what we did in Iraq, when we removed Saddam, was going to cause a miraculous change in the hearts and minds of the people was a mistake..
We did what was needed and now we need to get out of there and let the chips fall where they may.
Perhaps they will fall back into having a Taliban like Government or a Dictator...We can cross that bridge when we get to it.
Right now there are other fires to be put out...in Iran and North Korea not to mention Pakistan and India...
You can not change a countries religion/politics, but you can insure they do not have Nuclear weapons/WMD to force it on others!
I do not know where I heard it but, it is true...America can be a fireman to the World but NOT a Policemen.
Beloved British friends:
You owe it to yourselves to pop over to Dhimmi Watch and check out Reza's coment on the July 26 "Archbishop of Canterbury ..." thread. Everyone is entitled to a good fit of hilarious laughter at least once a day!
we can't force them to be peaceful , so get our boys and girls out of there NOW!!!
Posted by: Rikki at July 27, 2004 07:28 AM
This showes that you are not an American You don't believe in finishing the Job!!
This is why American women are for the most part happy because our men finish the Job!!!
Love those cowboys!! Cause they wear Sh-t-kickers!!
Riki had to do it! You are starting to sound like a wimp! ??
July 27, 2004
Thought of the Day! Word association Jimmy Carter [ N.Korea ], Bill Clinton [ Sandy Berger ] , Al Gore [ Sore Loser ]
UBL is YELLOW HAVE NOT SEEN HIM SEEN HIM SINCE TORA-BORA???
We in the USA are tired of Wimps?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] Amen
PS
God Bless the country who has Heros and pitty the country who needs them!
Get the MOABs on the planes boys the Iranis just tore off the tape of their nuke plants so fox is reporting?
The people of Iran had better get with it if they want to over throw their government we will not wait for ever we will do what is right for America to kill a few to save the many yes this is our way?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] Amen
PS
God Bless the Country who has Heros, Pitty the country who needs them?
What cowards and liars these Muslim zealots be.
In the Sudan they kill the black population ruthlessly rape and kill women and children and curse the “Crusaders” when they seek to help the innocents.
In the rest of the world, they sow the plague and pestilence of their hateful beliefs.
Logic and the Rule of Law are lost on these fools and reasonableness is something that does not exist in their bastardized cult. Their word is meaningless and honour beyond their comprehension.
Their mindless deference to a debased belief defies comprehension by anyone with an ounce of intelligence.
Funded by the oil revenues that provide a fortune they have not earned, they seek to bring the rest of the planet back to the stone-age with their blind allegiance to their despicable Allah and the fraud Mohammed.
Do not hate Islam, loathe it, treat it with the contempt it deserves and do not be blinded by the lie that it is a religion of peace - it is a cult of death and is totally undeserving of our tolerance or indulgence.
Toro
Catherine,
I think you've misunderstood me!!!
I just want our troops out of Iraq so the Iraqis can annihilate each other, what else can we do for them now , they obviously don't want a democracy, so fuck 'em let 'em wipe each other out. Thats a few muslims less for us to worry about. By now we should be blasting ten bails of shit out of Iran, taking down a regime that really deserves it, and if you think thats wimpy then you need your head looking at , Iran are going to be a hell of a lot harder to ass-whup than the iraqis.
Staying in iraq now ain't gonna make 1 iota of difference , I'm all about moving on and taking down the next wave of rivals.
Catherine,
As for "finishing the job" I'd say that the job is done in a fashion, we've got Saddam , we've toppled his piss-ant army. No-one ever said part of the job was nursing Iraq back to health and giving them OUR money.
Although another "part of the job" was to seek and destroy Iraqs WOMDs, and have we?No!Have any been found?No. So tell me Cath, what exactly needs to be finished now?
I'll tell you what needs finishing - "THE WAR ON TERROR" that Bush was so hell bent on seeing through after 9-11. Well lingering about in Iraq like sitting ducks while the country tears itself apart once again is not what I call fighting a war on terror. Getting stuck into the rest of the countries of terrorist scum is(Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan ,Chechnya, Sudan, Indonesia, Korea, Jordan , Syria and Egypt )!!! There is stilla lot of enemies to vanquish before this war is over.
Rikki
You have not been keeping up on current events?
They do want Freedom and a good life there are other mulsums who are sending in killers and they are tring to throw a stick in the wheele ?
When on the trail ride of the expansion of the west when the Indians attacked the trail boss did not run away and leave the wagon train because the had made it ? to where?
Saddam brought in 30,000 terrorist and they cut the heads of the Iraqi people too? there are truths that you do not hear of on the news the attacks on the Iraqi people? They need our help?
When there is a ship at sea in trouble do we send in the Coast Gard yes because we vaule life? We do not say well they should not have gone fishing?
It is easy for you to make the judgements while you sit in your chair safe?
The thing is I do understand you! You want to run away and this is how this crap started we ran away in Lebonon this is time to take a stand like WW2 the threat is real to the whole world and running away from the people who have the best chance to have FREEDOM is not the Answer that is what Clinton did and we got 2 towers missing in NYC?
When things get hard we don't run like girli men we stand and fight!!
War is never easy and the PR mac. the Arabs have is big but not real look at the meida mac. against Israel and do they give up NO.
Get some balls!!! and a killer dog!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight wiht her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] Amen
Remember a gun in hand is better than 2 cops on the phone!!!
Look at Lance did he give up Hell no 6^ wins even with cancer!!! Yea American
Rikki
we the USA went in to Iraq because saddam was working with terrorist and we were not going to wait for the smoking gun?
As far as the WMDs again you have not been keep-ing up on currents events?
Radioactive Missiles Found In Iraq
Charles R. Smith
Tuesday, Mar. 9, 2004
U.S. Army troops operating at a former Iraqi air base recently made a startling discovery: Russian made missiles marked with radioactive warning signs.
Army bomb disposal troops confirmed using Geiger counters that the missiles are indeed radioactive.
The discovery is not, however, considered the long sought after "smoking gun" of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.
The missiles appear to be part of a cache of weapons supplied to Iraq before the 1991 Gulf war.
The Russian made R-60, NATO code name AA-8 Aphid, air-to-air missiles are part of a huge stockpile of former Iraqi Air Force munitions uncovered in over a dozen concrete bunkers.
The Russian made missiles are over 6 feet long and each carries 1.6 kilograms or about 3.5 pounds of radioactive uranium wrapped around a high explosive warhead.
The uranium is not pure enough nor in large enough quantity to be a nuclear warhead but it is dangerous enough, as you can see from the label:
U.S. bomb experts noted the R-60 warheads are similar in design and content to a so-called "dirty bomb" that could contaminate a small area with radioactive materials.
DIFFICULT DISPOSAL
The discovery of the uranium laced R-60 missiles illustrates the difficulty that coalition troops have in trying to dispose of the billons of dollars of Iraqi weapons left behind after the second Gulf war.
The R-60 missiles cannot simply be destroyed since the uranium-laced warheads could pose a health hazard to coalition troops and local Iraqi civilians.
quarantined them at a single, heavily guarded, location.
The R-60 has a very small 6-kilogram (13.2 pound) explosive warhead. The R-60 missiles supplied to Iraq by Russia contained uranium in their warheads to assist the small explosive charge in destroying Army bomb disposal experts have gathered up all the R-60 missiles found at the site and targeted aircraft.
Russian weapons designers added the uranium belt to the missile in order to knock-out western aircraft using the dense metal as a way to punch through heavily armored sections of U.S. made jets.
U.S. troops also found a small number of advanced R-60M warheads at the site. The R-60M missiles are equipped with an advanced laser destruct system that detonates the warhead when it passes close to a target aircraft.
MORE RUSSIAN MISSILES
In addition, U.S. troops uncovered several large air-to-surface Kh-28 missiles, NATO code named AS-9 Kyle.
The Kh-28 is a Russian-made, anti-radar, air-to-surface missile with a top speed of over 2,000 miles an hour.
The missile is approximately 19.5 feet long, 17 inches in diameter, has a wingspan of 5.5 feet and weighs over 1,500 pounds. It carries a conventional 340-pound high-explosive warhead and has a range of 54 miles.
U.S weapons experts are also handling the Kh-28 missiles carefully but not because of its electronic radar-seeking warhead.
The Kh-28 is powered by a liquid-propellant propulsion system that consists of a fuel tank and an oxidizer tank. The oxidizer is a dangerous chemical known as "red fuming nitric acid" or IRFNA. Each missile carries approximately 20 gallons of IRFNA.
The oxidizer is considered to be highly dangerous and a possible carcinogen. U.S. Air Force disposal squads dismantled a Kh-28 found after the 1991 Gulf war using full Hazmat suits and special anti-chemical gear.
Again, U.S. forces are taking great care in the disposal of the missiles for fear of exposing coalition troops and local civilians to hazardous chemicals such as the oxidizer found in the Kh-28 missiles.
Now you are much closer and we know that a lot of Drugs make it into you country and this is just a sample of what we have found? shall I go on or you starting to show your true colors just another lib Wimp?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give her Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS
We can keep these nuts off our shores and our people have guns?
What about England?
An American pupet and spy was killed by israeli secret agents to disrupt the situation in Iraq as it's planned. This is absoloutly certain who are active in Iraq and why.
Stop your aggression and don't make Almighty Allah (swt) more angry becuase his Holy Sword has no sound but if it strikes, you will not have an answer for it.
Posted by: Mahmoud at July 27, 2004 11:33 AM
Keep your sword we got guns and I take the Guns any day!!!
Why do you send people to kill the Iraqi People the mulsum children want to live in FREEDOM you are against God?
What of the Earthquakes in all the Mulsum lands? You follow men who are YELLOW !!!
YES even Sader is now on the side of killing the terrorist that follow UBL and saddam!!!
YES you are LOSING
You are a follower of men who are YELLOW that makes you the wimp that thay are/
YES WE SEE ARAFATS HANDS AND THEY ARE YElLoW AND WHY DOES NO ONE SEE UBL NO PICTURES SINCE TORA-BORA BECAUSE HE IS YELLOW????
This is your curse you follow and support men who are YELLOW
Part of the American Tribe
What was Berger stuffing in his pants?
July 27, 2004
Thought of the Day! Word association Jimmy Carter [ N.Korea ], Bill Clinton [ Sandy Berger ] , Al Gore [ Sore Loser ]
UBL is YELLOW HAVE NOT SEEN HIM SEEN HIM SINCE TORA-BORA???
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdon ,SRength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Twinkie, your lack of grasp on the English language is astounding. Since you're an Islamic puppet, one would think you'd know how to spell it. You're going to make a fine Christian or Jew one day, as soon as we can make you a part of the literate crowd.
Rikki, and anyone else who can't get in.
Just go in as a guest, if it won't let you in. Please keep trying, and I'm sure that it will eventually let you in. I had to put numbers after my name, so I put Voltaire 123, rather than just Voltaire. Maybe that will work.
Mahmoud claimed "An American pupet and spy was killed by israeli secret agents to disrupt the situation in Iraq as it's planned."
Freaking hell you say! What was Lambchop doing in Iraq!? Shari would be real upset to hear this.
Pupet? Is that anything like pupik? Huh, Mahmoudster?
MAHMOUD
At the risk of being rude
You ignorant Muzzie dude
Talking lots of Shit
Crawl back under your Rock
And worship it...
Swit,Swot,Swat
Get rid of Pesky Muzzies
Yabber Dabber Do!
Mahmoud:
I would love to hear your logic about an Israeli secret agent killing an American puppet.
daughter of patriots said, “How can a Thomas Paine or Samuel Adams rise from such a place?”
It will more likely be a Hitler or a Stalin, Saddam’s personal hero. I don’t believe a western style democracy can be setup in Iraq. I do think a republic along the lines of what Niccolo Machiavelli wrote about in his book ‘The Discourses’. A republic with a ruling middle class sharing the power, but not a one man, one vote deal. I am sure there would be extra complications with the different sects and ethnic groups, but, something has to be done.
“Your grandchildren will be builders of nations.”
The Koran teaches that the world is flat!
What does that tell you?
there will be tribal warfare in Iraq once the U.S. leaves. There will be more bloodshed on the streets than in 1000 years once we leave Iraq. And all these European countries will be crying,"why don't you do something your the U.S." or they will say-"look what you have created"-but what were we supposed to do-the world was at a threat-Saddam was a madman- if we let him be he would have probably blown up Isreal. But we came and freed the Iraqi's, now they are killing us and it is a calling ground for Islamic terrorists. Somebody had to do it. They would have bombed the WTC if Gore was president. And if Kerry is president you think anything will change. Maybe we will withdraw and then Iraq will be like Afghanistan was and ruled by Talibanesque mercenaries. And then we will have to deal with this shit again. When the next attacks come, which will be worse than the first one. How do you fight an infection that will kill your whole body----cut off the limb----Fuck the world-there is only one solution and it is not setting up a democracy or withdrawing
Catherine ,
Will you please read my comments properly before you say something back, I can't have a proper discussion or argument with you unless you actually read and understand what I am saying, I don't talk gibberish and my comments are simple enough to understand, but you are just reading it until you see something you don't like and ranting back at me. Catherine I like you , I've told you this many times, I love the way you sock it to 'em and don't give a flying **** who you offend, but just remember I'm on your side, I'm a massive enemy of muslims everywhere I'm not a hypocrite like Keithjoy , I'm not a religious nut like Reza, and I'm doing more for the fight against islam that you could ever imagine, but there are things that I can't really broadcast on the net or I'd be digging my own grave.
I'm aware of Britains dated weapons laws Catherine so please stop going on about England not having guns.The government banned guns over here decades before I was even born, and I don't like it but thats the way our pushover government works.Bare in mind that the same laws apply to "british" muslims , so they're just as unarmed as we are , exept they're drastically outnumbered.
But take note Catherine: WE CAN STILL GET GUNS IN THE UK ILLEGALLY!!! You've just got to know the right people, and luckily I do so when the muslims start their jihad over here, I'll be starting mine.
Mahmoud,
If "mighty allah" is so pissed at us then why doesn't he use his "holy sword" to stop us from battering the crap out of your demented muslim brothers in Iraq?
Catherine,
Your last comment to me has been duly noted, but I'd still rather be kicking the living daylights out of Iran's mullahs.