Turkey in the EU would be 'bridge to Islamic world': Schroeder

We want a bridge to the Islamic world about as much as we want a bridge to Hell.

"no contradiction between the Muslim faith and a modern and enlightened society"

ROTFLMAO!!!!

To everyone:

As a German I would like to apologize for this moron, who calls himself "chancellor".

In 2002 nearly 50% voted for Mr.Stoiber, governor of Bavaria who opposes the entry of the re-strengthening Ottoman-Empire, but who is regarded as a right-winger in Germany.

Regards

A democratic Turkey. All those politicians and researchers who are so infatuated with a fantasy about a "democratic Turkey", they all seem to be so sure that if only Turkey will be in the EU (and perhaps, a lot of EU money will be pumped into it), it will somehow, magically become "democratic", and there will be a "bridge" between Europe and the (rest of the) Islamic world, and then all will live happily ever after.

I'd just like to ask those sweet optimists if anyone of them has ever thought about what would happen if the "democratic Turkey", with freedom of opinion and religion, where the Islamists can't be restricted by the oppressive military any more, if that "democratic Turkey" would choose to go for an Islamic state and Sharia law, once they are already members of the Union. OK, we could nicely try to tell them that Sharia is not quite in harmony with the EU constitution - and then what?

Even if they refuse to imagine such a scenario as possible, is it too much to ask that they'd give it a thought, quite theoretically, just for a minute?

NIPPON

Chancellor Schroeder seems oblivious to the dangers of adding more Muslims into the European Union countries. He is part of the problem just as all the politicians who are harping on this deadly obsession are.

Bavaria's Stoiber seems far more attuned to this and would get my vote in an instant. Another common sense, no non-sense person is Interior Minister Beckstein. Although his pleas to the 20,000 flag waving (No not the German flag, the Turkish flag),Turks at the ant-terrorism rally last week was pathetic.

He said "Join our celebrations, learn our language...". How pathetic. The sea of literally hundreds of Turkish flags should give him and the dopey dhimmi Germans (Yourself excluded) a real healthy clue as to where these Turks loyalties lie.

Is almost funny that Europe is doing everything including grabbing its ankles and they get bitch slapped. Despite the left and right slapping, they still just don't get it and ask their tormentors, like an abused wife, what they are doing wrong and how they can please their master.

As a German, is it the politicians skillful lying or the peoples ignorance resulting from years of conditioning that multiculturalism is good and Muslims are great for enriching places like Berlin, Paris, Malmo, Madrid and so on?

Regarding the quote "to build a bridge to the Islamic world" - this must be a Freudian slip of the tongue.

"build a bridge FOR the islamic world" is the reality, if Turkey joins the EU. Idiot.

Andrew:

To keep it short:

The socialist elite of my country is not aware of taqqiya, dhimmitude and jihad because they live in protected well-to-do areas.

Their daughters are not on the verge of being raped and their sons not in trouble to be stabbed.

In my oppinion, Germany will become a big Yugoslavia in the next 50 years.

But to pass the ball to you, Andrew:

Why does the Bush administration kiss the a*se of those arrogant Saudi-Princes?
Why does America lick the boots of Musharraf, whose officers still support the taleban and the growing production of poppies in Afghanistan?

Why did the US administration push Germany the last 10 years to take in Turkey into EU, when we had the possibility to oppose this comming nightmare before Schröder came to power?

During the Iraq war you got aware of the true intentions of your longstanding ally.

When the next elections will take place, we (the conservatives) will end this mess.

Why do these European politicians behave like starry eyed moonies intoxicated on "multiculturalism?" The more they bend over for them the worse it's going to get.

What they should do instead of the usual pandering and placating is, force them to their knees with one hand, point a gun to their head with another (figuratively of course ;-) and tell them they have a specific amount of time to learn the language, history and the laws of Germany. If they fail to do so they will lose their homes, forfeit whatever status they have in Germany and get a one-way ticket to the country of origin. Haven't they learned from Israel (the canary in the coal mine) that the more you capitulate the more they hate you, the more you give the more they demand? There were more Israelis slaughtered 'after' the Oslo Accords than 15 years prior. So much for f***ing bridges!

NIPPON

Touche! I agree with everything you say. I know that certain unpleasant accomidations must be made for various geopolitical realities.

That doesn't mean we should not adress immediately ways to extract ourselves, in Europe and America, from the terrible web that draws Islam ever tighter into our Western societies.

Bavaria is trying, but will greater germanu follow...then Europe? As for America, we also have the same problem with one foot in the civilizational graveyard.

Kemaste:

It has to do with the Second World War and the war in Yugoslavia.

During the 50 years, the longest peace time in European history ever since, between the end of the war and the uprising of civil war in Yugoslavia no one was aware of a new danger.

While America faught its wars in Korea, Vietnam and then in the Islamic world, Europe went to sleep and Germany celebrated its unification which had been granted by Bush senior and Michael Gorbatchev.

Those gentlemen and ladies on the head of the our state are not more than sheepish bureaucrats.
They do not deserve the title "politician".

Nippon asks:

"Why does the Bush administration kiss the a*se of those arrogant Saudi-Princes?
Why does America lick the boots of Musharraf, whose officers still support the taleban and the growing production of poppies in Afghanistan?

Why did the US administration push Germany the last 10 years to take in Turkey into EU, when we had the possibility to oppose this comming nightmare before Schröder came to power?"

I can give you my take on this question. I think the reason we kiss the a*se of the Saudi princes, lick the boots of Musharraf and why we bother to stay in the UN... We do it to keep an eye on them, to have a reason to have our finger in the pie so-to-speak -- in the game.

Who knows what kind of anti-US perfidy the UN would involve themselves in if we weren't there to stop it. We'd rack up sanctions like Israel.

In my humble opinion, international diplomacy is like a game of chess. You make certain moves in anticipation of how a country might react (favorably or unfavorably) to the move. It appears countries make alliances (even tenuous, transparent) alliances to determine who's got your back (Poland, Japan, Australia) and who's gaming you and to what degree..(Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UK to a degree)

I can't remember who said it but the quote goes something like this: "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

Andrew:

I do recognize the sacrifice of the American people for freeing Europe.

You really faught a heroic struggle, but today your country seems to be more like the British Empire, who faught endless wars around the globe in order to gain economical success.

So, take this advice from Old Europe:

Bring your brave boys and girls home out of the , ban the Qu'ran and all other scriptures from those schools of Islamic law, don't oppose European Unification for it has been too long divided since Karl Martell and Karolus Magnus.

Don't oppose the creation of an European army and laugh at the European weekness at the same time.

We are not yor enemies, we are the source of the values that made your great country, both idealistic and physical.
In the next 50 years we will be the frontier, the frontline against the new storm that is going to blow from the Middle East.

And please...don't regard soccer as game for women and children;-)

KEMASTE/NIPPON

I think Germany will succumb to the jihad in relatively the same way the rest of Europe will, quite possibly in a whimper, not a bang. Europe cannot defend itself against its own democracy which permits Muslims in by the tens-of-thousands under the auspices of multiculturalism.

Europe will have 70 million fewer inhabitants as their indigenous population dies off, the balance made up by immigration and immigrant births within the next 50 years.

The way to combat this is raising awareness, embracing ones heritage and rejecting multiculturalism which allows Islamic colonization at the expense of the people born in a given country, also, a post World War 2 Soviet style program of actively providing incentives and promoting motherhood must be effected. It is not impossible.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41675

Maternal Glory, 1946 Soviet Archieves

http://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/works/full.htm

Women of the West, do your patriotic duty!

Ah, yes, the "bridge between Islam and the West" --"a crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many..."

If you build a bridge, will they cross it? And how! Turks, and Kurds, and many many Arabs -- hard for those Westerners to tell them apart, what with all those funny names and scripts. Turkey as a permanent bridge to the E.U. And once there, Turks as members of the E.U. will be free to move about as they wish, to settle down anywhere they wish in the E.U., to build their mosques, their madrasas. Even in countries which, unlike France and unlike Germany, never admitted large numbers of Muslims out of a greedy desire to find cheap labor, and heedless of whether, in the end, what came undeclared, or misunderstood, in the mental baggage of these millions of migrants, would cost the indigenous non-Muslims much, much more. And now France, and Germany, or at least some of the fossilized figures who remain in power, and who cannot admit, to their own people, much less to themselves, that the entire large-scale Muslim migration was a disaster.

But think of it? Who is better placed to say that there are times when people have a right to expel those who pose a danger to them? Who better than a German leader, to say to the world the following:

"After World War II, ethnic Germans were expelled from the Sudetenland, though their ancestors had lived there for 600 years. They were expelled by Benes and Masaryk, the tolerant, cultivated leaders of the most tolerant, and cultivated state, in Central or Eastern Europe. Three million of them were pushed out.

And it was not only there. Many were forced out of Poland. When Danzig became Gdansk, it was not the only city to change its name and its ethnicity. And the Russians did the same, with the Germans who once inhabited Koenigsberg, now Kaliningrad.

No one at the time, knowing what we Germans had done, and how we had behaved, in all of those places, dropped a tear for those expelled Germans. Some revanchist circles in Germany continued to claim, and dared to say -- and some still do -- that we Germans were mistreated. But everything is a question of context.

Given what we had inflicted on the world, it was reasonable for the Russians, the Poles, the Czechs, the Hungarians, and indeed anyone else who felt like expelling groups of ethnic Germans, many of whom -- like Henlein with his calls for the "legitimate rights of the Sudeteners" (for Hitler had instructed him in how to behave, especially with the smiling, foolish Lord Runciman on his famous Runciman Mission) -- had indeed shown that their loyalties were directed at the idea of pan-German conquest.

So let me say today that just as those expulsions were deemed necessary, for there was evidence that they represented a threat -- even a permanent threat -- to the non-German peoples around, so there is in Europe today another threat. The ideology is no longer that of "pan-Germanism" or Aryan superiority. It bears the name of a religion, which unfortunately causes many to let down their guard, for the word "religion" to them commands respect. Surely a religion is about the personal relationship of a worshipper to his god, whatever the name is. Surely it is a matter of personal autonomy. Alas, in the case of Islam, that is not true.

Islam is akin to an army. Its founder, its hero, its central figure, its model for all time, is Muhammad, who took part in 78 battles. There is even a separate book, the Kitab al-maghazi, devoted to his career as a warrior. He did not hesitate to attack the inoffensive, who had done nothing except had the misfortune not to be Muslims. such as the Jewish farmers at the oasis of Khaybar. He watched, with pleasure, the execution of hundreds of prisoners among the Bani Qurayza. He ordered the political assassination of anyone he deemed an enemy -- an old man, a woman who he thought had mocked him (Asma b. Marwan). And Muhammad is taken to be the model of a man for all time.

As for Islam being regarded as an army seeking recruits more than a personal religion for the saving of individual souls, that explains the complete lack of freedom of conscience in Islam. If one leaves Islam, if one is an apostate – one deserves to be treated as a deserter from an army would be treated – with death. And Muslim spreaders of Islam through Da’wa, the vast campaign of trying to turn disaffected Europeans into Muslim “reverts” (as Muslims say, for according to Islam everyone is born a Muslim), are akin to army recruiters – the kind of recruiters who fail to reveal all the fine print in the contract. You may recite the Shehada, and have some vague sense of what it is all about – ah, that community of Believers, but only later do you find out, and find out that you must subscribe to, all sorts of things you may not quite have bargained for. But strangely, so deep is the brainwashing, many stay in, and accommodate the new demands – just as those born into Islam may silently dissent – but only silently. And what you have signed up for a Total Regulation of Life, a Complete Explanation of Everything.

We Germans are perhaps best situated to know about this, to know about the lust for submerging one’s self into a collective, about the need to gather, to scream, to chant, and above all to have an object to hate. We know what a Total Regulation of Life, a Complete Explanation of Everything, looks like. Nazism, too, divided the world – just as Islam does between Believer and Infidel – in two. There were the Aryans and their (temporary) allies, and then there was everyone else, to be dealt with in turn, now with smiles, now with planes and Panzer divisions. And like the adherents of Islam, we dwelled as well in the past of our imaginings: a great past, in which Pan-Germania had once flourished, and would again, with appropriate Lebensraum, and with the Jews destroyed, and the Slavs as our slaves, and the vast territotires to the East to serve for raw materials, and to the West, the pleasures of Paris and Rome to serve as places where our enslaved dancing-masters and painting instructors could help to cultivate us, and we could use France and Italy too as one vast brothel-cum-art-museum-cum-shopping-bazaar. I recently read a remarkable essay setting forth the similarities, astonishing in their completeness, between Islam and Fascism, of which Nazism is the most sinister variant. That essay, on Islam and Fascism, by Ibn Warraq, can be found, mein Herren und Damen, at www.secularislam.org.

I am a German who remembers the disastrous effect of the two world wars, for which we are among the most responsible for the first, and completely responsible for the second, in the the political and intellectual diminishment of Europe, in the permanent damage we did to European civilization. I would like once again to recall the mass murder of 2/3 of Europe's Jews, who were an important, indeed indispensable element in the intellectual life of this Continent. The Nazis also murdered members of Resistance movements, people who by definition were morally and intellectually more aware than their fellows, and so many of very best of Europe’s non-Jewish citizens also perished, and with them traditions that are not necessarily shifted to others.

When I sense a great danger, that remains insufficiently recognized, or about which there is an unstated campaign of denial, I feel that I must speak. Europe is yet again embarking on a suicidal course, one where demography -- unless we have courage to rescue our own civilization -- will be destiny. And because we Germans played a role in allowing in many millions of Muslim -- our case, Turkish -- immigrants, in order to have cheap labor for Ludwig Ehrhard's Wirtschaftswunder. Like the French, who had in the 1950s relied on Portuguese and Greek and Italian immigrants, and then switched over to immigrants from North Africa while ours in Germany came from supposedly irrevocably "secularist" Turkey, in our economic haste we did not consider the true costs of these permanent immigrants. We told ourselves they would voluntarily leave. They did not. We told ourselves there was nothing wrong with Islam -- it was just one religion among many. And in failing to examine the tenets of Islam, in failing to understand, or even to begin to investigate, the immutable canonical texts of Islam, and of course in failing to foresee that someday, with vast oil wealth, the wherewithal for a new sense of Muslim power, and the ability to pay for mosques and madrasas and public-relations firms, and corrupt Western journalists and diplomats, and to buy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of armaments, and to employ Western experts, and to subvert Western policies through the dangling of contracts and suppressing any real knowledge of Islam -- in all of this, we are not more guilty than other Western countries. But we in Germany have a special duty, given the damage we inflicted on Europe, and helped to murder so many of its most acute and penetrating minds, who might have helped Europe to understand, and withstand, the onslaught not of armies of military conquest, but of immigrants bearing in their mental baggage a belief-system that is completley opposed to what is best in Western civilization.

Like the French and the British, we were indifferent or lazy or perhaps criminally negligent in failing to consult real experts on Islam, rather than those who were either bought-and-paid-for, or themselves had gone native, like a certain Berlin lady, a well-known scholar of Islam, who so identified with the faith that she raised her two sons as Muslims (one of them even now is in Lebanon), and has led the lynch-mob of dutiful dhimmi scholars of Islam by attacking, in a hundred outrageous ways, the courageous and brilliant Christoph Luxenberg. We did not realize how many of our university departments were, step by step, being taken over not by real scholars, but by apologists keen to bury the accurate scholarship of the past. In this we were not worse than others -- look at Georgetown, look at Columbia, nor than the French, with their so;;u assumption that they “knew” what the Arabs and Muslims were all about because of their history as a colonial power in Algeria. Well, there were Frnech scholars -- Fagnan, Bousquet, even Servier -- come to mind, who had learned on the spot, in North Africa. But they were dead, or retired, and the handful who were left -- such as the estimable Dufourcq, who died in 1974, were not listened to; instead, a new crop of semi-educated tiersmondiste islamisant sociologues told the French government, eager to engage in the Euro-Arab Dialogue, and a number of prominent French figures eager to profit personally from the "recycling of petro-dollars" as it was politely called, exactly what it wanted to hear. There was no proble, Gilles Kepel and Olivier Roy and Alain Gersh all said. Much exaggerated. A handful of extremists. Can all be cleared up easily -- monitor a few of the bad mosques. That's it.

And we did the same, in France and Germany, with how we treated the manifestations of the JIhad. We simply did not connect any dots. We kept focussing, like madmen, on the supposedly limited Arab-Israeli dispute, as if it really were just a "dispute" and not an endless Jihad that cannot be assuaged, cannot be undone, because Israel is an Infidel state and no Infidel state may be permanently permitted within dar al-Islam (and ultimately, no Infidel state can be permitted anywhere on the globe -- which is something else we failed to take seriously).

In the German-language press and in the French-language press experts died, or were forcibly retired. There was no attempt to get people to make sense, or to take Islam -- the 900-pound gorilla in the room -- into account. No one, of course, can report sensibly from the Middle East, no one could make sense of Khomeini, for example, without understanding Islam. But Eric Rouleau never showed, for Le Monde, the slightest conception of what Islam was all about. And the one person who did on that newspaper, Peroncel Hugoz, was promptly prevented from writing about North Africa or the MIddle EAst (he had been Le Monde's correspondent in both Egypt and Algeria) as soon as he wrote his acute and devastating "Le radeau de Mahomet." In other words, if you were A Man Who Knew Too Much, you would be taken off the case. Who replaced Arnold Hottinger, of the Neue Zurcher Zeitung, in reporting truthfully in the German-language press about the realitites of the Middle East? No one. Only now, and here and there, is something akin to the truth beginning to be glimpsed, as Jihadist events and ideology simply become too important to dismiss. But why did it take so long, and after so many years of Muslims coming to Europe, and settling --as if permanently -- in?

We have allowed the infiltration of our media, the virtual takeover, and while the BBC is England’s responsibility, and Agence France Presse and Radio France International and Le Monde is France’s responsibility, we are responsible for the nonsense and lies that, appealing alas to the pre-existing mental conditions of anti-Americanism and antisemitism that remain forces to reckon with all over Europe, not least in Germany, we have helped to create the instruments of our self-misleading, our gross misunderstanding, and of our own potential destruction. The Nazis were an affront –they were an affront to those who created what mattered in German and European civilization. They were an enemy of its art and its science, and to the free and skeptical inquiry that made the development of that civilization possible.

We now confront the problem of demography, just as the Czechs confronted, and dealt summarily, with their own demographic problem – the ethnic Germans of the Sudetenland. I agree with what they did, though the danger posed by ethnic Germans in 1945 or 1946, when Germany lay prostrate, was hard to foresee. It does not matter. They had earned the right, through their experience, to decide as they did. So too the Poles, the Hungarians, and others. And now, what experience do we have to cause us to have forebodings about an islamization of Europe? We have, if only we choose to study it, 1400 years of uninterrupted aggression, wherever the wherewithal was available, and the opportunity arose, against all Infidels by Muslims bent on conquest. 1400 years of conquest, from Spain in the west to the marches of China in the east. 1400 years of the subjugation of Infidels – Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Hindus, Confucians – and everywhere the story was the same. We need to study, and very fast, and very thoroughly, the history of that subjugation, and precisely what it entailed.

Because, as Muslims themselves tell you, the past is completely relevant to the future. For Islam is outside of history. The doctrines contained in the canonical texts – in Qur’an and hadith and sira – have not changed. So what a historian wrote in 1960, or 1940, or 1910, or 1880, about Islam has immediate relevance today. And what K. S. Lal or Jahundath Sarkar or Koenraad Elst writes about the treatment of Hindus under Muslim rule, or what Mary Boyce writes about the treatment of Zoroastrians under Muslim rule, or what Moshe Gil writes about the Jews of conquered Palestine under Muslim rule, is relevant to what is happening, or will happen, in Europe.

We have no right to give this civiliziation up to a belief-system that rejects every single one of its achievements. We cannot give upthe Enlightenment. We will not give up sculpture, painting of humans, we will not give up music, we will not give up science, which offers us the only hope to get out of the complete mess we have made of the physical world – in yet another display of massive ingratitude, in this case to Whom It May Concern, the creator of this world we treat so shabbily. And it is perhaps not surprising that the best way of defeating the world-wide Jihad that is a war not against the West, but against all the rest, against Infidels everywhere, is to deprive them of the wherewithal – the oil money – that began to heat up the Jihad over the past 30 years. And in doing that, we will have to lessen our dependence on fossil fuels, and that, in turn, will also help to save the earth. Save the Earth and Fight the Jihad at One and the Same Time. Perhaps even the Greens among us will understand that, much as some of them apparently take pleasure in echoing other Muslim demands – why one cannot comprehend.

No bridges need to be built – but rather a moat and a drawbridge, metaphorically speaking. No longer should Muslims assume they can overbreed, and send their populations into Europe, where they can continue to overbreed, to refuse to obey the laws and civilization into which they have come, to treat with contempt those who owe them exactly nothing.

And everywhere we will act to limit the number of those who are in, but not of, this civilization. We owe it to the past, if not to our frivolous, fun-loving, heedless, essentially depressed society, where “I shop, therefore I am” has become the reason for being. Surely protecting the legacy of the past – and not just physical monuments, but a way of regarding the universe, personal autonomy, artistic freedom – is something worth engaging in, that will provide a meaning that our current cheap attitudinizing about America, and Israel, shameful and wrongheaded as it is, does not provide. And Germany should take the lead, because Germans have a duty to recognize, with a certain keenness, a belief-system indistinguishable from fascism, even if some of its adherents may be superficially amiable, or may secretly dissent from the fully contents of that belief-system, but objectively support it in failing to openly recognize, identify, and forever condemn those central tenets of Islam of which they are perfectly aware.

And we should keep in mind that the Czechs, having expelled the Sudeten Germans, have not been deemed by history to have done wrong. They were engaged in an act of self-defense, based on a knowledge of history. Let us learn, thoroughly, the history of Islam and the subjugation of non-Muslim peoples, and see if there is something that, once we have learned it, will help to guide us in the formation of policy. We are under no obligation to commit suicide. What’s more, we owe to the Great Dead not to betray their legacy, or throw it aside, because we are too weak, or too ashamed, to take the minimal steps necessary for preserving that legacy.”

That, or something like it, is what some German statesman – not the likes of a Schroeder, of course, for he is no statesman – still has time to say. At least for a few more years. And should.

And it is a chill wind, an air that kills, that Ex Ponto blows, even for the most determined pontifex maximus among us.

Mr. Fitzgerald,

Your post above is simply too informative and interesting to leave confined within this thread. I highly recommend Mr. Spencer places it in the main body of the website under the title "Germany's hypothetical Awaking" or some other mea culpa/call to arms title.

The circumstances surrounding Europe's dances with dhimmitude is marvelously highlighted, along with all the false reasoning and downright criminal negligence with which Europe's ruling elite have plunged Europe into the beginnings of a new epoch of conflict with no good end in sight without the use of force on European soil against 'European' citizens in the very near future.

The idea that mass expulsions are justifiable using the example of the Sudetenland after World War 2 is interesting. Though I would argue that the Germans had an more legitimate historical claim to the region, their subsequent actions forfeited any moral claim they might have had to remain.

The point is expulsions have happened in the recent past and could very well happen again. The decisive factor of course is the difference in temperaments of the people involved. Muslims will not quietly evacuate Dar al Harb and lose all that hard won waqif land from Allah, not by a long shot. Expect any such action to expel them if it should ever come to that to be both bloody and destructive, something Europe historically is well acquainted in dealing with.

The idea that such a demographic time bomb is just waiting to explode is something that was recently witnessed in the Netherlands. Though the scale of the violence was thankfully limited, the fact is it is a harbinger of things to come.

I wrote the following on another blog in response to a question, Who should be that blogs man of the year. From the choices I thought Theo Van Gogh should be:

I must say that out of all the choices presented, I think *Theo Van Gogh (R.I.P.)* perfectly sums up what I think we in the West are facing.

His assassination at the hands of European based Islamist's perfectly illustrates how our freedoms and liberties, which we take for granted, are in undeniable jeopardy.

Margaret Hassan and the Children of Beslan are also victims of the Islamist war, sacrificed on the alter of jihad in distant lands, innocent women and children "Infidels" who were shown what Islamist notions of mercy and compassion are really all about.

But for such a depraved, ritualistic slaughter to happen in Europe, in the heart of one of the most tolerant and permissive liberal societies in the Western world, should give us pause and shake us to our senses.

Every aspect of what is at stake here was illustrated by that heinous act.

1) There is a growing parallel society which refuses our Western civilizational structure and prefers instead, to establish Islamic hegemony or Shari’a in Europe.

2) Islam is beyond normal criticism and evaluation because to do so invites death threats and murder at the nearest opportunity. Islam is conditioning us to be permissive, (Dhimmitude) to our own extinction.

3) Free speech, is forbidden by "hate speech" laws when honestly addressing issues of Islamic incompatibility with Western societies in large numbers _or_ when offence by Muslims is taken, in which case Shari’a law gives them the authority to kill you.

Other Islamic cultural norms such as female circumcision and amputations under Shari’a law for offences as well as polygamy is on the rise in Europe.

4) Islamic immigration has transformed Western Europe into a growing Arab/Islamic entity (Eurabia)from Scandinavia to London to Berlin to the Netherlands to France and the politicians in Brussels are lying to you by saying there is no problem, just don't discriminate against racists and we will all get along fine.

*THAT IS A LIE.* Which will prove to end in disaster for Europe.

Additionally, the demographic jihad has the potential to spread to the new Eastern European countries as my recent thoughts question ;

The 10 Eastern European countries added to the EU in May, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia, several have virtually no ethnic diversity or substantial Muslim population at the moment. Consider Estonia for example, which has a tiny Muslim presence:

"...There are an estimated 100,000 Muslims living in the _entire_ Baltic state region. The Muslim population is Estonia and other Baltic and Nordic countries are expected to increase, as immigration policies are liberalized." (See link below):

http://www.masnet.org/prof_community.asp?id=687

The liberalization of immigration policies in these countries will result in a greater Islamic presence. The planned construction of a large mosque in the Estonian city of Tallinn for such a small Muslim population follows what is seen everywhere, including America, where endless mosque and Islamic community center construction is said to be heavily financed by Saudi Arabia.

As new EU members, they are expected to abide by EU immigration law and the concept of "Burden sharing". These very practices transformed sizeable portions of Western Europe into large Islamic parallel societies.

Asylum claims and immigration trends have all increased in several of these Eastern European countries. This should signal concern for what could very well become “Greater Eurabia”, because it will almost certainly be Islamic immigration.

"Bulgaria and Romania remain emigrant countries, while Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, Slovenia and the Slovak Republic, where the economy is taking off faster, experience a greater influx of workers who settle down as permanent residents." (See link below):

http://www.europarl.eu.int/workingpapers/libe/104/summary_en.htm

Eastern European countries may reject multiculturism altogether (along with mass immigration) as Estonia did when Liina Tonisson of the Center party said, “Estonia is a European culture and Islamic beliefs does not really belong here.”

But consider a different topic, though related, that there are those who seek to introduce the very conditions which lead to multiculturism and other leftist ideological principles that provide cover for cultural transformation which seems to always work in favor of , though not exclusively for, Muslims.

George Soros is such a man who may be working to accomplish just such a feat, Liberalism, radicalism and social transformation to the left of those countries beyond the Eastern Frontier. David Horowitz has written about the Islamist’s newest ally, the liberal radical left. Though I am not saying Mr. Soros has such an intention but the policies he is attempting to introduce in Eastern Europe will have the effect of creating the industry of liberalism and multiculturalism, which is a Trojan horse for cultural dismantling. (See link below):

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/February2004/0204Trifkovic.html

So As I see it, Mr. Fitzgerald's hypothetical scenario and public rally by Germany and perhaps other countries in Europe, is inevitable and unless the EU committees stop ignoring the obvious 800 pound gorilla in the room they are directly responsible for creating the impending blood shed and misery that will surely result as a result of on, civilization or the other fighting for it's very survival.

Frish weht der Wind
Der Heimat zu...

I would like to begin the story with that, and the rest can be changed.

Thank you Hugh.

JTF-- Thank you for your thanks. Not sure if I understood what followed when you quoted the German up to a point, then alluded to what follows. Did you mean that you would prefer that the initial line of Eliot, about the crowd flowing over London bridge, might be replaced by his Tristan und Isolde quote about the wind through the homeland, thereby exchanging the bridge theme for the wind theme? Or does the rest of the Wagner quote, which I do not know, say something relevant to the matter of Europe, Turkey, Islam, the unstated or even unrecognized threat.

I would note that the wind in Wagner, coming via Eliot who gathered lots of twigs here and there to feather his own poetic nest, sounds to me not sinister, and the wind I wanted was supposed to be sinister, which is why it blows Ex Ponto (from the Black Sea, or Euxine Sea, or Pontus Euxinus -- i.e. Turkey -- along with a hint of a bridge, a Hellespont which will now not require any hero to swim now that any one can leander or meander across the bridge that will result from the supposed "bridge-building" to Muslims that Turkey's admission to the EU will represent. My wind blows from the east, and whispers not sweet nothings but fateful news about Islam and its newest conquest through demography and Da'wa, and should evoke a wer-reitest-so-spat-durch-Nacht-und-Wind shudder, as it blows -- harder and harder, and hardest still, from Turkey's Black Sea region -- from EUxine Sea to that EU (the double-capitals in "EUxine" now introduce the plausible possibility, by sleight of letter, of dual capitals for a future Eurabia, just as in its distant Roman Empire past, the same area had two capitals, one for the Western and one for the Eastern Empire, Rome and Constantinople, which can be updated, to reflect new economic and political realities, to Paris and Constantinople, twin capitals of the future Caliphate of Eurabia.

And "Ex Ponto," also alludes to Ovid, author of, inter alia, Epistulae ex Pondo and of a certain Tristia, a title that Mandelshtam also used for an early collection of poems (with a tiny tirage of 3000 exemplars), and Mandelshtam, some may recall, made an appearance at Jihadwatch some months ago, in a badminton game, shuttlecocks flying, re Underwood and Woodstock typewriters, that for a short while distracted its participants from the essentially dismal and depressing subject of Islam.
Perhaps postings, if sufficiently numerous and various and self-referential play can, whatever other good they may do, can create a new kind of prose genre. Though pedagogic purposes require repetition for effect (so that whole phrases, not only one-word epithets, come to be constantly repeated -- phrases that are unlovely, such as that describing dhimmitude as "a status of permanent humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity"). Well, why not? We might as well enjoy the pre-Islamic period of our existence as long as we are able.

Cheap labour? Who said that? That's a fairytale from way back when. It's all about welfare, child care assistance and handouts...

They don't work, most of them are unemployable...
Shredder and the red-green biotope have always been an embarrasment. By sucking up to the Turks and giving them the vote, that was the straw that broke the camels back.

Germany is a nightmare, always was...

And I still call Australia home...

These inspired tellings are what attracted me to this site, and reasons why I continue to post, and have hope.

I sense near possession in the voice of the German leader, a man who becomes fully aware of the wasteland that was, and could be again. He knows the meaning of the crowd over London Bridge, but is it destined to fall? Unlike his enemies, he believes that the future is not yet written. And so he warns and sings, as best he can. It is beautiful.

I do not have such a voice, but if I could sing a song about the future, I would like the winds Ex Ponto to be transformed into the breath of a young woman (not as troubled and enraged as Isolde; get back to you on that one...) bringing us home; and the German leader seems to me to sing with a breath like that.

And so, I am suggesting, in my poor way, that the wasteland is not a story that needs to be told. And I think the German leader would agree with me. We should heed the winds Ex Ponto, that foretell of an icy death, and remember the meaning of the wasteland, but there is another wind, another breath, that can bring us home again; and perhaps after this, our second or third trip through the wasteland, we will appreciate our home more, and, at the end of the story, we will make our home even better than it was before.

TO HUGH

Bravo!

A masterful and quite brilliant expostition of the dilemma of the dithering Deutsche.

(I'll print it out and pass it along to friends now spending Euro's instead of guilders, francs, lira and marks.)

Yes-

"...so many, I did not know death had undone so many..."

However-

The current kohlkopf crop of Germanic leaders remind me of another line by the magpie of poets:

"...headpiece filled with straw..."

Shantih Shantih Shantih

Mr. Fitzgerald

I thought I was the only one who felt so fatalistic about the future, I am glad that I am not alone in my sentiments as it provides me with assurance that all the insanity I see around me is not the product of an over-active imagination.

Germany and France certainly deserve (though it must not be allowed) the fate they have chosen, but for the rest of Europe to have willingly fallen into the trap of "Multiculturism" as a means of proving its moral superiority, when in fact it was a scheme designed to placate the nervous masses into accepting cultural conquest and eventual extinction is a great crime.

It is a form of deliberate, engineered cultural assassination and theft, specially crafted to destroy Western civilization, in a stealthy way through a long term process of de-Christianizing, and historical propaganda lies that is enabled by academia, treasonous politico's, and pop culture nihilism, consumerism, sexual distractionism and amoral promotion.

Stage one of the Islamification of the West was the one-way population transfer, completely successful and ongoing and includes mosque construction and Islamic cultural center placement everywhere. Stage two was the mass sell-out of our shared heritage, history, culture and religious grounding by those who seek to assist in the process by either direct action, fear or simple dhimmitude which is naturally complemented by the great lie, multiculturism which enables it. Stage three is now simply a matter of time. As Bernard Lewis predicted, Europe will be an Islamic entity by the end of this century while the Euro-dhimmis indulge in their insatiable Dionysian death ritual. All this in only 30 years!

The Road to this eventual outcome will of course be initially a matter of fruitless, desperate containment and bigger, more fantastic lies to cover up Muslim's undeniable incompatibility with Western societies, as is seen in the great old capitols of Europe now. You know, "Islam is a religion of peace" and the like.

As the conditions of Islamic hegemony become more and more assertive, greater population increases by Muslims, greater involvement in European politics and cultural planning and more and more efforts to institute parts of Shari’a here and a bit of Islamic culture there, before long the dhimmi's will realize that they've "been had". But it will come as no surprise, because they knew it all along but thought pleasantries and flattery to their Muslim masters would shield them.

Europe's putrid despicable leaders who have earned a place in infamy for their cowardice and treason, even among the Muslim colonizers who rightly spit in their faces for their fecklessness and weakness should be revealed and held accountable now.

In fact the emotions I feel now are a combination of rage at the European sheeple for their lack of will, loathing for their leaders who created and continue to enable this vandalism of Europe and a momentary sense of poetic justice that the Europeans are getting exactly what they are begging for and as such deserve it.

The Muslims who are understandably (for them) just taking advantage of the situation to 'defend', promote and embrace their religion/culture cannot be blamed, for conquest and violence in the name of the God of their belief system, it is in their nature.

If we had one-tenth the sense of their cultural superiority and determination to preserve their backwards civilization, we would not be in this situation in the Western world. Our strength is also our weakness. The Judeo-Christian tradition is like a great tragedy, a civilization so blessed with the fruits of science, humanism, human rights and technological wonders and yet it is being brought to its knees mainly by rejecting it's roots and turning it's back on God while welcoming heathens as equals.

We must show “Tolerance” of the most intolerant people in human history, but wait a minute, the history we accept is the one they themselves have provided us with. 1,400 years of Islamic violence has earned them the title "The Religion of Peace". It’s insanity.

It is a disaster of biblical proportions for Western civilization and it could mean extinction, if we don't demand and take our civilizational heritage and spiritual base back.

It is not too late to reverse course but the point of no return is rapidly approaching us. The final act of this great human drama will soon be played out in all of its great Wagnerian pathos and tragedy, for it can not end in any other way. The question is which civilization will prevail?

Before we succumb to terminal pessimism let's explore another possible future scenario.

As the muslim population in Europe grows there are growing calls to institute islamic holidays and elements of Sharia Law.

The European population begins to become restive and unsettled.

The muslim radicals overplay their hand.
Terrorist acts that occur in the name of Islam are the straw that breaks the camel's back.

All of a sudden there is a movement among Europeans to unite in the common cause of their European cultural heritage and identity.

Muslims refuse to set restraints to the growth and influence of Islam.

Europeans call for the end of muslim immigration. This is followed by calls for the expulsion of muslims.

Civil war breaks out.

Europeans unite under the stress of war against the islamic insurgence. A long struggle ensues.

Call me optimistic, but I don't see the Euros simply roll over and play dhimmi once they really get the seriousness of their situation. They will call upon the memory of Charlemagne, Roland, etc etc, gird their loins and battle for their world.

Eastern Europe emerges as a major force in this struggle.

The anti-muslim Europeans call upon the USA for help. We enter on their side.

The USA expropriates all Saudi holdings, freezes all Saudi bank accounts, etc.

American muslims emerge as the dominant force for a true islamic reformation.

The bottom line: A real European Union is created through this process, along with a renaissance of appreciation of European/Western culture.

Islam is forced into its own Reformation in order to become accepted into the modern world.

History moves on.