Here is an illustration of Emanuele Ottolenghi's prediction that in Europe, "freedom will be curtailed to protect intolerant cultures and communities. Citizens will grow increasingly alienated from this state of affairs. They will vent their frustration by supporting extremist political groups, or by taking justice into their own hands and unleashing violence against the minorities they resent."
It's a vicious circle: the media and government elites in Europe have tagged any discussion of the presence of jihadist sentiments in European mosques as racist. This silences many decent people who might otherwise have spoken out, and leaves the field to ... actual racists such as the BNP. That in turn reinforces the caricature of the elites, and further chills rational debate.
From This Is South Wales, with thanks to Ali Dashti:
Racists have launched a vicious hate campaign in Swansea to protest against the opening of a new mosque. Thousands of leaflets have been pushed through letter boxes in the Sandfields area of the city to whip up anti-Muslim sentiment, it is claimed.The area has been targeted by doorstep campaigners from the British National Party because of plans to open a new mosque in St Helen's Road.
Activists from the party found out about the plan to convert the old St Andrews United Reformed Church from a leading Islamic website.
The building is currently derelict after it was gutted by arsonists two years ago. Conversion into a mosque would save it from being pulled down....
Unite spokesman Jane Richmond said today: "This is simply an attempt to persecute Muslims.
"We have seen precisely the same tactic before. There of course not a grain of truth in it.
"The conversion of a derelict church to a Mosque not only saves a building but keeps it for the use it was intended, that is as a place of worship.
"We will not let this attempt to scapegoat Muslims go unchallenged.
"We call on all those who wish to ensure that the BNP and others like them fail in their attempt to bring racism to Swansea to join us in this campaign."
Who set fire to the church in the first place? Go back and finish the job!
I have posted on this subject before. About how my late Mother joined an anti National Front demonstration in support of plans to convert a disused factory near our home into a Mosque. That she believed that all religions had a right to a place of worship and that a Mosque would coexist comfortably next to the church and synagogue of our Catholic and Jewish neighbours. In the same way as the Hindus who built their temple in a redundant church did.
And that now when I go to tend my parents grave I do so in the shadow of a huge sickly green dome and missile, in a town where black robed women discuss TV soaps through their veils and there is little left of the community of my childhood.
I hate the fact that after all my parents did to fight fascism, the blackshirts before the war, the Nazis during it, that I should find myself in agreement with the BNP. (At least on this one issue) I want to weep but I believe sense will prevail and I am encouraged by Sikh and black Christian colleagues. They are forthright and they do still command respect.
Granny Weatherwax
Sikhs, Hindus and black Christians feel the brunt of the rise in Islamic extremism in the UK. Sikh and Hindu chidren are suffering physical and verbal violence at the hands of young thugs from Islamic backgrounds both in the inner cities and at Universities and colleges. The abuse is offered in terms of religous hatred. Authorities and the media are blind to this, claiming Islamophobia at the mere mention of a pattern to this, and now Sikhs and Hindus are feeling the brunt of behaviour that accords with the violence and intimidation of fascist skinheads in the 1970's and 1980's.
In one noted incident, Sikhs in Derby were outraged when Muslims in the city handed out leaflets saying that Sikh and Hindu women were all to be considered as prostitutes and were to be targetted for conversion to Islam, Derby is a hotbed for this kind of activity.
Universities have become breeding grounds for Islamic extremism and Jews, Hindus and Sikhs are subject to regular intimidation on campuses across the UK. Once again, noting this is to have Islamophobia screamed in your face.
A few montsh ago the veteran black journalist and racial activist reported on how black Christian youth in towns in the Midlands are being beaten up with alarming regularity by Muslim youth. They suffer routine racist abuse and violence and are terrified to even walk the streets at night.
At best, raising these facts with either a liberal or a Muslim will result in abject hand wringing and a lecture on the tolerance of Islam, the glories of Islamic Spain, the frustrations of Palestine, and so on.
But one question remains unanswered. Why are Sikh, Hindu, Jewish, Chinese and Black youth not carrying our such vicious, violent and intimidatory attacks on other communities, but Pakistani Muslims are?
Granny Weatherwax, take comfort from your Sikh and black friends. They are living evidence that it is not bigotry to be concerened by the religious fanatacism and bigotry that exists in many Islamic communities across Britain. In fact, the non white non Muslim communities are amongst teh most concerened over these issues.
Correction:
The black journalist and race activist who made the programme is Darcus Howe.
Kaffir boy,
he sikhs give me some reassurance. Sikh history is inded a fascinating tale. Sikhism was founded as a martial hindu response to islamic invasions from west asia. In that sense Sikhism is intimately related to Hinduism.
Sikhism also has martial origins, much like probably islam itself does. Remember, the sikhs were Hindus who took top the sword to defend Hinduism from islamic depradations.
In an all out religious war, don't be surprised to find the sikhs fighting at the frontline on the side of free peoples.
Sikhs intimate relationship with Hindus is further confirmed by the Massacre of Sikhs by the Indian government, assassination of Hindu politicians (including Indira Gandhi) by Sikh extremists, and the fact that till now, the award for the worst act of aviation terrorism belongs to Sikhs who blew up a Canadian airplane a few years ago, killing 310 passengers.
Also, was it the Sikhs who employed suicide bombing for the first time, or was it the Tamils of India?
There is no doubt that the failure of the European center to intelligently address the problem of Islam, based on real and detailed knowlege, and not pious assurances, or what they would wish to believe, or evenings of Taqiyya-and-Tu-Quoque, the features of this belief-system which make the "integration" of Muslims in Europe a logical impossiblity, unless those Muslims cease to believe in Islam. There is not a single feature of Western civiliziation, of its art, of its science, of its emphasis on the individual and individual autonomy, and indivudal freedom of conscience, that is not contradicted by the tenets of the belief-system that is summed up in the word Islam. And whatever the latest version of the smokescreen may be -- you are Western and therefore an "Orientalist" and therefore part of the "colonialist" project or its "post-colonial aftermath" (Said and epigones), or "Islam is not monolithic" (which means don't you Infidels dare say anything at all, when of course, whatever one wishes to say about the various sects and sub-sects and the orthodoxy of Alawites, or Ahmaddis, however knowingly one wishes to allude to the Mu'tazilites etc. or the four schools of (Sunni) Muslim jurisprudence, the main point that should not be forgotten is this: when it comes to attitudes toward the Infidels, and toward the right and the necessity of ultimately subjugati-n all of them, whether through military force (qital, or combat) or other means, they must be offered only three possibilities: death, dhimmitude, or immediate conversion. And that can be said, accurately, of Sunni and Shia and Ibadi, and of all four schools of jurisprudence. And that is really the only thing that Infidels need to know.
This is what, in order to end the appeal of BNP (which is essentially appalling precisely in all the ways that it apes, if it does not direclty reflect, the empahsis on the collective of Islam, and appeals, in the first instance, to the same psychically and economically marginal souls who might otherwise become converted to Islam -- come to think of it, perhaps that does give the BNP, or LePen's party, a certain minimal value, in soaking up people who might otherwise become Muslims).
What one longs for is those who are not fools, and somehow have managed to enter into politics, to seize the issue, and to appeal above the heads of their appeasing, or confused, governments, to the peoples of Europe who are experiencing, and who cannot stand, what the large presence of Islam and of Muslims is doing to their own lives and countries, and still worse, threatening to do in the future, as it gains -- not moral or intellectual strength, but simply the force of ever-increasing numbers.
If one believes that in the end expulsions will be necessary, it has to be presented in the light of acceptable history. That acceptable history is not that of the BNP or LePen. It begins, in modern times, with Benes and Masaryk and the Czech government expelling, without anyone dropping a tear of regret or sympathy, the 3 million Sudeten Germans. Many were guilty of aiding and abetting Hitler -- not all, but many. And given what they had suffered, the Czechs were in no mood to take future chances. Now the problem is to make people aware that every part of their civilization is under steady assault -- in the schools, in the courts, in the universities, in the press, everywhere. There are attempts to silence programs (such as the attempt to prevent Sifaoui from broadcasting on Dec. 2 his program on Tariq Ramadan). There are murders of journalists (van Gogh) and political figures (Fortuyn). There are those who lose their jobs because of fears of offending Muslims (where is Will Cummins?). There is craven apology at every step (Blair calling up Muslim leaders to "apologize" for Charles Moore in The Telegraph -- what the hell does Blair, the much-overrated (in this country) Blair, think he is doing?)
Griffin is no help with any of this. Vote UKIP, or replace Howard and try to get someone sensible to head the Conservatives. Surely there is someone, somewhere. What about Charles Moore?
Can someone quickly tell me what an "Orientalist" is? I think i have an idea, but I hear Muslims constantly alluding to this when they argue in defence of their religion and I am not exactly sure I get their point.
We have to create a movement anti-mosques in the world, in my country in Seville, the socialist-communist city hall have let 6000 m2 of public town for the islamist and his islamic centre, and the people that signs against the mosque, are for mass media, "racist", our mass media in Spain are very sold. Greetings
ANDREW!
Andrew, an "Orientalist" is a so called form a racist who believes in the "inscrutable" or "barbarous" or "uniquely different" East, or non-Christian East...so if you discuss Islam as a frightening religion, you are being an orientalist, conjuring up images of Arab sheiks and Crusaders etc..
Get it? Term made popular by Edward Said
I agree with Michelle.. Muslims are compelled by their Koran to burn down or destroy the Holy Places of others. It would not shock anyone to find out that the Church fire/arson was committed by a muslim.
SeenathePersian
Tamil Tigers utilised suicide bombing in Sri Lanka. All you need to know about Sikhs is that the leader of India is a Sikh, and they have a noble and long standing anti Jihadi culture. What matters is the here and now, and Sikhs are victims of extremist Islamist violence just as Jews, Hindus, hell, just about everyone on Earth is a victim of Islamist thugs on the streets of Britain, Europe, America and so on. The coalition being put together against the Islamists is astonishing in its breadth and range.
And just for your information, the worst act of aviation terrorism was when 19 psychopaths flew their planes into the skyscrapers. Didnt they show that on the new in Tehran?
Hugh
((If one believes that in the end expulsions will be necessary, it has to be presented in the light of acceptable history))
How can we expel those Muslims who are born in Europe?
Hugh
[[There is craven apology at every step (Blair calling up Muslim leaders to "apologize" for Charles Moore in The Telegraph -- what the hell does Blair, the much-overrated (in this country) Blair, think he is doing?)]]
Do you have a reference or link to that, Hugh? If so, I am truly amazed.
Church= place of worship.
mosque =???
Torture chambers, weapon storage, hate sermon preaching, conspiring to blow up buildings, kill Jews, kill Infidels...
I say no worship of this kind!!!
BAN ISLAM AS A PERVERTED AND CRIMINAL CULT!
Curiously, the Germans did that successfully with 'The Church of Scientology'- much to the dismay of some human rights advocates and some civil libertarians. But nobody in that country seems to have the guts to take on the Muzzies. Seems that they all back off once the death threats and the demos come into play...
Kaffir boy:
Strip all muslims, native or foreigners of their citizenship, and next time it's the time for the haj, send them all to Saudi Arabia on a one way plane fare.
Guru Nanak, founder of Sikhism, was a pacifist. It was his followers who took up war because they kept getting slaughtered by the Moghuls for apostacy.
Reply to "Kaffir Boy" re Blair's phoning Muslim leaders:
My source is someone who lives in England. But I will double-check tomorrow, and if that source cannot confirm it, I will retract the statement at this thread. It does not seem implausible to me. However, it might well be that what the English source heard was that Blair had phoned to apologize, but perhaps it was about Griffin's taped six-month-old words. Look back here tomorrow.
I am interested that it would amaze you if Blair did such a thing. Do you think that is not in his line, given some of the nonsense he has consistently uttered about Islam? I understand that he is a giant compared to the crook Chirac, and compared to the ex-NUS President Jack Straw (google "Straw" and "Conor Cruise O'Brien" and "J. B. Kelly" to find Coughlin's article in The Telegraph published last year, on the subject of Straw's historical gaffes and gaps). But he refuses to get, or to admit if he does get, Islam. He need not be outspoken. He need only refrain from being an ass and a nincompoop -- and this he has not done. Gratitude for his sending troops (poorly-armed troops by the way-- the British armed services are not well-supplied) should not cause Americans to exaggerate Blair's virtues. His Middle East policy is bad; his domestic policy on Islam is bad.
Ibn Al-Rawandi, an ex-Muslim who lives in England, has written scathingly about Blair's remarks on Islam, but I can't remember where. Perhaps you can locate it.
The murder of the father of Guru Govind Singh, Teg Bahadur, who was put to death for refusing to convert to Islam also was, from his prison cell, accused of peeking into the zenana and said that he was looking in the direction of the sea, from which, he supposedly predicted to the Muslim ruler, the Europeans -- that is, the British-- would come. The Muslim record of atrocities against the Sikhs is a long one. In recent times, the Patna Conspiracy began as a Jihad declared by Indian Muslims against the Sikhs, and then became widened to take in more enemies.
Those Sikh turbans on many members of the staff at Heathrow are, along with the baby rivers glimpsed as the plane comes down, among the most comforting sights in England.
Hugh
My Sikh friend tells me of the many atrocities committed against the Sikhs by Jihadi invaders and the Mughals. Their founder, Guru Nanak, included some famous verses in their holy book, the Guru Garanth Sahib, about the invasion of India by Babar the founder of the Mughal dynasty. It stands as one of the most startling contemporaneous accounts of the Islamic crusade into India, and is bloodcurdling in its reportage and description of the cruelty and violence perpetrated against the hapless Punjabis. Pointedly, at one section in the verse, he criticises as cowards those Hindus who collaborated with the invader and converted to Islam to escape the wrath of the barbarian. Sikh history is extremely fascinating. This is a website set up to counteract Islamic prosletysation in England against Sikh youth, who are especially hated and targeted by Pakistani Muslims for historical reasons, as well as for the strength of character and culture of the Sikhs. It also provides good information on the Sikh faith. Worth a look, if only as evidence that the arrogance of Islamism is stepping on the toes not only of white people, but every religion and race it is coming into contact with in England.
http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/
It is sad that this has to be done, but Sikhs recognise a threat when they see it and don’t stand on political correctness. That is my impression of them as a people. When you learn about their history, you start to make connections, with the Copts, with the animists in Africa, with Zoroastrians, and you realise the nature, throughout history, of Islamic imperialism, and it makes clear the insipid mantra of Islam and their leftist apologists, that this is all about Zionism and AmeriKKKa. Bring the Copts, Sikhs, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Animists, Eastern Christians into the debate. The rest of the world can’t be wrong.
It is my impression that the clash between Indira Gandhi and the Sikhs in the 1980’s was a blip. Today a Sikh is the leader of one billion Hindus in India and the Army Chief of India, leading the fight against the Jihadis in Kashmir is also a Sikh. It has been my experience that they are amongst the most inoculated against dhimmi propaganda and white washing of history. Whenever a William Dalrymple comes along and talks about the glory of Islamic rule in India they can see through that because their whole history was one of struggle against its power.
Hugh, you must be familiar with the works of Anwar Shaikh? He is one of my favourite writers on Islam. He is British based too. I found his writing to be very clear and relentless in its exposing of the fallacies of Islam.
Hugh
I found theis article by Ibn al Rawandi on Tony Blair:
http://www.secularislam.org/articles/armageddon.htm
An example of a modern Sikh hero fighting from freedom from the Jihad:
http://www.sikhamerican.org/udaysingh/index.htm
Mr. Fitzgerald mentioned in one of his comments that Germans were expelled from the Sudetenland and in the context of the times, it was not considered unusual or extreme at all. The point was that in a sane world, the problem of unrestricted immigration into Europe would never have been allowed and expulsion may once again be the only alternative to a bloody war of civilizations.
It seems Malysia is not having any reservations at all about dealing with their indonesian migrant problem as the below article explains:
From the Jakarta post Online (link refreshes latest news, so this story drops off the main text block to the right margin, which is why I posted the entire text):
"New warning of rights abuses as Malaysia steps up deportations"
KUALA LUMPUR (AFP): A new warning of looming human rights abuses in Malaysia's major crackdown on illegal immigrants was issued Thursday as deportations by sea and air picked up pace.
An Indonesian navy ship took on 4,000 migrants at Port Klang near the capital Kuala Lumpur overnight, bringing the total number of illegal immigrants deported over the past six weeks to 134,665, government officials said.
The ship is to make two more trips before the end of an amnesty period on Dec. 31. The Indonesian air force has also deployed a Hercules C-130 to take workers fleeing threats of arrest, imprisonment and whipping if they do not leave.
Indonesians make up most of the estimated 1.2 million illegal workers drawn to Malaysia by jobs in construction, plantation work and services. Others are from the Philippines, India and Bangladesh.
Rights groups, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, have strongly criticized the government's plan to deploy half a million volunteer neighborhood security group members to help round up migrants who do not take advantage of the amnesty.
The volunteers will receive cash rewards for each migrant arrested, an economic incentive that Human Rights Watch worries could lead to "vigilantism".
On Thursday, a local organization promoting women's and migrant's rights, Tenaganita, warned that foreign girls trafficked into Malaysia for forced prostitution, as well as genuine refugees, could be swept up in the crackdown.
"The government, by not differentiating between the trafficked persons and those who consciously entered illegally, is promoting the crime of trafficking in human beings when it arrests the victims and not the traffickers," director Irene Fernandez said in a statement.
Tenaganita urged the United Nations Special Rapporteur for the Rights of Migrant Workers "to intervene on the forthcoming unjust crackdown on undocumented workers."
The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) office in Malaysia has already deployed mobile teams in an urgent effort to register refugees hiding in the jungles on the fringes of Malaysian cities where many work illegally. (**)
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detaillatestnews.asp?fileid=20041216143950&irec=3
PETER G
Thanks for the run down on "Orientalism". Basically then, this dated term was made popular by the notorious Edward Said as a rhetorical bludgeon to discredit those opinions considerd stereotypical and bigoted. Sort of like saying, we fear what we don't understand, "The exotic lands of the Orient/Arabia to the East, you misunderstand us because of your ignorance!"
I hope this is basically the correct understanding of the term as applied by Muslims.
Thank you.
Would YOU want a terrorist training camp next to your home? Because that's exactly what a mosque is; either they train Jihadis in hate (also known as "Islam") or in the methods of Jihad.
Boy, oh boy, ohboyohboyohboy!
There is SO MUCH FASCINATING MATERIAL for MOVIES in all this!
A lot of us know a bit about the story of el Cid, but how about a movie about Pelayo? How about one about the Sikhs? And I know it's not PC, but one about the life of Muhammad would be fascinating, and the controversy surrounding it would only be "good for the cause," so to speak.
A lot of folks denegrate the movies; they usually aren't very "classy," after all. However, they are ART, and the function of art is to bring into perceptual awareness the values that we all have, but that we can't perceive directly. Things like justice, kindness, fairness, etc.
Art is one of the most efficient methods of connecting facts to our emotions, and in that way, helping us to retain them. Once being exposed to some facts, and experiencing the appropriate emotions, many people will go on to study much more about a given subject.
Does anybody out there know of a Mel Gibson equivalent who might be interested in saving Western Civilization?
I can't decide who to condemn more; The BNP or the anti-racist group in Swansea. Don't the latter realsie that no such groups exist in Islamic countries?
As for the possibilty that tony Blair made some calls to apologise; I believe every word Hugh says.
Here in Canada, quite recently, our Prime Minister fired off an obsequious and hastily written apology to Québec's muslim community after they'd complained that Québec's immigration department was 'forcing' female muslim immigrants to remove their veils and niqabs ( face veil) when being photographed for I.D. purposes. I can only guess that Paul Martin thinks the raison d'être of an I.D. photo is to photograph an article of clothing. Well, that's what you end up doing.
I have been unable to reach, as I promised above I would, the informant in England who first alerted me (through a third party) that Blair had made this phone call. Forgive me for not being able to confirm it; if I do, I will repost on the subject of Blair.
In a posting above Kaffir Boy gives the link to an article, at Ibn Warraq's website, to Ibn Al Rawandi's article on Blair, which many might enjoy reading. He is not the Churchill some conservative commentators for the American press believe him to be.
Thanks Kaffir Boy, that site, Why I chose Sikhism, was very interesting. I feel heartened.