The Philippines' Appeaser-in-Chief summons up some courage -- to direct at critics. From AFP:
Arroyo brushed off US criticism that she had played into the hands of militants and said she had no regrets about her decision."It won't take more than three lines to summarise my case, and let me say them. One, I take responsibility. Two, I make no apologies. Three, I stuck to my oath," she said....
Analysts said Arroyo had decided to act to avoid angering the estimated seven million Filipinos working abroad, a formidable constituency whose billions of dollars of remittances keep the economy afloat.
"I trust that our allies will come to understand that the Philippines is in a special circumstance unlike the US, Australia, Bulgaria and other countries," Arroyo said, referring to other countries with troops in Iraq.
US Secretary of State Colin Powell on Thursday added to previous US criticism of the troop withdrawal saying that "in effect the kidnappers were rewarded for kidnapping."
"We were very disappointed in the actions of the Philippine government," he said.
"I'm pleased that the Filipino gentleman was returned home safely, but I think a very high price was paid for the policy position that the Philippine government took."
In his reaction, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Wednesday that "weakness is provocative."
"I trust that our allies will come to understand that the Philippines is in a special circumstance unlike the US, Australia, Bulgaria and other countries," Arroyo said, referring to other countries with troops in Iraq.
Why are they special?
I like what Rumsfeld said
In his reaction, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Wednesday that "weakness is provocative."
Love my coffe cup?
This is more the truth! Seams that their building fell anyway?
Why don't we pull our men who are helping these people fight the terrorist on their soil out so they don't get hurt?
What a bunch of sissys and if your are a phillipeno you should hang your head in shame!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Cowards are always ready with an excuse.
The people of the Philippines will pay a dear price in blood for their government's cowardice as the Abu Sayyaf is already emboldened by the sight of the backsides of the retreating Philippine army in Iraq. I still maintain that saving the life of one truck driver in Iraq will cost the lives of thousands at the hands of the Philippino jihadists.
The Philippines are merely acknowledging reality. The Phillipine Islands are historically Muslim land. The genocidal American invasion and fifty-year occupation set up Christian rule in some of the islands, but the Muslims in the southern reaches of the island chain continued to resist. In recent years the struggle has gone well for the brave Phillipine freedom fighters, and the country soon will become again an Islamic state.
Allahu akbar
When does the past -- even the recent past -- cease to matter? Does the Bataan March ring any bells in the Philippines? Did the United States do anything, between 1941 and 1945, that might, just might, inspire some gratitude on the part of Gloria Arroyo Macapagal? Does she believe that things will improve in the Moro Islands? Fewer decapitations of captured tourists and missionaries and local Christians? Has she heard about Islamic triumphalism, whereby any victory, or even perceived, if mythic victory (Arafat's "heroic victory" at Karama, which was largely a battle fought by the regular Jordanian army, and in any case ended not with Israeli defeat, but rather withdrawal once the mission of inflicting punishment had been achieved; the "Egyptian victory" over the Israelis at the Suez Canal, which is to say the Americans prevented Ariel Sharon's forces from destroying entirely the Egyptian Third Army, which they had encircled; the "victory of the mighty Arabs" at Falluja -- which is to say, in order to minimize American casualties, the marines were told they had to stop in mid-career. and pull back at least temporarily, just as they were on the brink of destroying the enemy forces in Falluja, in order to see if local forces could do the job (they couldn't) leads not to a lessening of aggression and compromise, but increased demands on the Infidels.
Perhaps there is one other factor here. The Philippines is a large supplier of nurses and domestic labor to Saudi Arabia. Having talked to quite a number of Filipinos who survived the ordeal (nurses in particular), I can testify as to the barbaric treatment many of them receive at the hands of Saudi employers. While some parts of the Filipino press report on this, the Filipino government does not protect its own population (nor do the governments of many Asian countries which supply workers to the Saudis) by protesting, even when there are murders and suicides of miserable Filipinas. They do not wish to do anything to cramp the style of the Saudis, for fear that an important source of revenues, the remittances from these workers, will dry up.
But while this may help to explain the cravenness (quoth the Arroyo raven: evermore), it does not justify it.
Watch the Moro Islands. See what happens. Peace on earth? Good will to men? Or something else?
President Arroyo was treated to a state dinner not too long ago which is a rare honor in the US,which makes her caving in to terrorists even more surprising.In the grand scheme of things the 51 troops from the Phillipines aren't going to be missed anyway.However her message of appeasement projected weakness to islamofascists who are so beaten down even the smallest victory looks great to them.The immediate result of her appeasement was more hostage taking by emboldened terrorists. I would also suspect Fillipinos aren't going to be save traveling in the ME.
Phillipine freedom fighters, and the country soon will become again an Islamic state.
Allahu akbar
Posted by: Reza at July 23, 2004 01:24 PM
Did not h. clinton take away our practice bombing range? for the Navy Maybe it is time to have a new bombing Range like she said they are specielal??? After all we have a new ship the R.R. and it is not run on gas? we need to have some tests??
This will help us work on our minni nukes and the MOABs and take care of their problem at the same time?
Have some art work to do today have fun people?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
I thought that the entire world was initially Muslim land? That's the trouble with this outlandish brood. They think if they've stepped one of their sand in the toenails feet on any land, that it belongs to them.
They're so stupid they're humorous. Raisin, perhaps you should consider becoming a teacher for the your idiot brotherhood. They're stuck in a gigantic pool of illiteracy.
Yet, they think they can bomb their way into dominance. Muslims have got to be the absolute most ifnorant people on the face of GOD's green earth.
Islam? DumDum is more like it. Soon you will all be penned up like you should've been hundreds of years ago. As you can see, Raisin, the caging of senseless Muslims is already beginning in Israel.
Sorry piglets, but if you can't behave, you'll be confined to your play pens......
Correction: Ignorant.
Reza, may you obtain as much mercy from anti-Muslim armies as you wish on the rest of us! Islam is a cult of bloodthirsty, oversexed men, longing for the delights of whoring in the afterlife. Its followers deserve every ounce of scorn that we can muster.
Ms. Arryou's is obviously more concerned about the Filipino nationals working abroad than with the detrimential consequences of her capitulation to the Islamo-Fascists.
Her actions have only emboldened the enemy.
Ineffect she has endangered the lives of many more innocent people and these people will certianly become the new victims of the Islamo -terrorists.
Her arrogance towards the United States is a disgraceful.
During World War II, it was the Americans as well as the British and Australians that routed the Japanese from the Philippine Islands.
In fact, it was the famous American General, Douglas MacArthur that said to the Philippino people," I shall return". and he did!
The Philippino people will unfortunately suffer for the irresponsible and dangerous actions of their Goverment as the malignant cancer of Islam metastasizes to their country.
We need more glass.
Islam is a cult of bloodthirsty, oversexed men, longing for the delights of whoring in the afterlife.
Posted by: NoMoreJihad at July 23, 2004 01:59 PM
Alright, I'll remind all of us again, Donkeys do not count!
everyone,
I feel that this post will ultimately be erased, but I have had enough. I just took a trip through so-called peaceful gulf muslim countries and the predominate feeling is that most people are happy that the Philippines and others left, most are proud of the kidnappings and beheadings, there is profound glee at the situation in Dafur, and contrary to what I read and hear in the mainstream press, not one stinking muslim leader has come out and condemned these acts nor any other heinous muslim practices. After living my whole live in the middle east, and my continuous travels, I have one and only one thing to say (most will be disturbed)
The most beautiful image I will ever see is FOR A HIGHJACKED AIRPLANE SMASHING INTO THE MOSQUE AND KHABBA IN MECCA DURING THE HAJ.
Oikonomakis,
I understand your anger and frustration.
The myth of the "alleged" modorate muslims is just that a myth.
The Islamo-fascists that are not partcipating in the "Jihad",are as you stated, sympathetic and supportive to their cause.
Most of the Muslims her in the States have the same mentality.
It's time to take off the gloves, throw the rule book out the window and flush the pc liberal waste down the toilet.
If we are going to win the war against the Islaom-fascists, we had better develope the stomach, the strengh and the resolve to wipe this scourge from the face of the earth.
"LEAD ME, FOLLOW ME, OR GET OUT OF MY WAY"
George S. Patton, General (1885-1945)
REZA My little Iranian Lemming
Expect you're being paid by the Saudis to spread
Wanhabeism. Or is it Wantotakeovereverycountryonearth?? Too bad about the brothers being potted like rabbits[Allah knows they breed like them] but there's nothing like a good slaughter and offering of 'fragrant blood' to please Allah is there??Think Filopinos
should invite Papuans suffering under Muslim attacks to help them. These angry non Muslim warriors have some delighful ideas on how to make
'pigs' squeal all the way to that last gasp to Paradise...Have a nice day.
Oikonomakis,
I have a much more beautiful image of the Kabba.
It is worn down by blowing sand, covered in dust and vines. An elderly man leads a tour for a busload of Saudi Christian schoolchildren, teaching them about a largely forgotten religion that disappeared once people of the world truly discovered what it really was.
After the tour the children will stop at the gift shop on the site and buy a fragment of small fragment of black rock for a dollar. They’ll then go to McDonalds, and have bacon cheeseburgers for lunch.
Isn't peace beautiful?
Your children will be flipping burgers at the Mecca Mickey Ds
And then they'll go back to the school of redundency school. Sorry about that...
Factory in Salt Lake City on Fire ?
They are going after the strong? and lets not forget that is where our Marines family lives?
Yes ck your ammo!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Bob,
Another possibilty for Mecca, raze it to the ground ie. DASIY CUTTERS and MOAB'S, then build amusement parks.
Their grand childern will be cleaning toilets at Disneyland in the Arabian Peninusla
Sorry, typo
should be grandchildern
Wow Germany raids 15 mosqse?
Looks like razas friends will be out for awhile?
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Weakness is provocative.
Well put.
Arroyo shows weakness today, but islamists
would be making a major mistake to expect
the same reaction from her in other situations.
Arroyo is well aware that islamists pose a grave
threat to the stability of her country, as indeed they do to the civilized world, and i would expect her to be onside in most instances.
My definition of 'civilized' includes virtually all the world except the islamic part. And i know that a percentage of the islamic part would like to be in the civilized world, but they will have to fight the radical islamists who are setting the agenda in their culture, and, i suspect, they may have to fight islam itself; that particular ideology being so poisonous, so toxic, that it has no place on this planet.
The Philippines is NOT historically an Islamic country. It is historically animist. In fact, no country in the world is historically Islamic only OCCUPIED by Muslims. And the sooner the MUSLIM OCCUPATION of the world ends, the better. No Islam, KNOW PEACE.
But now that the people of the Philippines have blinked, they need to be prepared to live a life of slavery under Islam which will include daily terror and death as is the practice of Islam. She has sold her people into the hands of Islamic slavers.
Now terrorists have taken an Egyptian dipolmat hostage as they become increasingly desperate as Iraq moves toward democracy and stability. Their demands have become even more ridiculous. Can they really believe that the Kuwaiti company will compensate the families of terrorists killed in Fallujah. Or that the US will release all detainees? It seems in the ME you simply take a hostage muslim, infidel doesn't matter and that makes you a power player, how pathetic.When the world needs an enema the tip in placed in the Middle East.
Egyptian Diplomat Taken Hostage in Iraq
By PAUL GARWOOD
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Militants in Iraq took an Egyptian diplomat hostage Friday and demanded his country forsake any plans it had to send security experts here, according to a video broadcast Friday on the Al-Jazeera television station.
The station also showed a separate videotape from another militant group which abducted seven foreign truck drivers, who issued new demands for the company to compensate the families of those killed in battles with U.S. forces in Fallujah. The company was given 48 hours to comply.
Earlier Friday, U.S. forces launched a "precision attack" against a suspected gathering of insurgents outside a house in Fallujah, wounding five civilians, while a roadside bomb killed two American soldiers near Samarra, the U.S. military said.
An Egyptian diplomat in Baghdad, who declined to be identified, confirmed that Mohammed Mamdouh Helmi Qutb was abducted Friday. The diplomat said Qutb was taken while leaving a mosque.
The videotape show Qutb sitting in front of six masked kidnappers. They were clad in black hoods and robes, with white headbands. One was holding an assault rifle and another had a pistol on his hip.
The group, which called itself the "Lions of Allah Brigade," said it abducted Qutb because the Egyptian government said it was prepared to deploy security experts to help the interim government in Iraq.
The video was inaudible, but the Al-Jazeera newscaster paraphrased it. No specific threat against Qutb, who was wearing a pale, open-necked shirt, was mentioned.
Qutb, who said he was being treated well, added that the Egyptian mission in Baghdad was not cooperating with the U.S.-led multinational force and was only trying to help rebuild Iraq, the newscaster said.
Egypt has offered to train Iraqi police and security personnel in Egypt, but it has declined to deploy military forces in Iraq.
Egypt has a diplomatic mission and a charge d'affairs in Baghdad. It has not yet restored relations with Iraq at the ambassadorial level.
At Al-Jazeera's head office in Qatar, a producer said the station received the tape Friday from its Baghdad bureau.
On the second videotape, the militant group calling itself "The Holders of the Black Banners" also demanded the release of Iraqi detainees in Kuwaiti and U.S. prisons.
In an announcement Wednesday, the group said it would behead one captive every 72 hours beginning Saturday night if the Kuwaiti trucking company they work for did not stop doing business in Iraq and their countries did not pull their citizens out of the country.
In the new tape, a masked man stood behind the seven hostages - an Egyptian, three Kenyans and three Indians - and read a statement, with a black banner bearing Quranic verses and the name of the group on the wall behind him.
The U.S. attack, like several other recent strikes in Fallujah, was conducted in coordination with the Iraqi government, and it targeted 10-12 terrorists linked to Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the military said.
Al-Zarqawi has claimed responsibility for a series of car bombings and beheadings of foreigners in Iraq in recent months.
"We have nothing to do with the resistance or al-Zarqawi," Saddam Jassim said as he and his brother cleared debris. "These are pretexts used by the U.S. military to terrorize the people in Fallujah because U.S. soldiers are unable to face the insurgents."
Marines pulled back from Fallujah - a focal point of resistance - after besieging it for three weeks in April. Since then, the military has used missile attacks and airstrikes against potential targets, and Friday's strike was the seventh in about a month.
The roadside bombing south of Samarra that killed the two Americans also wounded one soldier, a military official said on condition of anonymity. The city 60 miles north of Baghdad was the scene of battles this week that killed four Iraqis and wounded five.
The American deaths raised the U.S. toll in Iraq since the beginning of the war to 902, according to an Associated Press count. Iraq has been wracked by a 15-month-long insurgency that has used car bombings, sabotage, kidnappings and other violence to try to drive out coalition forces and hamper reconstruction efforts.
Iraq's interim prime minister urged Syria to work more closely with his government, saying during a visit there Friday that it was time for "a new stage of honest and brotherly cooperation."
Syria, which strongly opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, has greeted Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's government with suspicion, questioning whether it is a U.S. puppet regime. Yet Syria was long a haven for Iraqis opposed to Saddam.
Also, firebrand Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who led an uprising against U.S. forces, condemned militants who have beheaded foreigners in recent months - two days after a decapitated body was found on the banks of the Tigris, accompanied by a severed head in a bag.
"Anybody doing this is a criminal and we will punish him according to Islamic law," al-Sadr said.
The military also said a van carrying Iraqi civilians collided with a U.S. tank Thursday night near Baghdad, killing nine people and injuring 10 - all civilians. Iraqis said 18 people were injured and all the dead, including one child, were from the same family, which was returning to Baghdad from a wedding party in Tarmiyah, 30 miles to the north.
Another crash Friday between an armored vehicle and a car in Baqouba injured two Iraqis, who received medical treatment at a nearby coalition base, U.S. 1st Infantry Division spokesman Maj. Neal O'Brien said.
Baqouba police Lt. Ahmed Sadiq said the crash killed two people and wounded three. The discrepancy could not immediately be resolved.
A roadside bomb Friday wounded a bus driver and eight passengers - including a pregnant woman and two children - in Baghdad's northern suburb of Toubechi, police Lt. Rajab Saleh said. The bus driver ignored police warnings not to enter the area, he said.
Hey, just a little insight into Arroyo and her thinking. She's like every typical western politician who wants to hold onto power in the face of common sense and national survival against the Jis. Her election was disputed and she is afraid that if Filipinos come home looking like an 18th century French noble, then she'll be thrown out of office in a coup.
Now, my fiancee's friend is a relative of the guy who was taken hostage. The friend did not agree with Arroyo's decision to bring home their troops, even tho doing so would mean the murder of her relative. So, the people there have more sense than Arroyo does. They need to elect someone who'll shove all the Ji's into the Pacific Ocean and be done with it. Maybe after another bombing or two.
Well, darn. I'd much rather argue against Reza than on his behalf but these posts are too much.
Obscene name calling and insults, pork jokes, mockery of holy places, and nuke 'em threats only tarnish, hurt, and split the very cause you are trying to help. They fulfil and justify all the bad things the radical Muslims say about Christians. They strengthen the Rezas of the world.
And they are just plain bad, in the moral sense. WWJD? He certainly wouldn't post messages like these.
Foremost among sinners,
Pilgrim
Pilgram,
"mockery of holy places"
If the above comment reffers to "Islam", then you have a lot to learn about this false and evil, "alleged" religion.
There is nothing "holy" about the Islamo-fascists.To the contray, they are as evil as Satan himself.
Please clarify your remarks so that we can discuss this futher.
PS, do you have a problem with Christians?
Pulling out 51 troups a few weeks early to save the life of one man is an act of mild cowadice but also of humanitarianism.
Followed by an offer to send more personel to Iraq, it would be an act of astute statesmenship.
Will that happen? let's hope so.
Remember that the Phlippines are far more exposed to jihad than the Spanish who acted in truly scandalously cowardly fashion after madrid.
Many thousands of phillipino slaves work in atrocious conditions throughout the ME, where they have no legal rights and can be raped, beaten or killed at the whim of their owners
(employers).
Reza
Once again you chose to ignore the reality that any claims to land other than the Arabian Peninsula is an expression of Islamic imperialism. Islam has been around a very short period of time, and much like a small child's narcissistic and grandiose claim that the world belongs to them, it doesn't. Grow up.
Son of Infidel,
It is good of you to ask questions to clarify things. Many people online don't take time to do that. Answers:
1) I *am* a Christian.
2) In this case I meant by "holy places" the places accounted most holy by the Muslims. I cheerfully amend my message to say "another's holy places" or "somebody else's holy places" instead of just "holy places," to indicate that I'm not referring just to places I myself consider holy.
Perhaps you could find something in my message that you agree with, perhaps that obscene personal insults are out of bounds.
Foremost among sinners,
Pilgrim
Thank you for the reply.
How do you define anything as "holy" that is associated with Islam?
Islam is a "false" and evil religion based on a doctrine of intolorance,hate and barbarity.
The "Muslims" have since the days of Mohammed been purportrating death and destruction aganist Christians, Jews, Hindus and all other non-believers, in the name of "Allah".
Possibly you need to educate yourself about this vile scourge.
In her pathetic spirit of appeasement, President Gloria Arroyo claims she knows how to deal with terrorists - it looks like her considered method is abject surrender. Fully aside from any gratitude owed by her people to the USA for liberating them from Imperial Japan in 1945, has she learnt NOTHING from her nation’s painful record of half a millennium’s struggle with brutal Moslem separatists in its southern islands, from Spanish and American colonial times unto today?
Ferdinand Magellan himself was slain there by heathen tribesmen in 1521, but Islam’d arrived in the Philippines slightly earlier than the Spaniards. Directly, it commenced killing and converting the native pagans of the south, extending the domain of the Sultan of Sabah, taking slaves.
So with the advent of the Spanish, the Filipinos who hadn’t yet been Islamized - still so far then a majority - thronged to adopt their Christianity, defensively, against the advancing Jihadis. This was especially so after the Conquistadores had advised the islanders about their own long history of pushing Islam back from their Peninsula and - more to the point - once they’d demonstrated the superiority of their arms, ships and tactics, in campaigns against the Moslems in Mindanao.
Though the Islamic portions of their Colony generally suffered hundreds of years of repression and severe neglect thereafter, the Spanish, however, did not initiate an “ethnic cleansing” there. Accordingly, the Jihadis of the south, NEVER accepting their historic reversal by the mid-1600s in the Philippines, have ignited over four centuries of repeated, cruel secessionist rebellions, unable to bear the “indignity” of Infidel rule (and ALWAYS seeking extra, forward bases from which to conduct their “Mission” of expansionism into the dar el-harb, till its total subjection).
There are several Islamist terror-outfits rampaging in the southern Philippines now, including el-Qaeda and Jemaa Islamia henchman, the Abu Sayaf Group. If the myopic Mrs Arroyo’s counting on her appeasement in Iraq to assist her in any way with these murderers, she’s got it SO wrong.
Indeed, it’s tragically predictable that Abu Sayaf, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front and all their fanatical ilk in her country will, indubitably, gain in boldness from their perception of the Central Government as soft, increasing their violence to extort further extractions from Manila!
WWJD....its what he did...he warned about the "false prophet" aka mohammad...thats one of the things Jesus did for us...now its time to listen.
Son of Infidel,
What I have been trying to say is that it is neither Christ-like nor effective to mock places considered holy by people of other religions. Much better is the approach used by Paul in Athens, who used a pagan shrine as an example of what he and the Athenians had in common, and as a starting point for conversion:
--
Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you." (Acts 17:22-23, NIV)
--
Certainly Paul deemed their religion false, and Paul was no wimp, and "he was greatly distressed to see that the city [Athens] was full of idols." (Acts 17:16) But he used the pagan shrine as a launching point for conversion.
Foremost among sinners,
Pilgrim
PS..when muslims stockpile mosques with weapons and use them as hideouts to shoot at soldiers, those building cease to be anything 'holy' they are now military targets...and let us not forget how the muslims treated one of the holiest chruches in Christianity in Bethlehem...they defiled it, used it as a toilet, destroyed priceless artifacts, used the Holy Bibles as toilet paper...and please do not insult me by saying "this was just a few muslims"...no muslim has any use or respect for any other religion...period.
USAgirl,
The occupation and desecration of the Church of the Holy Nativity was horrible. During the occupation I found a picture of the church's interior as it was before the occupation and I made it my computer wallpaper. I just looked at the picture again after reading your message.
What kinds of guidance, if any, does the New Testament give us on how to respond, as Christians, to an outrage like this against a Christian holy place?
Pilgrim
The New Testament tells us to expose evil, to expose it to the light of day. That's what we do here.
"insults"
Probably venting.
"pork jokes"
I personally see nothing wrong with pork jokes. It's a funny, in-group way of pointing out the fallacy of Islam. It's not meant to be evangelism.
"mockery of holy places" and
I don't see anything wrong with exposing so-called "holy places" as the frauds that they are.
"nuke 'em threats"
Definitely venting there.
"They fulfil and justify all the bad things the radical Muslims say about Christians."
Who cares? Radical Muslims are pathological liars. They have been lieing for years and will continue to lie regardless of what goes on here.
"And they are just plain bad, in the moral sense. WWJD? He certainly wouldn't post messages like these."
If you're asking what would Jesus do, He might very well use strong language to reproof people. Recall that He called the Pharisees a "brood of vipers." Now, what would Jesus have us do is another matter!
~NMJ
2) In this case I meant by "holy places" the places accounted most holy by the Muslims. I cheerfully amend my message to say "another's holy places" or "somebody else's holy places" instead of just "holy places," to indicate that I'm not referring just to places I myself consider holy.
Perhaps you could find something in my message that you agree with, perhaps that obscene personal insults are out of bounds.
Foremost among sinners,
Pilgrim
Posted by: Pilgrim at July 24, 2004 12:54 PM
WHAT A FOOL YOU ARE!
Remember Mt. Conciso yes we flaten it and won WW2 sometimes you have to do what you have to do to win!!!
Don't be such a wimp!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Wisdom,Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
NMJ,
Thanks for your low-key response in detail to my original post.
You brought up the harsh words Jesus used against the Pharisees and Scribes. You might also want to bring up his knocking over the tables of the money changers in the temple. And the multiple "woe to you, Pharisees and Scribes" passages. Certainly Jesus was no wimp and at one point he says "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." (Mt 10:34)
So we can agree Jesus wasn't a wimp and he was quite ready sometimes to use harsh language and even physical force.
Who did he use harsh language against? The idolator Romans who had conquered his homeland? No -- against members of his own faith and lineage. The "brood of vipers" passage you quote is this: "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out the evil treasure brings forth evil things. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." (Mt 12:34-37)
"Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you." (Lk 6:27-28) "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners [and, I might add, Muslims] love those who love them." (Lk 6:32)
Now obviously all this Scripture stuff isn't really binding on folks who aren't Christians. And it doesn't mean, contrary to what people may think, that the only choices are dhimmitude and hatred. But it does mean, I think, that for the follower of Christ, spiteful threats and obscene personal insults are out of bounds.
I think the best Gospel shot at justifying harsh words against the Muslims and others is the passage just before the "brood of vipers" one, about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Maybe you know of another passage or two and can tell me.
Pilgrim
Catherine,
Thanks for noticing my post and taking time to reply to it.
All I was saying in the sentence you quote is that I think it is almost always wrong to make fun of or threaten places that people of another religion (Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, Judaism, whatever) consider to be holy. As I said in an earlier reply, that doesn't mean that I personally think the Muslim or Buddhist or whatever site is holy. I am just recognizing that those other people consider it holy, and I believe that speaking against it is especially rude and mean spirited.
You say I am a fool. Thank you. I *am* a fool, or I try to be; I am definitely a sinner. I won't bore you with the Bible references.
As to my positions on the war in Iraq or on the war on terror or on World War II, you haven't a clue. I haven't said, and you haven't asked. I have been talking about the comments that individual people posted here in this thread in Jihad Watch. I haven't said word one about those other things.
a fool and sinner,
Pilgrim