Prayers then death

Even though the American media will report (or underreport) this article, media elites will still say that Islam is this a religion of peace.

It's acts like those of the Jakarta bombers that our leaders and the media should follow.

Here is a draft version of a petition for a new law that might help us do something practical(comments and improvements would be most welcome):

WHEREAS currently almost all majority-Muslim nations do not permit freedom of religious or intellectual belief and expression;

WHEREAS there is no consensus and much doubt among Islam scholars as to whether Islam will in the future and over the long term prove more compatible with pluralist democratic institutions than has hitherto been the case;

WHEREAS Islam differs from the other major world religions in the greater extent to which its central documents promote theocracy and the use of violent means to attain it;

WHEREAS Islam's central documents contain a plan to spread Islamic theocracy over the whole earth, if need be by force;

WHEREAS, pursuant to statements in Islam's central documents, and as repeatedly shown in historical practice, Islamic theocracy entails second-class status, at best, for persons of non-Islamic faiths, including frequently appalling economic, political and cultural discrimination and repression;

WHEREAS these troubling aspects of Islamic governments and of Islam's central documents and plan have not been explicitly repudiated by a majority or even a plurality of Muslims in any nation anywhere;

WHEREAS Islamic partisans and organizations are currently involved in dozens of violent conflicts all over the globe, with Hindus, Christians, Jews and persons of other faiths;

WHEREAS very few Muslims have been willing unambiguously to speak out against the intentional targeting of civilians that is a hallmark of terrorism;

WHEREAS there are moderate Muslims, but Islam itself, considered worldwide, is rarely moderate, either in its central documents or in its political practices;

WHEREAS Muslim immigration to the U.S. will over time increasingly put at risk liberal institutions achieved through millennia of struggle for the advance of civilization;

WHEREAS citizenship and its accompanying influence over U.S. governing institutions and documents must be withheld from persons with allegiance to a worldwide movement that in practice widely supports eventual establishment everywhere of dictatorial theocratic rule;

NOW THEREFORE, we urge passage of legislation affirming that until a majority of majority-Muslim nations become pluralist democracies respecting religious and civil freedoms as described in the Universal of Declaration of Human Rights, immigrants from those nations to the U.S. shall be ineligible for U.S. citizenship.

BANG ON ED
THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST COMMENTS CONCERNING ISLAM I HAVE EVER READ
I would like this also to apply to europe, australia,and any other free thinking nation
now back to my comment:- Indonesian court requests clemency on behalf of Bali bombers 06/12/2004 23:00:54
An Indonesian court has submitted a request for presidential clemency on behalf of two men sentenced to death for the Bali nightclub blasts.
Court requests for clemency are automatic under Indonesian law if those convicted are sentenced to death and do not submit a request themselves.
The two bombers, Amrozi and Imam Samudra, failed to file for clemency by a November 3 deadline following their convictions as key players in the October 12, 2002, which killed 202 people.
Court spokesman, I Made Suratmadja, has described the clemency request as "a matter of legal procedure", saying it can be years before the president gives an answer.
More than two dozen Indonesian militants have been convicted over the Bali bombings, blamed on the Southeast Asian Islamic militant group, Jemaah Islamiah, which authorities say has links to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network
'' Don't you ever feel cheated '' Johnny Rotten,at the end of his last concert with the Sex Pistols
It's acts like those of the Jakarta bombers that our leaders and the media should follow.

Shiva said: BANG ON ED
THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST COMMENTS CONCERNING ISLAM I HAVE EVER READ

Thanks!!!! I have sent the above draft petition you liked so much to Robert and Hugh in the hope they will produce a better version that everyone everywhere can sign!

Ed,

Bravo to you! When are you starting your petition/signature drive. I would llike to get permanent copies of the petition so I could give it to my friends here at UC Berkeley.

Deutschboy said:

When are you starting your petition/signature drive. I would like to get permanent copies of the petition so I could give it to my friends here at UC Berkeley.

I'd like to start it as soon as possible. I want to see first if Robert, Hugh or other experts will write a better version. For example, 1) its claims could use footnotes citing references. 2) The petition needs to be vetted by people with expert knowledge of the best political and legal way to formulate the basic goal of the petition. Without that vetting, the petition could be dead at birth, in terms of its ability to accomplish anything real (new immigration laws).

Jihad is a holy duty--an obligation and an honor. The sixth pillar of Islam. The mujahideen are holy, pious warriors.

And even though it is now revealed that these fiends went to worship in a "holy" place before glorious shahada, the West's useful idiots will still exculpate Islam. The mujahideen will magically be transformed into extremists and the mainstream death cult they follow will be removed from their base acts and be called the Religion of Peace™.

Extract from Chechnya
'I liked it that the Arabs want to go on making war until they liberate the whole world from the giaours[infidels]. Some of our people disagreed with that. But the Arabs said that the Ghazavat [holy war] should go on until all the Christians are converted to Islam...The Arabs said that all Muslims are one people, no matter what nation they came from.'
Yes, all set out in writing folks like Hitler's "Mein Kampt" Yet Leftist Journalists would have us believe Islam is a Religion of "Peace." Pieces might be a better word...

A real Muslim owes his/her allegiance exclusiviely to Allah and Allah's laws (sharia)and no one else. Unlike other religions, Islam do not separate religion from state or any aspects of live. To swear alleagiance to the US Constitution and flag is almost like "shirk" to equate it with Allah who demands 100% allegiance and loyalty.

Muslims who take up US citizenships are either ignoring this dilemma or practicing taqiya and working towards the imposition of sharia as the supreme law of USA. This is the rationale behind their incessant demands and drive to recognize Islamic dresscode, recognition of Islamic holidays, prayer times and prayer rooms for islamic dressing, using Islamic laws for their marriage, divorce, etc like what they have achieved in Canada.

Hi Shiva!

Rest assured that the Bali bombers will be out in 5 years,- say 2010 at the latest.

'Bambang Yuhyono" is on record denying that Jemayah Islamiah exists:' There is no evidence of JI...."

In spite of all this, they (the Indonesians) are treated as equals, our politico's kow- tow to them and generally succeed to blackmail them with expensive 'gifts' in the form of AID from us, the taxpayers...For good relations, as it is...

But you know all that of course, so I can rely on you fighting the war of idealism and good v/s evil hoping I can be of some help along the way. But as long as I see Bush handing out medals to Paul Bremer and to Tenet for missing 9/11 I can only say: "I hear the message, but it doesn't sound right and anyhow: I lack the belief..."

Muslims are right. Non of the existing Islamic countries are truly Islamic, that is why they don't progress and most of them are poor, corrupt and miserable. We must implement 100% sharia and sunna to get full benefits of Islam. Inshallah we will try to do it in USA to make it the first real Muslim country after the days of rightly guided khalifas Consider the following advantages:

- America can go to jihad against non Muslim countries. It will bring immense wealth in booty and millions of captured women. Canada and Mexico can be easy targets and are conveniently located for easy assault and hauling of booty.

-Since slavery will be allowed government can open slave markets to sell it's 20% share of the captured women.

-Captured women/slave-girls can provide affordable domestic help for house wives and clean enjoyable sex for their husbands.

-Enslaved men can be used as farm labor and factory workers at a much lower cost than unionized labor.
There`s much more at:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/AyeshaAhmed41220.htm

Brilliant exposition, ed.

I look fwd to Robert and Hugh formalising it and getting it out. Maybe make an all-out blogosphere based effort to reach out to ever greater numbers of people from other blogs as well?

Terminator:
Sadly, I've but to agree with your prediction that these scumbag bombers are gonna be out in 5 yrs max in indonesia. If it were upto me, I'd infect them with something really nasty - how about chronic diahorrea or itching syndrome - so that they can go and spread the joy in their jihadi communities....

Ed,

You overlooked the "mosque" clause:

Whereas the construction or renovation of churches and temples in Muslim countries are forbidden, we impose a moratorium on the contruction or completion of all mosques in the U.S.A.

And, extract from extract:
"... The Arabs said that all Muslims are one people, no matter what nation they came from.'"

This explains why Sunni Muslims targeted their Shiite Muslim brethern with a massive coordinated carbomb campaign yesterday.

Ed,

Thank you for the detailed suggestion. It is right in line with some other suggestions, and maybe the need for solutions to Islam is growing stronger. I think that if the expert review you talk about could be realized, you would get a lot of signatures!

I also posted some suggestions earlier, on another thread, and since the topic is "solutions," I'll beg your indulgence and post it again here.

"It has been quite apparent for some time that the Islamic plan to conquer the world has been picking up speed of late.

With Spain's acquiescence, Sweden's and Holland's heads in the sand, France's, Germany's, Belgium's, China's, and Russia's corruption and cowardice, with the EU's pandering to Turkey, with Canada's psychotic policies, with whatever it is that's going on in Mexico, our own disastrous border policies and commitment to P.C., and so on, and on, and ON, we are obviously in serious trouble.

It would have been wonderful if, as recently as 50 years ago, we had had a rational school system in place; had that been the case, the intellectual foundation could have been laid in about 4-5 academic generations of citizens who would now be able to recognize and respond to the danger.

While it would definitely be worth while to establish a private educational system to begin to educate our children, the "educational solution" is obviously a long-term one.

It would also be wonderful if some people with knowledge, committment, courage, and vision could make some block-buster adventure movies about the various components of the danger presented by Islam from its inception to the present.

The "movie solution" could have an effect much sooner than the "education solution," but it would be only an "intermediate-term" solution.

Still an intermediate-term solution, but shorter than the "movie solution," is the "historical novel" solution. Historical novels deal with factual matters in the context of adventure, not unlike the "movie solution," but it wouldn't take nearly as much time to get it out to the people.

Of course, there are many other subjects, such as Muhammad's life (including the brief history of events leading up to the invention of Islam), the near-miss with reason that Islam had when the Ash'arites and Mu'tazilites had their unfortunate quibble, the story of Ibn Rushd, when Islam threw away its last chance with reason (and by so doing, handed the gift off to Europe, which appears to be repeating that mistake even as we speak), the incredible adventure of Pelayo, and so on.

It could be a breathtaking series that would provide a total end-run around the educational system that has been our greatest obstable to seeing reality.

Unfortunately, nothing comes to mind that would represent a short-term solution. I fear that only a successful, very large attack by Zarqawi would bring Europe et al. to their senses. With that, the individual citizens could exert their influence and force their governments to help them respond to the threat."

I also think that a radio talk show hosted by Robert would be a big help.

volleti said:
I look fwd to Robert and Hugh formalising [the above draft petition for a new immigration law] and getting it out. Maybe make an all-out blogosphere based effort to reach out to ever greater numbers of people from other blogs as well?

volleti, I don't know if Robert or Hugh will think the project worthwhile, but I look forward to what their response (if any) might be.

I would love to do as you say: an all out blogosphere based effort.

Jay said:
You overlooked the "mosque" clause:

Whereas the construction or renovation of churches and temples in Muslim countries are forbidden, we impose a moratorium on the contruction or completion of all mosques in the U.S.A.

Jay, you do well to point out that unjust asymmetry. I am open to considering your addition to the draft petition, though I suspect it would run smack into the First Amendment and so is probably not a viable addition. Success for a petition like the one in my comment above is most likely if it mainly curtails the rights of non-citizens (in this case, the right to become a citizen), whereas what you propose would curtail the rights of U.S. citizens who are Muslim. So what you propose probably would not be politically possible till a terrorist sets off a small nuke or the like somewhere, and maybe not even then.

Cubed, I enjoyed your discussion of movies and historical novels and the rest. Why does Hollywood's loudly voiced concern about repression and censorship seem to shrink to barely a peep when it comes to Theo Van Gogh and his movie? Oh, they probably blame U.S. actions for provoking Van Gogh's near-beheading. The self-righteousness of a totalitarian religion with plans of world-domination has nothing to do with it.

And add in the prayer the declaration that:

NOW THEREFORE, we urge passage of legislation affirming that until a majority of majority-Muslim nations become pluralist democracies respecting religious and civil freedoms as described in the Universal of Declaration of Human Rights, "therefore proclaim the MARTYRS to be those who fight for civil liberty," and not the Muslim immigrants whose nations to the U.S. shall be ineligible for U.S. citizenship.

Sign me up~!