It is interesting to read this statement in conjunction with this one. I'd like to see Ali Sina of the Ex-Muslim Movement in a discussion/debate with Kamal Nawash of the Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism. Gentlemen, if you are reading this, I hereby invite you to have that debate here at Jihad Watch. Please contact me at director@jihadwatch.org.
From FaithFreedom.org:
A Letter to MankindDear fellow human,
Today humanity is being challenged. Unthinkable atrocities take place on daily basis. There is an evil force at work that aims to destroy us. The agents of this evil respect nothing; not even the lives of children. Every day there are bombings, every day innocent people are targeted and murdered. It seems as if we are helpless. But we are not!
The ancient Chinese sage Sun Zi said, “Know your enemy and you won't be defeated”. Do we know our enemy? If we don’t, then we are doomed.
Terrorism is not an ideology, it is a tool; but the terrorists kill for an ideology. They call that ideology Islam.
The entire world, both Muslims and non-Muslims claim that the terrorists have hijacked “the religion of peace” and Islam does not advocate violence and terror.
Who is right? Do the terrorists understand Islam better, or do those who decry them? The answer to this question is the key to our victory, and failure to find that key will result in our loss and death will be upon us. The key is in the Quran and the history of Islam.
Those of us who know Islam, know that the understanding of the terrorists of Islam is correct. They are doing nothing that their prophet did not do and did not encourage his followers to do. Murders, assassinations, beheadings, massacres and sacrilege of the dead "to delight the hearts of the believers" were all practiced by Muhammad, were taught by him and were observed by Muslims throughout the history.
If ever truth has mattered, it is now! This is the time that we have to call a spade a spade. This is the time that we have to find the root of the problem and eradicate it. The root of Islamic terrorism is Islam. The proof of that is the Quran.
We are a group of ex-Muslims who have seen the face the of evil and have risen to warn the world. No matter how painful the truth may be, only truth can set us free. Why this much denial? Why so much obstinacy? How many more innocent lives should be lost before YOU open your eyes? A nuclear disaster is upon us. This will happen. It is not a question of “if” but “when”. Oblivious of that, the world is digging its head deeper in the sand.
We urge the Muslims to leave Islam. Stop with excuses, justifications and rationalizations. Stop dividing mankind in “us” vs. “them” and Muslims vs. Kafirs. We are One people, One mankind! Muhammad was not a messenger of God. It is time that we end this insanity and face the truth. The terrorists take their moral support and the validation for their actions from you. Your very adherence to their cult of death is a nod of approval for their crimes against humanity.
We also urge the non-Muslims to stop being politically correct lest they hurt the Muslims' sensitivity. To Hell with their sensibilities! Let us save their lives, and the lives of millions of innocent people.
Millions, if not billions of lives will be lost if we do nothing. Time is running out! “All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.” Do something! Send this message to everyone in your address book and ask them to do the same. Defeat Islam and stop terrorism. This is your world, save it.
The ex-Muslim Movement
www.faithfreedom.org
I will be curious to see how muslim, dhalek and Naseem respond to these first few articles today.
OT, but this fits with these articles to some extent:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ollienorth/on20040910.shtml
Sounds like we're in good shape. Let's hope they are as on top of things as the article suggests. Of course, people arguing for Kerry will deride the fact that Oliver North wrote this. Ingoring Serious content for... whatever they choose to see about North.
There is a huge discussion in the Dutch press going on about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali film. PC journalists tell Ayaan "not to provoke" and "keeping the dialogue open." Yesterday's NRC Handelsblad carried a large article by writer Betsy Udink, who is based in Pakistan. Previously she was stationed in S-Arabia and wrote books about the situation there.
In yesterday's article she described all the elements we already know from the Spencer books concerning the situation of Pakistani women (honor killings etc) and the role of Koran in this.
Her conclusion: Ayaan keep on provoking! Do not retreat, but intensify your efforts. Just as the ex-Muslims movement says: To hell with their sensibilities!
Meanwhile Ayaan is living in undisclosed locationville, constantly surrounded by bodyguards. Her last (already secret) adress was published by a muslim website.
Her live is in jeopardy.
A couple of links to check out. I hope muslim comes by and reads them. These people are the ones you should fear most. The cracks showing in your cause are getting bigger and bigger, day by day...
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
These women must make you angry as well muslim, look at all the rights they are enjoying!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3631826.stm
Can you hear the hope in their words? Can you hear that their biggest concern are people who view the Americans as "invadors", and not the Americans themselves?
Samira
"I think the negative aspects that have come to the surface were not caused by the war as such or by the American occupation alone.
Rather, these things happened because of the change of the governing regime.
A fall of a regime is not a small matter.
In Iraq there are those who support the previous government and there are those who are opposed to it.
These tensions have resulted in the disturbances we see and the reactions we witness, as well as in the emergence of political groupings, some of which operate openly while others do so in secret.
Some of these groupings threaten Iraqi security.
Worse still has been the targeting of places of worship, be they Muslim or Christian, as well as acts of robbery and kidnapping.
The intention behind such acts is to keep the situation unstable so that the perpetrators can claim that the situation under the previous regime was better."
Oh no, a woman who is not tricked or brainwashed to believe the whole problem in Iraq is the Americans!
Moose
Has anyone seen this? The German dhimmis are apparently trying to civilize the Iranians...good lord...
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2004/09/die_sddeutsche_.html
911 Was Staged to Defame Muslims
Dhalek! Good morning!
I'll read your article. Just curious why Jihad (Spinning down the Drain) would have an article about how muslims defamed their faith by committing 911?
*goes to read*
Aha! Not Jihad (Spinning down the Drain). Still, they got it wrong. Nice try, Dhalek. It has already been proven that most of the islamic terrorists on the plane were Saudis, not Jews.
Khaled-
Did you read the disclaimer/comment by Alton Raines at the end of the article you want us to read? What, are you running out of real, bona-fide terrorist sites to enlighten us with??
Unfortunately, I've heard this trash again and again. My personal favorite is the one where all the Jews were warned not to come to work the morning of 9/11, and were seen dancing just around the corner from the WTC after the attack. In reality, the only dancing going on was in the Arab/Islamic world.
OT but related, of course:
http://www.nationalreview.com/ijaz/ijaz200409101000.asp
written by the very man who tried to help us get Bin Laden- and whom Clinton turned down.
Take notes, KeithJoy!
That's some funny sh*t Khaled. Are you being humorous or brainwashed?
How about this one Khalid:
Muzzie taxi drivers were warned to stay away from the World Trade Centre.
Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq, and others are by far the most dangerous, because the most knowledgeable, opponents of those who present a sanitized view of Islam. They are to be supported and encouraged in every way. If the Pentagon had more sense, it would find a way to publish, in 10 or 20 major languages, their books, their articles -- in Arabic, in Farsi, in Urdu, in Hindi, in the languages of Indonesia, in Spanish, French, Italian, German, Russian. And they would pay for translators to translate, every single article at www.secularislam.org and www.faithfreedom.org, and, dare I suggest, at www.jihadwatch.org, www.nojihad.org, and a few other websites. What would it all cost? The same as a handful of tanks, or a plane or two? And what would be the vast effect?
Can we please have some glimmer of intelligence on this? Something to show that there are people who recognize, not the need for propaganda, but simply for those who grew up in Islam, who know it intimately, who are motivated to help remove these mind-forged manacles that so limit human potential, and are so dangerous for others, to be able to reach, through translations, the very audience they most need to reach. Ex-Muslims are hardly well off; they need American money. They need support for these efforts. The government, or private foundations, must pay at least for the necessary translations to be made-- not half-baked or amateurish efforts, but translations that meet the highest standards. And soon.
What Really Happened
Totally agree with Hugh here.
Suppose we were to publish adverts in major newspapers/magazines and on TV /Radio stations the letter by ex-muslims above, and do it in an interested activist sense (a la the 527s) would we be breaking any law of the US?
Pls lemme know.
If we're on the right side of US law, then maybe we should get down to spreading the word, starting with the letter above to a wider audience?
Right next to every Muslim Student Association in the United States there should be an Ex-Muslim Student Club.
And why not? Because ex-Muslims might get hurt, killed, who knows. Ex-Muslims must be ex-Muslims in silence
How can we allow this? We should encourage and defend ex-Muslims with all of our resources on all levels. But instead we turn a blind eye to the 'religion of peace' and allow de facto terrorism of those who might help us the most.
Someone had to defame the muslims???what??? I thought they were doing a damn good job of that all on their own.
Totally agree with Hugh here.
Suppose we were to publish adverts in major newspapers/magazines and on TV /Radio stations the letter by ex-muslims above, and do it in an interested activist sense (a la the 527s) would we be breaking any law of the US?
Pls lemme know.
If we're on the right side of US law, then maybe we should get down to spreading the word, starting with the letter above to a wider audience?
Oops, sorry for the double post. pls ignore.
Voletti - You're covered by the First Amendment. Go for it.
Don't get too excited and don't let your guard down. These are only words. Where is the action?
Many of the young Iranians are leaving Islam for the older Zoroastrian religion.
At least we won't have to worry about them declaring any jihad upon the world.
Abad,
You've posted: 'Many of the young Iranians are leaving Islam for the older Zoroastrian religion.'
Can you refer us to the source of this information? I thought the only 'prize' these young Iranians can count on is death for apostasy.
I wish it could be true. And their numbers grew significantly before the Islamic republic started brandishing WMD. But it's just about to, isn't it?
Yes, ex-Muslims need to be supported, and simplified information about Islam needs to be written and provided for those that will not or can not take the time to read the Koran, the ahadiths, or Muslim history. People will be able to grasp the concepts if they are presented in an appropriate form. Some Muslims might even learn about Islam for the first time as they memorize the Koran in Arabic, a language that they neither speak nor understand. (An absurdity!)
A wonderful salvo from Ex Muslims who know all about the Death Cult of Islam.
KHALED -Are you crazy or what!! Or are you calling
your hero Bin Laden a Liar since he has claimed
responsibility for frying 3,00 innocent[some of them Muslims] alive.
Dear Khaled;
The truth from Palestine
The truth from Indonesia
The truth from Nigeria
The truth from Kashmir
Muslim conversions to Christ
Muslim conversions to Christ
Muslims leaving Islam
Two thousand years ago Khaled, Jesus made this statement;
"I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"
Matthew 16:18
As you can see from the top links, the gates of Hell are surely trying, but as you can see from the bottom ones, they are not prevailing and He is indeed, building His Church.
You are currently in the Kingdom of Darkness Khaled. Eventually "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"
Make that choice willingly now Khaled, Leave the Kingdom of Darkness and come over to the Kingdom of Light. Embrace Jesus as your personal Savior and accept His sacrifice for the remission of your sins.
Islam is in its death throes. It has no future.
Regards,
KC
"Ashadu an La ilaha il Yahweh, Yesuwa-ur-bin-Illah."
For the Palestine link, just press cancel on the pop up.
I agree with KC Khalid, the choice is yours.
"Time is running out."
But about
the jihadis . . .
Without a doubt
their fire will rage out of control,
for the oil money makes them strong.
But when the black gold is all gone,
what then?
What will be the end game?
Who will get the blame
for America's ignoranc
indifference,
and indolence?
kc England said:
Not bad, but you need to touch up on your Arabic skills... there are still a couple of mistakes, which leaves the sentence sounding like jibberish... but it's okay, I know what you mean :)- Chan'ad
Poetess:
If that's a sample of your best prose, underscored by your powers of analysis, you'd best not quit your day job, unless, of course it requires articulation and analytical skills.
Yep...try me in a couple of months Chan'ad!
I'll have had a bit longer in my Arabic class by then.
My personal goal is to get to the point where, when a Muslim comes out with that worn out line..
"Oh..it's not what it says in the Arabic.."
I can retort;
"Oh really??... let's have a look then shall we?.."
Regards,
KC
"I testify there is no God but Yahweh, Jesus is the Son of God"
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
"And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
The Book of Revelation 19
OT
"Happy birthday, new Amerikkka!
Three years ago your new emperor W -four more terms- fabricated with his Saudi friends a fake terror attack on New York shity",
If anyone is interested, the above is a section of some despicable commentary posted at: http://talkleft.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?
entry_id=7856
Tommorrow is the 3rd anniversary of 9/11 and I take this pretty dam seriously.
This A$$hole needs to be taught a good lesson.
"I testify there is no God but Yahweh, Jesus is the Son of God"
Gives me the chills! Great sign to parade in front of the mosque with!
Another bullet in the argument against racism:
I propose that ex-Muslims, given their courage, their strength, their moral fortitude deserve special privileges in our society, special protection, maybe even special rights to immigrate. How about green cards.
But surely as far as race goes, the mix among ex-Muslims is more or less what it is among Muslims.
So, how about it? Give ex-Muslims the special rights and privileges they deserve, and sanction Islam ways that it deserves. Racism? No. Ideology, belief-sytems, and simply moral decency. That is what this is all about and ex-Muslims know better than anybody.
Nikoz,
I know a couple of Iranians who were formerly Muslim, one lives in the UK, the other in California. What happens when a Muslim leaves their religion? they have to be very discreet, in the closet so to speak, because Islam pronounces death upon any of their members who leaves their faith. There is no freedom of choice in Islam -- anyone can convert, but you cannot leave without not only being declared an apostate, but have to fear for their lives.
Iran is not only undergoing a political transformation and religious transformation, but also an identity change; the revival of the pre-Islamic Persian culture, Cyrus the Great, Darius, Zoroaster....judging from what I hear from friends in RL and on the 'Net, what they have to say about 'those Tazis', they mean business, and they do not want to have to bow to the altar of Islam anymore.
Plus, they want to get away from this tribal mentality which Islam comprises of and revert back to their individualistic nature.
The following is an article I received in a newsgroup which I am a member of a few months ago:
Muslim convert to Zoroastrianism hanged in public
In the Islamic Republic of Iran
An article appeared titled "The Murderous Mullahs" written by Ann Leslie, a veteran investigative reporter for the British Daily Mail newspaper on pages 18 - 21, dated Saturday 22nd May 2004. In this article, Ann Leslie reported on her recent official visit to the
Islamic Republic of Iran.
The editorial headline stated;
"Few Western reporters are allowed to visit Iran. In this powerful dispatch Ann Leslie paints a horrifying picture of a violent and corrupt dictatorship run by fanatical Muslim fundamentalists."
Section of Ann Leslie's report stated;
"And where converting from Islam to any other religion
is `apostasy' - and therefore punished by death. The Prophet Mohammed said there should be "no compulsion in religion", I pointed out to a black - turbaned mullah in the holy city of Qom `yet you
forbid a Muslim to convert!'
The bearded 35 year old mullah snapped at me: `You are mistaken. There is no compulsion in religion in Iran.' Try telling that dear Mullah Mir Sayeed Mir Mohammed, to the family of the man hanged in
public for converting to the original Iranian religion of
Zoroastrianism."
Malcolm M. Deboo,
Greater London, UK
Information Officer
Zoroastrian Trust Funds of Europe
Off topic, but an urgent reply is required. Please help if you can.
I need to know the link to Cubed's website and his article about philosophy vis a vis the split between Aristotle and Plato.
If anyone can help, my thanks to you.
Moe's Foes
cubed at:
http://www.6thcolumnagainstjihad.com/
Degenerate Artist
Thanks a bunch. I truly appreciate it.
Thanks Mike.
I too checked and the first amendment cover seems quite enough as of now. I'd rather not have libel or discrimination or hate-crime suits biting my ass later on.
Shall try to get the above letter printed in toto in the local paper, that is, if they'll agree to print it at all. Wish me luck.
Osama bin Ladin and 9-11
Isa 9:6 and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this
Khaled posts his link:
And? Let's buy into the argument that this (9/11) is all a hoax.
For the sake of your lame argument, what of all the other blasts that have killed many hundreds, if not thousands, of people?
All across the world.
Is this too a hoax?
Does the prowess of the USA and Russia constitute a hoax?
Was this hoax created just to undermine Islam?
OK. Let's imagine this scenario.
Was this scenario created to eliminate adherents of Islam in order to suck (unrelenting) the oil of the Arab world?
Imagine a nation which straddled the fence of annihilation with another nation for more than forty years.
Both nuclear armed, to the hilt, and ready to blast not only each other, but the rest of the world into "non-existence".
Do you remember?
You know that the ME was used by these two power houses as bases for proxy wars against each other.
You were used. I was used. The world was used.
I got over it and so did the rest of the world.
Can you explain why the ME has not?
Your area may have oil, but by God, we have brains.
Islam followers must be aware...Islam, ever since the 7th Century A.D., is a politically convenient hijacking of Christianity. The Koran was established as a political response, after the Roman Empire recognized the Nicene Creed in 4th Century A.D. Arabs & scholars researched Christianity, and carefully crafted the Koran to suit their ongoing geographical expansionist aspirations to spread Islam & conquer land. Muslims across the world believe in a disingenuous & subtly violent diversion from Christianity. We must encourage all practicing Muslims to find out for themselves, Christianity is the original peacemakers guide.
The agency that owns the site of the World Trade Center in New York says it is suing Saudi Arabia for damages suffered on 11 September 2001.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3646548.stm
The Saudi spread of the intolerant - Wahhabism may eventually cost billions - in compensation for the Western victims of Islamic extremist acts.
قَالَ الإِمَامُ أَحْمَدُ: حَدَّثَنَاإِسْمَاعِيلُ قَالَ أَخْبَرَنَا يُونُسُ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ
Imaam Ahmad said: Ismaa'eel narrated to us that Yoonus
informed us on the authority of al-Hasan
عَنِ الأَسْوَدِ بْنِ سَرِيعٍ قَالَ أَتَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ
on the authority of al-Aswad ibn Saree' who said:
I came to the Messenger of Allaah
sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam
وَغَزَوْتُ مَعَهُ فَأَصَبْتُ ظَهْرًا فَقَتَلَ النَّاسُ يَوْمَئِذٍ حَتَّى قَتَلُوا الْوِلْدَانَ
And I had fought in a battle along with him [?]and I had struck
someone's back[?]. And the people had killed
so fiercely that day that had even killed some children
وَقَالَ مَرَّةً الذُّرِّيَّةَ فَبَلَغَ ذَلِكَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ
And he said once (in one narration): thurriyyah (children/offspring).
So that reached the Messenger of Allaah
sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam
فَقَالَ مَا بَالُ أَقْوَامٍ جَاوَزَهُمُ الْقَتْلُ الْيَوْمَ حَتَّى قَتَلُوا الذُّرِّيَّةَ
So he said: "What is with some people that the killing today
had caused them to go so far as to kill children?!"
فَقَالَ رَجُلٌ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنَّمَا هُمْ أَوْلادُ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَقَالَ
So a man said, "O Messenger of Allaah! They are just
children of the polytheists!" So he said:
أَلا إِنَّ خِيَارَكُمْ أَبْنَاءُ الْمُشْرِكِينَ ثُمَّ قَالَ أَلا لا تَقْتُلُوا ذُرِّيَّةً
"Nay, verily the best of you are the children of polytheists!"
Then he said, "Nay, do not kill children!"
أَلا لا تَقْتُلُوا ذُرِّيَّةً قَالَ كُلُّ نَسَمَةٍ تُولَدُ عَلَى الْفِطْرَةِ
"Nay, do not kill children!" Then he said,
"Every soul is born upon the Fitrah,
حَتَّى يُعْرِبَ عَنْهَا لِسَانُهَا فَأَبَوَاهَا يُهَوِّدَانِهَا وَيُنَصِّرَانِهَا
Up until its tongue speaks on behalf of it,
and its two parents make it a Jew or a Christian."
These "Ex-Muslims" have it all over the "Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism."
If you peruse the "Free Muslim's" website, you will smell a faint scent of apologies for Islam. For instance:
"The Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism does not seek to change the tenets of the religion. However, the Coalition believes that the Koran only provides general principals of governance which leaves the faithful with substantial flexibility to modernize popular Muslim practices and beliefs."
--Modern Islam (upper left of the website)
If you do not change the tenets of the "religion" [quotes mine], you still have jihad--and it is NOT only an "inner struggle."
The "Ex-Muslims" pull no punches. The "Free Muslims" pose a danger to us. We listen to their reasoned arguments and believe that the Koran can be modified. Islam will become "nice." I say, forget it.
We become soft again, "give them a chance," we say. BUT, read their position on Israel. Read their lengthy and somehow apologetic explanation of the whys and wherefores of Wahhabism.
These people might mean well and honestly want to modernize Islam (a hopeless task at best). Before we get all warm and fuzzy inside, however, and clasp them to our bosom, let them show us. Once we see huge masses of "Free Muslims" demonstrating against jihad and the murders resulting from it, we can re-evaluate this reform movement. Until then, all we see is a website, a spokesman, and an attempt to preserve "the tenets of the religion" and at the same time making it more palatable to us infidels.
I go with the "Ex-Muslims." Their letter hits all the right chords. The "Free Muslims" strike some sour notes, at least to my ear. Let me know if you think differently.
Western Muslim leaders (few) are beginning to denounce the ridiculous Jihad violence against unarmed civilians, around the world. This is a very positive development. Will the war on terror eventually inspire Clerics & Mullahs to reform Political (religious rule still exists) & Religious (mostly intolerant) systems in Muslim countries. Power struggles exists between Muslims & non-Muslims, especially between Palestine & Israel, but working toward a non-Jihad solution for the benefit of the people (Israelis & Palestinians) & not the few strong men controlling the money (Arafat), is the surest way to a new Palestinian state, recognized by the world.
erase history, memory, agendas, plans, regrets, emotion, revenge, hate, opportunism, dominance, power, (forget everything…deprogram)…
and go outside
& walk into the populated marketplace,
filled with citizens of many different nations,
will instinctively feel peace & satisfaction,
& converse, laugh, and enjoy this moment.
Everyone:
"Khaled" is "Reza".
SFOD:
Erase history and to paraphrase Santayana you will be forced to repeat it. Only imbeciles such as Peres in Israel have suggested that we forget history and start afresh.
Our enemies have not forgotten about history.
You suggest we forget about 9/11/01, and today is only its 3d anniversary, and walk in the marketplace?
Walk in the marketplace amongst the Arabs/Moslems and you will have your throat slit--UNLESS you are a leftist imbecile wearing a kefiyeh and declaring your solidarity with our enemies.
We must never forget.
unicorns62000,
You are 100% correct!
"is the surest way to a new Palestinian state, recognized by the world".
There should never be a Palistinian State.
Do some research and you will find out why.
unless it is "far" removed from the borders of Isreal
Typo: Israel
Deport that Islamic-bitch to Iran.
Lets see if she can play basketball in a Burka...
Do Iranians play basketball?
Not sure about the basketball but the mullahs play stoning the adulterer, amputating the hands of thieves, hanging teenage girls and a wealth of other healthy muslim sports.
LOVE LIFE - HATE ISLAM !
Unicorns62000
Son of Infidel
Enjoy this ‘moment’ , means…the moment,
realistically, unless you are caring a large rifle into the marketplace with the intension of killing Muslims on spot, you must temporally forget about the revenge…
I am aware of the dangers & I don’t like what I see…Israelis are struck down every day by the hands of Palestinians.
Non-jihad is the only solution…
"intension of killing Muslims on spot, you must temporally forget about the revenge…"
For the Israelis and the rest of the "free" non- Islamic world, it is about survival.
"intension of killing Muslims on spot, you must temporally forget about the revenge…"
For the Israelis and the rest of the "free" non- Islamic world, it is about survival.
Please excuse the double post.