When I speak before audiences that include Muslims in this country, I often find that they deny -- scornfully -- the idea that any Muslims want to establish an Islamic state in the United States. This Chicago Tribune article about the Muslim Brotherhood (thanks to Charles for the link) is less disingenuous.
Over the last 40 years, small groups of devout Muslim men have gathered in homes in U.S. cities to pray, memorize the Koran and discuss events of the day.But they also addressed their ultimate goal, one so controversial that it is a key reason they have operated in secrecy: to create Muslim states overseas and, they hope, someday in America as well.
These men are part of an underground U.S. chapter of the international Muslim Brotherhood, the world's most influential Islamic fundamentalist group and an organization with a violent past in the Middle East. But fearing persecution, they rarely identify themselves as Brotherhood members and have operated largely behind the scenes, unbeknown even to many Muslims.
Still, the U.S. Brotherhood has had a significant and ongoing impact on Islam in America, helping establish mosques, Islamic schools, summer youth camps and prominent Muslim organizations. It is a major factor, Islamic scholars say, in why many Muslim institutions in the nation have become more conservative in recent decades.
Leading the U.S. Brotherhood during much of this period was Ahmed Elkadi, an Egyptian-born surgeon and a former personal physician to Saudi Arabia's King Faisal. He headed the group from 1984 to 1994 but abruptly lost his leadership position. Now he is discussing his life and the U.S. Brotherhood for the first time.
His story, combined with details from documents and interviews, offers an unprecedented look at the Brotherhood in America: how the group recruited members, how it cloaked itself in secrecy and how it alienated many moderate Muslims.
Indeed, because of its hard-line beliefs, the U.S. Brotherhood has been an increasingly divisive force within Islam in America, fueling the often bitter struggle between moderate and conservative Muslims.
Many Muslims believe that the Brotherhood is a noble international movement that supports the true teachings of Islam and unwaveringly defends Muslims who have come under attack around the world, from Chechens to Palestinians to Iraqis. But others view it as an extreme organization that breeds intolerance and militancy.
"They have this idea that Muslims come first, not that humans come first," says Mustafa Saied, 32, a Floridian who left the U.S. Brotherhood in 1998.
While separation of church and state is a bedrock principle of American democracy, the international Brotherhood preaches that religion and politics cannot be separated and that governments eventually should be Islamic. The group also champions martyrdom and jihad, or holy war, as a means of self-defense and has provided the philosophical underpinnings for Muslim militants worldwide.
Many moderate Muslims in America are uncomfortable with the views preached at mosques influenced by the Brotherhood, scholars say. Those experts point to a 2001 study sponsored by four Muslim advocacy and religious groups that found that only a third of U.S. Muslims attend mosques.
In suburban Bridgeview, Ill., some moderates say they quit attending the Mosque Foundation because the leadership became too conservative and dominated by Brotherhood members.
Documents obtained by the Tribune and translated from Arabic show that the U.S. Brotherhood has been careful to obscure its beliefs from outsiders. One document tells leaders to be cautious when screening potential recruits. If the recruit asks whether the leader is a Brotherhood member, the leader should respond, "You may deduce the answer to that with your own intelligence."
Islamic state a long-term goal
Brotherhood members emphasize that they follow the laws of the nations in which they operate. They stress that they do not believe in overthrowing the U.S. government, but rather that they want as many people as possible to convert to Islam so that one day--perhaps generations from now--a majority of Americans will support a society governed by Islamic law. Muslims make up less than 3 percent of the U.S. population, but estimates of their number vary widely from 2 million to 7 million.
Federal authorities say they have scrutinized the U.S. Brotherhood for years. Agents currently are investigating whether people with ties to the group have raised and laundered money to finance terrorism abroad. No terrorism-related charges have been filed.
Former leader Elkadi, who has been questioned at length by federal authorities about the inner workings of the Brotherhood, says the group has served Muslims in the United States well. He personally helped establish an Islamic community in the Florida Panhandle, with a mosque, school and health clinic. And though he eventually lost it all--even his medical license--some Muslims still view him as a great Islamic leader.
"Islam is for everyone," he says. "It's good for America, good for Muslims too. . . . It's good knowledge, and good knowledge should be available to everyone."
Mohammed Mahdi Akef, head of the international Muslim Brotherhood, based in Egypt, lauds Elkadi and the activities of the U.S. Brotherhood.
"They have succeeded in saving the younger generations from melting into the American lifestyle without faith," he says. "They have saved their children."
There is much more of interest in this piece. Read it all.
Mosques = Safehouses
http://www.shariahprogram.ca/
The above hyperlink shows the Muslim Brotherhood is right on schedule in Canada,CAIR
has a post demanding Shariah-Law for Muslims in Canada and the also demand un-censored Al-Jazeera
on Canadian DTH (direct to home) Dish services.
While the Government is reviewing the implimentation of a separate Islamic Court,the Saudis have already funded the website above and
you'll see that the Wahabbism style Shariah will be extracted to reflect the teachings in Madrasa's
around the Islamic world.
CAIR has already decided that Canada needs Quranic Laws to be a humane and just society,CAIR
endorses the Hijab since one leader named Sheema Khan backs Shariah and now heads a Civil Liberties
Board dealing with human rights in Canada.
Islamic groups still demand prayer rooms in Universities,they now want Muslim Doctor's to
treat or see other Muslims,schools to have Halal
menu's,and the real tragic irony is they now brag
that the Muslim jail population is so high that the Canadian Government hired a Imam to hold services for these peaceful,law abiding,tolerant followers of Muhammed.
The Saudis know it's much easier to take over Canada from within since we have no Military and
the Liberals think appeasing Terrorists will avoid being the next victim of global Jihad.
Al-Qaeda and Osama have made it clear that the Christian nation of Canada is guilty for the high standards of living while Islamic Countries suffer
poverty and war. Christian Nations back the Jews and we deserve to get the wrath of Allah,also the story I heard on TV is that the West stold their Knowledge from Islam and have prospered whild becoming spiritualy weak.
This meant that the West must turn back to Allah and stop living by Man-made laws and bring back Quranic values.
I have no doubt that if the leftists were in charge the next attack would slaughter 100 times
the numbers on 9/11 .
NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE
This issue has to be confronted and made front page news. Once the straight questions start being asked and answers start being demanded, the path the US needs to take will become clear to the entire population.
Moose
Canadian Liberals believe that if you give muslims every opportunity to "blend" into the Canadian society, then they will realise how "kind" we are and be good, moderate citizens. I have talked to so many people here in Canada that truly believe this is a wise choice.
It is far worse up here than in America. Canadians still look at themselves and ask, "What did we do to make these people so angry to attack on 9/11? Oh, it must be those Americans who impose their will on the world. Well, we don't do that so we are safe from such an attack.".
Ignorance is rampant and most people have a long way to go before they see reality. There was even an attempt in a city just outside Toronto to have speakers set up on a mosque so they could broadcast the calls to prayer...
I fear for my country and its slumber.
Moose
A very interesting and informative piece. Anywhere in the world, behind-the-scene Muslims are truly the most dangerous as they persuade through example, in the halls of power and through the manipulation of the courts and of schools and universities. However, most do no understand the far-reaching effect and changes that will be wrought if Islam gains influence.
While America focuses on finding terror bombers, and following the money trail through charities, these people are silently and insidiously moving to overthrow us through conversion or through a power grab. They made their intention clear decades ago. THEY are more dangerous than the terror bombers.
"They stress that they do not believe in overthrowing the U.S. government, but rather that they want as many people as possible to convert to Islam so that one day--perhaps generations from now--a majority of Americans will support a society governed by Islamic law. "
At any rate, they won't have to "overthrow" the U.S. government, since most memebers of Congress and both presidential candidates have done everything possible to accomodate these people.
The fact that they have "...been watched by the FBI for years ..." yet are still around is a very strong indicator that Bush the current administration has NO PLANS WHAT SO EVER of actually defeating this enemy.
"Muslims make up less than 3 percent of the U.S. population, but estimates of their number vary widely from 2 million to 7 million."
Much larger than that since the administration is allowing and encouraging these people to come to the U.S. Besides, that Saudi oil money speaks louder than any US citizen.
Putin's assessment of the West is correct -- and it is a damn shame.
Hopefully, Russia at least, will have the guts to rid itself of the islamic murders regardless of whether or not Bush, Blair. and all of their globalist-pc-minded-cornies like it or not!
Keep Muslim Bros under strict surveillance. Find it strange that Muslim countries of origin outlaw
or imprison this dangerous sect yet the West allows the Bastards in to spread their poison...
Bernard Lewis said that Europe will become muslim by the end of the 21st century. I wonder when America will become muslim?
witness and Morgane, You both have just said what I've been thinking for a long time. Thanks.
Voltaire says:
Bernard Lewis said that Europe will become muslim by the end of the 21st century. I wonder when America will become muslim?
Answer: It is not in our destiny to "become" anything less than we are.
Degenerate artist:
I know. I was in a defeatist mood when I said that. But I was thinking though: how does anyone counter the fact that muslims have a higher birthrate than non-muslims?
If Europe one day will be swamped by muslims, then surely America and Australia will also be swamped by muslims, one day too.
Voltaire:
how does anyone counter the fact that muslims have a higher birthrate than non-muslims?
Nature allows higher birthrates to groups with higher mortality rates.
The fact that they have "...been watched by the FBI for years ..." yet are still around is a very strong indicator that Bush the current administration has NO PLANS WHAT SO EVER of actually defeating this enemy.
You keep organizations under surveillence to gather intelligence in order to defeat them.Keeping the Muslim Brotherhood under surveillence and gathering information is exactly what you want to do. Here's a qutoe from "Reckless Disregard" on the importance of intelligence.
"As most in the military will tell you, intelligence is the key to success or failure. Good, reliable intelligence translates to victories on the battlefield. Wrong or insufficient inelligence translates into defeat. Soldiers live or die based on the intellegence they receive."
It's no accident that Muslim fanatics have not been able to pull off another attack in the US since 9/11 good intelligence work by the Bush administration has been an important part in stopping them.The Muslim brotherhood and other Islamic organizations try to go under the radar to keep western governments from finding out their motives and operations, because knowledge is power and the key to their distruction.
The belief in the need to conduct Da'wa (or efforts at conversion), to work for the islamization of the rest of the world, is part of mainstream Islam. It would be surprising if the islamization of the United States were not the goal of Muslims in America. What is surprising is the unawareness of this by Infidels, and their lack of alarm -- criminal negligence, given what the growing Muslim presence, so expensive, and dangerous, in Western Europe, given the relentless attempts at conversion (every Muslim is supposed to be a missionary spreading the faith -- quite different from Christians)everywhere Muslims live -- efforts not inhibited in the slightest either by the indigenous non-Muslims, who ought to be moving heaven and earth to make things as difficult as possible for the conduct of Da'wa, and ought to be doing everything they can to demoralize, and then win over, Believers. All it takes is constant and unfoolable and unflappable repetition of the truth about the political, economic, intellectual, and moral failures of Islam.
Voltaire,
We cannot afford to have a defeatist attitude. That is the intent of jihadist's propaganda that keeps repeating endlessly that we will all be Moslems. That this is inevitable.
We must at all times retain a positive attitude, confident that we can and will win the struggle against their ideology of evil.
By pounding the same line into the consciousness of those they wish to subjugate, Moslems try to win the psychological war. They hope that non-Moslems finally will tire and find it easier to submit than to fight.
One of the purposes of this website and of this forum is for us, fighters against Islam, to energize each other and keep our spirits up, even when because of our governments and unaware fellow-citizens it is an uphill battle.
Remember the words of your 18th century namesake: "Everything is possible in this the most possible of all possible worlds."
It is necessary not only to resist but to agressively fight Islam with whatever means at hand.
Right now, the biggest obstacle we face are our fellow citizens that still view Islam as just another religion. Many of them also know some "nice" Moslems.
We must convince people such as my friend who told me in outrage how someone had dared tell her that Islam was a dangerous ideology and that Moslems want to turn the United States into an Islamic Republic.
"I told him I did not want to hear anything of the sort." she said. "We have good friends who happen to be Moslems and they are the nicest people you ever want to meet."
Now, how do you go about telling her that her friends might be as nice as the next, but the ideology they call their religion demands that it makes the whole world Islamic?
This will not be easy. Our governments will not do it. It is up to us.
There IS a way to go about changing such peoples' minds. I am working on a procedure for this delicate task. Ideas and suggestions would be most welcome. When completed, we can have some trial runs and exchange results.
Making our citizenry aware of jihadist danger is preferable to debating with Moslems.
You can't win 'em over. How could they accept that what they believe is an ill-organized set of rules thought up to control men for conquest and plunder?
Why, their whole world-view would collapse; they would be left without a ready-made structure of reference--they would have to think for themselves. Having left an ideology only suitable for robbers, for killing and plunder, they will have to learn anew what is right and what is wrong.
They will have to learn rules of morality suitable for all humans, not only for those that believe in an invisible idol, that according to its fabricator demands belief in it or death.
Our job is to convince our fellow non-Moslems that Islam is an ideology hidden under the mantle of religion. That it is at war with us. If it wins, we will have the option to convert, live as sub-humans, or be killed.
How do we counter the effect of the smiling and beguiling faces of "really nice people" that we know to be dangerous because they are Muslim? We are in a quandry because reasonable people are expected to accept nice people that behave well and be tolerant of religious and cultural differences. "I'll hear none of that" is a phrase that I also hear. And as Unicorn6200 has stated, we need to develop techniques to be able to instruct reasonable people about the unreasonableness and danger of Islam. Any suggestions?
"You keep organizations under surveillence to gather intelligence in order to defeat them.
Keeping the Muslim Brotherhood under surveillence and gathering information is exactly what you want to do.
Here's a qutoe from "Reckless Disregard" on the importance of intelligence."
They have been "under surveileence:; identified as a credible threat to the existence of a nation; and have ZERO plans for peaceful co-existence.
Destroy them BEFORE they destroy you.
I no longer believe that those who run the government have any such plans, but will "contain, manage, and appease" the enemy.
Therefore I will concede that this group will be allowed to continue; flourish; and with the help of members of congress and both political camps --may one day enjoy running the country.
Even now, there are plans afoot to change the Constitution of the US just so "Arnold" can be president.
If they can do it for "Arnold," they will more than happy to do it for the Saudi oil cash.
Come to think of it, it will be interesting indeed to see how the PC liberals will do under shariah. My prediction -- ironically, the pc liberals will lose their heads over the matter within the first week if shariah ever comes to pass.
What will it take for society to wake up and remove the blinders of political correctness? When will our society develop a consensus regarding this threat that transcinds party lines and distinctions between conservative and liberal? Political correctness has allowed the jihadists to divide the West and even divide the U.S. What will it take to convince them that you must fight your enemy rather than try to seduce them into peace. The seduction approach to peace espoused by Europeans and the American Left is clearly the wrong approach with an enemy that hates you for who you are and everything you stand for. Sadly, the body count on our side at this stage is too low to force them to abandon their embrace of political correctness.
We still are not fighting an all out war against Islamic facism. We're still showing remarkable restraint--far more restraint than they would ever show toward us. If they possessed the ability to obliterate us like we can them, we would've been vaporized long ago.
So, again, what will it take? I think much of political correctness is based on the assumption of their being a moderate Muslim silent majority. Does this exist? A silent, moderate majority that's afraid to speak out for fear of retribution from the not-so-moderates? Is this indeed the case? The existence of a moderate Muslim silent majority is the very premise of our strategy in Iraq--it would be likewise if we were to attempt regime change in Iran during Bush's second term. If the existence of a moderate Muslim silent majority is a fiction, then all bets are off for success in Iraq. Indeed, all bets for peace with the Muslim world are off.
If the Left ever comes to believe that the existence of a moderate Muslim silent majority, patiently awaiting liberation so they speak freely, simply DOES NOT EXIST...then this would be the first step toward ridding the political divide and ridding ourselves of political correctness and THEN we can start waging a real war.
The fact that they have "...been watched by the FBI for years ..." yet are still around is a very strong indicator that Bush the current administration has NO PLANS WHAT SO EVER of actually defeating this enemy.
Hmmm. Who else does the FBI watch?
The KKK.
The National Alliance (hopefully!)
Farakhan and cronies.
The new Black Panthers.
How many other groups? I don't know. But I suspect it takes a Lot of rope to hang these bastards, in a country increasingly screwed over by the likes of the ACLU, who work to make things even more difficult for the intelligence agencies.
I for one hope they do Not make an exemption for Arnold. He may be a good man, but too many others would slip thru such an amendment and we have enough power grabbers out there already. I mean, look how many were fielded in the presidential campaign agaist Bush this past year....
From the story: "They have this idea that Muslims come first, not that humans come first," says Mustafa Saied, 32, a Floridian who left the U.S. Brotherhood in 1998.
Certainly two different entities
1. Humans
2. Muslims
Mosques = Safehouses
Posted by: Degenerate Artist at September 19, 2004 02:52 PM
Mosks = potential targets at "salat" time.
They have been "under surveileence:; identified as a credible threat to the existence of a nation; and have ZERO plans for peaceful co-existence.
Destroy them BEFORE they destroy you.
I no longer believe that those who run the government have any such plans, but will "contain, manage, and appease" the enemy.
The Muslim Brotherhood has been around for a long time almost 100 years operating primarily in the ME. The MB has proven incompetent and ineffective in their attempts to overthrow the governments of Egypt and Syria and create a pan-Islamic state.Al Qaeda's second in command Ayman al-Zawahiri was a member of the brotherhood in Egypt until he was arrested, tortured, ratted out other consiprators and then fled from Egypt to join Osama. Syria's Hafez Assad killed 20,000 members of the Muslim brotherhood who led an uprising in the 1980s to overthrow his government. A group that was crushed in Egypt and Syria is not going to overthrow the government of the United States.The US knows exactly what the MB is about as do most in the ME and Europe. The reason the US government keeps groups like the MB under surveillence is not only to see what they are up to but who else they might lead the government to.This is done every day in places like Isreal, Egypt and the UK. It's how terrorist plots are uncovered and defeated.Such tactics have nothing to do with "appeasement" or "containment".