E.U. to help Arafat?

Dhimmitude... what if we had no choice?

I am Spanish. I live in Spain. Spaniards are terrified. This government has decided that we should solve the population explosion of the Mogreb by ceasing to exist as a Western State: Separation of Church and State and Human Rights look like goners for us. Zapatero is granting "green cards" almost for free to Muslim wetbacks (it only takes a 3-month contract. A 14-year old girl could get one if she tried). This is getting ridiculous: Muslim illegals living in France are crossing the border to take advantage of Zapatero´s State-suicidal policies. Meanwhile, the Spanish police has released statistics showing that 10% of all Muslim migrants are felons - yes, FELONS. That is a lot of people. As a result of this, Rule of Law no longer applies. Attempted lynchings of cops just made the news in several southern villages. Entire neighbourhoods are off-limits for European-looking people.

Nobody can tell for sure why the left-winger Spanish government is doing this, but among other reasons I would point out this one: They want hegemony on both shores of the Mediterranean. There is another Socialist Party in Morocco. Smallish (for now) Moroccan Trade Unions in Spain are part of the larger Socialist Trade Union (U.G.T.) , so it is expected that migrant Moroccans shall reward the favors recieved by making Socialists virtually unbeatable electorally.

We are making life easier for France and above all for Morocco.
The US like this. They want stability, they are afraid of rising Fundamentalism in Northern Africa. Mohamed VI is more or less of an ally, whereas a Fundamentalist Takeover looks almost certain if Morocco doesnt start exporting several million of his baby boomers, ill-bred country bumpkins, real soon. Remittances from Europe are very important for their economy. They are making quite a pile for themselves by transporting migrants from the Sahel into Europe, too.

The US want Turkey inside the European Union to protect Israel and oil supplies. Thats another 70,000,000 Muslims. Islamist Parties in Turkey have been banned 4 times on the last 32 years. The Democratization of Turkey shall weaken the ARMY´S grip on Islamism. in my uneducated opinion, Turkey wont turn into a shining beacon of democracy and prosperity. Europe is marching towards disaster.

Smirk all you want, but when you are finished, please pray for us. There are many terrified people here.

It is not true, anymore, that the United States wants Turkey in the E.U., whatever public pronouncements are made in Washington that repeat the old formulas. Like light that arrives from a distant star even after that star has been extinguished, policy is often made on the basis of previous considerations.

Turkey was more important during the Cold War, but its present usefulness was to have been as a staging base for the Middle East -- and there, as the Iraq War shows, it has not exactly met expectations, naive as they were (and all the miscalculations, from first to last, having to do with Iraq, are based on a misunderstanding of the power, and pull, of Islam).

But it is dawning on many that Ataturk's constraints on Islam are not permanent nor to be taken for granted: the canonical texts survive the rainbow of that particular despotic
Ataturkian will. If, after 80 years of Kemalism, after the creation of a large class of beneficiaries of its systematic constraints, if after 80 years of the carefully-cultivated cult of Ataurk, nonetheless an Erdogan can arise, with so much support, then it is clear that Turkey cannot be taken for granted as being permanently secularist, and that its inclusion in the E.U. would lead to further mosques, madrasas, further concessions to Muslims and easier migration of Arabs, through the entry-port of Turkey, into the E.U.

Do not, at this point, blame the United States for a possible okay to Turkey. First, because the American government has virtualy no powers of persuasion over the E.U. bureacracy, to which it is antipathetic. Second, because the American government includes those who now realize that Houston, we have a problem, and that problem that will not go away is Islam, and the texts that Believers read, hear, recite, repeat. And that is not to be cured by jobs or ending poverty (there is not that much poverty in Saudi Arabia), nor by "reaching out" to Muslims, but is much more likely to be reduced to manageable proportion insofar as Muslims themselves will be put on notice, and never allowed to forget, that the Infidel world understands what the matter with Islam is, is wary and alert, and will no longer permit immigration, will no longer allow the delivery of major weaponry (not merely WMD, but anything beyond jeeps and rifles), and will deny access to Western medical care, education, and so on.

Only thus will a sufficient number of Muslims, alarmed at the state of their own lands, realize that the game as before cannot continue, and little Ataturks may arise, here and there, and perhaps with them some "reformers" (which is the name that will be given to them, though they are more aptly to be called "constrainers" on Islam).

The best way to create the conditions for this are the very reverse of the received wisdom. DO not help the Muslim countries. Do not increase the contacts with them. Do not risk Americna lives to "rebuild" a country such as Iraq but leave it now to its own devices -- neither lives, nor money, nor attention, should be further lavished in such a misallocation of resources, when there is a world-wide problem to be dealt with, and that is best dealt with by lettint the obvious political, economic, moral, and intellectual failures of Islam become obvious to all, not least to thinking Muslims, who will be disturbed into action if they can no longer count on sending their children, or themselves, to the West.

We must stop rescuing, subsidizing, protecting the Islamic world in the vain hope that this somehow will change the nature of Islam. Not at all. It will continue to permit the continued health of Islam, and the continued dmeographic conquest, accompanied by a kind of intellectual conquest as Europe throws over its own history, its own past, and substitutes a made-in-Cairo version of that past, of Europe. That must end.

But, please do not blame the United States at this point for any of Europe's Muslim problems. Blame Chirac, blame Zapatero, blame the idiotic Solana. On this, count us out.

Hugh, i belive that a modicum of paranoia is in order here: no European NATION wants Turkey in. Their rulers are a different story but check out what the CFR has to say about it:

" Cook: Despite Some European Qualms, Turkey Will Eventually Join the EU "

http://www.cfr.org/pub7427/bernard_gwertzman_steven_a_cook/cook_despite_some_european_qualms_turkey_will_eventually_join_the_eu.php

It stinks. It looks like some people made a deal behind the scene. The Average European Joe is angry or scarede shitless, but their conservative or liberal leaders are toeing this multicultural line that nobody understands. Spanish villages are being ethnically cleansed even as we speak. It doesnt take mass graves, just a little prodding.

+ + + + + + +

"The United States supports Turkey joining?

Yes, but it's a little more nuanced. The United States certainly supports Turkey joining the EU. Particularly since 9/11 and the problems that we're having with the Muslim world, Turkey can be seen as a shining example of a Muslim democracy that can be part of the West. At the same time, I detect a certain amount of ambivalence among folks in Washington about this, because as Turkey moves closer to the EU, it necessarily, given political realities of today, will be moving away from the United States. For a long time, we could expect Turkey to line up shoulder-to-shoulder with the United States on almost every issue. That hasn't happened. Certainly this was demonstrated during the Iraq war, when Turkey aligned itself with the French, the Germans, and the Belgians."

Well, I am an American and I certainly don't want Turkey in the EU or more Moroccans in Spain and France. A Muslim-controlled Europe would be aiming Britain and France's nukes straight at us.

If the Spaniards don't want more Muslims then vote the stupid bastard Zappy out. He is a worse dhimmi than Chirac and Schroeder. He'll probably convert to Islam soon.

PS -- the Europeans could help themselves if they'd tone down the anti-American rhetoric. From this side of the Atlantic it really does look like you guys prefer Islamia to us. And I've communicated on the 'net with many of you who sounded like that too. . .socialists and left-wingers who were so terrified of the American capitalist monster, that they were more than willing to turn a blind eye to the Stone Age beast growing within their midst.

The US always used to be a supporter of further integration but they have been more reticent of late. I do recall that George Bush formally supported Turkey's accession to the EU during his visit to Turkey, however.

For those of us who have to endure the sight of an EU 'foreign policy chief' purporting to speak for us, the whole situation is staggering towards disaster. Yesterday the home affairs ministers agreed a whole series of areas on immigration, asylum, policing and judicial co-operation where the EU is grabbing more and more power, and the EU is single-handedly propping up the corrupt Palestinian Authority.

The EU buys up client states by giving them 'subsidies', bankrolled largely by Germany and Britain, then subverts their democratic institutions. On foreign policy it basically follows the French line: pro-Arab, pro-UN (and needless to say anti-American). A lot of people in Europe are beginning to realise that this developing superstate is going to destroy their national cultures and political institutions if it does not self-destruct first. I hope that those in the US and elsewhere can begin to see that this is far more than an exercise in co-operation between nations; it is the subversion of nation states and western society. If that sounds extreme, I'm afraid it is.

The U.S. and all other civilized peoples want integration, but we haven't had to face before a culture that refuses to integrate, that instead has decided to move in, take our house, lands, wealth, and human capital as the barbarians to the Ancient Romans, and the Europeans to the indigenous Native Americans. Past historical lessons seem to have taught us nothing. Certainly Muslims on the move have learned how to move in on unsuspecting cultures from their past experiences and from history AND have become masters of the more dangerous strategies: deception and deceit.

This isn't rocket science, folks. We all know about this, and unfortunately we have to take unpleasant measures to halt and prevent a further infestation.

The link below seeks to shed some light on the issue of Turky in the EU. I don't agree that an aging European population absolutely mandates replenishment immigration to sustain itself.

There are alternatives such as promoting larger families (Think Russia after WW 2) , offering pro-family legislation designed to provide economic incentive and relief to those wishing more children, reducing immigration from Islamic countries and encouraging it from non-Muslim states.

QUESTION HUGH: How in the world does opening European soil to complete Islamic colonization through immigration do anything to improve the economic prosperity of the EU? I am under the impression that the EU economy has remained flat and unemployment is problematic. it would seem that several million newcomers in a low employment situition would multiply the economic problem while compounding the existing multitude of social problems involving Islam.

The self fulfilling prophecy of an Islamified European continent is the ultimate nightmare scenario for the "Old Country". It is also the ultimate symbol of a societies self loathing , rejection and betrayal of its own culture.

http://www.cfr.org/reg_index.php?id=5|||1

olencrantz says, it looks like some people made a deal behind the scene. I'm not into conspiration theories, but given the EU's determinism about Turkey, and given the aggressively pro-Palestinian public position on Israel, and given the silence about the true face of Islam in and out of Europe, I must agree - otherwise the whole thing just doesn't make sense.

George Soros and a group of "wise men" that he employed to do research on Turkey's EU-membership, also strongly recommended EU to accept Turkey. What's in it for Soros, the American Jew with a passion for open society (and with Hungarian background - I assume Hungary also has a historical issue with Turkey)? Does he actually believe that EU will manage to dissolve Islamism in Turkey, or is he willing to sell Europe for something - if so, then what?

Suzan says: "the Europeans could help themselves if they'd tone down the anti-American rhetoric."

I absolutely agree. An European of mixed ethnicity and certainly a liberal, I am appalled by the overwhelming dhimmitude, anti-Americanism and anti-Israelism that is the public norm in Europe. And I've noticed it's surprisingly hard to do something about it. You try to discuss the human rights violations of Islamic fundamentalism with a class of social science students, and in a second, they are crying over the treatment of the Islamic fighters in Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo. You read articles in daily papers praising the rule of the Mullahs in the Middle East and try to publish alternative views - polite and PC, but referring to facts and the views of local dissidents - and they never get published (at least, different views on US politics are allowed to some extent, althougn there is no doubt about who is right). You have loads of academic conferences and seminars where even from the US, the most pro-Palestinian, pro-Muslim and anti-Western academics are invited to speak. You have other novels of Naipaul on shelves in bookstores, but not the ones dealing with Islam (forget about Spencer, or even Fallaci!). There is a total lack of realistic information and actual discussion when it comes to Islam, Turkey, Palestine and Muslims and it seems I'm just beginning to realize how hard it is to break the silence. Apart from the really big terrorist attacks (that you obviously can't keep secret), there are no bad news about Muslims or Islamic regimes - I get them only from English-language press and sites like this. If you try to discuss this with people, they think you're paranoid.

I certainly don't prefer Islamia to the US, but it seems to me too that most of Europe does. Well, at least there are a few of us working on it...

Enough is enough. There is nothing wrong in the current cliamte with shutting doors to people from countries that routinely have conditions that give rise to a terrorist mindset. Iran, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, Pakistan, Lebanon, and Syria all have state controlled media that routinely fall short of standards that we deem acceptable in so far as promoting racism and hate and promoting Jihad. Why not use that as an excuse to close the doors to immigration for any reason from those states. It is Draconian but the logic of these folks requires it. We cannot trust minds that are raised in these indoctrinating circumstances to be good Western citizens.

Huhhhhhhhh? I coulda sworn that I heard on this morning's news that Arafat is in need of surgery which cannot be performed locally and the Israeli gov't says they will both let him leave and return after the surgery.

Did it ever dawn on these fine, peace-seeking EU foreign ministers to ask Arafat why he walked out at Taba and immediately launched the long pre-planned 2nd intifada. That they could have done from the comfort and security of their own offices.

Just to remind folks of a relevant fact as far as Spencer's work is concerned.

To my knowledge, Islam Unveiled remains untranslated into French because of threats to the publisher and translator, I believe.

Intellectual terror exists in Europe that no one is willing to confront.

Thanks to all for your comments. I know that my initial post sounded fairly hysterical. Most of what I wrote, I heard from a highly-ranked , coolly analytical police officer. Thats how I summoned up the courage to write. But "Die Währheit kann alleine sich verteidigen" - the truth is able to defend itself: Living here is an enlightening experience, Theres no need for expensive books. We have Latino, Chinese, Eastern European communities here: ISLAM IS THE PROBLEM. Once they reach the 30% mark, its their way or the highway. Hysterical again. Learn form us. Keep´ em out or else. And pray for us.

OLENCRATZ

Have you personally seen problems with what can only be called Islamic harrassment of native Spainards? Do you think the Spanish are regretting the election of their socialist dhimmi leader?

I will pray for Spain and indeed all of what will soon be an Islamic Europe.

a) Specially against women: female teachers get insulted yelled at and dismissed by 13 year olds, if they enforce classroom discipline daddy comes along to threaten them; single women are accosted by middle aged Muslims because of their Western attire; married couples get rebuked for holding hands on the street, female midmanagement types get threatened again by eventual workers on cleaning assignments, 14-year old teenagres are mugged while their Muslim counterparts get the nod.... all this I have witnessed or know through firsthand accounts.

b) The very worst part is their sheer numbers and their lawlessness: we are getting about 65,000 algerian felons a year. I mean felons. Please belive that I am not making this up. France gives them tourists visas and they get into Spain instead, because, owing to an idiotic law of our idiotic government, if you manage to spend two years whithin our borders and get a job, then you are entitled to legal resident status. Illegals go underground for two years, then fake a "job" (a cousin hires them to clean the garden and they sign a contract to prove it) and voila: a Spanish/EU citizen is born. He proceeds to bring in 8 relatives.

Bottom line: left unchecked, these policies will bring the percentage of Muslims in Spain to around 25% in 10 years. Again, nobody seems to care.

c)Muslim spokesperson have demanded the removal of certain heraldic symbols related to the Reconquista. the Statue of Santiago "slaughter of Moors" at Compostela Cathedral is not longer visible...

d)Eastern processions in mixed neighbourhoods were vandalized last spring. We get stoned while praying, aint that cool.

Oh yes, the government: well, Spain´s Top Dhimmi is likely to run again for president in 2006. He is weak at the Spanish congress and he wants (or rather, he needs) to change that. The outcome will depend on the economy and crime. We have more than enough crime. Unemployment should skyrocket in the near future. Too many people working on construction. This is not Ramses the Great´s Egypt. Top Dhimmi is likely to lose. I might be wrong. Take care.

Olencratz-
Nobody's smirking. We're all praying that your country doesn't go down the dhimmi drain, but remember, God helps those who help themselves.

We will pray for you and ourselves as well because if John Kerry (the man who bowed and scraped to the North Vietnamese while American POW's were tortured in prison camps becomes President we will be following you down the path to dhimmitude.

Smirk all you want, but when you are finished, please pray for us. There are many terrified people here.

Posted by: olencratz

I for one am not smirking. I was just in Spain and I would agree with you olencratz, there are a lot of muslims there. More than the last time I was there. One thing you can do is to spread this website as far and wide as you can in Spain (and everywhere else in Europe)

"It stinks. It looks like some people made a deal behind the scene. The Average European Joe is angry or scared shitless, but their conservative or liberal leaders are toeing this multicultural line that nobody understands."

Something rotten is definitely going on! I've spoken to people in England, France, Belgium and Holland and they all hate what's happening to their countries (islamisation), and can't understand WHY it's happening. It's like the very people we elect to protect us are selling us out on a huge scale.

Politicians patiently explain than the ageing European work-force has to be replaced and that's why immigrants are entering the EU every year in their hundreds of thousands and even millions. Yet if you walk round Brussels or Paris in the day the cafes, coffee-houses and parks are all packed with unemployed North Africans. What's going on? Who benefits?

I can think of three possible explanations, and they're probably all true in varying degrees:

1. Many of our PC labour/socialist/green/social democrat politicians want to be seen as anti-racist benefactors of the poor downtrodden 3rd world and are prepared to let just about anybody into Europe, regardless of either short-term or long-term consequences.

2. Saudi gold is probably greasing more than a few palms.

3. OIL. Europe has to import most of its oil. I think it's entirely possible that some 'accommodations' were made behind the scenes. OPEC or some individual Arab countries made a deal guaranteeing the flow of oil to Europe. In exchange European countries accepted a large muslim intake (easing internal pressures on Arab countries - with the added appeal of exporting the demographic jihad.)

What else makes any SENSE?

It will be interesting to see what the forthcoming 'EURABIA' book has to say about this.

I have just returned from a 2 weeks vacation in Spain,i have visited Madrid,Barcelona,Toledo and the Baleare Islands.
Spain is a wanderful country,rich in traditions,culture and art,spaniards are a wanderful people,friendly,generous and kind.
The beautiful Calle de Ramblas,the main pietonal street in Barcelona and the parks are flooded by muslim immigrants,loud speaking,foul smelling,and littering.
I did not feel safe,and after long conversations with local people,the sad reality became apparent:spaniards are afraid,they are outraged by what is happening to their beloved country,their beautiful culture,religion and traditions...their country is being given away by corrupt,immoral,coward,inept politicians,Spain is headed toward national suicide and the government seems determined to destroy beautiful Spain,and to turn it into an islamic ,sharia ruled ,muslim country.
Millions of muslims are being given spanish citizenship,for they are to be the much needed replenishment for the exhausting spanish working population,and yet these muslims don`t get jobs,are not interested in working,geting an education,etc,they are an enormousfinancial and social burden .
In the mean time,potential immigrants from the former eastern block,hard working people,christians,professionals,are being ignored.
ALL OF THE PEOPLE i spoke with,spaniards,and i mean all of them are against such suicidal policies and yet nothing is being done to prevent it,they made the mistake to elect a socialist nut case and now it seems too late to avoid catastrophe.

Politicians are betraying their own people - letting the violence and crime rule the neigborhoods, cities and regions. Spain..Who could have thought?! Isabella the Catholic must be turning in her grave (in the meantime most likely everything is being done in Spanish schools to erase the memory of her and what she had done for her country). These people are scared, I am sure that they do not want to start what might become a WWIII. But if we continue on to ignore the problem...this particular problem will not go away. It is vital for those countries if they want to save their culture (well, that would be saving more than that - that would be saving themselves) to stop the immigration immidiately, and most definitely not accept Turkey into the EU - this is a suiside! Probably the people are too passive or brainwashed by their media who keeps screaming that the materialistic and emperialistic Americans are the worst...
Those poor souls have bought the propaganda and many of them truly believe that all the troubles in the world are happening because we touched that snake nest! This is the biggest problem - the local populace is still to realise that they are the ones that are, pretty much, occupied by the bloodthirsty kind that is getting ready to spread death and other horrors that are potentially worse than death (they have proven themselves all too well - in Beslan, Sudan, Aphganistan, Nigeria and countless other places)..

olencrantz this is just truly tragic. I have friends in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Britain, Germany. Everwhere there are Muslim immigrants, the story is the same. Horrible crime, honor killings, horrible rapes and awful disrespect shown to non-Muslim women, even little girls, sucking way more than their fair share of the welfare benefits, having too many children, marrying 12 year old brides from the "old country" and bringing them over too, ZERO respect for the culture and laws of the countries kind enough to take them in and give them welfare benefits and a chance to make a better life.

These people simply do not belong in a civilized country. I am afraid Europe has let the barbarians through the gates and will suffer another Fall of Rome.

". . . five E.U. foreign ministers would shortly be coming to Ramallah to end the siege of P.A. President Yasser Arafat, who has long been holed up in his Ramallah compound."

There is a better way to end "the siege of P.A. President [Since when was he elevated to President? He was Chairman of the P.A. since its inception] Yasser Arafat." It is not politically correct though. Now if the five E.U. foreign ministers were in the compound at the time--no! no! that is even less politically correct, even to think so is verboten.

What is happening in Spain is very serions and we should all do whatever we can to help them resist Islamization. From everything I have seen and read the US government from President Bush on down supports the admission of Turkey into the EU. I don't understand why unless it is to counteract the power of the EU and weaken it. A couple of posts have suggested that the US support of Turkey has waned. Does anyone have any evidence of that? I wish it was true but I don't think it is and don't understand why we should be helping them.

In another vein, fight terrorism by using less oil no matter how you do it.

Arafat is on death's bed.
The EU had better hurry or thet will arrive in rammallah for the funeral.
There will be a blood bath. Arafat's policies have seen to that.
Will we see Bill clinton at the fuberal and the euro dhimy heads of state?