This is a declaration that those who aid unbelievers are themselves unbelievers, and can thus be killed. This is a well-attested principle in Islamic law. From the Jerusalem Post:
A lengthy audiotape purportedly by the spiritual adviser to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's al-Qaida-linked group justifies killing Muslims when their presence protects infidels and threatens revenge on Shiite Muslims.The 74-minute tape, posted Wednesday on an Internet site that often carries statements from Islamic terrorists, identifies the speaker as Sheik Abu Anas al-Shami, spiritual leader for Tawhid and Jihad. His name often is cited in Islamic forums as a religious authority, but he was not known to have released such audiotapes.
"If infidels take Muslims as protectors and Muslims do not fight them, it is allowed to kill the Muslims," the speaker said, then gave an example.
"If there is an interest in killing a Turk, and if it is necessary - meaning that if targeting the infidels is impossible as long as the Turk exists - then killing the Turk serves an interest to all Muslims and his killing is allowed," he said.
Turks, Jordanians, Egyptians and other Muslims have been abducted, but thus far no Muslims are known to have been decapitated.
On extremist Islamic online forums, the accidental killing of Muslims who work for US coalition forces in Iraq has always been a controversial subject, but generally it has been considered justifiable.
Opinions have been more mixed on taking Muslims hostage and beheading them, with some saying "fellow Muslims" should be spared and others urging their killing as examples to others of the fate of those who are "allied with the devil."
OT:
Beloved British friends:
You owe it to yourselves to pop over to Dhimmi Watch and check out Reza's coment on the July 26 "Archbishop of Canterbury ..." thread. Everyone is entitled to a good fit of hilarious laughter at least once a day!
Here is a short statement from one of the most important Islamic organizations in Britain. It describes how Britian can become an Islamic state and should help to reassure those who fear that this must be a violent process. It also contains a short description of how Britain will function under Sharia.
Perhaps this article will help to calm some of the irrational fear of Islam that pervades this web site. It plainly describes the just and pleasant society that will result from imposition of Islamic Sharia law and recognition that Allah (swt) is the only legislator.
Please consider seriously embracing Islam now and working for the realization of this glorious future in accord with the commandments of Almighty Allah (swt). Be part of the bright, shining Islamic future rather than part of the dark, dying past. Remember that the future has been preordained by Allah (swt), who created mankind to worship and glorify Him (swt). Live to please Allah (swt) rather than futilely warring against Him (swt).
Your children will be Muslim.
Allahu akbar
Reza,
I think you should be reminded that the British are historically the most stubborn and war-like of Europeans.
Please keep telling us all how you and your kind intend to spread Islamofascism across the one spot in Europe that stood up to the Nazi fascism, from the beginning of World War II to the end, at the greatest of costs.
I don't want any natives of Great Britain to miss a word of it.
"In war you do not have to be nice - you only have to be right." -Winston Churchill
Reza,
You deluded fool!
I speak for myself , my family, my friends and all the christians , hindus, sikhs , and jews in Britain when I say
"We would rather die a thousand times before we embraced your satanic death cult!!!"
And if I had to die to stop it from spreading across my beloved country than I'd happily do it as a matyr against islam.
Rule Britannia, we shall never be slaves.
If you're so confident that you and your fellow muslim scum could take me then lets arrange a meeting shall we? By bullets , machete, or with my bare hands I will pulverize every muslim that comes near me or my home, if you had the stupidity to try to take over our country.
Oh and Reza , one more thing :
Thanks for sending that link to jihad watch, because I've just printed it, I'm going to make thousands of photocopies, along with copies of all of your insolent comments, and send them to every single national and local newspaper and expose you all for the invading cockroaches that you are, YOU ARE OCCUPIERS, AND OCCUPIERS OF HER MAJESTIES KINGDOM ARE ALWAYS ANNIHILATED.
I'm also writing letters to all the national papers exposing Al Margerine as a terrorist forum, so you can kiss that bag of shits arse good riddance too.
Hope you catch clamydia from your 72 whores, who you and all your kind in the UK will be joining very soon if any kind of attack takes place.
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
FROM: In The River War (1899), Winston Churchill's account of the Sudanese campaign
So, do not think the British are blind. Sir Winston was aware of the truth before the turn of the 20th Century.
Rikki: Excellent post. I and many other Yanks are with you 100%.
Another OT:
From the August 2, 2004 issue of Time magazine:
6% Percentage of France's population that is
muslim
50% Percentage of France's prison
population that is muslim
Let's keep locking them up!
“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”
Islam considers all life forms as sacred. However, the sanctity of human life is accorded a special place. The first and the foremost basic right of a human being is the right to live.
Don't be fooled: rezareza666 and old "Abe" are one and the same.
Even though you can't access it anymore, I'll still point out that Reza identifies herself in her email address as "rezareza666". Puts her comments in perspective, doesn't it?
CGW,
despite what you may believe I and rezarezza are two distinct individuals.
I assure you, "CGW", that I post using only one identity. Of course, you probably knew that, but you persist in your ignorant and childish attempts to snipe at anyone who posts anything here but racist and bigoted attacks on Islam and Muslims. As you well know, other commentors here have asked you to cease your anoying behavior, but you are unmoved by any appeals that you "grow up".
I am sure that the web master here would quickly detect posts with multiple identities coming from the same IP address and deal with the offender appropriately.
Allahu akbar
Abe Bushtoucher,
The man who comes on line to convince us that muslims love us all, and then makes infantile jokes about 9/11.
Can I ask you one thing:
Last thursday you posted a pack of exagerations and lies about islam that not even the most gullible lefty would swallow.
For each one of your meritless points, Bob Owens and DC Watson gave you 100% accurate, returns which proved every single statement you made wrong. Returns packed with overwhelming amounts of evidence that totally crippled your delusions.
And now my question:
If you are so certain and confident of islams benevolence to all other religions why did you could not come back with a single reply nor crumb of evidence to discredit Misters Owens and Watsons replies?
I pesonally think it's because you're full of/busting at the seams with/ and therfore smell of Shit and you know it.
Al- Quran 6:151
“…take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.”
Islam considers all life forms as sacred. However, the sanctity of human life is accorded a special place. The first and the foremost basic right of a human being is the right to live.
Rikki when youy say your going to ask question, please do. But dont insult me please. I insulted nor you nor anyone else here. So lets have a little ballance... eh Rikki ?
Abe Buttmuncher,
Couple of other things where have you been, have you been abducted by CAIR again for another brainwashing session, or have you let your dominant personality Reza do most of the dribbling for you?
Could you please go back to last thursdays thread and answer Bob and DCs questions or try (and fail) to proove them wrong, I'd have a bit more respect for you if you tried rather than falling into deafening silence ( on my respectometre at the moment you're just slightly above muslims, which is 10 places below locusts, 8 below leeches, 4 below maggots and 2 below bacteria).
Reza wailed
"Your children will be Muslim."
It's my CHILDREN now? Has the timetable been moved up? It was my grandchildren last week. Will it be my grandmother becoming Muslim next month?
ABRAHAM BUSHTOUCHER:
"Islam considers all life forms as sacred. However, the sanctity of human life is accorded a special place. The first and the foremost basic right of a human being is the right to live."
Tell me, is that the same basic right that was afforded Nick Berg, Paul Johnson, Kim Sun-il, Fabrizio Quattrocchi, and Keith Maupin?
Or maybe it was the same basic right afforded to the victims of the Mardid, Bali, or 9/11?
Perhaps it is the very basic right that countless millions of non-muslims have been granted from Constantinople to Kashmir, Thailand, Timor, Chechnya, Kosovo, Tunisia, Darfur...
Abe Bunch-sucker,
I did ask you a question, oh I understand you struggle to read , Okay let me copy it to point it out properly:
And now my question:
If you are so certain and confident of islams benevolence to all other religions why did you could not come back with a single reply nor crumb of evidence to discredit Misters Owens and Watsons replies?
This little symbol you see Abe >? is called a QUESTION mark. That means the letters before it all glue together to make words which form a QUESTION.
Stop stalling and answer it you pathetic dork.
And after your sick , sick twisted 9/11 jokes last week, don't ever talk to me about insults, my friends sister DIED in Bali . I'd rather not even acknowledge you at all but I'm just curious as to what you have to say about Bob and DCs statements last week which proved you wrong. Do I have to keep repeating this?
Abe"boys"Buttoucher,
Gone a bit quiet again haven't we?
Rikki:
I love ya, but by now you should know that muslims are incapable of following a logical argument, having no critical thinking skills. All they can do is parrot.
Not only is Reza a woman pretending to be a man, but "Abe" is a muslim. Don't expect sanity from either one of them.
Abe Buttlicker,
Whasamatta?...Cat got your tongue?
PS-You insult me by breathing , but if I had it my way you wouldn't be.
Come on you wuss I'm insulting you aren't you gonna have a go back? You really are 100% the most devoid-of-hope person I've had the misfortune to encounter.
Don't even bother answering me now, your opinions are meaningless to me anyway. It's dangerous allowing anyone as reality-blind as you the privelege of an opinion (something that your muslim friends would love to stop us all, including you, from expressing). Do Reza's posts prove nothing of their agenda.
Belisarius,
Evil men carry out evil actions. If people choose not too follow such teachings we cannot call them Muslims or followers of Islam. Remeber it is the peolple who are the terroists. JUst as it was the IRA launching the bombing campaigns on mainland england did not mean all cathlics were terroists, or that all Catholic Schools, Churceshad were linked to Terroism. Remeber in both case it is not Religion that is carrying out these evil acts. It is the Individual.
Sorry folks typo in my twice repeated question:
.....why did you could not come back with a single reply....
=
.....why could you not come back with a single reply.....
I'm sure everyone worked that out but I didn't want to give my friend Abe the satisfaction , mind you he probably had a job reading it antway.LOL!!!
Rikki:
Old "Abe" posted that he is a muslim over on the July 27 "U.S. Indicts . . . " thread.
ABRAHAM BUSHTOUCHER:
You draw analogies where there are none. The IRA was never waging 'holy war' against the British government. They were fighting for the rights of Catholics, but their methods were in no way endorsed by Catholic teaching.
Jihadists, on the other hand, draw their justification directly from the koran and the actions of muhammad himself. Their actions are praised by many muslims and quietly accepted by many more.
I have been a Catholic my entire life and never have I heard any Church authority defend the violence of IRA. Certain muslim colleagues of mine, however, have attested that their own mosque leaders have openly supported the causes 'palestinian' terrorism taking place half a world away.
I find it difficult to believe that you are naive enough to agree with the logic you've put forward. In fact, you seem more like an apologist trying to muddy the waters of truth.
Abe Bootlicker says:
JUst as it was the IRA launching the bombing campaigns on mainland england did not mean all cathlics were terroists, or that all Catholic Schools, Churceshad were linked to Terroism. Remeber in both case it is not Religion that is carrying out these evil acts. It is the Individual.
But Abe, catholics don't want to eradicate all forms of life off the face of the planet just for not being Catholic.MUSLIMS DO, and the idea of succumbing to islam is a lot less attractive.I'm not condoning what the IRA do ( many members of my family are Irish and catholics and all despise mthe IRA, do you know any muslims that despise terrorists?) but they are fighting to get their country back from the english, and their only beef with another religion is against protestants, plus there are a lot of other factors involved that I'n not going to even bother wasting my time telling a nothing like you.
All I'm saying is muslims pretend to be horrified at acts of terror and make out that the terrorist are a disgrace to islam, but the Q'ran and their attitudes behind closed doors and in their homelands ( where you see them cheering in the streets on 9/11, burning british and american flags and screaming "death to infidels".
Fun dialog. Islamic credibility has sunken to such a low that the whole educated world is lol at it. The edict that now Muslims can "kill Muslims who protect the infidels" is such pathetic relativism coming from one of the "world's great religions" that it is worth a laugh evrytime I read it.
With thanx to Dr Jack Wheeler:
"?The War in Iraq is a continuation of the World?s Oldest War. It is a war that began 25 centuries ago, when a few thousand Athenians, representing the founding culture of Western Civilization, faced a Persian horde many times their size on the field of Marathon.
?The Persians thought they had a holy right to conquer and rule anyone they wanted to. The Greeks looked upon them as Barbarikos , barbarians who valued neither individual freedom nor the individual as such, who lived instead in an anthill society and were willing to subject themselves to the rule of an almighty dictator.
?The Persian dictator, Darius, was sure he would crush these impudent Greeks who dared to demand their freedom from him. At the end of that fateful day in 490 B.C., 6,000 Persians lay dead, versus 200 Athenians. Barbarism?s first attempt to subdue civilization was defeated.
?There have been many, many attempts ever since. For centuries, the Roman Legions held off vast human wolfpacks, but finally succumbed, resulting in the Dark Ages. Islam has conducted a Jihad against the West for 13 centuries.
?The barbaric insanities of Marx and Hitler erupted from within Western Civilization in the 20th century. Today the Oldest War continues, now against Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.
?There could not be a clearer demonstration that the War in Iraq is one between Civilization and Barbarism than the Iraqi behavior we saw on television yesterday. The Oldest War is one that must be continually fought and won anew.?
The people of Iraq as a whole are not barbarians. Yet there is a barbarism in their culture capable of perpetrating subhuman atrocities. Thus the critical conclusion:
If Fallujah is not destroyed now, the genie of barbarism is out of the Iraqi bottle, with Iraq disintegrating into a civil war of annihilation.
Turning Fallujah into rubble, smashing its atrocity with a hammer, is the only way to get this genie back in the bottle. Iraq is not a real country, only a collection of tribes that hate each other.
If the Sunnis of Fallujah can burn and mutilate Americans, Shias will be only too eager to do the same with Sunnis, Kurds to Turkmen, on and on, once American soldiers are no longer there to prevent them from doing so.
Iraq has been liberated from a monstrous tyranny and handed its freedom on a platinum platter. The question now is: Are the Iraqis capable of keeping the freedom that has been given to them? The atrocity of Fallujah is evidence they are not. The destruction of Fallujah will contain the virus of barbarism and give all Iraq a chance to be inoculated against it.
The power of the Internet enables all of us to be a modern Cato the Elder.
From now on, every pro-American writer and blogger should conclude whatever he writes no matter what the subject, every pro-American private citizen and everyone reading this essay should conclude any e-mail they send no matter what the topic with:
Fallujah Delenda Est."
I would revise to say, "Jihadis, delenda est."
We are coming for you.
Abe,
belisarius has a good point. ireland is/was a 400 year old conflict akin to rebellion as opposed to the tenets of jihad which is part and parcel of islam. catholics want northern ireland returned to its historical roots of catholicism; rejoining with overwhelmingly catholic ireland. not the conversion and/or destruction of non-catholics. huge difference. apples and oranges.
you cite examples of benevolence, and they certainly seem nice and all, however you're leaving out the obvious that these sayings ONLY pertain to fellow muslims; not anybody else. that's what the public in general in the kufr world do not understand......yet.
Rikki:
I saw your comment about Iran on another thread. This article at nojihad.com is of particular interest.
Lots of love on this thread I see.....
If people choose not too follow such teachings we cannot call them Muslims or followers of Islam
Posted by: Abraham Bushtoucher at July 28, 2004 11:20 AM
They're just doing what the Koran tells them to do. Sorry Abe, you're not fooling anyone here.
I see the Christians and Jews have a "dhimmiwatch" to protect their rights. I'm having trouble finding the "wikkanwatch". Can someone send me the link? Thanks in advance.
What is winkie watch?
WIKKANwatch...(silly rabbit) for those infidels not "protected" under sharia.
Sorry Muslim dudes, but the prerequisites to becoming a muslim are beyond me.
Park you're brain
give up free will
suspend creative thinking
never question
follow the rules of a 7th century sociopath
love death
pretend life is beautiful
lie to protect the fantasy
kill those who don't believe
earn brown stars for posting on JihadWatch.
May your children blow themselves up in the womb.
Christian Message - "Love one another as I love you."
Muslim Message - "Kill anyone that opposes or helps to oppose the will of Allah."
Hmmm. What's wrong with this picture. Which one should I pick?
Love, love, love, or kill, kill, kill? Of course Reza will advise me to become a killer, but I refuse to associate myself with this vicious, murderous, and self-abnegating ideology.
So, Reza - Put a sock in it!!!!
After a number of weeks of observation it appears to me as if the Muslim posters are trying to occupy Jihadwatch and Dhimmiwatch, ignoring the stories and writing posts to distract/to block/to disrupt non-Muslims from discussing the actual articles and issues. It may be helpful if all would stop feeding the trolls and engaging them in the Islamic discussions of *their* choice and stick to the topics. Engaging people who are acting like trolls is allowing them to ***occupy*** these message threads. End the Muslim occupation of the message threads...ignore the posts. This is Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch...what exactly are Muslims doing here who obviously engage in denial of the facts....think about it.
Dear Abby, They are comedy relief. They are also our whipping boys, they stick out their chin.......so we bash them in......
also, dear abby,
this place would be ridiculously boring. welcome those with a counter opinion because it gives them a chance to show what they have, so to speak. see whose argument holds the most water. i stand with the crowd that is correct, i don't doubt that, however it is at least interesting to go point counter-point with others.
i know islam is a scourge and pestilence but i welcome someone to post who is stupid enough to take a counter-point.
http://masada2000.org/Unmasking-Islam.html
CGW,
It may very well be that Abraham and Reza are indeed two people. But since they are 'linked' to the same Borg Hive or Collective, the distinction at most is minimal.
They are two people.
Regarding the article's proposition that one cannot be a true believer Islam while 'aiding and abetting' the Infidel.. This goes a long way toward confirming why moderate muslims are essentially non-existent.
Wheres Cathrine?
I like those posts the best
UBL is YELLOW!
sorry, ot
Moderate Islam does indeed exist, unless you would beleive that Turkey and Indonesia do not exist. These are both large, predominantly secular Muslim nations, representing over 250 million souls.
There is a saying in Indonesia, "If you see an Arab and a snake, take care of the Arab first."
While there is a terrorist problem in some parts of Indonesia that needs to be addressed, the above comment is not from a people libel to be friendly to radical sects (Wahhabis) bringing their entire religion under fire.
Ask ant devout Muslim CHILD in Turkey,Indonesia,Kuwait,or any of the "Many?" Secular Muslim countries,
What is their main "Dream...wish....
It wont be "I wish for a PUPPY!...
or
"I dream of peace on earth,
They will likely reply
MY DREAM IS THE WHOLE WORLD BE ISLAM!!!!
Take you TWO steps FORWARD and one step BACK
Patience and subterfuge is the way of ISLAM to conquer!!
Appease the infidels, If that be the way to preserve and further the cause of ISLAM
Read this Please before rebuttals
http://masada2000.org/Unmasking-Islam.html
Research these claims ...look at some satellite images
Dolphins find humans to be...VERY amusing.....they just don't want to talk to us
There is NO SUCH THING as a SECULAR MUSLIM! ..sorry...
Imagine an AMISH that drove a Ferrari,has a bigscreen plasma T.V.Plays video Games....etc...etc...etc...This person is NOT Amish!!!
Abe,
From your comments you are either an Islamo-bastard yourself or a left wing liberal slob, who is an apologist for and sympathizer with the Islamo-bastards.
The spineless and gutless yellow coward that you are, it is unlikely you will ever own-up to either of the above.
Her are some facts about Islam, the vile and evil scourge that you so pathetically try to defend:
Islam is a religion of legalistic demands and merciless vengeance.It's "alleged" prophet Mohammed,(an avowed pedophile and child molester),when leading the Muslim armies in the conquests, gave the non-believers three chocies :1) profess the faith of Islam, 2) pay tribute or 3) die by the sword.
Three religion came out of the Middle East: Judaism, Christianty and Islam.Islam is an ideology of intolorence, hate, barbarity and vindictive violence.
Islam and Christianity are at opposite ends of the specturm.Jesus lived a sinless life, whereas Mohammed frequently prayed for the forgiveness of his many vile sins.Jesus never ordered the death of anyone;Mohammed ordered the death of many men and women who refused to convert to Isalm.
Jesus's goal was to establish the kingdom of God, first in the heart of man and then let it affect the world.Mohammed wanted an earthly empire built by external obedience and subjugation.Christianty is based on mercy and love.Islam requires the sword for those who will not submit to "Allah".
Jesus was crucified for the sins of the world and was resurrected on the third day.Mohammed died from pneumonia at the age of 62.
There is, what I could only call a "Satanic" fury behind this "diseased" and acursed religion and in the final analysis this evil, shall be cleansed from the face of the earth.
Every time that "Tushdoucher" gets a whopping he just cowers and crawls back into his hole.
I am sure he will be back, for he surely is a glutton for punishment.
Abraham Bushtoucher;
Thats it.
I've scrolled down your remarks and had about as much of your 'taqqiya' as I can take in one thread.
You've also refused to answer my fellow British friends' questions.
So here goes.
Christians who murder are acting against the commands of Jesus, and should be punished accordingly.
Muslims who murder non-Muslims are obeying the commands of Muhammed.
The verse you quoted from chapter 6 ('Al-An'am) is an abbrogated Meccan verse.
Shall we all have a look at the ones which came after, and by so doing rendered this one 'abbrogated'?
I think we shall. Permit me;
Qur’an 8:67
“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”
Qur’an 9:5
“Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an 9:112
“The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an 9:29
“Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Qur’an 9:123
“Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”
Qur’an 48:27
“If the Muslims had not been there, We would have punished the unbelievers with a grievous torture.”
Qur’an 8:57
“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
Qur’an 8:12
“Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”
Qur'an 4:47
O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad SAW) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface faces (by making them like the back of necks; without nose, mouth, eyes, etc.) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbathbreakers. And the Commandment of Allâh is always executed"
Hey, why stop there? lets have a look what the Hadith has to say about Allahs 'mercy to mankind' - Muhammed;
Bukhari:V4B52N256
“The Prophet passed by and was asked whether it was permissible to attack infidels at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, ‘Their women and children are from them.’”
Bukhari:V1B11N626
“The Prophet said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.’”
Bukhari:V1B1N6
“Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Bukhari:V4B53N386
“Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”
Muslim:C9B1N31
“I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought.”
Well, I think thats enough to be going on with.
Awaiting your reply.
Regards,
KC.
ps; I am online for a further 1 1/2hrs. But due to my work commitment this week I shall not be back after that until friday night.
AvrageJoe,
Amish never play video games? Or watch a big screen television? Obviously, you’ve never heard of rumspringa, where the Amish leave their community to experience the outside world. It is apparently a common practice. To be truthful, I hadn’t heard of it either, but you can find out more by watching a new reality show called Amish in the City that debuts tonight, as a matter of fact, on UPN. Enjoy your education.
A bit of advice: if you want people to take you seriously, use serious sources. A site that quotes Meir Kahane deserves to be treated with the utmost suspicion. A hate site is a hate site, and you will not sway thinking people by using them, not matter which side they advocate.
There are moderates in every religion, even those religions that many of us consider a cult. To say that every single member of a group that is roughly a billion strong is fanatical, is simply a stupid statement and a broad, almost meaningless overgeneralization.
Fight fear with facts, hate with a level head. Once you can begin addressing facts instead of advancing hate, your arguments will be not only more accurate, but more effective.
Good day.
Abe:
I guess human life is sacred as long as it's not black South Sudanese life. If the arab militiamen don't kill the Darfur blacks, they can look forward to a life of slavery! How nice!
Thankyou Bob Owens,....We are wondering
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/apostates.htm
is this site and ALL links they provide merely a Zionist conspiracy to spread Islamophobia & misinformation??
Perhaps we should've used "huddurites" as our poorly thought out and over simplistic example they are more strict?
We have ....no real emotional state in current affairs
things are not always as they appear they are only what they are
By the way...Are these Amish going to own "in their homes " all these electronic devices they will expose themselves to on this television program?
These are individuals aged 17-20? , What do the "Elders?" think of this?
my Poorly thought out "blanket" statements were only endeavoring to illustrate that Secular Muslims are NOT following Islam.
Using Secular Muslim countries as an example of "moderate" Muslims is ...pointless,And only detracts from the real issue ...If not dealt with ISLAM will render the ENTIRE planet earth into a replica of Mars,Be sure
Venus is done...Mars is done...only a handful of small "moons around Jupiter & Saturn remain for humans "50+years MINIMUM and that is only if the planet does the colonization efforts as one people.one "world"
the truth is MUCH uglier for this Earth than anyone can imagine
our apologies for my overreaching and missteps in presenting issues as just an Average person"come across as bigoted or misinformed, I shall try to do better in the next times.
Question for BOB OWENS or HUGH
What is the difference between a "fatwa" and an "opinion?"
Is there a chain of authority which governs either being issued?
Thank you so much for your expert opinion on this subject, from a neophyte JihadWatcher.
Reza, you're really helping us to know what the enemy is doing.
Thanks very much.
DC Watson
I think he means Wiccan watch, for pagans, who are not people of the book.
Voltaire! Spellchecker par excellence! Thanks.
'allied with the devil..'
Well, Muslims ought to know,eh! One must commend
Islam for its prompt answer to anyone who disagrees with its fatwa's or fat Imans. Or an author, or anyone else who dares to express an opinion.'KILL THEM ALL, SOMETIMES WITH MANDATORY
TORTURE is the immediate response of this'peaceful
and tolerant' religion. Maybe the crime is just to have a cuppa with an Infidel or be a business
Partner. Remember the fate of the Iraqi part owner
of a restaurant, obviously a heinous crime since his hands were cut off and he was blinded in both
eyes. Well, Reza and Bushtoucher, let's hear you
protesting about the fate of these innocent Muslims.
Bob Owen
If you've studied the Indonesian history then you'll know why the majority of Indonesian Muslim consider to be moderate.
Prior to Islam, Hinduism and Budhism have a very strong influenced on Indonesian Tribal culture. Islam came to Indonesia on 15th century and in the 16th century, the spanish, portuguese and finally Dutch came and collonialized Indonesia.
So the Muslim didn't have enough time to consolidate it power on Indonesia. The Dutch colloniallist expelled extreme clerics and only hire people who graduated from Dutch sponsored schools.
Most of the founding fathers of the modern Indonesia came from Ducth education background. They had studied overseas (mostly Holland). They've seen the might and power of Western science and administration. So they modelled the new Indonesian government on the western style.
Our founding father aware the danger of the Islamic fundamentalist, so in the public school they only teach the "bright" side of Islam.
But some of the parent who are poor prefer to sent their children to madrasah or islamic school, where they'll learn the violence side of Islam.
Most of the Bali Bombers were graduated from Madrasah.
So Indonesian who graduated from public school didn't know the violence side of islam nor the history of their beloved prophet. I've some discussion with these "moderate muslim" and they were quite shocked to learn that Slavery & Taqiyah (lying for faith) is permited in Islam. It's just some of the example.
So to called these people "Moderate Muslim" is inappropriate. I prefer to call them "Uninformed Muslim". The danger is these Uninformed muslim are also known for their hatred towards the jew and they consider the suicide bombing against Israel is road to martyrdom.
"If you see an Arab and a snake, take care of the Arab first."
errrr...My dear Bob, I'm afraid that you've misquoted it. The real saying is....
"If you see an Indian and a snake, take care of the Indian first."
This because Indian heritage in Indonesia were known for their stingyness.
Indonesian wouldn't dare to make fun of Arabs, the race of the prophet, even though our female workers were raped and male worker considered inferior in the "Holy Land".
IMHO, Moderate Islam is a Myth. Just like in the 1930th there is no Moderate Nazi.
Best regards,
CGW,
Thanks for the link matey!!! You've gotta love those Israelis , they've got balls of steel.
Kc,
You Rock good buddy.
PS-Send us a copy of the Q'ran
Herman,
Thanks for the additional information. The quote was pulled from a January 2004 article by Christopher Hitchens called "A Prayer for Indonesia," and was a direct quote from one of the people he interviewed in that article. I cannot speak to the wider application or origins of that phrase.
Again, I might be in the minority on this, but I do beleive in moderate Islam, as there were clearly "in name only" Nazi Party members.
Does this make these members any less responsible for the actions of the group as a whole? Of course not. But to say every single member of Islam is suicide bomber just waiting for a chance to kill infidels is a bit of a stretch, don't you agree?
The fact that apostates are even possible pretty much negates your argument of all of them being extremists, does it not?
I'm sorry, but we must agree to disagree upon this point.
Let us see the mulsums kill 3000 in the USA and God kills 30,000 in Iran?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] Amen
PS
Yes they Follow YELLOW men !! ubl YELLOW arafat YELLOW
“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”
Again you forget the most important part of 5:32 the Words Jew and will be as if He would KILL ALL MANKIND!!!!
Al- Quran 6:151
“…take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.”
Islam considers all life forms as sacred. However, the sanctity of human life is accorded a special place. The first and the foremost basic right of a human being is the right to live.
Posted by: Abraham Bushtoucher at July 28, 2004 10:51 AM
Again you forget the most important word JEWS
Why is that?
Why do you Folloy YELLOW men? This is the curse upon your people you have changed the word?
mulsums kill 3000 in the USA but God kills 30,000 in Iran?
How many mulsums have died from Earthquaks lately? Yes the other day another 7.3 in a mulsum country?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] Amen
Abe what about if you want to leave muslum land that they can cut your head off?
What about this cleric who says it is okay to kill Iraqi mulsum women and children explain this to me?