The ICB is mainly upset because these kuffar try to get Muslims to vote and otherwise participate in British society. But it gets worse: like John Esposito, they label Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi as a moderate, despite his support for suicide bombings against civilians. From the ICB site, with thanks to nevermindlv:
When Allaah (swt) speaks about munaafiqeen (hypocrites) or murtaddeen (apostates – those who used to be Muslim then became kaafir), he often describes them in a state where they themselves believe they are Muslims, while in actual fact they are kuffaar (disbelievers in Islaam). Allaah (swt) says in the Qur’aan:يُخَادِعُونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلا أَنْفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ
“They (think to) deceive Allaah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!” (EMQ Al-Baqarah, 2: 9)The apostates and hypocrites seek to deceive Allaah and the believers (sincere Muslims); while in actual fact they are deceiving none but themselves. The hypocrites and apostates wish for other Muslims to follow their satanic path to hell-fire and wish that people become kaafir like them.
وَدُّوا لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُوا فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاءً فَلا تَتَّخِذُوا مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءَ حَتَّى يُهَاجِرُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدْتُمُوهُمْ وَلا تَتَّخِذُوا مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلا نَصِيرًا
“They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliyaa' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allaah. But if they turn back (from Islaam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliyaa' nor helpers from them.” (EMQ An-Nisaa’, 4: 89)
So who are these kuffaar that claim to be Muslims? Who are these people Allaah (swt) informs us of, who want us to reject eemaan and Islaam in order to become equal, humiliated and degraded like them? Who are these people whom Allaah (swt) has ordered us not to support, help, befriend, love and protect? The answer is very clear from the verse above – those who commit kufr and shirk and order others to do so. It is those who claim to be Muslims yet they tell us to become kaafir by voting for man-made law and the kuffaar, become MP’s, join the police force and the army of Taaghout (non-Muslims) and claim that Jews, Christians and Muslims are all the same and are a single brotherhood…a’oudhu billaah!
These apostates are cursed by almighty Allaah (swt), are destined for eternal torture in the hereafter and are the cause of fitnah and corruption among the Muslims. The apostates that Allaah describes in the above verses are people like Yousuf Al-Qaradaawi, Hamzah Yousuf, Inaayat Bunglawala, Lord Khanzeer Ahmad and all the rulers of Muslim lands. These people are all subservient to the kuffaar and hence have left the fold of Islaam after being guided to the deen of Islaam. In the time of the Prophet (saw) people like these were fought against and killed by the Sahaabah (companions of the Prophet). However, in our sad time of humiliation and weakness, these kuffaar are praised and shown as role models for Muslims to follow. They are even given titles such as ‘Imaam’ or ‘the world’s most renowned scholar of Islaam’!!
These people are kaafir for their allegiance with the non-Muslims, praising them and claiming that they are equal to Muslims. They have on numerous occasions come on TV and public platforms calling Muslims to become part of the army, police and intelligence of the kuffaar – the enemies of Allaah.
It is haraam (prohibited) and could lead to apostasy to attend their talks, lectures, debates or discussions. ...
We must stand by the true scholars of Islaam who are either behind bars or labelled as extremists or terrorists and work collective in a jamaa’ah (collective body) to rid the earth from our kaafir apostate rulers (and those who support them) and their oppressive regimes and implement the sharee’ah, as a matter of obligation and Tawheed.
What exactly is the Islamic Council of Britain? How does it differ from the Muslim Council of Britain, the Muslim Association of Britain, the Muslim Parliament?
Yes, I'm too lazy to look them all up - off to a Summer concert on Hampstead Heath. But my point is, who speaks for Muslims in the UK? I think they should be regulated like in Singapore, or have charitable status (as a religion) stripped away so that they are a political party, who must try their luck at the ballot box like others, and have no special protection at law.
The points being made by the 'ICB', as well as being wrong and off the wall, are political not religious.
Isn't this incitement to religious hatred of moderate Muslims?
How come the UK police aren't paying a call to the author of this drivel?
Too busy harassing Rev. Alan Clifford?
Do you not understand that you cannot impose your Western idolatries of "democracy" and "voting" on the Muslims? It is known by everyone that Allah (swt) is the only legislator, and that the only acceptable law and system of government is the Sharia.
Here is a short release by one of the most influential Islamic organizations in Great Britain. It describes the peaceful transformation of Britain into an Islamic state and contains some examples of what that society will look like after the current corrupt and unjust man-made laws are replaced by Sharia. It is clear that this result will be welcomed by all decent people, both Muslims and unbelievers alike.
Your grandchildren will be Muslim.
Allahu akbar
Guess if your not some crazy, dress wearing freak who has nothing better to do all day than plan the deaths of people you have never met and have never harmed you in any way all to please a black rock (is that where the pet rock craze of the 70s came from??) then you are just not welcome in their little club...but who wants to be associated with that club anyhow...they are becoming less welcome and wanted than a leper colony...in fact I'd rather have a leper colony spring up next door than a mosque.
If Reza does not like democracy, that is her affair. If her society attempts to forcefully impose sharia on the West, then the West will have no choice but to impose reform on Islam and the Middle East
Your grandchildren may be apostates.
Geoff
Thanks also to Reza for posting the link. It is useful for people to see what sort of evil islam plans for the world.
I witness that there is no Allah and Mohammed was the messenger of no one.
Geoff
Reza:
...the peaceful transformation of Britain into an Islamic state and contains some examples of what that society will look like after the current corrupt and unjust man-made laws are replaced by Sharia.
If you honestly believe that anything like that could ever be imposed on Britain (or any other Western nation) "peacefully," then I suggest having yourself committed to the nearest mental institution.
The only possible outcome of such an attempt is the utter, total removal of Islam and its followers from the planet.
Reza, Put a sock in it! Muslim hate speech is allowed while protesting Christians are labeled bigots, racists, and worse. This is an example of PERSECUTION of Christians while Muslims are becoming an PROTECTED GROUP in Britain, while the famous British fair play goes down the drain.
Hello thought police. Isn't Sharia an example of a thought police action? Maybe that's why Reza doesn't have an original thought in his/her, its head.
Reza I have just seen a documentary about the past war in Chechenia. I have enjoyed the way that Russians smashed them. And the climax came when the brave muslims surrendered like hens and were forced to stay on their knees.
Maybe Alla has forgotten you. JA JA JA
REZA OUR RESIDENT MOONBAT
WOW! Coming out of your cave a lot,aren't you??
Recognise the propaganda from my favourite bunch of nutters - Al Margarine.As they only have an estimated 6 - 8oo followers in all of the U.K, think you'll be working overtime,SWEETIE. So you're one of 'em!! A Militant Margarinest...Cor
blimey, me ole cock sparrer [in your case 'hen].
We will be quaking in our computers. Ha Ha!! Try taking pubs away from Brits and you'll see some true examples of BERSERKER FURY - they'll slaughter
everything in sight. As for making them speak another language -Arabic-, Honey you've got to be
joking...Thanks for laughs though.
Islamic Council of Britain. Hmmm
It is clear that these people do not wish to be part of Britain. So why on earth do they stay here in Britain or the West. Is it for the social security? If so, then Muslims are just our dhimmis. Worse, they survive on our charity.
The other reason that they stay here,surviving on social security, is breeding and hoping for the Kingdom of Islam to come.
But Reza and other Muslims should know that Islam is never going to be part of the West. Islam is like a pet that we have taken on, feeding it from our table and tolerating it, even when it soils the carpet and occasionally bites us. Sooner or later though, if this pet does no behave itself, we will have no alternative but to put it down; needless to say, humanely.
Reza is taking the mickey. Don'tcha know by now?! A clever troll - may be the same person as Aisha on Little Green Footballs.
Don't understand how anyone thinks he/she/it is for real. No sense of irony, maybe. You American or something?!
No, Reza is not taking the mickey.
When Hitler wrote out his plans in Mein Kampf, he outlined exactly what he planned to do with the Jews. No-one took him seriously. And it's because no-one took him seriously that he was able to implement his plans.
PLEASE TAKE THESE PEOPLE SERIOUSLY.
And remember, once Islamic countries were christian countries, and would have remained so except for Islam.
So please take what these bastards say seriously, because they mean what they say.
Do you not understand that you cannot impose your Western idolatries of "democracy" and "voting" on the Muslims?
Posted by: Reza at August 7, 2004 12:33 PM
Oh yes we can, and oh yes we will. There's nothing you can do about it either, troll. Your way of life is soon to change. How does that feel?
By the way, Raisin.
Your granddaughters will make stag films.
DC, that last comment is disgusting.
Could we please have a few standards on this website?
I meant when of age......Anyway, yes, your right. That is a frightening thought. My apologies.
Reza is not for real. Some of these clowns are. We need to distinguish the two, rather than trying to knock down a false Aunt Sally.
The Islamic Getsapo, AKA Islamic council of Britain is obviously concerned that there is not enough, hate, murder, prejudism, Jihadism, racism, bigotry, call to wars, incitement to violence, misoginy, subversion and the like preached by some local Mosques and because of this the concern that the Gestapo has is that, Allah may become restless and become......er...uhm.....angry...oh..sorry....angrier than he usualy is.
Voltarie,
Where's your sense of humor.
DC, thats hilarious!
So, people of a particular society are ridiculed, demonized, called "unfaithful" and "traitorous" because they are calling for moderation? For calling for some kind of modern, secular reformation for the religious, backwards prevalance?
People who dare to make such requests are threatened, accused of hating their culture, of hating their fellow adherents?
WOW... doesn't that sound a little familiar to any of you? (Hint: think "Dixie Chicks, Mike Moore, et al.").
Okay, now tell me how unfaithful and traitorous I am, how I hate America, and hate Americans. And tell me how much better you are.
And if you have time, could you please respond to a question I have asked here many times regarding Muslim tomfoolery in England. What about those thousands and thousands of quasi-nazi, racists, skin-head soccer hooligans we hear so much about? Don't any of them live in London? We don't they "see to" the crazy mullahs, immams, etc.? Are they too busy complaining about Hindus, blacks, etc. like America's own cowardly KKK?
DC,
It IS hilarious. Wish I'd thought of it....
How can that simple joke be more disgusting than the various dismemberments perpetrated on Infidels? How can it be more disgusting than the threats Reza metes out every day? Is is more disgusting than the threat that your grandchildren will be muslims? That your female relatives can be circumcized so they will never experience pleasure in the sex act, that only men can have pleasure? Then these female descendents of yours can beaten, raped and killed for laughing?
When we lose our humor, the Ayatollahs win. There's no freaking fun in Islam. There's no LIFE in Islam.
I'd rather see a woman having an orgasm than see her having a bullet put thru her head in a soccer stadium any damn day of the week.
Whistling Dixie:
'When we lose our humor, the Ayatollahs win. '
Too true.
Muslim jokes:
Q) Why do Muslms carry sandpaper?
A) To be prepared, you should always carry a map
Q) Why are Muslims unwelcome in hotels?
A) Because they always steal the towels.
Q) When does A Muslim boy become a Man?
A) When the diaper goes from his ass to his head.
Q) What did the Muslim boy say about his dad?
A) "I wanna be just like Daddy when I blowup"
On my flight to New York there must have been a Jew in the bathroom the entire time. There was a sign on the door that said "occupied."
What do you say to a Muslim woman with two black eyes? Nothing! You told her twice already!
How many Muslims does it take to change a light bulb. None! They sit in the dark forever and blame the Jews for it!
Did you hear about the Broadway play, 'The Palestinians'? It bombed!
What do you call a first-time offender in Saudi Arabia? Lefty!
Did you hear about the Muslim strip club? It features full facial nudity!
Why do Palestinians find it convenient to live on the West Bank? Because it's just a stone's throw from Israel!
Why are Palestinian boys luckier than American boys? Because every Palestinian boy will get to join a rock group
A small plane carrying Yassir Arafat and all his top lieutenants crashes and all aboard are killed. Who is saved? The Palestinian people!
Two Israelis are in an elevator when the doors open and a Palestinian gets on. After the doors close, the Palestinian lets out a huge, noisy fart. The doors open again and the Palestinian gets off. One Jew looks at the other, wipes his brow and says, "Thank God! Must have been a dud!"
What does the sign say above the nursery in a Palestinian maternity ward? "Live ammunition."
A Palestinian girl says to her mommy, "After Abdul blows up, can I have his room?"
Jewish jokes:
http://www.awordinyoureye.com
Hundreds and hundreds - take your pick.
KJ:
Did you see this article that I have posted on other threads? It really gets to the nub of the censorship battle. Oh, and by the way, you had better read the Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown, KJ.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1258540,00.html
Without prejudice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speech impediments
Blunkett could soon be putting a curb on free expression. And we've only ourselves to blame
Nick Cohen
Sunday July 11, 2004
The Observer
In Adelaide, Judge Michael Higgins has spent the best part of a year wrestling with the crime of incitement to religious hatred which David Blunkett wishes to put on the British statute book. It's the first case of its kind in Australia and whatever happens Higgins is assured a place in legal history. But the prospect of recognition by his peers hasn't made the experience of trying to reconcile the mutually incompatible claims of fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity any less wretched.
The poor man sounded at the end of his tether when he begged the parties, the Islamic Council of Victoria and Catch the Fire Ministries, to leave him alone and settle their dispute amicably
'This case, quite frankly is getting out of control,' he cried. 'Is there any point in giving you half an hour to explore the possibility of mediation?' There wasn't. Although lawyers for both sides said that in normal circumstances their clients were civilised people who liked to keep grievances in proportion and reconcile differences amicably, the intolerable behaviour of the other side made reconciliation impossible. The judge said he hadn't seen anything to match their obduracy in his 19 years on the bench.
The Islamic Council has good reason to feel abused. Muslims members of the audience at a seminar for Catch the Fire, an evangelical Christian group which prays for Australia (someone must), heard that Daniel Scot described Muslims as terrorists and rapists who sanctioned the abuse of women and deceit in dealings with unbelievers. On his own admission, another pastor with the mission had put mosques in a list of 'strongholds of Satan' alongside brothels, off-licences and casinos. Yasser Soliman, the president of the Islamic Council, said Catch the Fire was whipping up a backlash against Australian Muslims after the 11 September and the Bali atrocities.
But then it turned out that Scot was drawing on personal experience. He is a Pakistani Christian who trained to be a maths lecturer. There was pressure on him to convert to Islam because university authorities said it was wrong for a Christian to have authority over Muslims. He refused and was charged under blasphemy laws, which carry a death sentence. 'The next day more than 5,000 students with pistols and daggers were searching for me. I was hidden in a church.' He fled to Australia in the 1980s.
Scot claimed he wasn't vilifying Islam, merely repeating received doctrines. Dr Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, political ally of Ken Livingstone, London's mayor and the new leader of its religious right, shows you can find priests who do indeed excuse wife battering as long as the husband 'beats her lightly with his hands, avoiding her face and other sensitive parts', the burning or stoning to death of men guilty of the 'abominable' crime of homosexuality and the rape of women who have opened 'the door for evils' by failing to 'maintain their modesty'.
Meanwhile, Catch the Fire could say with sincerity that it helped Muslim immigrants settle in Australia and found food, clothing and accommodation for them when they left transit camps.
The more he studied the evidence the more perplexed Judge Higgins became. He began by thinking the Christian ministers were guilty of inciting hatred, but at the same time as they were pouring scorn on Islam's tenets they were talking about the need to create a dialogue with Muslims. He was being asked to decide on the true message of holy books, a task beyond the power of most judges.
Not even the most strident supporter of limiting free speech could claim that the case had helped build a tolerant, multi-cultural Australia. The leaders of Catch the Fire received death threats and Muslim clerics and their lawyers were stalked. American born-again Christians and Saudi fundamentalists are watching the prosecution through narrowed eyes. Whatever the verdict, people who want to feel persecuted by the forces of the infidel will feel persecuted and become more convinced than ever that there was a giant conspiracy against their faith.
Amir Butler, executive director of the Australian Muslim Public Affairs Committee, was a supporter of laws against religious hatred but is disillusioned. 'At every major Islamic lecture I have attended since litigation began,' he said, 'there have been small groups of evangelical Christians, with notepads and pens, jotting down any comment that might later be used as evidence in the present case or presumably future cases.'
The evangelicals were mad and wanted to get even. But there was something more than that. Butler got to the heart of the difficulty of imposing censorship when he wrote in the Melbourne Age : 'If we believe our religion is the only way to heaven, then we must also affirm that all other paths lead to hell. If we believe our religion is true, then it requires us to believe others are false.'
Well, quite. To a devout Jew, what could be more hateful than Christianity's claims that Jesus was the son of God? To a devout Christian, what could be more hateful than Islam's claims that Jesus was only another prophet? To devout Jews, Christians, Muslims, and for that matter, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Jains, Bahais, Mormons and Moonies, what could be more hateful than athiests' claims that there are no gods and they should grow up? To the fundamentalist, anyone who recommends another path is sending people to hell.
People can't choose their skin colour, or their sex or their sexual orientation, which is why the racism, misogyny and homophobia the likes of Livingstone once opposed are so repellent. But a religion is a system of ideas like any other and must have its claims tested in the necessarily rough arguments of a free society. If people's sensibilities are offended, that's tough.
David Blunkett said last week that his proposed law wouldn't limit free debate. Sadiq Khan and other leading Muslim lawyers have built up an impressive dossier of evidence that 'Muslim' has become code for 'Paki' or 'wog' in the propaganda of British neo-fascism. If the BNP and others attack 'Muslims' rather than Asians they can't be prosecuted because there are laws against inciting racial hatred but not religious hatred.
All of this is true, but as the National Secular Society points out there are laws of incitement to violence and harassment which protect everyone. The question is, what would a law against incitement to religious hatred be used for? The optimistic answer is not much. Everyone in favour of censorship claims it couldn't possibly be used to gag the next Salman Rushdie. This is disingenuous. If incitement to religious hatred had been a crime at the time of the persecution of Rushdie, his enemies would certainly have tried to bring him to trial. Even if they had failed, the publicity would have made life harder for him and for the translators of The Satanic Verses who faced the possibility of being murdered for standing up for freedom of publication.
Anyone who believes the promises that no harm will come from censorship, should consider the history of pornography in Britain.
In 1857 the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Campbell, persuaded Parliament to limit free speech by passing the Obscene Publications Act. The Blunkett of his day was appalled that the Victorian pornography trade was growing without legal check in the Aldwych district of central London, which is now home of that model of modesty, the BBC World Service. MPs worried that great works of literature would be banned by Philistine civil servants and judges, but Campbell told them they had no need to fret.
His intention was to stop the 'sale of a poison more deadly than prussic acid'. Censorship would apply 'exclusively to works written for the single purpose of corrupting the morals of youth and of a nature calculated to shock the common feelings of decency in any well regulated mind.' Only hateful pornographers had anything to fear. His assurances were worthless. Dry guides on birth control were prohibited. The works of Emile Zola, Gustave Flaubert, James Joyce, D H Lawrence Jean-Paul Satre and even Daniel Defoe (for Moll Flanders ) couldn't be sold, while tens of thousands of authors and publishers censored themselves for more than a century.
After that experience, if you're relaxed about extending prohibition you should be careful about what you wish for because you will have no right to be dismayed by what you get.
We have our own gestapo in Canada they calls themselves the Can-islamis Congress and here's there site-
http://www.canadianislamiccongress.org/
The leader is a real dolt,he can't shut-up during TV debates and he argues Islam by screaming at people that they are spewing rhetoric
and are Islomophobes.
During one show he verbally attacked a lesbian as the enemy of Islam and doing blasphemy to Muhammed and the Quran,no he's not on the counseling staff at his Mosque thank God.
Another debate on TV had 4 men and two female Muslims telling about the true Islam,well it was really funny,one girl didn't wear the Hijab,all the men had different views on the Quran. It was a shout-fest and peaceful isn't how I'd discribed Islam after seeing that show.
Another canadian site is
http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/
The head of this site has had death threats by
Muslims that say he's practising a Western Islam and is insulting Allah and must die for that.
I say we try to turff them all and not allow the family-fued within Islam to be waged in American soil,let them slaughter each other and Allah will sort out the true Muslims.
REZA attention REZA.
I questioned REZA on the claim that the WTC attack was really orchastrated by the Jews and
Muhammed Atta wasn't on the plane.
Well since I posed 5 questions about the attack that REZA could answer for me so I would honor my claim to convert to Islam,there is no response.
Either REZA isn't a Muslim.
or doesn't know the Quran.
or knows the Quran but can't answer because it would expose the hate and evil in it.
or Muhammed IS the misogenist/pedophile/murderer history records him to be.
or the Quran is a useless Medical diary on Muhammed's mental disorders that recorded his desire to kill and believe the voices in his head were from THEE god and not A god.
Well REZA,Allah lost a convert and I now know your full of S**T and consumed with hate you learned from a few verses in the Quran(satans manual for the end times).
A decent Muslim wouldn't reject my offer to convert to Islam so the gig is up,you try to infect people with your vile corrosive hate and it isn't working. Muslims in America have gotten away with playing ignorant to the violence in the Mosques and Jihad recruiting,but no more,too many bust for terror funding and bomb-plot.
Here's a tip REZA
If your faith causes so much anger when defending the violence,change faiths,look for
the American peace and freedom and tolerance.
Your stuck in denial and living by rules written 14 centuries ago,and judging by the bad-breath and B.O. the Quran forbids washing and brushing the teeth.
First-Keith Joy....I do not, nor have I ever, considered you anti-American. I know you're not. Domestic issues and political parties are disagreed upon, but I've never questioned your hatred for terrorism.
Americans may fight amongst themselves, but for any of you outsiders reading this, don't do anything stupid, like trying to step in and take over. That, will be your last mistake.
Now, back to the Muslims. Yesterday I spoke with a girl who was here visiting a friend of mine. She lives in Toronto, and said that the Muslim population is ruining things up there, stinking up the place. I told her that they need to oust their Government and elect officials that will act in the best interest of Canadians, not Muslims. She agreed.
She said that Muslims in Canada, like everywhere else, expect to bring their barbaric Sharia with them like luggage everywhere they lay eggs and populate. Canadians: Before it's too late, and it's not too late yet, you must step up and take this plaque out of your society. Like us or not, America stands with you on this issue.