Why? Because of humanitarian considerations? Not quite. He wants the hostage-takers to free the children because all children are born Muslim, and are only turned away from it by their unbelieving parents. And that idea, of course, is the basis on which radical Muslims attempt to undermine the integrity of all non-Muslim cultures. From Russia's Interfax, with thanks to "Feliks Dzerzhinsky":
BESLAN. Sept 1 (Interfax) - Mufti Ruslan Valgasov of North Ossetia has appealed to the gunmen who have seized a school in Beslan and taken hostage hundreds of children and adults to free at least infants, who, according to his information, are present among the hostages, and organize food supply for the captives."Children are Allah Most High's pure and innocent creatures. As Prophet Mohammed said, 'every baby is born a Muslim', or, in other words, a creature obedient to God, and therefore any Muslim who harms a child harms his younger brother," the mufti told Interfax.
Well, then, perhaps the disobeident children of the Kuffar do not deserve to die, they just deserve a good beating until they are comply and believe...but what if that will not help? I suppose one just keeps beating them until they believe or die...In any case the purpose is the same, extinction of nonbelief and nonbelievers.
"Free the infants, slay the rest of the children!!"
Awwww, geeeeee, what a swell guy this mufti is.
He said to free the INFANTS, so I guess it's ok in the eyes of this "religious leader" to go ahead & KILL all of the SCHOOLCHILDREN for the glory of the peaceful muslims & most merciful allah.
I say again - the Russians should let them know in very clear terms that for every Russian child killed AN ENTIRE VILLAGE WILL BE LIQUIDATED IN CHECHNYA.
The brave warriors of Islam have taken children
as hostages to show the power of Islam,what a sick a disturbed faith,somewhere in the Quran there must be verses that create these murderers for Allah's cause.
With about 99.96 percent of the worlds Muslims living outside of North America,I wonder if the Muslims here have it all wrong and the Islamists
are the true followers of Muhammed and Islam.
The constant rant by CAIR that Islam is a faith of Peace is really wearing thin and becoming more and more distant from the reality of the Practised version of Islam by the 1.2 Billion outside of the USA.
Killing Gods children to gain favour with Allah is truely sick and beyond any form of sanity and compassion,Muslims should repent and ask for forgiveness from the real God and practise a peaceful life and not use the Quran as a dispensation to murder for Allah's kingdom.
Russia, my heart goes out to you. Kill the terrorists, then kill every muslim in Russia until there are none left. That is the only language savages like muslims understand.
Where is Cyrus, to defend all of this as being a response to the US 'military-industrial complex' in use by sinister forces in the White House?
As I suspected, like Reza, he spews and runs.
Apparently, they are not killing them for the sake of allah. They want the russians out of their country. And there is nothing in the Quran that rewards muslims for killing children or civilians.
And to Mr. Spencer, do you really mean what you say here? Are you able to read brains? How did you come with this?"HE WANTS the hostage-takers to free the children BECAUSE all children are born Muslim, and are only turned away from it by their unbelieving parents". Are you sure this is the reason? Or maybe you want to be sure that this is the reason.
These are not simply children, but children of the Kuffar against whom Jihad has been joined.
If this were a 'national stuggle of liberation', whatever that means, let's say, a war with political ends, then the senselessness of blowing up trains, planes, apartment buildings, etc. would be obvious, and there would be constraints on violence dictated by political ends.
But this is not a political war, it is a religious war; hence, the 'enemy' is not just an 'occupier', but an enemy of God, worthless morally, utterly disposible, children, women, it does not matter...they are all without belief and a threat to the domain of Allah.
Hence, Saudi money funds this war, hence Muslim Arabs fight this war, hence the aim of the war is not simply Chechnia, but the aim of the global Jihad, the global domination of Islam.
Hence, the war fought in Chechnia is also our war, not by our choice, but by the choice of those who have declared the Jihad.
Muslims take a building full of little kids hostage...how very brave...whats next...the brave warriors going to take a nursing home hostage....is there no end to their cowardice and evil?
They need to say mulsum terrorist?
http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10698631
Sep 1 2004 7:11PM
Russia calls for UN Security Council convention
MOSCOW. Sept 1 (Interfax) - Russia has demanded that the UN Security Council immediately convene following the latest terrorist attacks in the country, Russian Permanent Representative to the UN Andrei Denisov told Russian television on Wednesday.
"This session could take place in several hours, when it is nighttime in Moscow," Denisov said.
What is the UN going to do?
http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10698546
Sep 1 2004 6:44PM
International terrorists involved in school seizure - Ramzan Kadyrov
MOSCOW. Sep 1 (Interfax) - Chechen Deputy Prime Minister Ramzan Kadyrov thinks that international terrorist groups are involved in the hostage-taking situation at the school in the North Ossetian town of Beslan.
"We are fighting terrorists, bandits, knowing that it is international terrorism, wherever they are - Ingushetia, Ossetia, Chechnya. We are fighting them and destroying them and will continue to do so," Kadyrov said in an interview with Russian Channel One. "Today, they have once again proven that they are inhuman, that they do not have any ideas or any values," Kadyrov said. "They all went to school. It is September 1, the most festive day in children's lives."
"They have ruined it for the children and for everyone. This is why we think that there is only one place for them - in hell. We have absolutely no reason to talk to them," Kadyrov said.
And the Arabs meet in Germany?
http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10698545
Sep 1 2004 6:42PM
N. Caucasus Muslims outraged by hostage-taking
MOSCOW. Sept 1 (Interfax) - The Coordinating Center of the North Caucasus Muslims has expressed outrage over the hostage-taking situation in the North Ossetian town of Beslan.
"Taking children hostage, including infants, the bandits have shown their true face with shocking cynicism. Driven into a corner, they keep putting forward impudent and reckless demands, trying to demonstrate, first of all to their bosses, that they are still strong. There is no place for those beasts on our land and in our society," the center said in a statement.
The center also expressed willingness "to provide assistance in a peaceful resolution to this incident" and the hope that "both sides will refrain from the use of weapons and bloodshed."
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
So it is OKAY to kill non-mulsums what a bunch of SH-T!
first of all to their bosses, that they are still strong WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
Bukhari:V4B52N260 “Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, ‘Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, “Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.” No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, “If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him.”’
This is what we are up against Freedom will let them change if they want and the MONSTERS can’t handle FREEDOM!!
Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.”
Tabari IX:6 “The chief sheep tender sent out spies to obtain intelligence. But they came back with their joints dislocated. When he asked what had happened, they said, ‘We saw white men on black horses. Before we could resist, we were struck as you see us now.”
YES WE AND THE RUSSIANS AND THE EUROPEANS ARE THE DESTORYERS OF THESE MONSTERS!!!
Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”
SO FOR THE B.S. THAT THEY TELL US THAT MULSUM WILL NOT FIGHT MULSUM IS BULL-SH-T!!
Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”
SO THEY SAY WE CAN NOT SPEEK OUT AGAINS THEIR MURDER’IS WAY OR THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO KILL YOU!!
Ishaq:552 “When the populace settled down, Muhammad went to the Ka’aba and compassed it seven times on his camel, touching the Black Stone with a stick. Then he went inside the Temple. There he found a dove made of wood. He broke it in his hands and threw it away.” [The first idol Muhammad broke was the international symbol of peace.]
Tabari VIII:100 “Abu Sufyan said, ‘We were merchants but the fighting between us and Muhammad has prevented us from journeying, so our wealth is depleted. [This is the purpose of terrorism.] Even after the truce with the Muslims, we fear that we still are not safe. [Muslims, continuing to plunder Meccan caravans, violated the treaty twenty times.]’
REMEMBER THIS IS THE TIME OF THE SILK TRADE AND WHY THE CHINESE BUILT THE GREAT WALL TO KEEP OUT THE MULSUM MONSTERS!!
Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you.]
IN MY BOOK IT SAYS TO KILL THEM FIRST! THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING AND WE WILL NOT TIRER WE WILL DESTORY THIS EVIL WITH THE HELP OF OUR FRIENDS!!!
Qur’an 9:45 “Only those ask for exemption (from Jihad) who believe not in Allah and whose hearts are in doubt, so that they are tossed to and fro. If they had intended to march out to fight, they would certainly have made some preparation and readied their equipment; but Allah was averse to their being sent forth; so He made them lag behind. ‘Sit you among those who sit.’ If they had marched with you, they would not have added to your (strength) but only (made for) discord, spying and sowing sedition. There would have been some in your midst who would have listened to them. But Allah knows well those [peace-loving Muslims] who do wrong and are wicked.”
THIS IS WHY THE MULSUM SAYS THERE ARE SPIDERS THAT ARE SENT TO GET THEM BECAUSE THEY WANT FREEDOM AND PEACE!!!
If we can't be in the middle east then we don't need to feed them and we can drill for oil in our own country! We will have to gt rid of every Mulsum in this great country! USA a Mulsum Free Zone!! I don't care what the French think they will be dead or mulsum!!!I don't care what the libs think they will run away like the French!! We want the Brave and have always had them and have always had the cowards too But we have Always won!! It is Kill or Be Killed and I will bet Americans will Pick KILL!!
Posted by: Catherine at June 14, 2004 12:54 PM
Still Feel this way have not changed with the wind!!!
Mutilation of victims and Muslim law
By Jeff Jacoby | June 13, 2004
"A RECENT FATWA posted on a popular Islamic website in Saudi Arabia," reports Neil McFarquhar in The New York Times, "explains when a Muslim may mutilate the corpse of an infidel."
The ruling by Sheik Omar Abdullah Hassan al-Shehabi specifies two circumstances in which the desecration of an infidel -- a non-Muslim -- is permitted. One is retaliation "when the enemy is disfiguring Muslim corpses or when it otherwise serves the Islamic nation." The other is when mutilation will "terrorize the enemy" or "gladden the heart of a Muslim warrior."
Given those conditions, it is hard to imagine a situation in which an Islamist militant couldn't justify the mutilation of a victim's body.
"That a cleric can post such an argument in an open forum," commented McFarquhar, "goes a long way toward explaining how the most radical interpretations of religious texts flourish in Saudi Arabia."
But they don't flourish only in Saudi Arabia.
The popular "Ask the Scholar" feature of Islam Online (www.islamonline.net) was recently asked "how Islam views the issue of mutilating dead bodies of enemies." In a reply, Sheik Faysal Mawlawi, deputy chairman of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, began by declaring that mutilation is "not allowable" under Islam. But then came the loophole:
"It is possible to mutilate the dead only in case of retaliation. . . . If he inflicts any physical damage on anyone, he should be retaliated against in the same manner. In case of war, Muslims are allowed to take vengeance for their mutilated dead mujahids (fighters) in the same way it was done to them." This, the European sheik explained, is the teaching of the Koran (16:126), which counsels patience but authorizes revenge.
Does this mean that normative Islamic law authorizes Muslims to mangle the bodies of non-Muslims they have killed? I am not a scholar of Islam and would not presume to say. But two facts seem indisputable: (1) A Muslim intent on such mutilation can find clerical authority to justify it. And (2) a small but implacable minority of Muslims are intent on such mutilation. Indeed, it has become a signature of the evil we are fighting, as the news of the last few months has shown.
Iran Massing Troops on Iraq Border
NewsMax Wires
Tuesday, June 15, 2004
Iran reportedly is readying troops to move into Iraq if U.S. troops pull out, leaving a security vacuum.
The Saudi daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, monitored in Beirut, reports Iran has massed four battalions at the border.
Al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted "reliable Iraqi sources" as saying, "Iran moved part of its regular military forces towards the Iraqi border in the southern sector at a time its military intelligence agents were operating inside Iraqi territory.
Match this timing with the OPEC and Arab meetings??
Long post because my words aint so pretty?
Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
Squirrel Hunter
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat this Evil Amen
JTF, I do not know if you are a muslim or not. I do not agree with a single word of what you said.
This was is for Chechnia only. Soudi money is not funding it anymore. And Arab and Islamic media is just ignoring it.
"SONS OF KUFFAR?". First russian are not kuffar. Second, children cannotbe said to be kuffar because "kafir" means somebody who hides the truth.
Catherine, very long copy-paste post.
Hence, the war fought in Chechnia is also our war, not by our choice, but by the choice of those who have declared the Jihad.
Posted by: JTF at September 1, 2004 01:07 PM
You get the Gold star for the Day!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
One further point I'd like to make - you can bet that osama bin-shathead, al-zawaqueeri & all others of their ilk will be watching this situation very closely. They will be looking to see if this breaks the Russians & they will be gauging the fallout from the rest of the world. They will make a balance sheet listing pros & cons of this operation & if they think they have gained more than they lost then this will become a standard tactic in the modus operandi of the worldwide jihad. Chechnya is a proving ground for this tactic as the madrid bombings were for the ability to influence elections & the fillipino truckdriver was for the fracturing of the coalition. If the Russians do not hit back harder by at least an order of magnitude then we will be seeing much more of this to come.
Destroy them. Overwhelmingly. With utter & brutal finality.
Omar,
I believe you are sincere in your remarks and horrified by these events; and that you wish to separate in your own mind the hideous evil of these actions from your conception of Islam.
But, therein lies the problem: psychologically certain obvious truths cannot be processed, confronted, admitted, dealt with.
Saudi money does finance this war. Arab Muslims do fignt in Chechnia, and Chechens fight elsewhere in the global Jihad. And Islamic web sites, even those that avoid inflammatory talk of violent Jihad, openly declared global Islam as their aim; they simply disagree about methodology. And Arab media are full of sermons, propaganda, declarations, of Islamic Jihad against 'Zionists', 'Nonbelief', 'American hegemony' 'uncleanliness' etc. etc....And the message is clear: Muslims rise up and declare Jihad against the nonbelievers. The action is Chechnia is one part of that Jihad, as radical web sits make perfectly plain.
Finally, the status of the 'nonbeliever', 'the one who hides the truth', (or however one wants to parse the text) as an 'object' of perpetual conflict and open warfare, is well founded in the Koran. The aim, the obligation, of every Muslim, should be to eliminate nonbelief: that is clear from the text. And clearly, the muhajedin of Chechnia take this action with that end in mind.
As horrified as you may be, it is time to confront these facts. This is not you, but this is indeed 'Islam'.
Hey USAgirl! The jihadists are threatening the VA hospitals in the US so I guess old people are targets for these great and powerful muslims too!
I like this great example of how Islam is the religion of peace. They can't kill children becuase they are born muslim (whatever that means...I have yet to see a baby do prayer 5 times a day, pay a tax, walk in circles around a pagan stone idol, and behead people). It's not because the direct act of killing children is wrong. It's only because children can be exploited by muslims...they need the children so they can abuse them to make them muslims so those children will go out and kill and cause suffering.
Catherine, very long copy-paste post.
Posted by: Omar at September 1, 2004 01:16 PM
Here is the point that you passed over?
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
SO ONCE AGAIN YOUR PREACHERS ARE LIERS!!!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces & russia's too and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] Amen
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 01:46 PM
Not the fisrt time to see fabrications like this.
As Prophet Mohammed said, 'every baby is born a Muslim', or, in other words, a creature obedient to God, and therefore any Muslim who harms a child harms his younger brother," the mufti told Interfax.
What's stopping a muslim from killing his younger brother if he sees his brother as an unbeliever?
This war is about more than Chechnya, Omar. The al-Qaeda in-country will tell you that.
Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
YES GP THEY ARE TO KILL EACH OTHER!!
Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”
THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE UP AGIANST IN IRAQ BECAUSE THE IRAQI PEOPLE WANT FREEDOM!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight whith her give them Srength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] Amen
God Bless the country who has HERO'S and Pitty the country who needs them!!
You're one to speak about fabrications, Omar. This war is only about Chechnya?
http://windsofchange.net/archives/004893.php#more
This is about Chechnya AND Islamizing the entire Caucusus region (not that it would stop there). This is news to you??? If so, proceed to the Barney website.
Ok I'm back on my "this is the New Crusade" stance again. To hell with Muslims. I'm over it.
Islam has succeeded in making me a militant enemy. Congratulations. One less apologist in the world for your sorry, tired, evil, backwards cult.
I tried to be tolerant -- really.
Welcome back, Foehammer. Now get out to the range & battle-zero your weapons & then : locate, close with & destroy the enemy through fire & maneuver.
Notice I've added a little slogan to my logo now...
http://www.foehammer.net/
Islamic Terror -- that's what everyone needs to start saying. Eventually the mainstream media and our government will be forced to remember to add that important adjective.
*goes to make sure his guns are clean*
Sorry to say, but this is a suicide mission. The Russians know it and the jihadis know it. Frankly, I'm astounded that they haven't tried the same in the USA to date, but I am dreadfully sure that it is coming. So we all need to just brace for the worst, pick up the pieces, and then continue doing what USMC General James Mattis says he and his men are doing:
Well stated, Hulegu.
If Mecca is vaporized and 2/3s of the Middle East becomes uninhabitable for next 20 years will that kill Islam? How do we disarm this ideology?
f.g.
I too tried my best to be tolerant of Muslims who were silent as hostages were decapitated, buses blown up, planes used as bombs, etc...
Thought to myself that they all do not think this way, soon the majority of Muslims will come out and denounce this supposed small group that has hijacked the great religion of peace.
My hope has been unfounded as no such denunciation has come. Now the news today that they have taken a bunch of school children hostage and have threten to kill 50 of them at a time.
This is it for me...WHERE ARE YOU MODERATE MUSLIMS?? Do you even exist?? Surely you cannot justify the slaying of innocent children just because they live in a country that isnt under Sharia law?? This is cowardice anyway you slice it.
You cant hack it that you cant get what you want, and are to WEAK to fight for it by conventional means, so you attack the weakest possible target.....children. How far you have sunk....
Pretty soon everyday joes like me will be totally fed up with this BULLSHIT and will come for you...that includes those who were silent, giving tacit approval to these actions. Your time is coming, be warned.
Omar and Reza raisin - You should now understand that there is a movement to create a Muslim-run world, a return to the Caliphate. Chechnya, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, and all other encroachments of Muslims against non-Muslims are tiny parts of the whole. Each victory brings part of the earth to Sharia and Islam…and the non-Muslims suffer.
The reasons that infants and children are targeted in this instance is that Russia is thwarting Islam and in populations that thwart Islam, according to the Koran, all are considered to be "fighting against the Muslims…" men, women, and children are to fall under the knife because they resist. How charming, what are lovely, thoughtful, and merciful group of people is this "cult of death!"
AvrageJoe Salutes Misspelled because it means
Avarice
Rage
Joe....(American idiom ,means (common man)
These things.....these emotions .....Avarice and Rage, are what is beginning to be felt by masses of peoples in the civilized world toward a barbaric 7th century ideology.
Was ANY other result possible in reaction to the revealed TRUTH of ISLAM???
All NORMAL humans cannot help but feel very strong emotions when confronted by the insane acts of a power mad slavery addicted blood cult
Slavery addicted=
(Islamic females are the primary slaves)
History has proven that men will FIGHT and fight hard to protect their right to keep slaves.
Omar, do get a grip and study the holy texts of Islam. If they fail to convince you of Islam's manifest goal of worldwide domination under a global caliphate, listen to the sermons emanating from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Yemen, Iran, or from the innocuous mosques right here in America.
No people on earth are as duplicitous, deceitful and mendacious as Arabs, especially Arab muslims.
Hyperbole, prevarication, grandiloquence, and dissemblance are standard components of daily discourse. Excessive rhetoric is part of the Arab culture; their vernacular is infused with pretension. They lavish this nonsense on each other, as well as on unsuspecting foreigners.
They never admit failure, they never accept responsiblity or blame, and they are unmotivated, lazy, and fatalistic.
Maybe their bombastic elocution is mentally and physically exhausting.
Think we should do as Israel does - hit these Islamic Terrorists HARD AND FAST! Show them we are not going to lie down and die PC deaths and send every Terrorist we catch to their Demon Allah-PRONTO. No pussy footing around and putting them in comfortable jails so they can wail about halal menus and whether they're given enough time to read bloody Qur'an.It WILL come to this anyway as the West realises this is WAR and ACTS accordingly. TAKE NO PRISONERS EXCEPT A FEW FOR INTERROGATION.
Omar seems not to believe the quote from Bukhari's recension of the hadith, which is widely regarded as the most trustworthy of such collections of "strong" or "authentic" hadith. Does he not know the hadith? He can easily consult them at www.usc.edu, along with several translations of the Qur'an. If he is misinformed about the real teachings of Islam, that is too bad, but he cannot defend Islam on the basis of his own ignorance.
And of course Robert Spencer's interpretation is the only possible one to be given to a mufti who notes that "every baby is born a Muslim" and that we are simply diverted from the true faith to the ingratitude of kaffirdom, or kuffardom, by our terrible parents.
As for characterizing the behavior of Muslims in Chechnya and Ingushetia as being simply part of a separatist or nationalist movement, that is as much nonsense as it would be to characterize the Pakistani terrorism aimed at winning Kashmir as a "nationalist" movement. If Kashmir were to be won, which means if even more HIndus and Sikhs were to be driven out, and Islam to be triumphant there, does anyone in his right mind think that Muslim demands within India would then subside, or swell, and become even more strident, backed by the triumphalism that is central to Islam? Similarly, does anyone think if Israel surrenders still more of the tiny sliver of territory, 0.2% of the total territory possessed by the members of the Arab League, that this would sate, or whet, Arab appetites in the relentless Jihad against Israel, carefully presented, utterly misleadingly, by some of the PLO (Arafat, Hanan Ashrawi, Saeb Erakat) for Western audiences not as a Jihad against an Infidel sovereignty, but as a "nationalist" struggle.
In Chechnya, what had elements of a nationalist struggle has now metamorphosed into something quite different.Saudis and other Arabs have been killed in Chechnya; Saudi money is all over the place, buying arms. Like Bosnia, now Chechnya is a favored place to be, if fighting in the Jihad is what one most desires. That is why, even if one a few years ago might have supported the Chechens (as, say, Elena Bonner, Sakharov's widow, did at one time), one can no longer do so, because it has become something quite different. And if the Muslims were to win there, the tactics they have chosen to use would be vindicated and used elsewhere. That is why even if one does not approve of the tactics of the Russian army, one must take the side of Russia.
This is no different, really, from what the West had to do during World War II. Despite the monstrousness of Stalin, there was no choice -- one had to support, and to the hilt, Soviet Russia in the war against the Nazis. It was right to do so, and American supplies to Russia certainly played their part, as did Lend-Lease to Great Britain before America entered the war. No one stopped the war to deplore Stalin, just as no one stopped to argue that because there was segregation in southern schools, or other moral failings within our own society, we lacked the moral right to conduct a war of survival against the Nazis. The same is now true. And those who keep pointing at the relatively trivial faults of the West are missing the point about what the subjugation of non-Muslims to the forces of Islam has always meant, over 1350 years of history, and from Spain to Indonesia. The historical record is there.
Look up Antoine Fattal, Joseph Schacht, K. S. Lal, Sur Jadunath Sarkar, Arthur Tritton, H. R. Idris, Georges Vajda, Armand Abel, Roger Arnaldez, C.-E. Dufourcq, H. Z. Hirshberg, Majid Khadduri, Mary Boyce, Moshe Gil, Tudor Parfitt, Laurence Loeb, Bassam Tibi, Bat Ye'or, and hundreds of others. Study them. Forget about the Rashid Khalidis or their godfathers, the intellectual thugs who have seized control, complete control, from archeology to Islamic art, to the teaching of Arabic, to the study of "Islamic civilization" and "Islamic science," in order to beat America and Israel over the head, and to never, never, never, allow the hapless innocent and terrified students of ever becoming acquainted either with real scholarship, or with the main tenets of Islam. They are engaged in a vast practice of desinformatsiya, disinformation, an army of apologists, skilled in taqiyya and kitman, in invective, in distractions, and in presenting the trivial as a way of avoiding the essential.
And one hopes that Feliks Edmundovich, up at the top of the posting, will keep monitoring the news from Russia. Russia used to produce very good scholars of Islam. It still may. If so, please keep us all informed.
Muslims believe in predestination...so unmotivation, laziness and fatalism comes from that I think...plus they are slaves to their hateful, vengeful, sadistic god so their society will never advance under this kind of thinking...sure they may spread their religion in some areas through murder of defenseless people but they will never advance out of the century in which their religion was made up by Muhammed.
It's not like this wasn't expected. Remember the video footage of Al Queda raiding a school, and shooting the children??? Muslims are setting the stage for their own demise. People tend to take it personal when you start killing their children. I can't wait to see how Russia deals with this.
Everyone:
Susan B (who STILL cannot post using the new registration system) has asked me to post an important link for you all to look at:
Susan B's recommended reading
Like I keep saying, this is once in a millenium stuff we are witnessing and it is just now beginning to ramp up. All the jihadis need to do is push just a few more buttons and then the rest of us can grab a beer and watch it all unfold on CNN.
Posted by: Hulegu Khan at September 1, 2004 03:23 PM
There will be plenty for us to do here on the homefront? Get your guns ready!
Bush call Putin and said what ever you need!
Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
PS
Is it Squirrel season yet?
mohammedallah, demiurge, anti-Christ,
rises from the abysmal depths of depravity,
from the black hole of hell, and fills
jihadis with twisted pleasure as they kill
the innocent children of the Free.
Hatred molds the muslim mind
to the point of leaving
the fold of mankind.
May all our prayers
for the safety of the children
be heard and answered.
SusanB we miss you hurry back!!
Muslims take a building full of little kids hostage...how very brave...whats next...the brave warriors going to take a nursing home hostage....is there no end to their cowardice and evil?
Posted by: USAgirl at September 1, 2004 01:11
PM
Tabari VIII:96 “A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.” [top] [toc] [quotes main]
YES THESE MONSTERS THINK IT IS OKAY TO KILL THE OLD?
Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
Gpd Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory Amen
There is so much BBC Islamic propaganda, but take a look at this:
As of this post in the main story on the school there is not even ONE mention of Islam, Islamic Jihad, Muslim fighters...NOTHING....
BBC PRO-ISLAM APOLOGETICS AND WHITEWASH!
BBC Story On Hostages
Take a look.
Catherine: Their self-righteous disgust and disdain leads them to believe that they have the right to humiliate, abuse, and kill us. That's it in a nutshell.
I was happy to hear Rush Limbaugh tell his listeners today that when the media says "rebels", they are talking about Islamic fundamentalist Islamo-facist terroriists! He's got a lot of listeners and the facts can't be said enough.
Omar is saying..that this is just all about liberating chechyna. The problem is that after General Lebed arranged effective independence for checnya years ago and the russian military left chechyna completely the result was several of the warlords started invading neighbouring russian territory...(i am pretty sure it was ossetia). The ossetian governor made it very plain to everyone that the chechnyans wanted to enslave his people. So the whole problem really with Chechnya is that when the chechynans islamists are left alone they see that as a sign of weakness and use it to invade other peoples countries. Yes Omar...Russia did effectively give chechyna it's independence...the problem is that this didn't work very well for russia...it led to russia being militarily attacked. Now if the chechynan warlords and their followers had just left Russia alone Chechynans would be independent now.
how much can the west take of this?
is there no leader with guts to tell the truth and act accordingly to defend us?
what kind of leaders do we elect?
do we wait till we are hit PERSONALLY
by the jihad before acting? (then it is too late).
why are the moslems being allowed to defeat us step by step?
why doesn't the media announcers say that it is moslems and islam that are the perpetrators?
what more do the followers of islam need to do to prove that they are evil and need to be separated from the rest of humanity?
the evil islamic accomplices in the west need to be held accountable as well.
BBC story does not mention Islamists. Part of the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" agenda of the leftist press?
Have we heard what happened to the French journalists kidnapped in Iraq? The journalists were supposedly safe from the Islamist threat because France coddles Muslims (apart from the scarf ban) & did not support the war against Terror in Iraq? Wake up call to France? Or are they & the BBC hitting the snooze button, again?
Its been almost 3 years since September 11, 2001. WAKE UP!!!
Hey OMAR ,below is a link to a Canadian Islamic
website that states that all people are born Muslims,Dr.Mohumad Elmasry is a proponent of Shariah law coming to Canada and is suspected of being funded by Saudis to finance seminars on the Wahabbism style of Islam.
Also another Canadian site called Quranspeaks.com claimed that the 30,000 Muslims that died in the Iran Earthquake were part of Allah's plan to humble us into submission by
showing his power.
Those children are martyrs for Allah,just like the Muslims that were slaughtered in the 9/11/01
attack which by the way destroyed the make-shift
Mosque set up in the WTC for the Muslim workers to pray on their breaks.
Your the typical Muslim that's stuck in the denial stage and is also paranoid over any criticism of Islam,you also don't see anything
wrong with a old man having sex with a 9 year old child.
NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE
http://www.canadianislamiccongress.org/about_islam.php#11
on one of the other articles about this criminal act a gentleman is worried that this may happen here. after some of the school shootings in this country, many of the school districts in the country went on lockdown. i was an employee for a large high school district in suburban chicago {orland park and bridgeview}.i will tell you that the locking mechanisms for these doors are electric. not even hulk hogan can pull the door open once they are energized. however due to the large muslim presence in these communities, bridgeview has a mosque, orland park just allowed one to be built, i had to hightail my family out of there. i could not be sure that the grade school that my child attended was as secure.
also someone inquired about the chechens attacking a nursing home next. basayeva did take over a hospital once. what a man.
Thanks to Rottweiller for the article.
I correct myself..it was the Russian republic of Dagestan (not Ossetia) that the chechen warloards Basayev and al-Khattab invaded in 1996 that lead to the second Chechnyan war and forced Russia back into fighting the Chechens. Also note that Basayev was the Chechnyan pri-minister at the time...so one would have to assume that the Chechnyan state had alot to do with invading Russian territory (i.e. Dagestan).
"Actual figures as to the numbers of trainees vary, but by the summer of 1999 there were enough for Basayev and al-Khattab to mount an invasion of neighboring Russian republic of Dagestan, leading to the beginning of the Second Chechen War."
Everyone please read the article Rottweiller posted here..it is very informative. Here is the link again
http://windsofchange.net/archives/004893.php#more
Who needs Hulk Hogan when one has demolition explosives and rocket propelled grenades? These are guerrilla military operations, not common criminals. I challenge anyone to name one school district in the entire country that is capable of thwarting a suicide military commando raid like the one being conducted right now in Russia. It's time for the American people to wake up and smell the napalm.
In the reported words of one survivor of the Holocaust, when asked what lesson he had taken from his experience of the 1940s, "If someone tells you that he intends to kill you, believe him."
'Balance of power' was what kept the cold war from turning hot. To fight global jehad, 'balance of terror' is what is required. Like someone said, for every child murdered, an entire chechen village will be (emptied) and burnt. Maybe, just maybe, the bare minimum of rationality needed for the balance of terror concept to work is still lurking somewhere inside jehadi skulls.... Else, we'll be forced to wipe out signnificant portions of host (read moslem) populations in order to break the jehadi spine.....
The US, once again is the world's foremost hope and will continue to remain so for at least the next couple of generations after which I guess China will emerge to share the burden.
excellent points made above hulegu khan.
I find the statement that all children are born Muslims to be revolting and highly insulting. My two beautiful children were never such thing, as Muslims. It's the same as telling me my kids were born lying, hate-filled, intolerant, murderous psychopaths, and no innocent child is that. How pretentious and arrogant of Muslims to make such a claim as all children are born Muslims. It's actually quite pathetic and laughable the extent of their arrogance and ignorance. It's amazing what a good old-fashioned brainwashing will do to a person.
If all children are born Muslim, then they are only turned away and set onto the right path by intelligent, loving, caring parents. The ones with the ignorant parents end up as Muslims. The ones with the ignorant parents who would willingly sacrifice their precious children and encourage them to be body parts and splotches on the pavement, all for some fantasy dreamt up by some psychopath 1400 years ago.
This mufti thinks he's being noble and compassionate - I suppose he is, for a Muslim. If he was truly compassionate, he'd condemn the entire thing and demand everyone be freed. But of course, he's a Muslim - poor victim of ignorant parents.
Check out the statement from France:
France called on the kidnappers to release the hostages and "expressed at this dramatic moment its solidarity with the Russian people," she [French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Cecile Pozzo di Borgo] said at a news conference.
Dramatic????????
All children are born Muslims......?
OK, so have the tent dewllers now decided with all their fine mathematics (the greaks were there a little earlier), that the Human race is only 1500 years old?
OK so if we accept the words as the truth, if all children are all born muslims, before Mohamed crawled out of his "non muslim" mother what were they born as?
I do like a good story but this is a script that even those masters of the pen and history in Hollywood would scratch their heads over...
Sorry guys, it is a little early
GREEKS
Thiss keebord kannut spel
Is the tide turning?
I also used to be one of the non-Muslims who used to think that Islam is just another 'good' religion. After 9/11 I started to look into Islam and what I found opened by eyes. Others religions are 'good' religions but Islam is an evil cult pure and simple. Living in the UK we have been constantly bombarded by the media led by the BBC that Islam is a religion of peace. Days after 9/11 even the right papers such as The Sun and the Daily Mail published articles blaming 9/11 on terrorist who were using Islam for their own ends. But since 9/11 and after visiting Islamic sites I have come to understand that there is no such thing as peace under Islam, it is either war or submission.
Over the last few months with each and every new atrocity by Muslims I have seen the attitudes of many people in the UK change. If before they were prepared to believe the best about Muslims, now they are not scared to point out how Islam is not a RoP. Last night I was listening to Talk Sport radio,( http://www.talksport.net/) one of most popular talk radio stations in the UK. After the killings of the innocent Nepalis and the hostage situation in Russia, the presenter Mike Mendoza expressed surprise at the number of anti-Islam comments. As the show progressed he said that he had received over 1500 emails and text messages with were anti-islam. So much so that he said that he could not read many out but the less outspoken ones still stated that Islam is an evil cult and needs to be destroyed. These were not fascist or racists that were sending emails or texting the show, they were ordinary people who are finally waking up to the truth!. The callers to the show criticised Islam as well as the so-called 'moderate' Muslims who are nowhere to be seen when Muslims commit acts of terrorism. There were a few people like our friend Reza who came on and started to sprout the same old BS that Islam is misunderstood, that its the fastest growing religion in the world..blah blah. These statements may have worked a year ago but no now. Evereywhere in the UK people are waking up and the Muslims should start to realise that they time is fast running out for them to either start to reform Islam and live as normal members of the human race or else they will get what they have been complaining about for the last few years, a WAR ON ISLAM
Bixster
Yeah, we know what you mean, bixster. We've all been there. Pre-9/11, Islam was a religion with people that dressed funny and didn't eat pork. We all knew Muslims and it was no big deal.
Post 9/11 we wanted to find out what could make Muslims want to commit mass murder like that, and be proud of it. Happy even, with some dancing in the streets, passing out lollies, smiling and laughing. If a Catholic group did the same thing, I doubt you'd get too many Catholics acting in the same mentally deranged and atrocious manner.
Anyway, off we went, and researched. And were horrified at what we found out. And continued to be horrified at the further bloodthirsty attacks - the Bali, the Madrid, the hotels in Indonesia, and Africa, etc., etc., and the pride this seemed to evoke in many Muslims. It seemed 9/11 woke up and emboldened some sleeping Muslims. Gave them courage, inspiration. Empowered them and made them even more beligerent and proud. I think post 9/11 we see the true Islam. The so-called "moderates" are like lapsed Catholics. The true Muslims are the ones doing the bidding of their mentor.
But we're not supposed to voice that, are we? Some want to ban such talk. Can't say anything bad about Islam even as bad things are demonstrated time and time again. You can rant about Christianity and Judaism all you want, make movies and comedies about them, and that's okay. But don't do that with Islam! Might open too many Muslims' eyes and you can't have that - it'll reduce the powerbase of the mullahs and imams. Keep us all in the dark so we won't fight back or squeal too much when they cut our throats.
JTF, I do not know if you are a muslim or not. I do not agree with a single word of what you said.
This was is for Chechnia only. Soudi money is not funding it anymore. And Arab and Islamic media is just ignoring it.
Posted by Omar at some point (who cares when?)
Omar,
I haven't had the mispleasure of confrontation with you yet, been on my hols you see? So you're another muslim who comes to tell all us anti-jihads that we've got it all wrong about islam, that it's really a totally "misunderstood" "religion" and really (if we were to look deeply enough below the surface) we'd see a religion of peace.
Well all I can say to that is:
Stuff your apologies,fake disgust,justifications and your ideology of "peace" up your ignorant (and possibly quite pimply)one way pit.
Who gives a minute quantity of turd whether this is about Chechnya or even about something as aparently imperitive as muslim schoolgirls in French schools (yes french, not Iraqi, Iranian, Pakistani or even Turkish schools but fucking french, which BTW isn't a muslim country) wearing proper muslim attire(sound OTT the truth is even...errrr.....OTT-er), the fact of the matter is that CHILDREN are being held hostage. The fact nthat you can have any kind of guilt relieving justification for this prooves what I've known all along, none of you are any good. Like Foehammer I've also tried to be tolerant but you guys do yourselves no favours in the popularity stakes, and I'd say islams last bridges are burning ( who knows those fantasy-dwelling lefties might soon see you all for virus-within-humanity that you all are).
It may be a little late for you to see this so I'm going to post it on the newer threads once I see your god-forsaken name appear.
Rush Limbaugh has been calling it as it is on islam for some months now. Not having the stomach to visit sites that KeithJoy would endorse, I don't know what the Left is saying about Limbaugh's speaking out on islamofascists. But as you say, DA, he has quite a large listening base (quite a few liberals (proper spelling) also listen), and one can hope the message is working its way into the Psyche of the American people (and some Canadians).
btw, does anyone listen to Air America (Al Frankenstein, et al)? I am curious to know what their take is on islam these days.
I have to admit, I also once considered islam to be one of the Abrahamic faiths. It was in beginning to research it more seriously, due to 911, that I learned the truth (that the Left doesn't want us to hear).
Omar, if you really want to help your co-reliionists, visit these forums and straighten out the radical, uninformed CHILDREN .. teenagers and young students, who post their glurge there:
http://forums.gawaher.com/index.php?act=idx
http://jihadforum.3.forumer.com/
http://firdaus.org/forums/
Their collective hate minces no words. THIS is how you raise and teach precious babys who have the misfortune to be born to Muslim families? How pathetic.