At last, an AP story that actually identifies the Russian school terrorists as Muslim jihadists. (Thanks to LGF.) Of course, if you were reading Jihad Watch as long ago as last November, you already knew this.
MOSCOW - Rebels linked to the school hostage-taking seek independence from Russia and most want to make Chechnya a sovereign Muslim nation.The first war between Chechen rebels and Russian forces in the past decade had less of a religious element than the current conflict, which began in September 1999.
In the 1994-96 war, separatists led by Chechen President Dzhokhar Dudayev appeared to be driven primarily by centuries of resentment of Russia, whose czarist army subjugated the region, and its Soviet successor, whose dictator Josef Stalin ordered the wholesale deportation of Chechens to Central Asia in 1944.
Although most Chechens are Muslim, Aslan Maskhadov, who became president of Chechnya after Russian forces withdrew in 1996, was seen as relatively secular. However, he came under increasing pressure from radical Islamic factions led by warlord Shamil Basayev and eventually declared Sharia law, or Islamic law, an idea that has less support among the public at large than it does among the rebels.
Basayev was a leader of the Chechen insurgents who mounted a raid into neighboring Dagestan in 1999 with the aim of establishing an Islamic theocratic enclave. That raid was one of the Kremlin's justifications for trying to forcefully regain control of Chechnya and touched off the current conflict.
Sorry for the OT
Hugh, would it be worth scanning some of the books on Islam you've mentioned, and putting them online? (I assume the copyright has expired on many of them.) I'm sure there are many people here and on LGF who'd volunteer to help. Perhaps each volunteer could be responsible for scanning a book or two, and someone else could build a site and load the books into a database, so they could be searched easily.
A question.
Robert had these folks figured out because 'things Islamic' are bedtime reading. So, he knows what Islamic sources the Jihadists in Chechnya are saying. Who else does that kind of stuff?
Muslims?
Well, then, why shouldn't Muslims out there who read this stuff be explaining to us 'ignorant Westerners' what is really going on, just as Robert does?
You see, Robert cares about us and is trying to explain, warn, help. But what about others out there who surely know what he does and say nothing, or say things that are misleading or false...
And, as I write this, the BBC has yet to use the word 'Islam' (or anything remotely related) in stories on the school massacre.
I just read this from an AP story:
However, a prominent Arab journalist wrote that Muslims must acknowledge the painful fact that Muslims are the main perpetrators of terrorism.
"Our terrorist sons are an end product of our corrupted culture," Abdulrahman al-Rashed, general manager of Al-Arabiya television, wrote in his daily column published in the pan-Arab Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper. It ran under the headline, "The Painful Truth: All the World Terrorists are Muslims!"
Oh my gosh!
Of course they want a Muslim state with Sharia laws. The aim of the umma is to create a new Caliphate.
The price for thwarting their ambitions is death. They will stoop to nothing to achieve their goals. The Russian school incident is an example of their low behavior, which, could get much lower.
Beware of these people. They have predatory ambitions for your land and for you as their dhimmis.
Cherchnya was given autonomy[briefly] but instead
of concentrating on getting the country stable - there were always lots of factions fighting each other in true Islamic style - promptly invaded Dagestan [which remained in the Russian Federation]. Yes folks, their declared aim was to
'set up another Islamic state in Dagestan 'and
spread an Islamic Caliphate over the Caucasus.
Have never been there myself but should imagine conditions are similar to Afghanistan : Warlords
fighting each other for control and loot in the Name of Mighty Allah. All the violence relates back to this accursed Qur'an and its abominable Pedophile Messager - Murderous Mo. I personally doubt if the West or Russians will be able to establish democracies in either Iraq or Cherchnya.
Maybe just leave and let them slaughter each other...Here, am not talking Dhimmitude but commonsense.
OK, so the man in the street might now understand that they want their own Islamic state, and the tragic massacre of the innocents of Beslan will possibly help convince the median voter that the war in Chechnya is not a war for nationalistic self-determination as much as it is to establish yet another destined-to-fail Taliban clone Islamic society.
Now the challenge is for us to make the effort to take the collective consciousness to the next level, helping the median voter understand why they want their own Islamic state. Of course the jihadis themselves say it, but the non-Muslim world is not yet prepared to believe it, that they intend that this and every other Islamic state aspiration, is to provide a spingboard for the conduct of their war against the world in order to achieve their vision of Islamic global conquest.
Here's a sobering statistic:
In 1939, on the eve of WWII, the combined populations of Germany, Japan and Italy was around 190 million.
In 2004, on the eve of WWIII(?), the combined populations of Islamic countries is 1.2 BILLION.
If the clash of 190 million fascists against the world could produce the global carnage of WWII, what will be the result of the clash with more than a BILLION more than those faced in 1939?
Granted, the economies of the belligerents of WWII were much larger than the combined economic might of their opponents, and the same holds true today if we compare the combined industrial capacities of all the Islamic countries to the non-Muslim world.
But neither the Nazis, nor Japan, nor Italy possessed nuclear weapons, which is not true of the Islamic world. Note that Pakistan itself refers to their nuclear capability as the "Islamic" bomb, not the "Pakistani" or some other social organizational element bomb. They have named it themselves after their "religion". It is inconceivable that in the non-Muslim world it would be possible to refer to the nuclear capability of the US, Russia, UK, France, China, India and Israel(?) as the "Buddhist-Judeo-Christian-Confucian-Hindu" bomb. Maybe we need to just call it something out of the jihadis' own playbook. We could call it simply, the "non-Islamic" bomb, the dar al-Harb bomb.
It is time for the non-Muslim world to wake up and smell the napalm. The enemy of freedom today adheres to an ideology as virulent as Nazism or Stalinist totalitarianism, and that ideology is not a "separatist", nor a "nationalistic", nor a "terroristic", nor an "extremist", nor a "radical minority", nor a "hijacked peaceful religion" ideology. It is simply Islam. It is a violent and cancerous political-social-economic ideology that parades as a "religion" as a sort of ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing.
The tree of Islam has displayed its bloody fruits for nearly 14 centuries. It has a root in its Koran, hadiths, sina, and shariah. Our ancestors have hacked away at its leaves, branches and trunk for 1350 years. Perhaps it is now the destiny of the present generation to uproot it for all time, hack it into firewood, and burn it brightly upon the heap of other failed ideologies whose smoldering embers we continue to fan to this day.
Hey, the BBC finally used the term 'Islamic' in an 'analysis' of the 'identity' of the 'hostage takers' (why not 'mass murderers').
But take a look:
BBC False Identity Analysis
But, oh, its so confusing, don't you know. Russians say this. Chechens say that. This guy says another thing...who to believe? Give me an 'analysis' please, BBC...And there are so many 'warlords' out there, oh my...
That's the new buzz: from 'separatists' to 'militants' to 'hostage takers' to 'terrorists' to 'warlords', that is, 'Chechen warlords'.
The BBC makes me feel a little like Piglet in Winnie the Pooh.
'Oh, I'm just a little animal...I'm so scared...I can't say it...'
JIHAD, baby...
Apparently, if the Pakistani regime falls and Washington's favorite generalissmo is assasinated or otherwise divorced from power, then some weird, wonderful mysterious object called "the 15th Marine expeditionary Division" is poised to go in and take out pak's nukes.
All of them.
Even if that requires pak's trrops (which is a certainty).
Now that's exactly what this world needs. While the US does the dirty work in Pak, let Israel do the job in Iran.
God bless the free world.
Also replying to Hulegu Khan's post:
In WWII we didn't need to decimate entire axis populations, only to psychologically 'break' them into becoming the success stories they are today.
What'll it take to 'break' moslem populations into gaining freedom from islam? Now that's an interesting question....
JTF
Because they are cowards and can not belive that they were wrong!
Well they need to be forgiven and just told they were fooled like the world was now is time to open their eyes?
Fool me once shame on you Fool me twice shame on Me!
Lets help them not let be on us all!
Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Open their Eyes to the Islamic Terrorist give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
Oh my gosh!
Posted by: Degenerate Artist at September 4, 2004 03:02 PM
Can you post that link Please!!
Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Open their Eyes to the ISLAMIC TERRORIST give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
If they wanted an independent state they have just done everything they possibly could to stop that from ever happening. Nice work you idiots!
Catherine-
Here is the link but I see Robert has the story up on the next article.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040904/D84SUUB00.html
Whatever the original grievances, they have metamorphosed, as they inevitably would have, into something else: the desire for an Islamic state, with the Shari'a. Arabs are now in Chechnya as they are in Kosovo and Bosnia. If you were a tepid Muslim, or a Muslim somewhat de-islamized by 70 years of Soviet rule, and have had that Muslim spark rekindled, it will always be rekindled to cause the desire not for an independent nation, for the nation-state is trivial to the umma and unimportant to the Believer, but an independent nation only as a vehicle to promote here, and then here, and then here. Ingushetia, Ossetia, the rest of the Caucasus for a start. It hardly matters if the population in question is entirley Muslim, or mostly Muslim, or partly Muslim, or not Muslim at all. There are not too many Muslims sitting at the table when the Georgian tamada presides over the vodka-bouts in Tbilisi, but Georgia would certainly become the intended victim upon a Muslim success in Chechnya. And it would hearten the True Believers in Uzbekistan, and then in the rest of the stans, with Kazakhstan being the last redoubt of real secularism. In other words, there is no end to this. That being the case, the Russians must crush, and even those who once had sympathy for the Chechens must support them in that crushing, the indepdendence movement. Because Islam depends on triumphalism, because any victory anywhere, far from leading to a subsiding of demands, will inevitably lead to an increase, every Muslim demand or cause -- against India or Israel, or the Philippines or in the Sudan or northern Nigeria or anywhere, must be opposed. The non-Muslim world must come to its sense about this. Curiopusly, the Christians of black Africa, the Russians, even the Chinese, are far more likely to realize this than those who now inhabit the traditional enemy and victim of Islam, Europe, once-Christian and now, in its new post-Christian existence, all too willing, Euro-Arab Dialogue and so on, to practice appeasement -- and as the Dutch EU bureaucrat shows, to preach it to the Russians, and everyone else, as well.
Che stronzi, quelle connerie, what absolute dopes -- please fill out with words in the European language of your choice.
Perhaps when muslims perpetrate evil such as this in order to "get" something what should be IMMEDIATLY dont is to make sure that the maggots will NEVER have what they wanted....destroy it, fence it off, shove them off you shores in aleaky boat...whatever...just be SURE they do not get anything close to what they want.
As for muslims wanting their own countries...I will not hand the car keys to my 5 year old...he cant handle it...judging from other muslim countries no one should be handing muslims the keys to their own country...they cant handle it.
RE the query above that I just saw: scanning books or articles on-line might be good, but a number of them are already on line. But they have to be known. At various websites, especially www.dhimmitude.org, and www.secularislam.org, and www.faithfreedom.org, one can find articles that are relevant.
As for the books, at least two of K. S. Lal's books on Muslim rule in India are on-line in toto. But one has to get people -- students of Muslim India, Indian-Americans and Indians elsewhere, to read the material. Many of them are too indifferent, or in the melting pot of the United States find that they have so much in common with immigrants from Pakistan, that they do not wish to look too closely either into Muslim ideology, or into the horrors inflicted on India, Hindus, and Indian civilization, by the Muslim rules (save, of course, for the syncretistic Akbar, who is revered by non-Muslims, and hated by Muslims, for the very fact of his syncretism).
Fagnan, Bousquet, Abel, Vajda, Dufourcq are all in French. They should be scanned in, for French readers. Who will do it?
Vakolopoulos, Dadrian, and others who show up Shaw and Lewis on their kidglove treatment of the Ottomans (see how Lewis describes, for example, the devshirme), are easily found. The Bulgarian, Rumanian, and other writers are harder to find. The Index Islamicus is on C.D.-Rom. What one has to do is appeal, over the heads of the army of apologists who control most courses on the MIddle East and Islam in Western universities, to the undergraduates and graduatees to locate, and distribute, and read the real stuff -- fantastic, but actually the situation is akin to that in Soviet Russia, when people would pass around typed-out manuscripts of those legendary figures in exile -- Khodasevich, Bunin, Aldanov, Nabokov, even perhaps Anatoliy Shteiger. So, whispers in the corridor -- here is Margoliouth, here is what Snouck Hurgronje had to say about the Muslims of Aceh, here is the classic piece of Jeffrey on the Quest for the Historical Muhammad. Oh yes, and here are the books of Ibn Warraq -- don't let Khalidi, Dabashi, George Saliba find out. You know how hysterical they get, in and out of class.
Quite a situation, no?
Yes it's quite a surreal situation, desperately trying not to offend people who are conducting a global campaign of bombing, beheading and baby-murdering against us. I remember seeing a representative of the Muslim Coucil of Britain (I can't remember his name) being interviewed by Andrew Neil on a BBC program once. Neil asked if it was permissible to criticise Islam, since in this country we have a long tradition of poking fun at our religious figures etc. The MCB spokesman literally choked on the question, and couldn't answer.
Hugh, yes.
When will the europeans wake up.
Some sooner than others.
The f.ng audacity of the eu re russia and this latest is beyond beyond.
As an institution, with americas long time allies germany and france clinging to control,
negative inertia, torpor.
An increasing islamic influence and population.
In negative population growth europe, it would not take long for super high arab islamic birth rates to make a huge impact. The average palestinian woman has 7 1/2 children.
The BBCs use of the words arab, moslem and islam seem very calculated.
In the Darfur disaster, it was far along into their reporting of the situation when they finally attributed blame to arab moslems attacking black moslems, and that the gov. was arab moslem.
BBC in the control of ......
In an effort to be more pro active over the whole issue I decided to search for a site to complain about the EU's Foreign Ministry's inaction / silly comments over the incident. It is worth pointing out that Romano Prodi the actual president of the EU (but in the grand scheme of things a powerless individual) made some sincere and appropriate comments on the incident unlike Mr Bot.
Anyway to complain click here (Dutch Governments own site):-
http://www.minbuza.nl/default.asp?CMS_ITEM=20F6EFDB12E4405E881FE86C0CAFB57CX1X61299X8
and here (EU Foreign Min. Site):-
http://www.eu2004.nl/default.asp?CMS_ITEM=5796DC18CDC64AE59E3705B957048F8DX1X46255X21
To send a complaint about Bernard Bot's frankly disgusting comments over the Russian incident (he basically blamed the Russians) - remeber to keep it polite tho, as filling the site with vitriol will be couter-productive.
If your from the EU make a point of saying that his comments do not represent your views which is worring given he is supposed to be "our" (ie the EU) foreign minister.
Please forward as appropriate.
American Muslims are holding their annual convention and according to every story I've read so far, the big topics are: how to fight for their rights (since they've been stripped after 9/11 of course), repairing their damaged image, and most importantly, getting out the vote on election day (for Kerry, since the Bush administration has been ever so mean to them).
Funny, no mention of, hmmmm, hundreds of children killed in Russia, or joining the fight against terrorism.
It's once again one giant pity party. Boo hoo.
From the KC Star, and more of the same can be found at Google's list of articles:
http://tinyurl.com/6h5ua
30,000 Muslims convene
Illinois gathering will emphasize value of voting
The Associated Press
ROSEMONT, Ill. — American Muslims opened their largest annual gathering Friday, emphasizing the importance of voting as the Muslim community struggles for political recognition.
More than 30,000 people were expected to attend the three-day meeting organized by the Islamic Society of North America, a national association representing Muslim groups and mosques.
Voter registration booths will be set up, and American Muslims who have been elected to public office will discuss their campaigns. Two sessions have been dedicated to getting out the vote.
“We are this nation,” said Kareem Irfan, chairman of the Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago.
The conference is the third for the Islamic Society since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and organizers planned to address many of the problems that have plagued the community since then.
Presentations will be made on defending Islam against prejudice, creating ties with leaders of other faiths, and preserving Muslims' civil rights during the domestic war on terrorism.
Sheik Muhammad Nur Abdullah, president of the Islamic Society of North America, opened the session with a prayer asking God to “heal the wound from 9/11,” and urged U.S. Muslims to build relations with other faiths as a model of tolerance for fellow Muslims overseas.
“As Muslim Americans, we can set that example,” he said.
However, the presidential race will be a top issue.
As recently as the 2000 election, some Muslim immigrants debated whether their religion allowed them to participate in democratic elections. American Muslim leaders say those questions are no longer being raised, and they are working for high voter turnout in their communities.
Muslims have sizable populations in swing states such as Ohio, Michigan and Florida, and hope that will help them gain visibility in the presidential race.
I am tempted to suggest that Russia should give Chechnya it's independence. Then build a wall on all common borders and pull the plug on any public services - such as power - provided by the CIS. Treat any Chechnyan caught inside Russia without a valid visa as an illegal alien and any armed incursion as an act of war.
jay
Posted by: Degenerate Artist at September 4, 2004 10:23 PM
Thank You
Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Open their Eyes to the Islamic Torrorist and give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the Victory Amen
Che strozzare quelle Connesso. That strangle those related? Is that what you mean Hugh?
Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Open their Eyes to the Islamic Terrorist and give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS
It might do well to help remind people of what happened in Europe in the 1600s? and the Islamic Monsters that were defeated?
Saudi Arabia has that type of crap legal system and cult acceptance. They should move there with the rest of the racist wahhabi whackjobs.
In the past I've often wondered why the Russians don't just get out of Chechnya. I haven't been all that aware of the issue there other than the fact that the Chechens wanted independence and Russian didn't want them to. But I see the danger in Russia giving in. Especially now.
Not only would we end up with yet another Islamic cesspit that manufactures hatred, misery and death and exports refugees, but it'd be a notch on the bedpost for Islam. That Triumphalism thing that seems to be pumping them up, gathering support, snowballing out of control. Since 9/11 it seems it's woken up a sleeping dragon. Osama's their superhero and they all want to be like him, and murder infidels and force Islam on the world. It's obvious this recent flavour of Islam is very appealing to many. I hear of mosques getting more radical "spiritual" leaders and the attendance skyrocketing. Obviously the true Islam is very popular. We talk about "moderate" voices, but I fear they're being drowned out because more seem to prefer the Dark Side, the true Islam. Moderate Muslims are like lapsed Catholics. Not real Muslims. What we see Islam doing today is the real Islam. The one dripping with blood and gore, just like their "prophet" designed it.
Good luck to Putin and Russia in trying to keep this animal in its cage, but I fear for them. (Oh, and apologies to animals, for insulting you by describing Islamics as animals).