Charles at Little Green Footballs has very kindly alerted me to an appalling example of dhimmitude at the Chicago Tribune: "Of Two Minds" (subtitled "Struggle for the Soul of Islam").
The Tribune reported the series, which ended this month, to answer some simple questions posed by readers in the wake of Sept. 11: Why are people from faraway lands attacking America and Americans? Why do they happen to be Muslims? Is there something about Islam that promotes violence?Reporters found little to suggest that Islam encourages violence, despite the impression Westerners might have because of exposure mostly to extremists. In fact, its venerable history suggests that Islam, like most religions, promotes peace and charity.
Now there is a load of taqiyya of which Ibrahim Hooper himself would be proud. If the Tribune reporters had done any research, or had any integrity, they might have stumbled over Qur'anic verses like these:
"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers." (2:191)"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (9:5)
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain..." (9:111)
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens." (47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter..." (5:33)
And there are so many others where those came from, and so many ahadith on the order of Sahih Muslim 1:33, in which Muhammad says: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah..."
I am not making all this up. There is no question that such passages exist, and many other similar ones. There is no question that Islam in history built an entire doctrinal system of religious warfare around them. There is no question that there is nothing genuinely comparable to such verses anywhere in the Bible or in any other religious text of any major religion.
These texts exist, and they show the Tribune to be engaged in a major whitewash. These texts exist, and they encourage violence: these verses and others are not only routinely cited by the "extremists" themselves; they are also used by the "extremists" to recruit new terrorists from among the moderates. The case of the Lackawanna 6 illustrates this. One may question whether these verses are known and obeyed by Muslims in one place or another -- and there is evidence that they were essentially dead letters in various places where Islamic culture settled into a reasonably comfortable arrangement with its neighbors, but that arrangement was always temporary, and dissolved when Muslims rediscovered their fervor.
This relaxation and deemphasis of jihadist sensibilities among cultural Muslims in Southern Europe and Central Asia is often mistaken nowadays for a "genuine," peaceful Islam that will ultimately triumph over the "extremists." But because the Islamic texts are not on their side, these cultural moderates are everywhere today in intellectual retreat in the Islamic world.
The Trib could have tried to argue that no Muslim takes these passages seriously -- but that contention would have foundered on the plain fact that so many do. So instead they try to pretend they simply aren't there, although there is no real question about their existence itself except for those who are ignorant or wish to deceive others. Which is it, Tribune?
But of course for the Trib, it's all America's fault:
But the Tribune series also showed how American foreign policy has angered Islamic radicals and moderates alike, from the suburbs of Chicago to the refugee camps of Gaza, from the dusty streets of Pakistan to the winding warren of stalls in Egypt’s colorful bazaars.Those who take action against America, such as the men who flew the planes into the World Trade Center, are a relatively small band.
But this radical fringe shrewdly capitalizes on the legitimate grievances of many moderate Muslims against American government policies, enabling the militants to extend their influence far beyond their numbers.
Can't help but wonder if the Tribune or this writer aren't Muslims themselves....I have a feeling they would never be able to understand the "legitimate grievances" of many AMERICAN'S against Muslims who among other things... fly airplanes into buildings
QUOTE :
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"I didn't entirely `get it' when he said those words in the early 1990s," said a former official who was at the meeting but asked not to be identified publicly.
"But it suddenly became very clear to me on Sept. 11, 2001. I was certain that, had King Hussein been alive and had he seen those planes crash into the World Trade Center, his first reaction would have been, `How dare you do such an obscene thing?' And then, I think, he also would have said, `But I understand why you do it.'"
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What a stupid bozo!
(Was there really such an "unamed official or is this a vehicle for the reporter to introduce this profound piece of stupidity?)
What rare insight! Has he just discovered America? This is what all muslims say and have been saying since plane hijackings began.
This is the problem with muslims. They ALL "WHILE NOT CONDONING, - 'UNDERSTAND'."(acts of terror - or murder, as in Van Gogh)
Imagine the reaction if Bush were to say "I don't agree with those american extremists who advocate nuking of muslim countries - BUT I UNDERSTAND THEIR FEELINGS."
And this is why The Chicago Tribune,The New York Times,LA Times,etc are losing their readers so fast.
And this is also why CBS,ABC,NBC,CNN,BBC are losing their viewers so fast.
I live in the Chicago area ,but i have not used The Chicago Tribune,not even when i have potty trained my dog.
As for the tv networks,i have even forgotten what channel number they are on.
One thing I think is important is to acknowledge the reality of the public battlefield.
It is a politically correct West, so lets use it.
Propaganda is a powerful tool, strong imagery, catch cry slogans and a short list of facts will get people thinking at least. Naturally then some will take up the cause. Rallies and public protests bring media coverage, Mr Spenser’s interviews, and court cases such as this one, bring the issue into daily dialogue. Then it becomes current debate and acceptable in the public mindset to have an opinion on such an unspeakable issue.
Social language, concepts and policies, as we have seen develops along side with its philosophical fads and current affairs, words like Islamaphobia, which we perceive as a derogatory term are not seen so by the general public.
Today’s iconic words;
humanitarian, ethically/politically correct, feminist, equality, educated opinion, tolerance, multicultural, human rights, awareness, spiritual, world peace and so on, are the PCspeak of current goodness, a lot of them actually fit our aims. These words are ours for the taking.
The first step in my eyes is to gain some public credibility. We are to easily lumped in with neo nazis, heartless Right and/or labelled as racists. Which of course we are not, we are freedom fighters, we are an oppressed society.
The slogans/aims of a campaign work well if it they are perceived as positive, a public face of idealism. Which lead to outcomes such as a “fairer system for all”, or “creating jobs for Aussie families” etc etc, as opposed to the racists and Christian right wing extremists who want to stop all immigration.
I believe deeply that there are many people who are secretly outraged at what they are seeing happen to their countries and cultures, but fear speaking out. If they had a “respectable” voice in our society I’m sure many thousands of western citizens would be very relieved to finally speak. Where would Amnesty etc stand on this? We are on the same side
The diversity of the West is what makes it capable of reviving its religion, philosophical education and general decency. It can slam a PC styled law suite on Islam for discrimination. It can have more babies and it can make good use of the over skilled childless adults.
This is a large worldwide organization to enable people to meet up physically and form groups.
http://www.meetup.com/
Look up your town and see if there is a meet up club against oppression if not start one. Anti Immigration or Rights for the Oppressed, what ever your take, all roads lead to Rome here.
Buy only Western products and encourage your friends to do so.
Speak to people about this issue, don’t speak hatefully, instead be concerned.
Don’t alienate your allies. United we stand divided we fall.
Write to politicians and media asking for debate and reform.
Cheers
I don't know whether it's just naivety or deliberate deceit. Either they relied on some Muslim spokesperson for this information, someone who naturally lied thru their teeth (taqiyaa), or they know it does promote violence but are so rabidly anti-American that they choose to hide this fact from its readership. Personally I think it's the latter.
How do they explain attacks against non-American targets, i.e., Bali, Madrid, Beslan? Gee, the attackers just happen to be Muslim too. How about the American converts to Islam who are also up to no good? And the Australian converts to Islam? And the British ones? No, they're just angry at American foreign policy and their allies, nothing to do with their newfound religion. No, not at all. (Rolling my eyes, shaking my head in disbelief.)
I think that there are too many people who know nothing of the problems that Churchill had in alerting the free world while the mentally blind Chamberlain and supporters told everyone to go and sleep well. Peace in our time.
History has lost its importance in the eyes of our educators.
Bush may be the best we have today, but he is no Churchill. Churchill named names and identified the enemy.
Bush will only tell us that we are fighting against "suicide belts" or "evil militants".
Maybe we will have to start parading wearing Tshirts with verses from the scriptures on them and bandaids over our mouths.
And infidels will have to attend mosques and then maybe we can sue for violent verses being quoted from the koran.
Inciteful Quotes are permitted in mosques, but not in court.
How odd!
Saudi Investment in the States is somewhere around 10 per cent overall . Saudi prince Al Waleed is known to have very large investments in the media.
With that much money at stake, the directors at CNN or any of the MSM will be very careful not to offend one of their most important investors....
{Al Waleed is the American educated Saudi who tried to give Rudolph Giuliani a 10 million dollar cheque a few days after
9/11- while his entourage was passing out leaflets: that America should "rethink it's policy in the middle east")
Giuliani refused the cheque...
Yes, one must be aware that muslims who start attacking westerners can be charged with hate crimes, just like a white person can against someone of color. Oh, but not in Canada; they are so far gone. In Canada, if you are white, and are attacked by a Muslim, it must have been your fault to allow the righteous Muslim to be angered by you. You will be arrested and charged with angering an immigrant, and offending him or her by showing your existence.
Terminator,
Refusing that cheque is bloody beautiful.
Uhller,
I so agree about Mr Chamberlain, I think it’s a great reminder and needs to be retold over and over.
I think the thing that is holding the liberals or PCers back from supporting us is that they are frightened of a witch-hunt on Muslims.
The nature of the Islamic attack, the insidious wearing down of our will into apathy and acceptance through terrorism and Sharia law is what we are fighting. As much as there is physical war there is war for the Mind of the West.
How do we approach the liberals? All I can think of is asking to use a totally encompassing form of Political Correctness, True Equal Rights.
IE judge all from the standard we judge ourselves. If Islam takes PC this far then can we take it this far as well? They ban xmas in our towns, as it is offensive, we ban the Islamic prayers on speakers, and wearing of those sack things in public, its to scary for the kids or what ever.
Or we don’t get tax breaks for extra wives so nor shall they in our countries. (while we still are majorities)
Western religion is up for debate so so shall Islam be up for debate. A lot of what we object to on here is a misuse of PC, not by ourselves but by Islam. Let the PCers know it.
I see public opinion as a battlefront of enormous importance, if we go back to the times of Mr Chamberlain, Mr Churchill and Mr Hitler, the latest fad of thinking was not political correctness but social Darwinism and Master race. (Open to misuse by Hitler and at the same time feeding Churchill’s mighty Will, or the Jews as they said you can take my body but never my soul as they were slaughtered).
In other words the Mind of the West is the fertile ground of our enemy, but also ours for the taking.
Anti Immigration or Freedom for the Oppressed, whatever the language, hopefully all roads lead to Rome!
And which group, Meredith, do you belong to?
If anyone lives in or near Vancouver Canada, please contact susan_b if you'd like to meet me for coffee.
I belong to that group of people who want to do something concrete. I'll pay for the coffee.
susan_b356@yahoo.com.
Susan is our conduit. If you write to her she will forward me a message. Ask her to protect your privacy if you wish. I'm always open to discussions beyond this board. Well, not always. I have nothing to say to Nazis and their cheerleaders. Everyone else, and that includes most people here, please feel free to write to susan_b.
I belong to a group i call THE WEST
Son of Walker,
My take on it is we are a multiskilled Islamic task force. No matter what side of the fence any of us fall on with in the West.
I don't belive in alienating my allies, no matter what i think of them in the luxery of peacetime.
Imagine the Christians fighting it alone as noneone else were "correct" enough to join their club or the military with out the propaganda machines of the over educated childless adult career advirtising heads etc.
Cheers
Things we can all do right now
Don’t be passive and lazy, to give in is an act of dhimmitude and you yourself are lost. My ancestors are Dutch, German and Scott and I am Australian, I will never give up. The battle is far from lost.
This is a large worldwide organization to enable people to meet up physically and form groups.
http://www.meetup.com/
Look up your town and see if there is a meet up club against oppression if not start one. Anti Immigration or Rights for the Oppressed, what ever your take, all roads lead to Rome here.
Buy only Muslim Free products and encourage your friends to do so.
Boycott shops that boycott Christmas, make a list of them pass it around.
Speak to people about this issue, don’t speak hatefully, instead be concerned and informed. This will enable polite but suppressed citizens to enter the conversation in a civil manner. There must be so many of them.
Don’t alienate your allies. United we stand divided we fall.
Try and own land, don't sell it to Islamic adgendas.
Son of Walker I will download your posters when they are ready and print them off and pass/post them out.
Speaking of flyers, here is a good one...
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
I"ll ask the question again, Meredith, since you didn't understand it the first time: "Which group do you belong to?" That would be in regard to wwww.meetup. It was your inclusion. If you thought somehow I'm suggesting you're a trendy-lefty, That's not an issue in my above post. I do, however take issue with you not bothering to understand what I write before you respond to it. Please take some time to grasp the sense of what I write or simply skip over it. Failing that, don't bother responding if you don't understand what I write. Otherwise, you end up making us both unhappy for no obvious reason.