EU Funding of PA Terrorism

Let`s take it a step farther, and say that the Alfred Nobel Prize committee also gave tremendous support to terrorism by legtimizing Yassar Arafat in giving him the Nobel Peace prize.

And the EU will do what exactly about this? I won't hold my breath waiting for their corrections. At least, Condi Rice will be now be reporting actions of the nefarious UNRWA to Congress as part of the recently passed Israeli aid bill:

U.S. Approves New Aid Package to Israel - Janine Zacharia
The U.S. House and Senate approved on Saturday a spending bill for 2005 which includes $2.2 billion in military assistance and $360 million in economic assistance for Israel. It also includes an additional $50 million in refugee resettlement assistance. The bill contains a provision allowing Israel an extra two years to finish using $9 billion in loan guarantees, allowing five years rather than three. The bill also requires the U.S. secretary of state to report to Congress on whether UNRWA employees or facilities have been involved in Palestinian terrorist activities. (Jerusalem Post) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1101097531079&p=1078397702269

Up to now, I have not seen a crisp and clear definition of what constitutes a terrorist, and what distinguishes a terrorist from a freedom fighter.

I do not agree with Palestinians exploding themselves amidst of Israelis, (for sure they would prefer shooting at Israeli soldiers from tanks and helicopters, but they do not have these). BTW: let us not forget that the Palestinian casualties are about 3 times as high as the Israeli ones. However, I can see that Palestinians act in this way because they are desperate, and because they have no other weapons to defend themselves against the systematic and continuing robbing of their land, against the failure of Israel to comply with UN resolutions (and the failure of the rest of the world to enforce these,)against the denial of their rights as citizens etc. etc.

This conflict is not primarily a consequence of religion or of etnicity, but it is a struggle of the suppressed powerless, living under occupation, against the powerful. Both sides choose their way of fighting this struggle. Israel uses its hi-tech weapons, the Palestinians use theirs, lo-tech. Does this make them terrorists, or are they freedom fighters?
tve

Israel uses its hi-tech weapons, the Palestinians use theirs, lo-tech. Does this make them terrorists, or are they freedom fighters?
tve

When they specifically target Israeli civilians, they are clearly terrorists.

This conflict is not primarily a consequence of religion or of etnicity, but it is a struggle of the suppressed powerless, living under occupation, against the powerful.

As soon as I see Cabindans, Tibetans, or Australian aborigines blowing up planes and executing civilians spending their vacations in a cruise ship, then and only then will I give you the benefit of the doubt.

Assuming that your internet handle is an indicative of your nationality, you, as a Spaniard (???) should know better.

Dear tve,

Have a quick look at the detailed statistics of the causalities. If you feel so much for this cause, than please take your time, and have a read. This website has a short summary, and a long full version (about 35 pages). The facts are telling.

The site is:

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439

Mackie says:

"the Alfred Nobel Prize committee also gave tremendous support to terrorism by legtimizing Yassar Arafat in giving him the Nobel Peace prize."

And unfortunately this is why the value of receiving one has been seriously degraded. Believe it or not in 1939 Gertrude Stein (Jewish writer/intellectual) petitioned to have a Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Adolf Hitler! Aint that rich ...

This conflict is not primarily a consequence of religion or of etnicity, but it is a struggle of the suppressed powerless, living under occupation, against the powerful. Both sides choose their way of fighting this struggle. Israel uses its hi-tech weapons, the Palestinians use theirs, lo-tech. Does this make them terrorists, or are they freedom fighters?
tve

Posted by: tve at November 23, 2004 09:25 AM

Good grief, are you for real?!!! What "land" have the Israelis stolen from them?! Have you ever looked at Israel on a map? Have you compared the size of Israel to the surrounding Arab lands?
No conflict in history has been more relevant to "religion" than this one. The so called "freedom fighters" have one goal: to destroy the State of Israel and purge from dar-al-Islam the one and only free, democratic, non-muslim nation in its midst.
Start in 1948 and study the history of this region. You will learn that your poor, pitiful, tormented, persecuted "freedom fighters" are nothing but ruthless barbarians, as are all muslims.

tve says:

"Up to now, I have not seen a crisp and clear definition of what constitutes a terrorist, and what distinguishes a terrorist from a freedom fighter."

So says the moral relativists.

Understand this: just because one side(Palestinian) has more deaths does not mean they are the victims or the ones in the right. It means they are more willing to send their children out as suicide bombers and directly into the conflict for a good photo op to outrage the ignorant readers of ignorant biased drivel in the media. Another fact regarding this is that Palestinians not only count "work accidents" in those statistics but the tens of "collaborators" they murder -- even car accidents.

Saying that the Palestinians are the ones in the right because they have more deaths is like saying, "The loudest is the rightest." ( pardon my grammar)

PS tve:

Who cares what the UN says? Do you even know who, and how corrupt and irrelevant the UN is? It's my personal opinion that the reason we even bother staying in the UN is to keep an eye on these lying, cheating, raping cutthroats. And don't forget that the French, Germans, Russians etal refused to help the US in iraq because it would not be in their 'best interest' -- it would conflict with quietly lining their pockets while the world bitched about how US sanctions hurt Iraqi children. How despicable is that?

This begs the question; Why didn't Muslim countries express their outrage about the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis by Saddam Hussein? Or Yasser Arafat? There wasn't a peep from them. Where is the condemnation of those European and other countries who stole the food out of Iraqi childrens mouths and their medicines for healing them? But how dare America go in and create an environment conducive (we hope) for a democracy of their choosing. If we're the new Nazis, what does that make France?

UN investigates 150 allegations of sex abuse

TUESDAY , 23 NOVEMBER 2004

UNITED NATIONS: The United Nations is investigating about 150 allegations of sexual abuse by UN civilian staff and soldiers in the Congo, some of them recorded on videotape, a senior UN official said yesterday.

The accusations include paedophilia, rape and prostitution, said Jane Holl Lute, an assistant secretary-general in the peacekeeping department.

Lute, an American, said there was photographic and video evidence for some of the allegations and most of the allegations came to light since the spring.

"We are shining a light on this problem in order to determine its scope, and we will not stop there," Lute told a news conference. She did not say if 150 different people were involved but indicated some suspects committed more than one offence.

In May the United Nations reported some 30 cases of abuse among peacekeepers in the northeastern town of Bunia, where half of the soldiers are stationed.

Since then one French soldier was sent home and three UN civilian staff were suspended, with many other cases expected to follow. Reports from the region say soldiers from other nations have also been repatriated to face charges at home.

Jean-Marie Guehenno, the UN undersecretary-general for peacekeeping, went to the sprawling central African country, formally called the Democratic Republic of the Congo, last month. He has promised an overhaul of staff discipline.

The UN internal oversight office is expected to release a report soon on the abuse in Bunia. In addition, the peacekeeping department is sending at least two other teams to Congo to deal with various aspects of the problem, Lute said.

The United Nations has jurisdiction over its civilian staff but troops are contributed by individual nations. Consequently, the world body has only the power to demand a specific country repatriate an accused soldier and punish him or her at home.

The revelations of peacekeeping abuses is usually kept quiet at the United Nations until reporters or individual countries disclose the news, as happened in Cambodia in the early 1990s and later in Somalia, Bosnia and Ethiopia.

In the Congo, the United Nations mission has some 10,800 peacekeepers and some 60 civilian staff, led by an American, William Lacy Swing. The mission has previously released reports of abuses but not details of the ongoing investigation.

Annan on Friday expressed outrage at the conduct of soldiers and civilians in the Congo, saying, "I am afraid there is clear evidence that acts of gross misconduct have taken place."

"This is a shameful thing for the United Nations to have to say, and I am absolutely outraged by it," he said while in Tanzania where Guehenno briefed him.

Annan said the allegations concerned a small number of UN personnel and promised to hold those involved accountable.

"I have long made it clear that my attitude to sexual exploitation and abuse is one of zero tolerance, without exception, and I am determined to implement this policy in the most transparent manner," Annan said.

Tve, here is some more reading for you:

http://icevikings.blogspot.com/2004/11/arafat-butcherer.html

TVE: did you know that Jerusalem is considered Islam's third holiest site? BUT, it is considered Judaism's holiest site. Who should get the land? Would the Muslims be willing to give their holiest site (Mecca) to the Jews? Did you know that the West Bank was once the Kingdom of Judea and Samaria, and that Jewish history on the land goes back much further than Muslim/Arab history. Did you know that the Dome of the Rock was built on top of the destroyed Jewish temple? If you believe Muslims have a right to that land, then you must believe they have a right to conquer the entire planet, and kill anyone that gets in their way. Did you know that over a million Muslim Arabs live in Israel proper, yet the Arabs refer to 200,000 Jews living in the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) as occupation?

TVE:

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine other than the Romans naming the area governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.

Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

The concept of "Palestinians" is one that did not exist until about 1948, when the Arab inhabitants, of what until then was Palestine, wished to differentiate themselves from the Jews. Until then, the Jews were the Palestinians. There was the Palestinian Brigade of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army (at a time when the Palestinian Arabs were in Berlin hatching plans with Adolf Hitler for world conquest and how to kill all the Jews); there was the Palestinian Symphony Orchestra (all Jews, of course); there was The Palestine Post; and so much more.
The Arabs who now call themselves "Palestinians" do so in order to persuade a misinformed world that they are a distinct nationality and that "Palestine" is their ancestral homeland. But they are no distinct nationality at all. They are the same - in language, custom, and tribal and family ties - as the Arabs of Syria, Jordan, and beyond. There is no more difference between the "Palestinians" and the other Arabs of those countries than there is between, say, the citizens of Minnesota and those of Wisconsin.

What's more, many of the "Palestinians", or their immediate ancestors, came to the area attracted by the prosperity created by the Jews, in what previously had been pretty much of a wasteland.

I think it was Winston Churchill who said: "if you say a lie enough it will become the truth".

Jerusalem's importance to the Muslim world is highly debateable. What of all the sites in Iraq, Sunni and Shia?

Daniel Pipes recently wrote an exposition of some length, delving into this. I cannot do it justice here. Suffice it to say, it is doubtful that Mohammed ever spent any time in Jerusalem. It didn't come into the Muslim sphere of influence/control until well after his death.

Perhaps one of the most stunning revelations I found therein: but for the actions of an Austrian Jewish artillery captain, the Dome of the Rock would have been destroyed during a 19th century battle between British forces and Austrian forces, the latter acting under the instructions of their Turk allies.

So much for the love of Muslims for Jerusalem and their own holy sites, let alone those of other denominations, which were badly damaged under Turkish administration.

TVE:

Pre 1948-
Name one leader of this Mythical "Palestine" - who was its president, prime minister or king?

Name one nation that had diplomatic relations with "Palestine."

What was the Currency used by "Palestinians"?
What was the exchange rate compared to the US dollar?

=========================================
Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel?
What would happen if the Israelis gave up their high tech weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day?

But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE!

Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. Arabs have only had control of Israel twice - from 634 until the Crusader invasion in June 1099, and from 1292 until the year 1517 when they were dispelled by the Turks in their conquest.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran. There are vague references to Jerusalem in the Hadiths - stories about Mohammed - that he stopped his night journey at ''the edge'' - at the edge of the Temple mount.

7. King David established the city of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Some Muslims (i.e. those between Israel and Saudi Arabia) pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

My crisp and clear definition of what constitutes a terrorist.

Those who strap bombs onto children to go kill other children, mothers, and families.

Those who kidnap children, then shoot them in back when they try to escape.

Those who cut off hands for thivery or doing drugs.

Those who mutilate young girls.

Those who hang teenagers in the streets because they've offended the court.

The list is long tve. Are these acts not terror to you?

And if one if fighting FOR these things, how could anyone say they are freedom fighters. I don't understand why these lines are grey for you, for anyone.

Freedom Fighters is a propoganda term

Guerrilas attack military targets.
Terrorists attack civilian targets.

Succint enough for you?

tve posts: I can see that Palestinians act in this way because they are desperate, and because they have no other weapons to defend themselves against the systematic and continuing robbing of their land, against the failure of Israel to comply with UN resolutions (and the failure of the rest of the world to enforce these,)against the denial of their rights as citizens etc. etc.

History lesson/ON:

#1) tve is referring to UN Security Council Resolution 242 (1967):
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/un242.htm
which states:
"...that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which SHOULD include the application of BOTH the following principles:
1) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict
2) Termination of ALL claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of EVERY State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries FREE FROM THREATS OR ACTS OF FORCE..."

This means the Palestinians are expected to respect and acknowledge the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence (THE EXISTANCE) of Israel and to refrain from threats or acts of force. This is a TWO-WAY commitment.

#2) The first UN Resolution in regards to the issue of post-Mandate Palestine (which was under British Occupation following the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire, which had ruled Palestine for several centuries up to that point) is UN Resolution 181 - the 1947 Partition Plan that sought to PEACEFULLY resolve the conflicting national aspirations of the Jewish and Arab Palestinians. As we all know, the Arabs chose to defy UNSCR 181 and invade the nascent Israeli state that declared independence following the expiration of the British Mandate. So it was the ARABS who failed to comply with UNSCR 181, not the Israelis. Had the Arabs complied, there possibly would have never been the 1967 War and subsequently, UNSCR 242.
#3) Going back further, the land that today is Israel was settled 3000 years ago by the HEBREWS. To drive this point home, it was the Jews, not the Arabs, who were conquered by Rome in the 1st Century AD and driven from their ancestral lands. The name Palestine, incidentally, is derived from the region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were NOT Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They did not speak Arabic. They had NO connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs.
#4) The Arab/Mohammaden conquest of Palestine did not occur until 634 AD. For the next 1314 years, the Muslims/Arabs subjected the indigenous Jews (and Christians)to massacres, forced deportations and all the other assorted human rights abuses associated with the subjugation, oppression and humiliation of the Islamic abomination that is dhimmitude (read Bat Ye'or "Islam and Dhimmitude - it's in the 'Books' section of this blog). I've often contemplated, were it not for the arrogance, bigotry and violence of the Muslim Arabs, the Jews would have never felt it necessary to establish a state separate from the Arabs. Unfortunately, centuries of murder and oppression necessitated this split.

History lesson/OFF.

Your contentions that this conflict is not primarily a consequence of religion or of ethnicity, and that the wealth, power and weaponry of the combatants somehow defines the nature of the conflict and the combatants has no basis in fact. It is merely the propaganda of the perpetrator attempting to portray itself as the victim. The current state of Arab Palestine is directly attributable the intolerance and militaristism of the Arabs, and the Palestinian Arabs have most certainly suffered for it. Hopefully, the Palestinian Arabs will be better served by their future leadership - if they continue to choose war over peace, intolerance over coexistance, devestation over prosperity, the plight of the Palestinian Arabs will never improve.

To the dismay of one of the world's most notorious dhimmis, Michel Sabbah:

"Christians in Palestine Concerned About Their Future"

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=61930

tve:

And there you have it in a nutshell!

Israeli parents protect their children and raise them to cherish life and aspire to be a contribution to society.

Palestinian parents raise their children to yearn for death while killing as many Jews as possible. They used to make quite a pretty penny for it too before the nasty Americans captured Uncle Saddam. Just think, if you had a family with two or more boys you could've made $50,000 or more and retired from the olive grove early ...

well, a lot of reactions, thats for sure', and more are coming in while I'm writing. I'm not Shakespeare, moreover I have a job, so I cannot answer all of your comment and remarks, but here are a few of my thoughts. Note, unless somebody writes something that really strikes me as relevant, I'll not post any more remarks on this one. But I'll read your reactions.

1) The Israeli PR is much better than the palestinian one, especially in the USA, less so in Europe. This explains a lot, especially of the very one-sided view a lot of americans have.

2) To alex221166
The fact that cabindans, tibetans or aboriginals (or USA indians) do not fight (anymore) for their rights does not rob the Palestinians of their rights to fight. One could argue that the Tibetans are still fighting the Chinese, but they have remarkably little success. The same argument could apply to the US independance struggle against england.

3) To Gloria:
Interesting site, which fails to convince me. Who does the counting, who defines who's a combattant on the Palestinian side. If I infer correctly, (almost) all board members are Israeli's. Where's the balance?

4) To Susan P., to Buck
History is important, although history that happened millenia ago is irrelevant. Nevertheless: who lived in Palestine (I mean the area W of the Jordan river) before the Jewish conquest.
Recent history:
Before 1948, there was no state of Israel, the area was mainly inhabited by Arabs (which we now call Palestinains) and Jews, the number of latter increasing by immigration. This already gave problems at that time.
In 1948 the Jews conquered the land which is now called Israel, and expelled great numbers of Palestinians. May of these are still living in refugee camps in Jordan.
In 1967 the Jews conquered a lot more land, most of which has been returned (notably to Egypt). Still under Israeli control are the so-called West Bank and the Gaza strip
From the 1970 onwards, Israel began to expropriate Palestinians, and build jewish settlements on the West bank and the Gaza strip. This process is ongoing, and is an important cause of palestinian anger (legitimately so).

5) To Kemaste
A) you're right, legitimacy cannot be derived from numbes of casualties. Nevertheless, Israel succeeds in getting enormous attention for their casualties, while the much highre Palestinian casualties are usually ignored.
B) The UN is enormously important, even the US admits this. Why else would they go to such pains to get a UN resolution on Iraq?
C) Who did express outrage at the time the murders were committed. Who gave Hussein his gas, his warplanes, his guns? Surely not the US?

6) To iceviking
The issue is not about the butchery of Arafat. BTW Don't you agree your site is a little unbalanced?

7) To idontslam
A)The issue has little to do with which city is holy to whom. Jerusalem is also holy to Christians (who fought crusades for it), but who now can live with the idea that the city is inhabited by palestinians and israelis.
B) Be carful in your wording. Occupation is the fact that Israel effectively is in control of the West bank and the Gaza strip (the occupied territories), as Germany occupied France in WWII. This has nothing to do with who lives where.

8) To Mackie, Buck
Palestinians speak Arab, so what, Americans speak English, there was no American leader of any name, or american people before 1776, or was there. Nor was there, for the last two millenia before 1948 a jewish state.
All this to say that lack of an official state does not rob the palestinians (Arab people living W of the Jordan river, also prior to their expulsion in 1948) of their right to live where their ancestors live, to be governed by whom they choose etc.
It is meaningless to say that "Arabs" already own 99,9% of the middle East, and therefore should stop complaining about the small percentage that Israel is occupying. It is the Palestinians that count, and Israel is occupying almost 100% of their land.

9) To ambisinistral:
in 1948, israeli terrorists attacked and expelled thousands of Palestines. Am I right?
In 1945 British and America terrorists attacked (bombed)Dresden, of no military importance. 100.000 citizens killed. Am I right? In 1902 British terrorists attacked and expelled the Boers in South Africa. Am I right?
In the years after 1865, Confederate and Yankee terrorists attacked Confederate and Yankee citizens. etc, etc

The definition is not so simple. I'd say that an occupied people, being subjected, has a certain latitude in its right to choose its targets.
TVE

Point well taken Mackie. However, since most people are quite confused about the exact immediete history of the Israel-Palestine conundrum, let me brush up your history a little bit. Israel and Palestine, the entities we know of today was not confined within the constricted geographical location we see today. The Ottoman Turkish province (vilayat)of palestine encompassed the whole area of modern day Israel, West Bank, Gaza and the state of Jordan, roughly conforming to the biblical region of canaan. During WW1, the Yushuv - The Land buying and Settling agency of the returning Jews, fed up with the ineptitude, restrictions and oppression of the Ottoman Govt., entered into an agreement with the British whereby the Jews offered to enlist in thousands in the invading British army and help them out in every possible way. In return the British, if they won, would formally recognise the land of Palestine as the Jewish National Homeland. The Jews kept their part of the bargain and entered the fighting on the side of the British and, in the process, suffered war casualties which ran into thousands. On the contrary the Arabs sat on the fence through the most part of the war. Despite the romantic adventures of 'Lawrance of Arabia', all his mighty Bedouine tribesmen did was to blow up some railway tracks and rob a few supply trains, apart from taking a one horse town on the Hejaz coast ( of very little stategic value). Only when the Turks were decisively beaten in Beersheba and British victory in the war was assured did the Arabs join in to share in the plunder of the dying Turkish empire. After the war however the British, in an effort to placate rising Arab fears and exploit the newly discovered resources of Arab oil (Perfidious Albion and her old tricks) went back on their word. They occupied the whole of Palestine and, by the Balfour Declaration of 1919,suddenly bifurcated Palestine roughly along the River Jordan and created a new principality called 'Trans Jordan' in the eastern half of Palestine. They brought in Sheikh Abdullah, the elder brother of Faisal, from Mecca and installed him as the puppet Sultan of the Kingdom of Trans Jordan. The rest of Palestine was brought under the British imperial crown and goverened as the British Province of Palestine.

So you see, through a proper agreement with the Imperial Government of GB the Jews of Palestine were assured that the whole of Palestine would be recognised as their national home. But less than half (British Palestine)were opened for further Jewish immigration (no formal declaration of Jewish Homeland though) while the other half went exclusively to the Arabs. Now when the arabs crib that Palestine was stolen from them they conveniently forget they already own 60% of the land exclusively, in Jordan. In 1948, after a UN General Assembly voted for and mandated the creation of the state of Israel, the already truncated Palestine was further divided, the arabs retained control of the West Bank and Gaza(the going joke was 'the promised land is really the twice promised land - once to the Jews and once to the arabs). Yet the infant state of Israel accepted this loss and was progressing quite happily when in 1966 all the surrounding Arab countries attacked Israel together. The Jews fought back and won a glorious victory in an extremely unequal war, and occupied West Bank and Gaza, which should have rightfully been given to them in 1948.

If we analyse the arab claims logically the very deviousness of their reasonings become transparent.

They calim the whole of Palestine because they had been residing there for 1200 years. The Jews continuously resided there for 2500 years, from 2200 BCE to 78 CE, when the Romans drove them out of their land after terrific massacres. Jews have as much claim to Palestine if not more.

Arabs say that the armies of Islam conquered the land from the Byzantines after the battle of Yarmuk in the 7th century, so it belongs to them. By the same reasoning Jews conquered WB,Gaza and Sinai in the Arab Israel War of 1966 so in belongs to them now. (Giving up Sinai was not a very bright idea)

Arabs accuse Israel of intolerence and aggression. Well, nobody asked the Arabs to attack Israel in 1966 and 1973 and surely nobody asked them to lose the wars.

From 1948 to till date Israel has made the desert bloom and made huge strides in Industry and commerce. The Arabs inherited the same quality of land in WB and Jordan, they left it as semi desert, inspite of Petro dollars.

Which ever way you look at it the reasoning of the Arabs always appear like the grumblings of a sore loser and the tantrums of a spoilt child, who would listen to no other reason but his own.

I'm neither a Jew nor a Muslim. I'm a hindu from India, which is not ill disposed towards the arabs. But after logically analysing the situation I couldn't help but offer my sympathies for Israel.
- mitra

Here is one more (which I forgot to add to my blog which I`ve now added):

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36367

TVE:

Clearly, you haven't monitored the North American media very well if you can conclude there is a bias toward Israel. Never heard of Michael Moore?You are right, however, in your assessment that the European tilt is even more hostile to Israel and Jews, but for the wrong reason. It's got nothing to do with Israeli/Jewish PR, but inverted guilt over the Holocaust, the desire to be seen as standing up for an apparent "underdog" and the effect of a large Muslim population. If anyone operates an effective PR machine, it's the other side. It would not be inappropriate to talk of the "Nakba Industry".

For instance, you are very wrong about the events that led to the mass exodus of Arabs in 1948 from what is now Israel. Most of them left at the urging of the Arab leadership that directed them to flee what was to become a war zone and assured them they would be able to return very soon.

Also, did you know, by the way, that unlike any other "refuge", Arabs were able to qualify as Palestinian refugees with as little as 2 years' residency within what is now known as Israel?

Those are just two examples, but like you, I have a job and can't spend a lot of time detailing other examples. I'm sure other DW and JW bloggers can come up with a host of others, or you can borrow a copy of Allan Durshowitz's "A Case for Israel" and spend a few hours reading it.

Dear Tva,

If that site doesn’t convince you than nothing will. But forget about who is the combatant and who's not. Just compare the actual number of babies, women and old people who died. (And before you ask over 45 was consider old in the study).

Talking about balance: clearly it doesn’t sound like you’ve ever read anything from the “Israeli side” so if balance means that you disregard anything coming from the “Israeli side”, than that’s a very superficial an argument don’t you think? Did you disregard facts coming from the “Palestinian side” as well? It doesn't sound like it.

Regarding tve - there's none as blind as those that can't see. tve is a classic example of the anti-Jewish, pro-Arab mindset of the european Left. Give him any facts that don't agree with his world view and he ignores them. Notice too the all too typical patronising tone so beloved of the Left when speaking down to us mere mortals . But unlike many of the blinkered comrades of the Left tve does at least has a grasp of the bloody obvious - "Don't you agree your site is a little unbalanced ?" That's the whole bloody point sunshine, this site is a warning to the open-minded (so that counts you out tve) about the perils of the islamic jihad. It's not supposed to be balanced ! It's a wake up call to the non-muslim world about our gravest danger - islam! Now tve go back to burying your head in the sand - be the good little euarabian the Left want you to be. But thanks for your bigoted, uninformative comments - they show both the committed and uncommitted visitors to this site how empty and illogical the arguments of the Left really are.

be careful tve, one morning you're going to wake up and KNOW which side of the bed you've been lying on.....

Dear Tve,

Actually let me help you there are two and a half time as many babies dead on the Israeli side than on the Palestinian side, there are three times as many women, and old people dead on the Israeli side than on the Palestinian side.

And Tve

If you have a little time would you tell us about your balanced sources? You are quite critical of the comments here being unbalanced, so please tell us where can we get balanced facts? You must have a paper you read daily, a TV station you watch daily, and you must have a few books you read on the issue, so please let us know, because I’d love to have a read.

tve posts: History is important, although history that happened millenia ago is irrelevant.

That is patently untrue. What happened millennia ago is relevant to:

1) The legitimate claims of the indigenous people of the region - the Jews - to their ancestral homeland.

2) The acknowledgement of the institution of dhimmitude, which had denied Jews their fundamental human rights and dignity for centuries. The refusal to return to the excesses of Islamic hegemony and intolerance was intrinsic to the Zionist aspirations of the Jews - the aspiration to live in a free and dignified manner.

For all those who engage in the role reversal of victim and aggressor in the long Arab-Jew conflict, history begins in 1967. Certainly what is going on now is more important than what happened centuries ago, but to deny history as a means of absolving the Arabs of their responsibility for their condition doesn't stand up to objective analysis.
The facts on the ground are this: when the Arabs are ready for peace, they will have it. Until then, they will get what they ask for - war, death, destruction, misery.

Whilst TVE repeats the mantras ad infinitum of the israeli haters he might like to know what the pool pals have done to HIS VERY OWN CHRISTIAN brethren since 1948.

The Christian population of the Palestinian Authority, once representing 20 percent of the region, is down to 2.4 percent. There are fewer than 50,000 Christian Arabs living within the Palestinian Authority

This massive display of ethnic cleansing and population movement has been totally obscured by the Palestinian Authority and covered up by the international media. Worse yet, it has even been blamed on Israel

Here are the facts. Some 2 million Christians have fled the Middle East in the past 20 years. Some estimates are much higher than this. Since Arafat took over administration of the Palestinian territories from Israel, the Christian population has dropped from 15 percent to 2 percent.

They are being driven out. They are being murdered. They are being raped. They are being systematically persecuted. They are being harassed. They are being intimidated.

The truth is the Christian population in Israel has more than quadrupled since 1948. Why? Israel guarantees religious freedom – whereas the Palestinian Authority offers an official religion of Islam.

It's time for the whole world to recognize the mini-holocaust taking place against Christians in the Middle East. It's time to punish those guilty of these atrocities – specifically those in charge of the Palestinian Authority. For God's sake, they must not be rewarded with a state of their own.

hat tip J farrah

2) To alex221166
The fact that cabindans, tibetans or aboriginals (or USA indians) do not fight (anymore) for their rights does not rob the Palestinians of their rights to fight. One could argue that the Tibetans are still fighting the Chinese, but they have remarkably little success. The same argument could apply to the US independance struggle against england.

You assume that they don't fight because they don't murder civilians? FYI, the Cabindans have a guerrilla movement called FLEC which has been fighting for Cabindan independence for the past 30 years... they just don't target Angolan civilians, they stick to the military.

As to the tibetans, what has the Dalai Lhama been doing for the past 50 years if not fighting for Tibetan freedom?

Whatever right the Palestinians might once have had to those lands, they lost it when they resorted to barbarism.

Well said alex221166, good point.

tve presumes,

"I'm not Shakespeare, moreover I have a job..."

The fact that you have a "job" somehow compromises your fated role as history's greatest writer?

"...so I cannot answer all of your comment and remarks, but here are a few of my thoughts."

Thanks for your "few" thoughts.

"Note, unless somebody writes something that really strikes me as relevant, I'll not post any more remarks on this one. But I'll read your reactions."

Another presumption to your superior intelligence?

Mitra,

That was a great post! Could you recommend us any good book and/or on-line writing, related to the history of Israel?

Thanks,

Joel Català

tve is a muslim troll.

TVE, you are not convincing anyone. If you read an unbiased history of the region, you will see that it is in fact Palestinians that currently occupy Jewish land (Judea and Samaria), rather than the other way around. This is about the Arabs/Muslims wanting 100% of the Middle East, including the traditionally Jewish lands. Watch out: Europe is next on their list.

Thanks Joel,
Here are a couple of good sites for you guys
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
www.jewish-history.com/links.html
http://history1900s.about.com/library/world/blxisrael.htm
www.freeman.org/online.htm
www.hum.huji.ac.il/dinur/Internetresources/modern/M.htm

I second that recommendation on the Jewish Virtual Library - it's well worth a bookmark.