More misadventures of that staunch U.S. ally, Pakistan. From the Times of India, with thanks to Fanabba:
WASHINGTON: Pakistan's intelligence officials knew in advance about the 9/11 attacks, a well-known American analyst has said, based on a ''stunning document'' that he claims was given by a Pakistani source to the 9/11 Commission on the eve of the publication of its report.The document, from a high-level, but anonymous Pakistani source, also claims that Osama bin Laden has been receiving periodic dialysis in a military hospital in Peshawar, says Arnaud de Borchgrave, editor-at-large of the news agency UPI.
''The imprints of every major act of international Islamist terrorism invariably passes through Pakistan, right from 9/11 - where virtually all the participants had trained, resided or met in, coordinated with, or received funding from or through Pakistan,'' Borchgrave cites the confidential document as saying.
But one does not have to go to Borchgrave's unnamed sources to find Pakistan’s involvement in terrorist activity leading to 9/11. The 9/11 commission report itself nails Pakistan in chapter after chapter, revealing that the Pakistani intelligence was in cahoots with the Taliban and al Qaeda, far more than Iran and Iraq ever were.
There follows a series of eye-opening extracts from the commission report. Read it all.
With an Ally like Pakistan, you don't need an Enemy,eh!!Alright if you want to keep a cobra as a
pet.Glad to hear Osama B needs dialysis and hope
his condition worsens and the bastard is suffering
heaps of pain...
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are clearly the perpetrators of September 11, but they are allies of the US. Why?
I think that GW knows very well what role these countries play in terrorism....but the has to tread a delicate eggshell such is the reality of politics, its just a pity that the reality of politics dosent figure in those countries.
Keep your friends close --- but your enemies closer.
Reza
Are you the Mohammad Reza Aghdam Ahmandi that killed the the Iranian-Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi?
My grandchildren will wonder how anyone could have been a muslin and thought they could rule the world
One of the Report's recommendations is that the United States help to fund schools other than madrasas for Pakistan. But this is absurd: it makes the Infidels underwrite the economies and the wellbeing of the Muslim world. Since the barrier between Muslim "moderate" and "extremist" -- that is, between the "extremists" who believe deeply in Qur'an and hadith, and are true to both the text, and to Muslim history, on the one hand (the so-called "extremists") and the "moderates" who, for one reason or another (ignorance, laziness, a deliberate inattention to those tenets or an unstated disassocation from them) choose not to, is a porous border, and just as the occasional Al Qaeda member repents, many more Muslims go in the opposite direction -- toward a rediscovery of their Faith, especially in the West where they are deracinated and unhinged by so much freedom or, as they might see it, license.
Nor should Pakistan be given access to more American weaponry. It was folly to ever make Pakistan an "ally" in a largely-useless organization, supposedly devoted to allying certain Muslim states to the West (it was called CENTO; it was worthless; eventually even Washington realized it was worthless, and it disappeared). Pakistan was permitted to acquire major weaponry, and its army to be seen (just as some may still fool themselves into seeing Musharraf) as our kind of people, stout fellows, chop-chop, anglophilic, nice moustaches, can count on them because Muslims hate Communism so what else do we need to know -- none of that Nehru Bandung Conference stuff, or that horrible leftist Krishna Menon -- no, no, Pakistan's the one for us. This, or something very like it, went through the heads of American policymakers in the 1950s, and the 1960s, and the 1970s, and even later. Meanwhile, the essential thing to know about Pakistan -- which is that of all the non-Arab Muslim states, it is that which most devoutly and slavishly follows the Arab line, because the Pakistans (unlike the Afghanis, or the Indonesians) have nothing but Islam, having ignored or rejected or dismissed their own pre-Islamic pasts (it would not do to look too closely at how one's own ancesters, certain Hindus, were forced, by the sword or by intolerable circumstances, to convert to Islam -- so Pakistanis, like the Muslims now in India, must avert their eyes from their own history at every turn. It does not make for mental clarity or stability).
While America was supplying Pakistan with all sorts of advanced airplanes in their teens (F-16s and the like), and ignoring until it was too late the machinations of A. Q. Khan (whom North Korea would like to take this opportunity to thank for his invaluable assistance), and continuing to believe that the Pakistani Army, in up to its neck in supporting the Taliban, and the Pakistani government, in up to its neck in permitting the Saudis to virtually take over the training of Pakistan's young in the tens of thousands of madrasas, were somehow pro-Anmerican, we arrived at the point we are at today.
But even now their is a belief that we have to keep Pakistan going, pay for its Muslim-induced follies and failures. No. There is another and a better way. Pakistan should be disarmed, threatened with complete collapse, in every way, if it does not yield on those nuclear weapons. It can have the weapons and complete economic collapse and abandonment, or it can give up the weapons, and receive not aid, but at least not a sustained campaign to hasten the internal collapse of the country. Which would it prefer? And to the Pakistani elite, including Musharraf, who think they can continue to send their children to Britain and the United States for safekeeping and the Infidel way of life (without becoming, or even admitting to admiring, Infidels), one of the most effective weapons is to deny their families access to Western medical treatment, Western education, Western travel, Western visas and cartes de sejour and even, that which is most desired, permission to remain and live and flourish in that West.
The "Somalia solution" (one does not hear much about Somalia these days -- it is full of rival warlords, violence, economic collapse, and it is no threat to the West). But Pakistan, like the rest of the Muslim world, should not be propped up by the Infidels. They should be doing all they can to make sure that the Muslim world is not rescued, economically or otherwise, but is forced to confront its own political, economic, intellectual, and moral failures. Then, and only then, will an atmosphere in which either Islam is reinterpreted (almost an impossibility) or the practice of Islam constrained severely (which will, as the case of Turkey shows, require eternal vigilance, and there is always the chance of relapse). Islam works to prevent critical and skeptical thought. It is the real reason for the almost total failure of Muslim polities and peoples. Their idea of science is military technology. Their idea of art is limited to calligraphy and some architecture, much of the latter based on Byzantine models. Their lives, now that they have driven out or converted most of the non-Muslims in their midst (the last example of this was Nasser's harrying out of Egypt the Greeks, Jews, Armenians, Italians, and other Levantines who had, for the last two centuries, made Cairo and Alexandria far more interesting than the dismal places they now are).
Krishna Menon, whatever his silly leftism, was never the threat to the United States that the most smiling, pipe-smoking, Sandhurst-educated Muslim general, because of Islam, was, and always will be. This has to be understood.
Voltaire:
>
The majority American mindset on Saudi (I surmise) is that even if Saudi's murdered 3000 Americans, we don't care because we want their oil. I am guessing that there would have to be another successful attack by Islamists, outside the NYC region, for US citizenry to become roused against the Saudi.
The ISI thing is because, since Pakistan is an old cold-war US friend, and because ISI helps Musharef control fission weapons; its better to support that regime, even though they assist Bin Laden.
Look at it this way, if I, personally had the reigns of power, Iraq would come last, and the US would be forced to develop non-islamic petroleum sources; such as off-shore drilling, importation of Athabascan Tar Sand petroleum, and coal to gasoline, biomass, and the like.
Waziristan would've been invaded (in Pakistan) and villages there that had helped Osama would not now exist. Perhaps thats why the American majority who might read this, would sigh with relief, that I am not top dog?
But then we are letting the bad guys win in my opinion, and that too comes with a high price.
Here's an important paragraph for Raisin, Twinkie (Mahmoud), and all the other arrogant, idiot Muslims that feel the United States is an easy pick for their Islamotrash to become dominant (laughs).
Remember these words, Muslim fools:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
BANG!
Morgane, too much pain is not enough for that filthy jihadi. I'd like to see him caught without a scratch on him, and have him crucified in Times Square in a huge pigsty. Have a pump attached to his mouth so he doesn't thirst to death. But the pump doesn't pump in water, it pumps in hog urine. Keep him on monitors, and every time he's about to die, take him down and nurse him back to health. Then repeat, again and again, until he dies of old age. No expense is to be spared to keep him alive. Give him dialysis, give him new kidneys. I want to see him cry. Tie him down and let a litter of diarrhetic piglets run all over him. I want his followers to see him cry and beg to be put out of his misery.
Or maybe drown him in one of those "hog lagoons" in North Carolina. Best one yet: tie him bent-over in a penful of boars hopped up on viagra... spray him with the scent of sows in heat... and let "nature take its course." Tape the whole thing and send it into cyberspace for all the world to see what happens when a jihadi kills innocent Americans.
With comments like these:
I think that GW knows very well what role these countries play in terrorism....but the has to tread a delicate eggshell such is the reality of politics, its just a pity that the reality of politics dosent figure in those countries.
Posted by: Joe Bananas at July 25, 2004 08:19 AM
Keep your friends close --- but your enemies closer.
Posted by: Glenmore at July 25, 2004 08:36 AM
it is becoming painfully obvious to me that a lot of people here would rather prop up President Monkey-in-a-man-suit than fight the jihad on all fronts. Its so ludicrous. Glenmore, what happened to fighting your enemies? And do you remember this quote: "In the war on terror, you are either with us or against us..."?
Was that more empty words, designed to make you hate the Dixie Chicks, Bon Jovi, Mike Moore, Bruce Springsteen, Whoopi Goldberg, Chevy Chase, Bill Maher, Linda Ronstadt, Hitlery, Theresa Kerry, and John Kerry?
Joe, are you saying then that Bush must cowtow to political realities? Is that what he did with Iraq?
General Clark said he would form a joint special ops. team comprised of Americans and Saudis that would be funded by the Saudis, to track Bin Laden and bring him to justice. But he is running against King George, so he "hates America."
Mike Moore tears the Saudis a new one in F9-11, but he talks called W a deserter, so he also "hates America."
Every time anyone anywhere says anything bad about anyone associated with W or anything good about anyone who is against him politically, everyone says "Oooh! Oooh! They hate America, they hate the troops, they hate our hard-woring men in uniform, and that's disgraceful! This just proves you should vote for W!"
And every time new evidence comes out against our "allies" the Pakistanis and the Saudis, you just make excuses for you-know-who.
With your exceptional drama-queening and denial, you'd make excellent dhimmis, you know that?
Reza, Does it snow in Arabia?????
My grandchildren will wonder how anyone could have been a muslin and thought they could rule the world
Posted by: arkie at July 25, 2004 09:19 AM
They have a hard enough time learning to tie their shoes, which is why they prefer velcro.
importation of Athabascan Tar Sand petroleum, and coal to gasoline, biomass, and the like.
Posted by: DHIMMIPOWER at July 25, 2004 10:01 AM
That's already being done, to the tune of 800,000 barrels a day
Re: kj
No, but Bush had to establish diplomatic relations so he could get boots on the ground.
YOU CAN'T GET INTELLIGENCE WITHOUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Not to mention co-operation with the Afghanistan border.
They don't have a problem with thier boots.
They agree with Mao. "All power comes from the barrel of a gun" They have them and know how to use them.
Hugh Somalia is a threat.Through it's immigration.Remember somali immigrant NURADIN ABDI in the Ohio mall bombing plot.
Kj,
Question: Are you an American,do you live here in the States.
I am a bit tired of your anti-Busch rhetoric.
Sounds as if you are a pc liberal Democrat with plenty of condemnation for George Bush yet you and your ilk have no practical answers or solutions.
George Bush is playing the game of politics as all politicians do, whether Democrat or Republicanas and as such all political leaders are open to criticism.
Obviously,not all the anti-Bush crowd hate America,although Michael Moore, the supreme anti-American hating slob and the Hollywood lefties certianly do.
The idea of a joint American/Saudi effort to capture or kill Bin laden is absurd if not down right dumb.The Saudis can not be trusted, if had educated yourself about them, then you would know this.
Finally, your fantasy about torturing Bin Laden is juvenile and will accomplish nothing except putting us on the same level as the enemy.
Hugh,
You're very right about how to deal with Pakistan. I don't however, see the State Dept., much less the Congress, being entirely up to speed on the problem.
Also, I like the idea of devoting a great deal of time and energy into developing new energy sources. I'm afraid that will be very difficult and time consuming and will probably only occur in the distant (decades from now) future, whereas the problem of Islam is right now.
First we have to come to grips with who the enemy actually is and that's happening slowly but surely. I feel very comfortable with Bush's leadership so far. He has great instincts and intuition. I trust him.
There is politics, and then there is NUCLEAR politics. Pakistanis worship their Allah bomb.
I've heard that we have special teams ready day or night to go into Pakistan and remove their nuclear arsenal when the shit-hits-the-fan. Why wait? Are we trusting Mushareff to keep these weapons out of the hands of terrorists? Aren't they already in the hands of terrorists?
Don't forget that Wall Street Journal reporter, Daniel Pearl, was slaughtered (beheaded) in Pakistan with the knowledge and assistance, of the ISI.
Despite all the weeping and hand wringing, I don't remember the U.S. doing anything about it? Everyone cried a lot for poor Daniel Pearl, his pregnant wife and family. But then, we let the ISI "hunt down" and "try", with others, the mastermind, Omar Saeed Sheik. (A man of Pakistani heritage who was born, raised and educated in England, (sound familiar?) but grew to loathe the west after he visited Bosnia. A man who was a member of Jaish e-Mohammed, one of the most extreme and violent Islamist groups in Pakistan. A man with ties to bin Laden's inner circle. The man who was the recipient of the electronic transfers of unused funds from two of the 9/11 hijackers.
It's pathetic watching Musharref become more "Christian" with each assassination attempt on his life. And the U.S. just continues with the drama that he and Pakistan are our friends, and that day by day they are getting seriouser and seriouser about killing terrorists, hunting for bin Laden and supporting the U.S.
The 9/11 commission report gives the appearance of a beginning of getting informed. It's mind boggling that it took three years and a commission to begin to begin. And now what is really frightening is that our Congress wants to begin to begin to take some serious action.
I'm sure that the enemy is just sitting in their caves, quaking in their dirty pajamas.
......quaking with laughter.
test
The enemy is,the poisonous and vile ideology of Islam.
Moore so, "Wahabbism" which comes from the sunni Muslim country of Saudi Arabia and is the brand of Islam that is fueling the current global "Jihad" against Western culture and society.
The Saudis with their billions in oil money have been exporting, promoting and financing this scourge for years.
Seventy to eighty percent of the mosques in the US, which are based on wahabbism, were established with Saudi money and this continues today along with their support of these "so called" moderate Islamic organizations here in the States.
The goverments of Syria and Iran are financing and harboring the Islamo-fascists.Iran which is a shite based Islamic theocracy run by fanatical mullahs and clerics, poses a serious threat with their current pursuit to develope nuclear weapons.
The United States dependency on Middle Eastern oil as well as the rest of the Western World is part of the problem.
Changing this will be extremely difficult, especially here in the States where the oil companys have great lobbying power and influence in the area of politics.
If we attempt to solve this problem of Islamo-facisim diplomaticlly,we will fail miserably.
Evil can not be negoiated with or compromised with and never appeased,history has taught us that,ie.Fascism and Nazism.
Clear and decisive military action against the countries that support and finance the Islamo-fascists is what is necessary if we are going to prevail.
The threat is real and serious,their agenda is clear,world subjugation to Islam and the death and destruction of our way of life.
Has anyone else noticed the right hand column of the NYT for the past few days, something about Kerry saying if we have another terror attack, its because Bush has not done enough? Jumping on the 9-11 Commission Report, of course its not political & he's trying to get away from the "hate Bush" theme. Perhaps he's run out of new ideas? Also, notice, its always all about Kerry? Vietnam, "I was a war hero". Me, me, me. A poll-led leader, no backbone.
On a more serious note, is that a direct invitation for a Madrid, Spain redux? If the Islamo-fascists want a weaker president, would they not want Kerry? Its like honey to the bee. But its the NYT, why am I surprised or shocked?
DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION- 2004 OPENING NIGHT AGENDA
6:00 p.m. - Opening flag burning ceremony
6:15 p.m. - Opening secular prayers by Rev. Jesse Jackson and Rev. AI Sharpton
6:30 p.m. - Anti-war concert by Dixie Chicks and Linda Ronstadt
6:45 p.m. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
7:00 p.m. - Tribute theme to France
7:15 p.m. Collections for Al- Zawhari and Abu Hamza defense fund
7:30 p.m. - Whoopi Goldberg Speech: Female Genitalia
7:45 p.m. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
8:00 p.m. - Terrorist Appeasement Workshop: Gloria Arroyo and Koffi Annan
8:30 p.m. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
8:45 p.m. - Gay Marriage Ceremony
9:00 p.m. – * Intermission *
9:15 p.m. - Public Speaking Workshop: Theresa Kerry
9:30 p.m. - Re-enactment of Kerry's fake medal toss
9:45.p.m. Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
10:00 p.m. - Weightloss Seminar with Michael Moore
10:15 p.m. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
11:15 p.m. - Hillary Clinton Speech: Keeping you Husband Faithful
11:30 p.m. - Cameo Appearence: Yassir Arafat
11 :45 p.m. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
12:00 p.m. - Nomination of Democratic Candidate
12:15 a.m. – Closing Ceremonies – Disposition of Ashes from Opening Flag Burning Ceremony
Any Chance we could get Ted Kennedy to drive Hillary home from the convention?
Speaking of the DNC I live off the common, and walking thru it today noticed a man with a Bush head-cover mask, wearing a T-shirt "Abu Ghraib". I said "so in your world, Saddam never tortured anyone." He jumped into his rhetoric, and all I could do was walk away.
daughter of patriots,
The anti-Bush slob with the Abu-Ghraib T-shirt is a typical representation of the America hating left wing idiots who have the "disease" of liberalism.
Their polictally corrcet agenda is weaking this nation and underminding our efforts to combat the scourge of Islam-fascism.
These anarchistic slobs would be well sutied as "human sheilds" durning the next US air strike in Fallujah.
Here in New York ,I recently asked some of the people campaigning for John "the phoney war hero" Kerry and John "the ambulance chasing" Ewards, why these men should be elected. Their only responce was "any body but Bush".they have no political argument, not surprising.
Son of Infidel
I lived in NYC till after 9/11. Shortly after that day of infamy, I looked at the 96 Street mosque with new vision. I had failed to notice how like a "fortress" its architectural design appeared, complete with security fence. A light bulb went on over my head. As Jerry Seinfeld would say "Islam, what's up that!?" Religion of peace, I don't think so.
The quickest and the most humane way of bringing a satisfactory end to this ongoing Jihad, is to admit to Muslims that indeed there is a dar al Islam and a dar al harb world. As the latter is dar al harb, it is logical that war be waged in it. The best way for us to wage war is not to incarcerate Jihadis but to deport them and all their supporters. This is the most fearful weapon we have as far the Ummah is concerned, and that it fears the greatest.Then to have a virtual economic and cultural isolation between the two worlds.
Unable to even feed itself, let alone provide for medicines and other scientific and technological goodies, the Islamic world will have no alternative but to confront the demon at the heart of Islam. It needs bearing in mind that a similar cultural and economic isolation worked very well against the Warsaw pact.
In passing, it might be worth it to rescue the terribly persecuted Christians in Islamic nations, preferably in exchange for 'our' Muslims.
Hugh:
You make a good point about Pakistanis. They have nothing but Islam, an Arab colonial ideology. Their own culture they have rejected and so they become even more fanatic in their allegiance to their colonial masters, the Arabs.
V.K. Naipual makes the same points, when he examines the cultural and spiritual blind alley that Islam has led non-Arab Muslims into.
As for Somalia, they are a nomadic people whose main economy rested on briggandage. As such they are happy in a faith whose leader was the ultimate briggand. They are unlikely to ever meditate on the meaning of life etc. Ditto Afghanistan. They have no recollection of Buddhism. However as immigrants to the West, they pose serious problems; not just them but their rapidly increasing descendents.
For Iran though I have hopes.
DP111,
Much of the Western world is dependent on Middle Eastern oil, as such how would you economically isolate the Arab Muslims countries?
Futhermore the developement of alternative energy sources at this time is unlikely.The oil companies have strong influnce in the political arena.
In addition the Islamic world already has nuclear weapons,ie Pakistan which is 97% (radical) Muslims,and Iran is currently developing the same for the purpose of using them.
Musharaff's Goverment is not stable, there have already been several attempts on his live. I do not believe he has a long life span and with his death the radicals may very likely cease power.
All this intellectualizing is nice but it will not slove the problem.
Well planned clear decisive military action is what is needed.
If you haven't noticed, we are at WAR
Everyone I've just set up a forum at Delphiforum.net and it's called The Human Rights Party.
The URL is http://forums.delphiforums.com/western1
To HELL with Pakistan. We should have invaded them when we went into Afghanistan.
More to the point, the biggest problem we have in executing the War On Terror ( aside from the so-called " lefts " total inability to oppose Islam )is the guys in charge are trying to do it as pain free as possible. Which could lead to a lot more pain and suffering down the road.
Pakistan has the where with all to cause a whole hell of a lot more killing and damage than the Taliban or Al Quida of Afghanistan ever did. By avoiding confrontation with them now, we could pay a much more painful price in the future. Ditto Suadi Arabia.
Look at the half assed invasion of Afghanistan that allowed Osama Bin Laden to slip through our merchinary forces hands ( that's right we were counting of local Afghan fighters to seal the boarder and see what happened? ) to the half assed occupation of Iraq where we can't bring ourselfs to crush terrorist cells and networks in Fallujah or even arrest Al Sadr.
All because we are afraid of stirring up more trouble and causing more deaths now. What our leadership does not realise is that we are paving the road for our worst fears and timid actions of today will in fact lead to far more deaths in the future. Problems left to fester will not go away but will only become bigger problems down the road.
Nostrodamus
Nostrodamus,
Finally, someone else who recognizes the threat that Pakistan poses to the world.I'm with you 100%.
Pakistan is a time bomb waiting to explode.The country is made up of mostly radical Muslims.
Here in New York I have had an opportunity to speak with some of these "peace loving" Muslims, as 50-60% of the taxi drivers her are Pakistanis.
They are filled with a deep hatered for Americans and especially Jews and Christians.
Man's unwillingness to learn from the past will only lead to his down fall in the future.
Son of Infidel
July,2004
KJ, I formally invite you to come to my new forum The Human Rights Party
The URL is
http://forums.delphiforums.com/western1
This forum is a forum which is open to EVERYONE: right wing, left wing, conservative, socialist, liberal, gay, straight, etc. who is opposed to Islam.
It is opposed to racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia and anti-semitism.
I want the Bush bashers there, as well as the Bush supporters.
Please come, KJ and everyone else, (except Reza.)
Pakistan, Pakistan, Pakistan.... The word stands for "Stan= homeland, Paki =Pure i.e."land of the pure" but pure what? is the real question.
You know there was no need to have a Pakistan. Only a handful of people (Jahidis) wanted a separate state from India, I am surprised that the British didn't see these people for what they were having ruled there for over 250 years...but I guess that they just wanted out when the going got tough.
I think one of the reasons for this is that while the muslim was interacting (in India as a whole) with the Sikh or the Hindu, he didn't or couldn't show his true colours. Indeed he liked the freedom that this interaction brought...but as soon as they separated. the muslim umma showed their true colours.
Ofcourse Pakistan could never have gone nucelar without the aid of China, but they too will regret this one day. If there a is a nucleur conflict between India & Pakistan , China too will feel the effects of fallout...and so they bloody well should.
As a Sikh, we were the ones who lost out most from the partition, with our ancestoral homeland being taken over by the Pakistanis. Guru Nanak the founder of Sikhism was born in "Pakistan" and a lot of our historical buildings are now in Pakistan.
With their mindset I am fearful that they can close the borders and knock these down monuments whenever they wish....ofcourse this will come at a price to Pakistan...as they will be reviled by Sikhs the world over ...hopefully forever.
But you know, were this to happen I have reconciled myself already ..why...because I will still have the message that Guru Nanak and the other Sikh Gurus left for us...one of peace, harmony, equal rights together with a stout backbone to fight for freedom. This is far more important and significant.
The Pakistans will have to learn the hard way that they have been duped by Mo for 1400 years.
I've always said Pakistan is the no.1 enemy of the west along with Saudi Arabia and possibly Iran. For starters being british it's been obvious to me for many years that the islamic epidemic in this country is a direct result of the hugh number of Pakistani immigrants we've had comming over here in steadily increasing numbers since the 1960s. They've laid drew the blueprints and laid the foundations for a muslim society in the UK and now the waves of asylum seekers ( or illegal immigrants to use a less politically correct term) are the bricks, with liberalism and a government scared to death of offending them quite literally the cement that holds it all together.
So judging by the initiation of the dhimmitizing of the UK by Pakistanis, and certain things I've witnessed from these Pakistani invaders, I'd say that all along Pakistan has been the heart of jihad against western society for many year now, and as many on this site have pointed out before, the age of the internet has bought forth the dawn of the awakening against jihad. This is a strong possibility why acts of terror have risen greatly with the birth of the internet, because the extremists and hardcore jihadists realise that they must act now, not just with warfare and terror but also with Dhimmi, which I believe is the most dangerous and destructive element of Jihad. It is Dhimmitude which will lead to the crumbling of the west, rather than terrorism, IF WE LET IT.
Don't let my last comment make you believe that I have any confidence that the invaders will succeed though, the desperation that is being shown by muslims at present, because the west is starting to latch onto them, prooves that they are now just firing everything they've got as a last ditch attempt to please "allah". Which is ,in itself , a sign that the struggle is (relatively) almost over , because if the best they have is what they are firing at us now, then the only thing we really have to worry about is the rest of America and Europe not waking up in time to do something EFFECTIVE about it.
Keithjoy,
Love your idea on torturing Bin Liner, but if you'd take time to read any of my comments I think you'd see that I'm more than up for the idea of annihilating the every last on of our muslim ememies, starting with Pakistan , then Iran , then Saudi Arabia....etc, but lets face it it's not gonna happen because people like you who see the world through the eyes ( via the the rectum and intestines ,may I add)of media dough nuts such as Mike Moore, who do nothing for the global fight against jihad exept for knock it back several years ( 3 years and a month to be precise which would take us roughly back to semptember 2001... the begging of), attempting to convince dumbass filmgoers that america is safe from terror . I'm suprised he didn't come out with the classic " islam is a religion of peace" pig-shite.
I dare you to call me a Bush-lover ( please see last weeks comment on the nuclear weapons thread), I'm with you, bomb the bastards to kingdom never, but when I say it , it doesn't sound quite so hypocritical.
PS- I haven't had the misfortune to watch, or waste my money on , F9/11 so please tell me how Michael"famine creator" moore tore the house of Suad " a new one ".
Above typo
Begging of= Beggining of
Singh,
Great post mate.
To remove any doubts that pakistan is the true locus of global jihad, read this headline article from last week's Spectator. This public call from the rooftop leaves no doubt that the people of Britain are awakening to the threat, not suprizingly its from the muslim community who's roots are pakistani. The same evolution is being repeated in canada, except here they're been granted real power by the suicidal fools running the show. For the past fourty years pakistan has been surreptitiously exporting islam and proto-colonizing western states with its emissaries.
Triumhp of the east
All Muslim nations will be "dealt" with eventually. It's just a matter of time before the United States is finally is forced to really be put on a "war footing." The world hasn't really seen that since World War II, despite what so many fearful and ignorant enemies chatter about.
I believe it's coming, and sooner than anyone expects. I angers me that it is going to cost more American lives to get us to that point.
Again, along with posting our comments on this great site, please consider faxing or e-mailing your State Senators and State Representatives and let them know how you feel about the immigration of Somalis and the immigration of Arabs to the United States.
Check out http://www.cairco.org/, it's an immigration reform website with some interesting statistics. Our immigration is our weakness. Please contact your Government officials, I cannot possibly do this by myself and expect to make an impact.
D.C.
Pakistan is that non-Arab Muslim country most subject to Arab influence. This comes from several sources: 1) that Pakistan essentially has nothing else in its mental makeup. It is a state which was created by Muslims, for Muslims. The history of the non-Islamic or pre-Islamic past, including the civilizations of Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa, is of no significance to Msulims. They lack even a curiosity about Hindi civilization, which for them represents only something to be combatted, even if not always openly (India, at the moment, is simply too strong). Through having to come to terms with a much larger non-Muslim population, Indian Muslims are, on the whole, somewhat less fanatical in their attachment and promotion of Islam -- but this depends entirely on their continued awareness of their own relative weakness. The aggressive and malevolent tents of Islam remain the same. It is fashionable among the younger Indians to pooh-pooh this problem, and to ape, even as once the Krishna Menons aped the Marxism of the West, those in the West who pretend that there is nothing really wrong with Islam. Besides, it is great fun to mock the B.J.P. and those supposed Hindutva fanatics. This is all in the realm of striking a pose, not of serious analysis of what Islam has meant to the civilization of India. The Taj Majal, that "tear in marble," and some other Mughal mosques (often built by non-Muslim craftsmen) hardly out to be confused with the persecution and mass murder of Hindus and damage to Indian artifcats (the 60-70 million human victims, the tens of thousands of HIndu temples razed, the hundreds of thousands of statues defaced or destroyed as, according to Islamic tenets, they must be) -- all this is not a figment of the B.J.P. imagination, and it would be good to see some recognition of this from those, within India, who like to think of themselves as the enlightened. If they are truly enlightened, they should not make the mistake of ignoring this history, or drawing conclusions from their own harmonious relations with Indian Muslims who may be as represenative of Islam, and its tenets, as Andrey Sakharov was of Soviet Russia -- that is, not at all. There are plenty of intelligent people born into Islam who do not make much of their disaffection from it, and may even call themselves Muslim (for some reason the moviemaker Ismail Merchant comes to mind)but one really ought not to lose one's head by the evidence of such examples. What one needs to worry about are large numbers of people, general tendencies, a history over time that can be examined.
The tenets of Islam are clear. And if they are more virulent in their effect in Pakistan, it is because the wretched of Pakistan, who might once have lived quietly in their villages, without constant exposure to the inculcated hatred for Infidels, have been forever transformed by the Arab influence that, in funding tens of thousands of madrasas, churns out people who are both thoroughly grounded in the tenets of Islam, and often regard as their supreme mental achievement the learning, by rote, of 6,200 verses in a language they hardly understand, and who, as a consequence, have learned nothing that could be considered a marketable skill. But what do the rich Saudis care? They have their money, which they have had to do nothing to earn (it is the result of an accident of geology). Why should they care if they are creating a situation of utter economic hopelessness for Pakistan? And in helping to fund these madrasas, and to churn out these violently anti-Infidel people, the rich Gulf Arabs are also helping to make the situation of Pakistan intolerable in other ways. Internally, Christians and Hindus and Sikhs must live in constant fear. And Western investors in textiles and suchlike, already more likely to move to China, will be disinclined to make further investments in Pakistan where there is such anti-Infidel feeling. What human being wishes to put a plant in a country where he and his executives would themselves be afraid to visit? Ultimately, the Islamic fervor will put Pakistan, and Bangladesh, and then perhaps even Indonesia and Malaysia, increasingly off the map for Western investors -- as if Chinese labor costs were not already enough. Islam, whatever else it is, is an economic failure. Even with the huge amount of unearned oil wealth, the Arab states collectively have a GDP of one small European country. Without that oil, which they did nothing to deserve (it has no connection to real economic activity), they would remain miserably poor. And they would remain poor not because of "the West" or "colonialism" (Saudi Arabia was NEVER colonized, and most of the Arab states "suffered" from colonialism -- if that is how one wishes to describe the successful French effort to develop a flourishing agriculture in North Africa which remains the Maghreb's only real source of revenue except for the fossil fuels -- only for a few decades. Indeed, the argument about "colonialism" is idiotic; everywhere that there was a brief period of colonial rule replacing Muslim rule, the government was run better (Lord Cromer cleaned up the Egyptian civil service, and managed to make it semi-efficient for the only time in its history; the Dutch did the same in the East Indies, now Indonesia), the economy improved (the French effort in Algeria, for example), the lot of non-Muslims became less intolerable (in French North Africa, where Jews could become French citizens so as not to be subject to sharia), in Syria and Lebanon (where Christians continued to exist, for a time still protected by French power until independence), in the sheikhdoms (where the British suppressed the slave trade conducted by the Arabs, for slavery remains sanctioned by Islam).
The attempts to buy Pakistan off in the past led to Pakistani supplying of (nuclear technology to other dangerous countries (Libya, Iran, North Korean), through the efforts of "national hero" A. Q. Khan (who himself relied on technology he had stolen, and on Western traitors willing to collaborate with his efforts). They have allowed Pakistan's army, through the I.S.I., to promote and support the Taliban. The refusal to see Pakistan as full of people with -- not an alien creed (Buddhism and Hinduism, in a sense, are "alien" creeds to the West, but they in no threaten that West), but more importantly, a hostile creed -- allowed the migration of Pakistanis into England and elsewehre. They may have come seeking work and economic benefits, but they did not leave their gun at the door -- they did not drop, that is, their adherence to Islam, with all that means not so much for the first, exhausted, possibly even grateful generation, but for all the generations that follow -- and for the possiblity, that at any time, there may be a reversion to Islamic beliefs in all their dangerousness. For the second and third generations, and all others, will contain people who suffer setbacks, real or perceived, of the kind that all people do. But we who are not Muslim tend not to blame a prefabricated enemy (save for that irreducible percentage of the population that is antisemitic and has the oldest scapegoat of them all to blame),but ourselves, our children, our parents, the stars, our cholesterol level, our serotonin level. Muslims who lose jobs, girlfriends, status, who feel out of sorts with the universe, always have one enemy to blame -- the Infidels. That is why a Pakistani (unless of course he is a non-Muslim Pakistani, or one susceptible of conversion or apostacy) who remains in Quetta or Rawalpindi is far less of a threat than if he should move to London or Bradford or New York City. This is something that has to be understood.
DC Watson,
There's no way I could possibly say anything to the US government about the immigration of muslims to the US , I'm british, it's up to you guys to deal with that, we've got our own shit to deal with over here man , but if you think it would do any good brits doing it then count me in, I just think we'd be pitifully ignore. You know the kind of political attitude: "he's a brit what the hell does he know about the states?".
Anyway , I thought Robert Spencer was supposed to be sending a big time letter to the white house along with pages of writings by Hugh and thousands of letters from like-minded people.
July 26, 2004
? Why have we not seen any pictures of UBL since Tora-bora ?? Could it be because he is yellow?
Could the Arabs be trying to pull a Hannibal? Like we are stupid?
Earth Quake in Indonesia? 7.3 is that not a mulsum country and ?
What did Sandy Berger stuff in his pants? If the Democrats are willing to do that when they are out of power what did they hide when they had power?
Reza why do your terrorist keep killing the women and children of Iraq??? Yes heard today they killed some more women and children and yes the Iraqi police killed some more terrorist today!!
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040720-040531-4759r.htm
Cold War group revived to fight terror
By David F. Brown
United Press International
Washington, DC, Jul. 20 (UPI) -- An organization originally created to combat communist expansion in the 1950s was reincarnated on Capitol Hill as another participant in the war against terrorism.
"We've got to constantly remind our fellow citizens and our allies around the world that this, like the Cold War, is a conflict that requires a commitment over a long period of time," he said. Kyl said it was particularly important to remain committed even in the face of setbacks or times when the enemy was perceived to be inactive.
Former CIA Director James Woolsey will serve as the committee's chairman. Before introducing Lieberman and Kyl, Woolsey said the war on terror is a war against extremist Islamist ideology, which he carefully distinguished from the religion of Islam as practiced by the vast majority of Muslims around the world.
This is good they are using some words other than terrorist?
Look at the whole board and think about Hannibale ? put the chinese on the side of the mulsums?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3925277.stm
Killings by Pirates on the rise?
Think of the Arabs running out of oil ? and the Sudan in the south is full of oil and also Chirstains? think as the mulsum is just a way to forward the greed?
and Why have we seen no pictures of UBL since Tora-Bora could he be yellow and this is a curse in the Arab world? so they would lose the will to fight and why have we seen no pictures of the Earth-Qake in Indoneasa we have to know that a 7.3 is a killer with mud huts and was not Kaun shipping chinese nuke stuff to Malis? is this not all in the same chain?
What did Hannabal do drew in then close in?
But he was not able to take Roma and lost Carthage? and had to wander just as a killer nothing more and killed himself in Turkey before Rome was able to get him?
We Wll Look at the Whole Board and the UN is showing its hand and the d-ck is limp?
No Army?
Part of the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Hugh,
Thanks for backing me up on that one , although I've had a lot of experience with Pakistanis in the UK and have seen and heard the supicious ways they behave and know 100% that they are at the forefront of jihad in the UK, moreso than arabs, I had a very limited knowledge of their countries history and suprisngly little of why they came here in the first place.
Once begin to see them as invaders or enemies you really do start seeing them and their actions as far more sinister. The way they stand in groups in town centres talking in punjabi so you can't understand, they look at you with the dead eye as if to say "given half the chance I'd put a knife in your throat", the same attitude is present when you visit a corner shop owned by these people.
And then of course there's the reason I know they are the biggest threat to the UKs stability than any other muslim group (despite the fact there are more of them than any other muslim minority):
HEROIN.
Pakistanis and Afghans are the biggest importers of heroin into the UK, which is why since the late nineties, Britain has witnessed the drug problem get rapidly worse, it got so bad that there were kids as young as 12 on iut possibly younger. Their goal is to make as many infidel smack-heads as possible, infidels addicted to drugs do not breed , do not go to university, do not work, do not become politicians. Infidel drug addicts die, go to prison, have miscarriages , become impotent/infertile, commit crimewaves causing massive damage to the infidel countries economy, and at the same time are putting money in the pockets of muslim importers who are bringing tonnes of the stuff into the UK for a mere fraction of the price that they are paying for it. So, you think oil is the only muslim export think again. It's one of the most effective forms of terrorism they've dreamt up yet, think about it, whole generations of british born and bred kids with good families who've had good upbringings are being wiped out by addictive poison given to us by the religion of peace. Generations of brothers and sisters are being exterminated by it causing that families ancestry to stop in it's tracks . Then there's the fact that it's being cut with all kinds of lethal chemicals, to make evenmore profit and so the muslim smaqck-heads can feed there habits cheaper.
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are clearly the perpetrators of September 11, but they are allies of the US. Why?
Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 08:09 AM
Almost right but they are fighting amongest them selfs over the power Pask has a nuke but Saudis still have the riches Oil?
remember that UBL is in Pak. not Saudi?
Also UBL was kicked out of Saudi? and the criple claric turned himself in to Saudi? and the pask. are alot of where the rummors abour Saudi comes from I.E. Monser Ejasa?
This is to our avantage in the War that there is so much in fighting ?
Remember Hannibal? Carthage Fell?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight wiht her Give them Strength and Courage and Wisdom to stay the course to Victory Amen
Think UBL and the color Yellow and why he has not been seen since Tora-Bora and that borders Pack.? Why yellow something about the color yellow and an arab curse that is why herman was so upset the other day?
Bottom Line:
The UK heroin epidemic is being piled in by Pakistani drug importers to wipe out as many true-brits as possibly , while at the same time they are mass-breeding. They are trying to make the original british people the minorities so they can dhimmitize it. The same goes for Europe and America and no-ones doing a goddamn thing to stop it. Maybe instead of fucking around in Iraq they should start annihilating the enemies a little closer to home.
Nor should Pakistan be given access to more American weaponry. It was folly to ever make Pakistan an "ally" in a largely-useless organization, supposedly devoted to allying certain Muslim states to the West (it was called CENTO; it was worthless; eventually even Washington realized it was worthless, and it disappeared).
Posted by: Hugh at July 25, 2004 09:56 AM
I have been wondering Why a country who invented nukes Why would they need bullets from America makes no since to me I mean is not a plane easier to make?
This is part of the mulsum paln to tie us up while they pounce like Hanniable But remember he lost carthage which mulsum country is Carthage that is the Big ?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Only those not paying attention can't see what the inevitable, pakistan, the nuclear weapons assembly line for Jihad will without a doubt facilitate these various movements with atomic devices. Count on it. Just a passing observation, it seems this jihadi types always come back to thank the traitors who assisted them with blood - if I was living in Moscow it would be particularly worrisome. Its rather tragic that people believe its only wild speculation as to what's coming. As Hugh alluded to this state's existence; the sole purpose is the coalecsing of islamic martial aspirations, the serpents head arises when required. Using this tactic allows the collective movement to avoid retaliation from other states, much like 9/11, were a confused America chose to drop bombs in the middle of nowhere rather than on their real enemies. As stated before, if a device goes off, who 'll be blamed? Pakistan will continue to exist as a state for as long as it takes to produce a sufficient stockpile of devices. Once the objective has been achieved it will return to a state of dissolution, the standard aegis for dar al Islam.
The 9/11 commission report gives the appearance of a beginning of getting informed. It's mind boggling that it took three years and a commission to begin to begin. And now what is really frightening is that our Congress wants to begin to begin to take some serious action.
I'm sure that the enemy is just sitting in their caves, quaking in their dirty pajamas.
......quaking with laughter.
Posted by: mrpianomansmom at July 25, 2004 02:24 PM
Well it might have been found sooner if the Democrats like sandy Berger had not been stuffing the info in his pants? Wht did the hide when they were in Charge?
Look at the whole chess board not just the back line? Think out of the Box???
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS
Keep a man who wears sh-t-kickers there is a lot of sh-t that needs a kicking!!!!!
Catherine,
Talking about selling high tech weaponary to Pakistan ... the USA is doing more than that.
Recently the US has ordered stockpiles of low tech weaponary, machine guns rifles, mortar rounds etc from Pakistan to use in Afganistan.
The thing about this is inspectors get sent to ensure the quality fo the weapons and ammo. If not quite up to scratch, the inspectors make recommendations to improve the quality to US standards. No doubt thyat in the future, these same "quality" ammo will be used against the US or Indian troops....absolute madness in my opinion.
As Hugh implied, there are basic reasons why they are not economically successful. Apart from the basic "we won't invest there", any Pakistani enterprise must be run by a muslim. Any hindu/Sikh living in Pakistan cannot have a higher post than a clerk. For example, they may have a Bill Gates in their midst but if he is not muslim, then he ain't going anywhere in that enterprise.
I tell ya, the US is playing a dangerous game by having Saudis, Pakistan (and to an extent China )as allies. Whenever there is a period of instability on the stock market the US encourages the Saudis to buy stock. The net effect is that the Saudis have over a trillion dollars in the stock market, and a similar situation exists for China. Instead of us squeezing them, it is they who have us by the "provebial" balls.
I predict that any future world war we will see will be the Middle East + pakistan + china + North Korea versus the rest.
The message is that we have to be careful on all aspects against these countries...both militarily and financially.
And then of course there's the reason I know they are the biggest threat to the UKs stability than any other muslim group (despite the fact there are more of them than any other muslim minority):
Posted by: Rikki at July 26, 2004 11:11 AM
The biggest threat to you'al is you gave up your guns you need to vote in people who will give them back!!!
And make sure that the people understand that if they get rid of tony it is because he does not support you having guns!! not that it would be against the War on terror!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to stay the course to Victory Amen
I predict that any future world war we will see will be the Middle East + pakistan + china + North Korea versus the rest.
The message is that we have to be careful on all aspects against these countries...both militarily and financially.
Posted by: Singh at July 26, 2004 11:51 AM
Exactly!! and we can thank bill clinton for taking the trade statis to a new leval with China??
Remember who were our ais in WW2 not many the rest of the world had been taken over??
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] Amen
PS
FREEDOM TO WEAR SHORT SKIRTS AND DRINK BOOZE!!!!
Islam in the West should be viewed as a rotten tooth, and removed.
Rikki, you're 100% right about the Pakistanis in the UK. Did you hear about that Channel 4 documentary about Pakistani men "grooming" white British girls (in Bradford I think it was) to become heroin addicts and prostitutes ? It was supposed to be shown before the European elections but our dhimmi police advised them not to show it because it might inflame "racial tensions". It's funny isn't it that no Tv channel has qualms about raising racial tensions against white people (i.e. the BBC "expose" of The BNP) but when it comes to our Muslim friends they can never be shown in a bad light.
"Smile at us, pay us, pass us by
But never do forget,
We are the voice of England that hasn't spoken yet"
I remember reading in the Times , seven or eight years ago , about a British boy's school team who played a cricket tour of Pakistan. At several matches the British boys fielding near the boundry had stones and mud thrown at them. When they asked the Pakistani boy spectators why they were doing this they got the reply "Because you are Infidels".
Son of Albion,
My sentiments exactly, then the public get on at New Labour for not reducing the crime rate, theirs Bob Hope of that happening while theirs a whole generation of youngsters dedicating their lives to drugs.
It's a really sad state of affairs, and your "grooming" comment prooves how muslims view women, like animals!!!
Son of Infidel
First, the oil producing Arab nations have no alternative but to see their oil, just to survive. Second, oil from Arab lands is not the only source, as it was in the seventies.
And even if the Arab world would rather starve then sell the oil, then we have the option of seizing the oil fields under the reason of economic necessity. It is perfectly legal in International law.
As for Pakistan and its nukes. What exactly is Pakistan likely to do with them? It does not have enough to threaten India, USA and the other nuclear powers. Will it commit suicide? I do not think so.
It is said, that it is unwise to underestimate the enemy. The corollary of that is, it is also unwise to overestimate the enemy, and then use it as an excuse for pacifism.
Hugh,
I am all for cutting the Muslim world loose to fend for themselves.They hate the west so much let them get along without western science, medicine, economic aid and technology. This is one reason I support Isreal's withdrawal from Gaza.Insolent Palestinian "leaders" are already saying they will need tens of billions in
aid from the US and they apparently expect the US to strong arm the EU into giving them aid. And these are people who always side with the enemies of the US.The Arabs are not going to do anything for the Palestinians and corrupt and incompetent Palestinian leaders will turn Gaza into even more of a hell hole only this time Palestinians will have only themselves to blame.
About Bin Laden
I'm not so sure how accurate this article is about Bin Laden receiving "periodic" dialysis treatments. Bin Laden is diabetic. If a diabetic requires dialysis in his 40s that's a sign of someone who's non-complaint with his treatment and diet who's sugars are out of control. A non-complaint diabetic is also at risk for other diabetic complications such as diabetic coma, diabetic seizures, stroke, heart attack, blindness and amputation.Such a person would be in poor health with shortened life expectancy.
People also don't have "periodic" dialysis. If someone requires dialysis they have almost no renal function which means they need regular dialysis.In the US that means 2-3 times a week for 3-4 hours a day.Some patients who miss even one dialysis treatment are at risk for death from pulmonary edema or sudden cardiac arrest. Patient's also don't just get hooked up to a dialysis machine. Dialysis treatments are carefully prescribed by a physician who's a specialist in kidney disease.Dialysis also carries it's own risk with some patients developing unstable blood pressure and cardiac problems.
So the bottom line for me is while Pakistan might have known about 9/11 in advance, the claims about Bin Laden and dialysis I'm not so sure are true, that makes the rest of the article suspect.
Today is a great day found out about the curse on those who follow a persom who is YELLOW yes that is the followers of UBL and Arafat!!!
And Kerry booed at baseball game yes he throws like a girli man??
Just made my day and yesrerday in Ohio lots of Bush signs at his speech great!!
I love America!!!
UBL is a coward! Why has he not shown his face since Tora-bora? Yes because he is Yellow!! Like Arafat look at his hands and we know those who follow these people will be cursed!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with them give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
The 9/11 commission report gives the appearance of a beginning of getting informed. It's mind boggling that it took three years and a commission to begin to begin. And now what is really frightening is that our Congress wants to begin to begin to take some serious action.
Posted by: mrpianomansmom at July 25, 2004 02:24 PM
..........as soon as they get back from a 6 week vacation.
I'm surprised they didn't vote themselves a raise before they packed up. I wonder how many had all expense paid vacations to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia? Or if they know Congress is a likely target within the next 6 weeks. Timing is everything.