Parvez Ahmed of CAIR complains in the Seattle Times (thanks to Peter Rockas) that his religion is misunderstood, and that he gets hate mail (sometime I'll have to show you my email box, Parvez):
Each round of beheading brings with it condemnations from Muslim groups, both in America and abroad. Muslim groups keep condemning the brutal acts of terror, partly because it is the right thing to do but also partly to protect their community from backlash.Each condemnation from Muslim groups is inevitably preceded by bone-chilling hate mail from people who, like the terrorists, hide behind anonymity. It is almost mind-numbing to think that both groups believe God is on their side.
Islam does not teach such wanton violence no matter what the level of grievance is for the aggrieved. There is no doubt that Iraqis and Chechens have a lot to be angry about. They have not just paid in blood but in lost human dignity. But their legitimate grievances do not justify the illegitimate and barbaric acts of beheading innocent souls and planting bombs in schools.
The fact that many, if not most, Americans view Islam as the enemy is not surprising. This unfortunate view is perhaps a reaction to the actions of a deranged group of Muslims who kill indiscriminately, contrary to Islam's central message of sanctifying and purifying life.
But equally undeniable is the fact that current attitudes toward Islam are a result of generations of ignorance about a world religion, which the West has demonized for too long and thus finds itself ill-prepared to understand, much less deal with the legitimate aspirations of its many adherents.
This misunderstanding is also at the heart of repeated demands made to the American-Muslim community to condemn every gruesome act that takes place overseas. It is not enough that all major American-Muslim groups condemned the 9/11 terrorist attacks less than three hours after the planes hit the first tower. It is not enough that a major American-Muslim group took out an ad in The Washington Post condemning terror. It is not enough that each gruesome act that shocked Americans — from the murder of Daniel Pearl to the bombing of a seder party to the beheading of Nick Berg to the massacre in Beslan — has equally shocked Muslims and brought swift and unequivocal condemnations. It is not enough that an online petition, "Not in the Name of Islam," garnered over 700,000 signatories.
What do repeated condemnations achieve anyway? They have not satisfied our many detractors and more importantly they have failed to make any impression on the terrorists. Does someone legitimately believe that a faceless, stateless and mindless group of people will be swayed by intellectual appeals to reason?
Well, sir, one reason why these condemnations are not satisfactory either to your "detractors" or to the terrorists is because they fail utterly to address the Islamic justifications that buttress the terrorists' actions. You go on to ask rhetorically: "If bone-chilling cries of a helpless and defenseless human being moves nothing in their souls, what meaning do words from sacred texts have for them?"
Actually, sir, I think that words from sacred texts, if they really refute the terrorists' own words from the same sacred texts, are likely to move them more than the bone-chilling cries of a helpless and defenseless human being. Why? Because they have repeatedly declared that they are working from those sacred texts: that those sacred texts command them to do such things to helpless and defenseless human beings. The problem is not that they won't listen to sacred texts. The problem is that they are listening so hard to sacred texts that command such actions. Your own "words from sacred texts" don't refute their own arguments from the same texts, and that, sir, is the real reason why your attempts are ineffective.
I have yet to see a "moderate Muslim" even attempt to confront and refute the real Islamic arguments that terrorists use to justify their actions. Mr. Ahmed, why don't you be the first?
Among the root causes are perceptions that U.S. policy turns a blind eye to the legitimate aspirations of Muslims who desire to live in freedom — with dignity, and in control of their own destiny. Our continued support of brutal dictatorships, even as we toppled one, have a lot to do with the current rage.Muslim societies also need to be introspective of their socio-political-religious structures and examine how the situation evolved to a point that life has lost all its meaning. Blaming America first is not going to absolve them of their own shortcomings.
Indeed. Nor are hollow claims that appeals to Islam won't move these men whose whole lives are, by their own account, based on Islamic principles. Why don't you confront those principles, Mr. Ahmed?
"Islamic dignity" - isn't that an oxymoron ?
Ahmed and Mr.Hooper just don't get it,the 5 million Muslims in America are only 0.0008 percent of the worlds 1.2 billion.
Did CAIR ever look in the mirror and ask if the other 99.9992 percent are the "True" Muslims and they have it all wrong. CAIR has yet to afford the claim of innocent until proven guilty when attacking non-Muslims in the USA,hell Cats Stevens
now claims he's been a victim of injustice and islamophobia.
I can see why Islamic Nation don't waste their money on courts of justice,the Quran makes it clear who the guilty are and what must be done to please Allah.
The problem is, they want to control everybody else's destiny as well. And if you don't agree, they make it clear that they intend to kill you, your family, your neighbors and fellow citizens who don't go along with their program. It's their religious duty to God. It's the only play in their playbook. It's not their fault, they we're born into it. It's all they know.
Deconstruction is fun!
Muslim groups keep condemning the brutal acts of terror, partly because it is the right thing to do but also partly to protect their community from backlash.
A.k.a. "taqiyya." And of course it is easy to "condemn terror" since the Arab League has declared that there is no such thing as a terrorism against Israel, it's all "freedom fighting."
And the one thing that protects the Muslim American community from backlash, unlike the dhimmi communities all over the Ummah, is the RULE OF LAW and the US CONSTITUTION. The writer should feel damn lucky he isn't a Hindu living in Bangladesh or a Jew living in Tehran.
Each condemnation from Muslim groups is inevitably preceded by bone-chilling hate mail from people who, like the terrorists, hide behind anonymity.
And people like Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq, and anyone else that doesn't want to wind up like Salmon Rushdie?
The fact that many, if not most, Americans view Islam as the enemy is not surprising.
Especially since we are a literate society and can all read for ourselves the violent expansion of Islam recorded in the Koran, the Hadiths, and the memoirs of the Arab Muslims who invaded Africa, Anatolia, Israel, Lebanon, Persia and India. Don't worry... Grover Norquist, James Baker, and many a missionary Koran thumber sent to America are diligently working to excuse all of that.
This unfortunate view is perhaps a reaction to the actions of a deranged group of Muslims who kill indiscriminately,
.... like Mohamed, his immediate followers, and all of their followers, etc. all the way up to Osama, the Jangaweed, Abu Sayaf, Islam Jamiyah, the Mujahadin of Kashmir, Omar Bakri, the Chechen "rebels", the PLO et al., the Taliban, and the "tiny minority of Muslim extremists" calling for jihad in every muslim nation in Africa and Asia.
...in contrary to Islam's central message of sanctifying and purifying life. ... which means, demanding (under threat of murder) that everyone live their lives just like Mohamed ordered it in the 6th century.
It is not enough that.... (blah blah blah blah oink oink)
NO, IT ISN'T ENOUGH. It isn't enough. Nothing will excuse the fact that Muslim crazies, driven crazy by Islam, committed 9-11 and have killed hundreds of millions of other people through the ages. I would be happy only if you all renounced ISLAM itself, and became atheists or adopted a peaceful cult that doesn't think they should take over the world. But at least YOU are still alive, unlike 3000 New Yorkers who's only crime was going to work. Your "mass condemnations" are obligatory at best and you said yourself (in the first paragraph of your propaganda, see above) that they are "partly" to protect your community from backlash. This way you can keep making your daughters wear a head-to-toe shapeless black (or tres chic off-grey) tent to "protect" them from the "lusty, Satanic, decadent Americans". Even though WE think it is a joke, and YOU are the guys that invented this type of "modesty" to protect "your" women, long before you came in contact with "Western decadence."
Among the root causes are perceptions that U.S. policy turns a blind eye to the legitimate aspirations of Muslims who desire to live in freedom — with dignity, and in control of their own destiny.
That should say ... INSANE aspirations of Muslim FANATICS who DEMAND to live in PRIVILEGE - with ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY, and in control of EVERYONE'S destiny. For proof, just see what happened to Iran, Lebanon, northern Nigeria, Malaysia, or Ramallah when Muslims were given free reign.
That's funny... US policy turned a blind eye toward the black South Africans who desired to live in freedom - with dignity, and in control of their own destiny, no less. And I can't remember anyone from Nelson Mandella's camp sending suicide bombers out to massacre white housewives in the crowded markets of Port Elizabeth or Johanesburg.
For decades, U.S. policy turned a blind eye toward the black American Christians who desired to live in freedom - with dignity, and in control of their own destiny. And there were no reports of black people shooting white women and children while screaming "God is great!" or blowing up buses full of white people.... and goddam! just imagine a gang of black boys in the 50s or 60s taking on the US Army or a police force by throwing rocks at the soldiers/policmen... that is absurd to even consider. Or consider a group of Hindus in Pakistan sending their kids out to throw rocks at the Pakistani army... it would be a massacre. Of course, Muslims in Israel can do this, and do so with impugnity.
U.S. policy turned a blind eye toward the Aboriginies of Australia, the Hindus of British India, the black people of pretty-much every Africa country, and none of those people ever sent out suicide bombers, targetted American tourist for murder, kidnapped and beheaded Americans (remember the Philippines missionaries), or hijacked US planes and crashed them into our greatest buildings.
For some reason, the vast majority of people that feel sooooo agrieved that they JUST HAVE to strike back at whoever is convenient, are Muslims. Perhaps it is due to indoctrinating them into a cult of murder and paranoia from an early age, telling them how oppressed and held down they are, and blaming it all on the Jews/Americans/Russians/Christians/Hindus/etc. (or whichever local infidels apply.) And of course, overpopulation makes it so much worse, but any attempt to introduce birth control or the right for a woman to refuse sex with her husband is quickly denounced as "a war on Islam" and we know what happens next, eh?
Our continued support of brutal dictatorships, even as we toppled one, have a lot to do with the current rage.
No, it doesn't. It has nothing to do with the rage. "The current rage" like the rage felt by all "aggrieved Mulslims" since Mohamed has primarily to do with force-feeding people an imagined oppression their entire life, in every part of their lives: at home, in the church, at work, in politics, in popular entertainment, and in the media. It has to do with a history of violent expansion and constant reprisal when the expansion is stopped. It has to do with a feeling of moral and spiritual superiority that excuses any and all behavior, from taqiyya to bribery, from shooting children in the back to rape and genocide, from using catapults and burning pitch on civilians to nuclear bombs, as long as the end result is an expansion of Islam or a defeat for the people "despised by Allah."
And exactly which brutal dictatorships are we supporting? The one in Suadi Arabia, where the people think the Saudi Laws "aren't strict enough"?!? Or the one in Pakistan, which if left to the voters would be led by Bin Laden and hit India and Israel with nukes the next week? Oh, I know. He means the "dictatorship" in Israel, the reason for all the muslim violence all over the world.
Here we go again with the quote, "700,000 signatures." Big damn deal. There's 5 million Muslims in America and 1.2 billion in the world, and you want us to be impressed with 5 million signatories?
Why doesn't CAIR do like Muslims do with other numbers, and add to it every time they mention it? They should start saying they got "nearly a million signatures" and then in a few months they could say "a million signatures" and a few months later say "over a million signatures"... eventually they could say "one-and-a-half million" then "nearly two million," "over two million" etc.
This is the way they talk about the world muslim population, last year it was 1.2 billion, now it is (I have seen Reza say it) 1.3 billion... soon it will be 1.5 billion. (By the way I have no doubt in my mind the number is increasing, but it isn't increasing that fast.)
Likewise the "Sabra and Chatilla Massacres" where about 600 mostly-terrorist Muslims were killed by Christians became "800 men, women, and children killed by militias allowed in by the IDF" and then "nearly a thousand men, women, and children killed under Ariel Sharon's direction" and I have even seen Arafat apologists cite the number as high as 1,600, "killed by Ariel Sharon, the Butcher of Beirut"! Of course the next step is to claim it was "nearly two-thousand" and that they were all personally beheaded by Ariel Sharon, who made them dig a heads-and-bodies ditch in the marketplace... and then he let his men rape the female and little boy survivors...etc. etc.
It is almost mind-numbing to think that both groups believe God is on their side.
Yes, I imagine it is very easy for you to feel "mind numbed." I mean, if you can convince yourself that a perverted old lecherous wretch, a mass murderer, a pedophilic boylover, a slave raider, a genocidal monster, and a racist froth-mouthed anti-Semite is a holy prophet, it wouldn't take much to go make you mind go numb, would it?
All people that think "God is on MY side!" are fools. If God is on your side, why would you have to expend any effort at all?
It is soooo easy to win an argument when truth is on your side. I miss college. I used to be able to do this live, in person, with jihadi apologists at least once a week.
And I wan't anonymous.
kj:
You impress me, and that's no small feat.
When you keep the partisan political element out of your posts, you're just so damned good!
Nothing short of them coming out to declare that the Qur’an needs to be reformed and certain passages removed. Then and only then can we as Americans start to have any trust of our Moslem brother. But even then we could not turn our backs on Islam. How would we know whether Islam was being sincere? Only time would tell if their sincerity was true. The Moslem must understand they have a long history of terrorism to live down.
They follow Mohammed, we all know what kind of character he had. I am not sure how the Moslem can rectify this. But they can start by rewriting the Qur’an.
The Moslem also needs to speak out and tell America that Islam does not want to take over. But we all know that would be a lie!
Islam is a form of Government not just a religion.
The problem Parvez Ahmed of CAIR must endure is not that Islam is misunderstood. We understand it quite well, for exactly what it is, and that is driving these apologists nuts.
The more I read and hear from people like Parvez Ahmed of CAIR, the more impressed I am with the great similarity of their thinking with that of modern American liberals. Both hate reality and truth, which is the recognition of reality. Both want things to be certain ways (often the same way), regardless of whether reality permits these desired ways or not. Both whine about the horribleness of their lives, how picked on they are. Both want collectivist social systems, with them in charge, and the rest of us to pay the bills and do the work. Both hate certainty because they can't bend it to their wishes. Both hate moral certainty the most of all because such identifies them for what they are, and using the principle of justice, judges them -- they are always found wanting. Both have a chronic mood state of miserableness, because they have such a malevolent sense of life. And why shouldn't they have such a sense of life? Afterall, they expect reality to conform to them, so they war with reality all the time; reality makes them pay. Without garnering enough physical force to compel people directly via swords or indirectly via laws, these two groups would barely make it to the soup kitchen.
Kj... Good stuff
Wow kj, am bowled over.
Shall henceforth look fwd to reading your posts alongwith Hugh's.
:)
kj,
thank you.
the following bit of the article sounds like a refrain, going through the public sphere of any Western country at least weekly, repeated by Muslims and their Western apologists alike:
"But equally undeniable is the fact that current attitudes toward Islam are a result of generations of ignorance about a world religion, which the West has demonized for too long and thus finds itself ill-prepared to understand, much less deal with the legitimate aspirations of its many adherents."
Of course the "current attitudes" of the West toward Islam are a result of ignorance, if we mean by current attitudes the tolerance and acceptance that is still dominant. Sadly for Parvez, the more we learn the more negative our attitudes become (wasn't exactly what he meant, perhaps, but that's how it is)
And obviously the West doesn't need to "demonize" Islam, Muslims are too good at it themselves.
Completely agree with Parvez that the West is ill prepared to deal with what he calls the "legitimate aspirations" of many Muslims. I hope we'll be getting better at that, soon.
CAIR Canada is the same way,rather than feel sympathy and compassion for victims of beheadings or mass slaughter in the name of Islam,CAIR seems more concerned about Muslims having their feelings hurt from Islam being misrepresented.
There's just one problem with CAIR's comdemnations,they add the infamous "BUT" and
explain away the violence as defending Islam or
freedom fighting against Israel.
The Muslims that claim the USA is only creating more terrorists are really exposing the Quran
for what it is. To assume Muslims will become terrorists from a perceived injustice implies they are predisposed to murder and violence.
It would take an awful lot of abuse for me to willingly slaughter a planeload of people that had nothing to do with my paranoia and denial.
Are Muslim that quick to resort to murder and violence?,could CAIR be right that Muslims wait for the chance to be offended so they can murder Gods children for the glory of Allah.
If you want to see real racism,sit in a Courtroom and watch a lilly-white, wealthy Judge
give a light sentence to a Black criminal,the Judge is really saying that Africans can't help it and they shouldn't be expected to live by the same ethics and morals of non-Blacks in the North American culture. A special dispensation should be given to visible minorities because they can't help it but turn to violence because of the white-mans oppression.
Hey,I'm overweight,maybe when I end up in Court my lawyer will aegue that fat people can't help it and shouldn't be held to the same standard as thin people for obeying the Laws of the land.
NO CAIR - KNOW FREEDOM
KJ,
APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE!
Dam good rebuttle.
kj's finale is:
"I miss college. I used to be able to do this live, in person, with jihadi apologists at least once a week."
Let me just say that you haven't lost your ability.
A most excellent post which stirred the logic of my inner being to exclaim, "YES! Now that is truth!"
Keep it up.
"current attitudes toward Islam are a result of generations of ignorance about a world religion"
No, the current attitudes toward Islam are a result of the current atrocities done in the name of Islam - you know, all the mass murder and destruction and stuff we're not too keen on in civilized society.
Before 9/11 I was ignorant of Islam. I thought it was just a Middle Eastern religion where people dressed odd and didn't eat pork and they prayed in mosques. I travelled thru Egypt and Turkey and was blissfully ignorant of Islam. I was there for the antiquities and the scenery, not Islam. I didn't even know they prayed 5 times a day, never heard of jihad, and would have been disbelieving of all the silly restrictions on their lives. 9/11 removed that cloak of ignorance.
"... which the West has demonized for too long..."
Bullsh**! I don't recall any demonization for any period of time. As I mentioned, most people were completely in the dark about Islam, and most people didn't care about Islam. You can't demonize something you don't talk about or don't even notice. Until 9/11 we didn't notice or demonize Islam. Since then, heck yeah! We've been demonizing it because it deserves every bit of that demonization. It's a demonic belief system. It's so demonic and evil, it still amazes me.
Yes, and great post, kj. I've pasted it to a Word document, to use for future arguments against brainwashed Islamics and their braindead apologists. Some people have a gift for putting points across well. I don't. You do.
kj,
Wow all I have to say is well said, very well said.
feralee,
I agree with you, the general public is very much in the dark once it comes to Islam. I was one of them un until recently.
And unfortunately many will remain in the dark, thanks to Islam's apologists who are everywhere - in our governments, in our schools, in our media, in our churches. It's not so much the taqiya/kitman-practising Islamics that worry me. They wouldn't have much of a voice nor any legitimacy if it weren't for our groveling appeasers and apologists amongst us.
The ones giving the taqiya masters airtime on the tv and radio and print in the papers.
The ones poisoning our childrens' minds in school.
The silly priests and ministers who insist on their flock giving Islam a great big group hug, and stupidly expecting one back.
The government for whoring themselves for the Muslim vote and giving into their demands, such as Sharia, and disallowing criticism of Islam, and special exclusive use of public facilities.
It would be an easier battle against Islamic propaganda and disinformation if we weren't battling our own side at the same time. But, bit by bit. These sites are fantastic. Turn on everyone you know to them. Email the urls to everyone in your email address books. Spread the word. Our future depends on it.
Yes, I imagine it is very easy for you to feel "mind numbed." I mean, if you can convince yourself that a perverted old lecherous wretch, a mass murderer, a pedophilic boylover, a slave raider, a genocidal monster, and a racist froth-mouthed anti-Semite is a holy prophet, it wouldn't take much to go make you mind go numb, would it?
LOL, kj I love your choice of adjectives! Their mind numbness is universal and inherent, poor deluded creatures. I'm still trying to figure out their brainwashing techniques. How do they do it? I could understand the collective ignorance of muslims before they were exposed to Western culture en masse via travel, internet, or media. They knew nothing else, were exposed to nothing else, had no other choices.It seems that while many are captivated by Western culture and almost hypnotically attracted to it, they are capable of violently, suddenly rejecting it and joining the jihad, like the flip of a switch.
One thing is certain; once the seed of Islamic insanity has been planted within a muslim, it could germinate any time. Even the most "moderate" muslim is a walking timebomb.
The dissimulators from CAIR are not worried about American ignorance and misunderstanding of Islam. They're terrified because too many of us know the truth, despite their massive propaganda and revisionist history campaigns. It should be interesting to see how they attempt to silence the voices of truth.
I don't remember when or where I read this but it was a statement made by a CAIR official and to paraphrase, he said: "It is imperative for Islam to win over hate in America. We cannot lose America to hate." I interpret this to mean that muslims must deceive Americans with taqqiya or whatever deceptive means are necessary to convince them that Islam poses no threat.
Isn't it strange that other minority religions do not find it necessary to form dozens of advocacy groups to defend their religions and followers in America? Only Islam.
I have to admit to being among the ignorant concerning Islam before 9/11. I was a blank slate. While our educational system may have skimped on the topic of religion, that certainly beats the curriculum in the madrasas. I recall a few months after 9/11 one of the American Muslim PR outfits was absolutely gushing about the dramatic increase in requests for information about Islam. They seemed to feel it was just great that so many people wanted to learn about this fantastic belief system. (I hesitate to call it a religion because from what I read on Islamic sites it's more a "way of life" bent on controlling politics and government by means of religion (though its manifestations of this appear to be a commitment to domination, chaos, and brutality.) It never occurred to the PR outfits that the increased interest in Islam might be the simple behavior of learning about the enemy who attacked you. Well said, KJ. I, too, saved that post.
Not bad, Keith! I take it you were on the Republican Debate team?