Just in case anyone still thinks this is a movement based around a charismatic leader, and not an ideology that is larger than any one person. From AP, with thanks to Ali Dashti:
WASHINGTON – The top American commander in Afghanistan said Tuesday he has no evidence Osama bin Laden is in day-to-day control of al-Qaeda but suggested the long-absent terrorist leader is alive.Lt. Gen. David Barno, speaking to reporters during a visit to the Pentagon, talked mostly of a lack of evidence about bin Laden's whereabouts, health and current role in the al-Qaeda network. He remains, however, a critical target, Barno said.
Still, "I don't see any indications that he is in day-to-day command and control, as it were, of the al-Qaeda organization or the other terrorist groups that work with him, certainly in the Afghanistan-Pakistan area," Barno said.
Barno suggested that bin Laden's death would be difficult to conceal from intelligence services, even if he died in a secret place, because his associates would talk about it. Recent communications from al-Qaeda's top echelon have come from bin Laden's chief deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, as videotaped messages.
Bin Laden is just one among many. He goes public from time to time to rivet our attention. The truly dangerous are those that remain behind the scenes or those that are in the forefront that have no tangible connection with the jihadists. Yes, the bombers are dangersous, but they aren't as dangerous as the "non-violents," those that infiltrate and occupy to use our institutions against us.
He's alive but he wants the world to think he's dead. I won't be satisfied until I've seen evidence of his corpse.
Did it come as a suprise to anyone else that Zarcarwi pledged his allegience to UBL? Apprently we are getting close to him and he wanted to give the masses some direction beofre he left.
what a lame excuse spencer. bin ladin might be taking a backseat in running alqaeda now but he still is the figurehead and was incharge when 911 happened. he needs to be arrested and locked up. and for you to try and support bush's pitiful excuse of why the focus has been taken off binladin because he is not running things now is just idiotic.
Riboflavin,
How do you know he's still in charge???You can't take everything he whispers into your ear during sex as gospel you know???
prior to tora bora, bin laden was quite public: releasing videos, giving interviews, etc. now he is a mythical figure. if dead, i wouldn't put it past zawahiri to perpetuate the fiction of his being alive. as far as i can tell, the last proof of life for bin laden was a cell telephone intercept as he was fleeing tora bora
Borg Destroyer - loved your last post, LOL
And look at how long G.Kaun body has been missing???
ubl NO SEE SINCE TORA-BORA AND THAT WAS IN DEC.2001??
It is to their need to fake that he is not in hell like saddam[FOUND IN A HOLE DON'T SHOOT I AM A YELLOW COWARD]We know that most of his family is in Iran??
I say the USA and Russia start bombing all of his houses and factorys no matter where they are and damn this PC crap!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
catherine is english even your first language or are you just a stupid hick.... your posts are insane. most of who's family bin laden's? is this known from some article on such highly "credible" sources as frontpage or newsmax.... or debka. and even if say a couple of his wives and children are there does this justify bombing a soverign nation. and you must remember these aligations that his family are there are they even proven correct or are they like the mythical wmds. and whats this whole thing about factorys? whose factorys.
my personal opinion is osama is dead or has signed over control too Dr. Zawahri who seems to be the real brains behind the show with bin laden being a figurehead and being the more theological side.
Hi riboflavin - I thought a good ole liberal like yourself would know better than to use a term so loaded with class hatred as "stupid hick". You betray your innate middle class arrogance by calling working class whites who live outside urban areas "hicks". But then again I always thought it strange that "underdog" supporting liberals have the utmost disdain for the blue collar men and women who help feed and run this country.
ribo
Believe it was the Iranians themselves who said they had his oldest son that is no secreat as you say and they were moved because of the EARTHQUAKE??That killed 30,000 Iranians?
Of course whe have this from the qu-ran?
Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”
I would say that was a pretty big warning??That the armys they are harbering are not on the side they think?
Lets look?
Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free the Iraqi people as it says
He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”
Yes he has chosen the USA!!
And lets look at another part?
The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,
Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?
There will be no more warnings?
ubl son in Iran and an EARTHQUAKE KILLS 30,000?
I see no problem with bombing his houses after all Bill Cliton Bombed his asprin Factory?
We do a turn them over or we take out the houses that is not war n a country we didn't invade the Sudan just bombed the factorys!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Defeat Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
Osama is the Saudi (Wahhabi) emissary to the Shi'i of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The Taliban are a Wahhabi-Shi'i synthesize, as the name implies.
Ali ibn Abu Talib was the first Shi'i Imam (Saint), the cousin of Muhammad, and the husband
of Muhammads daughter Fatima.
Talib means student, but Ali's father was not named Talib or Student.
Ali's name translates Ali son of the father of the Student, it is self referential and circular
akin to Dubya son of the Father of Bush 43.
In other words it was Ali who was the Student (of Muhammad) and his first convert, so he was the son
of the Father of the Student. Muhammads fathers name was Slave of Allah, Abd Allah, and he was
the custodian of the "moon rock of Allah" in the Ka'ba, from which he earned his living by remittances
from pagan pilgrims.
The problem I have with you and others, is that you all are unwilling to address the fact that
your George W. Bush and family are butt buddies and business partners with the Saudi's,.
The Bush Saudi connection
And Dubya also helped the Bin Ladens flee the country after 9-11, to escape FBI interrogation.
And by the way Bush receives endorsement form Iran
The Bush Saudi connection
And Dubya also helped the Bin Ladens flee the country after 9-11, to escape FBI interrogation.
And by the way Bush receives endorsement form Iran
Posted by: Giaour at October 20, 2004 07:26 PM
You didn't hear it was your buddy Clark who let the saudis go?
You are just a more kool-aid drinker??
Bush, Putin tout new era
May 25, 2002 Posted: 6:45 PM EDT (2245 GMT)
ST. PETERSBURG, Russia (CNN) -- One day after President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a landmark nuclear arms reduction treaty, the men continued to tout a new era of cooperation between their nations.
"The treaty we signed says a lot about nuclear arms. It speaks about the need for peace," Bush told a packed auditorium Saturday at St. Petersburg University.
"But it also says the Cold War is over. And America and Russia need to be and will be friends for the good of the world."
Under the treaty, nuclear arsenals will be cut by roughly two-thirds over 10 years. (Full story)
Bush arrived at the Kremlin in Moscow on Thursday, his second stop in a weeklong European tour.
The war on terrorism and trade were two key topics discussed by the leaders, they told the crowd.
"We've got a new war to fight together. We're joined to fight against blood-thirsty killers," Bush said.
"These people hate freedom. They hate multi-ethnic societies. They can't stand religion."
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AMEN
PS
Bush: WWII Memorial a 'fitting tribute'
Saturday, May 29, 2004 Posted: 8:44 PM EDT (0044 GMT)
(CNN) -- In dedicating the World War II Memorial, President Bush addressed more than 140,000 people who had gathered on Washington's National Mall.
The following is a transcript of his speech:
BUSH: I'm honored to join with President [Bill] Clinton, President [George H.W.] Bush, Senator [Bob] Dole and other distinguished guests on this day of remembrance and celebration.
And, General [P.X.] Kelley, here in the company of the generation that won the war, I proudly accept the World War II Memorial on behalf of the people of the United States of America.
Raising up this memorial took skill and vision and patience. Now the work is done. And it is a fitting tribute -- open and expansive, like America; grand and enduring, like the achievements we honor.
The years of World War II were a hard, heroic and gallant time in the life of our country. When it mattered most, an entire generation of Americans showed the finest qualities of our nation and of humanity. On this day, in their honor, we will raise the American flag over a monument that will stand as long as America itself.
In the history books, the Second World War can appear as a series of crises and conflicts, following an inevitable course from Pearl Harbor to the coast of Normandy to the deck of the Missouri.
Yet, on the day the war began, and on many hard days that followed, the outcome was far from certain. There was a time in the years before the war, when many earnest and educated people believed that democracy was finished. Men who considered themselves learned and civilized came to believe that free institutions must give way to the severe doctrines and stern discipline of a regimented society.
Ideas first whispered in the secret councils of a remote empire, or shouted in the beer halls of Munich, became mass movements, and those movements became armies. And those armies moved mercilessly forward, until the world saw Hitler striking in Paris and U.S. Navy ships burning in their own port.
Across the world, from a hiding place in Holland to prison camps of Lausanne, the captives awaited their liberators. Those liberators would come, but the enterprise would require the commitment and effort of our entire nation.
As World War II began, after a decade of economic depression, the United States was not a rich country. Far from being a great power, we had only the 17th-largest army in the world. To fight and win on two fronts, Americans had to work and save and ration and sacrifice as never before.
War production plants operated shifts around the clock. Across the country, families planted victory gardens -- 20 million of them -- producing 40 percent of the nation's vegetables in backyards and on rooftops. Two out of every three citizens put money into war bonds. As Colonel Oveta Culp Hobby said, this was a people's war, and everyone was in it.
As life changed in America, so did the way that Americans saw our own country and its place in the world. The bombs at Pearl Harbor destroyed the very idea that America could live in isolation from the plots of aggressive powers. The scenes of the concentration camps, the heaps of bodies and ghostly survivors, confirmed forever America's calling to oppose the ideologies of death.
As we defended our ideals, we began to see that America is stronger when those ideals are fully implemented. America gained strength because women labored for victory in factory jobs, cared for the wounded, and wore the uniform themselves. America gained strength because African-Americans and Japanese-Americans and others fought for their country, which wasn't always fair to them.
In time, these contributions became expectations of equality. And the advances for justice in post-war America made us a better country. With all our flaws, Americans at that time had never been more united.
And together, we began and completed the largest single task in our
history. At the height of conflict, America would have ships on every ocean
and armies on five continents and, on the most crucial of days, would move the equivalent of a major city across the English Channel.
And all these vast movements of men and armor were directed by one man who could not walk on his own strength. President Roosevelt brought his own advantages to the job. His resolve was stronger than the will of any dictator. His belief in democracy was absolute. He possessed a daring that kept the enemy guessing. He spoke to Americans with an optimism that lightened their task.
And one of the saddest days of the war came just as it was ending, when the casualty notice in the morning paper began with the name Franklin D. Roosevelt, commander in chief.
Across the years, we still know his voice. And from his words, we know that he understood the character of the American people.
Dictators and their generals had dismissed Americans as no match for a master race. FDR answered them. In one of his radio addresses, he said, "We have been described as a nation of weaklings, playboys. Let them tell that to General MacArthur and his men. Let them tell that to the boys in the Flying Fortresses. Let them tell that to the Marines."
In all, more than 16 million Americans would put on the uniform of the soldier, the sailor, the airman, the Marine, the Coast Guardsman or the merchant mariner. They came from city streets and prairie towns, from public high schools and West Point. They were a modest punch, and still are.
The ranks were filled with men like Army Private Joe Seccato. In heavy fighting in France, he saw a good friend killed, and charged up a hill,
determined to shoot the ones who did it. Private Seccato ran straight into enemy fire, killing 12, wounding two, capturing four, and inspiring his whole unit to take the hill and destroy the enemy.
Looking back on it 55 years later, Joe Seccato said, "I'm not a hero. Nowadays they call what I did road rage."
This man's conduct that day gained him the Medal of Honor, one of 464 awarded for actions in World War II.
Americans in uniform served bravely, fought fiercely and kept their honor, even under the worst of conditions. Yet they were not warriors by nature. All they wanted was to finish the job and make it home.
One soldier in the 58th Armored Field Artillery was known to have the best kept rifle in the unit. He told his buddies he had plans for that weapon after the war. He said, "I want to take it home, cover it in salt, hang it on the wall in my living room so I can watch it rust."
These were the modest sons of a peaceful country, and millions of us are very proud to call them "Dad." They gave the best years of their lives to the greatest mission their country ever accepted.
They faced the most extreme danger, which took some and spared others for reasons only known to God. And wherever they advanced or touch ground, they are remembered for their goodness and their decency.
A Polish man recalls being marched through the German countryside in the last weeks of the war, when American forces suddenly appeared. He said, "'Our two guards ran away.' And this soldier with little blond hair jumps off his tank. 'You're free,' he shouts at us. We started hugging each other, crying and screaming. God sent angels down to pick us up out of this hell place."
Well, our boys weren't exactly angels. They were flesh and blood, with all the limits and fears of flesh and blood.
That only makes the achievement more remarkable -- the courage they showed in a conflict that claimed more than 400,000 American lives, leaving so many orphans and widows and Gold Star mothers.
The soldiers' story was best told by the great Ernie Pyle, who shared their lives and died among them.
In his book, "Here's Your War," he described World War II as many veterans now remember it.
"It's a picture," he wrote, "of tired and dirty soldiers who are alive and don't want to die; of long, darkened convoys in the middle of the night; of shocked, silent men wandering back down the hill from battle; of jeeps and petrol dumps and smelly bedding rolls and C-rations; and blown bridges and dead mules and hospital tents and shirt collars greasy black from months of wearing; and of laughter, too; and anger and wine and lovely flowers and constant cussing. All these it is composed of, and of graves and graves and graves."
On this Memorial Day weekend, the graves will be visited and decorated with flowers and flags. Men whose step has slowed are thinking of boys they knew when they were boys together. And women who watched the train leave and the years pass can still see the handsome face of their young sweetheart. America will not forget them either.
At this place, at this memorial, we acknowledge a debt of long standing to an entire generation of Americans -- those who died, those who fought and worked and grieved and went on. They saved our country, and thereby saved the liberty of mankind.
And now I ask every man and woman who saw and lived World War II, every member of that generation, to please rise, as you are able, and receive the thanks of our great nation.
May God bless you.
Nobody knows if OBL is dead, because all the witnesses to his death met the same fate at the same time in Tora Bora.
so I take it your a rush limbaugh listener with that "kool-aid drinker" line. whats really sad is the liberals use that saying now too.
i think Saif Al-Adel said that binladin escaped tora bora in a essay he wrote about the lessons learned from the defense and retreat from tora bora i might be wrong i read a translated copy of it off of memri a while back. he is actually believed to be in iran . he's been very quiet recently though pretty dangerous guy because he has had military training and was a colonel in the egytian special forces.
from the Sunday Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1313759,00.html
Territorial Army infiltrated by Al-Qaeda
David Leppard
THE Territorial Army has been infiltrated by Al-Qaeda suspects, giving the Islamic terrorist group potential access to military bases, explosives and fuel dumps.
Five Al-Qaeda suspects are believed to have trained as part-time soldiers with the TA. At least one is now in custody.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has confirmed that other terror suspects have attempted to join the TA, but says they were rejected after undergoing security checks.
The connection with Britain’s Al-Qaeda network was uncovered in a series of wide-ranging investigations by MI5 and Scotland Yard’s Special Branch.
It is believed the terrorist suspects may have been taking advantage of military training as well as gaining access to bases and weapons.
Patrick Mercer, the Tory homeland security spokesman and a former army officer, said Al-Qaeda terrorists could use TA passes to penetrate security at key MoD establishments such as the permanent joint headquarters at Northwood in Greater London.
“This could have very serious security implications. Clearly in the war against terror you need to know who your friends are. The last thing we want is the enemy masquerading as our own people,” Mercer said.
The TA has about 41,000 members and comprises a substantial portion of the 102,000-strong British Army and has 329 centres throughout the country.
Most recruits have access to small arms and undergo infantry training. Security experts say while such access may be limited, terrorists could get greater benefit from targeting selected units such the Intelligence Corps, the Royal Engineers and logistics units.
The TA’s Royal Engineers would give them access to explosives. The Royal Logistics Corps would provide access to military fuel dumps and a fleet of tankers. Many army tanker drivers now on duty in Iraq are TA soldiers.More than 7,000 have been called up to serve in Iraq — the largest deployment in its 97-year history.
The MoD says all TA applicants went through the same “security check” procedure as members of the armed forces.
Candidates fill in a standard form that is passed to the Defence Vetting Agency, which carries out checks on the applicant’s nationality and family background.
Further checks are made against criminal records and candidates are asked to disclose if they have any known terrorist affiliations.
“They are very basic,” said an MoD spokesman. “We do check the information on the form and issues are spotted and managed as appropriate. People do fail the vetting because of associations with terrorist organisations.”
Details of the TA connection have emerged in an inquiry by Scotland Yard into the background of several suspects arrested in Britain earlier this year. The arrests followed a tip-off from Pakistan, although details of the case cannot be reported for legal reasons.
part 2 from the Sunday Times
The Sunday Times
Page 1 || Page 2
Senior police and intelligence officers want to know whether terrorists are making a concerted effort to penetrate the TA as part of an initiative to gather intelligence for an attack.
Some believe they are attracted to the TA because it gives them a legitimate cover to undergo military training.
The territorials have previously been the target of terrorist interests. In the mid-1990s, Special Branch uncovered a plan by hardline animal rights activists to acquire explosives from weapons dumps.
MI5 and Scotland Yard has known for at least two years that as well as targeting the TA, Al-Qaeda recruiting sergeants in mosques are sending potential recruits on outward-bound courses to improve their fitness and undergo mock weapons training.
In the early 1990s the IRA bombed several TA barracks including the headquarters of the Honourable Artillery Company in the City of London, and a barracks in Hammersmith.
Despite a series of arrests by police and MI5, security officials stress that Al-Qaeda still poses a serious threat to Britain. Recently acquired intelligence suggests the group has been planning a “spectacular” attack, possibly using car bombs against high-rise office blocks in the City of London.
There are also fears that the group could target shopping centres and railway stations.
Riboflavin,
You're in no position to critisize Catherines spellings or gramma, if I gave a baboon (thats the species of ape that probably reminds you of your mom ) a pen, it'd no doubt come up with something 100 times more intelligable ( or at least slightly interesting, as apposed to not being.
BTW- Thats me again.....
Rikki.... AKA..... Borg Destroyer..... AKA... Rik Dangerous!!!