New Saudi citizenship law: no Palestinians need apply

I want to thank you for posting this piece. The fact that Arab states have been directly responsible for helping create the current "Palestinian" crisis has escaped media attention for far too long.
There are several wonderful web archives and blogs that touch on this topic - but the information is scattered.
I would love to read - in one blog - a variety of contributors provide links to historical documentation of how - over time - this policy evolved.
Sadly, I imagine this information would be 'news' to some readers.

When I lived there it was not possible for non-Muslims to become citizens. How much you wanna bet that won't change?

Saudi Arabian leaders are dickheads....7th century pot bellied racist oil vendors.

If the rest of Arabia doesn't want the palestines living with them, why the hell should the Israelis. As has been said before, the palestines are just the undesirables,excess, and dropouts from the arab world.

Here is an article I found very interesting;

"PALESTINE?"
The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to once again obliterate the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, ‘the Philistines." So, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then on be called "Philistia" [further bastardized into "Palaistina"] to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine." The Arabs never give up trying to provide an historical link between the Arab "Palestinians" and the land. Some have even tried to link the name "Falastin" (which they use for "Palestine") with the ancient "Philistines!" The REAL ancient Philistines, however, were NOT Arabs... and neither was Goliath!!!! The Philistines were a migrant "Sea Peoples" who came from the area of the Aegean Sea and the Greek Islands and settled on the southern coast of the land of Canaan. The Arab of Palestinians are just that... Arabs! They have about as much historical roots to the ancient Philistines as does Yasser Arafat have to the Eskimos. The name "Palestine" has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Jewish, Chinese, Cambodians, Martians and certainly NOT the Arabs ancient history! It was merely a term first created by the Roman Empire. Even 900 years later when the Ottoman Empire [Turkey] had its turn to conquer the area, the term "Palestine" was still maintained to describe one of its districts. Palestine was a place within the Ottoman Empire... and never an empire of its own. Indeed Syria did not exist, nor did Jordan or Lebanon. It was all a vast tract of the Turkish Empire loosely called Palestine. THE RETURN TO ZION The Land of Israel was never devoid of Jews, although at times, only in the tens of thousands. This was because the land was virtually uninhabitable when the Jews once again began their God-given right AND duty to return to the land of their forefathers (the Zionist Movement) in the 1880s. The silly rhetoric about a massive Arab presence being overrun by "invading Jews" is quickly dispelled by Mark Twain, who visited the area in 1867. From his book, The Innocents Abroad... "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds -- a silent mournful expanse.... A desolation.... We never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." Palestine's early Jewish settlers were idealistic pioneers who arrived in pre-state Israel with every intention of living in peace alongside their Arab neighbors and upgrading the quality of life for all of the land's inhabitants. The vast majority of Arabs came to Israel AFTER these early Zionists pioneers began to drain the malaria-infested swamps and rebuild the land thereby creating the economic opportunities and medical availabilities which ATTRACTED Arabs from both surrounding territories and far-away Arab lands! In fact, over 90% if the Arabs in Israel migrated there within the last one hundred years. So much for their lie that they have been there since "time immemorial!" Yet while the returning Jews were highly motivated to restore the land, the Arabs seethed with envy and hatred because they lacked both the leadership to inspire them or the motivation for they in fact were historical strangers there! Unlike the Jews, these Arabs who immigrated had no ancient love or bond to THIS homeland ... this ancient Land of the Jews! In Conclusion: There was NO "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs created one AFTER 1948 and especially after 1967! Archeological sites to this very day continue to yield artifacts with Hebrew writing, not some fictitious "Palestinian" or Arabic text! The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now... Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically than other Arabs living in any other of the 24 Arab countries from which they came into "Palestine!" Had the Chinese come to the area, they too would be called "Palestinians!" And had the Arabs not continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this HISTORICAL HOGWASH about some "ancient" Arab Palestinian ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a REAL life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned! GREED, GREED, GREED! The Arabs of today occupy 24 nations... 99½% of the ENTIRE Middle East land mass while Israel has only a ½ of 1% speck on this same map. But that's still too much land for the Arabs to spare. They want it all. And that is ultimately what all the fighting is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis might make, it will NEVER be enough! Peace treaties between the Israeli and the Arab world are meaningless. Even the Israeli-Egyptian treaty is holding on by a single thread and if you were to read the Egyptian and Jordanian newspapers you would think they are still at war with Israel! PEACE IS IMPOSSIBLE! The Arab campaign against Israel is rooted not in a negotiable grievance but in a basic opposition to the very existence of Jewish sovereignty! The intent of the Arabs is to separate out Judaism from Israel... and then to separate Israel from the face of the Earth. The Death of Compromise "There's No More Middle in the Middle East"

Also, I hope I am correct in interpreting articles I have read - In 1948 there were many Arabs living in the territory that was to become Israel. When that territory was designated as being Israel, all the Arabs said they would not allow it and would go to war to prevent it. They said they would annihilate everyone in Israel and warned all the Arabs to evacuate. The Arabs were defeated and Israel survived. The Arabs would not accept those who were evacuated. So, those who evacuated found out they had gave up everything they had left behind and are now without a country. The organized themselves as being “Palestinians.” Now they want the “Right To Return” to reclaim what they gave up and are determined to eliminate Israel. The Arabs are supporting the Palestinians out in front to do the fighting for their cause.

to justamomof4: in response to your whimsy, i found an article in last week's "jewish press" quite enlightening on 20th century history of the region. though only a peripheral answer, it is good background

http://www.jewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=4267

Let me get this streight the Saudis have just stated they don't give a shit about the palis this is a good thing???

This means they will no longer support the Monster Killers?

What could make them change their minds?

Have they found out they can not eat Oil that is black oil I mean we can run our Trucks on Corn oil We will have to get busy and change some things but we can be busy beavers when we want to??

October 22, 2004
If you are a skier pray kerry doesn’t win cause Remember the airport shut down cause of Clinton’s hair cut? Well think of the ski slope shut down for the day? Yes anywhere he wants to ski? Maybe this is why Treza wants a win so bad won’t have to wait in line with the Regular People? Forget skiing in Idaho don’t they have a lodge there?
Kerry cks out rno again could he be looking for new skiing well think of all those business that will have to close and the little people try to get on the ski slope GOOD LUCK see it does matter who you vote for??
Kerry’s people write off the south??
Was that kerry’s Butler carrying his goose?

French admit they have citizens fight with the Terrorist in Iraq one 19 yr old dead thanks to the USA and The New Iraqi Army??
Isn’t better then fighting these MONSTERS on the streets of France?
China coal mine explosion kills 63[mulsumms] and 83 missing?
Of course this explosion happened after the riot in a mulsum area in china they were burning cop cars? Maybe the world could take some of that kind of action?
China opens a new Hooters?? WOW!!
Clinton has his sights on being Sec.Gen. of the UN? Could this be what kerry has promised him?
Flight from Mimi to Detroit a man found in the wheel well?
Romaine man smuggles a Mac. Gun into their only nuke plant? For only 100,000 Romaine lir that’s about 3 USA dollars?
Democrats throw pies @ Ann Coltar in AZ at a speech? Who says the Democrats aren’t violent??
Earlier this week there was a truck hijacked in Russia it was full of Radioactive mat?
There has been 3 attacks on chicken 2 trucks and one plant in N.C.
News reporter stabbed to death out side her apt. in Belarus’ ?
Pa. Cansford kerry removes towns people from their homes for photo op.? Police took enemata Domain for a couple of blocks took stickers off their cars and yard signs? Made them stand in a blocked off area in the cold? WoW! Oh! My!
No wonder we don’t have Vac. Makers with a 30 billion suit against American Manufactures? No wonder we have to outsource stuff and the Vac. Coming from England was tested by our guys and had Bacteria Would the Democrats rater we give those shots? Why don’t the People eat more chicken soup and spinach??
Has no one paid attention but ½ of the Flue Vac. Was contaminated with Bacteria? This Bacteria would have killed those who took the shot? Is it not a good thing we stopped it from coming to the USA?? Was outsourced From England This is what Kerry wants to do to all your drugs?
Think about how many people whined about the small pox Vac???
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat Amen

PS
Noticed that the woman who was kidnapped from care said today that the Brits were not to move north to Help Protect the Iraqi People from the MONSTERS now why would the MONSTERS care about protecting the Iraqi People?? We are sorry But the Need of the Many Iraqis out weigh the few many God Be with her and the Iraqis who the British will Protect from the Monsters??

Mayor to outlaw booze around Finway park during the game could he be a mulsum sorry Boston you may be lost? You had better start to have a booze party instead of tea??

The only reason that Saudi Arabia is "Judenrein" is that they have enough oil not to need any jewish dhimmis to do their work for them.

Posted by: THSIMJ at October 22, 2004 11:44 AM

Realy good post but he left out what happen in 1929 and through the 1930s and how they wer in line with hilter and wanted the deaths because of the Oil the Germans assisted this today is why we are Friends or maybe it is a tready with the Sauidis because they and Moroco where who sided with the USA

matter of fact arafat is not a pali he is an egyptian?

maybe it is time to tear up the tready we don't get much oil from saudi any more they are selling to china?

this is the arab plan to keep our eyes on something eles while they take all ov africa and other countrys?

but their plans are changing because of the loccus in Africa? ate all their Farm land yea Like I say you can't eat black oil??

Saudi has shoun their hand suprizing they think Bush will lose? this is why big money has come out of the Market to make Bush look Bad

Kerry campain kerry fans left before kerry was done talking??

saudi advisers have lied to them wonder if they will keep their heads??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Oen the Eyes of the World t their Threat Amen

PS
Why were the Arab Terrorist planing to take out the court of Spain??

DON'T TELL ME TERRORIST LIE??

Catherine:

The Saudis never gave a rat's @ss about the Palestinians. They were just useful foils on two fronts: their unending animosity towards Jews, because they dared cling to their own version of monothesism instead of embracing Islam, and, to paraphrase something Anwar Sadat said when he signed the peace accord with Israel (for which he was assassinated by the Muslim Brotherhood) "...they shed crocodile tears over the blood of the sons of Palestine and raise the price of oil."

If you haven't checked it out, there's a great post on FrontPageMag.com today -- a symposium titled Terrorism and Poverty. I'm sure all JW/DWers will enjoy John Loftus's perspectives.

And in answer to Catherine's second post

Yes, Arafat was born in Cairo (as was Edward Said) and is related to the Mufti of Jerusalem. He uses "Arafat" to distance himself from the Mufti's surname, which is also properly part of his. (You know those long, compound surnames that so many of the Sheiks use).

You can look this up and more at www. palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_plo_arafat.php

Edwin Black's article said:

"...the French were uninterested in relinquishing their designs on greater Syria, especially since the Lebanon region was overwhelmingly Maronite Christian. "

The Lebanese Christians have been almost exterminated in less than a hundred years - often with unbelievable violence and barbaric cruelty.

Details of the treatment of captured Christian women by the muslims and Druze are so disgusting that they remain burned into my brain 20 years after I saw a TV documentary - women with blonde hair, for instance, were scalped alive so muslim officers could hang the scalps on their jeeps as trophies.

The French could have sent in the Foreign Legion to protect the Christians. As far as I know, no such attempt was made.

When the Lebanese Christian militia tried to protect their people, they were denounced as 'fascists' in the western media.

Just like the Bosnian Serbs twenty years later when they tried to resist the imposition of Sharia Law.

One problem with the Arabs not admitting the Palestinians into their countries is that they continue to siphon off UN refugee resources that could be used to help refugees in other regions. So, thanks to the Arabs, their Darfuri co-religionists starve to death in squalid tarp cities so they can continue to attempt to destroy the infidel state in the dar al-Islam. Obviously, the Palis suffer for this madness as well.

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Reuters_Admits_Appeasing_Terrorists.asp
Reuters Admits Appeasing Terrorists

Reuters' global managing editor acknowledges that Arab intimidation influences his agency's news coverage.

HonestReporting has repeatedly denounced media outlets' categorical refusal to call terrorists 'terrorists' in news reports (see our special report on this topic).
As Islamic terror continues to spread worldwide, one major news outlet decided that enough is enough ― it's time to call terrorism by its name. CanWest, owners of Canada's largest newspaper chain, recently implemented a new editorial policy to use the 'T-word' in reports on brutal terrorist acts and groups.
So when CanWest's National Post published a Reuters report on Sept. 14, they exercised their right to change this Reuters line that whitewashes Palestinian terror:
... the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, which has been involved in a four-year-old revolt against Israeli occupation in Gaza and the West Bank. (Jeffrey Heller, 9/13 'Sharon Faces Netanyahu Challenge')
to this, more accurate line:
... the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, a terrorist group that has been involved in a four-year-old campaign of violence against Israel.
Reuters didn't like the adjustment, and took the unusual step of officially informing CanWest that if it intended to continue this practice, CanWest should remove Reuters' name from the byline. Why? The New York Times reported (emphasis added):
"Our editorial policy is that we don't use emotive words when labeling someone," said David A. Schlesinger, Reuters' global managing editor. "Any paper can change copy and do whatever they want. But if a paper wants to change our copy that way, we would be more comfortable if they remove the byline."
Mr. Schlesinger said he was concerned that changes like those made at CanWest could lead to "confusion" about what Reuters is reporting and possibly endanger its reporters in volatile areas or situations.
"My goal is to protect our reporters and protect our editorial integrity," he said.
[Schlesinger repeated this statement in a recent radio interview with CBC, when he described the 'serious consequences' if certain 'people in the Mideast' were to believe Reuters called such men 'terrorists.']
This is a stunning admission ― Reuters' top international editor openly acknowledges that one of the main reasons his agency refuses to call terrorists 'terrorists' has nothing to do with editorial pursuit of objectivity, but rather is a response to intimidation from thugs and their supporters.
In every other news arena, western journalists pride themselves on bravely 'telling it as is,' regardless of their subjects' (potentially hostile) reactions. So why do editors at Reuters ― and, presumably, other news outlets ― bend over backwards to appease Islamic terrorists, using 'safe' language that deliberately minimizes their inhuman acts?
Scott Anderson, editor-in-chief of CanWest Publications, said that Reuters' policy 'undermine[s] journalistic principles,' and raised the key question: 'If you're couching language to protect people, are you telling the truth?'
An editorial in the Ottawa Citizen, one of CanWest's newspapers, spells out the issue in black and white:
Terrorism is a technical term. It describes a modus operandi, a tactic. We side with security professionals who define terrorism as the deliberate targeting of civilians in pursuit of a political goal. Those who bombed the nightclub in Bali were terrorists. Suicide bombers who strap explosives to their bodies and blow up people eating in a pizza parlour are terrorists. The men and women who took a school full of hostages in Beslan, Russia, and shot some of the children in the back as they tried to flee to safety were terrorists. We as journalists do not violate our impartiality by describing them as such.
Ironically, it is supposedly neutral terms like 'militant' that betray a bias, insofar as they have a sanitizing effect. Activists for various political causes can be 'militant,' but they don't take children hostage.
* * *
The CanWest/Reuters affair is remarkably similar to CNN's Iraqi cover-up from last year, when CNN's top news executive admitted that CNN's knowledge of murder, torture, and planned assassinations in Saddam's Iraq was suppressed in order to maintain CNN's Baghdad bureau. We asked back then:
Now that this senior CNN executive has come clean, it leaves us wondering: In what other regions ruled by terrorist dictators do the media toe the party line so as to remain in good stead?
We now have our answer in the Palestinian region. Reuters admits to regulating their language to appease the terrorists ― and that's an open admission of pro-Palestinian bias.

COULD THIS BE BECAUSE BIG MONEY YES ARAB MONEY??

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/UNRWAs_Hamas_Employees.asp
UNRWA's Hamas Employees

The head of the UN administration in the West Bank and Gaza admits Hamas members are on his payroll. Media outlets ignore it.

Peter Hansen (pictured at right), Commissioner-General of the UN agency in Gaza and the West Bank, made a startling admission in an interview with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation on Monday (10/4):
I am sure that there are Hamas members on the UNRWA payroll and I don't see that as a crime... we do not do political vetting and exclude people from one persuasion as against another.
With this statement, Hansen verified what Israel has long contended ― the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), rather than performing a neutral humanitarian role in Palestinian regions, is actually infested with terrorists who use international funds and UN safe havens to facilitate attacks on Israeli civilians.
Hansen attempted to draw a distinction between UN employees who identify with Hamas 'politically,' as opposed to 'militant' Hamas members, but that distinction has been categorically rejected by the United States and the European Union, both of which blacklist all branches of Hamas, and freeze all Hamas assets, without exception.
Despite the gravity of this matter, Hansen's admission that Hamas members are on the UN payroll has ― as of now ― received scant media attention. The Associated Press, for example, buried Hansen's statement in an article that focused primarily on IDF air strikes, and the New York Times has yet to even acknowledge Hansen's admission.
This error of omission is particularly troubling in light of Israel's ongoing campaign in Gaza to stop Hamas from firing rockets into Israeli towns such as Sderot.
Hansen has long been accused of anti-Israel bias. In the wake of the 2002 Jenin operation, Hansen gave interviews falsely describing 'wholesale obliteration... a human catastrophe that has few parallels in recent history,' 'helicopters... strafing civilian residential areas,' and 'bodies... piling up' in 'mass graves.' Some of this carnage Hansen even claimed to have seen 'with my own eyes.'
KASSAM TRANSPORT, HISTORY OF ABUSE
Hansen's admission of UN/Hamas links came amidst a controversy over suspicious use of a UN ambulance in Gaza, with some claiming that footage from an airborne drone (pictured at right) shows Palestinian terrorists hiding a Kassam rocket in the vehicle. (
Regardless of whether this specific incident constituted abuse, the UNRWA ― under Hansen's watch ― has been responsible for numerous documented acts of abetting Palestinian terrorism, including:
● May 2004: Armed Palestinians are filmed (at left) using UNRWA ambulances to transport terrorists and, possibly, remains of fallen Israeli soldiers in Gaza.
● Sept. 2003: After the Israeli military court convicts three UNRWA employees for terrorist activities (such as throwing firebombs at a public bus), Israel detains at least 16 other UNRWA staff members for various security-related matters.
● Dec. 2002: A Shin Bet report indicates that numerous UNRWA facilities in the West Bank and Gaza had been used by Palestinian terrorists as meeting grounds and for weapons storage.
● Sept. 2002: Nahd Attala, a senior official of UNRWA in Gaza, reveals that in June-July 2002, he used his UNRWA car for the transportation of armed members of Fatah who were on their way to carry out a missile attack against Jewish settlements. In addition, Nahd admits he used an UNRWA car to transport a 12 kg explosive charge for his brother-in-law, a Fatah member.
● August 2002: Nidal Nazzal, a Hamas member and ambulance driver employed by UNRWA, confesses to transporting weapons and explosives in an UNRWA ambulance, and that he had taken advantage of the freedom of movement he enjoyed to transmit messages among Hamas members in various Palestinian towns.
● February 2002: Alaa Muhammad Ali Hassan, a Tanzim member, confesses during interrogation that he had carried out a sniper shooting from the school run by UNRWA in the al-Ayn refugee camp near Nablus. He also told his interrogators that bombs intended for terrorist attacks were being manufactured inside the UNRWA school's facilities.
FUNDED BY WESTERN DEMOCRACIES
The infiltration of the UNRWA by Palestinian terrorists is all the more disturbing given the funding structure of this international 'humanitarian' organization. As David Bedein reports:
The salaries of UNRWA workers are paid through contributions that UNRWA receives from 38 contributing countries. The U.S. provides 30% of that budget, Canada contributes 4% of that budget, and the European countries contribute well over 55% of that budget.

In other words, the western democracies of the world pay the salaries of the Hamas terrorists on the payroll of UNRWA.
Upon hearing Hansen's admission of Hamas members on the UNRWA payroll, a spokesperson for Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs said, 'we are deeply concerned, and will immediately seek clarification from Mr. Hansen directly and from UN authorities.'
Canada's contribution to UNRWA is $10 million a year, and total US support to UNRWA is approximately $100 million per year. This, despite the fact that the use of US taxpayer funds for foreign refugees who have engaged in acts of terrorism is illegal under the amended Section 301(c) of the 1961 Foreign Assistance Act.
A conference of UN donor countries to discuss ongoing aid to Palestinians is slated to meet in Norway on November 30.

UNTILL THE USA DECLARES WAR REAL WAR AGAINST THE REAL ENEMYS OF THE WORLD[UN]????

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 22, 2004 02:24 PM
the times art is old and there is a report out border report and it is called the Texas Report and it talks of 20,000 OTMs

Remember that mussis come in all shapes and sizes??

Think the Verona Papers??

It is this reporter's opinion that it is time to set the record straight for the misinformed Mexican illegal aliens and troublemaking Latino activists who call my Talk Back radio program monotonously.
They repeat for the millionth time the tired worn-out lie that "America stole the seven southwestern states from Mexico. This is our land, gringo, and we are taking it back!"
WRONG!
Here are the facts: Texans fought for and won independence from Mexico on April 26, 1836 following its victory over the Mexicans at the Battle of San Jacinto.
Nine years later, in December of 1845, the U.S. annexed the Texas republic. Congress sent General Zachary Taylor to Texas to protect its border with Mexico.
Mexico claimed the Rio Grande River as "their territory." After a series of attacks and clashes with Mexican troops inside the Texas territory, Congress declared war on Mexico May 13, 1846.
Hostilities continued for two years as General Taylor Scott led American troops to engage Mexican forces in New Mexico, California, and deep into Mexico. Mexico City was captured by General Scott in August of 1847.
February 2, 1848 Mexican officials and U.S. representatives signed a peace treaty known as "THE TREATY OF GUADALUPE HIDALGO."
The provisions of that treaty called for Mexico to cede to the U.S. 55 percent of its territory (that is present day Arizona, California, New Mexico, Texas and parts of Colorado, Nevada and Utah) - this in exchange for $15-18 million in compensation for war-related damage to Mexican property.
The U.S. Senate ratification of the treaty, U.S. forces then left Mexico City.
There you have it. There are the facts. Either accept the facts or continue living a lie.
The U.S. did not steal anything from Mexico; the former Mexican territory was won by the blood of young Americans like the ones who fought World Wars I and II, Korea, Vietnam, and are now engaged in Iraq. The seven southwestern states are American land, not "their land."
This despite what the pro-Mexican and Hispanic racist groups like La Raza, Aztlan, Lulac and La Mecha teach their uninformed young Spanish-speaking students in our own American public schools. Shame, shame, shame!
It is exactly how Adolf Hitler indoctrinated his people to kill anyone who opposed the German view of the world as he shouted, "Deutschland Uber Alles lebersraum!" (Germany over all and living room!). This is KKK American Nazi or Black Panther talk.
As Sgt. Friday said, "Just the facts, ma'am... just the facts."
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
One Reporter's Opinion - This Land Is Our Land
George Putnam
Thursday, Oct. 21, 2004
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/21/171059.shtml

does this sound fim??lot's of mules makeing big money running mussis??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

PS
GEN.ZINNI is a Sell out who supports Kerry pissed cause after he retired was set up to get oil money and his ego is hurt because Gen.Tommy Franks didn't use his plan??

Benelux, you mentioned the Druze treating Christian women terribly.

Who are the Druze?

For one thing they are the only "NON" Jews that are conscripted into the IDF. And Israel law as regards conscription and service in the IDF limits it to Jews. Facts: Check it out.

Over a decade ago I tried almost fruitlessly to find out just who the Druze were, checked every Encyclopaedia I could.

And then in the Encyclopaedia Judaica I found this

A close and secretive sect of Jews these people are an enigma. The Ilth edition of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica when discussing Druse (sie) admitted that its three pages of explanation were conjecture. But the secret of the Druze can be penetrated by looking in the 1974 Edition of the Encyclopaedia Judaica i vol 15, column 640. The sect was founded by the Jew Jacob Ibn Killis to placate the Moslems and have "remained loyal to their coreligionists"

I know quite a few Druze ;>, so perhaps I can fill in some blanks.

They actually call themselves "Mowahidun" it means "the monotheists." "Druze" is a name said to be derived from the disposed Shia cleric al Darazi. He was a mystic that held heretical ideas to Shia Islam (e.g., he deified the Egyptian caliph al-Hakim Bi-amr Allah, as well as promoted alcohol consumption). The sect actually started in Egypt and moved up into Lebanon/Syria over time. It is still extremely secretive, but some things have gotten out over the years to us nosy yahoodim.

They actually follow the Persian mystic Hamza ibn Ali ibn Ahmad, and consider him the last prophet. After the 11th century they closed the gates to admission! Like the Sikhs I think, they will not accept converts. They believe that as one Druze dies another is immediately born somewhere, that is, they believe in reincarnation- which begs a few questions, but I wont go into that here (i.e., my fav question to them: what if the ME gets hit by a huge asteroid?).

They are not very Manichean/Zoroastrian/Mythraic in they're metaphysics, esp. in their conception of "heaven" and "hell." They believe the two moral opposites are mystical distinctions, not physical/or defined places. They are more like gnostics, kabalists, or Sufis in this regard I guess. They believe that God created the world in an instant, not say in 7 days. They have abandoned the 5 pillars of Islam. They do, however, believe in the hidden imam, or their variant (= a kind of moslem Messianism). I think they actually calculated his day of return, which I think passed sometime in the late 80s!!! [ps., never talk about this subject w/ them]. They have their own holy book, which is a oral tradition rewriting of the quran, it's called the Kitab Al-Hikma.

Historically, they are technically a break off of the Ismaeli sect in the 9th century CE (like the Bahai, who also live in Israel albeit in much smaller numbers), which itself was a break off of Shia Islam. They were heavily persecuted by the Shia in Syria and Lebanon since their migration there. They have fairly divergent views from the mohamedan Sunna and are hated by the Sunnis, like the Shia. They have been seriously abused by the falistins, and hate them with a passion. They also have this famous curse, I think it's something like: '40 curses to the Shia, 30 to the Sunnis, 20 to the Christians, and 20 to the Jews' (!). I guess they don't want to leave anyone out.

They vary politically by geography in Israel - e.g., In the Golan they are a bit more pro Syrian (probably because the Israelis are not so adamant about annexation) and in the Galilee they are very pro Israeli. They espouse a sort of landed loyalty to whom ever rules the land they are on. They will side with the sovereign party completely, that is, militarily, economically and politically. They do have a checkered past in Lebanon though (i.e., Jumblat, et al), esp. in the civil war, both supporting Habashites in some cases and murdering political opponents, including not a few Maronites and, especially, the Shia. Perhaps the Druze cant deal with shaky alliances or a chaotic country.

On a personal level they are very hard core but extremely honest (a refreshin amongst given the neighbors), you can't joke about "their mothers dressing them funny," they will cut you in half, or die trying, if they feel insulted. You can and often do trust them with your life, and be very happy to return the favor.

p.s., Druze are not the only ones drafted into the IDF besides Jews. We have some 3000 Circassians. They are also fierce fighters. They're originally from the Northern Caucuses and were transplanted by the retreating Ottomans from the Balkans to Israel, like some Albanians- although the latter merged into what became the “Palestinians,”, the former remained distinct to this day and live in Israel and, more so, in Syria.

Actually, Siccari lurker, the Druze are an offshoot of Ismaili Shi'ism, and are regarded as somewhat aberrant Muslims.

Very informative, THISMJ.

The "palestinians" really don't have a legitimate claim, and the truth is not on their side. So they and their apologists use spin and lies. (Sound familiar, Catharine?)

That reminds me. Someone said, "Democrats throw pies @ Ann Coltar in AZ at a speech? Who says the Democrats aren’t violent??"

Yes, Catharine. Republicans blow up federal buildings, kill workers at Womens Health Clinics, and mail anthrax... yet when democrats throw cream pies, you soil your Depends?

Nuttin' but spin, nuttin' but spin.

Oh by the way, Mr. Spencer? You "forgot" to mention that Iran has thrown their support behind one of the presidential candidates. Here, let me help you.

Bush Receives Endorsement From Iran

Tue Oct 19, 6:33 PM ET
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer
TEHRAN, Iran - The head of Iran's security council said Tuesday that the re-election of President Bush (news - web sites) was in Tehran's best interests, despite the administration's axis of evil label, accusations that Iran harbors al-Qaida terrorists and threats of sanctions over the country's nuclear ambitions.
Historically, Democrats have harmed Iran more than Republicans, said Hasan Rowhani, head of the Supreme National Security Council, Iran's top security decision-making body.
"We haven't seen anything good from Democrats," Rowhani told state-run television in remarks that, for the first time in recent decades, saw Iran openly supporting one U.S. presidential candidate over another.
Though Iran generally does not publicly wade into U.S. presidential politics, it has a history of preferring Republicans over Democrats, who tend to press human rights issues.
"We do not desire to see Democrats take over," Rowhani said when asked if Iran was supporting Democratic Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) against Bush.
The Bush campaign said no thanks.
"It's not an endorsement we'll be accepting anytime soon," Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said. "Iran should stop its pursuit of nuclear weapons and if they continue in the direction they are going, then we will have to look at what additional action may need to be taken including looking to the U.N. Security Council."
Kerry, who says halting nuclear proliferation will be a priority if he becomes president, believes Bush should have done more diplomatically to curb Iran's alleged nuclear weapons ambitions. He says Iran should be offered nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes, but spent fuel should be taken back so it cannot be used to develop nuclear weapons.
"It is telling that this president has received the endorsement of member of the axis of evil," Kerry campaign spokeswoman Allison Dobson said. "But Americans deserve a president who will have a comprehensive strategy to address the potential threat of Iran's growing nuclear program."
The United States severed diplomatic relations with Iran after militants stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran in 1979 and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. Iranian clerics were crucial in determining the fate of the 1980 U.S. election when Republican Ronald Reagan (news - web sites) won in part because Democratic incumbent Jimmy Carter was unable to secure the hostages' release.
The hostages were freed as Reagan was inaugurated.
The United States supported Iraq (news - web sites) in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, but by the late 1990s, U.S.-Iranian relations were somewhat better. They plummeted again after Bush accused Iran of being part of the "axis of evil" with North Korea (news - web sites) and prewar Iraq.
The Bush administration also accuses Iran of pursuing nuclear weapons and sheltering operatives of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al-Qaida terror network. Still, Iran was happy to see Bush destroy two big regional enemies — the Taliban in Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) in Iraq.
Iranian political analyst Mohsen Mofidi said ousting the Taliban and Saddam was the "biggest service any administration could have done for Iran."
And Bush, he said, has learned from his mistakes.
"The experience of two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the responsibility Bush had, will make it a very remote possibility for him to risk attacking a much bigger and more powerful country like Iran," he said.
Mofidi added that "Democrats usually insist on human rights and they will have more excuses to pressure Iran."
Republican and Democratic presidents have issued executive orders against Iran, with Reagan in 1987 barring Iranian crude oil and other imports, and Bill Clinton (news - web sites) in 1995 banning U.S. trade and investment in Iran.
"We should not forget that most sanctions and economic pressures were imposed on Iran during the time of Clinton," Rowhani said. "And we should not forget that during Bush's era — despite his hard-line and baseless rhetoric against Iran — he didn't take, in practical terms, any dangerous action against Iran."
Bush has been reluctant to offer Iran any incentives for better U.S.-Iranian relations, but in recent days there have been signs Washington will back European economic incentives if Iran stops uranium enrichment activities.
Gholamreza Aghazadeh, head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, was quoted by state-run television Tuesday as saying Iran is interested in buying nuclear fuel from the West, but will not concede its right to the technology.
The nuclear issue has been most sensitive, and the Bush administration is threatening to press for sanctions against Iran over it. Tehran says its nuclear ambitions are peaceful, for energy purposes.
Kavoos Emami, another Iranian political analyst, praised Kerry for mentioning the need for dialogue with Iran, and said the Democrat would be better for Iran.
"Bush has insulted Iran more than any other U.S. administration. If Kerry is elected, a U.S. military attack against Iran will never happen or will be a very remote possibility," he said.

This is a little off topic (no; really!) Has everyone read about the militias of Uganda conscripting 20 THOUSAND children in the past decade? Amazingly, this issue gets very little press, neither in the pro-"palestinian" mainstream media, nor in the left-wing "alternative" media (which LIVES to insult Israel and fellate Arafat.)

We really should consider the 20,000 children dead, since those jungle militias don't have very good retirement plans.

Anyway, I am constantly amazed at the amount of press time given the "poor, poor palestinians" when the total killed in Israel since 1990, including both of Arafat's failed terrorist "intifadas" is LESS THAN 10,000 (on both sides.)

In the same period over 1 million have been killed in Somalia, 2 million in Sudan, and over 100,000 in each of Kashmir, the Philippines, and Algeria. And 500,000 died of malnutrition in Iraq (before the US invasion) while Saddam spent 1 Billion oil-for-"food" dollars on safe houses (apparently that wasn't enough.)

Given the fact that the left-, center-, and even right-wing media pretty much ignores ever calamity in the world EXCEPT the one allegedly started by Jews, I'm not surprised that they are ignoring the terrible situation in Uganda. (And have been for some time now; I saw this same story almost a year ago on CNN for ONE day. Then it was gone, and didn't resurface until this week.)

In fact, the only remarkable thing about the situation in Uganda is the fact that--believe it or not--Islam isn't directly involved.

Note I said "directly involved." A case could be made that it was set up by Islam. Recall that Uganda was ruined by Idi Amin who as a perfect Muslim, was given sanctuary in Saudi Arabia, of all places. (Note to president Bush: I think his villa is available.)

K.J....

If the Iranians have thrown their support behind Bush it's (superficially) because they know he can be easily manipulated depending on which way the wind blows, but most importantly, he has a sweet, non-bitch of a wife and not a trace of Jewish blood.

P.S. Can we possibly send Teresa on a long journey somewhere when she becomes First Lady? I think Iran would be a PERFECT place!! Kerry's daughters, polite gentlewomen, can assume the post of First Ladies, much as Thomas Jefferson's eldest daughters did.