Here's another stop-the-presses story, as I have chronicled Al-Azhar's radicalism for years, but it is good to see it being acknowledged in the Islamic world -- especially the parts about the oppression of dhimmis, which are almost never admitted by Muslim spokesmen. From MEMRI:
Progressive writer and Cairo University lecturer on the sociology of religion Sayyed Al-Qimni wrote, in an article in the Egyptian weekly Roz Al-Youssef, that the curricula of Al-Azhar University encourage extremism and terror. The following are excerpts from the article:(1)'A Few of the Sheikhs at Al-Azhar are Trying to Drag it [Back] to the Middle Ages'
"Let us take a look together at the curricula of Islamic jurisprudence, which are taught in Al-Azhar's intermediate stages, not in order to call for the banning of [books on these curricula], but in order to understand that their removal from the curricula is the first step required for reform. They should, of course, remain in an Islamic library as a source for whoever wants to know what the Muslims thought in the golden era of Islamic jurisprudence and in order for us to understand the way of thinking of [certain] sheikhs [today] and what they want from our youth...
"Al-Azhar continues to be a place of acquisition of education and defense of moderate Islam and of the [generally] accepted ideas. Nevertheless, a few of the sheikhs at Al-Azhar are trying to drag it [back] to the Middle Ages and to draw [their ideas] from some radical schools of thought. If Al-Azhar gets rid of them and of their ideas, it will remove those black stains from its garments.
"If we examine some of the extremist curricula, we will find that the principle of fighting any non-Muslim and killing him is not an offensive innovation by [founder of Wahhabism] Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abd Al-Wahhab and by [Ayman] Al-Zawahiri, [Osama bin Laden's deputy and the head of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad organization]. This [is] because a book of the Hanafi [school of thought], 'Al-Ikhtiyar fi Ta'lil Al-Mukhtar' [by Abdallah Ibn Mahmoud Al-Mawsily] teaches the next generation that 'the war against the infidels is an obligation of all intelligent, healthy, free, and able men... And when the Muslims besiege their enemies in a town or a fortress, they must call upon them to convert to Islam. If they convert, [the Muslims] must cease fighting them, and if they do not convert, they must call upon them to pay the jizya [poll tax]. If they refuse to pay the jizya, the Muslims must call upon Allah's help in the war against them, to erect catapults, to destroy their fields and their trees, to burn them, and to pelt them [with catapult stones], even if [the enemies] use Muslims as a human shield...'"
'What Kind of Thinking are We Teaching Our Next Generation, that It has the Right to Attack Other Countries in Order to Convert Them to Islam?'
"The book then instructs [Muslims] to act with compassion in this war: 'The Muslims must not breach a contract assuring protection [of the subjugated], must not take more than their share of the booty, must not mutilate bodies, kill madmen, women, children, cripples, one whose right hand has been amputated, or an elderly man, unless one of them is a king or a person able to fight, to incite [to war], to give advice about war or to instigate [fighting] by means of his possessions.' The stipulation that women, elderly, and cripples would be pardoned if they did not incite to war implies that everyone, in effect, should be killed, since no citizen living in a country attacked by foreigners does not incite to battle...
"Let us continue to read from some of the curricula of the extremism ['Al-Ikhtiyar fi Ta'lil Al-Mukhtar']: 'When the imam conquers a country by force, if he so desires - he will divide it among those taking the spoils, [and] if he so desires - he will execute the prisoners, subjugate them, or leave them under the patronage of the Muslims. [Moreover,] if he wishes to return [to the country] [and has] livestock, which he cannot take with him, he will slaughter and burn it.'
"What kind of way of thinking are we teaching our next generation, that it has the right to attack other countries in order to convert them to Islam or to [make them] pay jizya, and that if they don't - we will annihilate them down to the very last one? [That it has the right] to pillage countries and return with the loot, and [that] if it cannot transport the booty - [that it can] burn it? Can anybody imagine a member of another religion, paying jizya, in a state of subjection, to a people he does not recognize, merely because it is able to attack, to kill and to slaughter?...(2)"
'One Must Degrade Dhimmis [Non-Muslims Living in Muslims Countries]'
"And what about after the conquest, the emigration and the taking up of residence in the conquered land alongside its non-Muslim residents, who pay the jizya? [On this matter] there are guidelines [in 'Al-Rawdh Al-Murabba Sharh Zad Al-Mustaqna' by Mansur Ibn Yunes Al-Buhuti] [through which] one can see what the position of an Al-Azhar graduate [will be] towards his [non-Muslim] brother in the [Arab] homeland: '... The [hair] on their foreheads must be cut... They are permitted to ride [mounts] other than horses, such as donkeys, without a saddle... [One] must not rise in their honor or precede them in greetings... [One] must not offer them condolences, visit them in sickness or participate in their celebrations. They are forbidden to establish new churches or to rebuild those that were destroyed... They are forbidden to build a structure higher than those belonging to Muslims... They must be forbidden to raise their voice in mourning the dead.' If a dhimmi(3) invites a Muslim to a wedding celebration, he must not go, 'because one must degrade dhimmis...'"
Read it all.
Slowly, slowly. Not the whole truth, because if it were the whole truth, the Qur'an and hadith and sira would be directly adduced as evidence. And then where would Believers be -- or for that matter, Infidels? But asymptotically approaching the truth. Every little bit helps.
Offtopic to Moe's Foe:
Do you wish to apologize now or later?
(Did you include the girls' parents as "freaking jokes"? I'll bet they had/have hopes as well.)
This from AP:
Jordan's King Says Italians Alive in Iraq
Mon Sep 27, 8:37 AM ET Add Middle East - AP to My Yahoo!
ROME - Two Italian aid workers kidnapped in Iraq (news - web sites) and once reported to have been killed are still alive, Jordan's King Abdullah II said in an interview published Monday ahead of his visit to Italy to discuss the crisis.
Abdullah told the daily Corriere della Sera that Jordan was working with Italy to secure the release of Simona Pari and Simona Torretta, who were kidnapped in Baghdad on Sept. 7.
(more)
Who is this wash guy was just on linda's show F.N.C. something about freemulsum.org?
All I saw was they don't want to go back into the sh-t holes from where they came? He was talking that Al-arabia was the answer and a moraderate channel did we not here this about Al jezzie?
The only good thing I saw was the People did not buy his LIES!LIES! as they say Wise to all your LIES!!
Actions speak louder than words!!
Just like when the Gremans had a 4 yr start on the Bomb and LOL at Poor little old USA said we would never get it not only did we make it in three years but we made 2 and used them!!! who is laughing now!
As the mussi's think now that we are to stupid to understand?
Well I like what someone said yesterday?
I don't have to get bit by a rattle snake to know it can kill me!
I look at things in simple terms they want to kill us if we do not pray to their ROCK god?
That tells me to take them out before they take me out simple!
If you pour water on a seed it will grow! simple
there are those who will give more info but the truth is you need water?
This is why the People of America [USA] Loved Reagan and Love Bush they talk to the People and we Understand them!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE EYS OF THE WORLD TO THEIR THREAT AND GIVE THEM BALLS TO STAND AND FIGHT AMEN
Can anybody imagine a member of another religion, paying jizya, in a state of subjection, to a people he does not recognize, merely because it is able to attack, to kill and to slaughter?...(2)"
tHE POPE ASK FOR A POR AX YESTERDAY AND WAS TOLD TO GO JUMP BY THE USA
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE EYES OF THE WORLD TO THEIR THREAT AND GIVE THEM BALLS TO FIGHT THEM AMEN
PS
LIKE THEY DID IN THE EARLY 1800s
From the shores of Tripoli
There are times that you feel like just cutting to the chase and being definitive as to what we are dealing with when it comes to this radical,or no; maybe I should say fundamentalist mentality that pervades the middle east islamic cultures.
It seems that almost everything you read coming out of the muslim world is a never ending trail of hate and intolerance for anyone that does not subscribe to be a muslim.
Who among us made these peoples religion to be so superior and condem all others as inferior to theirs?
test
Catherine
OT, but why do you say "spider killer." Your signiture to your posts appears to indicate that you are native-american.
Most tribes consider the spider to be off-limits to killing. They can contain the soul of a past relative that hasn't gone on to it's rest.
Plus, in general, native-americans understood that the spider does a very good job of eating other troublesome insects.
So what's up with that?
Walter in Denver
Posted by: Walter in Denvar at September 27, 2004 03:21 PM
wE HAVE TO kill THE SPIDERS SO THE IRAQI PEOPLE CAN HAVE FREEDOM BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE SPIDERS!!!
AND WALTER WE KNOW YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR AMERICANS so what is your game?
Kill snakes too!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes the World to their Threat and give them Balls to Fight Amen
PS
WND is kicking ass today??
Walter in Denver:
Awhile back there was a story on JW about some Iraqi imam claiming that "allah" had sent giant spiders to defeat the American infidel troops (in Fallujah or Najaf, I can't remeber which) that they were larger than humans, he saw them and they were even captured on video by news crews. He also claimed that the giant spiders were victorious over the coalition troops. THAT's why Catherine refers to herself as "Spider Killer".
The American Tribe reference is to the fact that, no matter our ethnic, cultural, political, religious, ideological, etc. differences we are AMERICANS and must stand united against the islamic Threat.
CGW
Okay you are hired??
But I wanted to play with him a while longer?
Still wearing Short Skirts!!
Think they are worth Fighting For cause My legs are great!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE EYES OF THE WORLD TO THEIR EVIL THREAT AMEN
Don't understand you, Catherine....
As a Jew, I thank you for your support of Israel.
Any way we can come up with a reasonable ransom for the lives of squirrels, snakes, and spiders smaller than three quarters the breadth of my palm?
Catherine... you say...
"AND WALTER WE KNOW YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR AMERICANS so what is your game?"
Look... settle down... I did not understand your reference to "spider killer" and I was asking for some explanation.
And I argree, we are the "American Tribe." But your signiture references have a native-american flavor to them, so I was just interested in what you ment by "spider killer."
"AND WALTER WE KNOW YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR AMERICANS so what is your game?"
For the first time in my life, I would be willing to do much more harm to radical Islam then I ever thought I was capable of doing.
My wife is a native-american... and it has taken a lot of time for her to come around and agree with US that there is a problem. She asked me about your "spider killer" reference and I was just asking.
My game is just this... I would have NO PROBLEM is kicking out every Muslim in this country... or putting them into camps until we can sort them out.
So please... clam down... I am on your side.
Walter in Denver
Perhaps the most important part of that article, an article written this week, and published in Egypt, is the casual appearance of a phrase about the payment of the "jizya." That appearance is the best possible evidence of everything that this website is about -- about not merely the relevance, but the absolute centrality, of the tenets of Islam as they apply to the treatment of non-Muslims. And if anyone who writes, who talks, who pontificates, who appears an "expert" on television -- from Fareed Zakaria to Juan Cole to Anthony Cordesman to Fawaz Gerges, continues to ignore, or to fail to understand, the centrality of Islam, their comments will continue to be misleading, either wilfully or ignorantly so.
The only people qualified to talk about the Middle East are those who understand fully the tenets of Islam as they relate to the world of the Infidels. For the real intelligence failure in Iraq is not about weapons, but about attitudes -- the attitudes of hostility, that will not end no matter how much aid is lavished on that ungrateful populace, toward Infidels. It is Islam that explains the impossiblility of any final settlement between Israel and those waging what must be, by the tenets of Islam, an endless Jihad against it (and only "darura" or necessity, can be invoked to justify non-participation in a war against Israel).
Here it is: look again at the story. Find that phrase about the "jizya." Show it to your friends. Start explaining the facts of Muslim life to them. Chapter and verse have just been provided.
My wife is a native-american... and it has taken a lot of time for her to come around and agree with US that there is a problem. She asked me about your "spider killer" reference and I was just asking.
My game is just this... I would have NO PROBLEM is kicking out every Muslim in this country... or putting them into camps until we can sort them out.
Posted by: Walter in Denvar at September 27, 2004 07:49 PM
I find it amazing that you cap mulsum and not America?
I have a problem with people who live in this country and don't respect it?
As for the Indains in this Country they Love this Country. And Do Fight with her!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat Amen
PS
Don't understand you, Catherine....
As a Jew, I thank you for your support of Israel.
Any way we can come up with a reasonable ransom for the lives of squirrels, snakes, and spiders smaller than three quarters the breadth of my palm?
Posted by: Afrafaste at September 27, 2004 07:20 PM
The Iraqis are afraid of Spiders? They have been told that they killed the USA Soldiers? And will Kill them?
With all due respect to Sayyed Al-Qimmi, the curricula of Al-Azhar University IS based on Islam. Removing the curricula and placing them in an "Islamic library" does nothing to invalidate them.
He speaks of reform. Islam is based on the Koran. Everything that follows is ellaboration, explanation, addition, interpretation. So what is it exactly that needs reform? It would seem that the Koran is good place to start. If reform in Islam is to set it on the straight path, all attention should be given to the Koran. Let the world examine it and know its truth. Will the truth of Islam open itself to the world, or ...?
All else is taqiyya.
Or as Al-Qimmi puts it, let's, "... place the interests of the homeland at the top of its priorities…"
Catherine says:
The Iraqis are afraid of Spiders? They have been told that they killed the USA Soldiers? And will Kill them?
I'm confused. I admit I'm slow....and I paid extra for a large print instruction manual when I got born.
Afrafaste, here is a link for the spider story-
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/irq/irq_65_3_eng.txt
The "Spider Killers"were a Native American clan whose name meant that they kill like the spider for justice and to protect sacred lands.I beleive they were Navajo.My Mohawk ancestors beleived the spider was sacred and that when dreaming that the spiders web would catch the good dreams and allow the bad dreams to slip through the web.We coulsd use the Spider Killers here today to weed out the moslem butchers among us.
Annakita, reform is not possible for the qu'oran, or islam.
Mo is islam, more than Christ is Christianity, and much more than any one person for Jews.
Everything mo did, everything mo said, and commentaries on these; that is islam.
Now mo talked nonesense and did evil, evil in the most absolute way.
What is there worthwhile to be reformed in islam.
Christ did good
mo did evil
both have a billion people trying to emulate them.
The mo people are attacking the Christ people.
There were Germans who opposed the nazis, usually at the cost of their lives, and to no avail.
There are moslems who would try to move islam forward away from its blood drenched past. These are brave people who risk their lives, and to no avail ....because you cannot take mo out of islam,
and mo did and taught evil.
After the December 7, 1941 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued Executive Order 9066. This act based on ethnicity permitted the military to bypass the constitutional safeguards of American citizens in the name of national defense. The order excluded persons of Japanese ancestry then living on the West Coast from residing and working in certain locations. This traumatic uprootment culminated in the mass evacuation and incarceration of most Japanese Americans, most of whom were U.S. citizens or legal permanent resident aliens. They were detained for up to 4 years, without due process of law or any factual basis.
One group, the kibei, are particularly disturbing. They are American born citizens who went back to Japan for education and consequently grew up in the militaristic period in Japan following 1931. Life in Japan was so different after the military took over that country in 1931 that returning kibei commonly complained of a cultural clash between themselves and their parents, who were raised in relatively peaceful times and were in the US during the militarism of the Japanese thirties. The kibei pose the combined threats of having the full rights of citizens, but young (and thus potentially unstable and unwise) yet being very likely to have strong sympathies with the Japanese Empire.
Lets do it again
only this time we will let the Moslems play the Japs!
Christian mandate = go into the world and preach the gospel of love, salvation and reconciliation in the name of Jesus Christ
Islam mandate = practice jihad and to bring the infidels under Allah’s rule and the injunctions of the Qur’an
No Islam, Know Peace
no Jesus, Know Peace
Al Qaeda for Kerry!
it should say
Know Jesus, Know Peace
Sorry Its late...
Afrafaste, here is a link for the spider story-
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/irq/irq_65_3_eng.txt
Posted by: Carolyn2 at September 27, 2004 10:31 PM
Thanks, Carolyn2....The Chemical Rubber Company used to put out gigantic books of physical constants which were good for door stops and for killing spiders that are too large, hairy, or fast-jumping to safely leave alive.
CGW (..and all others involved in the "Giant spider debate")
There were actually 'giant spiders' but hardly the size of humans!!
(To quote an Americanism) "Check out these babies!"
Going back to the "Al-Azhar" thread, I thought I'd take this oppurtunity to post Mark Gabriels testimony once again.
I never tire of it.
It truly is a testimony to the power of Christ.
Radical Imam from Al- Azhar turned Christian evangelist!
Regards everyone,
KC
KC,
So what is this then, are muslims saying they're resurected as spiders (not a great deal of difference really!!!)???