From Reuters, with thanks to Nicolei, a Saudi Response to the the U.S. State Department's criticism
Prominent Saudis dismissed U.S. accusations of severe violations of religious freedom in the kingdom and said on Thursday that the criticisms were politically motivated.Government officials were not immediately available over the Muslim weekend to respond to Washington's decision to put Saudi Arabia on a blacklist of countries of "particular concern" in an annual report on Wednesday tracking religious freedom worldwide.
But the move was met with skepticism by many in the kingdom, whose close alliance with the United States has come under increasing strain in the last three years and become an issue in the U.S. presidential campaign. "I can't say Saudi Arabia is the freest country. But it is the cradle of Islam. Are they proposing to have churches or synagogues or Buddhist temples here?" said Abdulaziz al-Fayez, a member of Saudi Arabia's consultative Shura Council.
"All Saudis are Muslims and this is a Muslim state."
Well, that settles that. Oh wait... there's more:
Saudi Arabia's minority Shi'ite Muslims have long complained of second-class treatment in the Sunni-dominated country. Human rights groups also say many of the 6 million expatriate workers are prevented from practicing their religion.
UPDATE: In the spirit of the above sentiment, I would like to wish each and every reader a happy Constitution Day.
Wait, yes, I propose to indeed have churches, synagogues, and Buddhist temples in Saudi Arabia. Why not! All Saudis are NOT Muslims, but those that are not are hidden and persecuted, a fate that will befall us all if we trust and believe THEM.
Look not upon their smiling faces and believe that they are tolerant and wish good things for the West. The smiles and handshakes are offered until they see the moment of advantage. Remember the goal: The West is ripe for takeover.
1. To bear witness that there is none worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is the Messenger of Allah.
2. To observe Prayer (Salat).
3. To Pay Zakat (Alms giving)
4. To perform the Pilgrimage to the House of Allah (Hajj).
5. To Observe fasting during Ramadhan." (Bukhari)
Danger:
Following the pillars above will lead to severe brainwashing, through repetition.
You will not question why; you will just do as your betters ask.
If you are one of the chosen, your betters will ask you to sacrifice yourself for your betters.
Your sacrifice will entail the killing of others, those who do not practice the pillars.
Caution:
The Koran is a fraud. Allah does not exist. Muhammad may have been a savage worrier, but he was not a prophet.
At best, you are able to describe the Koran as science fiction.
The meteor in Mecca is not holy; it is only a meteor.
A dog is trained to listen to his master's instructions, and not ask why, the Koran will also brainwash you, to follow your betters, & not ask why.
You will need the assistance of a psychoanalyst to remove the all brainwashing, your betters imposed on your mind.
The Sa'udis are right to say the US Dept. of State's report is motivated by politics. Politics is the art of human association, and American politics is guided by religious liberty, while that of SA is guided by Wahabbism.
The Saudi's (and most muslims) do not get it. In a free society, freedom of conscience is paramount. When the state is a religious dictatorship it prevents freedom of conscience. This is the core of the argument why so many people think that ideas of Islam are absolutely incommensurable with the ideas of freedom.
Happy Constitution Day to you too. Mr. Spencer.
For those Americans out there who would care to support or explain our State Department's criticism of Saudi Arabia to its Ambassador, send your correspondence to:
Ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud
Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia
601 New Hampshire Avenue NW
Washington, D.C. 20037
As always, be respectful and stick to the facts.
PS. While you're at it, you may want to encourage them to submit a new draft Arab Charter on Human Rights that is consistent with international HR standards, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Saudi Arabia is not signatory to the ICCPR). The current draft that they have signed, but not ratified, is not up to international standards. The draft ACHR does not prohibit, amongst other things, genocide, advocacy of national, religious or racial hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence, and restrictions on opinion, thought, conscience and religion.
For more on the ACHR, Amnesty International has provided the text of the Charter as well as an analysis at:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE010022004
It's a long read (over 40 printed pages) but it's well worth the time. At the moment Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and Palestine have signed (not ratified) the charter out of 22 member states of the Arab League (not that it really matters).
BTW, I wonder if the proposed sanctions will do anything about the flow of Saudi money to Islamic organizations in the United States? It would seem reasonable to ban Saudi promotion of Islam in the United States if they will not allow Christianity, Judaism, etc. to be promoted by Americans in their own country. I don't see any reason they should be allowed to operate on a double standard - it would also serve to cut off their assistance to extremist organizations (CAIR, etc.) operating in the US.
Maybe that's something that should be brought to the attention of the State Department and Congress, as well.
Saudi Arabia will change when the Western say no to its petroleum, only there. Greetings
"Are they proposing to have churches or synagogues or Buddhist temples here?"
Hey, how about hindu temples and Sikh Gurudwaras also :) ? After all, there are mosques in the Hindu/Sikh majority areas of the world.
Well, you can't blame the Saudis for lying. At least they were right up front about it: "Of course we're bigots who don't allow other religions on our soil. Did we ever pretend otherwise?"
They're right, it's just campaign politics on the Bush people's part. They're just throwing a bone to the Christian Right on election year. I'm sure Bush and his Saudi friends had a long, pleasant conversation about the report before it ever came out, with Bush pledging that it would in no way effect U.S. policy towards the KSA, and the Saudis likewise agreeing that it would in no way affect either their policy towards other religions in their country or the flow of oil to America.
Has anyone noticed the strange silence about what James Baker actually obtained -- not from the Infidel creditor countries asked to relieve Iraq's external debt, but from Iraq's fellow Arab states. Nothing further was said; it was all dropped. One wonders if he, so close to the Saudis himself (not surprising given this Texas fixer's history, and his record of kowtowing to the Saudis), did obtain some promises. But if he didn't, perhaps we can help matters along. Everyone should support, in any possible, law suits like that brought by Joel Motley of South Carolina on behalf of the families of 9/11/2001 victims -- a lawsuit that could separate Saudi Arabia, if successful, from $100 billion or so of its -- ill-gotten? accidentally-gotten? gains. The less money Saudi Arabia has, the less it has to spend on mosques all over the world, the less propaganda through the World Muslim League, the fewer Saudi students driving at 110 m.p.h. in their Ferraris as they enjoy the life of students on American campuses (and what fun to take advantage of all those light-headed Infidel girls!), the less money Prince Bandar has to stuff into his pocket and hand it out like confetti to all those proving so "helpful" to the cause in Washington and elsewhere (Fred Dutton, and the rest of you, come out and take a bow! This year's Esposito Cup will be presented by Raymond Close to..... God, the excitement is excruciating, and the race is unusually tight this year).
There was always Jihad. There will always be Jihad. What changed was the money -- they could actually pay for those mosques, those madrasas, those bribed diplomats and journalists, those arms, those tame oil companies. Take the money away. Seize those real estate holdings. In World War II enemy assets were promptly seized -- right now the Saudis and others are liquidating. Don't let them -- better, at the very next terrorist attack, for members of Congress to pass legislation to seize any seizable assets of the Saudis, the "Emiratians," and all others deemed to be aiding the enemy, defined as all those who, directly or indirectly, support the Jihad (and a rider should permit univrsity presidents to fire faculty members, whether tenured or untenured, who aid, directly or indirectly, the Jihad -- Nazi supporters lost their jobs in universities during World War II, and this is precisely the same kind of situation -- indeed, while the Nazi-minded professors had no effect on students by that time, the Jihad-apologists now holding posts that others should rightfully have, are still in a postition to indoctrinate and brainwash innocent students). The first few professors fired will certainly get the attention of the rest, and if the AAUS (American Association of University Professors) doesn't like it, too bad. They have no legal authority.
SFOD: the 5 pillars are fine, much like other religions. It's the 6th one (Jihad) that worries me.
The sooner the bani al-Sa'ud implodes, the better. The US has pre-positioned all the military assets necessary to secure the Saudi oil production in the event of fitnah in the kingdom.
So while the faithful converge on Mecca and Medina and suicide bomb each other into oblivion over which tribe will be the next custodians of the two holy mosques, the oil fields can be held in trust by the US. It could probably even obtain a UN mandate for the mission if necessary. With China depending on imports of 25% of its energy needs and Russia depending on economic stability in the West, who besides the dhimmi French would shed a tear over such a scenario?
There was always Jihad. There will always be Jihad.
Thank you, Hugh. There WILL always be jihad until reality and finality outweigh money, appeasment and "it won't happen HERE."
Franze says:
"Saudi Arabia will change when the Western say no to its petroleum, only there."
I totally agree with this statement.
Politics and religiousity may abound, but this waste is the bane of the USA.
Oil.
My first car was a '81 Ford Escort. Not a good car, but it got 36 mpg back then.
My latest car is an '00 Subaru Forester. It gets 26 mpg.
Come on folks! Where is the problem?
It doesn't take right or left wings folks to understand that we, the USA, are a pathetically wasteful society.
This is the truth.
What is the problem in inventing and sustaining economically viable engines?
Why do we consistently support, and repute! a society based upon natural resources, sun, wind, thermal?
It is not the mass of this country which subscribes to the ludicrous idea, but one of the money makers.
These "intelligentsia" can continue in their endeavor and make a profit in the meantime.
Why can't they convert?
$$$ Too expensive!
The Saudis won't allow Churches to be built
on their soil,well guess what,since Islamic Cleric's spew ad-naseaum that Jesus was one of Gods messengers,this means I could apply for a permit to build a Shrine to honor Allah for sending his Prophet Jesus.
If they deny the shrine then they deny the Quran,the saudis will also dent Allah's prophet
called Jesus.
Lets see how these wise men of great knowledge
figure out how to stop a tribute to Allah with
a temple dedicated to Jesus.
Even Solomon would have trouble with this one,Muslims will see it as a tribute to Allah,and Christian will get their worship building on Saudi soil.
NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE
Sorry Hugh, it ain't gonna happen as long as one of Saudi Arabia's adopted sons are running the country. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Only three people have criticized the Saudis this year: Senator Bob Graham, John Kerry, and Mike Moore.
Jihad and world wide terror aaaaall start in Saudi, with petro dollars.
Ever wondered why we took out Saddam while Osama is a free man? Who exactly did Saddam threaten? Why, the Kuwaitis and the Saudis of course. Remember Gulf War One?
Saddam couldn't even hit Israel, much less America. But he was a BIG threat to Saudi. And now that he's gone, the Saudis have kicked our military out of their sandbox.
I want to ask my right-wing friends: do you ever feel like you're being used?
KJ~ Every time the democrats raise our taxes, I feel used, Yes. But I'd Rather not go there. BTW, when is Kerry going to sign that Form 180?
I usually agree with your posts KJ, but I especially agree with this one. You're right on the money.
I usually agree with your posts KJ, but I especially agree with this one. You're right on the money.
I usually agree with your posts KJ, but I especially agree with this one. You're right on the money.
I usually agree with your posts KJ, but I especially agree with this one. You're right on the money.
I usually agree with your posts KJ, but I especially agree with this one. You're right on the money.
I usually agree with your posts KJ, but I especially agree with this one. You're right on the money.
Voltaire~ *lol* the system must have been acting up for your post to show 5 times, but it reminded me of all those NY democrats who are also registered to vote in Florida, nearly 40,000 of them (out of 46,000, hate to say but some Republicans were wrong enough to do it also).
Oh btw I should have qualified, the Middle-class tax cut Clinton promised, which never happened...