Funny thing: even after I posted about the murder of Theo van Gogh at Dhimmi Watch yesterday, I was still receiving a large number of emails from people telling me I really should post about it. So I added a note at Jihad Watch alerting people to the Dhimmi Watch post. But I still received messages on into this morning telling me I really ought to post about Theo van Gogh. Is it possible that some posts don't show up on some servers?
Anyway, here is a whole article about Theo van Gogh that I wrote last night with one eye on the election returns and one eye on the keyboard. From FrontPage:
Theo van Gogh was shot dead on an Amsterdam street on Tuesday morning. His assailant was a Dutch Moroccan who was wearing traditional Islamic clothing. After shooting van Gogh several times, he stabbed him repeatedly, slit his throat with a butcher knife, and left a note containing verses from the Qur’an on the body. Said Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende: “Nothing is known about the motive” of the killer.Others were not quite so cautious. A Dutch student declared: “This has to end, once and for all. You cannot just kill people on the street in a brutal way when you disagree with them.” Job Cohen, the mayor of Amsterdam, declared: “We will show loud and clear that freedom of speech is important to us.”
Freedom of speech: Eight weeks ago, van Gogh’s film Submission aired on Dutch TV. The brainchild of an ex-Muslim member of the Dutch Parliament, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Submission decried the mistreatment of Muslim women — and even featured images of battered women wearing see-through robes that exposed their breasts, with verses from the Qur’an written on their bodies.
In poor taste? Insulting? Probably that was a bit of the intention. Van Gogh, the great grandson of Vincent van Gogh’s brother (“dear Theo”), was a well-known gadfly on the Dutch scene; in the past, he had attacked Jewish and Christians with enough vehemence to elicit formal complaints. But after Submission, the death threats started to come. Van Gogh, in the eyes of many Dutch Muslims, had blasphemed Islam — an offense that brought the death penalty. The filmmaker was unconcerned. The film itself, he said, was “the best protection I could have. It’s not something I worry about.”
His death shows that it’s something that everyone who values freedom should worry about. For the murder of van Gogh, if it indeed turns out to have been committed by a Muslim enraged at his “blasphemy,” has precedents. In 1947, the Iranian lawyer Ahmad Kasravi was murdered in court by Islamic radicals; Kasravi was there to defend himself against charges that he had attacked Islam. Four years later, members of the same radical Muslim group, Fadayan-e Islam, assassinated Iranian Prime Minister Haji-Ali Razmara after a group of Muslim clerics issued a fatwa calling for his death. In 1992, the Egyptian writer Faraj Foda was murdered by Muslims enraged at his “apostasy” from Islam — another offense for which traditional Islamic law prescribes the death penalty. Foda’s countryman, the Nobel Prizewinning novelist Naguib Mahfouz, was stabbed in 1994 after accusations of blasphemy. Under Pakistan’s blasphemy laws, many non-Muslims have been arrested, tortured, and sentenced to die on the slimmest of evidence. And of course, there is the Ayatollah Khomeini’s notorious death fatwa against Salman Rushdie.
But for such things to happen in Iran and Egypt, two countries where Islamic radicalism is widespread, is one thing; to have a “blasphemer” gunned down on the streets of Amsterdam in broad daylight is another. Europe has for thirty years encouraged massive immigration from Muslim nations; Muslims now comprise five percent of Holland’s population, and that number is growing rapidly. But it is still largely taboo in Europe — as in America — to raise any questions about how ready that population is to accept the parameters of secularism. When Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn tried to raise some of those questions in 2002, he was vilified as a racist — in line with the continuing tendency of the Western media to frame questions regarding Islam in racial terms, despite the fact that the totalitarian intransigence of the ideology of radical Islam is found among all races. And Fortuyn himself, of course, was himself ultimately murdered by a Dutch assailant who, according to The Guardian, “did it for Dutch Muslims.”
The deaths of Fortuyn and now van Gogh indicate that the costs of maintaining this taboo are growing ever higher. One of the prerequisites of the hard-won peaceful coexistence of ideologies in a secular society is freedom of speech — particularly the freedom to question, to dissent, even to ridicule. Multiculturalism and secularism are on a collision course: if one group is able to demand that its tenets remain above criticism, it no longer coexists with the others as an equal, but has embarked on the path to hegemony.
It is long past due for such considerations to become part of the public debate in Western countries. To what extent are Muslim immigrants in Western countries willing to set aside Islamic strictures on questioning, criticizing, and leaving Islam?
After van Gogh was killed, thousands of people took to the streets of Amsterdam to pay him homage. Among them, according to Agence France Presse, was a Muslim woman who stated: “I didn’t really agree with van Gogh but he was a person who used his freedom of expression.” She held up a sign saying, “Muslims Against Violence,” explaining: “I decided that as a Muslim and a Moroccan I should take up my responsibility to show that we do not support this act.”
But the traditional Muslim view is, unfortunately, alive and well; it was firmly restated several years ago by Pakistan’s Federal Sharia Court: “The penalty for contempt of the Holy Prophet …is death and nothing else.” No one knows how many Muslims in Europe and America hold the views of the Moroccan woman at the rally, and how many would side with Pakistan’s Sharia Court — and the killer of Theo van Gogh.
If Western countries continue, out of ignorance, fear, or narrow self-interest, to refuse to find out, they will find themselves playing host to many more incidents like the bloody scene in Amsterdam Tuesday morning. The longer this question is ignored, or attributed only to “racist” sensibilities, the more likely it becomes that the killing of Theo van Gogh will not be a tragic anomaly, but a harbinger of things to come.
UPDATE: By the way, Ahmad Kasravi was murdered on the orders of a youthful Ayatollah Khomeini. And the above is not intended to be an exhaustive list: there are literally thousands of such attacks, successful and unsuccessful, upon those deemed to have defamed Islam.
November 3, 2004
Once again Democrats prove to be sore losers!!!
KJ
Tell your man we are at war and do not need all this baby stuff!!
Remember even the guy in Afghan conceded because he didn’t want to put his country through this crap!!
I guess that the blue states don’t need any HLS money??
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/11/2/183703.shtml
Bush Wins Re-election
NewsMax.com Wires
Tuesday, Nov. 2, 2004
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/11/1/82714.shtml
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Bias, Malfeasance, and Sins of Omission
Geoff Metcalf
Monday, Nov. 1, 2004
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!" may or may not be attributable to Edmund Burke, but the sentiment (regardless of authorship) is axiomatic.
http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?
page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/25/85222.shtml
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
No Appeasement in the War on Terror
Geoff Metcalf
Monday, Oct. 25, 2004
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
--George Santayana America faces a critical choice: The Bush Doctrine of pre-emption vs. The Kerry ‘Plan’ of appeasement, U.N. ‘approval’ and response.
Once upon a time long ago and far away (in 1389) the Ottoman Turks were rolling across Europe. They crushed everything and anyone in their path. It was a religious war. Anyone failing to convert to Islam was doomed.
Like our terrorist enemies today, they could not be appeased, compromised with, or offered any accommodation.
Serbian women were raped and sold into slavery with their children. Men who survived the battlefield were castrated and blinded to make them compliant slaves.
Entire cities became funeral pyres predating (and foreshadowing) our national disaster of 9/11. The Turks at one point nailed over 12,000 Serbians to crosses to mock the death of Christ and the faith of the Serbs.
The Turkish invasion of Europe appeared unstoppable, inevitable, and a done deal ... until they reached the Kosovo Plain.
A Serbian prince, Lazar Hrebeljanovic, resisted the Turks with faith, unbridled courage, and commitment.
The June 1389 battle at the Field of Blackbirds saw some 77,000 Christian knights and soldiers meet the Turks. They all pledged (to each other and to Christ) they would die rather than convert to Mohammedism. Much like our founding fathers pledged “with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”
The liberal left has turned America into an effete sectarian society eschewing anything ‘religious’ as a false violation of separation of church and state. The misused fictional axiom ignores the intent of the framers.
The founder’s intent was to keep ‘government’ out of religion…not to banish religion from government.
77,000 Christian soldiers led by Serbian Prince Lazar engaged in an horrific battle to the death. They literally sacrificed their lives to stop the advance of Mohammed’s horde…not just to save the freedom of Serbia from the advance of Mohammed’s barbaric hordes…but of all Europe.
When the battle was over the best of Serbian men and their prince were dead on a field soaked with their blood. However, the martyrs for their faith fought so valiantly, ripping such an epic cost from Mohammed, that the advance into the heart of Europe was stopped.
When word of the Prince’s death reached a group of knights they raced headlong through the enemy lines ... charging into the center of the enemy camp. They killed the Turkish leader Emir Murad I in his tent. Then they too died in hand-to-hand combat outnumbered two hundred to one.
Masada, Thermopylae, and the Alamo were mirrored in Kosovo. Kosovo Field became to the Serbian people "Acampo Santo," The Holy Field. It is considered by many historians of the Christian Church to be the single greatest tomb of Christian martyrs killed in a single day.
Even if you ignore the religiosity of the framers, historical fact demonstrates waiting to respond to aggression is fatal.
It was Bill Clinton’s aggression siding with Albanian Muslims against the Christian Serbs that wasn’t only counter-intuitive but literally put us on the wrong side of a conflict destined to touch our shores.
Six hundred years ago on the field of Kosovo the Christian army marched toward death. In Constantinople they remained in the town hoping to the last moment that death would somehow turn its back on them. It didn’t.
We are reluctant and diffident crusaders in a holy war no one (other than our enemy) dare acknowledge.
Political correctness, revisionist history, and a silent, cowardly collection of alleged ‘moderate’ Muslims ignore the empirical (and historic) reality. Osama bin Laden and his gang consider this ‘war on terrorism’ as a continuation of the Crusades…and it IS.
I love dogs. I like most dogs better than most people. But if a rabid dog threatens my family I will kill it. I won’t try to pet it, train it, or feed it. I will kill it.
The current crusade that no one dare acknowledge presents a dogma that cannot be accommodated, appeased, OR negotiated. The only solution is a campaign of annihilation.
We have tried the carrot only to have our hands cut off and our children slaughtered. It is ‘Slingblade’ time ... not a Neville Chamberlain/John Kerry appeasement.
Like the soldiers of prince Lazar six hundred years ago, and like the framers who gifted us with the republic, it is time to commit “with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.” It is necessary to defeat the enemy intent on converting or killing us.
That cannot and will not be done with ‘summits’, appeasement, or compromise.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/11/3/35501.shtml
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Wednesday, Nov. 3, 2004 3:53 a.m. EST
Bush Ready to Celebrate His Victory
President Bush will declare his re-election triumph, aides said this morning.
"We will not base our decision on a concession," said adviser Dan Bartlett.
The Associated Press reported, "After winning Nevada, another presidential aide said Bush would soon declare victory."
Do pretend vice president John Edwards and pretend president John Kerry know about this?
Must we dig out our prized official Sore Loserman Crying Towel?
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the US and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Defeat ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat and give them Curage to Stand and Fight them Amen
DIDN'T THEY STEAL SOME OF HIS GRANDFATHERS PAINTING LAST MO.???
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO VICTORY TO DEFEAT ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLS EYES TO THEIR THREAT AMEN
he had attacked Jewish and Christians with enough vehemence to elicit formal complaints. But after Submission, the death threats started to come. Van Gogh, in the eyes of many Dutch Muslims, had blasphemed Islam — an offense that brought the death penalty. The filmmaker was unconcerned. The film itself, he said, was “the best protection I could have. It’s not something I worry about.”
Guess he didn't under stand the difference?
he had attacked Jewish and Christians with enough vehemence
and they turned and complained i'm sure? But they didn't send someone to kill him!!
This is the difference that people need to look at!!
YEA THEY SENT SOMEONE TO KILL HIM FOR HIS FREE SPEACH!!
THIS IS WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING FOR !!!
FREEDOM
GET IT!!
AND SHORT SKIRTS!!!!!
GET IT
THEY WANT YOU TO SIMMIT OR THEY WILL KILL YOU....
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat and give them Courage to stand and Fight Amen
PS
God Bless the Country who has Heros Amen
pitty the country who needs them??
I hate to be cynical, but I was wondering if that Moroccan muslim woman who said she was opposed to violence was just covering her back.
It's gross examples of intolerance on the part of Islam like this recent murder that finally drove me to the conclusion that the world is best off rid of such a tainted insanity disguising itself as a valid religion.
Any religion that does not espouse peace, love and forgiveness as part of its mantras should not exist, in my humble opinion.
Is there anyone here who is connected with the film industry in any way? I thought that it might be a good idea to have this film submitted to the Academy of Arts and Sciences for a nomination in the short film section.
I hate to be cynical, but I was wondering if that Moroccan muslim woman who said she was opposed to violence was just covering her back.
Posted by: Voltaire at November 3, 2004 07:37 AM
You may be right but most mulsum women don't want to go back and like where they have to ride on the back of donkey carts??
Or be beaten and have no recorse?
Yea there are some mulsums who don't believe in the hate but untill the west understands their book there will always be some who will and rise up their mases to fight us and by us given to take our faith out to apease them we can not live in peace!!
Because theirs is not a faith of peace!!
We have to have the courage of our forfathers and stand and fight Evil until it is Destoryed.
We will forgive ourselves for what the Terrorist make us do.
Like our Grandparents did in WW2.
The truth about what Mulsums believe??
Read and learn about the peace they bring to your door??
PEACE, ISLAM STYLE:
Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me.’”
Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”
Tabari VII:86 “Gabriel brought down the following verse to the Messenger: ‘If you apprehend treachery from any people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations).’ When Gabriel had finished delivering this verse, the Prophet said, ‘I fear the Banu Qaynuqa.’ It was on the basis of this verse that Muhammad advanced upon them.”
Tabari VII:158 “Judayy went to Abd Allah Ibn Ubayy to ask for support. He said, ‘I found him sitting among a number of his companions while the Prophet’s crier was calling men to arms. He said, ‘This is a clever trick of Muhammad’s.’ The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir Jews for fifteen days. In the end they made peace with him on the condition that the Prophet would not kill them and that their property and their coats of mail would be his.”
Tabari VII:159 “The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir for fifteen days until he had reduced them to a state of utter exhaustion, so that they would give him what he wanted. The terms in which the Prophet made peace with the Jews were: he would not shed their blood, he would expel them from their lands and settlements, providing for every three of them a camel and a water-skin.”
Tabari VII:159 “The Prophet fought them until he made peace with them on condition that they evacuated Yathrib. He expelled them to Syria but allowed them to keep what their camels could carry, except for their coats of mail and weapons.”
Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”
Qur’an 97:5 “There is peace until the dawning of the day!”
Ishaq:515 “When the people of Fadak heard what had happened, they sent word to the Messenger, asking him to banish them and spare their lives, saying they too would leave him their property. When the people of Khaybar surrendered on these conditions, the survivors asked Muhammad to employ them on their farms for a half share of whatever they produced. They said, ‘We know more about farming [seeing that you are terrorists and all].’ So Muhammad made peace with them for a half share, provided that: ‘If we want to expel you, we may.’ He made a similar arrangement with Fadak. So Khaybar became the prey of the Muslims, while Fadak belonged exclusively to the Messenger of Allah, becoming his personal property, because the Muslims had not attacked its people with cavalry.”
Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”
Tabari VIII:104 “Peace to whoever follows the right guidance! To proceed; Submit yourself, and you shall be safe.’”
Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”
Tabari VIII:142 “The Messenger made peace with them on condition that the Zoroastrians should be required to pay the jizyah tax [so onerous, it’s akin to economic suicide] that one should not marry their women.”
Qur’an 9:7 “How can there be a covenant between Allah and His Messenger and the disbelievers with whom you made a treaty near the sacred Mosque?
” Qur’an 9:8 “How (can there be such a treaty), seeing that they get an advantage, the upper hand over you? They do not pay you respect, or honor you or the ties of kinship or covenant. With (good words from) their mouths they entice you [out negotiate you], but their hearts are averse to you.”
Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”
Tabari VIII:163 “The Prophet said, ‘I think you will see Abu Sufyan [the leading Meccan merchant] come to strengthen the pact and extend the term.’”
Ishaq:543 “Abu Sufyan went to Muhammad in Medina to affirm the peace treaty, but Muhammad refused to speak to him.”
Tabari VIII:164 “Sufyan went to Abu Bakr and asked him to intercede, but he refused. When Sufyan asked Umar to help [avert war], he replied, ‘No way. By Allah, if I had only ant grubs, I would fight you with them! Ali said, ‘Woe to you, Sufyan. When the Messenger has determined a thing it is useless for anyone to talk to him.’”
Tabari VIII:165 “There is nothing that you can do to make peace with him.”
Tabari VIII:165 “When Abu Sufyan reported back to the Quraysh that Muhammad had given him no reply, they said, ‘Woe to you! By Allah, he did no more than play with you.’”
Ishaq:544 “Muhammad commanded the people to prepare for the foray [raid, incursion, sortie, attack, or assault]. The Messenger informed his troops that he was going to Mecca. He ordered them to prepare themselves and ready their equipment quickly. He said, ‘O Allah, keep spies and news from the Quraysh until we take them by surprise in their land.’”
Tabari VIII:182 “Allah had enabled Muhammad to take the persons of the Quraysh by force, giving him power over them so they were his booty. Their lives were now his spoil.”
Ishaq:552 “When the populace settled down, Muhammad went to the Ka’aba and compassed it seven times on his camel, touching the Black Stone with a stick. Then he went inside the Temple. There he found a dove made of wood. He broke it in his hands and threw it away.” [The first idol Muhammad broke was the international symbol of peace.]
Tabari IX:58 “When the Messenger reached Tabuk the governor of Aylah [a seaport at the north end of the Gulf of Aqabah] came to him, made a treaty, and agreed to pay the jizyah tax. The people of Jarba and Adhruh also offered to pay him the tax.”
Ishaq:607 “The Byzantines encountered the Messenger’s cavalry which was led by Khalid. Ukaydir was seized and his brother Hassan was killed. Muhammad spared his life and made peace with him on the condition that he pay the zakat tax.”
Tabari IX:79 “In this year the zakat was made obligatory, and the Messenger dispatched his agents to collect it. The verse was revealed: ‘Take the zakat from their wealth to purify them.’”
Ishaq:316 “In peace you are wild asses—rough and coarse. And in war you are like women wearing corsets. But I care not so long as my hand can grasp my trusty blade.”
Qur’an 8:61 “But if the enemy inclines toward peace, do you (also) incline to peace, and trust in Allah. Should they intend to deceive or cheat you, verily Allah suffices: He strengthened you with His aid and with Believers.” [The small print is real important. “Should they intend to deceive or cheat” is an open invitation to invoke 8:57 to 60. The first to interpret this surah said:]
Ishaq:326 “If they ask you for peace on the basis of Islam (submission), make peace on that basis. Be of one mind by His religion.”
Tabari VIII:17 “The Muslims and polytheists stayed in their positions for twenty nights with no fighting except for the shooting of arrows and the siege. When the trial became great for the people, the Messenger sent for the leaders of the Ghatafan [Meccan comrades]. He offered them a third of the date harvest of Medina on condition that they leave. The truce between the sides progressed to the point of drawing up a written document, but there was no witnessing or firm determination to make peace; it was only a matter of maneuvering.”
Ishaq:454 “Now that Allah has conferred Islam on us, and made us famous, shall we give them our property? By Allah, we will offer them only the sword until Allah judges between us.’ ‘As you wish,’ said Allah’s Messenger.”
Tabari VIII:100 “Abu Sufyan said, ‘We were merchants but the fighting between us and Muhammad has prevented us from journeying, so our wealth is depleted. [This is the purpose of terrorism.] Even after the truce with the Muslims, we fear that we still are not safe. [Muslims, continuing to plunder Meccan caravans, violated the treaty twenty times.]’”
Qur’an 4:90 “For those who join a group between you and whom there is a treaty, or (those who become) weary of fighting you, had Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. Therefore if they withdraw and wage not war, and send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah has not given you a way (to war) against them.” [The purpose of terror is to cause people to become so “weary of fighting” they surrender.]
Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you.]
Read these frome what they believe and copie and send to your friends your preachers be the Paul Revares of our time!! Warn the People we can not count on the MSM!!
Remember a gun in hand is better than 2 cops on the Phone!!
We can not wait like Europe has!!We are the Army to Protect our way of Life!! Don't be the stupid person who says I didn't know I had to ck that Box?? Cause if you don't do it and wait for others it may be to late??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her [Dutch TOO] give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to VICTORY TO DEFEAT ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat and give them Courage to STAND and Fight Amen
Maybe someone brave could make a movie based on the life of Mohammad based soley on revered Islamic texts and then dedicate that movie to the memory of Theo. With all the barbaric and monstrous actions commited by the Prophet Mohammad according to revered secondary Islamic texts such a movie would do the Islamists incalculable harm. That way Theo's life would definately not be in vain and the Islamists would forever regret hurting Theo.
Such a response to Theo's murder would be an Islamists worst nightmare. Lets give the Islamist murderers back some of the fear they give us by doing nothing more than just telling the truth...it is the only thing they really fear.
P.S. the whole reason they murdered Theo was because he was getting the truth about Islam out to the public, so let us give the public the truth.
There should be a Theo Van Gogh award for films opposed to Islam.
The killing of Mr. Theo is most regrettable. It is true that so many muslim men cannot see further than thier appendages and get fog infront of their minds when it comes to insults to their religion.
I would say though that women don't as a rule get phrases from the Koran onto their bodies and then film them while naked. The woman obviously wanted to get back at her husband who gave her a hard time. For her it was personal...trying to do the maximum damage possible and that's never a good thing!
It should be remembered that a lot of western women too get a hard time from their husbands and they don't make degrading films about it.
Nevertheless, these things need to be talked about, not people killed, I hope that the muslim man arrested gets the full weight of the law against him.....but equally films need to be made from a proper perspective and not to get back at the muslims for a fun time.
"...the great grandson of Vincent van Gogh's brother (dear Theo), was a well-known gadfly on the Dutch scene; in the past, he had attacked Jewish and Christians with enough vehemence to elicit formal complaints. But after Submission, the death threats started to come. Van Gogh, in the eyes of many Dutch Muslims, had blasphemed Islam an offense that brought the death penalty."
GEE - which "religion" is intolerant and which is not. The 'ol historical "they do it too" argument from Islamists does not hold water anymore. The historical fact is that the victim ratio linked to radical Islam as compared to any other faith is about 50,000 to 1. It's time for "moderate" Islamic leaders to start acknowledging that up to 150,000,000 million followers worldwide are radical thinkers of Islamic ideology.
"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world, according to Daniel Pipes, an expert on the subject. This means that more than 150 million people are part of the problem. To make matters worse, they hide among the moderates. They don't wear uniforms and rarely identify themselves." http://www.meforum.org/article/168
It is clear the multiculturist agenda is running interference against any and all critical discourse about Islam. This is having the effect of encouraging and promoting the acceptance of Islam "as-is" in Western Societies.
The result is that Islam remains in the Middle Ages as no Western standards of human rights or cultural modernity are demanded from Muslims.
This transplantation of large numbers of Muslims into Europe and blind acceptance of Islam as such in places like Amsterdam is fostering the creation of a future war of civilizations. Ignorance and multiculturism is to blame.
We must wake up to this danger to our collective security before it is too late. Theo Van Gogh was murdered because his Western value system could not take into account that of the enemy’s. He was quoted as saying "that movie is my best protection."
Theo may never have realized that to a fanatical Muslim, the Western model of cultural awareness contrasts sharply with that of Muslims. A general lack of fear of Western justice indeed a loathing of it and an assumption on the part of Europeans that the cultural divide between Islam and the West is merely superficial is enabling the Islamification of the West.
Theo Van Gogh was murdered by a guest into his home, the Netherlands. A guest who was invited by the progressives and sheltered from criticism by the multiculturists. There, he was afforded every right and privileged and benefit of living in a free country. But rather than becoming a part of Dutch society where life was far better than his native Morocco, the honored guest, offering nothing more than "diversity" and "cheap labor" betrayed the honored status afforded him and killed to satisfy the Islamic vision of civilization.
That vision is once again butting heads with our own. If we continue to silence criticism and distort the reality of the Islamist agenda in the West, our very societies will become far worse breeding grounds for Islamic terrorism than they already are.
White washing Islam in the hope its adherents will feel better about themselves will only encourage resistance to reform and make more such ritual murders as that of Theo Van Gogh very likely and we better wake up before it is too late to reverse.
NASEEM SAID:
Nevertheless, these things need to be talked about, not people killed, I hope that the muslim man arrested gets the full weight of the law against him.....but equally films need to be made from a proper perspective and not to get back at the muslims for a fun time.
Obviously you consider the film to be a lampoon or nasty derision of Islam which distorted and satirized it. As for talking about "these things", honest discourse about Islam is not politically correct and only results in its critics being jailed for "hate speech", particularly in Europe. In Islamic countries, the slightest hint of blasphemy results in severe penalties, usually death. I agree, it is time to talk about it; it's time to admit that oil and water do not mix and this disastrous experiment in multiculturalism is a dismal failure.
That is the crux of the problem----ISLAM CANNOT BE TALKED ABOUT. Anyone who dares to expose the truth about Islam, regardless of his methods, is severely castigated either by society or by Muslims.
This is not acceptable. As long as Muslims continue to migrate to the West, bringing with them an archaic belief system that is incompatible with secular, Western governments and societies, crimes like this will increase exponentially. The gainsayers, apologists, appeasers, and pro-multiculturalists must be challenged by the silent majority.
The gainsays' comforting multiculturalist nostrum
that any unpleasant manifestation of Islam is not really Islam has failed to cure an incurable problem. Denial is not an anodyne for any disease.
We are being forcibly subjected to the tyranny of Islam in our own countries, and it's time to refute the lies of not only Muslims, but the multiculturalists who have invited the destruction of our civilization.
I don´t see demonstration against islam for killing this good man, this intelectual, Michael Moore is intelectual but this man is rubbish, and the rubbish must be killed, what a hypocirtical and cynical world, rest in peace Theo
Quote from above:
"It should be remembered that a lot of western women too get a hard time from their husbands and they don't make degrading films about it. "
This statement above is why I say that every Muslim is an Islamist at heart. We in Western society POLICE OURSELVES. We have laws against domestic violence, we have education, reform, awareness programs, domestic awareness movies and documentaries, and open discussions about the topic in a free society. The Islamic countries around the globe, which are a disaster to live in by the way, do NOT proactively police themselves concerning fair treatment, awareness, and reform. The person above is an Islamic apologist and is part of the problem. These individuals historically amplify and distort the non-Muslim's worthy attempt to expose the need for awareness and change; ie. "not to get back at the muslims for a fun time." I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE FILMMAKER WAS DOING NASEEM.
Naseem, You're not much of an observer of Western women, are you? If you don't think Western women have movies showing how they are abused, just tune into the Lifetime Channel. In the movies shown here, women are raped, murdered, stalked, abused, etc. etc. The difference is that in the end, the men ALWAYS pay the piper. Understand? Get it? The asshole males in our society are punished. Just ask John Wayne Bobbit.
American men, I love you. With few exceptions, you are caring, decent, and loving. God bless you. Naseem, may God condemn you to watching an eternity of Lifetime movies.
Naseem wrote:
" films need to be made from a proper perspective and not to get back at the
muslims for a fun time."
What is a 'proper perspective', I wonder? Presumably Hirsi Ali thought
'Submission' was made from a proper perspective - her
own, based on her own experiences and
those of other abused muslim women she
knew. The film deals with serious issues
and no one one else had suggested it was
made for - or offers - 'a fun time'! It's
hardly a comedy or a sex flick as Naseem
seems to be insinuating.
Just as with figurative painting and
sculpture, films have come under
attack from Islam right from the time
they were invented. There are no public
cinemas incountries like Saudi Arabia
(though you can be pretty sure every
princeling has a screening room along
with the latest dvds, porn included.)
Cinemas in muslim countries where they
were tolerated, were often burnt down,
usually with the audiences delibertely
locked inside. For instance "in August
1978,400 people lost their lives at the
Rex in the city of Abadan. Mullahs
believed the movie theatre to be a symbol
of the godless West and a competitor
to the mosque, thus making it a direct
threat to their power. Furthermore,
movies were considered blasphemous
because they featured images of women
without veils and, later, scenes of
dancing accompanied by music."
After Khomeini decided films could be
used for propaganda purposes, the movie
industry in Iran revived and several
Iranian movies have worn awards on the
festival circuit. It's a different story
back in Iran where mullahs and religious
police keep a close eye on what's playing.
Last year the biggest hit movie in Iran
was a comedy about a petty criminal on
the run who disguises himself as a mullah
and then discovers the kinds of privileges
and perks available only to mullahs.The
movie played to packed houses when it
opened, but the real mullahs soon decided
they didn't like the message and had it
yanked from theatres even though it had
passed the censor.
For an account of the Iranian 'Oscars',
which would be hilarious if it wasn't
tragic, take a look at ----
http://living.news.designerz.com/irans-hardline-judiciary-plans-to-detoxify-film-industry.html
Wonder what happened to the festival
organiser that gave him a 'heart attack'?
Movies are Moving Images - and, as we know, there's no room in Islam for
images of any kind.
Naseem
I think the time to do something about it is a better option. Talking about Islam ad nauseum has no effect-zero. Nowhere that I am aware of has talking about the problems Islam is causing in our societies has actually accomplished anything to our benefit.
What is accomplished is that through dialoge WE are supposed to understand and relate to Muslims despite THEIR unwillingness to reciprociate. That Naseem is what I am fed up with. The one sided nature of any and all "Dialoge" with Muslims.
When is a church going to be built in Saudi Arabia or the rights of Christians and Jews and other non-Muslims going to be respected in Islamic societies?
Unless and until that starts hapening, I consider all dialoge just buying Muslims time until they will attempt to impose their Shariá or carry out their assassaniations or begin instituiting their tyrannical rule on us free men and women here in the West.
I say that the time for talking is over and the time for acting is now. Immigration reform is the first step followed by laws designed to take into account od Islamic incitement with the power of rapid and sure deportations. Secondly, throw out the textbooks which have been seeped in lies and misrepresentation about Islam and our great western tradition and start educating our children about their culture and the historic facts about Islam.
Keep a watch on both the Netherlands and France... those are two countries seriously pissed off with muslims and the sinking feeling of oncoming dhimmitude.
France often gets a bad press on her, and I'm no froggie fan myself, but trust me, there are a lot of seriously angry frenchfolk, who feel helpless as muslim immigration continues relentlessly. Holland is predicted to have 50% muslims in 20 years unless things change soon. And this murder is the second BIG murder by muslims of popular dutchmen..... If it was over here I'd like to think the bastards would at the very least be getting forced onto a raft made of straw, with sails made of paper, and given their marching orders.
The fuse hasn't much longer to burn.....
The UK will follow soon after, I think in our lifetime we will see a widescale uprising.
Beautiful article, I'd like to see columns like that in European papers. Instead, there are mostly brief notes, if anything at all. With the familiar epithets like "controversial", "anti-immigrant", "right-wing" to describe van Gogh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali or also Pim Fortuyn. Already, there are people "worried about backlash against Muslims". How many crimes the Muslims must commit before Europe will be worried about THEIR VICTIMS for once?
This murder was really depressing, in a way more than random violence. It was definitely a freedom of speech issue, it tells all of us: keep quiet, or else...
But I think Rikki is right that although the media will certainly react with a lot of PC effort against rising "Islamophobia", the reactions of Europeans will sooner or later show in election behavior.
They have proven to be a bad risk whevever they go. I agree with Andrew except instead of reform I say no immigration at all. What country needs a nasty group of islamic wierdos running around making demands. Screw them. Muslims go back to islamic countries and stay the hell out of western countries, you're not welcome.
Kerry, you did the right thing by conceding. Now get yourself and your crazy wife out of our site you miserable, disgracful, snobs!
There is a lot of stuff on this issue in today's Dutch expatica:
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_content_subchannel.asp?subchannel_id=1&page=Expatica_Netherlands
For example:
Right-wing hunts political scalps over brutal killing
Several extreme right-wing groups in the Netherlands are holding a demonstration in Amsterdam on Wednesday evening to demand Mayor Job Cohen and Interior Minister Johan Remkes resign following the killing of filmmaker Theo van Gogh. ...
Note: among the "extreme right-wing groups" is a Platform for Freedom of Expression.
So anybody, just ANYBODY who protests against Islamic violence is extreme right wing, be it feminists, gay-activists, defenders of freedom of speech... What's going on? Maybe the next article gives us a hint:
Government response to killing panned
The Dutch government faced severe criticisim from several quarters on Wednesday for its response to the murder of filmmaker and columnist Theo van Gogh. The Arab European League (AEL) went so far as to liken Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk's appearance at a rally in Amsterdam to a "Hitler speech, with only the little mustache missing". ...
Look for more at expatica.
'Murder letter was call to Holy War'
More from expatica:
'Murder letter was call to Holy War'
The man suspected of assassinating Theo van Gogh left a letter containing texts calling for a Holy War, or Jihad, evening newspaper NRC reported on Wednesday. The paper claimed the man was also found to be carrying a farewell letter that appears to indicate he expected to be shot dead by police after the attack on Van Gogh in eastern Amsterdam. Immediately after the killing, the suspect ran off and fired on officers chasing him. Trapped in a local park he fired on police vehicles that were blocking his escape. A motorcycle officer was hit in the chest but was saved by his body armour. The suspect was shot in the leg and arrested. The government claims the man is suspected of having links to extremist Muslims associated with international terror groups. The news of the letter, if confirmed, would appear to back claims Van Gogh was murdered because of his trenchant criticism of aspects of Islam.
The killing of Mr. Theo is most regrettable. It is true that so many muslim men cannot see further than thier appendages and get fog infront of their minds when it comes to insults to their religion.
Posted by: Naseem at November 3, 2004 09:39 AM
SO YOU ARE TELLING US THERE IS NO HOPE FOR YOUR MEN WE JUST HAVE TO KILL THEM ALL????
AND WE KNOW THAT THEY CAN NOT BE TRUSTED??
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”
Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”
We rednecks just dont stand there when our children are in the street saying little johnny get out of the street 50 times untill a truck runs over little johnny. We go over and pull little johnny out of the street before the trucks comes?
Well we know how the Europeans are we have seen it in WW1&WW2 they let the truck run over them!
I say we get 50 votes in the U.N we have 50 states? I say send in the planes before the truck comes down that road!!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Couage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Defeat ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
We are mightily pissed off in Holland! Again freedom of speech has been dealt a blow by an extremist. Again the government is playing it down, trying to calm the people.
They should give the intelligence service more powers, more funding. Let them crackdown on muslem terrorists. This "goatfucker" had two passports! Why?? You are either Dutch or you are not! Stop this madness, no double nationality. Shut down radical mosques: Shut down the Al Taweed mosque in Amsterdam.
Away with radical islam, this filth should be driven into the sea. They do our country no service and they are putting moderate muslims in a tight spot.
My sincere sympathies to the van Gogh family and the citizens of the Netherlands. The citizens of the Netherlands has gone through unimaginable hardships at the hands of a vicious cult in WW1 who caused havoc worldwide. Now it appears to be victimized by another one who is just as dangerous, if not more so. Even before this, there should been red flags up throughout the world.
Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner said the suspect "acted out of radical Islamic fundamentalist convictions"
Sounds like PC babysitting to me!!
What is this “Justice Minister” saying?
Does “Islamic fundamentalist convictions” take precedence over pre-meditated murder in the first degree?
What is the bottom line here?
Is this “Justice Ministers” mind so warped to believe as you said, feralee, - “Muslim first, foremost and only. He was just being a good Muslim. A true Muslim?”
Can we include “Peaceful Muslim?
Can we assume then also what the Muslim doctrine that says due to his Islamic “fundamentalist convictions” he is innocent?
Are the Muslims going to say the poor fellow is being “Racial Profiled?”
He is a typical “Peaceful innocent” Muslim?
What I am trying to say is this. - He is in a country whose culture is not his own. He committed an act of first degree murder of a citizen of that country. Justice should be administered by the laws of that country without any outside influence. Pure and simple. He should be charged and tried for that murder to the fullest extent of that law and found guilty. The he should be sent to his “Paradise” by way of an honourable burial with a pig.
My sincere sympathies to the van Gogh family and the citizens of the Netherlands. The citizens of the Netherlands has gone through unimaginable hardships at the hands of a vicious cult in WW1 who caused havoc worldwide. Now it appears to be victimized by another one who is just as dangerous, if not more so. Even before this, there should been red flags up throughout the world.
Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner said the suspect "acted out of radical Islamic fundamentalist convictions"
Sounds like PC babysitting to me!!
What is this “Justice Minister” saying?
Does “Islamic fundamentalist convictions” take precedence over pre-meditated murder in the first degree?
What is the bottom line here?
Is this “Justice Ministers” mind so warped to believe as you said, feralee, - “Muslim first, foremost and only. He was just being a good Muslim. A true Muslim?”
Can we include “Peaceful Muslim?
Can we assume then also what the Muslim doctrine that says due to his Islamic “fundamentalist convictions” he is innocent?
Are the Muslims going to say the poor fellow is being “Racial Profiled?”
He is a typical “Peaceful innocent” Muslim?
What I am trying to say is this. - He is in a country whose culture is not his own. He committed an act of first degree murder of a citizen of that country. Justice should be administered by the laws of that country without any outside influence. Pure and simple. He should be charged and tried for that murder to the fullest extent of that law and found guilty. The he should be sent to his “Paradise” by way of an honourable burial with a pig.
WORLDLEADER
You should be pissed off. May I suggest mass protests and civil unrest until your politicians get their priorites straight?
This was not just designed to silence well deserved criticism of Islam, it was designed to blatently and deliberately rub the Dutch peoples faces in sh*t.
Think of the audicity it took to ritually Murder Theo and POSE his dying body with 2 knives stuck into it and a page of Islamic writing on it. If this Islamist bastard could have, he would have severed Theo's head and placed it on his back or chest like in other Islamic beheading videos.
Think of the "Dutch be damned" attitude it took to brazenly commit this act in full public view and then to leave all possible clues that this was Islamic revenge.
This Muslim and his cohorts know that they are members of a protected group and have no fear of any retribution whatsoever. The only thing they can expect is to continue to immigrate to the Netherlands and Europe and YOU can't do squat about it.
Protest and demand that your elected officials God damned DO something to stop the colonization of YOUR country by uncontrolled MUSLIM immigration.
Multiculturalism and secularism are on a collision course: if one group is able to demand that its tenets remain above criticism, it no longer coexists with the others as an equal, but has embarked on the path to hegemony.
Brilliantly articulated, Robert.
obl r us said: "Maybe someone brave could make a movie based on the life of Mohammad based soley on revered Islamic texts and then dedicate that movie to the memory of Theo."
Great idea, obl--there is nothing as effective as art to cement some aspect of reality that should be remembered.
It is through art that we are able to make into something we can experience directly, through the senses, all the values we hold dear, but cannot experience directly. We can't touch or smell or see "justice," but we understand it when we see the blindfolded figure holding the scale aloft. Everybody understands the recently stolen painting, "The Scream," with the bilious colors and terrified, hopeless expression of a person who almost seems to be melting away. Handel's "Messiah," be one a believer or not, or the Olympic music of John Williams, be one an athlete or not, is inspired and inspiring.
Everyone in the civilized world needs to know EXACTLY what Muhammad was, and a movie, which is an artform, could give the viewers the facts and embed them in as complete a context as possible--all the deeds, the motives, the thinking, the ambitions, the environment, the relationships, and everything else that would indelibly cement the facts with the "glue" of the emotional response that would be elicited.
We all remember how difficult it was to read and remember the dry history texts in school. Later, we discovered the historical novel, and read it because it was interesting; it "stuck" because emotions were not divorced from facts. Emotions are a HUGE part of the evaluative process.
Robert's books, Hugh's writing, and many others could be resources for a movie.
P.S. Voltaire, your suggestion, "There should be a Theo Van Gogh award for films opposed to Islam." is EXCELLENT!
Over-confidence is leading the slaves of allah into, for them, ever more dangerous waters.
Buoyed up by the fawning of the euro left and it's infantile anti-Americanism, the savages are getting more and more open in their demands, protests, whingeing and now, outright ritual murder to appease their demonic master.
THIS HAPPENED ON THE STREETS OF YOUR CAPITOL, DUTCHMEN, NOT TO THOSE AMERICANS YOU SNEER AT SO MUCH, NOT TO THE JEWS WHO YOU CONDEMN AT EVERY AVAILABLE OPPORTUNITY, NOT TO THAT AWFUL, UNSOPHISTICATED BUSH, OR HIS POODLE, AS YOU CALL HIM, BLAIR, BUT TO ONE OF YOU!
Do you get it yet, eurabia?, do you get the f***** message or do you need us to write it out for you, nice and slow, in big simple words? - these savages want us enslaved or dead, its' as f******* simple as that!!! get real, get angry, get even!
Saoirse,
About the only living dutchmen I'm familiar with are the band Van Halen. The litle dutch boys who play guitar and drums. I did'nt know that the Dutch sneered at us Americans? Really, how stupid of them. How are they any better?
_________________________
obl r us,
Michael Moore should have the honors of making the film.
I have to say, the overkill that VanGogh received is such a blatant, in your face, in broad daylight brazen kind of murder that it beggars the imagination. America had close to 10,000 murders by handguns alone last year but not where they are shot TEN times and stabbed with knives. Come on.
Cross - you wouldn't believe the extent of dhimmification in europe, even though I know you have an awareness of it, unless you are here you can't fully appreciate the atmosphere, carefully cultivated by most of the media, of self-loathing pc bullshit in the air.
Anti-Americanism is the must-have fashion accessory for the sheep these days, Bush, Blair and Israel are blamed as a matter of course for all the ills of today.
Everywhere I go I see stupid lefty posters, stickers to this effect, on lamp posts, telephone kiosks, on the underground.
The nauseating bbc misses no opportunity, however trivial to smear Americans, I kid you not.
Europe is making it's own cosy little grave, and I honestly believe that only a few countries are worth saving this time round. Put it this way, if we do ever end up with some nightmarish rerun of WW2, I wouldn't want to see a single British or American soldier die for europe, sorry to sound so dramatic, but I really believe that europe will reap what it has worked so hard at sowing this time around, and there are other, more deserving allies in the world now to be helped.
Liberalism comes to mind. Blaming personal failures on some outside entity. They are in reality lazy and undisiplined usually with a great lack of moral fortitude, hench the self-loathing. I can imagine it but I don't want to have to deal with it everyday. It seems sleazy to walk around and have to look at all that.
I bet this is reality everywhere except maybe the tourist spots. Get off the beaten path and I'm sure the ugliness will soon become evident.
I haven't been over and don't have a desire to. I don't like feeling like an outsider, I won't go where I'm not wanted. If I'm on vacation I want to have fun and relax, not to be concerned about whether the natives like me or not. It does'nt seem like there is anything to do other than take some meaningless tourist trip to a museum etc.
Personally I want to thank mister Spencer for this article. Like many countries in the world, the Netherlands are under attack by radical Muslims and it seems there will be no happy ending. The great criticisers of Islam in the Netherlands are now dead (Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh), are into hiding (Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders) or are currently afraid to give their opinion due to death threats (Bart Jan Spruyt, Paul Cliteur and many others). Even though many people in my country have given their anti-dhimmi opinion lately, the great thinkers in my country are silenced, some of them forever. Their loss is such a heavy burden, since there aren't many people left who have the will and courage to carry the torch. The faith in our government and politics is fading and the people of the Netherlands are scared for the first time in so many years. Therefore, or atleast to me, the article of mister Spencer is most welcome... we shall overcome.
Cross - sad to say but actually I believe America unwittingly played a part in europes decline into it's current level of stupidity.
By footing the bill, in both manpower and money to guard western europe for all those years from the end of WW2, America allowed the europeans to become lazy and complacent in terms of defence.
With the exception of Britain, european countries saved a packet by not having to maintain realistic defences, because the US was providing it all for free. Hence they could piss their money up the wall on bloated welfare schemes which are now causing the jitters economically, and indulge in a 40 year long student's union rant against "US imperialism, blah blah blah", safe in the knowledge that if things ever got nasty again, the good old US would protect them.
You can see the fruits of europes indulgence now, can't you, with all the things we are aware of on this site. Hence, to my mind, a healthy dose of reality is what is needed in europe now- a clear message from the US, that it will not go on indulging the swinging sixties mentality, and if europe is in danger from violent islam, europe better f******* do something to help itself, as the US will only help those who are willing to help themselves. The message to europe really is this-be careful what you wish for, because it looks like you're getting it! BTW how do I go about getting one of your green card thingys?
I'm afraid that I have little faith in Europeans to come out of their stupor about Islam before they find themselves in even deeper with Muslims than they already are. Why? Well, when I see that more than 70% of Europe would have voted for John Kerry, they show not only that they are ignorant of what kind of man George W. Bush really is, but more importantly, they absolutely show that they are being crept up upon by Islam like some slasher in a B movie, and Europeans are the clueless victims busy smoking too much weed with their backs turned to the knife. Why so much hate for Bush? They don't understand the threat from Islam, that's why. And that is truly horrifying. I expected more from the source of my own culture than that, but apparently, the strength really is in the United States. Thank God we made the right choice yesterday.
What I am trying to say is this. - He is in a country whose culture is not his own. He committed an act of first degree murder of a citizen of that country. Justice should be administered by the laws of that country without any outside influence. Pure and simple. He should be charged and tried for that murder to the fullest extent of that law and found guilty. The he should be sent to his “Paradise” by way of an honourable burial with a pig.
Posted by: THSIMJ at November 3, 2004 02:27 PM
FIRST OF ALL DUDE YOU ARE A PART OF THE EU AND ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE THE DEATH PLENTLY SO YOU ARE BLOWIN HOT AIR !!!
Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner said the suspect "acted out of radical Islamic fundamentalist convictions
WHAT YOU MINISTER HAS SAID IN PUBLIC IS A BIG STEP HE PUTS IT BACK ON THE MULSUMS TO PROVE THIS IS NOT PART OF THEIR BELIEFS..
THE FACT THAT HE SAID ISLAM IN THE SAME SENTANCE AS CONVITIONS IS A GOOD THING!!
TAKES TIME FOR PEOPLE TO SEE THE MONSTERS FOR WHAT THEY ARE AND IT IS YOUR JOB TO HELP HIM !!
I KNOW THE DUCH ARE DOING A GREAT JOB IN IRAQ HELPING TO FIGHT THESE MONSTERS!!
IT IS YOUR PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO VOTE TO STOP THE FLOW OF MULSUMS I KNOW SPAIN WAS THE LOUDEST SPOKES PEOPLE UNTIL THEIR ELECTION??
YOU LIBS ARE ALL THE SAME AS LONG AS IT IS ON SOMEONES DOORSTEP YOU HAVE ALL THESE OPINIONS BUT WHEN IT HAPPEN ON YOUR DOOR YOU CRY WHY WAS NOTHING DONE???
WELL DO SOMETHING GET BEHIND SOMEONE WHO WILL FIGHT THIS FIGHT!! SOUNDS LIKE YOUR MINSTERS IS DOING THAT!!
YOU CAN GET THE PEOPLE THE INFO BEFOR YOU ARE TAKEN OVER!!
GERMANY FEW YEARS BACK MADE IT THAT TURKS WHO HELD 2 PASPORTS LOST BENNYS DON'T KNOW HOW THIS HAS WORKED SOUNDED SILLY TO ME JUST LEAVES THE PROBLEM IN PLACE BUT I KNOW SOME DID LEAVE THE COUNTRY?
THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM AROUND THE WORLD BUT GIVE THE PEOPLE INFO THIS IS THE BEST THING AND IF YOUR PEOPLE ARE UNARMMED THEN ARM THEM...
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and All who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
PS
YOU HAVE FOUND APEASMENT DOES NOT WORK AND BUSH IS RIGHT YOU HAVE TO FIGHT THEM OVER THERE AND IN YOUR CASE OVER HERE!!
Nearly 1 million Muslims live in the Netherlands, about 5.5 percent of the population.
Put this killer on trial and examine every motive and reason why this happened. I think we all know why but many people apparently don't.
5.5% is a fairly small minority. Make a big deal out of this like here in the States with the Scott Peterson trial. You need a good prosecutor to ask all the right questions, then the jury needs to put him away for the rest of his life.
Any more problems, get tougher and start deporting them. Easy for me to say but if Van Gogh was any relation to me I'd be demanding justice. Even if he was'nt a relative someone needs to get justice for VanGogh, don't cha think?
I've tried to emphasize recently the violent nature of individal moslems one might encounter on the street if one were to pass out info-sheets on the nature of Islam. It's a dangerous thing to do, and there's been no line-up of volunteers to take on the task. Rightly so; it's the work of men who can cope with the concrete details of enraged men with knives and clubs. This ain't the work for a mom of four or a gal in a short skirt.
Awareness-raising isn't the work of debaters either. In fact,there's no need to raise anyone's awareness: I argue here that in spite of over 200 years of voting and liberal democracy Americans in particular have lost the feel for the State as Predator, but that for single men in single situations it's an intuition they can grasp immediately, no argument required, and that the present evidence of our enemy being Islam is all too clear; that to leaflet and survive the afternoon is to create the beginnings of the alien concept in America of candestine networks; that individual Moslems are not our most dangerous opponents but that our greatest enemy is islam itself, a thing not defeated by removing from our world a few individuals. To meet the converted to plan strategically our greater moves is a plan worth effecting. A leafleting campaing isn't worth while if it's meant to gather the undecided, but it is to bring together those who are ready now to join in a cause they can make plans for concretely. to stand on a corner is to advertize one's readiness to lead others like-minded into a larger stategic move. Americans don't think in terms of secret police and death squads. But to enter into the counter-world that is the fight against islam on the street, yes, it asks that one be fully equiped to deal with armed men. No one should assume there's any gain in converting people to that position. If they're not there already, find those who are.
They might come for ours, and what then will we do if we start from where we are now? Al-Banna had a working solution that outlived him. what do we have? I still firmly beleive that if capable men leaflet to gain recruits to a larger and growing candestine network that regardless of individual losses we might suffer, the fight against islam will continue on, grow, and triumph. It's not a task for intellectuals but for street fighters. It's not a task that requires us to harm any individual but to be able to survive an assault on the street. Our thinkers and writers here supply us daily with beautiful copy that we could use to our benefit to recruit men into a counter movement that in no way is at odds with our governments. We will not have to stoop to acts of violence against any man in particular because our fight isn't against the man but the ideology, and no number of dead men will stop the ideology. They will come for our, surely, and we have to be prepared for it. Organize, as Joe Hill did say, don't agonize.
Do we try to include our Russian comrades even though their government blusters in response to Beslan? Do we contact our indian cousins though the best they can do is sack a few mosques? Do we sit tight and wait for Iranians to overthrow their government on their won rather than assist them, thereby making them hate us rather than their mullahs? Let's focus on our goal, if ever we can come up with one. In the meantime, I suggest again a campaign of leafleting for the express purpose of attracting men and women already convinced of the rightness of the cause, people who ask only to know where to go and what tasks to perform.
Our Moslem cousins will kill some of us who take up that challenge. That's the price one pays for life.
there's been no line-up of volunteers to take on the task. Rightly so; it's the work of men who can cope with the concrete details of enraged men with knives and clubs. This ain't the work for a mom of four or a gal in a short skirt.
In the meantime, I suggest again a campaign of leafleting for the express purpose of attracting men and women already convinced of the rightness of the cause, people who ask only to know where to go and what tasks to perform.
Our Moslem cousins will kill some of us who take up that challenge. That's the price one pays for life.
Posted by: sonofwalker at November 3, 2004 08:37 PM
You have it almost right but remember info is important and this gal in a short skirt is a real good shot and a hunter!!
the best way for the papers is puting stuff from their book most people will be shocked to prepare for that storm!! and for those of you who have hate laws and can not say anything about mussis don't other than this is what mulsums believe!! If you get draged into court let the court see what is their book but the best way is the web make sure in the passed email that it is posted to delete prior address and send to non-mulsum friends like a chain letter!!!
Start an underground network! elect those who understand the problem? And are smart enough to know what to do without starting the war before you are ready!!
Don't know why you would think we don't understand the secert police?
Europe you need to get busy and Protect your people!!
Cross you get a gold star for the day!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight and give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who SUPPORT them Open the Eyes of the World to their Threat and give them Courage to Fight Amen
PS
Europe you need to go back to God! Ask hm for help against this Evil!!
sonofwalker, excellent idea. I have been throwing around the idea of printing little slips of paper with the name of this website. To hand out where? Maybe leave on tables at campus cafeterias and computer places... Is a mass mail out possible? Can we get address lists and mail from a variety of places?
If there was no misinformation in a flier about Islam, would it be illegal to mail? For safety purposes, it would be better to do it anonymously. Maybe this is a stupid idea, but I have been trying to think of ways to alert others without putting myself and my family in harm's way. I truly admire (Christian) martyrs but I do not desire to be one.
" I have been throwing around the idea of printing little slips of paper with the name of this website. To hand out where?"
How about small stickers that can be left on buses, trains, subway stations, anywhere where thousands of commuters will see them every day?
Something we hear a lot at JW and related sites is: Why isn't our government doing anything about Islamic penetration? Why won't they even admit there's a problem?
We see that with the Dutch government after this murder. Much wringing of hands and appeals for calm and then...of course, nothing.
I was thinking...how about an ONLINE PETITION to western governments? Asking, for instance --
a) Why are they allowing people with a hostile incompatible ideology to move into our countries by the tens of thousands?
b) What are they going do to address the legitimate concerns of the host population?
They can ignore individual letters and emails, but it's going to be a lot harder to ignore hundreds of thousands of concerned citizens.
Any thoughts?
Benelux--I like the sticker idea. Will have to think how to pay for them...and then how to get them to people who live in bigger cities than me. Here we all drive cars!
I am sure many people would sign such a petition. Question is: who spearheads it? Maybe it could be on this or a related website?
former liberal WF -
I had a 1000 address stickers printed for the equivalent of about 10 bucks. They were pretty small though. My guess is around $20/25.
I like the petition idea. It would need someone who knows about websites to supervise it. *Thinks* - maybe Charles at LGF ?
I wonder how different it would be if Theo had a gun? Or did his killer have the cowardice to attack him from behind? This kind of attack is yet another reason to support the second amendment here.
But I digress from the point I wanted to make.
The amount of people involved in such radical views as to take them to violence for those views in the Jewish and Christian religions are a scant few. Granted, some churches in the past have done heinous things.... but in recent history.... for the name of their church, prophet, or god?..... I don't think so... not recently.
This is compared to the almost 150 Million followers under extremist ideologies?
Did I hear that right? 150 Million? That's more than the entire armed forces of the West!
And some people say this isn't a threat? I say it would be just on the sheer numbers alone, given how violent they are. And if this is just an example, then we can at least expect 50 million of these murderous fiends... maybe less maybe more. If we took the conservative estimate of 35 million... well that's still more than the enitre armed forces of the west!
Something must be done. I'm just glad the guy who's got the guts to do it is still in office.
1. The murderer of Pim Fortuyn (Volkert van der G.) was not doing it for the Dutch muslims, but for furry animals and the environment.
2. The murderer of Theo van Gogh (Mohammed B.) was actually born in the Netherlands and not 'invited in'
That having said:
5% of the Dutch population has the Islamic faith and a large part of those is able to coexist peacefully with others. I see NO need to inflame the moderate supporters of Islam. This might in fact prove to be countereffective.
Fundamentalistic muslims (and christians and racists for that matter) have to be taken care of of course.
In the mean time we have to stop the ever increasing polarisation between the different groups in order to maintain a peaceful and more or less frictionless coexistance. No need for a full scale war against Islam.
Heine