In Islam Unveiled I discuss why Islamic reformers will always face an uphill battle: whenever they attempt to depart from Qur'anic literalism, they become vulnerable to charges from radicals of infidelity to Islam. This poses what is probably an insurmountable problem for those who would reform Islam. Why, then, have I called for such reform myself? Principally in order to raise awareness of the Islamic texts and teachings that give rise to fanaticism and violence; the very existence of these elements of Islam, and thus of any need for reform at all, is still denied by virtually every American Muslim spokesman. And also because, if there are Muslims working for a secularized Islam shorn of literalism, they deserve support and encouragement.
But Saad Eddin Ibrahim, with whom I have taken some issue here in the past, and the other reformers at this Cairo conference got no encouragement from Sheikh Tantawi at Al-Azhar, who is the closest thing the Islamic world has to a Pope. Tantawi made it clear that their reform efforts were out of Islamic bounds. Ibrahim, like Irshad Manji, wants to "reopen the gates of ijtihad" -- that is, reopen discussion of Islamic teachings, thus allowing for the possibility of reform. But Tantawi is having none of it. From MEMRI, with thanks to Rebecca:
A seminar on "Islam and Reform" was held on October 5-6 at the Pyramisa Hotel in Cairo, with the participation of more than twenty intellectuals and researchers from the Arab and Muslim world, Europe, and America. At the seminar's conclusion, the participants published a final statement in which they called for the implementation of both religious and political reforms. The seminar and its final statement raised the ire of high-ranking clerics in the Egyptian religious establishment....In the opening speech Dr. Sa'ad Al-Din Ibrahim, Chairman of the Ibn Khaldun Center For Development Studies in Cairo, said that the plans for reform "aspire to emphasize that the gates of ijtihad [2] are wide open and that an [intellectual] Jihad must be waged to keep them open until Judgment Day, as the meaning of this [keeping the gates of ijtihad open] is the protection of freedom of thought and expression, not only in religious matters but in all matters…
Dr. Ibrahim further stated, "We are all [waging intellectual] Jihad to prevent the marginalization of the Muslim mujtahidun, whether marginalization by their own governments, by official religious institutions, which have become church-like institutions, or by extremists, radicals, and zealots who have hijacked Islam and turned it into a means of intimidation and terror all over the world." [3]...
The final statement contained ten key recommendations, published (in English) on the Internet site http://www.mengos.net/events/04newsevents/egypt/october/ibnkhaldun-English.htm:
"1- Reframing a new intellectual Islamic context, characterized by clarity and unity of perception, that seeks to take into account all the changes and transformations that took place in the social life of the various countries of the Muslim world during the last 11 centuries.
"2- Implementing a radical revision of the Islamic heritage that involves all Islamic scholarship relating to Islamic Jurisprudence and the Sunna, the Traditions of the Prophet – all of which were founded during the first three centuries of Islam. The participants called for reliance on the Koranic text as the sole authentic source to be utilized for reviewing the entire Islamic heritage.
"3-Confronting all institutions – whether composed of clerics or lay persons – that claim a monopoly over religion and the proper interpretation of its holy text. Instead, a new spirit should seek to establish the right of ijtihad for all, under the banner of an Islamic reformation relevant to in the current century.
"4- Confronting and refuting the visions and statements of radical religious movements so as to retard their penetration into the Arab society specifically among youngsters many of whom are living in a state of depression under the stress of economic hardship.
"5- Intensifying dialogue with moderate and enlightened elements in the Western world, particularly in the United States. In this the language of dialogue and partnership is the instrument for dealing with the other "non-Muslims" on the basis of the principles of co-operation, respect of national independence, and peaceful co-existence among civilizations and nations. In that context, Muslim communities abroad could function as channels of contact."...
The seminar and its recommendations raised the ire of high-ranking members of the religious establishment in Egypt. The Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, harshly attacked the seminar and its participants, and claimed that their call "to confront all institutions that claim a monopoly over religion" was directed against Al-Azhar.
In an interview with the Kuwaiti daily Al-Rai Al-Aam, Tantawi claimed that voices in the seminar "called explicitly for the disavowal of the Prophet's sunna ; Al-Azhar and [Egyptian] society reject this." According to Tantawi, these research centers whose representatives participated in the seminar "have a destructive influence on Egyptian society and they must be stopped and brought to trial…This is an explicit call to discard a major source of Islamic religious law – the Prophet's sunna. This is a danger in which some of [our] external enemies are interested [in promoting]."
He further said, "The participation of Western [research] centers in a discussion of Islam and its legal sources is a mark of shame and a disaster which society and its leaders need to prevent… It is an obligation to forcefully intercede so as to prevent [these] affronts. This is a group of [religious] deviants, one of whom has already been indicted on charges of treason; thus it is forbidden to deal with them and it is an obligation to consider them insignificant in society." [4]
Sheikh Ibrahim Al-Fayoumi, Secretary-General of "The Academy for Islamic Research," the supreme body of Al-Azhar, said: "I called for the holding of an emergency session to respond to this impudence… What causes foreign [research] centers to express their opinion on Islam? Would they agree to us intervening in matters of their religion and faith…? [This is] a religious war led by Zionist organizations to harm Islam and its law… We will demand to put an end to the holding of these conferences which attack faith." [5]
Dr. Abd Al-Azim Al-Mut'ani, Al-Azhar University lecturer, said: "Conferences such as these aspire only to cater to the American overlord, and they have no intention of [pursuing] reforms in the Arab and Muslim worlds. These are agencies operated by the U.S. to justify its intervention in and pressures on Islamic governments."
News from Egypt and the Arab world:
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661
http://www.egyptdailynews.com/
http://english.aljazeera.net/
http://www.arabnews.com/
http://www.sauditimes.com/
http://www.spa.gov.sa/
http://www.saudiinstitute.org/
http://www.memri.org/
http://www.sahafa.com/
http://www.pmw.org.il/
http://www.palestiniannews.net/
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/
http://news.nabou.com/world/north_africa_news.html
http://www.northafricanews.com/
http://www.algeriadaily.com/
http://www.amazigh-voice.com/news.htm
http://www.arabicnews.com/
http://www.menafn.com/
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/
http://www.accessmiddleeast.org/
http://www.gulf-news.com/
http://www.albawaba.com/
http://www.alsabaah.com/English.html
http://www.iraq.net/
http://dailystar.com.lb/
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/
http://www.kuwaittimes.net/
http://www.metimes.com/
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/
http://www.egypttoday.com/
http://www.jordantimes.com/
http://www.syriadaily.com/
http://www.sana.org/english/mainEn.htm
http://yementimes.com/
http://www.hrinfo.net/en/
http://www.cewla.org/en/
http://www.amanjordan.org/english/
http://www.equalityiniraq.com/english.htm
http://www.kurdishmedia.com/
http://www.kurdistanobserver.com/
http://www.zindamagazine.com/
"Dr. Abd Al-Azim Al-Mut'ani, Al-Azhar University lecturer, said: "Conferences such as these aspire only to cater to the American overlord, and they have no intention of [pursuing] REFORMS in the Arab and Muslim worlds."
And what islamic REFORMS does Al-Mut'ani and Tantawi propose?...absolutley nothing. Gee..islamic problem solving never looked so superior!
The height of hypocrisy!!! Certainly Muslims care to comment on all aspects of Western life including religion. How dare they, indeed, demand that non-Muslims remain silent on a movement that will diminish the lives of all non-Muslims!
Certainly the aim of Tantawi is to make Islam triumphant over all the earth. Ibrahim may want to reform Islam but I'll that he also has the same goal.
Test
Islam ---
"It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah."
http://www.modellbauliste.de/Merci/merci.html
The fact that muslim big-shots condemn those brave enough to admit, or declare islams essential and vast need for reform really does show how deeply rooted their hateful racist, bigoted (albeit islamic) views are, and how little a large number of muslims actually want to change it.
Maybe in time, if democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq are succesful, the islamic world may realise that it is their religions tenuous grip which causes most of their problems, and as a result begin to loosen it. But until then, until we see crowds of muslims on the streets of every muslim city from Istanbul to Jakharta protesting, and crying out for masss reform, all we can possibly do to protect ourself against this scourge is FIGHT IT, RELENTLESSLY AND WITHOUT COMPROMISE!!!
According to Tantawi, these research centers whose representatives participated in the seminar "have a destructive influence on Egyptian society and they must be stopped and brought to trial…
Ah, "brought to trial", a dramatically ironic euphemism for "summarily executed".
I must laud the conference participants & organizers for their bravery in attending & holding such an incendiary discussion in Cairo!
That last comment was mine, the god-damn computer didn't change my name properly.
Rik Dangerous that is not Jsingleton (not one to steal peoples thunder Mr.singleton).
Hahaha, "Mr. Singleton"... thanks for legitimizing my alias, Rikki :-)
I'll believe in Islamic reform when Muhammad Luther dares to nail his list of grievances on the door of the Grand Mosque of Mecca.
regarding this phrase in the artic;e
"... with the participation of more than twenty intellectuals and researchers from the Arab and Muslim world"
what intellectuals? these people who spend their life deciding to stone a woman convicted of adultery with Ahmed, but releasing Ahmed because there is not enough evidence to punish him?
studing islam is like studying paranoid schizophrenia. These schizos are not 'intellectuals'......they remind me of the blind men, describing an elephant.
Thats the state of islamic 'scholarship'.
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~rywang/berkeley/258/parable.html
Sa'ad Ibrahim sounds just like Ishad Manji in claiming that the "gates of ijtihad" are wide open. How can that be said? It is nonsense, and of a piece with those would-be "reformers" such as Mustafa Akyol who, unwilling to admit that it is Islam tout court that in all its immutable fanaticism and aggression, must be constrained or otherwise limited in its influence and power, offer now this and now that implausible hope.
Who else in the Muslim world agrees with Ibrahim that the "gates of ijtihad" are "wide open"? Another few thousand souls, out of a billion (despite the best efforts of the New York Times to insist that there are now "1.5 billion" Muslims -- look for example at Roger Cohen's casual throwing out of that inflated figure a day or two ago)? And who believes that even if there were to come along a new Bukhari, a new Muslim, a new -- dare one suggest it -- Ignaz Goldziher, to winnow the hadith down further, throwing out as "rejected" anything that presented problems vis-a-vis Infidels, that the little matter of what is in the Qur'an alone would not suffice, as it did for several centuries, to inspire Jihad-conquest and then the subjugatiion of Infidels (for the hadith were not collected and winnowed, nor the biogrtaphy of Muhammad written, much less disseminated, until more than 150 years after his putative death.
And that talk about "dialogue" with "moderate and enlightened elements in the Western world" -- who would that be? Jimmy Carter? James Baker? George Galloway? Brent Scowcroft? The usual trimmers, hirelings of the Saudi Embassy, antisemites, naifs, and poseurs who have brought, in everything from their failure to recapture oligopolistic rents from OPEC, to their parroting of Saudi and Arab League policies, to their leaving the "gates of Muslim immigration wide open" -- the only "gate" that really matters to the Infidel world? Is this what even these so-called "reformers" mean by their supposedly brave confrontation, which we are to applaud, with what may be called the "problem" of Islam?
One is not impressed. Again, the only truthtellers born into Islam are those who have taken its full measure, and realizing the manner in which it encourages hostility toward all non-Muslims, discourages free inquiry, supplies a Total Explanation of the Universe that stunts the intellectual growth, and certainly the capacity for empathy and the free play of the imagination, of its adherents, and represents a permanent threat not merely to the "America of cowboy Bush," not to the "post-colonial" West, but to everyone who is not a Muslim, including that Hindu man seized and beaten to death in Bangladesh by worshippers leaving Friday Prayers, and that Buddhist villager murdered in southern Thailand for being -- or rather, for not being, a Muslim.
Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Walid Shoebat, Azam Kamguian, and many others have not only understood what Islam is all about, but are the best guides to taqiyya, to the nonsensical apologetics, the oiliness, the plausibility, the standard arguments of its apologists -- even those apologists who have not merely sensed a change in the air and realize that they have to present a "kinder, gentler" face of Islam, but in fact do recognize the mental distemper that Islam engenders but are unwilling, sometimes out of defensiveness, or filial piety, to go all the way and admit fully to what is wrong with Qur'an, hadith, and the acts, and sayings, of Muhammad, that "best of men" and role model.
Not "reformers" but ex-Muslims, whose testimony is now on record -- see www.secularislam.org, or www.faithfreedom.org -- and can be consulted by everyone, including our ignorant masters and policymakers in Washington, both those who think that "democracy" somehow is the answer, when the problem is Islam, and those who think we need only "reach out" to Muslims. Oh, they would like nothing more than another few decades of Western "reaching-out," and Western appeasement, and meanwhile, their numbgers in that appeasing and "reaching-out" West will grow, and grow, and grow.
If you are one of those who believes that we are engaged only in a "war on terrorism," then of course you can have no coherent objection if Muslims in Europe, for example, abjure terrorism, now can you? And if Europe is islamized, peacefully, through the natural overbreeding of Muslim families, and the successful appeal of Da'wa to all of the economically and psychically marginal members of the Western world (not to mention the occasional odd duck whose emotional ball Seeks the Truth, and having rolled under the Marxist settee, or that of Rolfing or crystal-therapy or Lyndon LaRouche or Scientology or god-knows-what-else, comes finally to rest under the green banner of Islam).
But if you think that Islam itself as a belief-system has impoverished, in ever way, those lands and peoples among whom it has come, and stayed, and subjugated the minds of its adherents, and impoverished their political and economic and moral and intellellectual activities, then it is not "terrorism" -- merely a tactic-- that is the problem. It is the belief-system itself. And no pathetic meeting of "reformers" in Egypt should distract or blind Infidels to that fact.
Oh joy! Another opportunity to vehemently disagree with Hugh on the one, and I'm beginning to suspect only, aspect of our respective points of view on Mohammadism that do not converge.
I do not agree that the term "belief system" adequately encompasses the true nature of Islam. Islam is an ideology that imports the full range of political, economic, social, cultural and religious aspects of the human condition. Parading Islam as a belief system or religion is tacit submission to the practitioners of taqiyyah who present to the non-Muslim world the ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing.
On every other point presented in his essay, I heartily agree. Hugh, will you please for once just say something stupid so that we might all have some satisfaction in rebuttal?
it would seem that a philosophy that brooks no opposition (no matter how flimsy) is indeed totalitarian
"Conferences such as these aspire only to cater to the American overlord, and they have no intention of [pursuing] reforms in the Arab and Muslim worlds. ???
wHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP WE HAVE GIVE THEM SO MUCH MONEY TRIED TO GIVE THEM INDOOR PLUMIMG AND WHAT?? THEY CRY WE ARE MEAN WELL WHO CARES STAY ON YOUR SIDE OR TO THE MOON ALICE!!
http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them open the Eyes of the World to their Threat Amen
3-Confronting all institutions – whether composed of clerics or lay persons – that claim a monopoly over religion and the proper interpretation of its holy text. Instead, a new spirit should seek to establish the right of ijtihad for all, under the banner of an Islamic reformation relevant to in the current century.
Would this be the holy text they are talking about??
Tabari VIII:90 “Abu Basir went out with his companions. When they stopped to rest he asked one of them, ‘Is this sword of yours sharp?’ ‘Yes,’ he replied. ‘May I look at it?’ Basir asked. ‘If you wish.’ Basir unsheathed the sword, attacked the man, and killed him. The other Muslim ran back to the Messenger, saying, ‘Your Companion has killed my friend.’ While the man was still there, Abu Basir appeared girded with the sword. He halted before Muhammad and said, ‘Messenger, your obligation has been discharged.’
Ishaq:464 “The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men.”
Tabari VIII:40 “The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence.”
GUESS HE DON’T WANT NON MULSUMS TO KNOW THIS IS THE SHIT THEY WORSHIP?
4- Confronting and refuting the visions and statements of radical religious movements so as to retard their penetration into the Arab society specifically among youngsters many of whom are living in a state of depression under the stress of economic hardship.
Better depress than have no head or hands??
Tabari VIII:38 “The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.”
Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”
AGAIN NICE STUFF WHEN YOU KNOW MONSTERS ARE DOING THIS LOOK AT WHAT HAPPEN IN RUSSIA A SCHOOL OF CHILDREN RAPED AND SHOT IN THE BACK AND BLOWN UP IN THEIR NAME YES IT WAS IN THE WORDS OF THEIR rock god THEIR MESSANGER WHO SAID TO DO THESE THINGS!!
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
SO WHY ARE THEY SO UPSET ABOUT THE PRISON [PANTIES ON HEADS NOT HEADS OFF] LIKE POOR MR. ARMSTRONG OR MR JOHNSON OR MR HENSLEY OR MR PEARL OR MR BERG OR MR BIGLEY ???
THIS IS WHO THEY WORSHIP BY CHOICE THE LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY AND HAVE A CHOICE BUT WE ALSO HAVE A CHOICE TO CODEMM IT!!
SO LITTLE MUSSI BE DEPRESSED AND GLAD WE ARE NOT THE SAVAGES THAT YOUR KIND ARE!!
But Remember we will forgive ourselves for what the terrorist make us do like our grandparents did in WW2 Our Hearts will Be Clean!!
Part of the American Tribe
Sqirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sght and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
PS
We Will Forgive ourselves for what the Terrorist make us do Just Like we Forgave ourselves for what the Germans made us do!!
I think there is no real disagreement above.
I like 'belief system'. I like 'ideology'. I like 'ideas'. I like 'doctrine'. I like 'principles'. I like 'norms'.
I like trying out every term in the ballpark until something 'sticks', and people remember what 'it' means, and start to learn about 'it' for themselves, and discover the horrors of 'it'. And what is 'it'? Islam...
"The participation of Western [research] centers in a discussion of Islam and its legal sources is a mark of shame and a disaster which society and its leaders need to prevent… It is an obligation to forcefully intercede so as to prevent [these] affronts. This is a group of [religious] deviants, one of whom has already been indicted on charges of treason; thus it is forbidden to deal with them and it is an obligation to consider them insignificant in society."
I give up. I'm off to the gun store to upgrade my arsenal.
I give up. I'm off to the gun store to upgrade my arsenal.
Posted by: Rottweiller at October 22, 2004 04:15 PM
New poll says people who own more then one gun will VOTE BUSH!!!!
Remember a gun in hand is better that 2 cops on the phone!!
also Remember to that the safty off if you have to shoot the thing!!
Part Of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter [Who carry's her own]
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her may the Evil not touch them give them Strength and Courage to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
But there does that leave kundalini yoga?
Most issues at stake in discussions of Islamic "reform" involve power and its uses. Hence, to compare it to the Protestant Reformation and therefore hope it will prove a "modernizing" force is fatuous in the extreme.
The welcome Western circles give to the idea of Islamic reform is woolly-headed and based on an vast ediface of misunderstanding--including of what the Christian reformation was all about.
The Protestant Reformation, whether we like it or not, was a return to the book, not a revision of it. It was the last of a series of biblicist movements in medieval Christendom, of which the Hussites, Lollards, and Waldensians were earlier other examples. None of these movements for a second believed in criticizing the Bible; but used the Bible to criticize church tradition.
Further, the whole movement of 16th century northern humanism fed the Reformation with its cry of "ad fontes"--to the sources--which, for Christian theology and practice were the Scriptures. Indeed, this original "humanism" was Christian to the bone, and accepted the Old and New Testaments as the revealed Word of God. It is no accident that virtually every prominent name associated with the Swiss Reformation--including Zwingli, Oecolampadius, Calvin, Knox, Bucer, and Bullinger--started out accepting the humanist critique of late medieval Roman Catholicism.
As for the bugaboo about "literalism" = "fundamentalism", it's nonsense on stilts. Quakers and Liberals love to quote the Sermon on the Mount to substantiate pacifism and other ethical points; much as more traditional Protestants quote other texts to substantiate points of doctrine.
Indeed, the "literalist" approach to Scripture, whether in the hands of Calvinists, Quakers, or liberals, did much to give us our raging political debates on limits of power, the just use of force, the propriety of things like slavery, the equality of women, stc. Figures like William Wilberforce, who spearheaded the abolition of slavery in the British Empire (and provided an example that reinforced abolitionist sentiment in America) was a flaming evangelical in his theology. Susan B. Anthony was, for her entire life, and active member of the Methodist church back in the days when it was pretty back-woodsy and, well, "fundamentalist".
Christian Scripture offers an ambiguous picture of power and its uses. Much of it was written by political outsiders; including all of the NT and the OT's reflections on the meaning of exile. It understands that "the good guys" can and do lose. The Qu'ran, by contrast, is the book of successful state-builders in their first flush of success. Hence, Islam will never be able to theologically cope with the loss of power.
Obviously, Mohammad was sincere at the beginning of his prophetic career. But, after the death of his first wife, a woman from a powerful family, he fell under the influence of criminal elements, who came to dominate him in his later years. Islamists would serve God by separating these two aspects of his calling, by reorganizing his written traditions, and questioning the dogma produced from the Quran.
Christian Europe held many synods to codify beliefs at times of schism. Yet, the Christian "West" is just as non-holy as todays self-rightious Islamic top thinkers and practitioners. The Words of Jesus Christ, across the centuries, have been abused, and misused, and rejected, in all forms of statecraft, by all the cultures that used it, or rejected it, to further thier struggles for dominance. In the 1960's began a retranslation of the Four Gospels, which up until that time, had become as nonsensical in their embodiments, as a Shakespearean Play. These translations have brought, formerly rival churches together in spirt, and in some cases practice.
Are Islamic saints arising in Cairo?