More evidence that Pakistan is an epicenter of the global jihad. From the New York Times:
KABUL, Afghanistan, Aug. 3 - For months Afghan and American officials have complained that even while Pakistan cooperates in the fight against Al Qaeda, militant Islamic groups there are training fighters and sending them into Afghanistan to attack American and Afghan forces.Pakistani officials have rejected the allegations, saying they are unaware of any such training camps. Now the Afghan government has produced a young Pakistani, captured fighting with the Taliban in southern Afghanistan three months ago, whose story would seem to back its complaints about Pakistan.
The prisoner, who gave his name as Muhammad Sohail, is a 17-year-old from the Pakistani port city of Karachi, held by the Afghan authorities in Kabul. In an interview in late July, in front of several prison guards, he said Pakistan was allowing militant groups to train and organize insurgents to fight in Afghanistan. Mr. Sohail said he hoped that granting the interview would increase his chances of being freed. Mr. Sohail described his recruitment through his local mosque by a group listed by the United States as having terrorist links, his military training in a camp not far from the capital, Islamabad, and his dispatch with several other Pakistanis to Afghanistan.
He did not give all the details that intelligence officials said they gleaned from him in interrogations, but he talked easily about his party and its leaders, and said they had high-level support from within the establishment. He said he was recruited and trained within the past eight months by Jamiat-ul-Ansar, the new name for the Harakat-ul-Mujahedeen party, which was designated a terrorist group by the State Department and banned by President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan in January 2002. Under its new name it is functioning, if more discreetly, and its leader, Fazlur Rehman Khalil, moves around freely.
Mr. Khalil has been involved in recruiting and training militants since the 1980's. In 1998, American planes bombed his training camp in Afghanistan when they were targeting Osama bin Laden after the bombings of the American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. The bombing killed a number of Pakistanis, and Mr. Khalil at the time vowed to take revenge against America for the attack.
It is an open secret in Pakistan that groups supporting separatism in Kashmir have not stopped their activities, despite official declarations, and have continued to train men and infiltrate them into Indian Kashmir. Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage said during a visit to the region last month that Pakistan had not dismantled all the camps used to train militants for Kashmir. And while he praised Pakistan for its efforts against Al Qaeda, he urged the country to do more to stop Taliban militants carrying out attacks from Pakistan.
All I can say is: So what else is new? Is anyone really shocked about this?
Pakistan's Military dictator, General Musharraf, cooperated with us in the war against terror because he was stuck between a rock and a hard place....Remember The words: "If you are not with us in this War against terror you are against us?" Pakistan heard them loud and clear! And He still managed to extort the forgiveness of debt payment in exchange for their cooperation!
A Muslim is a Muslim is a Muslim...He will lie, cheat, deceive and betray allies to #1 Survive and #2 promote Islam... Patience is one aspect of Muslim psychology that we just do not get. Back stabbing is another!
This is not a surprise.
It was the Pakistani Inter Intelligence Services that gave birth to this abomination in the first place.
Paskistan needs to go, along with all the other Islamo-bastard countries.
Earlier this year, hundreds of Pakistani troops died in a battle against Taliban remnants in the North West Frontier Province.
Just last week, arrests of terrorists by Pakistani police probably averted another 9/11.
The president has survived two assasination attempts by Al-Qaeda last year.
It was not the ISI who created the Taliban, but the CIA, in its covert war against the Russians(see, back then, they weren't terrorists but "freedom fighters").
And this is the gratitude shown by Americans. No wonder your people are loathed the world over.
Get your facts straight. 'truth.' We worked with the Northern Alliance, not the Taliban. They may have gotten some of our stuff but we knew even then they would be trouble later.
And perhaps you felt better off under communists?
Truth,
Get your facts straight.
"The ISI also openly backs the Taliban and fuels the 12-year-old insurgency in northern India’s disputed Kashmir province by ‘sponsoring’ Muslim militant groups and ministering its policy of ‘death by a thousand cuts’.
"No wonder your people are loathed the world over".
What country are you from, or are you ashamed to disclose this?
Gary,
Truth is either Islamo-trash or left wing socialist scum.
Right. Like you never worked with Saddam Hussein against the Iranians. Never supplied arms to every murderous dictator in Central America as long as it suited your fancy. The fact is, America has the longest track record of hypocrisy and back-stabbing in the world.
If any of you think the ISI can wipe its ass without the consent of the CIA, I have a bridge to sell you.
The Northern Alliance is made up of ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks, not even 10% of the Afghan population (which is almost entirely Pushtun: the base of the Taliban). If you think in the 80s the U.S. hitched its wagon to the pimple on the elephant's ass, I've got a tunnel for sale as well.
Uneducated, ill-informed troglodytes. I repeat, no wonder your people are loathed the world over.
Speaking from, thankfully, the U.K.
Ahh, the UK. May an IRA bomb find it's way under your feet, Truth.
SoI, you were right, (lack of)truth is socialist scum. Living in a country that would just barely be in existence today if we had not sided with them against Hitler, who was one of the biggest friends the likes of the Taliban ever had.
'Scuse me while the rest of you shoot this guy down. I have a 22-inch pike to start in the oven, among other things.
Ah, so the IRA are terrorists now? Back in the halcyon days of yore, when you were making movies glorifying the murderous IRA (The Devil's Own, In the Name of the Father, ), they were everyone's favorite freedom fighters. See back then, it was okay to bomb civilians, as long as those doing the bombing had blonde hair.
Enough. I've no respect, frankly, for those who don't even realize who their country aligns with. Go watch more telly and get fatter (I assume the 22 inch pike is just for one, eh?).
Nope, (lack of)truth, it isn't. And when I am not here waiting for Canadian immigration to allow me to go find a job, I am finding ways to make my new wife's life better. Or out hiking. Or writing, or half a dozen other things.
btw, I don't want respect from someone who aches for their lost communist hopes, an ideaology that has failed everywhere it has been tried for the last 2000+ years. (I Do hope you weren't stupid enough to think it actually started with Marx).
Oh yes! Movies about the IRA. Made by the very people who side with you and the muslims, you dumb shit.
Go burn in Hell. And watch your back: the people you are defending here are out to knife it.
And now I Must get back to things.
"Right. Like you never worked with Saddam Hussein against the Iranians."
True, Truth. We chose the lesser of two evils at the time....
"Never supplied arms to every murderous dictator in Central America as long as it suited your fancy."
Your biased opinion, Truth. It seems to me from my perspective that we stanched the tide of more murderous leftists. Which is the better choice? Murderous tinhorn dictator, or leftists worshipping at the ash heap of history who within months began negotiations with the thankfully defunct Soviet Union for them to gain a military toehold in our backyard (Nicaragua)? Again, we held our nose and made the right choice.
"The fact is, America has the longest track record of hypocrisy and back-stabbing in the world."
Gads, mate. You are objectively opinionated!
"If any of you think the ISI can wipe its ass without the consent of the CIA, I have a bridge to sell you."
Pakistan has to walk a helluva tightrope between two civilizations. You see the CIA bogeyman behind everything (typical wack left hyperventilation)....You give alot of credit to an organization that along with the FBI couldn't find a conspiracy involving a group of maniacs right in our own wheelhouse, and they're pulling strings from here to Timbuktu....I give a lot more credit to your MI6 than to our bumbling, toothless CIA.
"The Northern Alliance is made up of ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks, not even 10% of the Afghan population (which is almost entirely Pushtun: the base of the Taliban). If you think in the 80s the U.S. hitched its wagon to the pimple on the elephant's ass, I've got a tunnel for sale as well."
Very true, Truth. At the time we supported anybody who opposed the Soviet Union. Iran and the Sov's were number one on our hit parade at the time. Only one of the villains remain. Fancy that!
"Uneducated, ill-informed troglodytes. I repeat, no wonder your people are loathed the world over."
Loathed and most certainly envied, Truth. Just admit it.
You stumble into the same trap as all the other revisionist pseudo-historians. You look at the past through a lens colored by today's perspectives. You are the kind of person who in America will bash our founding fathers for being slaveholders without the decency to view it through the prism of history.
"Speaking from, thankfully, the U.K."
I love the U.K. In a few more years I think we'll invite you guys to become our 51st state. 52nd if Canada gets a brain anytime soon.
Sincerely,
The imperialist running drisnya
To Truth,
ignorance can be overcome,
but stupidity can never change.
While the enemy screams with hate
inside the gates of your hallowed halls,
the british dhimmi waits in trepidation
as his civilization disappears
behind the fears and lies of jihad.
Too bad, how sad my ancestors say,
your children will yearn to be free.
Truth,
My suspicions were correct. I can smell one of you left wing socialist slobs a mile away.
Were you born in the UK or did you immirgrate there from some "third world" Islamic toilet?
In the final analysis you and your ilk will be eliminated by the very Islamo-fascists that you defend.
"True, Truth. We chose the lesser of two evils at the time...."
Fine, then simply say as much. If Americans didn't cloak their imperialist tendencies in the rhetoric of "Bringing Democracy to the heathen Arabs," you'd not be considered such hypocrites.
"Very true, Truth. At the time we supported anybody who opposed the Soviet Union. Iran and the Sov's were number one on our hit parade at the time. Only one of the villains remain. Fancy that!"
And how, exactly, were they vanquished? Under torrents of your missiles and bombs? The 51st Marine Expeditionary Force landing in St. Petersburg? Put simply, the ideals of democracy beat back their ideology. What Americans today do not understand is, you will require the same to defeat the Islamic fundamentalists.
"Loathed and most certainly envied, Truth. Just admit it."
Envied!!!Is that what Americans really think? We envy you being the fattest people on the planet? Your love of oil-guzzling autos? Your worship of money? Your testosterone fueled foriegn policy (Look George, our cock is defintiely bigger than theirs now). Love, I envy the debates of the ancient Greeks, I envy those who lived during the Renaissance, I envy the explorers of the American West. Modern America most definitely is NOT envied by anyone save the most materialistic amongst us.
"I love the U.K. In a few more years I think we'll invite you guys to become our 51st state. 52nd if Canada gets a brain anytime soon."
Mate, you can try to upset me by saying the U.K. will become the 51st state or some such nonsense, but us Britishers are the kings of self-deprecation. Believe me, we know what a shitty little island our once great empire has become.
Maybe it's time to Decapitate the West's Pet Cobra! It dances to any tune which keeps Musharraf
alive and in power but even he is afraid of its venom and poisonous ever increasing progeny.
If your island has become shitty, (lack of)truth, it is because they allowed thinking like yours to overtake it.
Islam will do its best to eradicate your likes, along with the rest. I just hope the Intelligent people are left standing when the dust settles.
You won't be among them.
Oh btw? What imperialism are you talking about? Upon what country did the 'Sun never set'? Sure as Hell was never the US. The last big empire on this planet was yours.
And stop thinking of Michael Moore when you think of Americans. I'm willing to bet you are the picture of perfect body shape. Care to show a pic?
Pakistan is playing a double game. And Bush is totally getting taken in by it. This is the reason why Bin Laden is still on the loose.
Bush's so-called strategic relationships with terror-breeders like Pakistan and Al-Saud are not working. Yet he meekly stumbles along, with lots of talk about "friends" and "cooperation". What a sham.
http://veraciraptor.blogspot.com
"I love the U.K. In a few more years I think we'll invite you guys to become our 51st state. 52nd if Canada gets a brain anytime soon."
In a few more years you either be dead or bowing to Mecca.
Britian and most of Europe, that is "Eurabia" has been invaded by the "third world" Islamo- fascists.Largely do to the politically correct socialist wankers like yourself.
Piss-off lefty.
Truth,
I'm diametrically opposed to virtually everything you stand for, however I do love your style. I appreciate the fact that you spell correctly as well!
Although I absolutely dig British humor, I am saddened by the fact that you have that fatalistic, dreary attitude about your country. I really don't understand that. That is why I love to have talks with my left friends. I learn alot and I get a pick-me-up knowing that I'm much more positive about my lot in life than are you and your ideological peers.
More in line with the theme of this site, your solution of "democracy beat them back...." applies hardly to the Sov's (pure economic collapse)....and it certainly does not apply to Islam. I consider myself pretty broad-minded, however we have a totally different paradigm here with these people; so much so that you just can't open a box of reason and come to some sort of an agreement. Islamic relations will be a problem facing generations long after we take our dirt nap. I agree with Marx on one thing and one thing only: religion is indeed the opiate of the masses.
I hope you stick to this site since it makes it tons of fun having divergent opinions once in awhile. Arguing when you're the only person in the room gets pretty boring after awhile.
(lack of)Truth, if you get the chance, I'd like your take on how America has screwed this country up:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/cliffordmay/cm20040804.shtml
Thanks!
Drisnya
Civility on a weblog...what a concept.
Self-deprecation is miles and miles away from self-loathing. The distinction is fine, perhaps, and I suspect it is an inherently British sensibility: we love our country (how quaint sounding!), but we feel the need to poke fun at Her pomposity on occasion as well.
Economic collapse is surely the outward manifestation of the collapse of the USSR, but that is just a sypmtom. Economics does not exist in a vaccum. I would argue that, at its core, the Soviet Union failed because its ideas failed. The fact that the the Soviets could not meet their payrolls is but an accident of history: it could just as easily have been that the military revolted, or mass starvation would have led to rioting and revolution.
In the same way, Western ideals must be shown to be superior to Islamic fundamentalist ideals. I do not believe any people are born evil. Show them the strentgh of your ideas, not the power of your bombs. For every fundoo killed by an American tank, ten will rise to take his place. Unless you advocate killing every Muslim man woman and child, it is the only way to win.
I agree, it will not happen in our lifetimes. The Soviet Union took seven decades. But we had better get started, don't you think?
Civility is what you should have started with, in that case. Instead of sounding like the most worthless trash we have running off at the mouth in the US (Michael Moore et al).
And my wife is home. Time to relax. Night all!
Truth,
"Unless you advocate killing every Muslim man woman and child, it is the only way to win".
You have finally said something I agree with.
Give Bush 4 more years.
Then see what Pakistan becomes.
Ha anyone wondered what Pakistan will become with 4 years of Kerry democrats?
Remember, Clinton had NO political ties with Pakistan whatsoever. Bush does. Kerry won't.
Another thing;
why would someone call himself "truth" yet not know a word of it?
What an idiot.
On another topic, Canada becoming the 51st state?
That is another idiotic statement. Canada would make many, many, many, more "states" western canada alone, would make at least 10 states.
Think before you speak, or at least look at a map.
I'm not trying to be rude either. But Canada is much larger than the USA. To call the whole country a "51st" state is ignorant.
I can see western canada becoming a 'protectorate' however, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 56, 57 th states eventually. screw Ontario and Q-bec, who wants Frenchmen, Muslims? and Liberals?
Hey! I Like Ontario. This is where I got married and am immigrating to.
:P
On the other hand, wherever Jenn's job takes her, there I shall go. Besides, there is only One mosque in this whole city. That's not good but it is better than most.
So we have another conspiracy theorist on the scene. One who rather ironically calls himself:
"The Truth" (even my dog laughed at that one).
You leftists get more comical (and less believable by the day).
Truth,
Hate to say this but it's people like you who are causing Britain to become "a shitty little island" and one full of shitty people with shitty leftist PC opinions which do absolutely no good for our economy or the people we should be focusing on liberating in the UK.
Most of the people who come to this site are , like me (who is also british, and not so thankful to be here) well informed on islam and the horrifying message of bigotry and hatred it delivers to it's followers, hatred directed at people "with blonde hair" for one and any other poor bastard who isn't a muslim.
If you want to defend a religion that is plotting to overthrow western society/the free world and every good thing we are used to in our fair and democratic part of the world, then I have no time for you, because to me you are just as much a danger to me and my children as islam is, and I just hope you have to learn the hard way what we have comming if we keep letting these vermin infest our once great land.
They are the ones responsible, directly for importing heroin into the UK and causing all the economy-crumbling problems brought in with it.
But it's okay Truth,vote in the liberal democrats, stand in Trafalger Square with your "Stop Bush" banners, and preach how islam is a religion of peace to any numskull who will believe it. You'll be alright because I'm sure when you've got a machete held up to your throat and are told to "convert or die" they'll end up freeing you because you're one of the good guys who let them take over, you'll be classed as a "helpful infidel" and will be able to roam free around a country overun with muslims forcing their law or death upon anyone who refuses to follow it.
I'm ashamed to share the same water supply as an opinionated, self-serving snake like you and if you wanna get personal let me know .I could be just around the corner from you .
People like "truth" you see like to portray america as the villians of every piece , and try to see conspiracies where there are none, just because they can, then one day they growe a brain and realise that they've been viewing everything in black and white instead of looking at the bigger picture.
I'm afaid Truth is still in his conspiritorial moron years, and hasn't quite reached his intelligence chrysillis stage yet.
Rikki~ He should hope that 'Chrysallis' isn't a dark basement closet (with a small supply of food and water, and a bucket for a toilet) in a London slum, hoping one of his socialist 'friends' doesn't turn him to their new masters.
Guys:
This person, "The Truth" (on this page) is a relatively new poster and should not be confused with "Truth", an established anti-jihad poster. Just be aware for future reference.
Always distrust anyone claiming to be the arbiter of "the truth" - such individuals are usually anything but, and smell Reza-like.
Mullah_Abu,
jesus christ. are you able to discern a tongue-in-cheek comment from red meat rage? with what the canucks have going on up there I wouldn't want you in my blessed country (i mean blessed in a purely secular sense; not some religious drivel).
seriously now folks, the truth makes cogent and valid points from his/her perspective. i disagree with him/her, but it is at least interesting to debate with someone from the other side of the fence. note how he/she and I had some grudging agreements here and there. i fully agree that we need to win in the theatre of ideas, but how to get there may be the difference.
this site would be beyond boring if on occasion an educated leftie didn't stop by....
Dear dear, I'd long Lilly stock, because there will be a surge in demand for Prozac.
What lovely invective. After being told an IRA bomb should find me, I am invited to "go personal", mano a mano, by an honest to goodness Thatcherite (I reckoned you all went into hiding after Major wet his trousers shaking the Queen's hand). Anytime, anyplace, friend, and we'll whip it out to see whose is bigger. I even have a warcry: I am the Walrus.
Incidentally, why the need to compartmentalize people into one of two camps. Is there no middle ground between "left wing socialst slob" and the right? In America, there used to be fiscal conservative social liberals like Nelson Rockefeller. What simple times! where the world can be divided in half on the basis of two words: liberal or conservative.
By the by: Of course the U.S. is not in the Sudan, there's no bloody oil there.
Drisnya~ I agree we need more like (lack of)truth to show up here and make their points- if only to prove them wrong. I fear however that 'how to get there' is going to be a difference measured in lives, thousands if not millions.
btw, for a Leftist to get here, didn't they have to make a right turn somewhere? :P
The Truth/Bullshit:
Wrong again my friend , not only have I had it drilled into me since birth to hate Thatcher and the Tories,and that they are single-handedly responsible for everything that went wrong in the UK in the 18 years previous to New Labour, but I'm a political neutralist too, on simpler terms:I don't vote, because whatever of those condescending squads of muppets gets in ain't going to alter my life for the better at all.
As for your question, maybe one day there will be peace harmony in Britain between liberals,tories and labourers, perhaps long after mankind has gone, but there's going to be hell on earth first. It would be nice if we didn't have to go to war ever , but you and your PC push-over types have insured that this country will one day (possibly very soon will have to defend itself against invaders which you have allowed in , in massive numbers, with a red carpet polled out for them. And now you've even let these wastes-of-oxygens rights come before people like me and my family who have long ancestry in this country, is this the kind of Britain you hoped for because if so don't ever be complaining about how shitty it's become.It damn well ain't the Britain I hoped for.
Because of gullible PC parrots like you . I worry for the future of my children, and have to teach them things I wouldn't have had to had the future looked bright, but sorry to say , it's looking pretty bloody grim. Thanks a lot Truth
Do yourself and your family and friends a favour and go and do some serious research about islam, start realising that the US is our greatest ally (and sometimes feels like our only one), teach your kids(if you're capable of making them) to fight and bow down to no-one of any religion or culture ,to put themselves and their own firs(I'm not saying be racist, I'm not racist, just anti-islam;which ios a religion, also I have friends from many cultures) and for gods sake look a bit deeper below the surface of what the tabloids tell you, and form your own opinions , rather than being given them.
Truth,
If you believe that Iraq/oil shit, you'd believe the world was flat.
Truth~
There is oil in Israel. Why don't we just take theirs?
http://www.givot.co.il/
It would be so much easier to buy it from them than (allegedly) take it from someone else, hey?
Oh btw- Kuwait at maximum output, can produce half the oil the US needs every day. We had 230,000 troops right there in '91. It was ours for the taking. Tell me, why isn't there an American flag flying over Kuwait?