From Expatica, with thanks to Anthony:
But employers' federation president Dieter Hundt and trade union federation chairman Michael Sommer said in a joint statement issued on Sunday it was up to politicians to create the conditions for a society "which offers room for different cultural identities and development opportunities".
Because that's all it is, you see: in Germany today there is not enough room for cultural identities and too few development opportunities. Jihad ideology? Pah. This is all the Germans' fault.
Hundt and Sommer said Germany had to succeed in giving everybody the opportunity of taking part in social, economic, cultural and political life irrespective of their origin and "with respect for cultural variety".It was also important that foreigners who had been living in Germany for a long time be given security of residency rather than have to renew short-term residence permits.
Yes, I can see the headlines now: "GERMAN MUSLIMS GRANTED RESIDENT STATUS -- RENOUNCE JIHAD AND SHARIA"
But some are more realistic:
Edmund Stoiber, the Bavarian premier who leads the CDU sister party CSU, told Bild am Sonntag newspaper foreigners applying for a German passport should have to swear an oath to the German constitution. All foreign children should be made to attend a German school, he said.Brandenburg state's CDU interior minister Joerg Schoenbohm called for "foreigner quotas" in city districts, schools and nurseries. Last week, Schoenbohm said foreigners in Germany should accept Germany's defining culture, saying "we shouldn't allow this common ground to be destroyed by foreigners".
However politicians from the coalition SPD and Greens accused the centre-right of abusing the debate on extremism and terrorism.
"Integration of the foreigners living in Germany has got nothing to do with international extremism and terrorism," SPD chairman Franz Muenterfering told Die Welt newspaper.
Really, Franz? But I thought you were figuring that if you had given Atta a better job, the "security of residency" and a Muslim holiday, he would have broken up his little jihad cell in Hamburg. Now I am to believe that that cell was not the result of Atta's self-perceived marginalization in German society. Well, all right. But doesn't that lead us back to the ideology of jihad, which you persist in ignoring?
"We want integration. We are a country of immigration," he said.
All right, but does Germany have any identity of its own? Is there any cutoff? Or is Germany just a rooming house for the world?
Hugh Fitzgerald comments yesterday on Germany and Europe should not be missed:
"Ah, yes, the "bridge between Islam and the West" --"a crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many..."
If you build a bridge, will they cross it? And how! Turks, and Kurds, and many many Arabs -- hard for those Westerners to tell them apart, what with all those funny names and scripts. Turkey as a permanent bridge to the E.U. And once there, Turks as members of the E.U. will be free to move about as they wish, to settle down anywhere they wish in the E.U., to build their mosques, their madrasas. Even in countries which, unlike France and unlike Germany, never admitted large numbers of Muslims out of a greedy desire to find cheap labor, and heedless of whether, in the end, what came undeclared, or misunderstood, in the mental baggage of these millions of migrants, would cost the indigenous non-Muslims much, much more. And now France, and Germany, or at least some of the fossilized figures who remain in power, and who cannot admit, to their own people, much less to themselves, that the entire large-scale Muslim migration was a disaster..."
Read it all:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004090.php#comments
http://www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=17866
German interior minister calls for 'European Islam'
In Europe's largest member state, a strong debate is taking place about the integration of Muslims and Islam into society.
German interior minister Otto Schily told this week's edition of news magazine Der Spiegel that his long-term goal is that Muslims in Germany accept a 'European Islam' - which respects the vales of Enlightenment and stands up for the rights of women.
An intellectual-political examination of Islam is part of a programme that he wants to press ahead with for the integration of immigrants, Mr Schily told the magazine.
He said that the Germany's regions should be more rigorous about the possibility of deportation when integration efforts fail.
Andrew,
I have read this article and also recognised the following voices about "dithering Deutsche", "The Everlasting German Nightmare" and so on.
Although I accept most of the statements that have been made, even some exaggerations concerning "The Turks built up Germany after the war", mind you Mr. Hugh, most of Muslim immigration took place in the 80s and 90s when everything was already done and the wealth was going to be distributed!
But the point is: What uses quarreling and German bashing, when most of us Germans contribute to the war of terrorism?
When our tax payers are paying the contribute to Israel's existence by giving her 100 billions of US$ the last 40 years?
When our recrutes are protecting US American bases in Germany and helping to keep them intact for your fighting forces in Iraq?
What about those German forces at the Damn Hindukush? What about the huge rallys after 9-11?
Nearly every German is shaken by the death of Mr. Bigley, Nick Berg , Mrs.Hassan etc.
But instead, nearly all of you like to listen to the leftist media and a bunch of radical liberals who are on the verge to use the flagellum of national self hatred every time someone is concerning about our state.
On the other hand, Mr.Hugh tells me ex cathedra something about Sudeten Germans.
Does this mean us Germans to expell the Muslim community out of Germany?
So, Mr. Hugh wouldn't it be possible, that nearly all countries of the world (including USA and UK) would join in the fight to destroy evil Nazi Germany forever?
Regards
The best they can do is stop all moslem immigartion, impose welfare penalities on overbreeding by specifying an upper limit on children per family and deporting muslim illegals.
If labor shortages are all they're worried about, there's plenty of culturally-amiable labor available in east europe, russia, latin america, china and india.
It all sounds to me like a "merde pou tout l'Europe" proposition. With their horrific Argelian and Turk population size, France and Germany seem to be keen on admitting Turkey into the EU to spread the rancid muslim butter all over the place. It is a pretty uncomfortable situation to be one of the few idiots(the UK being the third conspicuous meber of this fool's club) to have let millions of alliens into their respective territories, incapable as they are at this historical juncture to shift the reverse gear. +
'Shit for all', seems to be their motto. If I had the power to do so, only on grounds of the suicidal admittance of that half-baked democratic country Turkey happens to be, I would wihtdraw my own country from the UE, for it is becoming a dangerous place to live and raise one's children.
To El Cid:
Thank you for your advice... but what about Spain with one of the fastest growing Muslim populations in Europe?
I said Spain is becoming a dangerous place to live and raise one's children. If I were living in England I would have left long ago. There is no case to include France in the hipothesis, for it is a country I have never dreamt about. Germany is a different thing altogether but the language barrier makes it a no no for me.
Nippon,
You might find enlightening an article I came accross at
>city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.html
Franz Muenterfering states "We are a country of immigration"
I would love to read your observations on this psychobabble, nippon. Even America, which is a nation of immigrants, doesn't identify itself as such.
Mike,
I guess this Gentleman only does his lip service concerning the issue.
Those people are called "soldiers of a political party".
Like in the thirties when everyone couldn't raise his right arm not high enough.
El Cid,
I am sorry for misunderstanding you
No offence taken. I realize that in one of my posts I have inserted a small thing in French, resorting to what a learnt at school.
Like in the thirties when everyone couldn't raise his right arm not high enough.
LOL!
BTW,
many so- called German politicians are mere bureaucrats, who unlike many English, American, Spanish and French top-level administration members never got a university diploma.
Mr. Müntefering once worked as a steel merchant and Mr.Fischer, the Secretary of State failed to attend Highschool.
Most of Germanys MofP are Highshool teachers.
One can imagine the lack of strategic foresight or geopolitical knowledge or economical providence.
Please note: I didn't want to compare Mr.Müntefering with a Nationalsocialist, he is a nice man and a good social democrat, but it is driving me crazy to see those people just following the agenda straight forward.
So many statements the bureaucrats are echoing seem to be like pure hot air.
Nothing is solved, nothing prevented.
We understand, nippon. Your comment about the "herd mentality" was amusing, nonetheless.
BTW, interesting insight into the backgrounds of your MPs, nippon. I would have never guessed that.
Nippon,
as another German I have to slightly disagree. I wouldn't wrap Mr. Muentefering into cotton wool. What this man is saying is treason, he is selling out his country, his religion (in case he is a Christian) and his people. What the political elite in Germany are doing is also treason and those responsible should be charged with treachery and crimes against humanity.
The German left and right - as I have stated in another posting - are very similar, if you ask me. They have got two common enemies (Israel and the US) and also a common ally (anyone who hates Israel and the US and that, of course, includes muslims).
Germany's foreign minister Joschka Fischer gained notoriety in the 80s when the protest against the new runway West at Frankfurt Intl. Airport was at its heyday. I seem to remember he was witnessed throwing stones or other objects at policemen. I don't for a minute believe that for some reason this guy has suddenly developed decent moral values. It says a lot about Germany in 2004 that criminals like Fischer can actually reach a position in government. The question every decent German has to ask himself is whether they willingly accept moral guidance from morons like Fischer, Schroeder and Muentefering (and all the others of the left political spectrum). I personally decline this guidance.
Well, disillusionised_german,
I cannot agree with this simplistic view, because Germany is doing a lot of things for her allies, recently abandoned Iraqi dept... we are talking about 3-4 billions of US$.
And Mr. Müntefering can be called silly, moronic etc. but he is not an ultra- leftist who is on the verge of attacking America and Israel.
This not true. Period. The same with Mr. Fisher who had good realtions with Mrs. Albright.
Even Mr. Mahler, former member of RAF and nowadays NPD lawyer seems to be more and more rejected by his ultra -right party members.
The point is: They lack the quality to lead a big industrialised country with a complex and sometimes threatening past and a complex future to come.
I guess they even do not know to whom they speak:
Such as Elias Nehadeen who is a Saudi radical and well known spokesman for Muslim issues.
Or Bassam Tibi whom they would regard as a nice gentleman not knowing that he is performing Taqqiya.
Nippon:
True, I have rather simplistic views these days because the problem is simple and the solution doesn't seem to be. Either we keep trusting these "elected representatives" or we spread the word about evil Islam (and there is no other word to describe this sect). I don't give a toss what background Muentefering and Fischer have - they might use these in order to find excuses in German courts but that won't wash with me - fact is: they are on the verge of destroying all that has positively developed in Europe over the past 300 years and we need to stop them. I am spreading the word by telling colleagues and friends to read the articles here. I have also written to Mr. Irmer who is a CDU representative in Hessen where I live and who's been recently under attack for his political views. We can't allow a murder like Theo Van Gogh's in Germany. We may have different viewpoints but I hope we share the same values and work to open a few eyes.
P.S.: I wouldn't expect much from writing to German newspapers - I've tried it... doesn't work. They won't even reply
Some good contributions from our Germans! There you go!
And I always thought Germany was a lost cause...
Certainly Fischer seems to have "grown up"- but I couldn't say that about that hopeless blowboy in silk-suits (the chancellor Mr. Shredder) or any of the other parasites of this political circus...
Namely Mr. Trittin seems to be a potential convert to Islam since he want's to reward them with a special holiday...
I rest my case...
Australia is also not exactly kosher. I always thought the animosity here against the USA is based on envy and envy alone. But recently some comments display outright hatred for anything American, and that's something of a worry. At least Howard keeps a lid on Islamic infiltration for now...
Some good contributions from our Germans! There you go!
And I always thought Germany was a lost cause...
Certainly Fischer seems to have "grown up"- but I couldn't say that about that hopeless blowboy in silk-suits (the chancellor Mr. Shredder) or any of the other parasites of this political circus...
Namely Mr. Trittin seems to be a potential convert to Islam since he want's to reward them with a special holiday...
I rest my case...
Australia is also not exactly kosher. I always thought the animosity here against the USA is based on envy and envy alone. But recently some comments display outright hatred for anything American, and that's something of a worry. At least Howard keeps a lid on Islamic infiltration for now...
Terminator, I think the outright hateful comments about anything American you hear from Aussies are mostly from lefties anyway. And that's the uber trendy thing to do these days: hate America. If they're right of centre, I think it's more to do with the old-fashioned idea that Australia should stand alone, tall and proud, and not team up with America or anyone else on anything. I think most of these people are living in the past, the glory days, which were great and everything, but these are different times. Against terrorism no nation can stand alone. Some just can't accept that.
And then there are the naive, isolationist types who think that an alliance with the US makes us a target, and that if we just huddled quietly in our lonely little corner, the jihadis will leave us alone. Of course, this is BS. They seem to conveniently forget the plots for the year 2000, before 9/11.
I don't know, that's my take on things. What dya reckon?
NIPPON
I do not speak for Mr. Fitzgerald, but I did not detect any German bashing in either his post on the situation or my previous posts here. I think the wildly abused term "Bashing" is a rhetorical bludgeon that stifles all discussion.
It is similar, though not as deadly as the other weapon of liberals (I am not calling you a liberal), the dreaded "RASCIST" brand, guaranteed to ruin the career and reputation of anyone, save the real racists or more correctly, the most intolerant among us, i.e., Muslims who seem to act with impunity when calling non-Muslims "Pigs and Monkeys" and calling for their destruction.
As far as mass population transfers, expelling your "Turkish community", it may come to that because German’s are doing EVERYTHING including bending over and grabbing their ankles for Muslims and the Islamic problem in Germany and Europe continues to steadily worsen.
The possible option of mass deportations for starters is a reasonable response for those who wish us harm. Here in Germany, tolerance unto extinction seems preferable to fighting for your country and culture. So be it, but I for one am sick and tired of the multiculturalists placing us in a circular argument as follows, "To acknowledge Muslim un suitability means you're a racist, to be a racist is bad, you are worse than those who you claim want to destroy us..." These arguments are intellectually as bankrupt as those in Europe or America who cannot distinguish bashing and reality. Pointing out the problems and most Germans I have spoken with all seem to go on the defensive, by using tit-for-tat reasoning, a German specialty, does not mean we are bashing.
You need to know who the real enemy is and it is not the Paul Revere's among us, it is that wonderful Turkish "Community" (Whose community, shouldn't they be part of the German NATION?)that you fail to recognize want to control your country and by virtue of their large numbers, refusal to integrate and serious Turkish nationalism, which you Germans scoff at, they will do just that.
Andrew,
I agree with everything you said, and yes I am aware of what the enemy is planning.
I am aware of the history of Turanic and Turkish tribes who shifted from country to country even before they adopted Sunna, absorbed the culture of those countries, butchered and replaced the elites by their own and enslaved nearly the whole Non- Muslim societies.
Today, some of them are keen to gain the "golden apple" which is a metaphore for conquering Middle Europe (or at least Vienna).
Although I didn't want to insult the Anglo- Saxon Reader with tit-for-tat arguments I wanted to show the dilemma in a quite sarcastic way.
I understood Mr.Hugh's article quite well but the Sudeten situation has almost nothing to do with the actual situation.
This was in response to Mr.Hugh's earlier thread where he mentioned the fact that France and Germany had nothing to contribute to Western Civilisation:
Western civilization wouldn't exist for the sake of the German and Spanish branches of the house of Habsburg (Hapsburg in Englisch spelling), who battled the ikonoklastic Muslim-Ottoman Empire from the 15th to the 19th century.
We Germans not only slained innocent Jews (for wich many Germans are very sorry and ashamed), but also Askindschi and Sipahi and Yeni Tscheri who had invaded the Balkans and had been on the verge to conquer Europe.
Oh, sorry I forgot: You would call the German branch rather "Austrian" than German, in order to avoid the confessing that the evil Teutones also protected Western Europe from invading Arabs, Magyars, Mongols, Tatars, Turks etc.etc. from the beginning of the 8th century, so that England, France, Spain, Italy and Scandinavia had the chance to flourish.
Rather than you, I would also mention the great cultures of Eastern Europe, the Western and Eastern and Southern Slavic countries, which not only battled invading Mongols and Ottomans but also developed their own special way of life, you Americans would say.
Many Germans are aware of the American heroic struggle against Nazism and Stalinism, Germany did not forget your sacrifice.
Today we are your third largest Ally in the struggle against the fanatics on the Balkans, in Afghanistan, and at the Horn of Africa (Somalia).
We also gave Israel a hundret billions of US$ and weaponry like U-boats in order to help to garantuee the existence of her state.
Please don't forget this when the US administration is going to push the government of my country to take in Turkey into EU on the basis of the strategem "divide et impera".
And please don't forget this when you light the Christmas tree and hear to Bach's "Weihnachts Oratorium".
And later:
"Dear Franze,
it's true, Luther didn't like the Jewish community, which rejected his new concept of the New Testament (by any good means) and he also rejected the reformation of feudal system in Germany, on the other hand he is said to be on the side of Carlos/Karl V. who engaged in battle against Süleiman the Magnificent.
He regarded Mohammed as the Antichrist.
Alas, I also have to mention the German ally in the first World War:
Ottoman Turkey!
In the second World War: Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
But not only France and Germany were temporarily the ally of invading Islam, also Great Britain (Crimean war) and even Sweden (Karl XII) chose Ottoman Turkey as an ally against Russia.
And think about USA: They supported the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan and chose Pakistan as an ally in this area, which supported the Taleban and is supporting them until today.
Except Russia, the only force which never chose Islam as an ally, but always battled those ikonoclasts, and also Spain, Italy and Middle-Eastern Europe, no western country should point at any other, for they are all more or lesser guilty in dealing with the enemy of enlightment.
So, I hope Germany and France will be on the right side during the great war, which will taking place in the next 100 years, i.e.
on the side of those heroic countries like Serbia, Russia, Spain, Poland and many others which were engaging in struggle against Mohammed and his followers."
NIPPON
You certainly know your history. I wish everyone had a grasp of it the way you seem to. I did not know Martin Luther's thoughts on Mohammad. The eastrn countries, like Poland, which has been called "the bulwark of Christianity" for its defence of Europe from invading Muslim armies today seem to be forgetting that past. Austria itself even appears to have forgotten considering the large Muslim popilation I saw a few months ago in Vienna.
I know Germany was involved in the Euro-Arab Dialoge and thought importing Turks in by the millions as well as millions of other Muslims of different ethnicities into other European countries was a great way to improve the economic situation. But now, the reality is undeniable.
I wonder if Europe will go ahead, despite public opposition, and grant Turkey EU membership.And yes, I appreciate Europe, especially Germany's vast contributions to the arts.
When I was listening to Beethovens Symphony no. 3, "Eroica", yesterday on DVD, I felt a profound sense of sadness, that such a great civilization, as symbolized by the great master Ludwig Van Beethoven, could be under the threat of destruction by a civilization that would prohibit such music.
What would the great master himself have thought about this considering his actions of scraching out Napoleon Bonapart's name from the original score of the 3rd Symphony upon hearing of his invasion of some country. Beethoven is said to have done so because he realized Napeoleon was a tyrant, something Beethoven hated.
Andrew,
in the end, I am very sorry to say so, the statements of German govt. members which have been made the last days make me ashamed to be of German origin.
Well, what can I say about the new "Ottoman invasion", it was quite too quick to react.
It took only three dacades for them to come in by the hundreds of thousands.
But it was not an greedy automatism of Germany (maybe greedy German companies) to have cheap labour:
A hundret thousand of them were regarded as guestworkers who were supposed to go home after retiering and to contribute to their countrie's wealth which was and still is a NATO partner (de lege!)
Nobody was aware that they still breeded the old dream of the golden apple.
BTW,
you Americans are surely more cultivated than many of us corrupted Europeans.
NIPPON
Want to start a reform party?
Haha:-)
No, I am already a member of a conservative party, but quite useless.
Mr. Spencer does a great job, so we should support him in Germany by translating the news or setting up an new web side.
And oppose the Turkish entry.
NIPPON
Check out this story and READ the 8 comments for this article (the top of the page):
"Yamani or ya life! The UNSCAM GUBU"
http://www.eamonn.com/
I did,
Ted's oppinion is nothing new to me, because some German ultra- rightists do have the similar view on this topic.
Like "Jews and Freemasons are going to conquer the world with big evil capital."
But to a certain extend I have to agree with him:
Politics too often mix with the interests of big business.
If the oil belt was settled by, say believers of Jainism than it would be much easier to deal with the providers of the black gold.
You or Kemaste once stated that politics are like a chess game, I would rather compare it to a labyrinth, for only the persistent has a chance to get out.
So, the targets of western politics are shortsighted and to be doomed if there is not a change.
Feralee, g'day mate:
Where does the myth come from that Germany needed all these Turks for "cheap" labour? Some 100.000 or so were supposed to come to work for a few years and go back.
Instead they came in the millions, welfare and crime on their mind.They settled and now they insist on the Muezzin to call the believers to prayer, per laudspeakers! From mosques that have higher minarets than churches.
And cheap? Germany and all the other European countries that have allowed Muslims to enter and remain will pay a very high price for this fallacy.
As for the Aussies hatred for things American: I'll be watching!
G'day Terminator! So are you American but living in Oz, or an Aussie? Just curious.
Yeah, I don't know where this myth came from, about the cheap labour bit. I hear it here often too when I say good on Howard for stopping the People Smugglers' Indon-Oz Charter Express Service that we were having to put up with back in 2001. Pro-illegal-immigrant types keep harping on about how they take jobs Aussies deem below them, like jobs in abbatoirs.
But from what you hear on the street, they prefer life on the dole. Especially when they start having half a dozen kids or more. Like our Keysar Trad, mouthpiece for our terrorism-apologist-and-welfare-parasite, Sheikh Hilaly. Had a good job at the ATO apparently but suffered some "mid-life crisis" over wanting to take another wife. With 9 kids, he doesn't have to work. Pays more on the dole with that many. Probably $60k/yr at least, benefits and all concessions included. Life is grand in the land o'plenty.
I think the myth is just that: a myth. Perpetrated by the pro-Muslim-swarm group - refugee advocates, refugee lawyers, and self-important others who feed off this industry with useless, taxpayer-funded jobs. A few of these cheap labourers, okay. But not hundreds of thousands, along with their families. That's nuts. Germany has found that out. I'd prefer we just look at their example, versus have to suffer it ourselves to find out.
Feralee/Profitsbeard
Germany and Europe obviously doesn’t get it because they are fast tracking increasing the current European Muslim population of 20 million (Doubled from 10 million a decade ago) by the addition of 70 million more Muslim Turks into the European union.
They cannot turn back, our European cousins have decided on suicide and have created a mess that will either lead to all out war declared on them by Turkey, or their own combined hostile Muslim population. I don't know, but there can only be great conflict ahead for Eurabia. They have sown the seeds of their own extinction as has America.
DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL, you dhimmi politicians and historical revisionists. You deserve your fate, but it is a shame that the average American or European citizen does not hold you accountable you CREEPS.
I've got my pitchfork and torch at the ready and I say a prayer to Jesus Christ to deliver us from the heathens when the abyss is upon us.
Occupied Europe out.