Why must they tread lightly? What about the children who are being beaten while they tread lightly? They didn't feel any need to tread lightly when priests were being arrested for abuse; why is this different? From The Telegraph, with thanks to Jeremy Langton:
Police and child protection officials have launched an investigation into allegations of child abuse at two mosques in the West Midlands. Around 40 schoolchildren are to be interviewed over claims that they have been subjected to violence and punishment by elders at the mosques, which are on adjoining roads.The investigation was sparked last month when the mother of an eight-year-old boy complained to the police that a mullah [teacher] had slapped her son on the back and made him lie face down before putting his right foot on the boy's back, leaving him with chest pains for more than 24 hours.
As word spread that an official complaint had been made, more children from the area came forward to report beatings and abuse which, the youths say, include being hit, slapped and even beaten with a hockey stick.
As the number of allegations grew, officers from West Midlands police called in the NSPCC to help deal with child protection and other welfare issues.
Police have been forced to tread lightly as elders and mullahs at mosques are among the most respected and influential people in the community.
Relations with the Muslim community in the area are fragile and police officers are aware of the difficulty they face getting evidence as often local people are reluctant to talk.
A source close to the inquiry said: "There is a cultural problem to deal with.
"People here are very concerned about doing anything that will bring disgrace on their community or the mosques, and are often ostracised if they speak out. Some parents find it acceptable for the mullahs to chastise children physically, while others who don't are too fearful to speak out.
"Community leaders close ranks and are not slow to claim persecution or racism by the authorities.
"They have a great deal of control over children and adults, especially the men.
"But it is the duty of the police to act if there are allegations that children are being routinely beaten."
And I wonder how much sexual abuse of children happens as well?
The British government recently approved legislation to ban all but 'light smacking' with great support from organizations such as the N.S.P.C.C. (Nat Soc for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children).
What are such bodies going to make of this one?
Also as for the 'tread softly' part ,why is it that the authorities and others have to be sensitive towards Muslims, why never the other way round? Why isn't there any reciprocity?
Just goes to show that this multi-culturism is a one-way street.
Voltaire:
I've often wondered about sexual abuse as well especially given the fact that Mohammed was a paedophile thus such behaviour can't be thought of as wrong by Muslims.
And also, I wonder how many pedophiles are inclined to become muslims, simply BECAUSE Mohammad was a pedophile himself. Thereby putting more muslim children in danger.
Sad.......I thought Brits were tougher than this.
"Police have been forced to tread lightly as elders and mullahs at mosques are among the most respected and influential people in the community."
Right... and did they also "tread lightly" in the case of priests in the paedophilia scandals?? If not, then there is only one word for this: RACISM!!!
Maybe Macpherson was right after all...
Anyone want to lay any bets as to whether ad nauseum Naseem will weigh in on this? Or Arab72? Or Hatshutup?
The negative perception the West gets of Islam comes direct from the horse's mouth, not from xenophobia.
There is a simple solution to the problem of being ostracized or otherwise terrorized for objecting to archaic, barbaric Islamic traditions. Muslims could assimilate into British society instead of congregating in tightly-knit Islamic enclaves which are replicates of their native habitats.
It seems to me that people who seek asylum because they are oppressed would avoid situations that mimic the conditions they fled. Yet they gravitate to the status quo and before they know it, they're prisoners again. New place, same miserable life.
How many of them really object to conditions in the mini-caliphates they establish in Western countries? One thing is certain; they are free to leave any time they wish.
Multiculturalism creates more problems than it is worth. When the police and government are intimidated by one group of citizens, the entire country is threatened.
Voltaire and Elephant:
This is what goes on, scroll down for picture:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/GrantSwank41028.htm
Yes, SusanP it is indeed ironic that some of the people applying for refugee status here in Canada at least, are doing so because the government back home is hostile to Islamists and jihadists too and they'd face persecution back home. But I'd still suspect the prime reason they immigrate to the West are the social benefits.
Ali Sina had an astounding e-mail debate on with an ex-pat Iranian Phd living in the UK who issued all sorts of threats against Sina for Sina's ex-Muslim commentaries in which the UK dweller advised that he is getting social assistance there and not employed. The threats the blogger made were so embarrassing and extreme that he then contacted Scotland Yard to demand that they have Sina remove the blogger's posts from the FaithFreedom.org site and threatened Sina with legal action too.
One very sickly ironic observation about this item -- if we were talking about mullahs/imams treating animals inhumanely, the Brits would be rising to the ocassion in high dudgeon, but we're only talking about child abuse, so....
waterdragon52 you're wrong about us Brits it's everything to do with WHO is doing these things!
All the UK press(& police,government ect) is anti BNP & so going after these perverts could help the BNP win votes so that's a no no in their eyes.
If you remember a tv programme on Channel 4 (Edge Of The City)about such things was pulled because it was thought it would help the BNP in the european elections .
'People here are very concerned about doing anything that will bring disgrace on their community or the mosques'
They don’t understand that the disgrace of Islam is inherent!
To remove the disgrace of Islam, is to remove Islam itself.
You reap what you sow!
The children don't sow, but they do reap the indoctrinated hatred.
I can’t help but wonder if this is the way they insure hatred for the non-Moslems, by this generation of beaten children?
It’s not Allah's fault. It’s those damned westerners and their idea of common decency and justice for all. Wow those damned beer drinking Christians and their justice, what a disgrace.
Their stupidity is like a mountain of manure, it stinks to high heaven and no one wants to climb it!
No Mohammadanism, Know Peace
The Ayatollah Khomeini wrote a book with a long name, the Tahrir something or other, about what is morally okay or not. According to him, it is acceptable for an adult to have sex with a girl as young as one year old, provided that the penetration is anal rather than vaginal which might cause permanent physical damage.
True Brit:
I was thinking about the PETA/animal welfare/anti-fox hunt types and the issue of ritual slaughter. They sure didn't seem too worried about offending Jews or Muslims. The media are definitely the quislings of the 21st century.
And, as I recall, there was a society to protect animals from cruelty in Britain (and North America) before there was one for children. The impetus for a childrens' welfare society came when the SPCA started intervening on behalf of abused children.
elephant... The Ayatollah Khomeini wrote a book called Tahrirolvasyleh.
here is some of it...
A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate; sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life.
This girl, however, does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister.
It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.
A man can have sex with animals such as sheeps, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.
Are the Police in West Midlands not obligated to uphold British law...no matter who breaks it...is that not the oath they took when they became officers....offering 'special' treatment to a person or group is wrong in any circumstances, however when children are involved it is ten thousand times more wrong...children rely on the adults in their lives to protect them, and when it is the adults in their lives that are the ones harming them, they must rely on other adults, especially those that are trusted and have taken an oath to 'serve and protect' to sheild them from harm...this is a disgrace to the police dept...as for the muslims involved, I expect nothing less.
Setanta and others: While I'm aware of Muhammad's pedophilia, would readily see Khomeini as a dirty old man, and hold that such things show that Islam cannot be from a Holy God,
I'm not sure what the faith-freedom picture of a mullah kissing a boy proves.
Why is any display of affection between persons of the same sex homosexual? That mullah could have been me, and that kid could have been my nephew or son after a long separation--and I assure you, I have changed too many diapers in my life and have too much respect for other people to ever want to sodomize anyone. In Mediterranean countries, kissing among men is a common greeting--even when the men are about as hetero as the day is long. Middle-aged and older Chinese men with scads of children and grandchildren hold hands and touch arms, thighs, shoulders, or backs with close male friends. I have no problem with Latino friends who give me abrazos. Hence, in the faith-freedom picture, maybe the kid is the mullah's nephew who's just joined a class after a long absence from a fond uncle.
Now, if that mullah was sodomizing the kid as well, by all means, throw the book at him! But, it is a fundamental of MY religion that we think as well of people as we can as long as we can; and we do not bear false witness against a neighbor--even if he is a Muslim
Kepha1...in some countries,kissing among men is a common thing,yes.
But kissing on the cheeks not on the lips.
Muslims come to civilized countries eventhough they despise our way of life...they still come,not to escape persecution or to have a better life.
They come to our countries because they are on a mission,they want to invade us,to demographically flood us and subjugate us in the end.
No child would want to be kissed on the lips by a man. That kiss obviously looks sexual.
Kepha, if you think well of everyone without using your commonsense then you'll fail to protect children from the perversions of adults. And how christian will that be?
Voltaire, Adela, others: Of course I think that abuse of children is a very serious issue, and if someone abused my son sexually, I'd probably have to be restrained and kept away from any sharp object I could use to cause grievous bodily injury to the perp. Also, I freely admit to being a homophobe, and see no need to change my ways (I honestly consider homosexuality an abomination in the sight of God and every healthy society--and I'm especially horrified at the sexual abuse of children).
I'm also for prosecuting child rapers to the full extent of the law--but I'm also wary that people can abuse the law to go after people against whom they hold grudges. There was a case a few years back where the family that ran a private day-care facility were railroaded by over-zealous prosecutors and social workers browbeating and planting suggestions with four-year-olds. This was a case of over-zealousness.
Someone familiar with the Middle East: is kissing on the mouth necessarily sexual in that part of the world? There are cultures where ALL kissing is "freakish", and husbands and wives do a lot of hand-holding in public and petting in private, but no kissing--if you get my drift.
Abuse comes in many forms. We tend to drift toward focusing on the sexual variety when the word arises in conversation. When discovered, prosecution follows.
Physical abuse is sometimes found in extreme Christian communities and the perpetrators are prosecuted -- no excuses are allowed.
Emotional abuse is a large problem that is harder to defiine and to prosecute; but extreme cases have been.
It is my understanding that many European countries now have laws preventing parents from spanking (abusing?) their children. Why, then, would Britons worry whether or not they offend the sensibilities of Muslims by prosecuting those that are breaking an established law? Could the answer be that creeping Islamization has already overwhelmed British law and that Sha'ria will be soon imposed upon them?
Abuse comes in many forms. We tend to drift toward focusing on the sexual variety when the word arises in conversation. When discovered, prosecution follows.
Physical abuse is sometimes found in extreme Christian communities and the perpetrators are prosecuted -- no excuses are allowed.
Emotional abuse is a large problem that is harder to defiine and to prosecute; but extreme cases have been.
It is my understanding that many European countries now have laws preventing parents from spanking (abusing?) their children. Why, then, would Britons worry whether or not they offend the sensibilities of Muslims by prosecuting those that are breaking an established law? Could the answer be that creeping Islamization has already overwhelmed British law and that Sha'ria will be soon imposed upon them?
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think a key point is being missed. The police aren't necessarily respecting muslim attitudes and beliefs when they "tread lightly," it's that they are aware of how tightly the ummah closes up when threatened from outside. They want to arrest the perps, but without evidence they have no cause or case, and they can't get evidence if the local muslims close ranks because the investigation is seen by them as threatening.
It seems tactically sound, but it's dhimmi at its worst. They haven't yet learned from the Bush Doctrine that we need to be on the offensive against this kind of behaviour, and that the defensive, keep every thing stable approach has repeatedly failed. Within the bounds of British law they need to arrest the accused first, separate the children and interview them separately and privately. They need to separate the parents, interview husbands and wives separately, interview each family separate from all the others, and use all those NYPD Blue tricks that American law allows ("Ya know, we already got a confession from the Ustaz. He doesn't think he did anything wrong, but it's enough to put him away for ten years. We're just looking to identify all his victims and give them a chance to add their charges to his list. You wouldn't believe how many other families have come forth with complaints against this guy, we'll be weeks just typing them all up.") And they need to roust the mosques, schools and madrassas, "searching for evidence." Confiscate the computers and papers for careful review, and if they find evidence of other foul play, bring on the new charges. Mount cameras in the classrooms and hallways.
It's possible the ummah will close up tight and the cops in the end get nothing, but the message will get across--crap like child abuse will draw in the boys in blue, and they will make your lives expensive and miserable for years on end. If the desire to do right won't motivate the ummah, intimidation can still work.
IMHO, excellent post, longtime lurker.
Kepha1, I'm sorry, but I really think that deep-kissing, like that shown by that imam in the photo, cannot but lead to sexual arousal. In my mind, it goes way beyond affection.
Setanta, you're probably right--now that I took a second, longer look at the pic.
Of course, to recall another Middle Eastern story, I note in Genesis 29:11, Jacob kissed Rachel as she came to water her father's sheep. But, these kids were cousins, boy and girl, and, for all I know, it was the old Mediterranean, Mideasten, kiss the air beside the cheek (and, the story goes on to tell us, Jacob had to work long and hard before he could "go all the way").