Turkish Premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan has chimed in to denounce the Beslan atrocities as un-Islamic. But he seems to be more concerned about Western analyses of terrorism than about the terrorism itself: "I do not want to see the word 'Islam' or 'Islamist' in front of the word 'terrorism.'" Very well, Erdogan. So what are you doing to stop radical Muslims from doing violence in the name of Islam? From the Turkish Daily News, with thanks to Nicolei:
The premier dismissed that the act of terror could be linked to Islam or Chechens as a whole, saying there could be no terrorism described as "Islamic."Suspicion fell upon Chechen militants for the three-day hostage-taking seige, which ended on Friday following clashes between Russian commandos and the hostage takers that left as many as 400 people dead.
"Terrorism has no religion, race or nationality. It has taken up an international dimension. If you call it 'Chechen terrorism', then this would lead a Russian to consider all Chechens as terrorists. Similarly, one can see we Turks are sometimes perceived differently in the West because some people there tend to blame all Turks for a wrong act done by one Turk," Erdogan said in an interview with private ATV television on Friday night.
"I do not want to see the word 'Islam' or 'Islamist' in front of the word 'terrorism'," Erdogan said. Instead, he complained there was not yet an international platform created against terrorism, as states were still comfortable with the mentality of "let the snake not harming me live long" and efforts to address "root causes" of terrorism, mainly poverty, were not sufficient.
tis difficult to tell if erdogan is a well informed apologist or a sycophant for left-wing ideas
Erdogan needn't worry. The SBS in Australia, the BBC World Service, and PBS are happy to comply, in moving heaven and earth to keep the word "Islam" out. This morning I heard the deplorable Robin Lustig (his voice is almost as grating as that of Judy Swallow), made clear in his allotted time, in questioning a reporter (I think it was William Wallace) in Beslan, that -- as he hammered again and again -- it was NOT a religious conflict but an "ethnic" one. Got that, BBC listeners? It was an "ethnic" conflict, not a religious one. And the same thing happened on the BBC (can't remember the speaker or speakerine this time), who interviewed someone about Darfur, and of course they feel much happier noting, again and again, that it is Muslims massacring Muslims, so -- here it is again -- it must be an "ethnic" and cannot possibly be a "religious" conflict (i.e. Jihad). But as is well known, and was noted here by Robert Spencer, within Islam, based on canonical texts, the Arabs have a special place; it is "in their language," and "to them, the best of peoples" that the Prophet's Message was sent. And islamization has always required arabization -- adoption of Arabic script, adoption often of Arabic names, the Arabic language, and the forgetting of one's non-Arabic identity. In Iran, it was only Firdousi, and his Shahnama, and a fierce intellectual effort to retain Persian, and Persian identity (it helped that Persian civilization was so self-evidently superior to that of the primitive Arabs).
The BBC MUST be investigated, and so should PBS (I would start with the fantastic idiocies, and constant apologies for Islam, of "Dick" Gordon, the smarmy host of "The Connection," who sees his role as that of Defender of the Faith -- the Faith being Islam -- for a good example, listen tonight to the re-run of his interview with Tariq Ramadan, the wonderful, smooth-talking, lover of "dialogue" and arch-pratctioner of taqiyya (he hardly needs to, since the likes of Gordon and Scott Appleby and Diane Eck the Montana cowgirl turned "Pluralism Project" promoter, are all too willing to do his work for him.
As for Erdogan's remark -- one more bit of evidence to be used by those who, if they are sane, will keep Turkey, the Turkey of a Kemalism not exactly in tatters, but getting there (and where are all those famous secularist beneficiaries of Kemalism, speaking out against the slow dismemberment of his careful system of laws to constrain Islam -- do they like what they see in Beslan, and around the world? Because that is what will help keep Turkey out, unless they demand that Erdogan stop talking that way, and begin to tell the truth).
Re above: Anna Kolutha is up to her old tricks, so please add, at the very end, for the sake of sense, "out."
I have decided to comply. I will no longer use the words "terror", "terrorsim" or "terrorist" with the adjective "Islamic". The overuse of the phrase "Islamic terrorism" by political leaders and the media has obfuscated the meaning of the word "terror" to the point that Islamic jihadi butchers have been lumped into the class of IRA, ETA, FARC and the handful of other "terrorist" organizations who are not motivated by religion.
So from now on I'm going to use the adjective "Islamic" with nouns like murderers, savages, scumbags, butchers, dirtbags, excrement, etc.
As for his "root cause" statement, I agree:
Islam causes poverty which causes despair which causes hate which causes violence against the non-Muslim world which causes the non-Muslim world to necessarily exterminate the Islamic scumbags when they are encountered on the ever widening global battlefield.
Hugh's right abouty the BBC and the Daily Mirror who prefer to use such cliched PC labels as militants and even freedom fighters(Bwaaah!Ha!Ha!), but fear not folks the Sun has finally set the trend for the words "islamic" and "terrorism" to be used together.
Channel 4 and C5 news as well as debate shows like "The Wright Stuff" also seem to have acknowledged this fact and are using this far more accurate label.
Hard potatoes Mr.Erdogan.
Your people are reaping what for so long they have sown.
The interview with the Beslan terrorist was good though. Even though the BBC only showed about 10 seconds of his excuses and denials, he did use the word 'Allah'. So despite the fact that the BBC et al won't name the root cause, the terrorist himself did, and the link between Islam and terrorism has been reinforced in peoples' minds.
Even though the BBC is appallingly biased most of the time there are some exceptions. BBC 24's Hardtalk is one - there was an interview with taqiya merchant Tarik 'not-so-fast' Ramadan where Tim Sebastian really wiped the floor with him.
Not many people will have seen it as it was on very late and on digital.
Am happy to use 'Muslim Terrorists' or 'Allah's Terrorists' to save Mr Erdogan's sensibilities...
Islamic terrorism is really overkill. I mean once you say islamic, the terrorism part is understood.
Nothing is islamic if it does not advance the cause of islam and the ummah. And nothing that helps the cause of islam and the spread ofthe ummah is honorable or decent or peaceful or good.
Ergo, nothing that is islamic is not 'terroristic', if I may say so.
Am gonna design a nice little flash ad rivalling the one against big tobacco. "connect the dots...islam kills"
I do not want to see the word 'Islam' or 'Islamist' in front of the word 'terrorism.'"
Fair enough. How about
1. Jihadi terrorism
2. Koran mandated terrorism.
3. Koranic terrorism.
4. Allah ordained terrorism.
Rikki says:
Hugh's right abouty the BBC and the Daily Mirror who prefer to use such cliched PC labels as militants and even freedom fighters(Bwaaah!Ha!Ha!),
I have a copy of todays's Mirror (Scottish edition) right here. On the front page there's a picture of Shamil Basayev with his beard, and the headline "The Face of Evil". The text starts:
This is the fanatical killer who masterminded the Beslan school siege. Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, 39, is believed to have funnelled al-Qaeda cash to mount the atrocity. The former Russian soldier dreams of establishing a fundamentalist Islamic empire across the North Caucasus.
His linkman is thought to be Saudi Abu Omar as-Seyf, who intelligence services say is Osama bin Laden's top man in Chechnya.
Inside there are four more pages of coverage, including the heart-breaking pictures we've all seen, and pictures of Basayev's earlier activities in Moscow and Rostov. More text about him says:
Basayev emerged yesterday as a fanatical terrorist hellbent on establishing a fundamentalist empire across a huge swathe of the North Caucasus. From a hideout deep in Chechnya's woods, he has veered towards hardline Islam, directing his followers to adopt lethal suicide bombing tactics...Previously it was thought Basayev had the single goal of driving the Russians from his homeland. Now it is believed he has forged an unholy union with al-Qaeda to fulfil his crazed dream and stoke Islamic rebellion across territory from the Red Sea to the Caspian.
There's lots more, including a column containing the complete text of the article by Abdel Rahman al-Rashed which Mr Spencer has posted here.
All of which I think isn't bad at all.
Islamic terrorism is really overkill. I mean once you say islamic, the terrorism part is understood.
Posted by: voletti at September 6, 2004 05:21 PM
You are right but you have to get people aloud to think it? We should by now be taking giant steps but still are taking baby steps remember the 3Ts [things take time] I just pray that time is on our side?
Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”
All the arab world has been saying to Fight so they are the only thing to do is KILL them give no quarter!!They don't!
Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong and high! If some good befalls, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ but if evil, they say, ‘This is from you (Muhammad).’ Say: ‘All things are from Allah.’ So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”
sound like we have seen this in 2001?Now they go for cover to say OH! NO! NOT US WE ARE PICEFUL!!
IN MY BOOK THAT DOG DON'T HUNT!!
Qur’an 4:88 “What is the matter with you that you are divided about the Hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (causing their disbelief). Would you guide those whom Allah has thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah has thrown aside and led astray, never shall they find the Way.”
Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allah (i.e., Jihad) you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you march, He will afflict and punish you with a painful torture, and put others in your place. But you cannot harm Him in the least.”
this is what the islamic terrorist are doing in Iraq by KIlling the Iraqi People these are MONSTER ISLAMIC TERRORIST!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her Open their Eyes to Islamic Terrorist and give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
To Jack Ryan
THe Mirror (Scottish edition) sounds like a excellent newspaper...if there are any more authoritive articles on islamic fascism from this source or others like it please tell us. It seems that the organisational standards/policies about freedom of speech and debate for its journalists is quite unrestricted. Unlike it seems is case in the BBC and many other media outlets...which seem nauseously eager to appease islamist clerics.
Remember the British Council...I think the guy who got sacked there did himself a favour in terms of boosting his psychological health.
I think I would rather die than live/work there in swarmy appeasement...I don't like giving islamist totalitarianism a leg up/support by shutting-up thank you very much!...P.s. if I send an article to the press anonymously debating the problems with a religion I would hope that I wouldn't be hunted down as a political enemy of the state by left wing goons (damned Stasi immitators)that are doing the same thing that thought policy do in totalitarian states.
I have always suspected that Basayev or someone with the same ideological goals was behind this. He is an islamic fascist and totalitarian true beleiever...and this is the reason he has been prepared in the past to commit such extremely barbaric behaviour. He is like a modern day Lenin or Hitler...just this time these thugs from the past have been reincarnated as Islamic Fascists.
Muslims have perpetrated so much terror over the past decades, stepping up those attacks over the last few years that it wouldnt matter if we called it "the birgade of kindly misunderstood bearded men"....as soon as a horrific act occurs the first thought on the minds of everyone is ISLAM...I doubt there is a PR person out there that could erase that....but if he insists that he doesnt want "islam" associated with terror...how about the "pro-prophets pervert patrol" terror...however we spell it....its muslims following the koran.
P.s. Erdogan doesn't want people to use the word islamist with the word terrorism. He is doing a bit of thought policing of his own it seems. But having thought restriction doens't do democracy's any good...never has and never will...thought policing is a tool of totalitarian states NOT democracies. So why is Erdogan doing it...hmmm...is it becuase he is an islamist himself? The question is how far down that slippery slope of islamism is he..the more he encourages islamism in turkey the slipperier the islamist slope gets for his country...he doesn't seem to appreciate the potentual results (for democracy) of the fire he is playing with...or does he?
we simply can't trust what a moslem says.
in fact it is safer to believe the OPPOSITE
of what they say.
we would like instead to see a cessation of violence in the name of allah and islam and mohammed and the koran.
Interstd,
I regularly watch HardTalk and I'd have to agree with you that Tim Sebastian regularly dishes verbal beatings out to terrorists and their appeasing government officials., I'm more of a night time person anyway.I would, however, like to correct you, BBC news 24 is actually on terrestrial TV throughout the night.
Jack Ryan,
Since the Beslan massacre, I too have noticed a change in policy within the ranks of the daily Mirror, I therefore withdraw my statement (until the fuss dies down and they turn left again).