U.S. Would Accept Sharia State in Iraq

It looks like Laurence Auster's barrage against the neoconservatives is proving true. The "Neocons" believe that in any given block of humanities marble, lies a democratic being breaking out, emerging from each blow of Pax Americana's hammer.

Not every culture is willing to embrace America's vision of the world and not every country is a new America waiting for fruition.

The path Iraq chooses may shape US foreign policy for the remainder of America's existence, which undoubtedly will be significantly shorter due to its preoccupation with "the world" and promotion of the world within its own boarders under the guise of multiculturism and suicidal immigration policy.

Very sad indeed.

Will Iraq be better under Sharia than under Saddam? Time will tell. It seems that Sharia is being forced upon the population by Iran and the insurgency. Note the tactics. They will try the same thing here.

If people vote in sharia law, how is that any different than Germans voting in Adolph Hitler?

In the first case, christians in Iraq will be deprived of their rights, just as Jews in Germany were deprived of their rights.

How is either democratic?

That's Just Wrong. But again, it begs the question: if a Sharia state is what will be elected, why are the terrorists fighting so hard to stop the elections happening?

Bush is making a big mistake. Makes one wonder how many magnitudes worse a kerry presidency would be for the world.

19 October 2004 -- U.S. President George W. Bush says he would be disappointed but would accept it if Iraqis voted to create an Islamic fundamentalist government in democratic elections.

I HAVE HEARD HIM SOMETHING DIFFERINT SO WHO REPORTED TINS STORY? WHERE DOES THEIR MONEY COME FROM? ARE THE IN LEAGE WITH DAN RATHER?

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE EYES OF THE WORLD TO THEIR THREAT AMEN

SAY

It's basically changing the "q" in "Iraq" to an "n". What could be simpler?

What is the point of all this?

Saddam Hussein, an otherwise evil man, but one who did protect Iraqi christians, is thrown out, thousands are killed, just so that an Islamic republic with Sharia law can be voted in.

Maybe that was the plan in the first place. Maybe this is what Saudi Arabia, and Prince Bandar wanted in the first place.

You can't have democracy in an Islamic state, unless that country has first been de-Islamicised. Why doesn't everybody understand that?

And how long will it be before dissidents from Islam, start being tortured and killed in this new Islamic democracy? How long will it be before this new Islamic democracy declares jihad on America.

You all prefer to think that Bush is naive in all of this. Well I don't. This has been the plan from the beginning.

Seams yesterday a Ga. Cleric said that he was pissed at the military going in to the mosques? and today a small plane tries to take out the MLKs place and fails ??
http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=31089

Radical cleric Abu Hamza charged with 16 offences in Britain
AFP: 10/19/2004
LONDON (AFP) - Radical Islamic cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri was charged by a British court with 16 offences including incitement to murder Jews, scuppering a request from the United States for him to face trial there on terrorism-related allegations.
"Extradition proceedings will be adjourned until the British case is dealt with, whether the charges are dropped or a trial takes place," a spokesman for Britain's Crown Prosecution Service told AFP.
Hamza, 47, an Egyptian-born British national, was charged at high-security Belmarsh Magistrates Court in southeast London with 10 counts of "soliciting murder".
This little-used charge, covered by an 1861 criminal law, relates to inciting others to murder unspecified people.
In Hamza's case it relates to alleged incitement by the cleric at public meetings to kill non-Muslims, specifically Jews, according to several of the charges.
He was also charged with four counts of using threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour with intent to stir up racial hatred; one count of possessing threatening, abusive or insulting sound recordings; and one count of possessing a terrorist document.
The British charges means the one-eyed, hook-handed cleric will not be sent in the foreseeable future to the United States, where judicial authorities want to try him on 11 terrorism-related charges.
Hamza was first detained in May following the US request and was then formally arrested under British laws in August. According to newspaper reports, the US authorities have been pushing hard for Hamza to be extradited rather than face a British trial.
Hamza gained public attention for his speeches at a mosque in Finsbury Park, north London.
After being banned from giving sermons there, he took his preaching out to the street in front of the mosque, before his arrest at the request of the US authorities.
His extradition to the United States would have been potentially difficult in any case, since he could potentially have been executed if convicted of the US charges.
Britain has a long-established policy of refusing to extradite its nationals if there is a chance they might face the death penalty.

People I have been talking to see the threat and are not falling for the spin?

Kind of look at the letters from the USA to the Gardian? We know that Ruters gets their money from the Arabs??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
the Z man is in trouble and has called for more to come to help him fight and they will die too!!

Is it surprising, given that the US has had no problem accepting Saudi Arabia?

Obviously they still imagine that it'll be ok, as long as the mob is kept in submission by the fundamentalists and the oil is flowing. They still think it's just the women and the occasional dissidents over there that will be sold out and sacrificed. Shouldn't it be clear by now that supporting Islamic fundamentalist regimes also means sacrificing the West itself?

To all posters above....

If you're trying to start a democracy in a place where the majority of the people don't want a democracy....it'll just be voted down in the first election. The only way to pull out the problem by its roots is to defeat fundamentalism by introducing the intellectual pleasures and creature comforts found in secularism. This can't be done via democracy. It is not a good time for democracy in Iraq. We need an "American oriented" dictatorship, benevolent to the nonviolent element of the Iraqi population, and forced schooling in "NEUTRAL" subjects like math, science, and haute cuisine to create a generation of people who want to enjoy being human. I'm not some starry-eyed polly-anna....but moving in this direction should produce some results....it'd be a start.

Sorry about the self-centered term "American-oriented" to my Canadian and European friends. Please forgive it.

Catherine,

I too have heard President Bush say something different.

The AP, (Associated Press), has a history concerning its' lack of credibility.

Anyone remember just recently the fact that the AP let a story out on the wires which reviewed one of the debates favorably for John Kerry?

Problem was, the actual debate hadn't taken place yet and wouldn't for several hours.

>Bush is making a big mistake. Makes one wonder how
>many magnitudes worse a kerry presidency would be
>for the world.

Quite frankly Gary, I'm amazed at the number of mistakes Bush can make and his supporters still just don't seem to mind enough to fire him over it. I just wonder how many magnitudes worse the situation has to get before the diehards decide it is time to change management.

What the president needs to tell the world is that if Iraq does elect a Sharia state, that they are in effect voting out democracy in their country and they would be fools to do so.

We have to face the facts that:

1. Invading Iraq has turned out to be a mistake in the War on Terror. We're breeding terrorists now and we are hardly "containing them" over there.

2. The Middle East just simply isn't fit for democracy. It's peoples do not understand or desire it. They are enslaved to the bankrupt ideology of Islam.

3. Until major reform occurs within Islam itself the true root of Islamic terrorism cannot be killed and therefore the War on Terror will never be won.

4. No matter who the population elects the president will be determined by the courts again this year. Claims of voter fraud coming from both sides will throw this election into the courts or worse yet ... into the streets.

5. We are in a world of hurt and unless we stop fighting amongst ourselves and start fighting Islamic terror we're going to regret it. Our political or personality cult affiliations won't matter a hill of beans.

f.g.

Why do you people always worry about things that haven't happened yet? Give it a chance!
It's deeds, not words that make the man, or country.

And Bush is president only until Kerry steals it from him!

Posted by: f.g. at October 19, 2004 01:49 PM

You sound like the same nay sayers of WW2 on Japan and Germany?

Some things are worth fighting for this is what Bush is dong and it may work or not but what is the choice in not trying?

More 9/11 or worse today a truck went missing in Russia full of ratioative mat. does that mean we can not fight this enemy? I say not the Iraqi People want Freedom and you are not seeing the whole chess board because it is so huge? But their are people looking at the pieces are they perfect no but their judgement I pick over yours!! We may have to use some MOABs but we are trying to save the People and give them a chance at Freedom we give them Freedom I hope so but it is up to them Freedom means Life the other is Death Look at all the Mass Graves this is proof of what they had yes death?

You always forget how many Iraqi People are Fighting against this Evil?

As the USA was underestamated in WW2 I hope the Lust for Freedom in Iraq is too?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/custom/attack/bal-te.court29jun29,0,3008051.story?coll=bal-attack-headlines
Bush rebuffed on detention of terror suspects
Court rules U.S. citizens, foreign nationals can challenge imprisonment; Limit to wartime powers
BY GAIL GIBSON
SUN NATIONAL STAFF
ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED JUNE 29, 2004
The Supreme Court delivered a strong check to the president's wartime powers yesterday, ruling in two closely watched cases that U.S. citizens and foreign nationals imprisoned as suspected terrorists can challenge their detention in American courts.

"We have long since made clear that a state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation's citizens," Justice Sandra Day O'Connor wrote for the majority opinion in one case. The Constitution, she said, "most assuredly envisions a role for all three branches when individual liberties are at stake."

Taken together, the rulings upended a central, and controversial, element of the Bush administration's war on terror - the notion that suspected terrorists can be held indefinitely for interrogation purposes without access to the courts. Both decisions were by a 6-3 vote, but the lineup of the justices varied.

About 600 men detained without recourse for the past two years at the military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, now could have a day in court. U.S. citizens held as "enemy combatants" also are entitled to legal review, the justices ruled in the case of a Louisiana-born man captured in Afghanistan in late 2001 and held without charges or trial at the Navy brig in Charleston, S.C.

In a third, related case involving American citizen Jose Padilla, the court in a 5-4 decision sidestepped questions about his detention by determining his case was brought in the wrong jurisdiction. Justice John Paul Stevens, in a dissent, chastised the majority for relying on that technicality to avoid more important issues.

"At stake in this case is nothing less than the essence of a free society," Stevens wrote. "For if this nation is to remain true to the ideals symbolized by its flag, it must not wield the tools of tyrants even to resist an assault by the forces of tyranny."

In one significant finding for the administration, the justices ruled that Congress had given President Bush the power to seize and detain U.S. citizens as "enemy combatants." But the court, in careful and narrowly written decisions, showed deep concern about unchecked executive-branch power.

"Striking the proper constitutional balance here is of great importance to the nation during this period of ongoing combat," O'Connor wrote in the enemy combatant case of Yaser Esam Hamdi. "But it is equally vital that our calculus not give short shrift to the values that this country holds dear or to the privilege that is American citizenship."

The cases raised the most fundamental constitutional questions to emerge from the government's counter-terrorism campaign, with the justices asked to weigh the balance between individual freedoms and national security.

"I think that basically it was a very bad day for the Bush administration, but not a completely bad day," said University of Maryland law professor Michael Greenberger, a former Justice Department official. "The court today made it emphatically clear that they do have a role to play."

A broad coalition of civil libertarians and former federal prosecutors and judges had challenged the administration's detention policies as an unwarranted extension of executive power. But the government's lawyers defended the methods as legally sound and badly needed in the often murky battle against terrorism.

In response to the rulings, White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said President Bush was committed to fashioning a review process for terror detainees that would address the issues raised by the court decisions. "The president's most solemn obligation is to protect the American people," she said.

At the Justice Department, spokesman Mark Corallo praised the court's decision on enemy combatant status, saying that "without the ability to detain these dangerous individuals, the American people and our soldiers in combat would face even greater danger from our terrorist enemies."

Corallo said the department was reviewing the rulings and noted that the court acknowledged access to the courts in some terror cases may require some modifications, such as the admission of hearsay evidence.

Groups that had challenged the administration claimed an important win.

Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which brought the Guantanamo case, said the rulings affirmed "the right of every person, citizen or non-citizen, detained by the United States to test the legality of his or her detention in a U.S. court."

The legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union, Steven R. Shapiro, said that the "historic rulings are a strong repudiation of the administration's argument that its actions in the war on terrorism are beyond the rule of law and unreviewable by American courts."

Left unclear was what would come next, particularly in the case of Guantanamo Bay detainees.

About 600 men are imprisoned at the facility in Cuba, and yesterday's ruling raised the prospect of hundreds of individual detention challenges and lawsuits that could land in any of the nation's 94 federal court districts - a point raised by Justice Antonin Scalia in a sharp dissent from the majority decision in that case.

"The commander in chief and his subordinates had every reason to expect that the internment of combatants at Guantanamo Bay would not have the consequence of bringing the cumbersome machinery of our domestic courts into military affairs," Scalia wrote in a dissent that was joined by Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justice Clarence Thomas.

In the Hamdi case, only Justice Thomas disagreed with the majority's opinion that Hamdi - accused of serving as a foot soldier for the Taliban and arrested in Afghanistan in late 2001 - could not be held without access to the courts.

But the court was far from one voice. Rehnquist joined O'Connor in the majority opinion, along with Justices Anthony M. Kennedy and Stephen G. Breyer. Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David H. Souter agreed with the majority opinion but made clear in a separate opinion that they would have gone further and called Hamdi's detention unauthorized.

Justices Stevens - who wrote the majority opinion in the Guantanamo case - and Scalia, said in a dissenting opinion that Hamdi and other citizens accused of aiding the enemy should be tried as criminal defendants. They pointed to the case of the so-called American Taliban, John Walker Lindh, who pleaded guilty in U.S. federal court.

What justices said

Excerpts from the Supreme Court's rulings in cases challenging the detention of terror suspects:

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, writing for the majority in Hamdi vs. Rumsfeld.

-- "As critical as the government's interest may be in detaining those who actually pose an immediate threat to the national security of the United States during ongoing international conflict, history and common sense teach us that an unchecked system of detention carries the potential to become a means for oppression and abuse of others who do not present that sort of threat."

-- "Striking the proper constitutional balance here is of great importance to the nation during this period of ongoing combat. But it is equally vital that our calculus not give short shrift to the values that this country holds dear or to the privilege that is American citizenship."

-- "We have long since made clear that a state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation's citizens."

Justice Clarence Thomas, dissenting in the Hamdi case.

-- "This detention falls squarely within the federal government's war powers, and we lack the expertise and capacity to second-guess that decision."

Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority in Rasul vs. Bush, ruling that foreigners held at the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, can challenge their detention, and bring lawsuits, in U.S. courts:

-- "Aliens held at the base, no less than American citizens, are entitled to invoke the federal courts' authority."

-- "Whether and what further proceedings may become necessary after respondents make their response to the merits of petitioners' claims are matters that we need not address now. What is presently at stake is only whether the federal courts have jurisdiction to determine the legality of the executive's potentially indefinite detention of individuals who claim to be wholly innocent of wrongdoing."

Justice Antonin Scalia, dissenting in Rasul.

-- "Today, the Court springs a trap on the Executive, subjecting Guantanamo Bay to the oversight of the federal courts even though it has never before been thought to be within their jurisdiction. ... "

-- "For this court to create such a monstrous scheme in time of war ... is judicial adventurism of the worst sort."

SO YOU SEE IT DOES MATTER WHO WE ELECT BECAUSE THE SENATE PUTS THESE JUDGES IN OFFICE UNTILL DEATH AND IF THEY LOVE EUROPE MORE THAN THE USA AND HER HISTORY WE WILL BE UNABLE TO DEFEND OUR SELFS AND END IN CIVL WAR?

IF IRAQ GOES THROUGH A CIVIL WAR THIS IS OKAY WE DID AFTER ALL!!

FG
YOU WANT PERFECT WITH NO RISK WELL THAT IS NOT REAL LIFE!!!

Part Of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

>And Bush is president only until Kerry steals it from him!

Heh-he, I get it. You're a funny guy.

No really, we don't have to worry about the outcome of the Iraqi elections because it doesn't look like there will be any anytime soon. It will be a miracle if conditions exist in Janurary that would allow a fair election. Parting the red sea will look like a bad card trick in comparison and we might as well promote Bush right on into the godhead.

f.g.

f.g.

Mark Twain said a lot of things wittier and funnier. But he never said anything more valuable than this: A man who can read - but does not, has no advantage over a man who cannot read.
He'd probably also agree that a nation free to tell itself the truth -but does not, has no advantage over a dictatorship. Media coverage of Iraq these days makes me fear we have become that nation. Some comparisons, please.
As North Korean troops and tanks plunged headlong into South Korea in June, 1950 the world communist press from East Berlin to Pyongyang reported that South Korean puppets of the warmongering American imperialists had invaded the peace-loving Peoples Republic of North Korea. And how did they explain how those peace-loving victims of unprovoked capitalist aggression managed to take the South Korean capital of Seoul a few hours later? Communist propaganda had no problem with that. The rest of the statement told us, "Shortly after the South Korean invasion of North Korea the scene of action was soon transferred southward"! (Exclamation point mine!)
In my 1956 visit to the Soviet Union I learned that the communist-ruled masses of the world sort of caught on over time that North Korea had actually started the war; but that was never clarified by the communist media. Being a dictatorship means you never have to say, Whoops; sorry, folks. It was actually North Korea that started the war. Slave media never have to say anything like, "Whoops; sorry. We meant to say world-wide terrorist activity has NOT decreased." It has SOARED!
An American held prisoner by the Germans after D-Day told of a daily newsletter the Germans handed out to American and British prisoners. It was in English with up-to-date news of the war. Every day the Germans told their prisoners news of ever greater German victories day by day. What the prisoners found so funny was that each German victory always occurred EAST of the previous victory; a little closer to Berlin!
If you're a Nazi propagandist you never have to apologize on the op-ed page for discrepancies committed on page 1.
We'll skip the hilarity of Bagdad Bob and conclude this riff with Hitler's coverage of the Joe Louis/Max Schmeling heavyweight fight of early 1939 - just before war broke out. Hitler urged the entire German nation to stay up until three o clock in the morning to hear the annihilation of the untermentsch black boxer Joe Louis by the invincible Aryan Max Schmeling on live radio.
Louis, who had lost to Schmeling in the mid-1930s, knocked Schmeling out in round one. Pity the poor German ringside announcer. The roar of the American crowd in Yankee Stadium from the get-go almost made any commentary in any language unnecessary. It was as one-sided as the Nazi invasion of Denmark, but it still took almost a whole round and the German announcer had to say SOMETHING. What he said as Louis was annihilating Schmeling was something like, Our Nordic champion Max Schmeling has not yet unleashed the full fury of his attack against his American opponent.
And then there was a POW and a KERPLUNK clearly audible from the Schwartzwald to Polish border. Schmeling was down and out. And what did the German population who'd stayed awake until three a. m. hear? (I've verified with three people who were in Nazi Germany and listening.) The audio from New York was abruptly cut. You then heard ill-defined confusion; people barking at others indistinctly. Next came Nazi patriotic march music, followed by a Strauss waltz. Until regime change in 1945 the German people were never told the result of the fight.
The foregoing were all instances of societies that could NOT tell the truth. We take you now to America, a society that CAN tell the truth, but perversely chooses not to!
The rise of conservative voices from Sean Hannity to Fox News to NewsMax to the Washington Times and all the welcome etceteras has done much to increase the alternative viewpoint's reach across America. No champagne yet, please! That voice is still seriously outgunned by the three major networks and CNN, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, Time, Newsweek - there are more but why make this screed unnecessarily long?
The American media, for example, is free to differentiate between the torture of Abu Ghraib Prison and the beheading of innocent hostages. The fact that they shamelessly tilt their coverage toward the horrors of Abu Ghraib while underplaying the beheadings, accompanied by internet gloating, sends a message something akin to: Well, if you're going to force an Islamic prisoner to put women's panties on his head you may as well go ahead and cut it off. It really amounts to just about the same thing!
The same media that can shrink beheadings so they can get hidden underneath prison mistreatment can adroitly, when it suits its agenda, likewise turn a thunderclap into a butterfly's belch. Are you aware Russian President Vladimir Putin announced he had repeatedly warned President Bush that Russian intelligence had uncovered Saddam Hussein's plans to commit acts of terror inside the United States? If not, you're excused. That story, possibly tremendously helpful to President Bush, was consigned to page 35 underneath the shipping notices. They also changed the wording to read that those intended acts of terrorism were NOT inside America but rather against American interests.
Inside America suggests buildings tumbling and shopping malls blowing up. Against American interests suggests an attack on an American tanker in Oman.
That's not the worst. On Thursday, June 24, the Iraqi insurgents scored over a hundred innocent Iraqis killed in five locations across the Sunni Triangle. The dominant media could scarcely conceal their jubilation as they compared that day's terrorism to the Tet Offensive of the Viet Cong in 1968. The Tet Offensive, a catastrophic military defeat for the communists but a communist propaganda victory in the American media, turned America against further attempts to save South Vietnam from communist aggression.
But hold on! The next day, Friday, June 25, 2004, brought a mercifully lower casualty rate across Iraq. Unlike the Tet Offensive, it did not escalate. It diminished. Saturday brought another diminution. By Sunday we were back to single-digit casualties.
Does anybody remember the phrase, "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy"?
Well, this was no Tet Offensive.
But, did any administration-opposing media come out in ink or air and say anything like, "Apparently the much-feared all-out onslaught against Iraqi civilians and members of the take-over government has lost, rather than gained, steam over the past few days"?
Let Tony Soprano answer. Forgeddaboutit!
Monday, June 28, dawned in American media with a quick-opening play handing sovereignty over to the Iraqis two full days earlier than planned. This was the period when the Michael Moore wing of American journalism had been warning of all-out mayhem by an expanded insurgency that had somehow managed to develop sophisticated and effective command and control. I channel-surfed for four hours and failed to hear a single report of car-bombings, suicide attacks, or anything else untoward happening inside Iraq.
Was there violence the media overlooked? That's media malpractice - ignoring a big story. Was there no significant violence at all to report? Then they'd be ignoring an even BIGGER story.
Have you heard anything like the following lately? "Despite awful setbacks for Bush in April, May, and June, Kerry fails to take the lead in the polls." True, but taboo!
A dermatologist could still see the pinkness on my thigh resulting from slapping said thigh while howling rather raucously watching a half-hour panel show on the Bush-Kerry race. For exactly 29 and a half minutes they wrapped cold wet blankets, as many as time allowed, around President Bush and his administration. The panel of handsome, articulate media men and women emphasized that the American casualties escalating in Iraq were hurting Bush, the escalating Iraqi casualties were hurting Bush, the Richard Clark book was hurting Bush, the 9/11 Commission's report was hurting Bush, and all the perfumes of Araby would not wash the Abu Ghraib prison scandal off of President Bush.
John Kerry, meanwhile, was raising money like mad, racking up labor solidly behind him, even getting auto genius Lee Iacocca behind him, even though that automobile wizard had campaigned for George Bush in 2000.
And at the tail end of the show the moderator asked, And what does the lastest poll show?
The latest poll showed President George Bush ahead!
And that reincarnates the tired old joke about the wizened old man, truly ancient-looking, emerging from the clubhouse to approach the first tee. As he was limping along a throng of media folk converged around him and cornered him before he could tee off.
"Excuse me, sir," asked one newsman. "Could you please tell us your secret?"
"Well," the wizened old-looking man began, "I never drink less than four bottles of liquor a day, usually quarts, of scotch, bourbon, or rye. I never smoke less than a carton and a half of cigarettes a day. I won't tell you where my cigars come from but I enjoy at least a dozen a day. My favorite foods are butter, pie with ice cream, and hot fudge sundaes. As for women, I didn t come here to brag, but two or three sexual encounters each day are kind of routine for me.
As the press folks were dutifully taking their notes, one of them cried out, "Excuse me, sir. And how old did you say you were?" Anti-American Media are Perverse Propagandists
Barry Farber
Monday, June 28, 2004
News Max.com

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat Amen

Ptior to World War II, we were to "Isolationist", now we are to "Expansionist", i.e., an empire.

America, the nation that placed a Man ON THE MOON WILL SOON BE THIRD WORLD.

Ay, there's the rub...a great NATION falling because of some scheme designed to prove the worth of all humanity, when that humanity holds America as the standard.

I think that the march of progress is halted at the temple of national multiculturism.

To me the question is not which "Civilisation" is better, but which civilisation offers the best hope for mankind.

Islamic civisilation is not the reason for a man on the moon or the internet which is used to show beheading videos.

Islamic civisilation is the best hope for the future of dhimmi Europe. Which has finally capitulated to mass progaganda of islamic theology.

I see a new dark ages approaching as Europe becomes Islamic.

>You sound like the same nay sayers of WW2 on Japan and Germany?
That makes no sense at all Catherine.
Gee Catherine, wouldn't it not have been nice if we would have stayed on Al Queda instead of chasing ghost WMDs in a third rate country that did not pose an immediate threat to us? Wouldn't it have been nice if we would have spend the $, time, and lives fighting the people who attacked us rather than Iraq who did not?
Now it's all about giving Iraqis freedom is it? That isn't what we signed up for. No way in hell would this country go to war to free the Iraqi people. No, we went to war over WMDs that didn't exist not whatever the reason of the day we're being told over here. Come on Catherine get real. Iraq is a screwup that we are going to be dealing with from now on. It was a strategic error made by this administration. A terrible strategic error that can't be changed by beating the patriotic drum or "believing in the president", or ignoring it. For that error and their persistance that it was correct and that they would do it all the same again (come on, what kind of fool would do it all the same way again?) they need to be fired.

If the people of Iraq had wanted freedom they would have taken it already. If the people of Iraq wanted democracy there would have been a revolution instead of an invasion.

Quite frankly I don't give a damn about Iraq or the Iraqis. I am not willing to spend a single American life or $ in their behalf. They simply do not deserve it. Like I said, if they wanted freedom they would have taken it long ago. Besides, we need all of resources to fight the real enemy, not one we manufactured.

And Catherine, I am a patriot, an independant, and somewhat of an isolationist. I love my country, its culture, and her people and I flatly refuse to blindly go along with any political party's agenda for any reason whatsoever. I am a free-thinker and a free human being. I can see for myself what the situation in Iraq is and I can tell it isn't what the administration is claiming it to be.

Canada's Liberals Lose Control of Parliament
NewsMax.com Wires
Tuesday, June 29, 2004
OTTAWA – Voters stripped the long-dominant Liberal Party of its outright control of Parliament, but left it enough seats to take charge of Canada's first minority government in 25 years.

"It's unfamiliar terrain," said Prime Minister Paul Martin, relieved at avoiding even heavier losses in Monday's election at the hands of Quebec separatists and a newly unified Conservative Party. Tarnished by financial scandal, the Liberals lost more than 30 seats to end an 11-year monopoly on power. In nearly complete returns, they had 135 of the 308 seats in the House of Commons, compared to 99 for the Conservatives, 54 for the separatist Bloc Quebecois and 19 for the left-wing New Democratic Party.

WHO SAYS WE ARE NOT WINNING??

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:26 p.m. EDT
Brokaw Raps Iraqi PM for Linking Saddam to 9/11
NBC "Nightly News" anchorman Tom Brokaw was so dismayed Tuesday night when Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi linked Saddam Hussein to the 9/11 attacks that he actually reprimanded him during his interview.

When Brokaw asked the new Iraqi leader if he could "understand why many Americans feel that so many young men and women have died here for purposes other than protecting the United States?" Dr. Allawi responded: "We know that this is an extension to what has happened in New York. And the war [has] been taken out to Iraq by the same terrorists. Saddam was a potential friend and partner and natural ally of terrorism."
Plainly miffed that Dr. Allawi hadn't accepted the U.S. media's attempt to cover-up links between Saddam, al Qaida and 9/11, Brokaw reprimanded him as cameras rolled:
"Prime minister, I’m surprised that you would make the connection between 9/11 and the war in Iraq. The 9/11 commission in America says there is no evidence of a collaborative relationship between Saddam Hussein and those terrorists of al-Qaida."
But Dr. Allawi refused to back down, telling the top TV anchor:
"No. I believe very strongly that Saddam had relations with al-Qaida. And these relations started in Sudan. We know Saddam had relationships with a lot of terrorists and international terrorism. Now, whether he is directly connected to the September atrocities or not, I can’t vouch for this. But definitely I know he has connections with extremism and terrorists."
In December Dr. Allawi commented on a recently discovered Iraqi intelligence document placing lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Baghdad two months before the attacks.
"We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda," he told the London Telegraph. "But this is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."
News Max.com

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0629/p02s01-usgn.html
Tired of premium? These cars tank up on vegetable oil
'Biodiesel' costs less than regular unleaded - but still more than regular diesel - prompting fresh looks.
By Elizabeth Armstrong | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
BOSTON – When Josh Tickell drives his 1971 Datsun 240Z, powered by a straight six-diesel engine, he gets 44 miles to the gallon. He also gets disbelieving stares from everyone else on the road. The bright-red hot rod, with flames shooting out of a dandelion-rimmed globe on the hood, proclaims in fiery yellow letters: "Powered by vegetable oil."
Electric and hybrid cars may be getting more attention from the car-buying public, but in the past year the number of biodiesel fueling stations jumped nearly 50 percent. Even Click and Clack, NPR's wise-cracking car guys, dedicate a page on their website to the fuel's benefits.

THIS IS WHY THE DEMOCRATS HAVE HELD UP PRESIDENT BUSH ENGERY PLAN BECAUSE HE USES THIS INSTEAD OF ARAB OIL??

WHY DO THE OTHER ARAB STATES NOT WANT IRAQ TO BE FREE COULD IT BE THE FARM LAND THEY WILL HAVE THE POWER IN THE DESSERT LAND??

ONCE THE DEMOCRATS HOLD BACK THE USA??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS

KERRY'S LAST ? / WAS ABOUT HIS WIFE AND WHAT WAS HIS ANSWER YEA I MARRIED UP AND THEN WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT HIS MOTHER? BOY THAT SUCKS FOR THE WIFE? KERRY JUST CALLED HIS WIFE WEAK??

Maybe all the posters here think in terms of a generation or two. Islam thinks in terms of a future yet to be won by appeal to pity and civisalation. They are aware that America is only a couple of hundred of years old.

They will conquer us and convert our promising future just like they have the rest of the globe.

Can it be that religion trumps achievement despite te fact that Jesus is the antitthesis of Mohamad?

FG
YOUR WMDs

and remember we have not even looked?

Radioactive Missiles Found In Iraq
Charles R. Smith
Tuesday, Mar. 9, 2004
U.S. Army troops operating at a former Iraqi air base recently made a startling discovery: Russian made missiles marked with radioactive warning signs.
Army bomb disposal troops confirmed using Geiger counters that the missiles are indeed radioactive.
The discovery is not, however, considered the long sought after "smoking gun" of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.
The missiles appear to be part of a cache of weapons supplied to Iraq before the 1991 Gulf war.
The Russian made R-60, NATO code name AA-8 Aphid, air-to-air missiles are part of a huge stockpile of former Iraqi Air Force munitions uncovered in over a dozen concrete bunkers.
The Russian made missiles are over 6 feet long and each carries 1.6 kilograms or about 3.5 pounds of radioactive uranium wrapped around a high explosive warhead.
The uranium is not pure enough nor in large enough quantity to be a nuclear warhead but it is dangerous enough, as you can see from the label:
U.S. bomb experts noted the R-60 warheads are similar in design and content to a so-called "dirty bomb" that could contaminate a small area with radioactive materials.
DIFFICULT DISPOSAL
The discovery of the uranium laced R-60 missiles illustrates the difficulty that coalition troops have in trying to dispose of the billons of dollars of Iraqi weapons left behind after the second Gulf war.
The R-60 missiles cannot simply be destroyed since the uranium-laced warheads could pose a health hazard to coalition troops and local Iraqi civilians.
quarantined them at a single, heavily guarded, location.
The R-60 has a very small 6-kilogram (13.2 pound) explosive warhead. The R-60 missiles supplied to Iraq by Russia contained uranium in their warheads to assist the small explosive charge in destroying Army bomb disposal experts have gathered up all the R-60 missiles found at the site and targeted aircraft.
Russian weapons designers added the uranium belt to the missile in order to knock-out western aircraft using the dense metal as a way to punch through heavily armored sections of U.S. made jets.
U.S. troops also found a small number of advanced R-60M warheads at the site. The R-60M missiles are equipped with an advanced laser destruct system that detonates the warhead when it passes close to a target aircraft.
MORE RUSSIAN MISSILES
In addition, U.S. troops uncovered several large air-to-surface Kh-28 missiles, NATO code named AS-9 Kyle.
The Kh-28 is a Russian-made, anti-radar, air-to-surface missile with a top speed of over 2,000 miles an hour.
The missile is approximately 19.5 feet long, 17 inches in diameter, has a wingspan of 5.5 feet and weighs over 1,500 pounds. It carries a conventional 340-pound high-explosive warhead and has a range of 54 miles.
U.S weapons experts are also handling the Kh-28 missiles carefully but not because of its electronic radar-seeking warhead.
The Kh-28 is powered by a liquid-propellant propulsion system that consists of a fuel tank and an oxidizer tank. The oxidizer is a dangerous chemical known as "red fuming nitric acid" or IRFNA. Each missile carries approximately 20 gallons of IRFNA.
The oxidizer is considered to be highly dangerous and a possible carcinogen. U.S. Air Force disposal squads dismantled a Kh-28 found after the 1991 Gulf war using full Hazmat suits and special anti-chemical gear.
Again, U.S. forces are taking great care in the disposal of the missiles for fear of exposing coalition troops and local civilians to hazardous chemicals such as the oxidizer found in the Kh-28 missiles.

YES THESE WERE FOUND AND NOT BROUGHT INTO THE USA??

Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Confessions of Al-Qaida Suspects Who Allegedly Planned Attacks Aired
NewsMax Wires
Tuesday, Apr. 27, 2004
AMMAN, Jordan - Al-Qaida plotted bomb and poison gas attacks against the U.S. Embassy and other targets in Jordan, suspects confessed in a videotape that aired Monday on Jordanian state television. A commentator said the plotters hoped to kill 80,000 people.
One of the alleged conspirators, Azmi al-Jayousi, said he was acting on the orders of Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian wanted by the United States for allegedly organizing terrorists to fight U.S. troops in Iraq on behalf of al-Qaida. U.S. officials have offered a $10 million reward for his capture.
Al-Jayousi, identified as the head of a Jordanian terror cell, said he met al-Zarqawi in neighboring Iraq to plan the attacks.
The 20-minute taped program contained what were described as confessions by the suspects, who were arrested a month ago. Officials said four terror suspects believed linked to the conspiracy died in a shootout with police in Amman last week.

NOW THIS REPORT SAID THE STUFF CAME FROM IRAQ??

Saturday, 20 November, 1999, 01:40 GMT BBC
Violence greets Clinton visit

Thousands of left-wing protesters chanting anti-American slogans have clashed with police and set dozens of shops ablaze at the start of a delayed state visit by US President Bill Clinton to Athens.

Riot police used teargas against thousands of left-wing protesters who had gathered in the central Syndagma Square outside the parliament in Athens, after a small group threatened to storm the building.

As the crowd fled through surrounding streets, fires were started in rubbish bins and some shop windows smashed.

He also reminded journalists that he had been trying to generate a peace initiative between Greece and Turkey, over the divided island of Cyprus.

"The Greek people and the government should be quite At least three people were reported to have blood on their heads.

The trouble, which the authorities blamed on anarchists, broke out almost exactly as Mr Clinton touched down at Athens airport.

His visit was originally scheduled for last weekend, but was delayed and shortened from three days to one following a series of anti-American protests.

Greek dislike of the US is based partly on Washington's perceived backing of Greece's traditional enemy Turkey. It was fuelled more recently by Nato's offensive against Yugoslavia.

The Greek Public Order Ministry has staged an unprecedented security operation to protect Mr Clinton, deploying some 7,000 police, backed by 400 FBI agents, across the city.

It has closed 12 miles of central Athens' usually-congested streets for the entire day, with bus routes altered for two days.

It banned protesters from rallying near the airport, anywhere along the seaside boulevard linking the airport to central Athens, and a triangular area housing the US embassy and other official buildings.

The security arrangements seemed to anger protesters further.

The Greek Communist Party and two other small left-wing opposition parties urged demonstrators to test police barriers and march to the US Embassy.

Rallies were also planned in other Greek cities, and more than 2,000 protesters burned American flags outside the US Consulate on the northern port of Thessaloniki.

Clinton 'a friend'

Speaking as he disembarked form Air Force One, Mr Clinton said he came to Greece as a "friend" of the country.

"I have come here as a 'philhellene' - a friend of Greece - and I look forward to experiencing that wonderful quality of Greek hospitality known to all the world," he said.

"We look to ancient Greece for inspiration, but we look to modern Greece for leadership and partnership."

Earlier, Mr Clinton had said people should be able to show their feelings.

"Greece is the world's oldest democracy. If people want to protest, they ought to have a chance to do it," he said at a press conference in Turkey.

encouraged by this new Cyprus initiative, and by the fact that I found a receptive ear [in Turkey] on three separate occasions when I spoke ... about the necessity of the Turkish people and the Greeks being reconciled," he said.

Because of his new programme, President Clinton's experience of Athens will largely be confined to a high-rise hotel near the airport.

He, his wife Hillary and daughter Chelsea were due to meet Greek leaders behind a cordon of riot police, before travelling on to Florence.

JUST THOUGHT I'D PUT TIS IN TO REMIND PEOPLE OF THE TRUTH ??

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/002427.php
July 07, 2004
A major achievement: US removes 1.7 metric tons of radioactive material from Iraq
Here are 1.7 metric tons of radioactive material that won't find their way into dirty bombs detonated in New York City. From the BBC, with thanks to Richard:
Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed.
The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department's secret laboratories.
It was flown out of the country aboard a military plane in a joint operation with the Department of Defense, and is being stored temporarily at a Department of Energy facility.

NOW HOW CAN THIS BE??AND WHY IS THE UN WORRIED BECAUSE SOME THINGS ARE MISSING?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3872201.stm
BY JAMES TARANTO
Tuesday, May 18, 2004 4:39 p.m. EDT
Spinning the Sarin
Tests confirm that artillery shell that blew up in Iraq did indeed contain sarin--between three quarts' and a gallon's worth, Fox News reports. The New York Times buries the story on page 11 (something about weddings in Massachusetts led the front page, bizarrely enough), and it's shot through with pro-Saddam spin:
The discovery of the sarin-filled shell appears to offer some of the most substantial evidence to date that Mr. Hussein did not destroy all of the banned chemical agent, as he claimed before the war last year. It provides some solace, and possibly fresh leads, to the American teams that have been conducting an otherwise fruitless search for the weapons for more than a year.
The Bush administration's belief that Mr. Hussein continued to maintain stocks of such banned weapons was the primary justification put forward for invading Iraq in March 2003. American inspectors scouring the country since April 2003 have so far found little evidence that Mr. Hussein maintained such weapons or a program to produce them.

YES LET US TAKE AWAY THE CHILDS GUN BEFORE IT IS SMOKING!!

Sarin Nerve Agent Bomb Explodes in Iraq

Monday May 17, 2004 4:01 PM
By CHRIS TORCHIA
Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. Two people were treated for ``minor exposure,'' but no serious injuries were reported.
``The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found,'' said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq. ``The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.
``A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable. This produced a very small dispersal of agent,'' he said.
The Iraqi Survey Group is a U.S. organization whose task was to search for weapons of mass destruction after the ouster of Saddam Hussein in last year's invasion.
``The round was an old binary-type requiring the mixing of two chemical components in separate sections of the cell before the deadly agent is produced,'' Kimmitt said. ``The cell is designed to work after being fired from an artillery piece.''
He said the dispersal of the nerve agent from a device such as the homemade bomb is ``limited.''
``The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War,'' Kimmitt said. ``Two explosive ordinance team members were treated for minor exposure to nerve agent as a result of the partial detonation of the round.''
In 1995, Japan's Aum Shinrikyo cult unleashed sarin gas in Tokyo's subways, killing 12 people and sickening thousands. In February of this year, Japanese courts convicted the cult's former leader, Shoko Asahara, and sentence him to be executed.
Developed in the mid-1930s by Nazi scientists, a single drop of sarin can cause quick, agonizing choking death. There are no known instances of the Nazis actually using the gas.
Nerve gases work by inhibiting key enzymes in the nervous system, blocking their transmission. Small exposures can be treated with antidotes, if administered quickly.
Antidotes to nerve gases similar to sarin are so effective that top poison gas researchers predict they eventually will cease to be a war threat.

NOW YOU TELL THOSE WHO HAD THIS WMD BLOW UP THAT IT WAS NOTHING?

WHEN I LOAD MY GUN I DON'T JUST PUT IN ONE BULLET DO YOU?

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001001.html

IRAQI URANIUM NOW IN U.S. LABS
The good news: U.S. troops and scientists have taken a heap of radioactive material out of insecure locations in Iraq. The bad news: they may have brought the stuff to insecure locations here in America.
"In a secret operation, the United States last month removed from Iraq nearly two tons of uranium and hundreds of highly radioactive items that could have been used in a so-called dirty bomb," the AP reports.
"The nuclear material was secured from Iraq's former nuclear research facility and airlifted out of the country to an undisclosed Energy Department laboratory for further analysis, the department said in a statement."

I GUESS YOU MISSED THIS STORY PAYING SO MUCH ATT TO THE SCOTT PETERSON AND ALL??

Monday, May 17, 2004

News Coverage as a Weapon
Historian John Terraine notes that unit casualty rates during the Civil War were close to those experienced by the British Army on the Somme. The 1/Newfoundland Regiment lost 84 % of its men on that fatal July 1, 1916. But the 1st Texas Regiment lost 82.3% in Antietam and the 1st Minnesota lost 82% at Gettysburg. Nor were these exceptional. "In the course of the Civil War 115 regiments (63 Union and 52 Confederate) sustained losses of more than 50 percent in a single engagement". Losses during World War 2 were just as brutal. Although the average loss per individual mission was often under 5% for the pilots who flew in the British Bomber Command, the fact that they flew 30 missions per tour meant a crew had less than a 1 in 4 chance of completing it. Once you signed on, there was a 75% statistical chance you wouldn't survive. Nor were these estimates far from the truth. Almost sixty percent of Bomber Command, a total of 55,000 men, were killed. They had an easy time compared to German U-boat crewmen, who lost 630 men out of every thousand. Nations required a huge pool of manpower and high birthrates to sustain losses on this scale. Russia alone suffered twenty million deaths during World War 2. Even Yugoslavia, a country whose role in the conflict is hardly remembered as central, lost 1.6 million killed. Defeat in that conflict came to those whose armies were driven from the field, whose cities were reduced to rubble and whose manpower resources could no longer continue the struggle.
Viewed in this context, the American "defeat" in Iraq projected by the press must be understood as being something wholly different from anything that has gone before. The 800 odd US military deaths suffered since the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom a year ago are less than the number who died in the Slapton Sands D-Day training exercise in 1944. The campaign in Iraq has hardly scratched American strength, which has in fact grown more potent in operational terms over the intervening period. Nor has it materially affected the US manpower pool or slowed the American economy, which is actually growing several times faster than France, which is not militarily engaged. The defeat being advertised by the press is a wholly new phenomenon: one which leaves the vanquished army untouched and the victor devastated; the economy of the vanquished burgeoning and that of the victor in destitution; the territory of the loser unoccupied and that of the winner garrisoned. It is an inversion of all the traditional metrics of victory and defeat. That the assertion is not instantly ludicrous is an indication of the arrival of a new and potentially revolutionary form of political wafare.
It was during the Vietnam War that the Left first discovered the potential war-winning ability of media coverage. The concept itself is merely an extension of the blitzkrieg notion that the enemy command structure, not his troop masses, are the true center of gravity on the battlefield. During the campaign of 1940, Heinz Guderian's panzers bypassed many French formations, leaving them unfought, knowing that if their command structure were severed, the whole musclebound mass would fall to the ground headless. What the Left gradually discovered during the course of the Vietnam war was that Guderian had not been bold enough. Guderian still felt it necessary to win on the battlefield. He had not realized that it was possible to ignore the battlefield altogether because it was the enemy political structure, not his military capability, that was the true center of gravity of an entire campaign. It was General Giap during the Vietnam War who first planned a military operation entirely around its possible media effect. The Tet offensive was a last desperate attempt to gain the upper hand in a war he was losing.

YEA YOU fg ARE TRING TO LUL US BACK TO SLEEP BUT YOU SEE THE GAME IS A FOOT THE HUNT IS ON?
WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER SEPT.11,2001 TO HAPPEN IT IS LIKE BUYING NEW TIRES BEFORE THEY GO FLAT WE ARE BUYING LIFE INSURANCE AMERICAN LIFE INSURANCE AND THOSE WHO FIGHT WITH US???

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the Course to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

Maybe all the posters here think in terms of a generation or two. Islam thinks in terms of a future yet to be won by appeal to pity and civisalation. They are aware that America is only a couple of hundred of years old.

They will conquer us and convert our promising future just like they have the rest of the globe.

Can it be that religion trumps achievement despite te fact that Jesus is the antitthesis of Mohamad?

Posted by: Andrew at October 19, 2004 03:17 PM

learn the Marine Corps hym from the shores of Tripoli this means we have fought this fight and won we will win it again?

There will be peace many may die like in other wars but WE WILL WIN!!

It is a matter of the people understanding the fight and many of the Paul Revers of our time are wrong do not lose heart WE ARE WINNING!!

EVEN THE LIB'S WILL FIGHT BUT IN THE PAST THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THOSE WHO ARE COWARDS AND MAKE TROUBLE!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
IN THE GRAVE YARDS OF OUR WAR HEROS THERE ARE MANY CROSSES AND STAR OF DAVIDS I HAVE SEEN NO MULSUM MOONS!!

This e-mail was forwarded to me by one of our readers:

Subject: Write to your Senators NOW!!!!

I STRONGLY suggest we all write a letter to our
senators and Congressmen NOW.

I wrote this and sent it to John Warner, (R) VA:

Dear Honorable Warner:

It has come to my attention from military friends who
are stationed over in the Middle East that they are
being forced to observe Ramadan.

Ramadan, as you may know, is an Islamic observance.
Considering that our armed forces are mostly comprised
of Christians, this is a bad move.

Why?

The reasons why:

1. It tells the world that the USA is hopelessly
apologetic toward that "religion of peace" known as
Islam, which in fact is responsible for nearly every
single conflict on the globe.

2. It sends the wrong message to Americans. By
permitting this, you are pandering and being
apologetic.

3. Our military men and women suffer enough. Why make
them suffer by not being able to eat and drink during
daylight hours?

4. Tolerance and pandering is not accepted by
Christians who are being forced to practice something
that they do not believe in.

5. This is a clear-cut case of religion being mixed
in with politics. It clearly violates the dignity of
our troops.

6. We are sick and tired of hearing that our armed
forces are being FORCED to practice religious beliefs
that we do not believe in.

Rather than provide you with the name of my military
friend I will hope that you recieve what I am telling
you is the truth. If I did share his name with you I
would worry that he would then be subjected to the
UCMJ as a reprisal - in other words, if this is
happening and our military is being told to keep their
mouths shut over this - he'd get into trouble.

You are a member of the Senate Armed Services
Committee. Please pass this letter on to them, Sir.

STOP THIS PRACTICE OF APOLOGETIC NONSENSE NOW. Have
we not gone on long enough by pandering to Islamists?

Respectfully Submitted,

>YEA YOU fg ARE TRING TO LUL US BACK TO SLEEP BUT YOU >SEE THE GAME IS A FOOT THE HUNT IS ON?

You are a nut. I have no idea why you say some of the things you say C. You obviously only read about half of what I say before you bop off to google up some articles to reprint. Get a blog girl. They're free.

>WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER SEPT.11,2001 TO HAPPEN IT I >LIKE BUYING NEW TIRES BEFORE THEY GO FLAT WE ARE
>BUYING LIFE INSURANCE AMERICAN LIFE INSURANCE AND
>THOSE WHO FIGHT WITH US???

Huh? Attacking Iraq was insurance? Good grief. Attacking Iraq in the war on terror is like Moe slapping Curley for something Larry did. Attacking Iraq is like driving a Chevy but sueing Ford when your gas tank blows up. It's like changing the left tire when the right tire is flat. But that is all and done with. We have to deal with it now. Somehow we have to get back on track and make some headway.

Time will tell. No doubt we'll both adjust our leanings about this as things come out. I have an open mind.

f.g.

Well, I finally have received my answer. Remember all those times I asked if any right-winger could tell me what "we" are going to do "if" the Shi'ite majority votes in Sharia? In other words, what will "we" do if Iraq becomes another Iran, only an Iran with trillions of dollars worth of oil? (No one ever answered.)

Now we know what "we" will do: not a damn thing. Way to go, W! The religious nuts of Iraq couldn't have done it without you!

Four more years! Another war! Another Sharia state! Just like Bin Laden wanted! Al-qaeda for Bush!

C'mon everyone. What other answer could Bush have given to the question posed? That if the Iraqi people vote for a theocracy, he'll overrule them and keep the interim government in place until the Iraqi people vote for a secular democracy?

I don't think so.

Bush isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but neither is he the dumbest.

f.g., there you have it: Bush sucks, but Kerry MUST suck worse, because, um... because he's not Bush! That's Gary's "logic." If you really want to shut Gary up, ask him if he's an American... I think he's a Canadian! They speak french, you know.

The Nazi rep-cons are in a fury right now because their golden boy, Bill O'Lielly, has his ass in a sling, big time. I have shown here on several occasions a who's-who list of veterans and draftdodgers, proving that the rep-con Nazis are the party of, by, and for draftdodging cowards.

Now, let's take stock of those high-moral right-wing "family values" cheerleaders:

Dr. Laura: Spread-legged porno tramp, adultress
Reagan: First to legalize abortion; divorced; married Nancy after knocking her up
Clarence Thomas: Pornography addict
Antoinine Scalia: Orgy enthusiast
Rehnquist: Segregationist
Imus: Cokehead
Glenn Beck: Cokehead
Liddy: Convicted felon, Watergate
Ollie North: Traitorous Marine killer
Limbaugh: Pill popper; doctor shopper; divorced three times, justice obstructer
Drudge: Queer as a 3-dollar bill
Bill Bennet: Degenerate gambling addict
Newt: Screwed and later married intern
Ann Coulter: Lesbian
Strom Thurmond: Rapist; child molestor; racemixer

and now,

O'Lielly: Sexual harasser and vibrator user

I guess any day now we'll hear that Sean Hannity is a satanist. LOL.

As for catherine, anyone with an education beyond the eight grade can plainly see that she is crazy. But Spencer just keeps letting her rant on and on and on... just cut and paste this entire comments area into a "word" file and I guarantee you (and no, I haven't checked yet) that over half of the material will be catharine's crazy, all-caps rants or her cut-and-pastes from newsmax.com or mikesavage.com or somesuch.

You can always tell where the newsmax etc. crap stops and the catherine starts, because she misspells every third word and WRITES IN ALL CAPS TO ADD EMPHASIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet, like I said, Robert Spencer lets her blab on and on ad finitum, or (for you pointy-headed, shameful college graduates) should I say "super finitum"? And as long as she bad-mouths Kerry, she will probably continue to dominate this discussion with 100% pure sputum.

Sorry, my fellow anti-jihadis, but I have been busy of late... I'll find plenty of time to redden your candied little fannies with a size 13 steel-toe safety boot after 11-03.

Love,

KJ

Part of the American Tribe. Nazi Killer. Amen.

Voltaire posted;

"You all prefer to think that Bush is naive in all of this. Well I don't. This has been the plan from the beginning."

What is your point? Are you suggesting that Bush actually wants Iraq to become a sharia state? You are starting to sound like that nutcase Giaur.

I see it this way; the journalist put Bush in a very tight spot with that question. If Bush were to answer "no" many Iraqis (egged on by the Bush haters) would see this as a continued interference into their affairs. I would even venture to say this might encourage many of them to vote for a fundamentalist government as a means of defiance.

On a more encouraging note, I have heard that out of scores of local elections, not one fundamentalist has been elected. For this pattern to be repeated in national elections, it is best for the U.S. to not appear overbearing. Any suggestion that the U.S. will intervene to prevent sharia law can backfire.

Nonetheless, this does not mean that the U.S. will not intervene if this scenario takes place. After all, Bush made a statement, not a pledge.

Well put waterdragon52, you made my same point with much less words.

kj; stop skimping on your medication.

f.g.
NO YOU DON'T??

You know what I say you changed the subject you posted no WMDs and when I show that there were you change the subject? I had thoses on file because of people like you I don't do goole??

Susan-b hate to tell you but your friend is wrong unless he is under some mulsum command?

MORE ON WMDs in Iraq??

Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:40 a.m. EDT
Report: Taped Saddam Names Foreign Leaders in Bribe Scheme
Taped recorded interrogation sessions of Saddam Hussein reportedly show the captured Iraqi dictator naming specific leaders in the Middle East and other parts of the world as recipients of bribes paid by Baghdad, an Iraqi press report claimed this week.
"Diplomatic sources confirm the existence of 150 recordings of Saddam's confessions which include information on bribes paid to heads of state and political leaders in Arab and foreign states," the Iraqi newspaper Al- Mu'tamar reported on Thursday, according the Middle Eastern Media Research Institute.
MEMRI monitors Arab media reports and translates them into English.
Although U.S. authorities have not confirmed the Al- Mu'tamar report, Saddam is said to have been alternatively "talkative" and "uncooperative" in U.S. interrogation sessions. He is expected to stand trial for war crimes under the new Iraqi government sometime this fall.
A decision by the former Iraqi dictator to name names could have a major impact on relations between the U.S. and any allies that were found to be on Saddam's bribe list.
His testimony on Baghdad's bribery network could also ad fuel to the burgeoning United Nations Oil for Food scandal.

How Chinagate Led to 9/11
By Jean Pearce
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 25, 2004
As the 9/11 Commission tries to uncover what kept intelligence agencies from preventing September 11, it has overlooked two vital factors: Jamie Gorelick and Bill Clinton. Gorelick, who has browbeaten the current administration, helped erect the walls between the FBI, CIA and local investigators that made 9/11 inevitable. However, she was merely expanding the policy Bill Clinton established with Presidential Decision Directive 24. What has been little underreported is why the policy came about: to thwart investigations into the Chinese funding of Clinton’s re-election campaign, and the favors he bestowed on them in return.
In April, CNSNews.com staff writer Scott Wheeler reported that a senior U.S. government official and three other sources claimed that the 1995 memo written by Jamie Gorelick, who served as the Clinton Justice Department’s deputy attorney general from 1994 to 1997, created "a roadblock" to the investigation of illegal Chinese donations to the Democratic National Committee. But the picture is much bigger than that. The Gorelick memo, which blocked intelligence agents from sharing information that could have halted the September 11 hijacking plot, was only the mortar in a much larger maze of bureaucratic walls whose creation Gorelick personally oversaw.

It’s a story the 9/11 Commission may not want to hear, and one that Gorelick – now incredibly a member of that commission – has so far refused to tell. But it is perhaps the most crucial one to understanding the intentional breakdown of intelligence that led to the September 11 disaster.

Nearly from the moment Gorelick took office in the Clinton Justice Department, she began acting as the point woman for a large-scale bureaucratic reorganization of intelligence agencies that ultimately placed the gathering of intelligence, and decisions about what – if anything – would be done with it. This entire operation was under near-direct control of the White House. In the process, more than a dozen CIA and FBI investigations underway at the time got caught beneath the heel of the presidential boot, investigations that would ultimately reveal massive Chinese espionage as millions in illegal Chinese donations filled Democratic Party campaign coffers.

By the time Gorelick wrote the March 1995 memo that sealed off American intelligence agencies from each other and the outside world, all of the most critical Chinagate investigations by American intelligence agencies were already underway. Some of their findings were damning:

• In an investigation originally instigated by the CIA, the FBI was beginning its search for the source of the leak of W-88 nuclear warhead technology to China among the more than 1,000 people who had access to the secrets. Despite Justice Department stonewalling and the Department’s refusal to seek wiretap authority in 1997, the investigation eventually led to Wen Ho Lee and the Los Alamos National Laboratory.
• The FBI first collected Extensive evidence in 1995 linking illegal Democratic Party donations to China, according to the Congressional Record. But Congress and the Director of the CIA didn’t find out about the Justice Department’s failure to act upon that evidence until 1997, safely after the 1996 election.
• According to classified CIA documents leaked to the Washington Times, between 1994 and 1997, the CIA learned that China sold Iran missile technology, a nuclear fission reactor, advanced air-defense radar and chemical agents. The Chinese also provided 5,000 ring magnets to Pakistan, used in producing weapons-grade uranium. The Chinese also provided uranium fuel for India's reactors.

In many cases the CIA resorting to leaking classified information to the media, in an effort to bypass the administration’s blackout.

WHAT ARE WE NOW DEALING WITH BUT PACKIS HAVE NUKES AND N.KOREA ALL CHINAS FRIENDS??

N.KOREA WILLING TO SELL TO TERRORIST?
REMEMBER SADDAM HAD A DEAL WITH N.KOREA OF THE TUNE OF 10 MILLION AND ALL FROM THE OIL FOR FOOD MONEY?

YES IT DOES MATTER!!
CAUSE IT WAS NOT ALL ABOUT SEX??

Tests Confirm Sarin Gas in Baghdad Bomb
NewsMax.com Wires
Tuesday, May 25, 2004
WASHINGTON – Comprehensive testing has confirmed the presence of the chemical weapon sarin in the remains of a roadside bomb discovered this month in Baghdad, a defense official said Tuesday.
The determination, made by a laboratory in the United States that the official would not identify, verifies what earlier, less-thorough field tests had found: The bomb was made from an artillery shell designed to disperse the deadly nerve agent on the battlefield.
The origin of the shell remains unclear, and finding that out is a priority for the U.S. military, the defense official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

Report: U.S suspects Iraqi WMD in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Tuesday, August 26, 2003
U.S. intelligence suspects Iraq's weapons of mass destruction have finally been located.
Unfortunately, getting to them will be nearly impossible for the United States and its allies, because the containers with the strategic materials are not in Iraq.
Instead they are located in Lebanon's heavily-fortified Bekaa Valley, swarming with Iranian and Syrian forces, and Hizbullah and ex-Iraqi agents, Geostrategy-Direct.com will report in Wednesday's new weekly edition.
U.S. intelligence first identified a stream of tractor-trailer trucks moving from Iraq to Syria to Lebaon in January 2003. The significance of this sighting did not register on the CIA at the time.
U.S. intelligence sources believe the area contains extended-range Scud-based missiles and parts for chemical and biological warheads.

Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:42 a.m. EDT
WSJ: Precursor WMDs Stockpiled in Iraq
Far from being an isolated incident, yesterday's discovery in Iraq of an artillery shell filled with Sarin gas is just the tip of the iceberg of recently uncovered evidence that Saddam Hussein had a weapons of mass destruction program that was fully operational until the U.S. invaded in March 2003.
Tuesday's Wall Street Journal reports that the U.S. inspectors have found within the last few months "warehouses full of commercial and agricultural chemicals," which, if mixed and packaged properly, "could quickly become chemical weapons."
U.S. forces in Karabala have also recently uncovered 55-gallon drums loaded with chemicals that were said to be "pesticide," some of which were stored in what military sources described as a "camouflaged bunker complex."
Why camouflage insect spray?
The alleged agricultural site just happened to be located alongside a military ammunition dump, reports Insight Magazine.
According to the Journal, Iraq Survey Group head Charles Duelfer recently told Congress that some of Saddam's WMD facilities were newly built and contained "stockpiled" raw materials that would have allowed him to "produce such weapons on a moment's notice."
There's more.

f.g.

What more do you need one to go off in your back yard well then you might be dead if you have no atropine and guess what you can't get that at your local drug store get on board be informed and tell others and YES the PRESS doesn't like Bush So you have to work a little harder!!

Sarin Nerve Agent Bomb Explodes in Iraq
Monday May 17, 2004 4:01 PM
By CHRIS TORCHIA
Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A roadside bomb containing sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. Two people were treated for ``minor exposure,'' but no serious injuries were reported.
``The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found,'' said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq. ``The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.
``A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable. This produced a very small dispersal of agent,'' he said.
The Iraqi Survey Group is a U.S. organization whose task was to search for weapons of mass destruction after the ouster of Saddam Hussein in last year's invasion.
``The round was an old binary-type requiring the mixing of two chemical components in separate sections of the cell before the deadly agent is produced,'' Kimmitt said. ``The cell is designed to work after being fired from an artillery piece.''
He said the dispersal of the nerve agent from a device such as the homemade bomb is ``limited.''
``The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War,'' Kimmitt said. ``Two explosive ordinance team members were treated for minor exposure to nerve agent as a result of the partial detonation of the round.''

NOW F.G. I CALL THAT WMDs FOUND IN IRAQ!!

UN experts find evidence of WMD
By Edith M Lederer
10jun04

UN weapons experts have found 20 engines used in Iraq's banned Al Samoud 2 missiles in a Jordanian scrap yard, along with other equipment that could be used to produce weapons of mass destruction.

Acting chief UN inspector Demetrius Perricos disclosed the discovery today in a closed-door briefing to the UN Security Council.
According to the text of his presentation, Perricos said a similar missile engine had been found in a scrap yard in the Dutch port of Rotterdam, while a request had been made to Turkey, which has also received scrap metal from Iraq. The discoveries raise questions about the fate of material and equipment that could be used to produce biological and chemical weapons as well as banned long-range missiles.
Perricos said UN inspectors do not how much material has been removed from Iraq since the war began in March 2003, and suggested the interim government may want to reconsider "the whole policy for the continued export of metal scrap" once it assumes power on June 30.
"The only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," he said, according to the text of his briefing.
Afterwards, he told reporters that up to a thousand tons of scrap metal was leaving Iraq every day.
Perricos told the council that UN experts visited "relevant scrap yards" in Jordan and discovered 20 SA-2 missile engines, which are used in Al Samoud 2 missiles. His report did not specify the condition of the engines, or whether they were damaged.
The UN team also discovered some processing equipment with UN tags - which show it was being monitored - including chemical reactors, heat exchangers, and a solid propellant mixer bowl to make missile fuel, he said. It also discovered "a large number of other processing equipment without tags, in very good condition." The UN inspectors in Jordan were told that "brand new material like stainless steel and special alloy sheets" was being sent out of Iraq, he said. At today's closed council meeting, UN diplomats said many members expressed concern about items missile engines and other material that had been monitored by UN inspectors ending up in foreign scrap yards including Algeria, Brazil, Germany, France, Chile, Spain, Russia and China.

NOW WHAT WERE YOU SAYING ABOUT NOTHING BEING THERE? IF IT WAS NOT THERE HOW WAS IT TAGGED AND GET OUT?

WHO WAS IT WHO PROFETED FROM OIL FOR FOOD?

Iraqi Nerve Gas, WMD Find Blows Away Pundits
Charles R. Smith
Monday, May 17, 2004
The discovery of an Iraqi artillery shell armed with nerve gas has the liberal community and mass media in a panic.
The 155mm nerve gas shell was rigged to kill U.S. troops but it failed. U.S. Brig. General Mark Kimmitt confirmed the discovery during a news conference in Baghdad.
Yet, the discovery of nerve gas was followed by a second revelation. A second shell, equipped with mustard gas was found two weeks ago.
The mustard gas shell identified by the special WMD inspection team in Iraq appears to be one of 550 declared by Saddam to U.N. inspectors during the early 1990s. These shells disappeared later in 2002 when Hans Blix asked to see them.
The sudden discovery of nerve gas and mustard gas in Iraq can be added to two other recent events ignored by the mainstream media.
Saddam and Osama
The first took place during the 9/11 hearings when former Clinton Defense Secretary William Cohen testified that in 1998 Saddam's top nerve gas experts met with several members of al Qaeda in Baghdad. Clearly, such a meeting places the top terrorist with the leading Middle East dictator in the same basket. The dangerous combination of two madmen, mixed with weapons of mass destruction, seems to blow the "no threat here" argument out of the water.
However, that is not enough for the left.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4267133,00.html?=ticker
Polish Troops Find Sarin Warheads in Iraq

Thursday July 1, 2004 10:01 PM
WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Polish troops have found two warheads in Iraq believed to contain a deadly nerve agent, but it is not clear what period the weapons came from, the Defense Ministry said Thursday.
The two warheads were found in early June in a bunker in the area controlled by Polish forces, and they tested positive for cyclosarin, a substance many times stronger than sarin, the ministry said in a statement.
``There is no doubt that the warheads contain chemical weapons,'' Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski told TVN24. ``The problem is what period they came from, whether the (Persian) Gulf War or earlier, and whether they were usable, partly usable or not at all.''
Another dozen were found later in June and were being tested in Baghdad and the United States, he said.
``Some of them are very corroded. They are probably not usable, but are dangerous to the local environment,'' Szmajdzinski said.
In May, an artillery shell apparently filled with the sarin nerve agent was discovered at the side of the road in Baghdad by U.S. forces.
Officials at the time stopped short of claiming the munition was definite evidence of a large weapons stockpile in prewar Iraq or evidence of recent production by Saddam Hussein's regime.
Poland sent troops to the U.S.-led war to oust Saddam Hussein and commands some 6,200 international troops - including some 2,400 from Poland - in south-central Iraq.

F.G.
GUESS YOU DID NOT GET THE RIGHT TALKING POINTS??

KIND OF LIKE THE DEMOCRAT I MEET YESTERDAY GOT ALL FLUSTERED AFTER THE NAME CALLING AND THEN THE POINTING OUT OF THE NAME CALLING THEN SHE RAN AWAY WITH HER TAIL BETWEN HER LEGGS!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunnter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OVER HERE OR OVER THERE AMEN

KJ

You say: "As for catherine ... Spencer just keeps letting her rant on and on and on... Yet, like I said, Robert Spencer lets her blab on and on ad finitum ... as long as she bad-mouths Kerry..."

Yes, Keith, and I let you rant on and on, too, even when you say something despicable and ridiculous like this. You think I don't ban Catherine because she dislikes Kerry? I hardly ever ban anyone -- posts here are largely unmoderated. Did you even notice that the article I put up here is disagreeing with Bush?

Unfortunately, the jihadists are non-partisan.

Cordially
RS

pOOr pOOr keith SOOO upset could not even spell my name?

Yes he is off his drugs again today?

Kerry's Iranian Connection Fights Democracy
By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | September 8, 2004
Frivolous lawsuits have long been used as weapons of the powerful against the weak; a particularly egregious example is now playing out in Texas, courtesy of one of John Kerry’s most controversial supporters: the Iranian Hassan Nemazee. Nemazee is pursuing a ten-million-dollar damage claim against the Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran (SMCCDI) and its coordinator, Aryo B. Pirouznia. A Nemazee victory in this suit would almost certainly muzzle or destroy altogether the SMCCDI, one of the most energetic and courageous opponents of Iran’s entrenched but uneasy mullahocracy. But now that Nemazee’s lawsuit has been filed, it has become increasingly clear that it could embarrass the entire Democratic Party — and severely damage the already flagging candidacy of John Kerry.

Nemazee is an influential figure with many friends in high places in groups such as the American-Iranian Council (AIC), the National Iranian American Council (NIAC), and the Iranian-American Bar Association (IABA). Nemazee’s name is also well known in Democratic Party circles. He was a prominent contributor to Bob Torricelli’s New Jersey Senate campaign. The multimillionaire entrepreneur also contributed $50,000 to his friend Al Gore’s Recount Fund (and $250,000 to the Gore campaign), $60,000 to Bill Clinton’s legal defense fund, and over $150,000 to the Democratic National Committee. Clinton attempted to reward him by naming him U.S. Ambassador to Argentina — but the Senate declined to confirm him after Forbes magazine published, in May 1999, an extremely damaging expose of his shady financial dealings.
Undaunted, Nemazee continued efforts to establish fruitful contacts between Iranian groups advocating normalization of relations with Iran and high-level members of the Democratic Party. He joined the Board of Directors of the AIC, an organization whose president, Hooshang Amirahmadi, is identified on the SMCCDI website as a “well known lobbyist for the Iranian Mullahocracy.” Nemazee was involved in a March 2002 fundraiser for Senate Foreign Affairs Committee heavyweight Joe Biden (D-DE). This event was hosted by Sadegh Namazikhah, another AIC member whom Aryo Pirouznia charges with trying to improve public perception of “one of the most despotic regimes in the world.”

Three months later it was Kerry’s turn: Nemazee invited the future Democratic standard bearer to speak at an AIC dinner. Nemazee himself also spoke, declaring that the AIC “does not attempt to explain or rationalize the position of the government of Iran, nor does it attempt to do so for the government of the United States. Its mission is to educate both sides and to attempt to establish the basis and the vehicle for a dialogue which will ultimately lead to a resumption of relations.” If Kerry registered any protest against this assertion that the United States should normalize relations with one of the world’s bloodiest dictatorships, it was not recorded. Nemazee, according to Iran experts Banafsheh Zand-Bonazzi and Elio Bonazzi, now seems to be denying that he ever made this speech at all — although it is still posted on the AIC’s website.

Outside San Francisco’s Ritz-Carlton Hotel, where this grand event was held, the SMCCDI organized a large protest rally. Nemazee, evidently, would not forget this and other affronts. In his lawsuit, he charges that the SMCCDI knowingly and repeatedly made “false and defamatory statements” about his support for the Iranian regime. His complaint states categorically that “Nemazee does not ‘support … the Islamic Republic and the Revolution.’”

But his friend Kerry, meanwhile, seems to have absorbed the very lessons that Nemazee now denies having tried to teach. Before the Council on Foreign Relations in December 2003, Kerry announced that he would be willing as President to pursue rapprochement with Iran: “As president, I will be prepared early on to explore areas of mutual interest with Iran, just as I was prepared to normalize relations with Vietnam a decade ago.” And most notoriously, his staff sent out an email that somehow made its way to the government-controlled Mehr News Agency in Tehran, where it was trumpeted as evidence of his resolve to patch things up with the mullahs. “It is in the urgent interests of the people of the United States,” the message read, “to restore our country’s credibility in the eyes of the world. America needs the kind of leadership that will repair alliances with countries on every continent that have been so damaged in the past few years, as well as build new friendships and overcome tensions with others.”

Kerry’s camp professed puzzlement over how this email made it to Tehran. Initially, a Kerry aide dismissed the story as “just a hoax.” But this pose proved impossible to maintain. Kerry’s senior foreign affairs advisor, Rand Beers, later admitted that the message was genuine, saying: “I have no idea how they got hold of that letter, which was prepared for Democrats Abroad. I scratched my head when I saw that. The only way they could have gotten it was if someone in Iran was with Democrats Abroad.” In light of the ties between the AIC and the Democratic Party, that possibility is at least open to question.

But Kerry’s olive branches to the regime that carries on the legacy of the Ayatollah Khomeini now embarrass him: his Council on Foreign Relations remarks seem to have been removed from the Kerry-Edwards website. Hence also the Nemazee lawsuit: to silence the SMCCDI and its inconvenient protests. One way to do that is indirect, by using the suit to put the SMCCDI out of action. According to documents that Pirouznia/SMCCDI defense attorney Bob Jenevein made available to me, the prosecution has been playing several such games. On August 20, 2004, Jenevein wrote a letter to Rob Wiley of Locke Lidell & Sapp, the elite Texas law firm representing Nemazee. He proposed five stipulations — points that both sides could agree to, so that they need not spend the court’s time trying to establish or disprove them. These included: “1. The Islamic regime in Iran is sympathetic to terrorists. 2. The Islamic regime in Iran poses a threat to the security of the United States and/or its citizens at home or abroad. 3. For the United States to normalize its diplomatic relations with Iran at this time would lend credibility to the Islamic regime in Iran. 4. For the United States to ease trade sanctions against Iran at this time would lend credibility to the Islamic regime in Iran. 5. Anything that would lend credibility to the Islamic regime in Iran at this time would have value to that regime.” Wiley answered on the same day that his team had taken the stipulations “under advisement”; but in the almost two weeks since then, gave no further answer. Thus Nemazee’s attorneys effectively agreed to none of the stipulations, raising the prospect that Jenevein would have to spend hours upon hours in court establishing these points, thereby endangering the SMCCDI by straining its financial resources.

Other documents furnished by Jenevein suggest that the prosecution is trying to run up the costs of the litigation in other ways also — attempting to find out who is paying Pirouznia’s legal bills and to drive SMCCDI into destitution. One example was a fax that Wiley sent to Jenevein last Monday afternoon, informing him of a draft motion that the prosecution was planning to file on certain matters regarding the case unless the prosecution and defense reached an agreement by 5PM Tuesday. Jenevein immediately faxed a response, suggesting ways to agree, but the prosecution ignored it and filed the motion the next morning anyway. This multiplication of motions, of course, is a classic tactic to drive up court costs.

Related to all this is the curious fact that, according to an inside source close to the case, Nemazee has never made himself available for a deposition. Pirouznia’s defense attorney contacted Nemazee’s lawyers in early August, immediately after taking the case (five months after it was filed), to request dates for this deposition; Nemazee’s team responded that he would only be available on two dates in November and two in December – all four after the election, and all over seven months after the case was filed. “He’s saying we want his deposition for political reasons,” the insider exclaimed incredulously, “but HE filed the lawsuit!” The Pirouznia/SMCCDI team has filed a motion ordering Nemazee to appear for a deposition on September 20; no ruling has been made on it yet.

Why file a lawsuit, and then play hide-and-seek with the defense? The lobbyist and his team seem to be trying to keep the case under wraps until after the presidential election. “Nemazee is worried that his candidate will be embarrassed if the facts of this litigation are made public,” observes Jenevein. “I’m afraid that this case would appear typical of the frivolous lawsuits about which Republicans complain so loudly. To the extent that Hassan Nemazee constitutes a link between a presidential campaign and the Iranian regime, that link would be considered a grave political liability for the campaign.
The lawsuit is designed to silence those who speak about this.”

The Nemazee camp appears to be growing increasingly anxious lest details of their suit leak out. That may be why, according to an informed source, the founder of a public relations firm and international speaker’s bureau that specializes in foreign policy and terrorism-related issues recently contacted Pirouznia and invited him to lunch — ultimately, two lunches on consecutive days, all to argue that he should drop the suit. Important figures of the Iranian democracy movement, the PR wizard intimated to Pirouznia, really wanted him to forget the whole thing. Dumbfounded, Pirouznia reminded the PR maven that it was he who was the target of the suit, and that he was only defending himself and his organization. Several other people who figures connected to the defense team wryly term “Nemazee’s messengers” also contacted Pirouznia to make the same appeal.

The SMCCDI and Aryo Pirouznia are evidently not the only ones in Nemazee’s sights. According to an informed source, Nemazee’s lawyer asked in official documents used by the plaintiff to build the case about the relationship between Pirouznia and another pair of stalwart Iran democracy activists: Banafsheh Zand-Bonazzi and Elio Bonazzi. Said the source: “Aryo’s lawyer objected that this is not relevant, but basically this means that even if Nemazee didn’t sue the Bonazzis directly, they are among his targets.” This despite the fact that the Bonazzis have never advanced any political agenda for Iran beyond promoting the idea of a genuine (not UN- or Jimmy Carter-led) internationally monitored referendum to decide on Iran’s form of government after the complete ousting of any form of theocracy. Zand-Bonazzi’s father, Siamak Pourzand, is a well-known Iranian journalist, intellectual, freedom fighter – and political prisoner of the Islamic regime.

Thus the mullahs fight on for their survival in the courtrooms of Texas.

Keith maybe because I help fight the terrorist or maybe because i like short skirts or because I'm so cute or he likes my redneck ways??

sometimes crazy like a fox is good?

I do not defend Bush in the indefencable but I will Vote for him the thought of run away Kerry is not an op!! Think of when Kerry was Lt Gov and would not spend the money to make an evac. plan ?

Oh Yea maybe he likes my prayer for all who Fight?

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat Amen

PS
Kerry scare the old people and divide the people like he did in 1971 with the Protest that he led?? This only helps our enemys?

Well, I just tried my little experiment myself.... I pasted all the comments for this post into a word file and there were 44 pages. Then I erased everything except catherine's remarks and there were (pause) thirty pages. That's over two-thirds, 68 percent.

[Update.... this was done before the most recent rant/c&p; if somone wants to check I bet it's now up to 75%.]

I say its high time we rename the blog "catharine's jihad/lib'rul watch", since she basically has carte blanche (ah! French!) with the entire site with as regards profanity, off-topic bloviations, insults, cut&paste RNC propaganda, and plain old trollism.

f.g., if you came here looking for intelligent conversation, I regret to inform you that excluding the articles themselves and a few posters like Hugh and evil lib'rul KJ, you're going to be pretty lonely.

rublev: "after all, Bush made a statement, not a pledge..."

LOL! Very good disembling! Where were you when Ken Starr (R-Tobacco) spent 70 MILLION (of your) dollars investigating a little sex?

Too bad we don't have an opposition party or a "lib'rul media" in Amerikkka, we could have put Dumbya under oath and asked him "what about Sharia?" and "what about another Shi'ite State like Iran?" BEFORE the invasion.

rublev: "stop skimping on your medication"

Okay, maybe I'll drive over to Palm Beach and try to score some Oxycontin. I heard that works wonders.

KJ writes:
O'Lielly: Sexual harasser and vibrator user

So now we know you are Japanese!
You can slap deceitful labels on all of the conservatives, but they won't stick, because they have real character.
Why do the liberal labels stick? Because they're all true. FLIP-FLOP

Andrew-
Stop being such a pessimist!

There are a few posters on this board who need to read the Kay and Dueffler reports...

Catherine is the SPIRIT of JihadWatch!

>You know what I say you changed the subject
>you posted no WMDs and when I show that
>there were you change the subject?

You could show me a coherent English sentence for one thing. And no dear, you haven't justified going to war over WMDs with your ~news rehash, at least not to my mind. Give it a break. The President has said publicly that the WMDs that we went looking for are not there. Sure there is a bunch of nasty stuff over there ... but invading Iraq to disarm them of WMDs as a function of The War On Terror (Operation 9/11 Justice) ... spare me.

Another thing C, if you would just post the link rather than the article itself, people could read the source for themselves and what you say might not get so lost in the noise. Give it a thought.

As they stand your postings are tedious to read at best.

f.g.

P.S. I hope everyone has a wonderful night. Be good to yourselves and remember life is not a problem to be solved but a joy to be lived.

As Bernard Lewis has said:

Al-Qa-ida has held the United States explicitly responsible for the military takeover in Algeria. Here as elsewhere America, as the dominant power in the world of the infidels, was naturally blamed for all that went wrong, and more specifically for the suppression of Islamist movements, the slaughter of their followers, and the establishment of what were seen as anti-Islamist dictatorships with Western - more specifically, American - support. Here too the Americans were blamed - by many for not protesting this violation of democratic liberties, by some for actively encouraging and supporting the military regime. Similar problems arise in Egypt, in Pakistan, and in some other Muslim countries where it seems likely that a genuinely free and fair election result would result in an Islamist victory.

In this, the democrats are of course at a disadvantage. Their ideology requires them, even when in power, to give freedom and rights to the Islamist opposition. The Islamists, when in power, are under no such obligation. On the contrary, their principles require them to suppress what they see as impious and subversive activities.

For Islamists, democracy, expressing the will of the people, is the road to power, but it is a one-way road, on which there is no return, no rejection of the sovereignty of God, as exercised through his chosen representatives. Their electoral policy has been classically summarized as "One man (men only), one vote, once."

Clearly, in the Islamic world as it was in Europe, a free and fair election is the culmination, not the inauguration, of the process of democratic development. But that is no reason to cosset dictators."

pp. 111-112, The Crisis of Islam, by Bernard Lewis.

Catherine is the SPIRIT of JihadWatch!

Posted by: D' Artist at October 19, 2004 05:13 PM

Still LOL Love all you JWers!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defet the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat and give them Balls to stand and Fight Amen

PS
Out spending money Buying American Yesterday and working on my aim over the week-end

Another thing C, if you would just post the link rather than the article itself, people could read the source for themselves and what you say might not get so lost in the noise. Give it a thought.

As they stand your postings are tedious to read at best.

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at October 19, 2004 05:34 PM

Now this is confuss-in to some people cause why should you have to leave to read the same art. if you read it what does it matter which link?

f.g. doesn't make since?

Was thinking LOL "Catherine is the SPIRIT" no flesh and blood but put together real well!!LOL

There are a few posters on this board who need to read the Kay and Dueffler reports...

Posted by: jawa at October 19, 2004 05:11 PM

Post the links so we can?

From what I have heard things were worse than we thought that came from Kay?

Dueffler said in the hearing yes last week some Iraqi brought in a cem bomb? but that is not what we wanted?

Like I have ALWAYS written when the Lib's are loseing the revert to calling names point this out to them how intorlent they are and they walk away in shame??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Over here and Over there Amen

D' Artist
No I think he is a lib Jew the only time he wants to fight the real enemy is when they blow some thing up in Israel?

Yes KJ is our lib. Jew???

Sometimes he fights for what is right but now he is haveing mixed emo.??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

f.g.:

While it is appropriate to disagree with the CONTENT of another's post, it's considered bad form here at JW/DW to criticize the FORM that self-expression takes, especially as regards grammar, spelling, typos, etc. If you find someone's post too tedious to read, it is your choice and perfect right to skip it over. Here at JW/DW we view attempts at controlling and correcting others' forms of expression as rudeness, pure and simple. It is unwelcome and inappropriate. We EXPECT it from KJ, as he often seems to have trouble recognizing the bounds of propriety, evidenced by the CONTENT of many of his posts. But picking on Catherine will tarnish your own image here.

I for one enjoy reading her posts and have learned from them. You should give it a try - learning, that is. It's a nice substitute for being judgmental and debasing yourself by engaging in personal insults.

Catherine, BTW, is a long-time and much-loved regular. Her friends and supporters are legion.

Speaking as an Englishman who is left of the Labour Party on some issues and right of the Conservative Party on others I found some of kj's posts above more vicious towards Bush supporters and jw posters than anything we've read from muslims lately. Resorting to ranting against people like Catherine isn't going to acheive anything - if you find her posts too long just skip thru them . I like jw because it allows the widest range of opinions and gives everyone a chance to air their views on what is the biggest threat to the West since the Third Reich. I have been to several "liberal left" sites and had my usually polite posts deleted because they said I was a racist, Republican, christian fundamentalist. I am none of those things and find the fear of deabate amongst the Left to be pretty frightening.
As for Iraq maybe people should check out the "Iraq The Model" blog which shows that not all iraqis want to live in a radical islamic hellhole. Sure Bush made mistakes with Iraq but without the British and American intervention (which has carried on in the "no-fly zones" since 1991) tens of thousands of southern marsh arabs and northern iraqi kurds would have died at Saddam's hands. As for Bush's comments above - what the hell else could he say ? If he said "we'll abandon the elections if the islamists look like winning " can you imagine the way he'd be torn apart by most of the american and world media (the BBC would turn it into the biggest news story of the year - "Bush scraps democratic elections!!!" ). I'm sure the majority of Iraqis don't want to live in their own version of Iran but as long as our media keep comparing the scum who blow up children & doctors & aid workers with genuine freedom fighters then ordinary Iraqis must wonder whose side the western public are on. Sorry if this post isn't intelligent enough for kj but I always thought this site was an anti-jihad one not an anti-Republican one.

LOVE LIFE - HATE ISLAM !!!

CGW said it well.
As always, thank you Catherine, for your time and energy.

Son of Albion:

I agree with you completely. What is Bush SUPPOSED to say - "We'll never let that happen, seeing as Iraq will be the strategic staging-ground for our other pre-emptive missions in the islamic world." ? He's not about to let THAT cat out of the bag. It's just our own version of taqiyya, Western-style!

Andrew:

You are WAY too pessimistic. Even if you feel in your heart of hearts that we are truly doomed as a civilization, saying so, especially in an open forum, gladdens the heart of the umma, which you should NEVER do even for a moment. Where's your fighting spirit? Read Catherine's posts a little more often - maybe some of hers will rub off on you! :-)

CGW - my turn to agree with you. We don't need to be too pessimistic , i really believe that within the next decade or so islam will experience a collapse that will lead to it's final demise. But if I succumb to my darkest fears and think that maybe , in a hundred years time or so, the moslems have somehow conquered the world, I cheer myself up by thinking that just as the deathworshippers are about to celebrate their "victory", a giant asteroid will crash into Saudi arabia and send mankind the way of the dinosaurs...

I guess I am risking a size 13 steel-toed boot by posting here,ha ha.
I agree that we should keep our defeatism to ourselves ( I've been guilty of it too ) you just know that our comments are posted on some muslim blog encouraging the "faithful" to continue in their efforts to force their way of death on the free world.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 19, 2004 07:57 PM

If we can make it through Bill Cilton we can do anything!!

Have been having some wine with friends and this is something worth fighting for!!

Ever try to take a skate board away from an American Child??

I don't understand the sad Faces they are not winning
We and the Iraqis are killing 100 Terrorist everyday! And I aint see-ing no mulsums in the USA tak-en guns to the streets and if they do WOW BABY FUN TIME FOR EVERY AMERICAN!!

Kj hates me but loves me he is confussed ??

F.G. is a terrorist supporter by default like those who sat and watched Europe be tak-en twice??

then they cried no not me? who will save me? well who was it?the old Redneck from the back country the USA and they coulden't spell or put a sentance together but boy did they see EVIL and have WILL to FIGHT FOR FREEDOM!!!

CGW you scare me??
But it is good Fear but I will work through it!!

Wiskey for my men Beer for my horses??

Any body hear about them try-ing to take out our chicken soup 2 trucks over turn in the last 3 days? the cure to Flue everybody knows is Chicken soup??

Pisses me off to see all the Gizzers in line for the shot and do you think they care if their Grandchildren have it no it is just me me?? Have they not had a good life? that they would take it from the babys?

Part Of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
Never think KJ would not defend me we are like brother and sister?

Amen, Catherine!

We have been working on the paradigm that democracy is the ends rather than a means and the election process is the means to achieve that end - ie democracy.

Democracy should be the means to achieve the end and the end is the UN charter on Human rights. Any democratic election process that does not contribute to Human rights should be castigated.

You only need to look North to Canada to see
how CAIR is demanding Sharia-Law for Muslims,it's far easier to make Canada an Islamic state to launch attacks across the border and don't in the way Muslims in Palestine do to Israel.
The Canadian Government is frightened to offend Muslims,this appeasement looks to be a effort to avoid future terrorism by Islamists to murder non-Muslim Canadians to demand an Islamic state ruled by Sharia-law.
One leader from an Islamic org. stated on a TV show that democracies can't exist in predominately Muslim nations,the Quran tells Muslims to reclaim land for Islam and fight a Jihad for an Islamic state where ever they live.
The leaders don't understand that some Muslims are looking several generations down the road for when they will be the majority and create a Islamic Political Party and then claim the Country for Allah and Islam. The West needs to rewrite the immigration laws and deny people that ascribe to any faith that overtly calls for violence to others or a goal to overthrow democracy and replace it with religious laws thaat are against human rights and the will of the masses.

Iraq getting a shria Government will only re-enforce the cause to end Global Jihad by Islamists and expose the faith as the ravings of a lunatic bent on world control by Islam and a communistic mysogenistic oppression with the sword hanging over your head.

NO ISLAM KNOW PEACE

UN charter on Human rights. Any democratic election process that does not contribute to Human rights should be castigated.

Posted by: Nicolei at October 19, 2004 09:03 PM

And would that be like the rights of the People of Rewanda? or the People in the Sudan?

You confuse me? What has the UN or the leage of nations ever done?
We havee the oil for Food WAIT A MIN. THE WERE ON THE TAKE?? OH! YEA! THEY ARE NOW RIPING OFF THE IRAQI PEOPLE??

Again I'm con fussed what it is you want ??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

fg
(he's in bed now but may be back to read)
If we got Osama do you think it would be over? He's in the boondocks of Pakistan where a helicopter can't even get to, but we're working on it.
If we did find WMD in Iraq do you think it would be over?
Look at the BIG picture.
Going into Iraq allows us to set up bases in a stategic part of the Middle East (having oil doesn't hurt), for when we have to start dealing with other countries in this Global War on Terror.
The Honey Pot therory of bringing the terrorists out of their holes to fight in Iraq makes it easier for us ( I just wish we would use FULL force).
It may not be the solution but it's a start.

PEACE.......Through Superior Fire Power!

Pres Bush's statement that he would be disappointed if Iraqis choose a theocratic state makes no sense whatever.

Iraq already is a theocracy in all but name. The moment the US accepted that Sharia will be the abiding legal system in Iraq and was so drafted into the Iraq's constitution, theocracy was established, and with the blessing of the US.

The same holds for Afghanistan. Just because Afghanistan has had an election, is neither here nor there. It was under the auspices of sharia. The Afghans and Karzai are behaving themselves with great difficulty, as long as the US is in the country, and they are of course desperate for as much of Kaffir money as they can extract from the infidels. In the case of Afghanistan, the US accepted, yet again, that Sharia would be the legal system.

Democracy and Sharia are fundamentally incompatible. Surely the wise people in the US administration know that.

So here we are. After spending huge amounts of blood and treasure, all we have got are legally constituted sharia states, but now with the bonus that they are free from sanctions and can do as they like. And this they most certainly will do, the moment the coalition is out of the countries. Unless of course the coalition is intending to stay indefinitely in both these countries.

Saudi Arabia and Iran could not be happier. In addition the price of oil is at an all-time high, filling Saudi and Iranian coffers for more mosque building in the West.

Terrific.

It is all so depressing.

Kj,

I wanted to thank you for posting on these boards. I read some posts on here and it seems like some people can be against you or any one who would be voting for Kerry.

The truth of the matter is OBL declaired war on the US when Pres. Clinton was in office. And the islamofacists will continue if Kerry is in office or Bush.

That said I really wish we would have been more proactive back then. I pray we remain proactive now. I am not sure if that will happen if Kerry is elected. I am not sure where we are heading if we continue on this pace. But I know we didn't start this fight.

I appreciate the posts on this message board. Even the ones I don't agree with at times.

p.s. Cathrine, are there more girls like you out there? I hope so, I have been looking :)

Gary, Voltaire

Gary:Bush is making a big mistake. Makes one wonder how many magnitudes worse a kerry presidency would be for the world.

I sometimes think that the situation has to get a lot worse, before we in the West see the problem of Islam, as it really is. In that respect a Kerry presidency would be good.

Voltaire:You all prefer to think that Bush is naive in all of this. Well I don't. This has been the plan from the beginning.

I've had nagging doubts about the US administrations policy as regards Iraq, and Islam in general since 9/11. The administrations policies just did not make coherent sense.

Just after 9/11 was the time to set the Islamic world right. Righteous anger and the whole world was on America's side. The whole Islamic world was in fear that Islam was under the hammer and may not survive. Instead we had the mantra of 'Islam is peace', deliberate prevarication so that American anger will subside, and the opposition will get time to get organised. Well the opposition in the muslim world and in the West did become organised for defence. Now they have become so confident, that they can go on the offensive. Muslims are now openly talking of bombing LA.

Then again at the time, Israel was under a wave of suicide bomb attacks, India's parliament was attacked. Both these countries were willing to go after the Jihadis, in concert with US. Instead the US pressured both Israel and India to exercise 'restraint', thus letting the Islamic world of the hook. It is inconceivable that the wise heads in the administration did not see this coming.

Why is it that senior officials of the Adminstration are unable to stick to a particular agreed policy? From the President down, each senior official seems to mouth of in different directions, thus handing ammunition to those who will most certainly exploit the differences that arise as a consequence.

Andrew:
Indeed, it is all so sad.

p.s. Cathrine, are there more girls like you out there? I hope so, I have been looking :)

Posted by: Weatherob at October 19, 2004 11:07 PM

You Bet they are we are stuborn and don't spell to well but look real good !!

Mostly in the south this is why the Mussis are trying to take us but there are many Zel Millers here so we will not bow to some stupid rock god??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who support them Amen

We must give the muslim world the opportunity to democratise and to learn how to treat other non-muslims as equals. Maybe Indonesia will democratise properly with its new president? However, if after over 1000 war dead, 6000 wounded, over 100 billion in aid and hundreds of billions spent waging war, all we get is another theofascist state then we have failed in Iraq. We would have given the muslims there every chance for freedom and we would be getting a mortal enemy in gratitude. It means muslims in the middle east arn't the same as the eastern europeans when communism fell.

It means the US could drain its treasury dry (like the Romans did with the barbarians across the Rhine who destroyed Rome in gratitude) and nothing would change there. Policy may have to change eventually from one where we bend over backwards to protect these people to a policy of letting them wallow in their own self-made misery (for our own self-protection) and walling the west off from the muslim world. We need our own renewable energy resources to do this. If we fail in Iraq we really may need to build a wall not a bridge for the islamists. I hope I am wrong but sharia in Iraq would be a historical disaster.

Why is it that senior officials of the Adminstration are unable to stick to a particular agreed policy? From the President down, each senior official seems to mouth of in different directions, thus handing ammunition to those who will most certainly exploit the differences that arise as a consequence.

Posted by: DP111 at October 19, 2004 11:21 PM

So you see no hope then why don't you just shoot yourself and miss the fight??

how long you been paying ation? not long by the way you write or you believe Dan Rather??

You see no hope and how many terrorist are our great young men killing with the Help of the Iraqi men who Want FREEDOM??

you have no hope where it is full to the top so guess we can't count on you in this fight sissy boy??

Hell even me in a short skirt can shoot streight and kill Terorrist and any one who would try to take My FREEDOM??

You think all is exposed in this chill wind what a fool you are and we can't tell all because people like you will tel the enemy yes they have enternet??and TV

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open The Eyes of the World to their Theart and give them Balls to stand and Fight Amen

PS
Shiloh Daryl Worley

This song says alot this country has been through it and look where we are today after helpping Europe twice?
We are of their Blood and have the same WILL

the 3Ws WE WILL WIN

NEVER FORGET!! BUSH IS GIVIN THE IRAQI PEOPLE A CHANCE THERE IS HOPE BUT IF IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE HE SAID WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!

TNN RIVER RUN!!

PS
You aint been pating ation the z monster was crying this week-end for renforsements it is over there or over here and by your comments better keep it where it is??

Posted by: bonzi at October 19, 2004 10:21 PM

cid here miss you all we may be coming you way?

Part of the American Tribe
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and All who Support them Amen

Could this be the end of the world?

Catherine:

Thank you for asking me to shoot myself. What makes you so rude? Are good manners in debate not something you were taught?

I'm on the side that is against Islam. The policies of the US administration since 9/11 leave a lot to be desired. Pres Bush appears good only in comparison with Kerry, and that is not saying much.

There is more to winning this war (and BTW, this war is not the war in Iraq) then your ability to shoot straight. Your shooting straight is of no use if you cant think straight.

You think all is exposed in this chill wind what a fool you are and we can't tell all because people like you will tel the enemy yes they have enternet??and TV

Thank you again for your kind words.

I'm not the one who is exposing any thing. It is the likes of Pres Bush, who by even admitting the possibility of a sharia Iraq, gives credence and encouragement to Islamists. And who do you think they are more likely to listen to?

DP111;

Are you mad? What was Bush supposed to say after the attacks? "Muslims are evil?"

First, this is not true, second, this incites violence.

How about, "Islam is evil"?

This is true, but when stated by a president it is still likely to incite violence towards innocent Muslims.

The first thing ANY politician must do following an attack is prevent reprisals against innocent people.

"Islam is a religion of peace," is a reasonable compromise for doing this, even though it is not true. A more accurate and equally effective wording might have been; "Most Muslims are peaceful," but no speech writer is perfect.

The second thing any president must do is to build up a coalition, and cooperation from the Muslim world was ESSENTIAL

Where would we be without the help of:

1) the Northern Alliance (removing the Taliban)
2) Pakistan (capturing Al Qaeda operatives, breaking relations with the Taliban)
3) Kuwait (providing bases)
4) Qatar (providing bases)
5) Iraqi National Congress (setting up a provisional government)
6) Saudi Arabia (breaking relations with the Taliban)

What Muslim or Non-Muslim is willing to form an alliance with a country whose president states the truth about Islam?

Get real. Neither India nor Israel are will to declare war on "Islam," even if America is behind them. Both have large Muslim populations within their own borders, and nobody, not even most Muslims, want that kind of a bloodbath.

fuck iraq-lets just say f this place and let the ragheads kill eachother-it is a waste of time-bring our troops home so they can prtect our borders-drop the bomb and leave already

Posted by: resister at October 20, 2004 12:26 AM

AND WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING TO PROTECT YOUSELF AND YOURS NOTHING I BET JUST COMPLAIANING LIKE THOSE GIZZERS STANDING IN LINE KNOWING THAT THE CHILDREN MIGHT NOT HAVE A SHOT ?
WHY DON'T YOU GO DOWN TO THE BORDER AND HELP GAURD IT??

There is more to winning this war (and BTW, this war is not the war in Iraq) then your ability to shoot straight. Your shooting straight is of no use if you cant think straight.

Posted by: DP111 at October 20, 2004 12:29 AM

AGAN WRONG HAVE YOU EVER EVEN SHOT A GUN AINT MUCH THINKING JUST KEEP EYES OPEN AND HANDS STEADY IT IS AN ACTION MOVE NOT A THINKING ONE??

AS FAR AS BEING RUDE SO WHAT ? I HAVE BEEN READING ALL THE CRAP FROM THE MUSSIS AND LIBS AND AM SICK WHAT DO THEY SAY CALL A SPADE A SPADE?

THIS IS NOT A WAR IN IRAQ SO YOU WERE NOT OF THE 70% OF AMERICANS WHO WANT TO TAKE OUT SADDAM[FOUND IN A HOLE DON'T SHOT I AM A YELLOW COWARD] YOU WERE PART OF THE CROWD THAT WAS MARCHING IN THE STREET HATE AMERICA CROWD?

YOU SAY THE FIGHT IS NOT WHERE WE ARE FIGHTING IT SO MR. BIG SHOT WHERE IS IT?

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AMEN

FG wrote:

>

Indeed. Many still accuse Bush of lying to the American Public on the WMD's and don't "see for themselves" that the CIA and international intelligence agencies passed us all the ficticious information.

I suppose it is a matter of what you choose to see, and what they choose to let you see. Boots on the ground in Iraq is the best deterrent to terrorism on our shores, whether you see it or not. Do you think Bush actually hopes they vote for Sharia? I doubt it. I doubt he honestly knew that they didn't have any massive WMD's either.

FG also wrote:

>

Islamists (whatever the PC term of the day is) are clearly the enemy. You have a choice of many countries to fight them in. Why not take the one that is most in need of a regime change? Why not take one that is CENTRALLY located on the map? Why not take one that has lots of oil? What is your idea of resources?

I should have previewed that post. I am not as familiar with the medium as I thought.

Insert the text that FG wrote:

1.

"I can see for myself what the situation in Iraq is and I can tell it isn't what the administration is claiming it to be."

2.

"we need all of resources to fight the real enemy, not one we manufactured."

Posted by: RevBenny at October 20, 2004 12:57 AM

SORRY JUST READ F.G. POST AGAIN AND DID NOT SEE WHAT YOU GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR? WAS THIS ON ANOTHER PAGE OR WHAT DO THEY SAY THREAD?

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY AMEN

Rublev:

Does one always have to go from one extreme to the other? Did I advocate that Pres Bush say that 'Islam is evil'. What was not required was the continuous mantra of 'Islam is peace'. When it is obvious that the ideology of islam itself is the cause of the Jihad, it is patently absurd to praise islam. 'Islam is peace' under these circumstances, is not a reasonable compromise by any stretch of the imagination. The result of this obfuscation is the inanely named 'War on terror'.

Then there is the question of a grand coalition. There is no coalition except a very reluctant and passive acceptance by some muslim nations that they have to go along until such a time they can be rid of the coercion.

Northern alliance - they would side with the devil to get rid of the Taliban. Once rid of these with the assistance of the US, they will soon enough turn their guns on the US. That is the history of Afghanistan.

Pakistan - offers up a few al qaeda thugs in exchange for billions of dollars, whenever it is beginning to feel the pinch.

Kuwait - in deadly fear of Saddam, and would do anything to be rid of Saddam. However, at present, most Kuwaitis are anti-American.

Israel and India - Did I say that they were going to declare war on Islam? What I did say was to they were prepared to go after the Jihadis. The US strained might and main to force them to excercise 'restraint'.

So America sacrificed clarity in war objectives for such a coalition. The price it has to pay is the inevitable lack of clear support in even the US, where around 50% of the population support the candidacy of Kerry. And the result? No clear aim where the war is headed and confusion in the ranks of the body politik.

No way to run a war.

Catherine:

Stick to shooting guns.

Then there is the question of a grand coalition. There is no coalition except a very reluctant and passive acceptance by some muslim nations that they have to go along until such a time they can be rid of the coercion.

No way to run a war.

Posted by: DP111 at October 20, 2004 01:17 AM

SO IF SOMEONE BREAKS IN YOUR HOUES DO YOU WAIT FOR THE POLICE OR DO YOU TAKE ACTION?

I SEE MANY LIKE YOU WHO ARE FULL OF HOT AIR WHEN IT IS CRUNCH TIME YOU ARE IN THE CORNER SAYING PROTECT ME WELL WE MIGHT JUST NOT BE THERE?

THIS IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND LOOK AT WHAT HAPPEN IN SOMILA WITH ALL THOSE PEICES IN THE PIE COULDEN'T MAKE UP THEIR MIND SO GOOD AMERICANS DIED AND THEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE TIME MADE US LOOK LIKE COWARDS AND RAN AWAY !!

THE TIME FOR RUNNING IS OVER AND WE CAN KICK THEIR ASS NO PROBLEM IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO ARE PC?

THE IRAQIS WERE SHOOTING AT OUR PLANES....THEY WERE NOT IN THEIR BOX WE KNOW THAT SADAM WAS IN ON THE 1993 WTC BOMBING DON'T BELIVE ME LOOK IT UP?

KERRY DIVED THIS COUNTRY IN 1971 AND IS TRYING TO DO IT AGAIN AND LIKE BILL CILTON HE HAS PEOPLE WHO WANT POWER WITH HIM AND WILL STOP AT NOTHING LIEING IS EASY FOR THEM !!

REMEMBER NO TAXES ON THE MIDDLE CLASS AND REMEMBER THE BLUE DRESS LIES LIES LIES?

THE FIGHT IS THE WHOLE OF AMERICA...

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE EYES OF THE WORLD TO THEIR THREAT AND GIVE THEM BALLS TO STAND AND FIGHT AMEN

Posted by: DP111 at October 20, 2004 01:17 AM

SO YOU WANT TO FIGHT THE PAKIS AND THE PEOPLE OF KUWAIT AND ALL MULSUM COUNTRY'S AND YOU LEFT OUT N.KOREA ?

i REMEMBER THE OH!MY! WHEN BUSH SAID THE 3 AXIS COUNTRY'S THE LEFT WENT "NUTS" HOW COULD HE SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND TO N.KOREA WHICH BIL CILTON FIXED?

DP YOUR DOG DON'T HUNT!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTORY TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OVER HERE AND OVER THERE AMEN

PS
Posted by: RevBenny at October 20, 2004 01:02 AM
WHEN I PUT THE POST TOGETER AND CAN NOW SEE THAT THE GOOD PART WAS YOUR THOUGHTS!!

Catherine:

First Catherine, I'm just as angry as you are. I've not stopped being angry since that fateful morning on 11th September. We are on the same side and so stop thinking of me as the enemy.

I have been aware of the threat of Islam for over 30 years and knew that it was going to hit us soon. Longer then anyone I know anyway. I have warned everyone I knew, of the dangers of Islam for a long time.

I appreciate your honest and staightforward way to confront a burglar. But we are dealing with an ideology and not a burglar. You cannot shoot this type of burglar. This is what this site about; to shoot the ideology.

You bring up what happened in Vietnam and Somalia. The reason why America was defeated in Vietnam was not that it lost the war 'there', but it lost the war in America. And so it is now. In any war where a democratic nation is involved, one has to have a very clear majority of the population, backing the war. When that does not happen, the war is lost at home and then lost abroad. That is what happened in Vietnam. And there is great danger that it may now happen again. The worst aspect of this is that even if GWB wins, he will be aware that he has no clear mandate to continue this war any further then Iraq at the most. The WoT may come to a stop in Iraq. As far as I'm concerned that it will not be a victory for us. And if it is not a victory for us, then it is victory for Jihad; for that is how it will be portrayed in the islamic world, that a few bands of mujahideen brought the great superpower to a stop in Iraq. Such will be the propaganda value of this, that it will invigorate the Jihad no end, to the detriment of all.

Catherine:
I'm no PC nut. I simply recognise that PoMO America is incapable at this moment in time, to wage a war where one needs to change the attitudes of the enemy.

Take care.

DP
Yes we are on the same page but have a little Faith know that this sounds funny but pray that the Terrorist remain stupid Of course we will get hit again and this will charge the will the Islamic Terrorist will Not win??

Some things have to have baby steps and look how far we have come? Yes we have taken Giant steps and now Russia is on our side and this is a good thing can we trust each other 100% maybe not but we can work together just like Bill & Hilliary do?

You have been yelling fire for what do you say 30 years well the Fires are being put out! This is a really big Fire?

These are like huge gangs remember hilter was a fire that we Put out not in a year longer are his follors around yea you bet But Freedom changed the Germans?

Freedom in Iraq will Change the Middle East and look at Afghanistan Voting women in a mulsum country?

there are 3Ts Things Take Time?

We Will Win!!

I know it is hard when you see the Fire we are moving to put them out!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom and Courage to stay the course to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat Amen

"Here is the inevitable consequence of the Administration's unwillingness to look at the source of Islamic radicalism. A true "war on terror" would never accept this outcome, because it would recognize that Islamic "fundamentalism" is precisely what leads to "terror."

I agree! However, looking at the source of islamic radicalism has grave political consequences. It is more expedient to sacrifice nations and peoples including one's own -- than it is to look, and name such a source.

Doing that takes "moral courage" of a kind, that no modern Western leader dares muster in making policy decisions.

"Morality" in any guise is such an dirty word in the West and is perhaps better left to others.

Don't be one bit surprised when Sharia rears its ugly face in America.

When that day comes, just watch the schools scramble to accomidate this beast in their classrooms in the name of multiculturalism.

The politicians will trip over one another to follow and threaten to withhold US taxpayer dollars from state funding -- should complience be too slow.

As long as the football games are still on the sports channels; the beer keeps flowing (temporarily); and the little plastic American flags made in China are plentiful on the fourth of July; the soccer mom's and the drunken "super patriots" will not see a problem with the idea sharia in the land.

"Awe, what the hell," they will say, "it's not do nuttin to hurt my way of life and dah freedoms I fought for."

Aw, DP111, what are you worried about?

The Shadow Government is still in charge, isn't it? :-)

...sorry about the spelling ... its been a very long night, day? whatever it is right now.

Going to sleep!

Hi everyone, and welcome to catherine's zany Liberal/Jihad Watch.

WE ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT,RIGHT!!! JUST LOOK UP AT ME IN MI SHORT SKIRT OOOOH WEEEBABY. KJ IS SO CONFUSTED DURG ADDICKT???? YABBA DABBA DOO! OINK, OINK, MU!!!!!

[insert 10-page paste from newsmax.com]

GOD BLES AMERICA''S FIGHINTG FORCES, EXCEPT THE ONES THAT COME HOME AND TRY TO SAVE GI LIVES! AND TH E ONEF THAT BECOME DEMONCRATS!!!!

PART OF THE ARMEICAN TRIBE!!

SQIRRLEY. AMEN!!!!

Seriously, Catherine. The rotten grammar and 10th grade discussions are embarassing me, for you. Did I read right, that you are mad at the gizzers (geezers?)? So why do you hate America's greatest generation? For the same reason Grover Norquist does?

Yeah, the plans were laid on Bill Clinton's watch. So why weren't they carried out until 9 months after he left office?

Some people say, "Thank God Bush is president! Can you imagine how Gore would've handled the terrorist attacks of 9-11?" to which I can honsetly say, "Probably the same way he and Clinton handled the terrorist attacks of 12-31, Y2k."

Does anyone want to bet that the terrorists WON'T attack us the same day the "lib'rul media" shows the 1-hour infomercial for W, the anti-Kerry movie? You know, the one where he DARED to try to bring our troops home from Vietnam? Kerry was risking his life testifying before the senate, trying to stop sending American boys to the meatgrinding jungle, while Dub was living a pampered life of ease in his Chickenhawk National Guard day care.

Think about it... if YOU were a Jihadi terrorist, intent upon making Bush look bad/electing Kerry, what better day to strike?

So. Any takers?

And would that be like the rights of the People of Rewanda? or the People in the Sudan?
You confuse me? What has the UN or the leage of nations ever done?
We havee the oil for Food WAIT A MIN. THE WERE ON THE TAKE?? OH! YEA! THEY ARE NOW RIPING OFF THE IRAQI PEOPLE??
Above posted by Catherine.

I think you are the one who is confused. The Muslim fundamentalists won the Algerians won the election through the democratic process. They were denied the government. Hitler and the Nazis were voted into the the government by democratic process. If Muslims voted for an Islamic Sharia based government which persecutes non-Muslims and they win, does that make the democracy right? Ultimately it is freedom and human rights that should be the criteria, not whether the country is "democratic" or not.

The UN Charter of human rights was written before UN was hijacked by the third world nations. And BTW if you bothered to read the CIA Duelfer's report concerning UN oil for food program, you will find White American businessmen also benefited from the scam.

(sotto voice) Oh sweet Jesus, Catherine has a gun.

>While it is appropriate to disagree with the
>CONTENT of another's post, it's considered bad
>form here at JW/DW to criticize the FORM that
>self-expression takes, especially as regards
>grammar, spelling, typos, etc.

I think what I said was appropriate. Asking someone to communicate clearly is hardly being unreasonable. If someone doesn't have the time, energy, or thought it takes to put something down that is actually understandable then why should I feel like something could be gained by my taking my time reading it? How your message is received is in a large part determined by its delivery.

Sorry if I prodded your sacred cow or whatever metaphor applies here. You folks really take the cake.

f.g.

Democracy is democracy, but Islam is something else again.

If, as some here are predicting, the whole "democracy in iraq" project fails at least we can hope that some western leaders learn the lesson and learn it well.

If we're faced with useless tin-pot islamic dictatorships blustering and threatening what awful things they're going to do to us all because some invented god says it's ok, let's not worry about bringing them democracy or free speech or anything else that we have struggled for centuries to attain for ourselves, why bother?

Somalia is the example that comes to mind, a group of people who have simply failed to create a modern state, and returned to their true nature, merely a territory occupied by warring clans and tribes, society as it was for most of the world throughout history. If the arabs in particular are happy with their lot, so be it, just as long as we demonstrate to them that any attempt to destroy our societies will bring destruction and de-stabilisation down on their heads, and they'll have even more of nothing than what they have now.

Saoirse writes:

"failed to create a modern state, and returned to their true nature"

It reminds me a lot of the American Indian.

Tell REZA:

"You're great grandchildren will own casinos in Bagdad."

f.g.:

Some posters at JW are not native English speakers. All have varying degrees of education and communication skills.

For you to associate those issues with the value of an individual's contribution to this forum seems shallow in the extreme. Let's hope you're not as nitpicky when the real fighting begins.

It's PASSION, COMMITMENT and PATRIOTISM I want at my back, helping me to defend this civilization, not a well-turned phrase.

Total clarity is not compatible with politics. That role is best left to professors, journalists, and pajamahideen (internet pundits).

Politicians have to make alliances with unsavory characters to get things done. Consequently, they cannot tell the whole truth to the public lest the risk alienating those who are in the best position to help. You may belittle the token cooperation we get from Muslim countries, but it all adds up, and it sure beats fighting them. Perhaps you can call it our version of "taquiya."

In the short run, we are at war with radical Islam. In the long run, we are at war with the heart of Islam. Had Bush called it the "war on radical Islam" from the start, Pakistan may not have made its critical decision to withdraw support from the Taliban.

For all you criticize Bush for his "lack of clarity," his actions speak larger than his words. After all, it is Bush who appointed Daniel Pipes to the Peace Institute. It was Bush who cut off the Whitehouse's relations with CAIR. It was Bush who ignored calls from Muslim-American organizations and some democrats to fire General Boykin for "offending Muslim sensibilities." The list goes on...

With regards to our current conflict, Bush has pushed the envelope of moral clarity farther than any American politician. That is EXACTLY why the left hates him so much.

How many times have you heard Bush denounced for his "Manichean" sense of ethics? This is hardly the epithet you hear against people who lack moral clarity.

I could not agree with you more saoirse.

We need to stop buying their f***ing oil and let them revert to their previous state. If we could manage to pull that rug from out under them we'd do the world an immeasurable good and them and rather measurable blow.

A nation's people have to rise up and take control of their own destiny. I put it to you that the "Arab Nation" has already made its decision and their uprising demonstrates their governmental preference. Anarky, death, and despots. Let them have it their way and just sanction the living hell out of them. Why do business with this people at all? That's where a real "Stand" could be made by this country. Stop buying anything from these countries.

f.g.

FG,

That would be the logical step if they do vote Sharia.

I think we should stop sending food and medicine as well in that case. Let them pray for sustenance and healing. It is an ancient technique known a "Banishment" or "Shunning," and works as well as most military action. It seems cruel, but they will be given the opportunity to draw their own lot.

I don't see any reason to pursue that course if they choose Democracy, and choose to live in the 21st century. I do foresee the need of some countries to pursue the resources that are available in the Middle East, like India, whose burgeoning population could become an even larger danger due to the inability to sustain themselves.

We may simply be coming to the end of the great "imperial project" begun by the european powers way back in the 19th century.

Amongst all the land and resources grabbing that went on, there were enlightened souls who did actually believe that their civilisation could bring some benefits to those less materially advanced.

Love 'em or loathe 'em, many Victorian era statesmen believed that for all the ills of their own society, it was preferable to the stone-age tribalism that much of the world lived in (cultural relativists take the little blue pill and have a nice lie down, you'll soon feel better).

They forgot that, to use this country as an example, it took the Roman conquest of Britain, and about 1500 years of war and bloodshed before we had moved from a warring tribal village society to being able to s**t indoors and have a parliament, and maybe another 100 years before indoor toilets and being able to vote were available to everyone.

So maybe the hard uncomfortable truth is that some people want to go forward along the rocky road of history, and others are more than happy with where they've stopped on that road.

I think we simply have to make sure that those who have stopped aren't allowed to prevent the rest of us from carrying on, whatever we have to do to convince them.

>Some posters at JW are not native English speakers.
>All have varying degrees of education and
>communication skills.

Well of course I understand that.
We're talking Catherine here. Do you mean to tell me that English is a second language to her? Well is it?

>For you to associate those issues with the value
>of an individual's contribution to this forum
>seems shallow in the extreme

So if someone’s sentences are so scrambled that their meaning is lost ... I should what? If their thoughts are incoherent ... I should what? Get real and get off it.

Look, if you want to communicate with me do so. If someone wants to preach to the monitor in their own personal dialect then they can do so, just don't expect me to understand it or to spend a great deal of time trying to translate it.

f.g.

Democracy is democracy, But we are a Republic !!

The Lib attack from Hell Kj you say Kerry is so brave?

What about his own words form an interview on Larry King Live after the Attacks on 9/11/2001 where he talks about sitt-en with Dasheal and others and being dumb struck for what was it 45 min.s had passed before they were told to leave and what were his words and we reliased we could just not think?

It's PASSION, COMMITMENT and PATRIOTISM I want at my back, helping me to defend this civilization, not a well-turned phrase.

Posted by: CGW at October 20, 2004 12:48 PM

Amen!!

Noticed that f.g. did not come back to the RevBenny they always try to pick on the weak well this Gal aint WEAK!!

Posted by: Rublev at October 20, 2004 12:52 PM
Very well put!!

What do these libs want for us to nuke all these countries boy the whinning would really start and KJ AL Gore would have done the same as Bill Cliton well is that bomb an asprin factory after 9/11/2001 that wont do time to fight this over there!! !

October 20, 2004
For those of you crying about the southern border? Where were you in 99-00 when the border control caught over 100,000 illegal caught in AZ alone? Where were you when 14 died in the dessert and their families sued for 43 million dollars where were you? Where are you with the churches setting up water stations to help the illegal sink in?
Many People go for fun in the Dunes [40,000] why don’t they do something useful to help protect the Borders? OH! YEA! It’s all about ME.ME.ME.!!
I want FREE Drugs? That is not enough now I want FREE Health care? That is not enough I want as much time off as I want and I want you to pay me for it?? This is like the People Who Opra gave a Car to but were mad because the had to pay the TAX?? No Thankful just ME.ME.ME.??
This is not the America I know! Or want to Know SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/19/145523.shtml

Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2004
Judge in Michigan Gives Democrats Another Coup for Vote Fraud
Another Clinton appointee, another victory for vote fraud.
U.S. District Judge David Lawson today ignored the Department of Justice's reasoning and decreed that Michigan must count provisional ballots even when cast in the wrong precinct(s). The ruling against fair elections is a major victory for the Democratic Party and the Democrat group NAACP, which had sued for the fraud-friendly fiat.

Who you vote for counts look at all the Judges who have let terrorist back on the Streets [i.e. the Judges who did not deport the 20,000 OTM caught and released][OTMs other then Mexicans]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/19/163446.shtml
Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2004
American Flag 'Outlawed' by Edwards
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Vacuous veep wannabe John Edwards has banned the American flag at campaign appearances, according to a left-wing weekly.

Yea I bet they will protect us from terrorist??

More Terrorist dead today in Iraq!!

Raining in Calf this is good their water table was low! Remember this time of year for the last 10 we have seen all those Fires??

French crack down on terrorist supporters? Yea 2 more girls in head scarf’s?

Apt. Building in Seco Main Blows Up? Remember all the Somalis?

Armani singer and mother and daughter dies in house from gas leak?

Yea the Democrats want to TAX small Business Remember Microsoft was a small business once?

Ohio they are talking about unemployment rate How many are the 30,000 Somalis in Ohio and all the illegal who are there?

Kerry & Clinton want to sue Pharmaceutical companies ? Where do you think you get your drugs [flue shot] from would you keep making something that some lawyer will come along and take everything you worked hard for? Kerry picked a Lawyer who got rich from suing Doctors? Look at how many Doctors have left N.C.?

Kerry who says we have to pass a Global Test to Protect ourselves and we need to get back to where terrorism is just a nuisance I guess he means like the bombing in Beirut or the bombing of Kobar towers or was he talking about the bombing of the USS Coal or was he talking about the nuisance of the 2 embassy bombings in Africa?
Will do last week-end update later??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat the Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat Amen

f.g.
Your Problem is you can't see the nose on your face you say you want to fight the enemy but you don't know who the enemy is well I did not get on a plane and Crash it into a Building in NYC it Was mulsums.

As we say in the south shit or get off the pot!

Your dog don't hunt you came to just Bash?
But what are you Bashing those who might one day save your ass or because you are such a snont might just keep walking?

This is the Libs biggest fault? Just pretend you are above everybody?
I don't care what you think just like I don't care about what the European think Cause I lived there when Bill Cliton was President and they did not like him either We had Bomb threats and what is called orange alert we stayed at??

JK and I have a fued because he loves the Blue Dress??

Now someone wrote something about an American Business men caught up in the Oil For Food Yea your Right the Name that comes to Mind is RICH YEA THE GUY BILL CLITON PARDONED???

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2004/main051704.htm

Oil-for-Food scandal:
The French Connection
by Judi Mcleod
May 17, 2004

http://www.michigandaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/09/27/4157ed6132d7b

Chechen struggle, jihad link emerges

September 27, 2004

MOSCOW (AP) — The brutality and meticulous planning of the school hostage-taking and other recent terror attacks in Russia have focused new attention on the growing influence of Islamic extremists over Chechen rebels and raised suspicions of a global terror connection.

Yea there is a connection it is MONSTER ISLAMIC TERRORIST!!

Bush, Putin tout new era
May 25, 2002 Posted: 6:45 PM EDT (2245 GMT)
ST. PETERSBURG, Russia (CNN) -- One day after President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a landmark nuclear arms reduction treaty, the men continued to tout a new era of cooperation between their nations.
"The treaty we signed says a lot about nuclear arms. It speaks about the need for peace," Bush told a packed auditorium Saturday at St. Petersburg University.
"But it also says the Cold War is over. And America and Russia need to be and will be friends for the good of the world."
Under the treaty, nuclear arsenals will be cut by roughly two-thirds over 10 years. (Full story)
Bush arrived at the Kremlin in Moscow on Thursday, his second stop in a weeklong European tour.
The war on terrorism and trade were two key topics discussed by the leaders, they told the crowd.
"We've got a new war to fight together. We're joined to fight against blood-thirsty killers," Bush said.
"These people hate freedom. They hate multi-ethnic societies. They can't stand religion."

Yes we are on the Ball there is a lot of info out there not just in you box?

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM[I MEAN ALL] AMEN

Kj and Fg: Just don't respond to Catherine in any way. I never do, I don't even read her posts.

>Noticed that f.g. did not come back to the
>RevBenny they always try to pick on the
>weak well this Gal aint WEAK!!

What are you talking about? I’m not “picking” on you Catherine. revbenny didn't say anything for me to come back to him about did he? I wasn’t paying attention I guess. Let me go back and … I mean what can I say? He was talking about the idea of about taking over a central country and so on, really now. We don't need that. People who talk so big about taking over this or that or invading here or there rarely have been in harms way themselves and find the blood of others easily sacrificed. Doing what revbeeny suggested in that earlier post is exactly what Saddam said America would do. To the Arabs in the Middle East we are making a power grab and doing what their leaders have told we’d do, or so it seems to them. No wonder we can’t get through to them.

A continued military presence in the Middle East is undesirable from many standpoints the least of which is the perpetual animosity this would generate. That isn’t the solution. Just look at the state of affairs over there now.

This is really a battle for hearts and minds. We can kill them all day and they'll just pop out more. We have to change the mindset of these people. If it has to be done with force then that will be on their heads but it has to be done.

Look, I apologize if I've hurt your feelings Catherine. You know those were just suggestions: If you would post links instead of the articles it cuts down on the bandwidth and disk space consumed with files that are already accessible on the web elsewhere. That is just good net form also. You know, when you don’t post the sources of your material it makes it difficult to weigh their worth. Expressing yourself more effectively isn’t that difficult given the tools readily available on the web. There are several methods to spell and grammar check almost auto-magically both on and off-line now. If your intention is to communicate try to make your communications as palatable as possible if you want them received. If you just want to vent and dominate you obviously wouldn’t care about such things.

Neither Liberals, Cons, or Neo-Cons are the enemy. Islamic terror is the enemy.

FG,

People who have the inability to read what was clearly written, and understand when questions are directed specifically at them, should not be complaining about a few misspelled words.

I asked you:

"Why not take the one that is most in need of a regime change? Why not take one that is CENTRALLY located on the map? Why not take one that has lots of oil? What is your idea of resources?"

And you understand that to mean:

"He was talking about the idea of about taking over a central country and so on?"

I bet Catherine could tell you what was asked more clearly.

One of the benefits of a Western victory over Islam is that the Moslem population of the world will be free to think for themselves if they so choose, and to whatever level they have the ability to do so. If we try to deny the right of others to express themselves, well or poorly, then we should stay home and think through that position a little more throughly; and at the same time, it doesn't help to suggest that judgemental and tempremental types shouldn't be allowed to fume. We have a forum worth defending, and part of that is in our tolerance for those whose skills are other than our own.

I, for one, wish people would address the topics Spencer posts here on a daily basis. Consider that his work allows us the chance to grasp in detail the nature of our problem with a sizable per centage of the world's population, that his work is not simply interesting but is vital to our lives and also, though it's a lesser concern, rightly so, Spencer's work brings into clear focus the destruction of islam against its victims: The billion-plus Moslems whose lives are suffocated and blotted out by the intellect-destroying veils of tribalism, peasant idiocies, and village traditionalism. If we stray from the topics Spencer posts, I feel that we waste not only our time but his. And as bad, even worse, we lose the lives of millions, perhaps a billion Moslems who have very little hope of saving themselves from their own ignorance by their own efforts. Spencer's posts give us the opportunity to act either collectively or, less pointfully, independently, on specific issues that mean the difference between life and death for Moslem individuals. Trying to discourage others from writing is not helpful, and is in my opion, contrary to our basic values, values we might try exporting for the benefit of our intellectually enslaved Moslem cousins. If they can't think for themselves, either the mullah and imams do it for them or we do. It's not a matter of sentimentality, of philobarbarism, or cultural relativity: if we don't act on behalf of Moslems, they will die, not just in dozens or hundreds as they do now, but in the millions and millions because in their ignorance they will provoke a storm from the West that will reduce them to a sand diorama. Spencer's posts bring these problems to the fore, and if we look at what he posts, if we discuss it clearly, we might save not just ourselves but the majority of the Islamic world.

I like to think that those who post opinions I disagree with make my life fuller in that I have the right and ability to disagree with them. We, even Moslems, should have that opportunity. If it comes to force, to enslaving the Islamic world and forcing intellectual freedom on them in spite of the wishes of the ulema and the reaction of conformity to tradition, I say let's wind up and pitch till Islam strikes out. Yes, enslave them. By main force, crush the Islamic world and kill those whose rebellion against freedom is a crime against Humanity. To kill peope who disagree with me is off the board. But to kill those who will not allow others to disagree with me is morally imperative. It's called war. It saves lives. Thanks to Spencer, we can discuss such things here for the eventual benefit of the Islamic population. We have talking points daily, and there are numerous opportunities to form among ourselves committees with the purpose of organizing on a larger scale.

Slavery for dialectic. Walker for Socrates.

If you agree with that I'd rather hear from someone with objections, 'cause I know I'm not perfect. I welcome comments from Catherine or anyone else, but I do wish to have those comments in some way relate to something Spencer has posted for us. Moslems too should be thanking God Spencer posts his notices for us. They can't. You can.

f.g.:

"If someone wants to preach to the monitor in their own personal dialect then they can do so, just don't expect me to understand it or to spend a great deal of time trying to translate it."

No one asked you to read, translate, try to understand or even express your own opinion.

Neither did anyone ask you to critique someone else's personal style of expression.

As I stated before, it is a simple matter for you to just skip over Catherine's posts. You are here by your own choice and are free to participate as you will, but don't deny that same right to others.

revbenny I understood the question. "Why not take over the one that is most in need of regime change? Why not take one that has lots of oil?"

Because it won't work that's why. Oh, I understand exactly what you're trying to say. But there are major problems with that. You won't be able to hold it and you won't be able to produce any oil if you don't have the population in control. Guess what, we aren't going to have control over there ... ever. Let's not even go into the moral dilemmas involved.

Your idea of "Banishment" or "Shunning,” is pretty much right with my thinking. Which is more or less what the UN was doing with sanctions. A non-military solution of some kind is required. We can’t blow this problem up I’m afraid, as much as I’d like to.

Good grief,

f.g.

Ok, here is your post, I'll do the question/answer thing.

>>FG wrote
>>Indeed. Many still accuse Bush of lying to the American Public on the WMD's and don't "see for themselves"
>>that the CIA and international intelligence agencies passed us all the ficticious information.
This is obviously true. Bush is the boss though. He is ultimately responsible. You may see it differently.
>I suppose it is a matter of what you choose to see, and what they choose to let you see.
>Boots on the ground in Iraq is the best deterrent to terrorism on our shores, whether you see it or not.
That is your subjective opinion revberry, any data on this is very immature and it will take some time to see what the truth is about that. It does seem to get a lot of Americans killed and injured though doesn’t it? There has to be a better way. I disagree with you on this point.
>Do you think Bush actually hopes they vote for Sharia?
>I doubt it. I doubt he honestly knew that they didn't have any massive WMD's either.
I’ve never suggested he would do such a thing. I said he should tell them if they do that then they are voting out a democratic government. That is the truth isn’t it? Voting in Shaia kind of negates the whole operation. And honestly, I don’t expect to say or do anything about this topic.
FG also wrote:
>Islamists (whatever the PC term of the day is) are clearly the enemy.
>You have a choice of many countries to fight them in
I don’t see the sense in this argument. Somebody said that on TV I guess and it gets parroted to me all the time. Engaging terrorists in another country actually does very little to hamper terrorist cells operating in this country. I mean that is obvious isn’t it? The most effective way to protect “this” country is in the area of homeland defense and First Responder preparedness. More importantly we need to go after these organizations money and supply lines. Fighting these crazy individuals in the streets is going to be a never ending battle. This is not a war of attrition.
>Why not take the one that is most in need of a regime change?
>Why not take one that is CENTRALLY located on the map?
>Why not take one that has lots of oil? What is your idea of resources?
Well those are all sound strategic decisions if you wanted to fight a never-ending war in the Middle East. It won’t work in establishing a peace and it does little to solve the real problem of Islamic terror.

There, was that good enough? If you disagree that is fine by me. I don't have a problem with it.

Have a nice afternoon everybody.

f.g.

Rublev:

Excellent post. I agree completely.