"On November 22, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security sent an intelligence bulletin to police agencies to alert them that terrorist groups have shown an interest in using laser beams to try to bring down airliners." From CNN, "Lasers illuminate airline cockpits on approach," with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Six commercial airliners in the past four days have had their cockpits illuminated by laser beams while attempting to land, a government official told CNN Wednesday.The incidents have happened "all over the place" and in "kind of odd places," the official said without elaborating.
None of the flights was affected.
The government official, who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity, said it was unclear whether this week's incidents were the result of "kids who got a laser light for Christmas" or whether there is "some deliberate attempt to target aircraft."
The cockpit of a Continental Airlines 737 was illuminated by a laser Monday as it approached Cleveland, authorities said.
FBI spokesman Bob Hawk said the light, which shined into the cockpit at around 8 p.m., came from a suburb about 15 miles from the airport.
The FBI said no harm was done and the light did not affect the plane's landing.
On November 22, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security sent an intelligence bulletin to police agencies to alert them that terrorist groups have shown an interest in using laser beams to try to bring down airliners.
"Terrorist groups overseas have expressed interest in using these devices against human sight," the bulletin said. "The U.S. intelligence community has no specific or credible evidence that terrorists intend to use lasers to target pilots in the homeland."
The bulletin said lasers were not a proven method of attacking aircraft but that they could lead to a crash.
This is why we must never stop spying on muslims, raiding their houses, ineterrogating them (and torturing them if necessary) to find out everything we can. They never stop trying to find new wats of causing death amongst us, so we should never stop discovering what these methods are. They will sink to any level as we know.
Anthrax in letters is something I feel is terrifying , but at the same time it shows us what cowardly, devious, canniving schemes they develop.
The foot and mouth desease in the UK in 2001 was ominous in my view, and I think it was a terrorist attack, it put farmers out of buisness, billions of pounds of livestock were culled, the economy was ravaged (which is one of the many targets of the jihad against the west as we know).
This laser beams fiasco is the latest. I don't think it requires a great imagination to think what devastating consiquences could be raught with such tools. Imagine if a terroris of group of them staged a fake runway outside LAX, causing the planes to crash land into the suburbs of Los Angeles.
We can't give in to the PC crowd ordering our governments to release suspected terrorists, our security is more important than that PC BS.
One, or two incidents, okay I'd think: unsupervised kids being little jerks needing a good talking to. But several? And all over the place? Hmmmm. And if the FBI has had reports of terrorists showing an interest in using these devices ... hmmmm again. Terrorists show the only bit of creativity and intelligence when it comes to mass murder and destruction. Too bad they couldn't focus that energy on something more productive. Like dragging their "religion" into the current century.
Funny, but my son has one of those thingies. I had no idea it could shine on objects so far away as an airplane 15 miles away. That's scary.
According to the CNN link . . .
"In certain circumstances, if laser weapons adversely affect the eyesight of both pilot and co-pilot during a non-instrument approach, there is a risk of airliner crash," the bulletin said.
What does CNN mean by the term 'laser weapons'.
The thought that feralee's (post above) toys could do damage to anyone is frightening.
What is considered 'weapon' grade in lasers? How big would the device be? How regulated (if at all) is this item? What is the power source for a
'weapon' grade laser? Is a weapon of this type, easily concealed?
justamomof4,
As I remember, a laser of 75 milliwatts is sufficient to cause damage to the human eye - not sure of the instant effects or if that is considered weapons grade. A laser can be quite small, easily concealed, and powered by a battery pack if necessary. The U.S. military has examined the idea of mounting lasers under the barrel of the m16 rifle, so that gives you the idea of what can be done with these devices.
It's only going to take one more attack on the scale of 9/11 -- or perhaps, 50% of the destruction of 9/11 -- before this "misunderstanding" between civilizations blows wide open into total war. At that point, there will be no further UN resolutions, no coffee clutches with Jacques Chirac, and no more Muslim sensitivity training sessions for the FBI. Bin Laden will have achieved precisely what he set out to achieve but the consequences for his faithful flock will be on a scale which he could not have predicted on September 10, 2001.
My son's is a laser pen. Looks exactly like a pen. I can't believe it could be that powerful. It just produces a small dot. He's had it for a few years. Maybe there's some newer models that are way more dangerous. If so, what the heck are they doing selling those to the public???? They should be banned. I'm doubtful of the explanation that it might be some kids who got one for Christmas, if it's some new laser that is so powerful like that. Sounds pretty ominous to me.
December 10th, 2004 - FBI Warns Pilots to Look Away from Unexpected Light
Asia Pacific Post
December 9, 2004
As airlines gear up for a heavy travel holiday season, a new FBI threat assessment suggests terrorists may use military-grade laser blinding systems to down planes The Federal Bureau of Investigation is warning airline pilots to look immediately away from unexpected sources of light in a new alert that suggests terrorists may use military-grade laser blinding systems to down planes.
As airlines gear up for a heavy travel holiday season, a new FBI threat assessment suggests terrorists may use military-grade laser blinding systems to down planes "Although lasers are not proven methods of attack like improvised explosive devices and hijackings, terrorist groups overseas have expressed an interest in using these devices against human sight," states a security bulletin issued by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
"Severe eye injuries can result when individuals are exposed to these devices… In certain circumstances, if laser weapons adversely affect the eyesight of both pilot and co-pilot during a non-instrument approach, there is a risk of an airliner crash."
The bulletin, obtained by The Asian Pacific Post, is dated Nov. 22, 2004 and titled 'Potential Laser Threat'. It is understood that the FBI is investigating at least three recent lasing incidents in the United States. It, however, does not believe that the incidents are terrorist-related.
The first was on Sept 22, 2004 where a beam of green light hit an aircraft approaching the Salt Lake City airport in Utah. The incident caused retina burns on a first officer who has been temporarily removed from flight status.
The second occurred on November 7, 2004 at the San Diego Airport where three commercial airliners reported observing green lights coming from a direction northeast of the runway after departure.
The third occurred two days later near Houston International Airport where flight crews on four aircraft observed a green laser light shining into the air near the Conroe, Texas area, about 25 miles northwest of the airport.
The lasing incidents have prompted the U.S. Transportation Security Administration and the U.S. Missile and Space Intelligence Center to study what happens when a laser beam strikes the cockpit of a Boeing 727 aircraft.
A security consultant who advises Canada-based airlines said he is aware of the bulletin but stressed that the intelligence community has no credible or specific threat regarding the use of lasers.
"All airlines and the pilot community are aware of lasing and potential threats..the threat is listed as low," he said in a telephone interview from Toronto. "It is unfortunate that this is getting media attention during the peak holiday travel season," he added.
The FBI said it has no indication that terrorist groups have obtained military-grade laser blinding systems or that such a potential weapon is available on the black market. However, American intelligence officers have been monitoring the production and exhibition of military-grade laser blinding systems in several countries.
Chinese-made ZM-87 Laser Blinder that has been shown off at military exhibitions in Manila and Abu Dhabi One such laser weapon is the Chinese-produced ZM-87 laser blinder which is designed to blind optics such as night vision equipment and the human eye. It has been displayed at defence exhibitions in Manila and Abu Dhabi.
The FBI also noted that that Japanese terrorist cult Aum Shinrikyo, which gained infamy for its 1995 Sarin gas attack on a Tokyo subway, had experimented with the use of lasers as weapons.
Cult members apparently obtained laser design information from Russian institutes they visited and built a laser weapon mounted on a truck. They had planned to use the laser against Tokyo policemen but the plan failed when the laser malfunctioned during the testing stage.
The FBI states that terrorists with access to substantial financial resources are more likely to obtain laser hardware from commercial off-the-shelf industrial sources rather than military sources.
"These devices are used in medical, industrial and educational facilities and are more susceptible to theft. The commercial off-the-shelf lasers are not designed for use as weapons, but they can be easily modified for such purposes."
Providing a conceptual terrorist attack using a laser system, the FBI said that a small lightweight laser system could be hidden indoors or outside with relative ease until and during the time of an attack.
"For example, a terrorist/criminal could be perched on an elevated platform and target pedestrians below at will… Of greater concern would be a laser system used to target drivers hauling hazardous materials or fuel tankers," said the FBI, which estimated that such a weapons system could be put together for about US$50,000.
Exposure to laser light can produce an effect known as flash blindness, which leads to temporary loss of vision, disorientation and discomfort. Serious eye injuries can occur when the light is so intense that the retina is perforated resulting in hemorrhage.
The human eye is most sensitive to green light and lasers which emit light in the green wavelength is thought to be the most effective for Sept 22,"blinding applications".
In addition to advising pilots to look immediately away from unexpected sources of light, the FBI is also recommending that airlines consider installing laser warning devices on their planes and that more explicit warnings be attached to commercially available lasers, including the small hand-held ones used for briefings.
One of the most high-profile cases involving the use of a laser on an aircraft occurred on April 4, 1997 off the coast of British Columbia.
Lt. Cmdr. Jack Daly hit by laser beam from a Russian ship off B.C. In the incident former U.S. Navy Lt. Cmdr. Jack Daly and Canadian Coast Guard Capt. Pat Barnes were in a helicopter on a routine intelligence-gathering mission. Barnes was the pilot, Daly the observer as they photographed the Russian merchant ship Kapitan Man in the Strait of Juan de Fuca.
The freighter was suspected of gathering intelligence on U.S. nuclear submarines transiting through the strait to and from the Trident submarine base in Bangor, 20 miles west of Seattle. On that day, it was believed to be shadowing the USS Ohio.
Daly and Barnes recall seeing a bright flash of light from the ship and felt pain in their eyes. Both men were not believed by their governments. Barnes after a long battle got the Canadian government to eventually recognize his eye injuries as service-connected.
The U.S. Navy not only denied Daly medical treatment as a veteran, it this year rejected a Pentagon recommendation that the former officer be given the Purple Heart - a military award to soldiers who have been killed or wounded in combat.
Navy officials rejected the Purple Heart recommendation because the ship was from the former Soviet Union which is now not considered a "hostile foe" of the United States
OK, thanks for all the info. Bit much to take in . . .but . . .can we protect ourselves against this type of threat. I'm no techie, but I wonder about polarizing the glass on windshields (mirror type reflection/deflection of concentrated rays).
Isn't that what certain sunglasses do?
I think its highly unlikely they could damage -both- eyes of -both- pilots enough to cause a crash in a moving plane.
There are such things as laser range-finders though. And seems more likely as to what is going on. The more data available, the greater chance of success for a projectile hit from the ground.
Feralee (et al):
Don't worry, your son's red-light laser pointer isn't powerful enough to injure the pilots on a plane. Neither are the common "laser sights" that you see attached to small firearms (a la the Schwarzenegger/Terminator "Sarah Connor?" laser sight). Those are Helium/Neon ("HeNe") lasers, and extremely weak. As the article by Shiva points out, the lasers used as military weapons are expensive and not available at your local Target.
The CNN article also failed to mention that one of planes was at an altitute of 8,000 feet when it was hit. There is no way that a common HeNe laser could have illuminated the jet from that distance. The laser used in that instance had to be some type of laser built for military, academic, medical or industrial purposes.
Back in graduate school i worked a few times with an argon laser, which had a blue-green light, and everybody in the lab wore special glasses which "filtered" out the wavelength of the laser light. I suppose that the FAA might have to mandate that cockpit windows be built to filter out the wavelengths of military lasers as well.
SHIVA, you have alot on your mind, just like Catherine. Face it , muslims are stronger because they are not afraid to die.
Well, even the small lasers come with warnings about pointing them in peoples eye. Just momentary contact with the eye won't do damage, but a long duration exposure might.
The government official pondering whether the laser in cockpits is the result of a kids Christmas toy needs to be yanked out his job for being too stupid! He could have simply done a little research and found out that Warrensville Ohio is 80% Muslim. Muslims cannot be trusted -- I don't care if they grew up in the house next store.
Hey juicealot -- don't under estimate the strength of anyone, particularly shiva, on this forum. I think most here are willing to fight and die for what's right. See, my Muslim hugging friend, there is a big difference in what you call "strength" and what in truth is envy, hatred perfidy, and the willingness to send ones children to murder innocent human beings for domination and 'booty.'
What do they do to seditious traitors in the Saudi Kingdom? Maybe we should adopt some of their methods ...
"OK, thanks for all the info. Bit much to take in . . .but . . .can we protect ourselves against this type of threat. I'm no techie, but I wonder about polarizing the glass on windshields (mirror type reflection/deflection of concentrated rays).
Isn't that what certain sunglasses do?
Posted by: justamomof4 at December 30, 2004 10:23 AM"
Justamom,
I think that there is a technology on the horizon that will help a lot, if or when this particular tactic becomes a problem--which it doubtless will.
Darius mentioned a special lens that filters out the wave-length of the laser; in addition (maybe he was talking about this sort of thing), there is a laser-protective coating that can be used on goggles. It's formed from tiny "paddle-shaped" structures made with individual molecules mounted on a gold surface in an electric field. It has been developed precisely in response to dangers such as this.
I don't think the laser threat will be allowed to get too far along without some counter-measure.
Now if we could just convince our government that Islam is the problem. . .
"SHIVA, you have alot on your mind, just like Catherine. Face it , muslims are stronger because they are not afraid to die.
Posted by: juicealot at December 30, 2004 10:56 AM"
Muslims are weaker because they don't know how to live.
If the Great American Eagle Spirit could find a talent in the Big Bear Market the Nature of the Beast would not be so hard on America. What do you use your talents for? America should vote for its Four Star Military Generals for US President and turn to marshall law~! This is too much overhead for representation, better through some tea in that harbor again, American NDN, lol aka: Archangelrpr...To God be the Judge & God Be the Glory~!
Cubed, good point.
So why do you all want to live forever -if one day we could all be with God? Put all this religion up here to prove it~! Do you store your treasures in Heaven! The Eagle is at a Crossroads and the directions depend on the Bull & the Bear market. so i Propose amendment treaty to apply the Golden Rule~~! Some body here gotta show we are worthy of heaven, tear. Here comes the wrath of Mother Nature for her pangs of mankind.....For Iraqi immigrants, it is safer to be in our military with a gun in hand than to be in just one of America's citys~! Now thats a free country~! God Bless America in the New Year~! I am Proud of what your rying to, even for the weary wars of Islam.
How about industrial lasers or lasers used in big-stage laser light shows? Those can get pretty powerful can't they? Although not available at K-Mart they can be aquired easily enough.
f.g.
Kentim:
I should have been more specific. The HeNe lasers aren't powerful enough to blind a pilot in a jet from thousands of feet away, or even several hundred yards away. This does *not* mean that they can be handled recklessly, and as you correctly point out, all HeNe lasers come with a warning notifying the user not to point one at the face of a person. While i was in school there was an incident where a person who suffered damage to the retina from a powerful HeNe laser. It struck him right in the eye from about ten feet away. It was a very bad lab accident and he wasn't wearing goggles with the proper filters.
Not all Muslims are as willing to die as they'd like us to believe. Look at bin Laden and Zarqawi, these two salamanders duck and hide every chance they get. They aren't men. They're gutless predators who prey on the unsuspecting.
If God, not Allah, but our true, and actual God would grant me 2 minutes each with them inside closed quarters like that of an iron-barred cage, it'd be my pleasure to dislocate various sections of their skeletal system, and watch them lay there, crying from the pain until they eventually pass out.
Or, since the great bin Laden can't even pee on his own, we can wait for him to eventually wither away in to hell. As for Zarqawi, the thought of yanking his fake leg off and beating him to a pulp with it remains oh so tempting.
Sorry, I'm in a mood today.
Isn't the real danger of lasers their ability to guide a surface-to-air missle by reflecting off the selected target's surface?
Hey "Mike", if you are here, read this.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004461.php#c63159
As for what "juicealot" wrote here (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63140)
"SHIVA, you have alot on your mind, just like Catherine. Face it , muslims are stronger because they are not afraid to die.
Posted by: juicealot at December 30, 2004 10:56 AM"
and what "cubed" wrote here (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63150)
""SHIVA, you have alot on your mind, just like Catherine. Face it , muslims are stronger because they are not afraid to die.
Posted by: juicealot at December 30, 2004 10:56 AM"
Muslims are weaker because they don't know how to live.
Posted by: cubed at December 30, 2004 11:27 AM"
you two need to be a bit more serious.
The Muhammadeans (Muslims) are, at the moment, stronger. Actually they are not strong at all. They are in fact weak. It just so happen that we (or many among us) are even weaker, especially in the head. Although many thousands of innocent people have been butchered by this satanic cult, people have not really woken up to it yet.
They are stronger because they are cunning and we are weak beause we are blind to their scheming.
If they win then they deserve to. If we perish then it is our just reward.
Western civilisation has left God and for that it will be punished. It is written in the Bible. While it was Christian it prospered. Now that it no longer is, it will decay, collapse, be devoured, become extinct and be wiped out.
The only solution is to repent and return to God.
Otherwise die as you deserve to.
As for what "cubed" wrote, Muhammadeans don't know how to live but they sure know how to kill. So unless people wake up those who know how to live won't have very much longer to live.
There are only two choices
REPENT and return to the Lord JESUS or DIE
Happy New '05 Year to Live to Ride & Ride to Live or I walk. Archangelrpr, me, 2U Lets see if we can live to see the poles of earth reverse their polarity for our Booming Generations~! to come~!
OT
cubed:
I left you a message on the "Iraq: Base . . ." thread.
Beam me up Capt. Kirk the Best of Holy War to Come~!
I will tell you what DC Watson (http://profile.typekey.com/DCWatson) you are definately in a good mood today. Keep it up.
ref.
DC Watson wrote
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63168
"Not all Muslims are as willing to die as they'd like us to believe. Look at bin Laden and Zarqawi, these two salamanders duck and hide every chance they get. They aren't men. They're gutless predators who prey on the unsuspecting.
If God, not Allah, but our true, and actual God would grant me 2 minutes each with them inside closed quarters like that of an iron-barred cage, it'd be my pleasure to dislocate various sections of their skeletal system, and watch them lay there, crying from the pain until they eventually pass out.
Or, since the great bin Laden can't even pee on his own, we can wait for him to eventually wither away in to hell. As for Zarqawi, the thought of yanking his fake leg off and beating him to a pulp with it remains oh so tempting.
Sorry, I'm in a mood today.
Posted by DCWatson at December 30, 2004 12:40 PM"
How about a plane-mounted air-to-ground missile that homes in on the laser-light source? I'd buy that for a dollar.
The “Informed (sic) Christian” writes:
>Otherwise die as you deserve to.
>There are only two choices
>REPENT and return to the Lord JESUS or DIE
This sounds terribly like Islamic rhetoric doesn’t it? Another highly spiritual being pelts us with his wisdom. “Worship my god or die!”
Sickening. That doesn't sound "Christian" or "informed".
f.g.
“Jesus wept.”
OT:
CGW, profitsbeard, and feralee,
Thank you; I saw your messages, and I deeply appreciate them. It doesn't happen often that I get that discouraged. I think it may have something to do with age, though, and that is, I very, VERY much want to live long enough to see us "get it" and WIN, and when even someone like the officer in Iraq doesn't "get it," I get into a blue funk.
Thanks to you all and a decent night's sleep and absolutely fantastic comments from JW posters, the blue funks don't last very long.
How could they, with daily communication with people who DO "get it"?
Thanks again!
juicealot
muslims are"LOOSERS"because they are not afraid to die.
juicealot"U"juicealot
This is pretty much a non story.
I'd like to see jihadwatch stick to it's usual important and factual stories. The fact that CNN reported it makes it less than important. There are too many 'mights' and 'maybes' in it. For what it's worth.
Shiva, you are way too angry. I have had alot of problems with people of the muslim faith. I have met ones that hate me outright, and I have met ones that are friends. You can't generalize
f.g.
We have trolls on the left,and now Orcs on the right,
Miss-Informed Christian
“Worship my god or die!”
You made the same mistake as naseem ,you googled Shiva then settled for the first thing you hit on
Siva, a Slavic goddess. Her name means "living, being, existing." She is is also known as Siwa, pronounced "sheeva" in modern Polish; she was worshipped in Poland, Czechoslavakia, East Germany. Also known as Russian Zhiva/Z'iva, Polabi Zhywie and Slovak Zivena. Even other forms of her name are Sivve, Shiwa, Sieba, Syeba, Siba and Dsiva . With regards to the etymology of her name, “some scholars associate the name with Dlugosz’s Zywye, others with the Indian SHIWA, [sic] god of life, still others with SIVA, 'grey'”.
OR
Shiva, "Auspicious" Hindu god; third member of the Hindu triad with Brahma and Vishnu. He is aso known as Ardhanarishvara, "Androgynous Lord", who is half-Shiva, half-female/half-shakti.
Shiva is known to have many forms,one of which is Nataraj,the king of dance.It is in this form that
Shiva/Nataraja crushes Apasmara Purusha [read Naseem]the demon of igorance,by dancing all over him.
This is the summary of the teachings of Shiva/Siva
Be kind. Be compassionate. Be honest. Be sincere. Be truthful. Be bold. Be pure. Be wise. Be virtuous. Enquire: 'who am I'? Know thy-Self and be free.
Shiva, are you calling from a hospital?
f.g's polemic here sound very Islamic. Its like a non-Islamic taqiyya.
Before I refute your cheap low shot, let me first say this.
Christianity is not about a POPULARITY CONTEST
The Lord Jesus said, and it has proven correct and is still being proved correct to this day that we are to tell the TRUTH and that people will hate us Christians for it.
So I am not surprised with all that anti-Christian hatred that is prevalent everywhere, not just in the Islamic world.
Christianity is not about sugary lies. It is about the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH, like it or not.
As for what f.g. wrote
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63195
"The “Informed (sic) Christian” writes:
>Otherwise die as you deserve to.
>There are only two choices
>REPENT and return to the Lord JESUS or DIE
This sounds terribly like Islamic rhetoric doesn’t it? Another highly spiritual being pelts us with his wisdom. “Worship my god or die!”
Sickening. That doesn't sound "Christian" or "informed".
f.g.
“Jesus wept.”
Posted by: f.g. at December 30, 2004 02:04 PM"
When I said "REPENT and return to the Lord JESUS or DIE" I didn't mean that in an Islamic sense of "accept Islam or DIE."
I am not saying that Christians will kill you if you don't worship my True God.
What I meant was, as it is written in the Bible, if the West disobeys God and go "a-whoring" after other false religions such as Atheism or whatever, then the West will be annihilated.
This is not me saying, it is in the Bible.
So what I meant was that God will destroy the West. Christians won't destroy it. It will be destroyed by non-Christians, Westeners themselves self-destructing or by outsiders such as the Muslims and others.
Take the example of the Nothern Kingdom of Israel. They disobeyed God who warned them and they reaped the consequences. They were wiped out by the Assyrians. Where are they now? Gone!
The West will follow the way of the Nothern Kingdom if they don't repent.
That is what I mean.
If they don't then trust me you will see. It might not happen in your life time but you will at least see the rot setting it before you die. Like that guy said "Rome wasn't burnt in a day."
Yes Jesus wept.
And he is still weeping.
He weeps for the lost suicidal lambs of the Western Civilisation who have left him and his love and who are now heading to slaughter. And that includes you too f.g.
juicealot"U"juicealot
Face it , muslims are stronger because they are not afraid to die.
And u say to me
You can't generalize
And you would be very surprised to know where I am callimg from
Selemat malam dan hati hati
Informed(sic) Christian:
I knew what you meant and I know where you're coming from, I've been there. Your careless use of language and cavalier attitude leave me cold. You said what you meant to say. Passive wraith or active wraith, it’s wrong either way bubba. You're all puffed up with your pious religiosity looking down your nose at the unwashed and wagging your finger at them. Don’t kid yourself. Repent sinner.
“This is not me saying, it is the Bible”.
What is the difference between you saying that and some Islamic nut saying, “This is not me speaking, it is the Koran”? Absolutely none. Get a clue. This type of argument is really pretty worthless here. I would even say it is counter productive.
The more you superstitious folks drag your gods and your mystical writings into it the more ridiculous the whole situation gets. Can’t you people see that? Of course you can’t, your minds are locked into a false reality created by dehydrated desert dwellers hundreds of years ago.
The aliens aren’t going to come to Earth and deities aren’t going to part the clouds to swoop down to solve our problems. They aren’t coming. We have to solve this problem ourselves and continually throwing each other’s myths in the other’s face isn’t going to do anything but exacerbate the problem. I mean really now.
f.g.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth …
WWLD - What Would Loki Do?
This is a test
great!
I think I've figgered this thing out!
great!
Since you said this "Informed(sic) Christian" f.g. I tink I am entitled to play a little with your name too.
Now you(BRAIN) frozen ghost (i.e. f.g.)
First you falsely accused me of saying "“Worship my god or die!”"
When I refuted your FALSE accusation, you now change the subject and go on and argue about other things.
Fine I shall refute you once agian on all counts.
I am not "puffed up with your pious religiosity looking down your nose" as you put it.
The Lord Jesus told us to be humble and forgive and to love. But he also warned about the consequences of sin.
The consequences of sin is death.
Now dath is a very dangerous thing and so people need to be warned about it in no uncertain terms. There is no nice way to put it. In fact putting it in a nice way is a bad thing because people will then think that it is not so dangerous. So if I say it explicitly then it is only to warnr you all. Believe me I am not being arrogant here. If you can't take it then you all must be sissies and girly-men. And girly-men are no good against fanatic sucidal Islamic Terrorists.
You seem to be using that very tired old trick that the liberals use to justify their sins.
If you say to them that they are sinning then they False accuse those telling the TRUTH of being intolerant and abrasive and such nonsense.
TRUTH IS TRUTH.
IF you can't handle it then, well too bad.
Christians are not allowed to lie.
“This is not me saying, it is the Bible”.
and
“This is not me speaking, it is the Koran”
are not really the same. This is a FALSE ANALOGY.
The Bible tell us to tell the truth and warn people out of care and love. The Koran teaches terrorism and genocide.
How could you possibly think that the message of love (including the consequences of sin) in the Holy Bible and the hatred of Koran are qual. Your brain must really be fozen.
"superstitious"?
Look f.g. atheist are the most superstitious people in the world. I know about atheism and I know about my religion. I am a Christian by choice. Look you should look more closely into your atheist religion before you go around accusing others of supersitioun.
It is as much a matter of faith to believe in God than to not belive.
In fact you need LESS FAITH to believe in God (the Christian God that is) then to BELIVE IN NOTHING like the atheists do.
Do you know what you belive in f.g.?
I do.
And yes "this problem ourselves" but we have to solve it by returning to God in repentence. There is no other way.
"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth …" indeed.
But God loves you still. He doesn't want you to burn in hell. But God is not Allah and so he won't force you to return to him. The choice is yours.
But remember, it is never too late. God will always love you and accept you back whenvere you return to him.
If not then you will reap what you sow.
Come on f.g. warm your heart because it is frozen too. That's why you are so cold.
Jesus loves you.
Muslim jihadis assume we are afraid of death??
Not me. I only hope I could take some of them with me.
I'm comfortable with being a mere mortal, without any grandious fantasies of achieving immortality for whatever reason after death.
Enough of the fricking preaching already.
Well thanks Darius and Shiva and everyone for easing my mind about my son's laser pen. Interesting info. I knew it couldn't be a case of kids getting these things for Christmas. What sort of parent gives their kid a military or industrial grade laser anyway?
That official explanation is so annoying. Trying to downplay things.
The government official, who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity, said it was unclear whether this week's incidents were the result of "kids who got a laser light for Christmas" or whether there is "some deliberate attempt to target aircraft."
Umm...(sarcasm on) yeah, I bought my son one of those laser lights for Christmas and taught him how to aim it an an aircraft. LORD ALMIGHTY, WHAT THE HECK ARE WE THINKING? I don't think they sell these lasers at toys R us.
Maybe "madrassas are us" Or "muslims R us" Or "Mosques R us". When will we do something about this? Unbelievable!
Unfortunatley it will take another attack inside the US before we can truly take action.
shiva (http://profile.typekey.com/latifah) wrote here (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63210) many FALSE accusations agianst me. So let me reply to those accusations here.
1. "f.g. We have trolls on the left,and now Orcs on the right,"
Just an insult. shiva was not making any points so there is nothing to respond to here. However, be assured that I am no "Orc". Read the articles that I have posted in full to see that.
2.
"Miss-Informed Christian
“Worship my god or die!”"
A (deliberate?) mischaracterization of what I wrote. I don't think that even you honestly believe that that was what I meant.
Nevertheless I have made replies to such spurious and disingenuous libel claims against me.
Read my replies at the following links
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63220
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63248
or simply scroll up here in this message thread.
3.
"You made the same mistake as naseem ,you googled Shiva then settled for the first thing you hit on"
What is your point? So what if I did? Sometimes you strike gold on your first try. Regardless of how you struck it, it is gold nevertheless.
So even if I did what you say and got my material, it still doesn't disprove my argument.
My argument was that "shiva" is the Hindu god of destruction, who is a behading, perverted, killer of innocent people terrorist comparable to Allah.
You made no reply to that argument. You don't even deny it. All you did was made irrelevant and false claims about how I got my information.
For your information, I can not remember exactly how I got that information but I am quite sure that it was not the first thing that came up.
In fact I think I went to the wikipedia first before searching on goole.
And at google shiva was not the first thing that I searched for.
I serched for an information site, so I can search for shiva there.
Only later did I searched for shiva on goole but I did not use any of the materials that I found on shiva there on that ocassion.
4.
"Siva, a Slavic goddess. Her name means "living, being, existing." She is is also known as Siwa, pronounced "sheeva" in modern Polish; she was worshipped in Poland, Czechoslavakia, East Germany. Also known as Russian Zhiva/Z'iva, Polabi Zhywie and Slovak Zivena. Even other forms of her name are Sivve, Shiwa, Sieba, Syeba, Siba and Dsiva . With regards to the etymology of her name, “some scholars associate the name with Dlugosz’s Zywye, others with the Indian SHIWA, [sic] god of life, still others with SIVA, 'grey'”. ""
Siva, Siwa or Zulu or Zebra or ....
Once again what is your point? All this is irrelevant. I don't care about what Siva and Siwa and so on are. I was talking about Shiva, the Hindu god of destruction.
I was dimly aware of all those other things that you talked about already but I did not bother looking those up, because I was looking for the Hindu terrorist god (more like a demon) of destruction called Shiva, since you sounded a lot like it on that occasion when you were making intolerant remarks again Catherine.
5.
"Shiva, "Auspicious" Hindu god; third member of the Hindu triad with Brahma and Vishnu. He is aso known as Ardhanarishvara, "Androgynous Lord", who is half-Shiva, half-female/half-shakti.
Shiva is known to have many forms,one of which is Nataraj,the king of dance.It is in this form that
Shiva/Nataraja crushes Apasmara Purusha [read Naseem]the demon of igorance,by dancing all over him."
I am kind of aware of some of these. Most of these things were mentioned in the articles that I provided with links to. I ignored them because they were not relevant to my argument.
6.
"This is the summary of the teachings of Shiva/Siva
Be kind. Be compassionate. Be honest. Be sincere. Be truthful. Be bold. Be pure. Be wise. Be virtuous. Enquire: 'who am I'? Know thy-Self and be free."
This sounds like the "there is no compulsion in religion" and "Islam is the religion of peace" taqiyya only not as good.
I must admit that the muhammadeans make better apologies of their cult than you do of what seems like Hindutva Fascism.
Sure Shiva might teach those but he did those things that I talked about earlier. You seem just like the Muhammadeans trying to cover the jihad terror verses with other verse in the koran.
I hope you are not a racist Hindu, shiva (if you are a Hindu at all).
Here are some links about the dangers of Hindu fascism.
http://www.secularindia.com/98new.htm
http://geocities.com/indianfascism/fascism/myths_ancient_history.htm
I hope that your bringing up the supposedly related Polish, German and so on Shiva is not liked to the Aryan arctic homeland racist ideology. Read the links above.
Finally one more thing about Shiva the Hindu god of destruction. Not talking about the rest.
http://www.viperalley.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/11346/sort/1/size/medium/cat/all/page/
"I Am Become Death, Destroyer Of Worlds."
From the Hindu God of death Shiva in the Baghavad Gita. Quoted by J. Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the power of his creation at the Trinity site, 1945.
"his creation" was the nuclear bomb.
Death & destruction= The 'religion of peace'!
We invented modern airtravel, they are hellbent in bringing them down. We invented modern architecture that allows us to built magnificent tall structures and they want to blow them up or fly airplanes into them....
We invented modern medicine, they bring back anthrax and ricine to poison us.....
Vermin!
Someone at the FBI needs to start learning about laser quided MANPADS
http://www.ploughshares.ca/CONTENT/MONITOR/mons04e.html
The Feds are combing looking for the source of the laser and I bet they find it.
OT,
......UNITED STATES: $35 million and 12 vessels to region.
Posted by: shiva [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 30, 2004 03:10 PM
A drop in the bucket I heard a liberal say. No doubt the US gift will get much larger.The liberals and democrats will badger the administation with guilt trips and insist on how we should lead the world and "prove" to muslims and the rest of the world that we are so very compassionate. The only way to do this is to give give give the taxpayers money away. Then in 4 years they will scream about how the adminstration is so much in debt due to Bush's spending policies. Hypocrits.
The truth is we could give 100 Trillion dollars in aid to Asia and the muslims would still hate us and ask why we didn't give them 101 Trillion dollars.
The muslims would complain if we hung them with a new rope.
The rest of the world would sneer and say look at how America thinks they are so great, always giving more than everyone else, always having to be the most generous, patui on Americans.
Stop getting involved in other countries affairs the world demands. Nobody asked you to stick you nose in. Why is it then that the world expects us to help the tsuanmi victims, wouldn't that be sticking our noses in other countries affairs? Or does not getting involved only apply when ousting killer dictators. The world has no problems taking our US Dollars and manpower and medicines etc etc etc etc but bring in some guns and troops to stop inncocents from evil killers that's to much, thats wrong, That's American aggression, that's sticking you nose in.
This may be offensive to some and is not meant for everyone in Europe just the Timbo types. The best of European stock has already made the trip to America long ago. The remnants of Americas European culture remaining in EU has let it decline to a point that is simply unimagnable.The culture that Europeans think is so great and so much more advanced, and cultured than America is confined to museums and it's symbolized in architecture but in real daily life it's circling the drain. What little culture remains is suffocating from apathy and liberal weakness.
Don't get me wrong I think Europes a great place to go party and hang out get drunk and stoned and have fun sex but don't tell me that I should take note of a great culture. Those days are long gone.
I could be wrong and if I am it won't bother me to hear some EU person defend themself.
cross
Just seen on CNN live from Aceh,guess what could be heard,Imams callimg to prayer
Indonesia is the Fifth richest nation for natural resouces Yet they look to ALLAH and AMERICA to pull them out of the shit
The point I was trying to make is many of the nations hit by this disaster have be purchasing weapons,overlooking what they could have been doing with the money,
A Hawk Bomber is the same as fresh water for 1.5 million citizens
Shiva,
I can agree to that. These 3rd world countries really have no business buying up fighter aircraft even though I support free enterprise and think it's great for Americans to sell their products, these people don't need these fighter aircraft and they don't even get the really good stuff either, every plane they buy can easly be shot down by any number of American pilots in the planes that we don't let them have. Ha the jokes on them, fools.
The aircraft makers will bank big time selling parts in addition to the planes. Also, it keeps Americans employed producing the stuff. But I agree,what do these assholes need them for anyway, the US is there to save their ass every time. Dumbasses, that's right they should have spent their money not on war machines they don't need but on clean water and some damn warning system to tell them a wave is coming. Idiots.
cross
Don't get me wrong I think Europes a great place to go party and hang out get drunk and stoned and have fun sex
I Left Europe 12 years ago and I think S.E.asia is a better place to go party and hang out get drunk and stoned and have fun sex,and the weather is better
Shiva, you fascinate me
SHIVA, you have alot on your mind, just like Catherine. Face it , muslims are stronger because they are not afraid to die.
Posted by: juicealot at December 30, 2004 10:56 AM
ROTFL!!! ROTFL!!
YEA THAT IS WHY WE FOUND SADDAM IN A HOLE DON'T SHOOT I'M A COWARD!!
AND THAT IS WHY THE IRAQIS RUN LIKE COWARDS IN A FIGHT IF THEY AINT DOPED UP ON DRUGS??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to Crush ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
PS LETS US NOT FORGET THE OLYMPICS WHERE THE IRANIAN WOULD NOT FIGHT THE ISRAELI WHO WOULD HAVE KICKED HIS ASS ???
PSS LEAST WE FORGET??
http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.
ROTFL RUNNING FROM LITTLE OLD BUGS??
This laser thing smells like Islamic terrorism to me. Weren't
they trying to do something special for Christmas?
http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/1230/local/stories/02local.htm
A SkyWest pilot and co-pilot reported seeing two laser-like lights in the cockpit while trying to land Christmas night at the Medford airport, prompting an investigation by the FBI.
The pilots described the light as a laser that entered the cockpit from the chief officer’s window and did not move off the aircraft...
A bulletin issued Nov. 22 by the FBI and Department of Homeland Security warned police agencies nationwide that terrorist groups have shown an interest in using laser beams to bring down planes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/01/wlaser01.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/01/ixworld.html
Crews have reported two incidents in Colorado Springs and one each in Cleveland, Washington, Houston, Teterboro, New Jersey, and Medford, Oregon. All the planes landed safely.
"It's not some kid, it's too organised," said Paul Rancatore, the deputy chairman of the security committee for the Allied Pilots Association. Loren Thompson, who teaches military technology at Georgetown University in Washington DC, said: "What we're talking about is a fairly powerful visible light laser that has the ability to lock on to a fast-moving aircraft.
"That's not the sort of thing you pick up at a military surplus store," he added. "It sounds like an organised effort to cause airline accidents."
ONE incident would be suspicious enough, but seven?
Been traveling, just saw your reply Mr. Christian.
>Now you(BRAIN) frozen ghost (i.e. f.g.)
You need to work harder on your insults there fella.
>>First you falsely accused me of saying "“Worship my god or die!”"
>REPENT and return to the Lord JESUS or DIE
Same thing dingbat. Think about how your message will be “read” not how you are writing it.
>>"puffed up with your pious religiosity looking down your nose"
>If they win then they deserve to. If we perish then it is our just reward.
>Western civilisation has left God and for that it will be punished.
>It is written in the Bible. While it was Christian it prospered.
>Now that it no longer is, it will decay, collapse, be devoured,
>become extinct and be wiped out.
If this isn’t a pious Christian throwing a large helping of reproach I don’t know what is.
>Believe me I am not being arrogant here. If you can't take it then
> you all must be sissies and girly-men.
This is comical. A more obvious arrogant statement couldn’t be made. So you aren’t arrogant, but if we disagree with you we are sissie girly-men?
You sir, or whatever, are obviously swimming is self-delusion with about a zero percent self-awareness factor.
>Christians are not allowed to lie.
But being human beings, they obviously will and do.
>“This is not me saying, it is the Bible”.and
>“This is not me speaking, it is the Koran”
>are not really the same. This is a FALSE ANALOGY.
I never implied that the teaching or contents of the books were the same or even comparable in a scholarly sense. My meaning was simply this: to the unbeliever, battling books of ancient fiction mean little. If you can’t understand that … I don’t know what to say that isn’t terribly insulting.
>Look f.g. atheist are the most superstitious people in the world.
I am neither atheist nor superstitious. However, you sir, or whatever, are admittedly superstitious. Let’s examine the language:
Superstitious: adj : showing ignorance or the laws of nature and faith in magic or chance
n : an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear
Magic: of, or relating to, or invoking the supernatural
Supernatural: 1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world. 2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces. 3. Of or relating to a deity. 4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous. 5. Of or relating to the miraculous.
English is a bitch isn’t it?
>Do you know what you belive in f.g.?
>I do.
Yes I do. I’ve spent 40+ years on the subject. I have discovered, as perhaps you will at some point, that beliefs are mercurial and that it is ok to grow.
>Jesus loves you.
Oh, and how I love him. Jesus is perhaps one of the most inspiring, compassionate, and useful characters I have ever encountered. It broke my heart to realize that I had no more data or reason to believe in his existence than any other deity exposed by “holy men” around the world . Oh, I can give you accounts of seemingly miraculous events I have been party to or simply witnessed. Emotion and imagination are powerful things.
You know the account of how Jesus, seeking some respite from the crowd took some effort to get away only to be followed and surrounded once again. What was his first thought? He was concerned that they might be hungry and in need. This has caused me to cry more than once. I’m hardly a “sissy-boy” though and my heart is far from frozen.
Go preach on the sidewalk. This isn’t the place for it. Wise up.
f.g.
My brief replies to what f.g ( http://profile.typekey.com/frozenghost ) wrote here ( http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63618 )
It was no insult since I was merely making light fun. My intention was not to isult as you perhaps was. By the way my "insult" was better than yours.
In your own words "You need to work harder on your insults there fella."
I have thought that you would be intelligent enough to "read" it in the intended way and not in the far-fetched, ridiculous and disingenous way.
Yes, "throwing" "reproach" (warning) but not "puffed up with your pious religiosity looking down your nose" as you earlier alleged.
"a pious Christian" and "a large helping" are mere insults.
Sound very arrogant, what you said. I will ignore the insults (which by the way I think you need to work on to improve).
"if we disagree with you we are sissie girly-men?" Indeed so. I stand by my argument that "If you can't take it then you all must be sissies and girly-men." If you can't handle the truth then you are.
Yes Christians will and do lie sometimes but this Christian isn't lying right now. Keep to the subject. I never claimed that Christians never lie. All I said was that they are not supposedto lie like the Muslims and that I am not lying right now.
Your memory is failing you. Read this (what you wrote, http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004479.php#c63235)
"“This is not me saying, it is the Bible”.
What is the difference between you saying that and some Islamic nut saying, “This is not me speaking, it is the Koran”? Absolutely none."
Maybe you should, as in your own words "Think about how your message will be “read” not how you are writing it."
The Bible is not a fiction though you might believe it to be so. Fine if you do but it isn't.
Do you really think that it means little to you that Islam teaches Muslims to kill or enslave you because you are not a muslim while the Bible teaches love? You think that the difference between a book that tells people to kill you and a book that teaches people to love you is meaningless? You honestly don't care about the differences?
What are you? An agnost? Why don't you say what you believe in, like I do so we can see if you are superstitious or not? Scared are we? How typical of girly-men.
As for me, if you define belief in the supernatural, i.e God, as being superstitious then I sure am superstitious but my belief in GOd is not "an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear".
So what is wrong with being superstitious if rational beliefs are also superstitious beliefs? If being reasonable is superstitious then I have no problem with it. Its the dictionary's fault. Must be written by atheists. That's what it means for atheists. Those meanings are what atheists believe, not me. I would define it differently.
By the way there were lots of definitions of the word superstitious in your quote. Which one are we to choose?
I don't like using the "b" word because I am a Christian and because it is offensive to women.
As for English, it is not perfect. It could improve I guess.
I wonder what you believe in. Please tell me.
40 years, so what? Maybe you spent all those time going in the wrong direction? Maybe you spent 40 years doing the wrong thing and so came up with nothing. You know even if you spent eternity doing the something, if you aren't doing it right then you are never going to get it right.
As for beliefs being "mercurial", (by that if you mean changeable) it maybe so with you. It was with me but it no longer is since I found the truth of God in the Bible. Once you have found the truth you don't ever change.
Fist of all do not make false analogies. There is more evidence of the Lord Jesus Christ than other so called dieties.
You should also study science a bit more critically. You will be amazed how little "data or reason" scientists have for their theories.
You should try talking to a real sceptic. He or she will tell you that science is no different from religion when it comes to the basics.
There are always things that are beyond proof.
Precisely. "Emotion and imagination are powerful things."
So when atheist and people like you see a miracle their "Emotion and imagination" prevents them from admitting it. They deny miracles out of emotional reasons. Indeed emotions are a powerful things. It prevents people like you from seeing things as they really are (i.e. miracles as miracles).
By the way I am very sceptical of miracles since there are so many hoaxes set up by people to deceive. I do however believe in the miracles recorded in the Holy Bible.
How strange that you think that the difference between the Lord Jesus and some other people like Muhammad, who raped, tortured, pillaged and behaded scored of people and orderd his followers to follow his example are irrelevant.
Having said that I am pleased to hear you say that about my Lord Jesus. Why don't you have some faith and believe in him? Just because you can't prove it to you as conclusively as you would like doesn't mean that it isn't the case. Like the saying go "Lack of prove is no proof that something is or isn't." You got to have some faith but its not alot since there are so much evidence already. Maybe its your "Emotion and imagination" that is keeping you in the dark and from accepting the Lord Jesus.
Well glad to hear that. I hope it is true.
Thanks for your advice about the sidewalk but why not "preach" here as well? Its as good as on the sidewalk in a way.
What do you mean by "wise up"?
And once again (you know it already but)
Jesus loves you.
Sorry about the jokes ("insults").
I can't send emails to you unless you put me on your approved list or put me off the blocked list.
Informed Christian,
Sorry, I didn't realize I had all of yahoo.com blocked out. You're on the safe list now however. Please try again.
f.g.