Toronto Mosque Hailed as Flexible Model for Muslims in the West

Dead bodies?? Blood?? Najis??? Gee I think someone forgot to tell the Paleys, there are enough pics of them floating around playing with dead bloody body parts....uh oh allahs gonna be upset with them :)

Since Christians of both sexes have been praying together without any separation at all for two thousand years I think Muslims aren’t progressing very fast. It is only one mosque and there shouldn't be any separation between the sexes at all.

Is the Muslim cleric worried that the building will explode if men and women pray any closer together? Since this doesn't happen in churches the Muslim clerics should have learned this isn't a problem. But then again logic and equality between the sexes isn't prevailing here is it? That is the problem after all.

Segregation between men and women in prayer is not due to unfair discrimination but rather because people should not be distracted in prayer. There have been segregated churches and synagogues for centuries and anyone who has the chutzpa to deny that doesn't know his history.

Dang, man, I am in trouble. Ya see, the other day, after a romantic dinner, pork loins roasted to perfection, and a couple of bottles of champange, my wife and I, well, you know...it was that time of month, but I say, hell, ya gotta go with the flow, ya know what I mean brutha.

Then, well, you know, got up in the morning and went through my mornin' rituals, and, uh, I gotta tell ya, there was somethin' about that mornin', a satisfin' fifteen minutes or so. And, uh, then I went outside and wrestled with my dog, a German shep named Bud, who just luvs to lick my face and slobber like a hound.

And, then, had to get all dressed up for the funeral of my grandpa, open casket. I didn't know what to say to him so I just gave him a little kiss on the forehead and told him I loved him.

Then, me and my wife, we had a few beers and started gettin' all lovey dovey again.

I say it is life well lived. But then, I don't believe a word that dang thing that Ayatollah, who should-a got a part in that there Harry Potter flick, says or does. Nope, just don't sound like much of a life to me.

Two Points.

One, re the apparently wonderful news that female Muslims can now enter by the same entrance as male Muslims at the "Noor Cultural Centre" in Toronto:

The absurd enthusiasm of non-Muslims for those "reforms" which here and there consist of the amelioration, often so small as not to be worthy of notice, in the condition or treatment of Muslim women.

But that should not necessarily mean much to Infidels -- if there is no change, based on a firm recognition of how the canonical texts, if unchanged, make inevitable such a result, in the uncompromising hostility toward all Infidels.

Why should Infidels, women or men, be cheered to learn that women in pseudo-"secular" Ba'athist Iraq did not have to stay locked up, but that some could become just like Dr. Germ. Why should any Infidel welcome the terrorist Leila Khaled, a "liberated" Muslim woman? Is that, for Infidels, a desirable result?

Two: the list of what is "najis" is no theoretical list. One can find well into recent times records of "unclean" Jews (who, just like "unclean" Christians, were physically shunned by all good Shi'a in Iran), who were beaten -- even to death -- for the crime of happening to be out in the rain. (See Laurence Loeb's record of a year he spent in rural Iran). Azar Nafisi's "Reading Lolita in Teheran" briefly mentions a restaurant owned by an Armenian that bears a sign -- "Religious Minority" -- meant to warn good Muslims (Nafisi entered anyway, of course) that the restaurant was "najis" and should be avoided.

The presentation of Ali al-Sistani as a Great Man, and the Infidel's Hope, is silly. Compared to the Sunnis, compared even to the assorted Baghdaddian Vicars of Bray, from the talented and completely unstrustworthy Adnan Pachachi and company, al-Sistani is the American favorite and indeed, looks good. But only comparatively. Just as the Iraqis geneally are waiting for the Americans to keep pouring money into the country, and keep using up their own money and their own soldiers to rebuild the place ("Wake me when it's over" is the Iraqi attitude, part fatalism, part ineradicable hatred of the Infidels who "owe us all this" as a kind of disguised jizya -- the Infidels give, we Muslims take, and it can never be the other way, and all's right with the world, as long as they keep giving and we keep taking -- and then we will get rid of them, and our "gratitude" to them, and their "project to build a light unto the Muslim nations" in Iraq because "we all yearn so much for democracy, as people do all over the world" (does anyone believe this? anyone?) -- well, the Americans will go, and their expensive effort, which should have ended months ago, will be as one with Nineveh and Tyre.

Meanwhile, Al-Sistani waits, quietly, to take over the country. Why should he throw bombs? 65% of the population is Shi'a. He wants elections. Minority rights? Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

Al-Sistani looks over an aide, seemingly in wonder.

"What is this 'minority rights', this 'human rights'?" he asks. And the faintest smile can be seen fleetingly on his lips.

The change, allowing men and women to pray in the same is room, is a step, an experiment that is more cosmetic than substantive. This change is one of Muslim to Muslim.

I want to hear about changes regarding Muslim to non-Muslim; changes in attitude, deportment, and treatment. If they want to show real love, they will love their non-Muslim neighbors as they do each other. They will refute the parts of the Koran that demand violence against non-Muslims and demonstrate a willingness to cooperate and integrate into American society, and not expect that society conform and accommodate them.

Here are only a few "rules" to being a muslim. Wow. Pay careful attention to the section that deals with us 'infidels' and our children.

My question is, who in their right mind would sign up for this cult? I understand those who are born into it cannot leave due to the threat of death but any sane person who willingly cites the shahada (or whatever) and converts/"reverts" to this cult of death must be severely deranged.

I believe muslims spend way too much time with their stupid rules and regs to enjoy the life that GOD gave them, the free will that GOD gave them, the forgiveness that GOD gives them and the joy of life that GOD gives them. Allah is the devil. I'm convinced.

One more thing.... with all of the "najis" talk about blood spurting from major veins, where do muslims stand on the act of beheading? ::::shudder:::

"Najis Things"

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84. * The following ten things are essentially najis:

Urine
Faeces
Semen
Dead body
Blood
Dog
Pig
Kafir
Alcoholic liquors
The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat.

Urine and Faeces
85. * Urine and faeces of the following living beings are najis:

Human beings
Animals whose meat is haraam to eat, and whose blood gushes out forcefully when its large vein (jugular) is slit.

The excretion of those animals who are haraam to eat, but its blood does not gush forth forcefully when killed, like haraam fish, is Pak. Similarly, droppings of mosquito and flies are Pak. Of course, the urine of an animal whose meat is haraam, should be avoided as per obligatory precaution, even if its blood does not gush forth when killed.

86. The urine and droppings of those birds which are haraam to eat, is Pak, but it is better to avoid them.

87. * The urine and excretion of an animal who subsists on najasat, and of a goat who was nursed by a pig, and of a quadruped who has been defiled by a human being, are najis.

Semen
88. The semen of human beings, and of every animal whose blood gushes when its large vein (jugular) is cut, is najis.

Dead Body
89. The dead body of a human being is najis. Similarly the dead body of any animal whose blood gushes forth with force is najis, irrespective of whether it dies a natural death, or is killed in a manner other than that prescribed by Islam. As the blood o f a fish does not gush forth, its dead body is Pak, even if it dies in water.

90. Those parts of a dead body which do not contain life like, wool, hair, teeth, nails, bones and horns are Pak.

 91. If flesh, or any other part which contains life, is cut off from the body of a living human being, or a living animal whose blood gushes forth, it will be najis.

92. Small pieces of skin which peel off from the lips, or other parts of the body, are Pak.

93. * An egg from the body of a dead hen, is Pak, but its exterior must be washed.

94. If a lamb or a kid dies before it is able to graze, the rennet (cheese) found in its stomach is Pak, but its exterior should be washed with water.

95. The liquid medicines, perfumes, ghee, soap and wax polish which are imported, are Pak, if one is not sure of their being najis.

96. Fat, meat or hide of an animal, about which there is a probability that it may have been slaughtered according to the Islamic law, are Pak. However, if these things are obtained from a non-Muslim, or from a Muslim who himself obtained them from a non -Muslim, without investigating whether the animal was slaughtered according to Islamic law, it is haraam to eat that meat and fat, but namaz in that hide will be permissible. But, if these things are obtained from Muslim Bazaar, or a Muslim, and it is not known that he got them from a non-Muslim, or if it is known that he got from a non-Muslim but there is a great probability that he has investigated about it being slaughtered according to Shariah, then eating such meat and fat is permissible.

Blood

97. The blood of a human being, and of every animal whose blood gushes forth when its large vein is cut, is najis. The blood of an animal like a fish, or an insect like mosquito, is Pak because it does not gush forth..

98. * If an animal whose meat is halal to eat, is slaughtered in accordance with the method prescribed by Shariah, and enough blood flows out, the blood of which is still left in its body is Pak. However, the blood which goes back into the body of the a nimal due to breath, or because of its head having been at a higher level at the time of its slaughtering, is najis.

99. As a recommended precaution, one should refrain from eating an egg which has even the smallest amount of blood in it. However, if the blood is in the yolk (yellow potion) the albumen (white portion) will be Pak, as long as the skin over the yolk is not torn.

100. The blood which is sometimes seen while milking an animal, is najis, and makes the milk najis.

101. If the blood which comes from inside the teeth, vanishes as it gets mixed with the saliva, the saliva is Pak.

102. * If the blood which dries under the nail or skin, on account of being hurt, can no longer be called blood, it is Pak. But if it is blood and is seen as such, then it is najis. And if a hole appears in the nail or the skin, and if it is difficult t o remove the blood and to make it Pak for the purpose of Wudhu or Ghusl, then one should perform tayammum.

103. If a person cannot discern whether it is dried blood under the skin, or that the flesh has turned that way because of being hit, it is Pak.

104. * Even a small particle of blood falling in the food, while it is being boiled, will make the entire food together with its container najis, as per obligatory precaution, and boiling, heat, or fire does not make it Pak.

105. When a wound is healing, and pus forms around it, that substance is Pak if it is not known to have been mixed with blood.

Dogs and Pigs
106. The dogs and pigs which live on land are najis, and even their hair, bones, paws and nails, and every liquid substance of their body, is najis. However, sea dogs and pigs are Pak.

Kafir
107. * An infidel i.e. a person who does not believe in Allah and His Oneness, is najis. Similarly, Ghulat who believe in any of the holy twelve Imams as God, or that they are incarnations of God, and Khawarij and Nawasib who express enmity towards th e holy Imams, are also najis. And similar is the case of those who deny Prophethood, or any of the necessary laws of Islam, like, namaz and fasting, which are believed by the Muslims as a part of Islam, and which they also know as such.

As regards the people of the Book (i.e. the Jews and the Christians) who do not accept the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad bin Abdullah (Peace be upon him and his progeny), they are commonly considered najis, but it is not improbable that they are Pak. Ho wever, it is better to avoid them.

108. The entire body of a Kafir, including his hair and nails, and all liquid substances of his body, are najis.

109. * If the parents, paternal grandmother and paternal grandfather of a minor child are all kafir, that child is najis, except when he is intelligent enough, and professes Islam. When, even one person from his parents or grandparents is a Muslim, the child is Pak (The details will be explained in rule 217).

110. * A person about whom it is not known whether he is a Muslim or not, and if no signs exist to establish him as a Muslim, he will be considered Pak. But he will not have the privileges of a Muslim, like, he cannot marry a Muslim woman, nor can he be buried in a Muslim cemetery.

111. Any person who abuses any of the twelve holy Imams on account of enmity, is najis.

Alcoholic Liquor
112. * All Alcoholic liquors and beverages which intoxicate a person, are najis and on the basis of recommended precaution, everything which is originally liquid and intoxicates a person, is najis. Hence narcotics, like, opium and hemp, which are not li quid originally, are Pak, even when a liquid is added to them.

113. All kinds of industrial alcohol used for painting doors, windows, tables, chairs etc. are Pak.

114. If grapes or grape juice ferments by itself, or on being cooked, they are Pak, but it is haraam to eat or drink them.

115. If dates, currants and raisins, and their juice ferment, they are Pak and it is halal to eat them.

Beer (Fuqa')
116. * Beer, which is prepared from barley, and is called 'Ab-i-Jaw', is haraam, but there is Ishkal in it being najis. But barley water which is medically prepared, and is called 'Maush- Shaeer', is Pak.

Sweat of an Animal Who Persistently Eats Najasat
117. * The perspiration of a camel which eats najasat, and the perspiration of every animal which is habituated to eat najasat, is najis.

118. * The perspiration of a person who enters the state of Janabat by haraam act is Pak, but on the basis of recommended precaution, Namaz should not be offered with that sweat. Similarly sexual intercourse with the wife in her menses, knowingly , will be considered as Janabat by haraam act.

119. If a person has sexual intercourse with his wife at a time when it is forbidden, like, in the month of Ramadhan during fasting, his perspiration will not be classified with the perspiration of those who become Mujnib by haraam act.

120. If a person in Janabat by haraam act does tayammum instead of Ghusl, and perspires after performing tayammum, his perspiration will be governed by the same rules which applied to his perspiration before the tayammum.

121. If a person becomes Mujnib by haraam act, and then engages in lawful sexual intercourse with his wife, the recommended precaution for him is that he should not offer prayers with his perspiration. But if he has lawful sexual intercourse in th e first instance, and then commits the haraam act, his perspiration will not be treated as the perspiration of a person who has become Mujnib by haraam act.

Ways of Proving Najasat
122. * There are three ways of proving the najasat of anything:

One should be certain, or satisfied that something is najis. If one suspects that something may be najis, it is not necessary to avoid it. Accordingly, eating or drinking at stalls and guest houses where public goes to eat, and where people without scruples about najasat frequent, is allowed unless one knows that the food supplied is najis.
If a reliable person who possesses, controls or manages a thing, says that it is najis. For example, if the wife, or a servant, or a maid says that a particular utensil or any other object which she handles, is najis, it will be accepted as najis.
If two just persons testify that a certain thing is najis, provided that their testimony deals with the reason for najasat.

123. If a person does not know whether a thing is Pak or najis because of ignorance, for example, if he does not know whether the droppings of a rat is Pak or not, he should enquire from those who know. But, if he knows the rule, and doubts the nature of particular thing, like when he doubts whether a thing is blood or not, or if he does not know whether it is the blood of a mosquito or a human being, the thing is Pak, and it is not necessary to make investigation or enquiry about it. 124. A thing which was originally najis, and one doubts whether it has become Pak, will be considered as najis. Conversely, if a thing was originally Pak, and if one doubts whether it has become najis, it will be considered Pak. And it is not necessary t o ascertain, even if it is possible to do so.

125. If a person knows that out of the two vessels, or two dresses used by him, one has become najis, but cannot identify it, he should refrain from using both of them. But if he does not know whether it is his own dress, or the dress which is no longer possessed by him, or is the property of some other person, which has become najis, then it is not necessary for him to refrain from using his own dress.

How a Pak Thing Becomes Najis
126. * If a Pak thing touches a najis thing and if either or both of them are so wet that the wetness of one reaches the other, the Pak thing will become najis. Similarly, if the wetness of the thing which has become najis, touches a third thing, that t hird thing will also become najis. It is commonly held by the scholars, that a thing which has become najis transmits its najasat, but indefinite number of transmissions is improbable. In fact, after certain stage it is Pak. For example, if the right hand of a person becomes najis with urine, and then, while still wet, it touches his left hand, the left hand will also become najis. Now, if the left hand after having dried up, touches a wet cloth, that cloth will also become najis, but, if that cloth touc hes another wet thing, it cannot be said to be najis. In any case, if the wetness is so little, that it does not affect the other thing, then the Pak thing will not become najis, even if it had contacted the Najisul Ayn.

127. If a Pak thing touches a najis thing and one doubts whether either or both of them were wet or not, the Pak thing does not become najis.

128. * If there are two things and one does not know which of them is Pak, and which is najis, and later a damp Pak thing touches one of them, that thing does not become najis.

129. If the ground, cloth, or similar things are wet, then only that part will become najis where najasat reaches, and the remaining part will remain Pak. Same is the case with melon, cucumber etc.

130. When a syrup or ghee is in a fluid state, in a manner that if some quantity of it is removed, it does not leave an empty trace, the entire quantity will become najis immediately when even their slightest part becomes najis. But if it has solidified, and when some part of it is removed, a trace of emptiness is seen, then only that part will be najis which has come in contact with najasat, even if the empty trace gets filled up later. So, if the droppings of a rat fall on it, only that part will becom e najis on which the droppings have fallen, and the rest will remain Pak.

131. If a fly or an insect sits on wet, najis thing, and later sits on wet, Pak thing, the Pak thing will become najis, if one is sure that the insect was carrying najasat with it, and if one is not sure, then it remains Pak.

132. If a part of one's body which is perspiring becomes najis, all those parts to which the sweat reaches, will become najis. Where it does not reach will remain Pak.

133. * If there is blood in the phlegm, or substance which comes out of the nose or throat, the part with blood will be najis, and the remaining part will be Pak. Hence, if these substances come out of the mouth, or the nose, the part about which one is sure that najasat has reached, will be najis, and the part about which one is doubtful whether najasat has reached it or not, will be considered Pak.

134. * If an ewer or a vessel with a hole in its bottom, is placed on najis ground, and its water ceases to flow, allowing water to collect under it, till it is seen as one with the water inside the vessel, the water in the vessel will be najis. However , if the water inside the vessel continues to flow forcefully, it will not become najis.

135. If a thing enters the body reaching najasat, but has no trace of it when brought out of the body, it is Pak. Hence, if the apparatus of enema, or its water, enters one's rectum, or a needle or knife, or any other similar thing, is driven into the bo dy and has no trace of najasat when it is taken out later, it is not najis. Same is the case with sputum and mucus of the nose, if it contacts blood within the body, but does not have any trace of blood when it comes out of the body.

Rules Regarding Najasaat
136. To make the script and pages of holy Qur'an najis, and violate its sanctity, is undoubtedly haraam, and if it becomes najis, it should be made Pak immediately with water. In fact, as an obligatory precaution, it is haraam to make it najis even if no violation of sanctity is intended, and it is obligatory that it should be made Pak by washing it with water.

137. If the cover of the holy Qur'an becomes najis, causing its desecration, the cover should be made Pak by washing it with water.

138. * Placing the holy Qur'an on a Najisul Ayn, like, blood, or a dead body, even if it be dry, is haraam, if the intention is to profane it.

139. Writing the holy Qur'an with najis ink, even one letter of it, amounts to making it najis. And if written, it should be erased or washed off.

140. If giving the holy Qur'an to a non-believer involves its desecration, it is haraam to give it to him, and it is obligatory to take it back from him.

141. If a page from the holy Qur'an, or any sacred object like a paper on which the names of Almighty Allah or the Holy Prophet or the holy Imams are written, falls in a lavatory, it is obligatory to take it out and make it Pak with water, no matter what expenses it may entail. And, if it is not possible to take it out, the use of that lavatory should be discontinued till such time when one is certain that the page has dissolved and petered out. Similarly, if Turbatul Husayn (the sacred earth of Karbala, usually formed into a tablets to place one's forehead on, while offering prayers) falls into lavatory, and it is not possible to take it out, the lavatory should not be used until one becomes sure that it (Turbatul Husayn) has ceased to exist, and no tra ce of it is present there.

142. It is haraam to eat or drink or make others eat or drink something which has become najis. However, one may give such a thing to a child, or an insane person. And if a child or an insane person eats or drinks najis thing on his own accord, or makes food najis with his najis hands before consuming it, it is not necessary to stop him from doing so.

143. * To sell or lend a najis thing which can be made Pak, has no objection, but the buyer or the borrower must be told about it, particularly in the following two situations:

That if he is not informed, he might contravene the law of Shariah, like, if he wants to eat or drink it. Otherwise, it is not necessary to inform.
That the buyer or the borrower will pay heed to the advice. If one knows that it will have no effect, it will not be necessary to tell him.

144. If a person sees someone eat or drink something najis, or pray with a najis dress, it is not necessary to admonish him.

145. * If a place or carpet of a man's house is najis, and if he sees that the wet body or dress of his visitor will touch the najis thing, since it is he who is responsible, therefore he should inform the visitor, provided the two situations mentioned in rule 143 obtain.

146. * If the host comes to know during the meals, that the food is najis, he should inform the guests about it. But if one of the guests becomes aware of it, it is not necessary for him to inform others about it. However, if his dealings with the other guests are such, that he himself may become najis, or be involved in Najasat if they became najis, he should inform them.

147. * If a borrowed object becomes najis, the borrower must inform the owner, provided the situations mentioned in rule 143 is observed.

148. * If a child says that a thing is najis, or that he has washed and made it Pak, his word should not be accepted. But, if he is about to attain the age of puberty, and assures that he has washed and made it Pak, his word should be accepted if the t hing is normally in his charge, and if he is reliable.

Dang right! This ain't just throwin' pearls at swine. This is throwin' pearls to a sly, slinky, slithery, hyena-type son-um-bitch, who is sneakin' around your blind side, and when you ain't lookin' (and you won't be cause you can't see straight in the first place), he's gonna sink his stinkin' teeth straight into your backside.

Not only will it hurt, you're gonna be takin' shots in the belly for weeks until you get his saliva outta your system.

See?

Segregation between men and women in prayer is not due to unfair discrimination but rather because people should not be distracted in prayer. There have been segregated churches and synagogues for centuries and anyone who has the chutzpa to deny that doesn't know his history.

Posted by: Shukri at December 22, 2004 01:32 PM

Shukri.... Yes, in the 1800's there were some Churches in the USA that had two front entry doors, one for the women, and one for the men. Women sat on one side of the sanctuary and men sat on the other. However, this is now the year 2004. What century are you living in, dear?

Furthermore, the constant worry of muslim men of being "distracted" whether during his normal every day go-abouts, work, etc., and above all during a religious service, lends further credence to the fact that you folks (mainly your men) are so incredibly obsessed with sex that you can't even keep your minds off it in church. Geeze oh petes, you people are sick. Well, you come by it honestly through mohammed, who is a documented pedophile, epileptic schitzo that deceived billions. Can't say the Bible didn't warn us about ole mo.

I pray for your freedom and deliverance.

From an article by Andrew Bostom at Front Page Magazine about "najis" or "najas":

"The conception of najas or ritual uncleanliness of the non-Muslim has also been reaffirmed. Ayatollah Khomeini stated explicitly,
"Non-Muslims of any religion or creed are najas." The Iranian Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri further elaborated that a non-Muslim
(kafir's) impurity was, "a political order from Islam and must be adhered to by the followers of Islam, and the goal [was] to promote general hatred toward those who are outside Muslim circles." This "hatred" was to assure that Muslims would not succumb to corrupt,i.e., non-Islamic, thoughts.

Sanasarian provides a striking example of the practical impact of this renewed najas consciousness:

"In the case of the Coca-Cola plant, for example, the owner (an Armenian) fled the country, the factory was confiscated, and Armenian workers were fired. Several years later, the family members were allowed to oversee the daily operations of the plant, and Armenians were allowed to work at the clerical level; however, the production workers remained Muslim. Armenian workers were never rehired on the grounds that non-Muslims should not touch the bottles or their contents, which may be consumed by Muslims."

Shukri

Didn't ever say there was never any segregated churches and synagoges anywhere. Since segregation of the sexes during prayer isn't a christian religious commandment there have always been christian women and men praying together, though maybe not in every church throughout history I do admit. There are even pictures of women leading prayer sessions with men in the Roman catacombs.

What crappycock nonsense.

Where did Jesus ever say segregate men and women in prayer?

P.S. I also saw a program many years ago about womens role in the early christian communities and a picture of a woman leading a male and female prayer group (in am pretty sure it was the Roman catacombs, apologies if am wrong about the location but it was from that historical period) featured in it.

Then again the real issue here on this webpage is that the Toronto mosque in question is falling short of equality of the sexes. There is no practical reason why women and men can't pray together without any barrier/distance. They won't die and society won't come crashing down around them.

During Canada's Federal Election this past June
a Female Muslim for the NDP(left-wing socialists)
ran in the riding of our Capital City of Ottawa,she was on the evening News with other NDP
Candidates about to greet the newly Elected head of their Party and as the Leader got to her in the line-up she refused to shake his hand and left him red-faced since his Party claims to be the fighter for the oppressed and the underdogs.

BTW,her views on social justice and support for immigrants and child-care didn't net too many Arab or Immigrant-background votes,but the imfamous Carolyn Parrish that is a Bush-Basher and loves to do her Anti-American rants to her predominately Arab and Muslim riding,got a landslide win as a Liberal Christian Female.

When Muslims and Arabs don't want a Female to
head their riding and accept a Liberal USA bashers really speaks volumes about the future for Canada and now that Sharia-Law may be allowed
as part of avoiding possible terrorism acts in Canada from Islamists,I doubt this gain in Human-Rights for Females in Mosques will be short-lived.

In simple terms for muslim women:

As a female creation of the Almighty God, (who loves me because HE created me), I have the right to pray together with my husband without the fear of 'allah' crashing upon my head. I have the right to walk hand in hand with my husband at all times, in all places, in all circumstances, and at all costs. I have the right to walk through the front door of any mosque, church or synagogue together with my husband and worship together with my husband, because he is my equal in the eyes of God.

If I cannot stand next to, and PRAY with my own husband, side by side, sharing life's deepest burdens, its triumphs, worries, fears, dreams, happiness and thoughts of the future, what good would it be for me to take a husband? I guess if I were a muslim woman I'd just cook the rice, pump out the kids, and shut my mouth.

Do muslim women have any sense of pride? This canadian mosque's attempt at 'modernity' is weak at best. Congratulations muslim mosque in canada, you just crossed into the 19th century. Kudo's.... a/k/a "Allahclarkbar"

Just Linda

No, you got OBL's worst nightmare wrong. Here it is:

One Afghan mullah enters a mosque and sees the mullah reading--THE BIBLE!

1st Afghan Mullah: I hear you are a secret Christian!

2d Mullah: Yes, I am. For years now, I have been preaching to the mosque out of the Old and New Testament, which I am convinced are the true Word of God, rather than that nonsensical Qu'ran. If you are here to kill me, I am willing to die as witness to the grace of Jesus Christ!

1st mullah: God be praised, in Jesus' name, Amen! Thank goodness it's true! For so long, I thought I and three others were the only ones!

2d mullah: What? I thought my group of 20 mullahs were all that there were! God be praised!

Re women and men praying together, there are conservative and not-so-conservative Mennonite churches in which the men are on one side of the aisle, and women on the other. Yet while I am not a Mennonite, I have yet to meet someone born and bred in such a church whom I didn't like.

Orthodox Jewish synagogues are also sexually segregated, with the women in a loft.

The article on which this thread is based is exhibit A in the case that our MSM are utterly clueless when it comes to anyone's historical religion.

Just_Linda said:

Furthermore, the constant worry of muslim men of being "distracted" whether during his normal every day go-abouts, work, etc., and above all during a religious service, lends further credence to the fact that you folks (mainly your men) are so incredibly obsessed with sex that you can't even keep your minds off it in church.

It is decreed in the traditional Sacred Law of all three Abrahamic religions that men should be segregated from the women unless strictly necessary. This is to avoid temptation and preserve faith and family. Your ridicule does not make it less moral.

I pray for your freedom and deliverance.

I wonder when a praying person can be so insulting...

Just some info from the bible for anyone interested. If women and men praying together is good for the holy family it is good enough for us.

"Acts 1:14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers."

P.S. in checking my first post I realise I made the mistake of using literal language when I wanted to express my ideas as generalisations. My mistake. Need to stop posting these things at 2.20am in the morning.

Obl r us: I agree with you. I raised the Mennonites and Orthodox Jews simply to point out what a babbling irrelevence the seating or kneeling arrangements in places of worship are.

For all I know, the ladies in the Toronto mosque can now hear as well as the men that all Jews are dirty and all Christians polluted; and that suicide-bombing of kaffirs is the sure-fire indulgence. I hope it isn't the case, but...

But you do gotta admit Mennonites are generally nice people, no?

Perhaps the posters of my article can enlighten me on what questions I should have asked the officials at the Toronto mosque that would have satisfied those at Jihad Watch.

And yes - they did shake my hand.

- Ron Csillag
Religion News Service