‘The West needs to understand it is inevitable: Islam is coming back’

When I say that Islam has always been inherently political, Muslim spokesmen say that I don’t know anything about Islam, or hate Muslims, or some such nonsense. But when Muslims say it, they say nothing. The silence of “moderate” Muslim leaders in the face of radical Islamic theology is speaking volumes: either they are unwilling or unable to refute the radicals. From The Guardian, with thanks to Ali Dashti:

The east London hall echoes to the sound of the speaker’s voice: “They want us to redefine Islam to fit the agenda of the west,” he intones, and the audience murmurs. “Islam is going to be political, no matter how hard they try. Islam itself is political. Allah has not remained silent when it comes to political matters.”

The speaker is a member of Hizb ut Tahrir, the most controversial Islamic group in Britain today. Critics have called for the group to be banned, as it is in Germany, while supporters hail it as the saviour of the Muslim community. Hizb – the name means Party of Liberation in Arabic – is banned throughout the Middle East, and three British men are in jail in Egypt accused of propagating its views. In Uzbekistan, thousands of Hizb members are in jail, and a Russian thinktank has compared the group to al-Qaida.

Eighteen months ago, the group briefly appeared in the public eye when the wife of Omar Sharif, the Briton who launched a failed suicide-bomb attack in Tel Aviv, was found to have leaflets from the group in her home. Hizb ut Tahrir also has a presence on university campuses, where it has been accused of anti-semitism.

Until recently, the leadership of Hizb was secretive and cautious, reluctant to release details of the scale of its membership, its leadership structure or its funding. One ex-member who spent years with the group says there are probably only 500 members across the country, but the group may have 10 times that number as committed supporters. Hizb’s annual conference in Birmingham last year attracted about 8,000, by the far the most for a Muslim organisation….

The leader of the group, a 28-year-old IT consultant called Jalaluddin Patel, is the first leader in its 18-year history in the UK to speak to the national press. He says Hizb has nothing to hide but will not release membership figures: “It’s a genuine security issue. We’re unsure about the manner in which western society would treat a group like ours.”

Patel insists that Hizb is no threat to the west, but part of it. But he adds that the west “needs to understand what is really an inevitable matter, and that is that Islam is coming back, the Islamic caliphate is going to be implemented in the world very soon … The Muslim people need to realise that the way in which they will restore a form of dignity and bring civilisation back to the Islamic world is to establish a modern caliphate.”

Why has this group not been banned? Do British officials think that they mean for the caliphate to waft into Britain on a summer breeze?

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Comments

  1. says

    “The Muslim people need to realise that the way in which they will restore a form of dignity and bring civilisation back to the Islamic world is to establish a modern caliphate.”

    “Modern caliphate” – talk about oxymorons. What could be further from modernity than restoring a 7th Century theocratic monarchy-dictatorship?

  2. says

    Banning this group is like putting a Band aid on a festerning sore. Or plugging one hole in a dyke, only to have another spring elsewhere.

    Patel is right. By the time Britain wakes up Islam will be too powerful to stop.

    Meanwhile in the Vatican, officials have released a statement calling for God’s mercy on a person of “illustrious” mention, Yasser Arafat.

    Dhimmitude everywhere. It’s like wack-a-mole, you hammer it down but it springs up somewhere else.

  3. says

    Silence is often misinterpreted, but never misquoted. The Hisb leader is a 28 year old who may be feeling confident enough now to have bragging rights about his group. I think many leaders in the Arab and middle east countries think of themselves as caliphates. The last caliphate was brought down around 1916 at the start of world war 1. There has been a continuous movement to restore that all encompassing leadership ever since.

  4. says

    I’ve e-mailed this article to the Sun for what it’s worth, the Sun and the Daily Star are always exposing some muslim hate group or another but it doesn’t seem to make much difference politically…. nation-wide however it’s a different story. It’s getting more evident all the time that people are waking up to islams threat , and more and more are getting concerned about it’s presence and it’s motives.

    Andrew, don’t take that defeatist attitude, there are a lot more britons than you think that are clued up now. I’ve been visiting a lot of UK blogs lately where islam is a critical issue. Of course there are still the ignorant lefties screaming “racist” and other shite, but they get laughed off stage. Even George Galloways (the champagne socialist gimp who was in on the oil-for-food scam with Saddam)forum has been hi-jacked by a group of right-wingers (myself being one of them). And then you’ve got to look at the fact that the BNP (since their draconian banning) have almost become martyrs, as many, even those that disagree with the BNPs view, can see the injustice in them being banned, while islamic hate-preachers (such as the dirt mentioned in this article) are allowed to continue unchallenged.

    If it is the case that islam will be too powerful by the time the UK public “wake up”, then we’ve got a fight on our hands, a fight that we must fight (I know I will, and I’ll fight it passionately and until my last breath is drawn…to the death, and I’ll make damn sure I take as many of those facist bastards with me as humanly possible), and a fight that I’m confident will be eventully win, because Britain has never given up to oppressors, and never will… RULE BRITANNIA.
    A great battle across Europe would then follow, and islam itself would be the target, no ifs and buts, and in the future hopefully no civilization would ever allow the stupid laws, political correctness and uncontrolled immigration of foreigners (especially ones who may have an agenda religious or otherwise), ever again (well I’d have thought after WW2, it wouldn’t have been allowed again… but evidently, we haven’t learnt that much, or islam wouldn’t have got this far.

  5. says

    The intellectual and moral confusion that dominates those who currently hold power is the gap which such islamists and demented ideologies are driving through, like a Mack truck. The ruling elite and intelligensia are very flower of the moral dissonance that rings loudly throuh all western societies.

    How bankrupt we are indeed, lacking the power to distinguish right from wrong, friend from foe. Its little wonder these people believe they’re winning, who else can proclaim this jihad nonsense from the streets while they’re critics are either in hiding or wearing masks out fear. Thats how you tell if you’r winning a war, by who’s afraid of who.

    Who’s really winning folks, when the dutch police sandblast one of the ten commandments at the behest of a worshipper of satan.

  6. says

    RIKKI

    Thank for reminding me that all is not lost. I agree with you that there is a great battle looming ahead of us, only a fool could deny that. But I am not so sure we will prevail only because this is a multi-dimensional struggle. First, the immigration is out of control. I don’t have to tell you than entire neighborhoods in Britain are unrecognizable as British, hundreds of cities in France no longer accept French standards and are considered Muslim cities or no-go zones.

    So one element is immigration certainly. The second is multiculturism which destroys our will to BELIEVE that our heritage, culture and religious traditions are even worth fighting for.

    Now Europe is beginning to reap the rewards for 30 years of willful ignorance. I just don’t see how our Western values can survive when we reject Western principles in favor of liberalism.

    Islam has only to assume political power and a larger Islamic population. When that threshold is met, even those mythical moderate Muslims will be powerless to stop Shari’a.

    I think Islam will defeat Britannica (impossible not to hear “Rule Britannia, Britannia rules, the waves….”). I think Islam will defeat America, I think mainland Europe will be Islamic by centuries end as does Bertrand Russell. But I also think we stand a better chance if we can stop the media from white-washing Islamism and purposefully switching the topic to racism. Muslims, very sorry to say, are the most homogenously intolerant people in the world today. But it is their culture that makes them so, it is their civilizational development that makes them so. Depositing them into the West in the hopes that they will accept Western plurality will not work, ESPECIALLY when assimilation is not demanded and there is a flood of immigrants either waiting, or firmly entrenched in Islamic ghettos throughout the world.

    Occupied Europe out.

  7. says

    I think that the devil in this case is most definitely in the detail. From our leftie friends at the Guardian, a tacit admission:

    “Hizb’s annual conference in Birmingham last year attracted about 8,000, BY FAR THE MOST FOR A MUSLIM ORGANISATION….”

    So… an extremist jihadist group gets a higher attendance BY FAR than any other Muslim group.

    Anyone care to speculate on the implications of this statement, in particular with regard to how “tiny” the “minority” of antagonisers, Jihadists and extremists is???

  8. says

    I have been logged in for awhile now, and the sense of fear is starting to prevail. It really disturbs me to see how we are allowing this group to bring out some of the thoughts and ideas that they do. I pray to GOD that He will allow us to be stronger in what we belief so that we may continue to see what is happening around us. That we are allowing this to happen scares me the most. Let us be allert, and ready to defend our beliefs.

  9. says

    ANTIJIHADIST

    Don’t jump to conclusions. The 8000 strong army of Islam in Britain only represents a very tiny, minscule, subterrainian, insignificant and nono-relevant portion of Muslims. We must keep things in perspective.

    LLL/

  10. says

    FHC

    I think the problem is not us being willing to defend our belief, it’s the politicians and media who are allowing this to happen. They seem to be accomplices to the suicide of our civilization as if its demise would somehow exclude them.

  11. says

    Andrew:

    I posted the following to you the other day on another thread; you may have missed it:

    No doubt, it will be bloody. But WE WILL win, because the march of progress and enlightenment is inevitable, despite temporary setbacks. For more on this topic, I recommend cubed’s article “Why Is Islam So Different? An Overview” at 6thcolumnagainstjihad.com.

    cubed’s (a regular JW/DW contributor) article

    Gently I remind you that this forum is not the appropriate place to display your pessimism about our Cause, as it will be posted to jihadist websites and will gladden the heart of the ummah. Is that what you really want to do?

  12. says

    I remember giving a party at home when my parents were away when I was a teenager. You invite your friends to come over. When word gets out, it’s not long afterwards when you have uninvited guests dropping in. I found that univited guests caused a lot of damage in the home.There was no contolling it except that the police had to be called.

    This is what muslims are like. The come to our country “univited” and cause chaos everywhere. Just like cockroaches invading an apartment.

  13. says

    I remember giving a party at home when my parents were away when I was a teenager. You invite your friends to come over. When word gets out, it’s not long afterwards when you have uninvited guests dropping in. I found that univited guests caused a lot of damage in the home.There was no contolling it except that the police had to be called.

    This is what muslims are like. The come to our country “univited” and cause chaos everywhere. Just like cockroaches invading an apartment.

  14. says

    Here is their website:

    http://www.khilafah.com/home/

    I read it quite regularly as I like to know what these people are thinking. The articles tend to run along these lines:

    1 The West is really bad.
    2 Islam is the solution.

    To ‘prove’ that the West is really bad, they often quote Western sources, such as The Economist or the World Health Organisation. They never make the connection between Western self-criticism, so absent in the Muslim world, and the evident superiority of the Western world in all aspects of human rights. Instead they just take Western self criticism at its face value and Muslim silence on its own shortcomings as meaning that the Muslim world is perfect.

    When it comes to the second half of their ‘argument’, that Islam is the solution, they have very little to say beyond simply asserting this as a fact. They rarely say how Islam would solve the problems or comment on the fact that the Muslim world has all the problems of the Western world and a whole lot more besides. If they do propose a solution it is to say something like ‘Under Islam, capitalism would be abolished and everyone would share wealth’ – a kind of sub-Marxist piece of twaddle.

  15. says

    If anyone here is tempted to view the coming Islamification of Europe as “their problem,” think again.

    What’s the one thing we worry the most about with respect to a radical Islamic government? That it might get its hands on advanced weaponry.

    Remember, France and Great Britain both possess significant stockpiles of nuclear weapons, along with the aircraft, missiles and submarines to deliver them.

    There is no way we can allow those weapons to fall into the hands of Muslims. This is most definitely OUR problem.

  16. says

    Islamists see the freedoms that the western world allows as their ticket to be able to openly express and perpetuate their totalitarian beliefs.

    Most intellectual muslims do not see the approach of a militant Islam as being an effective tool to one day take over the western countries with the establisment of a caliphate.

    Since they recognize that their populations are in minorities in western countries, they seek to get involved in the countries political processes and rub shoulders with government officials as well as the court systems, they teach at our universities,go to our prisons where they seek converts to their causes. They become lawyers and civic leaders and still dream of a islamic world under sharia law, and run by a caliphate.

    The problem they will always have is that as Islam is entrenched in their collective souls, so is the freedom from totalitarism and the freedom to practice other religions deeply entrenched in the souls of western society.

  17. says

    Andrew-
    The dynamics are much different here in the States. First of all, the immigrants pouring over our borders are predominantly Catholic Latinos, not Middle Eastern and North African Muslims. Secondly, our country has long been more conservative than the social democracies of Western Europe. Finally, and most importantly, it should not be lost on anyone that it is the United States that is leading the fight against the global jihad (with thanks to all our unilateral allies – most notably your own country).
    I would also add that we are fortunate to have voices such as Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, Andrew Whitehead and David Horowitz sounding the alarm before we get neck deep into the problems that Europe is drowning in. We are DETERMINED not to let that happen.

  18. says

    Maybe Britan needs to have their own ‘Theo Van Gogh day’. But it seems they’ve lost their sense of self preservation. Something that we still have here in the US despite the Leftie tree huggers who pride themselves in being no better than walking fecal matter.

  19. says

    All of this work Robert, Hugh, and the rest of us do, and good ol’ George W had Muslims over for dinner at the White House last night.

    I voted for Bush, because Kerry is a waste of oxygen. However, I’m certainly hoping Congress will halt his blinded view that Islam is peaceful, and that illegal Mexicans should be granted amnesty……These two issues certainly devalue American citizenship, not to mention irritate the American taxpayers, you know….the majority?

  20. says

    If you don’t think the dhimmitization is complete, then why has the world’s press collectively ignored the fact that the “palestinian cause” has been led by a depraved homosexual, who died from AIDS?

    The media has never resisted that impulse to out anyone else, except for the old murderer. The islamists have the ear of elites world wide, who always wins when society battles against them?

    Count on it, nothing short of revolution will turn back islamification. Holland is the ultimate lab rat, the furthest along on liberal dialectic. See how the media and government are conspiring to impose even greater insanity. Less than one week later and its the muslims who are now portayed as the legitimate victims of Dutch inhospitality. How dare any fight back, after all we’re muslims???

  21. says

    What is W thinking? I know that this very thing gave me nightmares before the election. The amnesty thing is going to cause a new wave of illegals to rush the border. It’s a neat trick if you can do it , isn’t it… just send your poor people to the neighboring country. The being all lovey dovey with muslims is really troubling, I don’t understand what the idea is, now is the time to tell muslims that we will not accept their caliphate, not cozy up to them.

  22. says

    Here is the main website for Hizb ut-Tahrir:

    http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/

    They also run several other groups and websites under various names.

    I recommend everyone read their literature. It is very well written, and the language is very clear.

    Documents that should not be missed are:

    The American Campaign to Suppress Islam
    http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/books/pdfs/american_campaign.pdf

    Dangerous Concepts – to Attack Islam and Consolidate the Western Culture
    http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/books/pdfs/dangerous_concepts.pdf

    The Inevitability of the Clash of Civilisation
    http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/books/clashofcivilisation/clashofcivilisation.pdf

    Method of Hizb ut-Tahrir for Change
    http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/books/pdfs/method_for_revival.pdf

    In the document “Method of Hizb ut-Tahrir for Change” they describe their method for indoctrinating members of this cult in small “study groups”, until they “respond intellectually and emotionally” as a proper muslim. They further go on to describe how these cells of indoctrinated individuals will then spread out into society to further the goals of the cult, until they can reach a critical mass, all based on “the method of Muhammed”.

  23. says

    No politician dare take even a vaguely anti-islamic stance – he/she would be dead by morning.

    Few newspapers or other print media want to have a Rushdie situation on their hands, with employees, editors, distributors in fear for their lives.

    Reuters have already stated that their reporters cannot tell the truth about arab/islamic countries, movements, events, because retribution would fall on all reuters people in the arab/islamic world, as in ‘ our reporters would not be safe’.

    Between the fear instilled by murders like Van Goghs, fatwas/death threats, property attacks, and the results of huge sums paid, essentially bribes to large business interests, reporters, politicians,

    our goose will soon be cooked.

    Long past time to wake up.

    There can be no peace in this world with islam.

  24. says

    I must apologize for temporarily polluting this thread with words coming from bottom feeders, but I just pulled this article. Some people will never learn, or change. I suppose we should’ve never expected them to mention that this corpse was a terrorist murdering fiend during his time on earth……

    (WASHINGTON, D.C., 11/11/04) – A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group today offered its condolences to the Palestinian people
    on the death of President Yasser Arafat.

    ****** also said
    that U.S. support for the Palestinian people’s right to justice and freedom from occupation is an essential prerequisite for peace in the Middle East
    and is a key factor in winning the war on terror.

    In its statement, ***** *** said:

    “***** offers it sincere condolences to the Palestinian people on the death of President Yasser Arafat. We come from God and to God we return.

    “President Arafat was the embodiment of the Palestinian struggle for justice and freedom. His death should prompt all parties to the Middle East conflict to reinvigorate any efforts that could lead to peace with justice in the region. In particular, the United States must reexamine its Middle Eastern policy and refocus on helping to free the Palestinian people from
    Israeli occupation.

    “As many objective observers have stated, the United States’ seeming indifference to the plight of the Palestinian people is one of the main causes for anti-American feeling in the Muslim world. A just resolution to the Middle East conflict would be a key factor in winning the war on terror. It is in America’s interest to promote freedom for all people, including the Palestinians.”

    ***** ***** ‘s mission is to enhance understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding.

    ( A just resolution to the Middle East conflict would be a key factor in winning the war on terror. It is in America’s interest to promote freedom for all people, including the Palestinians.”)——–Is this a threat?

  25. says

    Messers Andrew and Rikki,

    I am genuinely concerned for the welfare of your great grandchildren. If Britian is going to be Islamic by the end of the centuary (Mr. Andrew thinks it is a foregone conclusion) where are your great grand childern going to live.

    You are gonna “educate” them about the dangers of Islam so they won’t want to be near Muslims ..so where are they gonna shop.

    British Home stores opps…did you mean “Islamic home stores” owned by Muhammed “Green” Bibi?

    Or perhaps Top Shop …opps did you mean Tiq-yia shop.

    Marks and Spencer perhaps…wrong again it’s called Abdal & Ahmed, Britain’s top shop retailers….selling the best quality scarves, jilbabs, Shararas, punjabi suits and Hijabs….with the odd skirt as this helps their profits.

    Hmmmmm…. yeaaas I think I can see your dilemma…and the answer…opps too late Britain has too many Islamic MPs and a Muslim prime minister.

    All mosques now have call to prayers and the prime minister himself frequently interrupts prime minesterial meetings as he needs to pray.

    Oh! and now nobody dare challenge Islamic authority as muslims have their pulse on nucleur weapons the “West” developed a time ago!

    Yes, sir I can really start to see your dilemma, the future muslim leaders will laugh when they hear that their forefathers were struggling against Western armies in Iraq in 2004… that was when the USA (now the ISA) & Britian were in power …Oh well! that was was a loooong time ago.

    Oh! and let’s not forget to lay the red carpet out at 10 Downing St today …..the Caliphate is going to visit Britain today.

  26. says

    Islam never left. They sat on the sidelines in the M.E. until petro dollars gave them the wherewithall to make a move. And forgetful Western governments and large corporations invited them in to act as “guest workers.” Muliiculturalists have shown them the way and demographics have provided them with human fodder for jihad.

    To use a sports analogy: they have grabbed up the ball and are running for the goal posts marked “Caliphate.” Our team doesn’t seem to have hired savvy coaches or recruited the best players to make a counter play!

  27. says

    Very amusing fantasy of the future. Sorry I danced in on this. Look at it this way naseemsayer, let’s do a version of musical chairs only larger and call it musical continents where all islamics move to western countries and all westerners move to what are now islamic countries. The “new Western” formally the East, will become the powers centers of the world while the islamics will completely screw up all the western countries that they moved into. A once prosperious US would become another poverty stricken hellhole like all the other islamic countries are today.

    …scarves, jilbabs, Shararas, punjabi suits and Hijabs hahaha thats so true, and if an American wanted to produce that shit it would be better than anything a damn islamic could make. haha your funny.

  28. says

    Mike:

    Don’t overlook the contribution by the Saudis who, in the last 20 years or so, have built mosques all over the world and staffed them with imams who preach the most extremist Islamic line.

    Naseem:

    You aren’t genuinely concerned about anything except trumpetting the non-existant virtues of Islam and the vastly exaggerated rapidity of its spread. There’s nothing terribly impressive about an identifiable group that has both the highest birthrate and the lowest literacy rate.

  29. says

    Now that I think of it, not a bad idea. We could pack all our industry and move it to Iran and turn America into one big food producer and let all you islamics with a herder mentality tend the farms for us. We will take care of you and you can live in peace and do our farming for us. Would you be willing to do that? You can prey 50 times a day if you want, just get those crops done.

  30. says

    Naseem-
    I don’t want to keep you from your afternoon beating, but tell us, what is it like to be chattel? Is that why you prattle around about Muslim superiority – to compensate for your own miserable inferiority?

  31. says

    Its all talk. And what Naseem says will never happen. It is not logically possible in the US. Not when there are US citizens like us in this world.

  32. says

    As a Brit first and a European 2nd I don’t think we should underestimate the power of the unheard masses. The liberal elite and Saudi backed corporations that spin world events into manufactured products are still a tiny minority in our societies. When the personal freedoms we take for granted e.g. a trip to the pub are threatened the general public will wake up. The problem now is that too many are sleeping while the storm gathers and our PC politicians are out of touch with huge swathes of the population. That pompous oaf, Home Secretary, David Blunkett even had the gall to call the older generation “incurably racist”. Instead, he should have said something about their incredible courage in the face of overwhelming odds or their grim determination to stand up for the rights of free people everywhere, when all seemed lost.

  33. says

    NASEEM

    I will respond this once and final time to your post mocking the genuine concerns for the future of my civilization, country and culture.

    I take it you are either an agitator of bad will between Muslims and all the rest or you are acting in the spirit of Muslim imperialism which is conquering Britain, main land Europe, America and Australia as well as Canada.

    I can understand your glee Naseem, for you are, I am making an assumption here, a Nihilistic vandal. By that I mean you speak as though you relish the death of the West and yet you speak as though you live in the UK. So am I to conclude that you are a contradiction with no capacity for human decency or strength of character?

    Your limited abilities prevent you from seeing the unique condition you find yourself in. You are a slave to your tribe (I make no charges here), you seem to really believe by your comments that the pleasure you feel now will outlast the realities of Shari’a in Europe. I urge you to consider otherwise, just take an object look at the status of the entire Islamic world and you will see that it is dysfunctional.

    While I am sure you are as disturbed as I about Western decadence, excesses and hedonism, ask yourself Naseem what was the reasons for Islamic violence against the infidels long before there was MTV or Brittney Spears. I think you will agree it is a civilizational difference that is too great to be surmounted by the veneer of multiculturalism and tolerance. Those concepts only work in favor of those who hate our Western civilization and wish to undermine it.

    That’s where people like you come in. It is impossible to know what you really think or know or feel over the internet. But if your mocking taunts are any indication, you are representative of all that erects obstacles to any real solution to the very real danger that we ALL face.

    Muslims given the trust and allowed the privilege to reside in our homes in the West are basically in true fashion expected from their Mohammedan belief system demonstrating that their character is indeed suspect as they understandably relate only to their flawed belief system. You know, the one which keeps virtually every Islamic society on this earth under the shackles of poverty, illiteracy and above all else violence. Additionally, wherever Islam appears in sufficient strength it, like a predator, seeks supremacy.

    So Naseem gloating about the fact that Europe in all of its sophisticated arrogance and self assurance thought that it could control the MONSTER that it brought upon itself does nobody any good. Least of all you who either is willing to accept dhimmitude from the heathens OR is willing to hope against all evidence that the society of your home country from which you fled can be duplicated in a Western country with different results. The definition of that Naseem is insanity.

    Toddles.

    Bernard Lewis:
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/685ozxcq.asp

  34. says

    To all US farmers, please forgive me if I said anything offensive about farming. You will be made Overlords of the new islamic farm surfs.

  35. says

    Hey I know quite a few farmers and i am part way one myself. Why do we have to be overlords why can’t we move to the middle east also? Its warmer there. With all of our agriculture expertise we could probably bring the garden of Eden back. haha

  36. says

    Great! All US farmers get to go to Iran. No problem, we will just appoint some other islamics instead who would just love to get the chance to be an Overlord. They would get to whip and beat some other islamic farmers that are not fullfilling their daily quotas, or for any other reason they feel like whipping and beating somebody.

  37. says

    Mr Andrew, Mr. Cross,

    It seems that I managed to eh..”pissed you off somewhat” and I am sorry about that. It was you who talked about being Europe/USA beng Islamic by the end of the centuary not me. I merely helped you along to complete a vision that you didn’t want to see.

    You assume a lot about me so I’ll clarify. I am a muslim woman. I was brought up & schooled in the UK, but I married & live in in Pakistan, two children. I do frequent to the UK, it’s my favourite “kafir” place.

    I don’t understand your contradictions. First of all you talk about inherenet Muslim superiority and in the next breath you talk about the low life scum that we are… I read it every day by lots of postees. So..which one is it surely it cannot be both, that’s a contradiction in terms!

    I don’t talk about inherent superiority, I don’t feel it, instead I see muslims treated like dirt, but you are the primary ones that complain that it is not enough.

    “Stab them, kill them, burn them, shoot them, bomb them, nuke them, you scum live because we choose to let you live”…that’s what I read EVERYDAY… and only someone who *themselves* feel superior would say that.

    And Mr. Andrew it has been like that for generations, I don’t feel superior , I only know that Muhammed (pbuh) has has ingrained and integrated Allah’s message to our souls. That is not superiority …it’s just fact…it is you who *chooses* to interpret that view as superior.

    Me I don’t feel superior, but I can fantasise and you don’t even like that!

    Pity, there still so much we need to learn from each other!

    Sirs, Allah Akbar!

  38. says

    :-O ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz snort, wiping the drool off my mouth.

    While I was napping waiting for your reply, I had a dream, a vision if you will, that when I awoke and asked this question you would give me a straight answer.

    The question is: As a woman, how do you excuse all the bad things muhammad says in your holy book about the treatment of women? Very simple question. I’ve included just 3 out of many printed passages for you. Your comment is appreciated. I will now resume my nap and check back in a hour or so for your reply.

    Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

    Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, “Yes.’ He said, “This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.'”

  39. says

    Hello Naseem

    How often does your husband beat you?

    Do you support Hizb-ut-Tahrir and its politics and aims and interpretation of Islam?

    Much love and thanks

  40. says

    Naseem

    What is a Punjabi suit? It’s just that I have a very good Sikh friend and he is Punjabi and I can tell you, the Sikhs in England are very trenchant in their criticisms of Islamic lunatics like the ones featured in the Guardian website here, and also of the nasty black hearted fascism and bigotry they preach and is aceded to by nasty people like you.

    Why is everyone pissed off with you people? Not just Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Zoroastrians and Buddhists in Thailand and Nepal but animists and probably goat worshipers in outer Mongolia think you are nasty.

    Whats up Naseem?

  41. says

    A break is calling me so I won’t wait for Naseem to compose a reply in such a way that attempts to justify what we already know.

    On a side note that Naseem and many other muslims may or may not know, choose to beleive or not or are just sheepishly going along with the islam program, thinking they will benefit somehow from it is this. Islam is not a religion. It is not a how to guide to live ones life on a day to day basis.

    What islam is: It’s a cloak or smokescreen that is used by a political machine to covertly spread a political agenda. In essense, islam is a “Trojan Horse”. These horses are parked right now in several EU countries back yards as well as here in the US. As soon as enough “horses” are in place well you know the rest.

  42. says

    Naseem:

    The Western world has absolutely zero to ‘learn’ from Muslims.

    Can you tell us what you think we should learn?
    Should we emulate the following examples of Islamic ‘civilisation’?

    * hatred and oppression (not to mention genital mutilation) of females?

    * death sentences on those who disagree with your beliefs?

    * censorship of the slightest critism of Islam?

    * beheadings in the name of Allah?

    You could also answer the following question:

    If Islamic culture is so wonderful, why are so many of you living in western countries? Wouldnt you be happier in some Muslim paradise (like Pakistan)?

    I have no fear that Islam will ever be victorious over the West (I have my doubts about France, however)- it would be a case of ignorant fanatics taking on the most sophisticated civilisation the world has ever seen. Even if Islam won the battle tomorrow (fantasy!), the result would be that our countries would end up exactly like the Muslim backwaters we see today.

    Honestly, do posters here really believe that our societies could be run by people who think Barbie dolls are a Jewish plot to destroy them, and who think females are inferior?

    I know too many people who would fight to the death before they accepted Islam to ever believe in our possible defeat but maybe things are different in Europe and the UK.

  43. says

    Bernard Lewis offering the opinion that Europe will be Islamic by the end of the 21st century certainly doesn’t make it so.

    I remember environmental scientist Paul Erlich in the late 1960s/early 1970s solemnly predicting that the world’s oceans would be quite dead, devoid of fish, by the end of the 20th century. While there are some fish species that are endangered, and other types of environmental degradation, I’d say we’re a long way off from that. I could cite other examples of respected experts in various fields making dire predictions that fail to come to pass, particularly about petroleum resources, but I’m a bit tired.

    This is not to say that we should not be concerned about what Islamist extremists — or any other kinds of extremists whose first recourse to any grievance is to take up violence — wherever they rear their ugly heads. They are a menace to all humankind.

    As for anything useful we might have to learn from Naseem — only if we want to persue an exercise in identifying personality disorders and only very amateur psychologist-wannabes would venture to do so based on correspondence on a blog site.

  44. says

    Punjab – the cultural-linguistic region that is -is split in 2 (as is Bengal, btw). Between the moslem majority lands (now in Puke-istan and B’desh) and the hindu-sikh majority living in India.

    Punjabi is originally a sanskrit based tongue that was later corrupted by urdu and farsi. The sikhs, often referred to as the sword of hinduism – are a special warrior class of hindus who took up arms to defend hinduism from islamic depradations coming from thwe west 9i.e. from Persia and arabia).

    Hope that clears things up.

  45. says

    Have visited their Website where they are careful to avoid extremist language. Prose is predictable, rather pedantic and boring but their aims are the same as Muslim Brotherhood. They were behind court case of 16 yr old wanting to wear Islamic female[tent] to school and LOST.Dhimmi BBC refused to acknowledge Hizb was PUSHING AND SUPPORTING this fanatical 16yr old girl. Anyway, folks the battle has begun…The Nazis were defeated and these ‘New Nazis’ will be defeated too, not without a struggle but they shall NOT take our Western Lands !!Even is one isn’t a Christian wear a large cross prominently displayed to show Muslims the Last Crusade is in progress. If necessary, every Mosque in the West shall burn before the sign of the Cross yields to
    evil crescent of Islam and its Murderous Prophet.

  46. says

    Those whose experiences in athletics will tell that the greatest benefit of the experience is the visceral lesson that life is attitute, not ability. Little guys can defeat big guys everytime, though it’s physically impossible, simply because the little guy, if his attitude is positive, will not accept defeat. He might go down too, but he will not lose. And the athlete knows as well that the real champ geets back up and goes at it again, does not stop, and will not concede.

    My great and distant relative William, so deeply despised by those few who’ve even heard of him, had the inner vision and strength to last right up unyil the english shot him before a firing squad. Had they missed, he would have come back again.

    William Walker was not a good man. William Walker, for all the evils he committed, is still the truest model for modern men to follow in the pursuit of thew Human good, not by following in his footsteps like idiots, but by seeing his vision through our own eyes:

    Don’t think the loss of Europe is inevitable; the gain of the entire world is possible, and with the right attitude, certain, because no dying bulk of the world of the peasantry can withstand a determined and agressive West.

    To enslave the peasant world and crush them till them scream for mercy is completely within the means of the Western world. Our governments won’t do it. Nor can we from inside our own borders make such plans. but we can take over Saudi Arabia, for example, enslave the peasants, kill the resistence, marry the women, raise our children, and turn the wasteland of the peninsula into a free and prosperous land for all but the knuckle-biting haters sulking in the desert.

    Look what one man and his small army accomplished, over and over; and we, who cannot seem to pass out hand-bills without quaking, are his heirs. He was nothing that we are not. His attitude is the difference.

  47. says

    dragon,
    “As for anything useful we might have to learn from Naseem — only if we want to persue an exercise in identifying personality disorders and only very amateur psychologist-wannabes would venture to do so based on correspondence on a blog site.”

    I agree, sometimes it’s tempting to try to analyze the psycological motivation of a blog but there really is no way to properly analyze it because too many varibales are missing and or completely made up by some poster, so it really is an excerise in futility.

  48. says

    Re post by naseem 11-11 6:11

    Naseem says ” I only know that Muhammed has ingrained and integrated Allah’s message to our souls”.

    I have posted before, this belief I have regarding Islam but this the first confirmation I have that I may be right.

    That is, that I believe that after 1,400 years of Islamic indoctrination, the cultist religion is no longer just a belief system, it is now in the genetic makeup of the Muslim culture.

  49. says

    The pseudo prophet Muhammad’s 100 Year Prophecy (Bukhari I:539) failed to materialize also, but that doesn’t seem to bother muslims. The infallible, sinless, perfect prophet predicted that no one would be left on earth after one hundred years.
    No doubt the caliphs and mullahs cooked up a perfect excuse to explain his false prophecy, but I’m afraid I’ve never run across it.
    He made other assertions regarding the end of the world (Bukhari IV:401) and predicted certain tell-tale signals of impending quietus.
    My personal favorite hadiths Muslims have one intestine and non-muslims have seven. (Bukhari III:5113-5115) If you lift your eyes towards heaven while praying, they will be snatched out. Bukhari III:862-863) Black dogs are devils. (Bukhari IV:539-540 Adam was 60 cubits tall. (Bukhari IV:543) If Muhammad wasn’t deranged, he was surely on drugs.

  50. says

    You have been asking how we can spread the word regarding our fight against (radical) islam…

    I’ve got a suggestion. How many of you run / are planning to run a website?

    Even if you don’t run your own website it is pretty easy to get webspace these days and a dedicated domain won’t cost more than a few cents / pence a month. If all of us bought a domain / webspace and redirect it to jihadwatch.org this website would get a much bigger exposure.

    I’m running a website which gets about 500,000 pageviews a month (not as many as jihadwatch.org but it’s not too far away) and I’ve put a graphical link there even though my website is non-topical. We need to use the internet more in order to raise awareness, if you ask me.

  51. says

    I agree with waterdragon. The fat lady has not sung yet. Just because things look hopeless, it doesn’t mean that they are. When I start feeling down about the state of today’s world, I remember the story of David and Goliath, or the verses that say that one man will rout 50 in battle, five will rout five hundred and ten will rout 1,000. Impossible odds don’t mean a damn thing if you have G-d on your side.

    Yes, I know the Muslims believe they also have that, but I think Europe stands a chance if she rallies, rediscovers her faith in G-d and has the courage to do the impossible. The battle is not over yet.

    If I were to give a message, I would say “stand strong spread your knowledge and pray for deliverance.”

  52. says

    Naseem,
    You’ve become a bit of a troll of late you Reza wannabe.
    If you’re trying to wind me up you’ve failed, Andrew may have resigned the UKs fate to islam, but me and a massive number of brits are not simularly pessimistic.

    Before you gloat…think.
    If the UK ever did become islamic , all the freedoms you’ve enjoyed in the times of muslim red-carpet treatment will be long gone, not to mention the western education you received , replaced by the religious inconstructive religious balther of a sharia educational system.
    Leaving sluts like you to become either slaves to your husband or runaway crack whores, either way, you should be joining the good fight against your blood cult.

  53. says

    Voletti

    Many thanks for the information. My Sikh friend mentioned about the Jihad that was launched against the Sikhs and how their people were slaughtered by the thousand because they refused to convert to Islam, and how their leaders and gurus were also killed because they refused to convert to Islam.

    Whoops, slap my hand, that never happened, Islam is a peaceful religion.

    😀

  54. says

    People have said “any other kinds of extremists whose first recourse to any grievance is to take up violence — wherever they rear their ugly heads. They are a menace to all humankind”.

    I agree completely….everybody has to fight them…..my point is why do you have to dress all the muslims with this stereotyping! It’s just not fair.

    If necessary, every Mosque in the West shall burn before the sign of the Cross yields to evil crescent of Islam and its Murderous Prophet.

    This statement tells me that YOU are the ones preparing for a crusade. We just want to led our normal lives …but you won’t let us…you keep on talking about fighting….wot’s all that about?

    Another statement said “That is, that I believe that after 1,400 years of Islamic indoctrination, the cultist religion is no longer just a belief system, it is now in the genetic makeup of the Muslim culture”.
    My response “Oh… you poor thing…take some aspirins and sit in a dark corner, you’ll feel better soon”.
    Mr Mike asks “I don’t want to keep you from your afternoon beating, How often does your husband beat you”?
    LOL, your perceptions of women being beaten left right & centre is just BS. In twenty years of marriage I have NEVER ever been beaten by my husband. Why would he, we love each other. This is a stick that you constantly try & beat us with but it’s just over exaggerated plover.
    Mr. Rikki as for losing freedom if this happened, you are wrong, we would have an increased sense of freedom not less. I still remember that you wanted to “pass white hot rivets through my cheeks” those were your words when I first came to JW.
    You tried to hound me out of coming to JW, I wouldn’t be faced with that….I don’t want you to forget that…and as for your BJP….it’s just background noise.

  55. says

    Naseem,
    If it came to choosing between waqtching my country become an islamic republic or freedom, then I’d happily slaughter the lot of you, and convert your children to atheism or christianity, and my views are by no means the those of a small number of britons.
    What I’m saying Naseem is, if you’re not with us you’re against us (muslims who don’t wish to see Britain conquered by islam have nothing to fear, you on many occasions have proven yourself to not be among this number… and on others you have, in other words you are in no position to be pointing out other peoples contradictory statements).

  56. says

    Naseem,

    “Mr Mike asks “I don’t want to keep you from your afternoon beating, How often does your husband beat you”?
    LOL, your perceptions of women being beaten left right & centre is just BS. In twenty years of marriage I have NEVER ever been beaten by my husband. Why would he, we love each other. This is a stick that you constantly try & beat us with but it’s just over exaggerated plover.”

    So I take it you are sympathetic with the plight of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who DID have to run away from such violence when her parents tried to FORCE her into a marriage she didn’t want?!

  57. says

    Naseem (ad nauseum):

    Nobody has said that all Muslims are terrorists, but it was the retiring editor of one of the largest Arabic language newspapers in London, England who did say that, “all terrorists are Muslim” in response to the massacre at Beslam.

    If you are the subject of hostility and derision at this site, it’s because of the crap you write, like that Al-Jazeerah is an honest source of news. Yeah, sure. They broadcast 6 minutes worth of Osama’s latest 18 minute long video, cutting out the parts where he whines that the remmants of the Taliban couldn’t muster enough violence in Afghanistan to stop the recent election and complain about how hard Bush’s War on Terror has made things for him and his fellow jihadists.

    Or how about your claim, when the story broke about Arafat’s illness, that the Israelis and the West blew away the chance for peace. Tell that to Clinton’s point man, Dennis Ross, who can produce the maps showing what Ehud Barak put on the table vs. the lies Arafat told after when he dropped the order for the second intifada to commence.

    More telling still is your silence when Spencer & Co post items detailing the brutality and myscogeny of the Iranian regime or Khartoum’s proxy army of Janjawid fighters massacring the black Sudanese population in Darfur. Or your phony concern for American troops dying in Iraq and total absence of concern for what Saddam did to the Iraqi people during his 30+ year reign of terror and what the Islamists are doing there now as they fight tooth-and-nail to prevent the election planned for January.

    Your posts, however contrarian the view, would be welcome if they contained anything insightful, but they do not. You haven’t been banned by Spencer, because, presumably, you don’t quite qualify as a bona fide troll.

  58. says

    jihadbuster-
    I must admit my sarcasm went over the top – cross did an excellent job of articulating my point, in case I was misunderstood.

  59. says

    Naseem:

    This statement tells me that YOU are the ones preparing for a crusade. We just want to led our normal lives …but you won’t let us…you keep on talking about fighting….wot’s all that about?

    The problem is that your “normal lives” include attempting to subvert our governments and convert or kill our people.

    Why can’t you understand that we won’t let that happen?

    You can protest all you wish, but your claims are irrelevant.

    We’ve read your “prophet”‘s book. We know that nothing you say can be trusted.

    At some point, you’re going to be given the choice to return to your homeland or die. It’s that simple.

  60. says

    Thanks, Cross. The particular relevance to my reference was last week’s troll of the week Hatchetpuss the pseudo-sociologist with his/her survey, but it’s dumb for anyone, however qualified, to think they can draw any deep conclusions from blog posts. The only point I’d concede to Naseem at all is that sometimes the language from the anti-jihadists gets excessive and that really doesn’t do much for the site. On the other hand, that’s probably what draws her in the first place. She’s certainly not much for dealing with facts, Koranic or historic. Even the reference to Marks & Spencers as a venerable Muslim-owned establishment. It may be that now, but M & S was most certainly founded by British Jews.

  61. says

    Islam is comming back (there just pissed because we wont bow down to this vile filth)

    I always find it interesting.

    We have to respect the poor muslims (because their crappy qeeran and its writer (child molester mohammed) cant stand up to any intelligent thinking person.

    Christianity (you may not like it) but you are free to look, investigate, question, critisize the Bible.

    God has no problem with a human asking intelligent questions.

    The simple fact that every time we open the newspapers we hear
    How dare you actually think.
    How dare you critisize our beloved prophet

    Proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Islam was spawned by satan himself.

    We will never bow down to this VILE SATANIC FILTH.

    Period.

  62. says

    People,

    Please leave that Islamic lady alone. There is no point in trying to convince her. Instead of being cynical that Islam will take over EU, let us think about some strategies.

    I joined only today. This is a test posting.

  63. says

    NAVEEN

    Well put. I think we all could benefit from toning the rhetoric down. I think Naseem’s perspective, for example, is fascinating and it should be understood that (s)he is not going to be convinced by anything posted here for one thing.

    It is perhaps better to simply maintain civil discourse (or none at all) with those who wish to express the Islamic view point here. There are those who are intentionally attempting to elicit an irrational angry response, in an attempt to delegitimize our reasonable concerns about World wide Islamism. They should not be given ammunition.

    Consider the broken Windows Theory as applied to discourse by Edwin J. Feulner, Ph.D. (LINK BOTTOM:

    “This illustrates the first aspect of the broken windows theory, which we saw with the car in Palo Alto. Once someone wields the hammer ” once the incivility starts ” others will take it as an invitation to join in, and pretty soon there’s no limit to the incivility.”

    http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/speech050804.cfm