American Coptic Union: Jersey City’s Massacre Is A Message for All Americans

The Federal Government absolutely should be taking this case over. It's overwhelmingly apparent who commited these brutal murders.

It's time for the local, state, and federal government offices to stop pandering to, and protecting the Islamic sect inside our borders. If they want to play rough, they're certainly in the right country.

While I feel that the Government should be involved in this case, I also feel that activist Judges and those who the FBI agents report to will sweep this all under the carpet in order for the Islamic community to be safe from obliteration.

The article states,

"...thus we seek the support of Christian, Jewish, and Islamic organizations..."

Certainly, there will be support from Christian and Jewish organizations, but when will these good people learn and/or admit that they will get nothing but deflection from Islamic organizations?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jersey City Police weren't paid off by CAIR.

Yes, it has come to this. There will be more Muslim victims, and nothing will be done as their cases are swept under the rug and not properly investigated.

If this were a Muslim family, the press would be all over it like white on rice. Coverage would never end until the crime is solved.

That's a more than fair assessment. The Muslims are denying this vehemently, which tells me that they're hiding something. But, what else is new?

Did anyone else witness Mr. Awad make an ass of himself on O'Reilly last night?

I sure did notice. I wrote in to O'Reilly Factor demanding that Andrew Whitehead be a guest on his show. Nihad Awad is a terrorist thug who supports Hamas.

Also, when these murders first occurred, I sent an email to CNN.com asking why (forget the Islamic angle) there was no coverage concerning this mass murder.

They sent me a response email (a week later) with a link to a report of the near riot which occurred during the funeral.

There will be little or no coverage coming from liberal media sources.

Apologetics. Pandering. Tolerance.

That's the three key mantra's of today's liberal and biased press.

And! They had the gall to tell me to keep my browser pointed to CNN.com. What a joke of an organization they are.

Lobby officials here:

FBI FIELD DIVISION - NEW JERSEY

FBI Newark
http://newark.fbi.gov/

Special Agent in Charge:
Joseph Billy, Jr.

1 Gateway Center, 22nd Floor
Newark, NJ 07102-9889

fax: (973) 792-3035

HUDSON COUNTY PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE
http://www.hcpo.org/

Prosecutor: Edward J. De Fazio

595 Newark Avenue
Jersey City, NJ 07306

e-mail: hcpo@hcpo.org

There already is a reward offered for $500,000. By the Coptic Businessman's association.

The American Coptic Union is right.

The murder of this family is the opening bell. But I hesitate in being hopeful of the police (more so) or the FBI (little to none) to have the intestinal fortitude to pursue the religious angle of this crime.

Does anyone else find it disturbing that the person suspected of this is all ready out of the country? HELLO? ANYBODY LISTENING?

Are there any Muslims that aren't suffering from delusions of grandeur, a superiority complex or an attitude of entitlement that are sick and tired of these bastards impugning their religion and their people? SOB'S! They're laughing at our "all embracing" liberal western society for tip toeing around this threat to all that we cherish. We, through our relentless drive to be all inclusive have created an atmosphere where we are, including national agencies and law enforcement practically PARALYZED BY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!

Political correctness has become the La Brea Tar Pit of our survival, free expression and unconditional, un-negotiated truth!

We've created a effing monster ...

No muslims; No mosques. Deport & Demolish. islam Is no part of American tradition.

This is a heartfelt and authentic statement from the Copts. The misspellings and poor grammar only make their pain more more real.

May these heinous murders be solved and the perpetrators brought to American justice. My odds are 95% that these are Jihadist killings. Similar to the odds that the sky is purple tomorrow.

I have been following this tredegy for a few days now. It seems though that other than JW readers & a few associations nobody is paying that much attention.

Muslim or not, apathy is the real problem here. I still maintain that we have to wait for the authorities, there are stories of a fued that stretches back when these people were in Egypt.

So far anything is possible, but Only Allah (swt) is certain, nothing else.

Let's get John Walsh involved, air this barbaric crime on America's Most Wanted, and perhaps someone out there may have information on this crime. There should be a reward offered, say $500,000. Let's find these islamic bastards and bring them to justice.

Posted by: Ummagumma at January 26, 2005 01:23 PM

You get a Gold Star!!

This is the Best Idea and will get this in the Eyes of the American People and maybe help catch the MONSTERS??

This show is watched by millions and because the Children are involed it is up his ally??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sigh and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Courage to Stand Up and Fight this Evil Amen

I still maintain that we have to wait for the authorities, there are stories of a fued that stretches back when these people were in Egypt.

So far anything is possible, but Only Allah (swt) is certain, nothing else.
Posted by: Naseem at January 26, 2005 02:14 PM

Ya, well that's the problem with some of these brainless Muslim immigrants that infest America, they're too stupid to understand that they're not in their homeland anymore. And Allah (sht), Mohammad (sbuh), and these useless clerics and Imams do nothing to domesticate them.

If they can't adapt to Western society, they have no business being here, and shoudl row boat their asses back home. They are not, never have been, and never will be a part of the American "fabric" like the worms at CAIR have stated. Infiltrators with no manners and no sense.

Stop me if I'm wrong.

Mike,

Thanks for the contact information. I just sent off a letter to the FBI and an email to the Prosecutor.

Hope everybody does the same. This is too important.

Best to all,
Rebecca

Fear of being accused of Islamophobia--and just plain, naked fear, period--seems to be overriding a willingness to conduct an honest investigation. This should be a cautionary tale--and a wake-up call--for everyone who values the free exchange of ideas in a society that, in the name of not rocking the boat and confronting the enemies in our midst, seems to becoming less and less willing to tolerate such discourse.

Prickzilla wrote:
If they can't adapt to Western society, they have no business being here, and shoudl row boat their asses back home ... Stop me if I'm wrong.

No, keep going, you're right. You know, it takes either an amazing amount of gall or an incredible insensabilitly to come to the United States and think they're going transplant their society along with their possessions. People come over here to escape backward societies like that for Pete's sake.

Islam needs to be put down like a rabid dog.

f.g.

http://www.siteinstitute.org/bin/articles.cgi?ID=news63505&Category=news&Subcategory=0&Current=1
Judge Bars Terror Evidence Against Sheik
By William Glaberson
January 26, 2005
In an important victory for a Yemeni sheik charged with financing terrorism, a federal judge yesterday prevented prosecutors from introducing what they have described as vital evidence during their initial presentation to the jury.
The judge in federal court in Brooklyn, Sterling Johnson Jr., ruled that the prosecutors cannot display three items they have said are their only corroboration for secretly recorded conversations in which they say the sheik and an aide plotted to take money for terrorist organizations.
Source: http://http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/26/nyregion/26sheik.html?pagewanted=print&position=

F.G. that is not likly with people like this running the show??

Will we turn into this??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145393,00.html
Female Muslim Entertainer Faces Threats
Tuesday, January 25, 2005

LONDON — It's not as if her look or her act are that shocking, but her moves have brought the wrath of Islamic fundamentalists upon her.
Deepika Thathaal (search), or Deeyah, was born in Norway of mixed Asian roots. Her father got her into music and has supported her throughout her career. All was going well until she dared to show a little skin — and that’s when the threats started.
"I would get very abusive phone calls," she said. "I would get abused as I walked down the street. I would have people spit at me."
At a concert in Norway, she was attacked on stage by angry Muslim men who thought she was degrading their culture.
But Thathaal doesn't flaunt her heritage. She's just a European woman pursuing a pop music career — who also happens to be Muslim ().
Her experience is hardly unique among Muslim women living in the West, whose families moved in search of greater freedom and opportunity — only to find themselves still struggling for peace and security.
Click in the video box above to watch a report by FOX News' Amy Kellogg

you ask wher is the box have to go to the sight ??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Defeat ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Strength to Stand Up and Fight against this Evil Amen

This is the time for all good Americans to rally behind the persecuted Coptic Minority, who have been attacked by cowardly vicious islamic killers.
Remember Ellis Island when masses of persecututd pepoples kissed the ground of America and were welcomed and helped. Those brave peoples made America great DO not let those Muslim murderers drag it down to and destroy what you have built up.
It is a time for ordinary people to take over and act in the defence of their country. Forget your leaders, thay are too cowadly and too ready to make peace with a devil who will consume them in the end.
THe Scandal that allowed wahhabism to spread and infest the US was not created by ordinary people. it was the work of decades of corrupt , self interested politicians and cooperations , quite willing to sell their country down the river for cheap oil.

Comment worth repeating found at "New York Post: Egypt grudge eyed in killings" thread:

There is a real disconnect between the absence of forced entry and a vendetta theory. Requires that the victim was clueless of the vendetta.

New Jersey residents and others ought to petition the state's Attorney General for appointment of a special prosecutor not subject to the whimsy of Jersey City politics.

Posted by: Howard at January 26, 2005 02:22 PM

http://www.nj.gov/lps/index.html
Peter C. Harvey is the Attorney General

Way to go, Rebecca.

We can all start to help by contacting the FBI Field Division in Newark (see addresses above).
For those of us old enough to recall the Civil Rights Era of the Sixties, crimes such as these were generally handled by the FBI, since local law enforcement was often unduly influenced by local obstructionists impeding investigative efforts. Since this crime is taking on an international dimension, it further makes sense to contact federal law enforcement authorities, since local police are not going to be involved in an international crime and manhunt.

I urge you all to contact FBI Newark and demand that they investigate this hate crime.

It's hard to follow the troll's logic - where is this certainty of Allah? There's never been any evidence for him. Ever.

Geoff

Watch out, Naseem's lips are moving ...

"Muslim or not, apathy is the real problem here. I still maintain that we have to wait for the authorities, there are stories of a fued that stretches back when these people were in Egypt."

Definition of 'Feud':

Date: 15th century -- a mutual enmity or quarrel that is often prolonged or inveterate; especially : a lasting state of hostilities between families or clans marked by violent attacks for revenge...

The Armanious family was tortured and brutally murdered because of a feud?

What's perpetrated by pathologically arrogant, self important Muslims filled with grandiose fantasies of Khalifa, is oppressive dhimmitude, jizya and slaughter -- SLAUGHTER of the UNBELIEVER, Naseem. Not a feud ...

You call those who don't take a cup of water into the Sonoco restroom to wash their behind "filthy infidels" but give the silent nod to FGM, child RAPE, brutal theft of life and everything that lies between. You minimize, rationalize and justify the torture and suffering of all "Infidels." Blame it on the Jews if you can. But ONLY MUSLIMS can be discriminated against -- the rest of humanity isn't even deserving of an honorable mention!

Damn you and all your lying, taqiyah spewing degenerate monsters. You hear that sound? It's me spitting on your phony Islamic piety -- ptooie!!

http://www.aina.org/news/20050125152648.htm

Assyrian International News Agency
We Are Becoming Paralyzed to Do What Self-preservation Demands
Posted 01-25-2005

Radical Islam has shown that they are going to do in America to "infidels" what they do back home. Will the A.C.L.U., Human Rights Watch, and Center For Constitutional Rights attempt to thwart necessary police efforts by claiming it constitutes "racial profiling" and "group harassment"?

It appears that the binding and throat-slashing of an entire Christian family in Jersey City was a Koran-instructed " ritual murder" by American jihadists against someone who dared to express an opinion about the Koran unacceptable to home-grown Islamic cell-operatives here in New Jersey.

Hossan Armanious, a Coptic Christian, was threatened by participants in an internet chat room that if he continued to speak against Islamic practices: "We will hunt you down like a chicken and kill you." Radical Islam has shown that they are going to do here to "infidels" what they do back home.

Unlike other communities, the tight-knit Islamic neighborhood in New Jersey will probably not cough-up the perpetrators, so the police will have to embark on a comprehensive search within the community to find the murderers.

If the past is any guide, groups such as the A.C.L.U., Human Rights Watch, and Center For Constitutional Rights may attempt to thwart these necessary police efforts by claiming it constitutes "racial profiling" and "group harassment".

At every step in our battle to protect ourselves from jihadist terrorism these self-intoned "humanitarian" groups have done everything possible to block our efforts at protecting ourselves. Be it by railing against the Patriot Act, the war in Iraq, calling for the court-martial of our soldiers on the ground and charging them as war criminals, and setting up legal barriers to our interrogation of terrorist detainees in Guantanamo Bay. They have been partially successful -- even frightening the Bush administration -- due to our fear of being labeled " racist" or "indifferent to international and constitutional laws". Their accusations are false and based entirely on interpretations they invent so as to stymie our anti-terrorism efforts.

These non-governmental, unelected ad hoc organizations are making it impossible for law-enforcement to uncover the murderous schemes the jihadists have planned against our citizenry. The upshot is that a handful of self-appointed "moral police" are now controlling the destiny of 300 million Americans and putting us more at risk.

One of the great themes of the Bible is to preserve life: "Therefore shall you choose life". "Choosing" Life commends to the individual and society that significant measures be taken to protect citizens. The measures used thus far by our law-enforcement and military -- even the highly publicized ones -- fall far within the standards allowed under the rubric of self-defense and protection of life. Because of our timidity and lack of understanding of concrete verities, our society has allowed itself to be brainwashed into believing that 'sensitivity" is a greater imperative than protecting life -- even our own life.

Fanaticism is defined as being so attached and involved in one point as to be blind and indifferent to other countervailing needs and concerns. When will we, the American people, put a stop to this political-correct madness that values inane, warped liberal ideology over the physical survival of ourselves and children? When will we apprehend the Leftist ethos and agenda for what it truly is: national suicide. Who are these people that we need even listen to them?

What motivates these self-important, upper middle class "better than thou" fanatics? It certainly is not a deeper attachment to compassion given their ruthlessly noncompassionate drive to punish as a war criminal a frightened U.S .soldier who in self-defense shot a Najaf terrorist probably playing possum. The "understanding of the mitigating circumstances " they for decades demanded for hard-core criminals and terrorists is not offered by them when dealing with embattled U.S. soldiers on the fields of hell.

It certainly is not rooted in a greater regard for international law in light of their silence regarding the Castro atrocities and those endemic to Moslem societies. Who can give credence to "legal" judgments that in the same press-release juxtaposes the non-approved antics of a few individuals at Abu Ghraib with the prolonged, deliberate wholesale torture and ethnic cleansing of 70,000 at Darfur.

By now it should be obvious that the "humanitarian" groups are driven by an inner anti-Americanism, one that dislikes its own country as now constituted .In life, we generally excuse and provide justification for that and those we love while being critical of those and that which we dislike. Being that in most circumstances -- foreign and domestic -- this crowd is always there to blame and criticize America first while defending and finding rationales for terrorist and criminals, it is obvious where their sentiments and identification lie.

There is an old Talmudic observation that states: "Those who show compassion to perpetrators of evil will display indifference and cruelty to good people deserving compassion.". It is not merely a misdirection of energy but, as the Talmud confirms, a reflection of a core attitude that feels revulsion to the wholesome and hence an attraction to evil.

Many in the anti-American "civil liberties" brigade are graduates of schools and privileged communities that have spent the last forty years characterizing America and its people as the world's most racist, imperialistic, misogynist, and jingoistic . To a large extent, they have come to believe it! Thus their eagerness to impute unsavory "racist and illegal" motives to Americans wanting nothing more than to simply protect their children.

It is high-time Americans no longer be forced to "prove their innocence" to a group of people who themselves bear the sin of self-righteous bigotry against fellow citizens, let alone a sense of moral and intellectual superiority over we "cowboys". Why should self-respecting Americans feel answerable to a clique who admire "enlightened" Europeans more than fellow Americans and see themselves first and foremost as cosmopolitan internationalists.

Those faddists in most other parts of their life have, as expected, joined the anti-America chorus which is the fashion and rage in today's hot salons. Fortunately, most Americans prefer survival over avant garde acceptance. Truth be told, it is Peoria that is serious while Santa Monica remains frivolous, clinging to that sophomoric attitude that "Dissent" and "social activism" is virtuous only when directed at the Anglo-Saxon establishment -- even when that establishment is trying to save your hide and that of your children.

The most foolish politically-correct assertion today is that if we do anything to terrorist detainees short of Club Med treatment or if we undertake procedures that C.A.I.R (Council for American Islamic Relations) calls "offensive" than "we are no better than the terrorists". To equate emotional trivialities with brutal beheadings or self-defense to ideological genocide shows how far liberal thinking has strayed from classic moral understanding. Its moral relativism is simply nouveau paganism.

For some, the greater the evils committed in the name of Islam, greater the forbearance we are to show it. As the atrocities have become more barbaric , the more demands that we not show anger -- even though we have a right and duty to feel and show anger. The greater the impudence toward our ways, the more preferential treatment we offer. What a deal for the Islamicist! All this because of some insecure emotional need not to appear "racist".

Bottom line: We are becoming paralyzed to do that which self-preservation demands. We are afraid to do what is normal under these circumstances because of a social-identity sickness among the politically-correct who hold such sway in this country over what constitutes morality.

If we are to survive, we must first purge ourselves from this foolish yet destructive liberal political- correctness, as it is the rope being used to hang us. The first step is to ignore these groups, especially now that we know what are their true motivations. .

By Rabbi Aryeh Spero
JewishWorldReview.com

In case anyone is in any doubt what Jihad means, check out the horse's (camel's?)mouth:

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=10689&TagID=1

Muslim or not, apathy is the real problem here. I still maintain that we have to wait for the authorities, there are stories of a fued that stretches back when these people were in Egypt.

So far anything is possible, but Only Allah (swt) is certain, nothing else.

Posted by: Naseem

Appreciate your comment about the apathy and am familiar w/ you from other posts but with what little we know so far about this hate crime does it not seem to point in the sharia direction?

if their was a fued in Egypt are you suggesting it may have drifted here?
did the "old man in the mountains" send the ASHISHIN here from ALAMUT?

Please understand I am just trying to see with clear vision.

"Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principal. We have called by by different names brethern of the same principal".
Thomas Jefferson

Kameste says "Damn you and all your lying, taqiyah spewing degenerate monsters. You hear that sound? It's me spitting on your phony Islamic piety -- ptooie!!"

That's hardly fair...you are letting your emotions get the better of you. If you need action get the law onto it...if it's not enough get the law changed.

Before I came to JW I did not even know what "taqiyah" meant. You look at Islamic society from the outside....you need to really get in there and find out that Islamic society and people are good people.

There are extremists in all races & creeds...granted that you are seeing a lot of them being muslims but we are under enormous pressure right now ...from all quarters and for everything ...whether it's our fault or not.

Kameste ...keep your spit, you gonna need a lot of it yet.

Mr. Mike says "Make mine a Smith & Wesson 500, gentlemen. One shot's all I need..."

Another senseless rant...one shot to kill who exactly! Any muslims or is yourself that you are talking about?

Too many people getting carried away, I'm not in denial, yes it could be muslims who did this ...but in your eyes it is a foregone conclusion ...a bit like "string him up...just cause he looks bad!

Everyone:

Stop all this vigilante talk.

The purpose of Jihad Watch is to raise awareness and inspire action within the law to defend the rights and dignity of all.

Action within the law.

RS

"Too many people getting carried away, I'm not in denial, yes it could be muslims who did this ...but in your eyes it is a foregone conclusion ...a bit like "string him up...just cause he looks bad!" -- Naseem

No. Throw 'em in jail first. Then try 'em. Then string 'em up, or lethally inject, whichever's easier for the guv'mint.

Muslim or not, apathy is the real problem here. I still maintain that we have to wait for the authorities, there are stories of a feud that stretches back when these people were in Egypt.

You spaced out dunderhead. Who exactly are these people? You know who the Muslim killers are?

So far anything is possible, but Only Allah (swt) is certain, nothing else.
Posted by: Naseem 

Allah this and Allah that. What pious fraud you are. Same as your prophet with his hallucinatory "revelations"

"The purpose of Jihad Watch is to raise awareness and inspire action within the law to defend the rights and dignity of all.

Action within the law."

And if the law fails the citizenry? What happens then when good men do nothing? Do we lay out our necks like sheep waiting for halal slaughter, the very slaughter visited upon the Armanious family?

nasseeem is not in paki she is works for CAIR??

your buddy ??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050126-124104-6400r.htm
Britain reports high youth crime rate
London, England, Jan. 26 (UPI) -- British officials say one in four boys aged 14 to 17 has been classified as a serious or prolific criminal, the Telegraph reported Wednesday.
The Home Office's self-reporting survey, released Tuesday, found evidence of 1.7 million active teenage offenders and concluded that 25 percent of boys aged 14 to 17 were serious or prolific offenders.
To have qualified as a serious or prolific offender, those who replied to the survey had to admit to six or more minor crimes in the previous 12 months or to one crime from a list that included assault, theft or selling drugs.
"Too many young people are engaged in low level offenses," said Charles Clark, Home Office secretary. "We have to drive down the idea that crime is acceptable to even a small proportion of people in that age range."

MUSSI PROBLEM??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050125-070434-8461r.htm
Mexico struggles to make China a trade pal
By Eliza Barclay
UPI Correspondent
Mexico City, Mexico, Jan. 25 (UPI) -- Despite having lost many thousands of jobs to China, Mexico sought to boost trade, investment and technological exchanges with the Asian economic powerhouse during a three-day visit to Mexico by Vice President Zeng Qinghong. The meetings, which yielded several new trade agreements, proved fruitful for Mexico, but some experts say the economic cooperation is too little, too late.
Mexico and China's relationship grew rocky over the past several years with China's edging out Mexico as the number one exporter to the United States, and with the skyrocketing of Mexico's trade deficit with China.

Fox and Zeng also announced that China will be reviewing a proposal to import iron from Mexico and make use of Mexican mining expertise.

HMMM???

On Monday, Mexican President Vicente Fox and Zeng agreed that Mexico would begin to export avocados to China and the two signed a memorandum of understanding to assist Chinese tourists traveling in groups in Mexico.

SO THEY THEN CAN JUMP ON A PLANE AND GET INTO THE USA??

AND NASSEEM FOR YOU??

http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050126-090609-7615r.htm
Politics & Policies: Zarqawi's zeal
By Claude Salhani
UPI International Editor

The Jordanian-born leader of the Iraqi Sunni insurgency, the self-declared emir of the Iraqi revolt and al-Qaida's man in Iraq, issued a statement that borders on the absurd. If the voice on the tape is truly his, it purports to say: "We have declared a bitter war against the principle of democracy and all those who seek to enact it."

Are elections un-Islamic? And more pertinently why would Zarqawi be so vehemently opposed to the voting process?
Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations -- CAIR - addressed the first question. He told United Press International that in Islam the concept of "shura" is not incompatible with democracy. Shura is basically a decision making process that has existed in Islam since the time of the Prophet Mohammad.
"Obviously, anyone who says an elected government is not representative is against the concept of shura," said Hooper.

YEA THATS WHY WE HAVE SOOOO MANY COUNTRYS THAT ARE MULSUM ARE WHAT?? REPUBLICS?????

DOES THIS MEAN WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THEM IN FOR BEING PERSCUTED BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE FREEDOM??

WORKS FOR ME??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

Rick:

You ask: "And if the law fails the citizenry? What happens then when good men do nothing? Do we lay out our necks like sheep waiting for halal slaughter, the very slaughter visited upon the Armanious family?"

The law hasn't failed in this case -- yet. There are signs that it is failing, and there are several people working hard to make sure it doesn't.

I am among them.

I never said to do nothing.

RS

I think there is a line between self-defense and vigilante-ism. It is one thing to defend your life and not be meek when attacked; it is another to lash out at Muslims per se.
Of course, the internet is filled with this kind of hyperbole which is one reason that the FBI is slow to say that the online threats against the Armanious family were worth taking seriously. People say ridiculous things under cover of the web's anonymity.
Probably no one here intends to go string up the neighborhood Pakistani slurpee salesman, but you sounded like you are veering in that direction. It makes the site look bad, too, and lessens Robert's credibility.

Good post dennisw.

If the killers turn out to be muslim, I bet that muslims will start the following

1. Claim that this is not islam, islam is the RoP.

2. The killers are not true muslims. The koran prohibits taking innocent life

3. The killers are "deranged".

4. Muslims are being victimised and need protection.

Then with all dispatch the mayor and the Chief of police will visit the local mosque and offer muslims assurances of protection. The MSM would be there in force. Meanwhile, the true victims of this massacre will be consigned to the bin.

If the killers are not muslims, then #4 will still be used.

The MO though, looks decidedly muslim. It is like knee capping in Ireland - the logical suspects would be the IRA.

Since the slaughter of Theo Van Gogh in public by the "Pride of Islam" very few people want to tell the truth about the violence and misogynism
in the Quran,Muslims love to use the "Innocent until proven guilty" mantra but when confronted
with the truth about Muhammed's pedophilia and murders,Muslims deny that too.
If the murder was a family of four Muslims there would be demand for a massive Nation wide search and a reward for catching the killers.
The Canadian media has chosen to avoid reporting this and I believe it's from the ongoing Psy-ops
by CAIR and their ilk,but one independant Columnist said eh will research the event timeline and comment on the double standards used by hypersensitive Muslims and PC media outlets.

BTW,last March a Mosque was damaged by a small fire near the "Female only" enterance,Muslim Clerics instantly blamed it on white Christian that had too many beers and were racists.
To date not one person has been arrested and yet still the vandalism is blamed on Christians,this
blanket guilt foisted on non-Muslims is so typical for their campaign of "Victim Envy" to gain sympathy and get the Quran and Islam in schools to teach tolerance and fight racism.

Muslims are not a race,but it's obvious they don't mind profiling themselves as non-whites
and therefor qualify as a minority group protected
by the law.

"justamomof4": Good Call

If it was a vendetta:
First; a family enemy or a stranger would have shown at their doorstep, and I do not think Armanious would have opened the door for him/them.
Second; the avenging party will be announcing all over their town that now the score is even; I think we would have heard about that by now.
Third; normally it is “an eye for an eye” thing, Christians don’t believe in that.

I would not be surprised if the massacre was taped, and if it would be broadcasted later on the Internet.

***Coptic by Birth, American by the Grace of God***

That's hardly fair...you are letting your emotions get the better of you. If you need action get the law onto it...if it's not enough get the law changed.

Too many people getting carried away, I'm not in denial, yes it could be muslims who did this ...but in your eyes it is a foregone conclusion ...a bit like "string him up...just cause he looks bad!

Posted by: Naseem at January 26, 2005 05:10 PM

YEA KILLING AMERICAN CHRISTIAN CHILDREN HAS A WAY OF DOING THAT TO AMERICANS??

NASSEEM HEAR THIS??

sympathy?
Keep in mind that word sympathy is in the dictionary between the words SH_T and SYPHILIS!!!

BUT EARLIER YOU SAID NOBODY CARIED??

GUESS YOU WERE WRONG??

THE CONCLUSION IS NOT HARD TO REACH TODAY FOUND IN IRAQ MEN [BRAVE] WHO WERE FIGHTING THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST FOUND BOUND AND KILLED

YOU HAD BETTER RESEARCH WHAT YOU HAVE GOTTEN YOURSELF INTO??

CAUSE YOU MESSED WITH THE BIG BOYS NOW AND WE GOT BIG TOYS!!! AND LIKE TO USE THEM!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT AMEN

It's not important to me to know who killed the Armanious family. It doesn't matter to me greatly if the murderer/s is caught. As crime victims, the Copts are as dead as any other murder victims. They don't deserve any more out-pouring so grief than anyone esle murdered. They weren't friends of mine, andI didn't know them. My interest is not in those individuals, not in the individuals who killed them. The individuals are a police matter, not a matter that concerns me. Whether the killer/s is caught isn't important to me. What is important is that people are dead because Islam demands their deaths, and they are indeed dead now. Others will follow. Others will die because of Islam. The individuals who committed the murders are nothing to me. Islam is the issue that has my attention.

Islam is once again responsible for the murder of Christians. I don't care if the family died at the hands of space aliens. The point is that islam is responsible for the murder of Christians, whether this family or not. Moslems kill christians because Islam demands that Moslems kill Christians. Forget the Moslems and fight Islam itself. There will always be killers, whether they use the cover of Islam or not, but Islam creates murderers where otherwise people might not kill. It's not the man but the movement to stop.

What can you do to stop the movement of Islam that turns men into monsters who murder little girls in the bathroom? first, forget about waiting for a trial by jury to decide whether this is important in terms of the fight against Islam. everything is important in the fight against Islam. This isn't about objectivity and fair-play. this is a war, and part of that war is in propaganda and recruitment of followers and adherents. What point is there in waiting a year or two for a conviction of someone somewhere? One man or five men, who really cares? The point is Islam. The point is not some grubby little goofs with knives. the point is the whole of islam, the billion grubby little goofs with nuclear weapons and the urge to commit suicide when they kill us. Fight Islam.

What can you do? Go to church.

I'm not sure about those people who claim to love everyone. They've got to be pretty unfocused to start, and superficial likely doesn't cover it. I don't trust anyone who'd claim they love the Coptic family on principle. I would trust someone who said they have an affinity with the Copts as fellow Christians. I wouldn't have anything to do with Christians who'd claim the Copts have an unorthodox rite and will burn in Hell for it. Christians can unite with other Christians in spite of dogma. There is such a thing as Christian Brotherhood. A Christian might love everybody, but i suggest his first obligation is close to home, and fellow Christians somewhere down the road.

Your fellow Christians down the road are dead. Your friends might be next. It's legitimate and natural that Christians protect each other as co-religionists. You don't have to love them. All you have to do is respect the fact that those people were murdered for the same reason you would have been murdered if you were in their place. Your fellow Christians are dead because they have the same basic beliefs you have. They died in your place. You have a right to claim some concern.

What do you do? Go to church and demand that your fellow religionists get protection from Islam itself. Demand that the clergy make noise. Don't let Islam caim more Christian lives. you have a right to demand protection of Christians, and you have a duty to do so.

Go to your church and demand that your fellow Christians receive protection from Islam. Demand. Scream. Shout at people. You do not have to be reasonable. Demand. Demand. Demand protection from Isalm!

It's at the point now where Muslims can no longer hide behind their veneer of a peaceful Islam and a God-loving leader named Muhammed,someone should make a T-Shirt with Islam printed in bold lettering and each letter will be made from stacking the heads of the Islamists beheading,each letter could have blood drops falling from the bottom like candle wax does,then have a pool of blood below the word Islam.

There are enough headless corpses to spell Islam with their heads and since it's the truth I doubt Muslims can argue the T-Shirt is a lie about Islam and Muhammed.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

On the train accident in LA

Police and city officials said on Wednesday the 26-year-old man, whom they described as "deranged," watched the two trains smash into each other at high speed after leaving his Jeep Cherokee on the tracks.

Police and city officials said "Deranged". I'm getting a teeny bit susoicious.

Has been plastered all over Al BBC GITMO FOUR HAVE BEEN RELEASED WITHOUT CHARGE! Am not surprised, is anyone else...
Naseem shows courage in replying to our site - she is entitled to a hearing

SonofWalker, and what if you're not a christian or not religious?

Encourage immigration of Coptic Christians to the US. Replace Muslim immigrants to the US with Coptic Christians, prospective new American citizens who will not try to replace our Constitution with the Koran.

Same should go for Chaldeans, Assyrans, Syriacs, and any non-Muslims now living in Islamic lands. An immigration quota system, favoring these Christian and other non-Muslim groups over Muslims will provide us with desirable new citizens to balance the Islamic contingent which we have mistakenly allowed into our country.

Jihadwatch,
if the U.S. govt. had demonstrated the will to handle the Mexican border problem, vigilantes would not now be doing that job; the same reality will pertain to domestic terrorism.

Like you, i would be very pleased to see the govt. do the job.

Unlike you, i see no indication that they intend to.

DP111 scenario is the most likely, yet again.

Posted by: DP111 at January 26, 2005 06:36 PM

Good reason to !!

Remember??

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
The official national symbol of MEChA is an eagle holding a machete-like weapon and a stick of dynamite.
The acronym MEChA stands for "Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan." or "Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan."

MEChA is an Hispanic separatist organization that encourages anti-American activities and civil disobedience. The radical members of MEChA who refer to themselves as "Mechistas," romanticize Mexican claims to the "lost Territories" of the Southwestern United States -- a Chicano country called Aztlan. In its national constitution, MEChA calls for self-determination by its members to liberate Aztlan. MEChA's national constitution starts out: "Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán."
http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

WHAT IS RAZA

"La Raza" (The Race) is a broad term which refers to those whose ancestry is indigenous to the area of Mexico (or "Aztlan"). MEChA members refer to themselves as "La Raza" or "Raza," but the term itself is used to indicate camaraderie among those in different organizations with the same objectives. There are a number of organizations who consider themselves to be La Raza.

The most visible of these groups are MEChA, The Brown Berets de Aztlan, OLA (Organization for the Liberation of Aztlan), La Raza Unida Party, and the "Nation of Aztlan" to name a few. Although the activism of these organizations vary from somewhat radical to extremely radical, they share the same objectives, the "liberation of Aztlan." Each follows the Raza manifesto "El Plan de Aztlan (sometimes called "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan"). The Nation of Aztlan, tied to La Voz de Aztlan disseminates the exact same propaganda that MEChA spreads including antisemitic propaganda. Believers in the Aztlan legend insist upon the indivisibility of "La Raza" and their common goals, one of them being the need to abolish the border between the U.S. and Mexico. There is a myriad of Raza college newspaper. Some are El Popo, Aztlan News, Chispas, Gente de Aztlan (UCLA), Voz Fronteriza (U.C. San Diego), La Voz Mestiza (U.C. Irvine) and La Voz Berkeley. It is not uncommon for the writers of these publications to refer to the U.S., as "AmeriKKKa."
http://www.aztlan.net/nofa.htm

NATION OF AZTLAN
Ministry of Information

Los Angeles, Alta California

Estimada Raza de Aztlan and Beyond:
Ministry of Foreign Affairs
October 18, 2000
On the Palestinian-Jewish Issue
La Raza's struggle for the land and for political and economic self-determination is not different from the struggle of the Palestinian people in Zionist Israel. We live in Aztlan under Anglo domination as the Palestinians live under Jewish domination. La Raza as well as the Palestinians lost the land through military aggression and both people now live in segregated regions within the larger nation. The Palestinian people as well as La Raza provide the hard labor necessary to prop up the national economies. Both Raza children and Palestinian children are victims of educational discrimination. The Palestinians as well as La Raza are considered people of color. So who should we side with in the present struggle in the Middle East? Will it be with the Jewish Zionists or with Islam? It is no secret that the United States as a whole is siding with the Jews, but should we? It is also no secret that the Jewish Lobby in America now also dominate large parts of the U.S federal government. It is estimated that over 32% of the Clinton Administration is of Jewish descent. Many are top level Federal Officials and includes the Secretary of Defense as well as the Secretary of State. In fact, the Department of State is now pretty much entirely Jewish. Most of the foreign Ambassadors are Jewish. This trend was begun by Henry Kissinger who is a Jew. This is very surprising considering that Jews only make about 2% of the total US population. Making these statements is not anti-semitic. It is stating facts. We do not hate Jews. We respect the contributions that many Jews have made to world culture. However, we reject Zionist racist Jews like the war criminal Ariel Sharon and appeal to all good Jews to do the same.
Israel can now be considered to be the 51st state. U.S. taxpayers are now sending over 8 billion dollars each year in economic and military aid. The sophisticated military weaponry being utilized against defenseless Palestinians are gifts from Uncle Sam. In fact, Israel now has nuclear and biological weapons, thanks to the United States. Why is the US providing so much to Israel? Well the selection of Joseph Lieberman as Vice Presidential running mate for Al Gore should give a clue.
Another clue should be provided by how the Israeli Army atrocities unfolded in the US media. At first, none of the Palestinian children murders were being covered by ABC, NBC or CBS. Not until the French and Italian media started broadcasting pictures of dead Palestinian children was the US media forced to cover some of the Israeli atrocities. Politicians, including Hillary Clinton running for US Senate in New York need a friendly media to be able to win elections.
La Raza is a victim of the same political and economic forces that are oppressing the Palestinian people and other people of color around the world. We must awaken to this fact and understand the hidden strategies and tactics being utilized to subjugate our people in order to devise effective counter-measures to neutralize them.
Tezcatlipoca
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Nation of Aztlan

YES THIS SMELLS IF HE CHANGED HIS MIND WHY NOT JUST DRIVE OFF THE TRAKS??

AND OF COURSE OUR FBI THINKS THEY DON'T WORK TOGETHER??

THEY AINT DOING THEIR HOMEWORK??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DEFEAT ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT AMEN

PS
Sonofwalker
I agree but you have to remember there are others on this frount line too!!
Do not exclude those who fight against this Evil
What were you doing talking about this in a bar Told you to do the passing out at Churches and Jewish Temples then you go from there??

Mr. Spencer states,

"The purpose of Jihad Watch is to raise awareness and inspire action within the law to defend the rights and dignity of all."

Mr. Spencer,

I agree with your statement. Most want to inspire action within the law, most demand a defending of rights and the dignity of all.

There are those who would challenge our rights as Americans. There are those in positions of governmental power who would first,

Restrict our rights to freedom of speech,

And the obvious conclusion would be to restrict our rights to weaponry.

When the government allows hostility towards the common man by protecting criminality,

My response to Article I is to heavily back it up with my right to Article II.

If our government fails in this regard, then this is not a digression into vigilantism, but an American response to survival.

What I am seeing in the comments section on many websites is the equivalent of verbal lynchings of all Muslims. I have no more sympathy for all Muslims than I have for any other group. And yes, the image of the Muslim community based on events all around the world is pretty bad. If Muslims want to change that image, they will have to do it from inside the community. And yes, at this point I wouldn't suggest hiring Muslims for any sensitive government position. Any Muslim organization or individual that can be linked to terrorist activity or killings should be monitored and eventually prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

That being said, every Muslim is not a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. Some are very good and decent people. Some are probably turning over evidence to our government, but we are never going to find out their names as they are also afraid of the terrorists in their community.

If there appears to be a common weakness, it is the same weakness that appeared in the German Christian community which when puffed up with pride and a sense of self-righteousness allowed themselves to be used by occultic believing Nazis, not realizing that when the Nazis had killed off the Jews they were to be next.

Every argument being used against fundamentalist believing Muslims can be used against fundamentalist Chritians and Orthodox Jews by those who wish to destroy all three believing communities and who out of the chaos want to bring on their own occultic "spiritual" religion just as the Nazis planned.

All muslims aren't terrorists, but all muslims would approve the pulling of bikini ads from television wouldn't they?

"Stop me if I'm wrong.

--Prickzilla"

Stop. You're wrong and your bigoted,intemperate response to Naseem's sensible caution makes everyone who is concerned with the Islamist threat look like a hateful crank.

Welcome Naseem. Not everyone is such a "prick" here (though, sadly, such vitriol is not uncommon).

Any Muslim organization or individual that can be linked to terrorist activity or killings should be monitored and eventually prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Posted by: StopNewAge at January 26, 2005 07:36 PM

IF SOME ONE KILLS THEY SHOULD BE MONITORED??

I DON'T SEE JEWS OR CHRISTIANS GOING AROUND CUTTING OFF PEOPLES HEADS DO YOU??

That being said, every Muslim is not a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. Some are very good and decent people. Some are probably turning over evidence to our government, but we are never going to find out their names as they are also afraid of the terrorists in their community.

WOULD THAT BE YOUR CITY??
IF THEY ARE AFRAID TO TURN IN THE TERRORIST HOPE YOU DON'T GET KILLED BECAUSE OF THEIR FEAR??

FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE AND WHEN GOOD MEN DO NOTHING EVIL WILL PREVAIL??

WHAT OUR GRANDPARENTS DID IN WW2 WAS RIGHT AND WHO THEY COULD NOT TRUST?? AND THOSE WHO FOUGHT WITH THIS COUNTRY WERE WELCOMED BUT THEY HAD TO PROVE THEMSELVES NOT HIDE BEHIND A GROUP LIKE THE ACLU OR CAIR??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

justmomof4 - Thanks for the appropriate repeat.

Comment worth repeating found at "New York Post: Egypt grudge eyed in killings" thread

Ramses XII - Closer reading is in order.

"justamomof4": Good Call

Hmmm

If you are brought up Muslim it is not easy to just threw that identity away easily. Apostasy is met with the death penalty under Sharia law. And we know from the New Jersey murders - you can be in a free and democratic sountry and still be slaughtered like a chicken for being outspoken against the perils of Islam.

Let us take it that Muslims are not the problem. The supremacist ideology behind Islam is the problem.

Damn Ive spent ages writing and re-writing this thread so I can get post and not get misunderstood!!

StopNewAge,

I really think you need to take a little more in-depth look into the foundation of islam,,the koran by itself don't cut it. Also read the(inspired) contextualization and amplification that the Hadith, specifically the Sira(biography of mohammed) provides.

For instance:
Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”

Ok, to draw a parallel with WW2, if Germans were the problem then we would have obliterated Germany. Facism was the problem, more specifically the vitriol that Hitler epoused.

The German nation is not without guilt. They were silent, and far too many good men did nothing. But it was far more correct to target Hitler and the roots of Facism than to anilhiate the Germans.

Welcome Naseem. Not everyone is such a "prick" here (though, sadly, such vitriol is not uncommon).

Posted by: Hugh Bristic at January 26, 2005 07:59 PM

now who is calling the kettal black seams you have not been keeping up??

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16554
The Silent Muslim Majority IS the Problem
By Nonie Darwish
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 7, 2005
I am overwhelmed with sadness over the state of the Muslim world. I am looking at the photograph of an Iranian woman about to be stoned to death in Iran, buried to her waste in dirt to keep her from running away.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16565
Europe -- Thy Name Is Cowardice
By Matthias Dopfner
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 7, 2005
A few days ago Henryk M. Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe -- your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

http://www.commentary.org/article.asp?aid=11805031_1
The Islamization of Europe?
David Pryce-Jones
Only a few years ago, mass-murder attacks on the West in the name of Islam, like those of September 11, would have seemed like a thriller writer’s fantasy. Nor would anyone have imagined that a bombing by Islamists could swing a general election in a European country, that a Dutch movie-maker might be shot dead on the street for a film about the abuse of women in Islam, or that one might find oneself watching, on television, the beheading of Western hostages by men crying out Allahu Akhbar! over their savage deeds. Pakistan now has a nuclear bomb, and this weapon is widely described as an Islamic bomb. To judge by their pronouncements, the Islamist leaders of Iran can hardly wait to perfect and use their derivative of it.

SO UNLESS YOU ARE A MULSUM THIS IS WHAT NASSEEEM THINKS OF YOU??

There are two things here....where we are and where we will go to.
Today, It is important to keep a sense of perspective. If all muslims behaved like your model then there would be unlimited paranoi.
Of course the world is not perfect...but is it all the fault of the muslim...ofcourse not.
The infidel has every right to be comfortable and live in peace...and this must apply all over.
As for tomorrow, the muslim world recognises that Muhammed was a man of immense vision...a man of god....of Allah if you will...the muslim recognises this...and if his "polices" are watered down then ofcourse this will be resisted.
That Islam is going to have more & more influence in the world is true....and I have been saying it for a while here.
I have a vision of a USME (united states of the ME) but I think that Eurabia and Islamic States of America will come about first.
The Muslim will learn and adapt to/in the West first and then bring the global vision of a stable Islam to the ME.
This will be a mix of Sharia/democracy globally as the majority of people on Earth (Muslims) will demand it.
Everything thing else will have a lower priority.
Posted by: Naseem at January 17, 2005 11:56 AM

KEEP UP!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the Course to Victory Amen

StopNewAge:Every argument being used against fundamentalist believing Muslims can be used against fundamentalist Chritians and Orthodox Jews

Do I detect an assertion that all three fundamentalists, are equivalent?

freestar says,

"Ok, to draw a parallel with WW2,..."

There is NO parallel concerning NAZIism and Islam.

Germany's National Socialism was but moment, a fleeting in time...

Islam is a CONTINIUOUS intrusion and threat to the rest of mankind because it has somehow been accepted as a viable religion.

Religion? What a joke. There are the ignorant who have been indoctrinated from birth to Muhammad's vision, but there are the majority of the planet who have not.

Long live the majority. We will prevail.

Oh,by the way. There were plenty of supporters of Hitler who claimed they did'nt know what he did/was doing too. They also claimed they did not approve of the extermination plan.

Well is that so???
Well guess what?? In the adult world you damn well better KNOW what/who it is you are supporting. Ignorance is no excuse- any damn fool could have figured out what Hitler wanted-- he spelled it out in a book and speeches. Mohammed and his descendents did the same. End of story. The followers of islam have proven to be the most murderous fools in the history of man.

This case should be a cause celeb among conservative groups as many civil rights cases in the past have been for the left and the rest of us who were concerned. It doesn’t require an arrest and conviction before it rises to this level of importance – most civil rights cases became important immediately after the crime was committed.

This case transcends the personal loss – as horrifying and tragic as it was – to become an attack on all of us, our way of life, and the foundation of the free society we live in. A democracy’s viability requires the discussion and debate on every issue of societal important. To silence our fellow citizens in such a brutal manner makes us all deaf to the truth and fearful to speak on any issue. If we refuse to protect the individual who takes the initiative to speak out, we cease to be Americans.

Let’s keep the pressure on. But also remember to bring respect to the cause by speaking in a passionate but reasonable manner (unlike some on the left who will remain nameless). Talk to people you know and write, write, write.

Good work, people of JihadWatch, for taking the lead!

I would rather not confuse pathos with tragedy. the Armanious family deaths are a case of pathos. It is a pathetic event. It evokes pity. The fact that the family's fellow Christians would rather praise themselves to the stars for raising money for flood victims in South Asia rather than sponsor Christian immigrants under direct and immediate threat of violence and death at the hands of Islamic state-sponsored Moslem killers is neither pitiful nor tragic: It is disgusting. The tragedy is that the Christian world sits idly by and does nothing much for fellow Christians hounded to death by Islam. The self-congradulatory media exhibitions by Western clergy sponsoring ecumenical weekends to promote brotherly love with the religion of peace--well, cut my head off if I'm wrong here--that is bathos.

Whether we are Christians or not, religious or not, whether we are "right-wing religious bigots' or reasonable men and women who look to Socrates for guidance, whoever we are, not a one of us is an island entire of itself. Everyone of us is connected to the continent. Even for those of us who are not Christians the fact is that we should light a fire under those of us who are Christians until our Christian brothers and sisters either do something realistic, like scream in their churches till the world starts to move on Christians in Moslem captivity to save their fellows from slavery and death at the hands of Islam, or we should light that fire to heat the branding irons to mark those Christians who would do nothing to rescue their fellows.

What can every one of us do here rather than make idle threats against the strolling Sikh and the average Hindu or the Burmese Taoist on a bicycle? What can even the aheist do for Christians?

I suggest that we compile lists of stories and quotations concerning Islamic thoughts on and actions against Christians; that we organize that information into a hand-out that anyone here can download and reprint and pass out to those entering or leaving a church; and that even if we are Satan-worshippers we must talk to the clergy who have a duty to inform their parrishoners of the threats and violence and murder of Christians by Moslems. I suggest that we go to the Christian leaders in our communities and tell them that rather than inviting Moslem guest speakers to lie about Islam in church that the Christian leadership should take an honest stand in defence of fellow Christians in Islamic lands, and even in America! I suggest that even an atheist can do that.

We are seperated here by numerous differences. We will never agree on most things among ourselves, nor should we. Our purpose here is not to convert Naseem to Christianity or even to get Naseem to stop being a Moslem ideologue. Your purpose should not be to try to convince me that you have the slightest idea of 18th century German Romantic philosophy simply from having read a book by a man from talk radio. Your purpose and mine here is to fight Islam. we have that in commom, and nothing else really matters. We are not islands alone, but our connection to each other is as vast as continents. Every man's death diminishes me, some moreso than others. The closer I am to the Coptic family murdered in Jersy City the closer my obligation to focus on them rather than on another. Whether, then, we are Christians or not, our duty is to do our part at the furthest for all men, and at the closest for those who are in some way closely connected to us. Christians to Christians is close. Me to you is close. What can you do if you're not a Christian? Scream at the Christians until they stop their idiot posing with Moslem killers. Attend a meeting with every Christian leader you can find and demand that s/he make this issue of Islamic jihad an issue in the church. christians shouldn't need encouragemnet but obviously they do. Even an atheist can embarrass the Christian appeaser. If we have nothing else in common we have at least a common concern for those who are victims of Islam. Take that to church and put it in the hands of those coming and going.

Make the Christians scream. This is not right. You do not have to be polite about this. Christians are being murdered and it is not right. You should be enraged. Even atheists hate this. Where are the Christians? I want to hear Christians screaming.

Moe's Foe said :

Islam is a CONTINIUOUS intrusion and threat to the rest of mankind because it has somehow been accepted as a viable religion.

Religion? What a joke. There are the ignorant who have been indoctrinated from birth to Muhammad's vision, but there are the majority of the planet who have not.

Long live the majority. We will prevail.

I agree. But we have to use out intellect and courage at all times even when we really cant be arsed.

Simple rule to not get anyones back up = do not say Muslim when you mean Islam. Muslim denotes a person. Islam denotes something abstract, a non-human entity.

This was the responce from the Director of Northeast Intelligence Douglas J, Hagmann regarding my Email to him( below responce) on the ever growing concerns about what really happened in the viscous murders in this coptic family.

We have been investigating this - it DOES appear that this was
religiously motivated. We intend to be reporting our findings on this in
a big way in the shortly, but our time and budget is minimal and has
been greatly overtaxed lately.

Nonetheless, you will be seeing a lot about this shortly.

Douglas J. Hagmann
Director, Northeast Intelligence Network

Mackie wrote:

> Dear Mr, Hagmann and staff:
> January 26,2005
>
> Maybe this is out of your purview,but has there been any
> concerned investigation into the murders of the Anamious family who
> where Coptic Christains, outside of the ongoing police investigation
> that is proceeding?
>
> Many Christain Coptics in that community clearly believe that this
> was a terrorist attack by muslims who follow the militant tenants of
> Islam? There appears to be a growing outrage that this viscous
> incident is being ignored or played down by the media.
>
> Sincerely Mackie

OT but please go to www.unitedbritish.com.

That is the website of the United British Alliance. An anti-Islamic group that is NON-RACIST, and inclusive of EVERYONE who is opposed to Islamic fundamentalism.

Sonofwalker,
There are Christians screaming.And doing.
Not all, though. Many of them have been corrupted by leftism, for instance the ones who take the "palistinians" side against Israel. They have accepted moral/cultural relavitism,moral equivelency.
This is the true plague on us.
If I was a believer, the only conclusion I could come to is islam was inspired by Satan. But I'm not. Anymore.

SonOfWalker

Good post. A site that highlights the continuing tragedy of Christians in muslim nations is

http://www.barnabasfund.org/

The greatest crime of post WWII was the genocide of Christians and Animists in Sudan. There was of course the genocide in Cambodia. But the Sudan genocide was ignored by the Western media and governments for fear of offending muslims. The Price of PC was not just in verbal deception, but was paid by the millions that were killed in Sudan. That wilfull turning the eye from a continuing genocide, is what makes the Sudan genocide an accusation against us. Meanwhile I see no collective atonement from the muslim world for this genocide, as Germany made for the Holocaust. The reason the muslim world cannot, is because they cannot.

I have believe that we can save the Christians in muslim nations and save muslims from islam by rescuing Christians in muslim nations by allowing them to come to the West, instead of the steady flood of bogus muslim asylum seekers claiming persecutiuon in islamic nations.

A case in point is one lunatic islamic cleric, soon to be released from Belmarsh prison. He fled Saudi Arabia to Britain, and claimed asylum on the grounds of religious persecution in SA. Amazingly enough, we granted it to him. He and his large family are now living off the state.

freestar says,

"Islam denotes something abstract, a non-human entity."

Really? What Islam denotes to me is Muhammad's cult strangle-hold on the Arabic population.

His fantasy was/is perpetuated to the ignorant of the Arabic/Islamic invasion.

Cut to the chase? Muhammad is a fraud, completely and drastically, to the detriment of one billion + souls.

His Qur'an is false. Muhammad is false. Islam=subjugation. Muslim=Surrender to Muhammad's will.

NEVER.

Voltaire thanks for the link :)

Sincerely Mackie

Posted by: Mackie at January 26, 2005 08:39 PM

Good work and seams their money is low??

that is why their are not on top of this??

We have open the gates and let the MONSTERS in time to kill the MONSTERS and round them up if you aint with us you are againt us??

Do you really think Americans will give up Bikinis Beer and Wine??

SHORT SKIRTS WORTH FIGHTING FOR!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] to Defeat ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

A truly wonderful article by
Rabbi Aryeh Spero
thank you for posting this JUSTAMMO

What the Rabbi so well points out is the hijacking of morality amd its resultant perversion by the academic and extreme left.
Also the NGO's, academics, MSM, are not held accountable for their distortions and lies .
IN truth since thay have no responbilty, they should not expect to be even given any oxygen or credibilty for the corrupt moral statements they make.

I believe we have readers and contributors here from in or around Atlanta, Georgia. I believe there is a Coptic Orthodox church in Atlanta,ths Saint Mary Coptic Orthodox Church. Do we have a Georgian Christian willing to phone the church to ask for information on Coptic coditions in Atlanta? Will Protestant and Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians and Mormons and Quakers and others in Atlanta go to the Ste. Mary Church for a vigil on Sunday? Is there going to be a vigil of atheists and devil worshippers while the Christians stay home boning up on the peaceful aspects of the greatly misunderstood religion of peace? Will anyone call the Copts to see if they will have a vigil on Sunday in Atlanta. Do the Copts in Atlanta care? Do they know about this site? Do they know that we are upset that an American family was butchered in their home for being Christians? Is there a Georgian with a dime to make a phone call? Will there be a vigil? If not, will you stand alone? Will you phone the Coptic church in your area to ask if there is a vigil on Sunday outside? Will you go to your own church to demand a vigil? Georgians, are you there? Atheists, will you stand vigil for the Christians? Devil worshipers, are you going to stand out and be known as one who will not tolerate the murder of Christians simply because Islam demand it? Who will stand for the dead?

http://www.aina.org/news/20050122143531.htm

From AINA:

Federal Government Working in Coptic Family Murder Probe

Posted 01-22-2005 14:35:31 (GMT 1-22-2005 20:35:31)

The federal office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement has officers working on the case of the Jersey City family brutally slain in their Heights neighborhood home, said Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio.

A computer taken from the victims' home is also being examined for any information that might help with the investigation, the prosecutor said.

On Jan. 14, police found Hossam Armanious, 47, his wife, Amal Garas, 37, and their two daughters, Sylvia Armanious, 16, and Monica Armanious, 9, bound and gagged inside their Oakland Avenue house with their throats stabbed.

Investigators believe the family was killed two days before they were found.

DeFazio said Immigration and Customs is trying to determine if the family, who came to the United States from Egypt in 1997, had traveled internationally. The prosecutor also said officials are investigating the travel behaviors of others who may be connected with the case, but declined to provide any names.

DeFazio said it did not seem likely that the family had made any international trips.

Hossam Armanious worked as a banquet waiter at a Westin Hotel in Princeton. His wife worked for the U.S. Postal Service in Kearny as a mail handler. Sylvia attended Dickinson High School and Monica went to School 6.

Along with Immigration and Customs, DeFazio said his office, Jersey City police and the FBI are also at work on the case.

"It's an extraordinary case due to the viciousness of the attack on this family," the prosecutor said yesterday.

"We're hopeful that the killers will be brought to justice, but we all have to be - and know it's easy for us to say - patient and let the investigation take its course."

DeFazio said a variety of motives for the crime are being considered.

"Robbery could have been the primary motive, but we have not eliminated other possible motives, including that there could be a sectarian religious motivation," the prosecutor noted.

Some friends and family members of the victims have suggested the crime may have been prompted by an anti-Islamic remark made by Hossam Armanious, a Coptic Christian, in an Internet chat room on the Web site PalTalk.com.

Historically there have been tensions between Muslims and Copts in Egypt.

Following the remark, Armanious is reported to have received threats.

According to DeFazio, the PalTalk angle has been investigated and work continues on the computer taken from the Armanious home. Only one computer was found in the house, DeFazio said.

The possibility of religion as a motive in the killings prompted violence to erupt last Monday during the funeral for the family when members of the Coptic Christian community blamed Muslims for the killings.

On Wednesday, Arab and Muslim leaders held a news conference on the Jersey City waterfront calling on members of the media and the public to refrain from inflaming religious tensions.

Coptics were noticeably absent from the event, but Fred Ayad, a deacon at the family's church, St. George and St. Shenouda, said Copts didn't attend because it was the day of their Epiphany celebration.

DeFazio asks anyone with information on the murder to call county homicide investigators at (201) 915-1345.

By Michaelangelo Conte
Jersey Journal

© 2005, Assyrian International News Agency. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004805.php#comments
HERE'S a challenge for swimwear designers. Britain's advertising watchdog last week banned a series of television commercials featuring bikini-clad women because they were offensive to Muslims.
WHERE IS AUSTIN POWERS WHEN YOU NEED HIM??
SHORT SKIRTS ON GALS IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR!!!
NOW WHO IS IT WHO WANTS TO TAKE YOUR FREEDOM JEWS IN SHORT SKIRTS OR CHRISTIANS IN SHORT SKIRTS OR MULSUMS IN BURKAS??
Part of the American tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER AMEN
PS
ROTFL
BUT THIS IS SO SAD ROTFL!!!
BUY A GUN AND LEARN TO SHOOT IT AND RELOAD!! IN A BIKINI!!

AND TO THINK THE BRITS HAD BALLS??

ROTFL

I agree with most of you that the most likely scenario is that Muslims committed this atrocity in the name of Allah! What I don't agree with you is that the FBI should take over the case.

The FBI is incredibly incompetent. The expertise of the FBI is all hype and no substance. With J.Edgar Hoover, the FBI specialized in examining politicians sex lives and the bureau has actually gone downhill since Hoover left. I think the FBI had 20 guys investigating Clinton's sex life.

But look at what those buffoons did with the flight school lead that they were given when Mousaoui was captured. The flight instructor leads FBI to a terrorist and what does FBI do? Absolutely nothing. They didn't want to offend Muslims.

Look at the Reinert murder investigations in Pennsylvania when the Pennsylvania State Police and not the FBI cracked the case. The FBI was too busy investigating the perpetrator's sex lives too be of much use in the murder investigation.

Anyway, let's see what the New Jersey State Police, the local police and the prosecutors in New Jersey can do before we call on the FBI.

Except Freestar, that muslims can't be likened to Germans. It's muslims who are the Nazi's.

Not all Germans were Nazi's because Germany is a country not a belief system. But muslims are united by a belief system. A belief system that is worse than Nazism.

So you can liken Arabs to Germans if you like, but as far as I'm concerned, muslims are the Nazis.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/d-d.natanson/devenus.htm
Ce qu'ils sont devenus :
le sort de 1.014 criminels nazis et de quelques complices
The destiny of 1014 nazi criminals and accomplices

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NO HISTROY??

ROTFL NO BIKINI IN ENGLAND I KNOW IT IS COLD THERE BUT COME ON??

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004713.php#comments
More like they are trying to get the Germans to support them because they have lost it and WOW those tourist dollars??
Remember We are putting the Squeeze on a lot of People!!
Seams that some Germans are remembering the heart ace that the mulsums have brought on them from 1888 to now??
remember??
http://notendur.centrum.is/~snorrigb/mufti5.htm
5. The Mufti and the Holocaust
It is a strange "coincidence" that the Germans decided the systematic destruction of European Jewry only two months after the Mufti's meeting with Hitler. Since 1939 the Nazi policy had been to use the Jews as slave labourers and isolate them in ghettos, but not to exterminate them. However, after his arrival the Nazi policy changed. I am certainly not saying the Mufti was participating to any major extent in the planning of the Final Solution. However, I want to point out that at this time he was having meetings with some of the top Nazi figures and might easily have taken some part in the planning. Still, whatever the part the Mufti played in the Holocaust, one thing is almost certain, he knew about it from the beginning and approved.
In 1941 the Mufti's delegate proposed a revised version of their former draft of an Axis-Arab treaty. According to captured documents the Mufti had just one thing in mind for the Yishuv Jewry:
Germany and Italy recognize the illegality of the Jewish National Home in Palestine. They recognize the right of Palestine and other Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements in Palestine and in other Arab countries as required by national interests, and in the same way as the Jewish question in the Axis lands is being solved.
What solution was the Mufti referring to? According to Melchers, he had only one: "The National Home must disappear and the Jews must get out... they may as well go to the Devil". Remember, as only those who are dead can go to the Devil, thus, it seems to me that he was planning an extermination, the same way as the Germans were doing in Europe. However, he was not content with just that measure, he had something "vaster" in mind. Bernard Lewis stated:
His objectives, as he explained on numerous occasions to German officials, were far-reaching. His immediate aim was to halt and terminate the Jewish settlement in Palestine. Beyond that, however, he aimed at much vaster purposes, conceived not so much in pan-Arab as in pan-Islamic terms, for a Holy War of Islam in alliance with Germany against World Jewry, to accomplish the Final Solution of the Jewish problem everywhere.
In June 1944, Dieter Wisliceny, Eichmann's deputy for Slovakia and Hungary, told Dr. Rudolf Kasztner in Budapest that he was convinced that the Mufti had
played a role in the decision to exterminate the European Jews... The importance of this role must not be disregarded ...The Mufti had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he was maintaining contact, above all to Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem.
In his conversation with Endre Steiner in Bratislava, Wisliceny said:
The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in execution of this plan...He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.

Wisliceny, who himself was a major war criminal and finally executed in 1948, repeated the Mufti's participation in the Holocaust at the Nuremberg trials in July 1946.
He testified that after the Mufti's arrival in Germany he had paid visit to Himmler and shortly afterwards (late in 1941 or early in 1942) had visited Eichmann in his Berlin office at Kürfurstrasse 116. According to Wisliceny, Eichmann told him that he had brought the Mufti to a special room where he showed him maps illustrating the distribution of the Jewish population in various European countries and delivered a detailed report on the solution of the Jewish problem in Europe. The Mufti seemed to have been much impressed.
It is beyond any doubt that the Mufti knew exactly what was going on in Poland. In a broadcast from Berlin on 21 September 1944 he said: "Is it not in your power, O Arabs, to repulse the Jews who number not more than eleven million?". It was a common knowledge that before 1939 the World Jewry numbered 17 million. This use of words, eleven million, could have meant that he knew precisely the number of Jews exterminated by the Germans, or he could be referring to the eleven millions European Jews the Nazis were going to annihilate, according to the Wannsee Conference. This would suggest that he knew the details of the Final Solution. It is one thing that strikes me as strange about the Wannsee Conference. It was due to start on 8 December 1941, but postponed until January 1942. Why? I can seriously imagine it might have had something to do with the Mufti's arrival at the end of November. The Germans might have wanted his support, his ideas or even his help in making effective plans. After all, he had been killing Jews for more than twenty years, he was the expert, so far. However, these thoughts are merely a Collingwoodian way of dealing with this question. Still, it is a strange coincidence that the Mufti was supposed to meet German high officials soon after his arrival, the documents show that there was no social visit on the agenda.
The records prove he was aware of the Final Solution at the early stage, but the question is, however, to what extent did he participate? If he was not involved in the making of the Final Solution, which could be doubted, at least he was effective in the execution. In 1945 the Allies captured some letters that enlightened the Mufti's efforts preventing a possible Jewish emigration from Europe to Palestine. He had no problems with the Germans, but their allies in the Balkans; Italy, Hungary, Rumania and Bulgaria were willing to give their Jews emigration visas. He did not like the thought of the Balkan Jewry immigrating to Palestine and complained strongly, both to the Germans, as well as directly to the Governments concerned. According to Wilhelm Melcher, a German official, at the Nuremberg court:

AND WE KNOW THE DEAL NOW THE MUSSIS WHO FOUGHT WITH THE GERMANS AND THE SHAME THAT CAME IN DEFEAT??
http://globalpolitician.com/articles.asp?ID=274&t=Nazi+Influence+on+the+Middle+East+During+WWII
The electoral college nominated three candidates for the position of the Mufti. Under the long-established law, the colonial power was to choose among the top three vote-getters. However, the preferred candidate of the Brits, Haj Amin al-Husseini, placed fourth, receiving only about 7% of the vote. To the local Islamic leaders (outside the Husseini clan), the young man’s lack of religious preparation and knowledge made him an unacceptable candidate to be the top religious leader in Jerusalem. All of the top three candidates were Nashashibi-sponsored, while the Husseini clan focused its energies on promoting Haj Amin. The British intervened and forced the most popular candidate, Sheikh Husam al-Din, to withdraw, thus pushing al-Husseini into third place. The young man without any religious training suddenly became the most powerful Islamic cleric in Jerusalem. [8]
A few months later, in December of 1921, the British administration established a Supreme Muslim Council with full control over the Waqf (religious trusts) and the Shariah (Muslim religious courts). Haj Amin al-Husseini was appointed President of the body. Within a year, the man who organized multiple massacres, became the leader of all the most important bodies in the colony: religious (as a Mufti), legal (Shariah) and financial (Waqf). A 1937 Royal Commission report noted al-Husseini had “no legal limitation to his power.” [9]
Controlling a spectacular sum of money and the right to appoint Palestinian Islamic preachers, al-Husseini built a “political machine” that brought the religious and political establishment under his domination. Through them, he was able to arouse religious fanaticism against Jews and the West.
His preachers urged their flock to “go out and murder the Jewish infidel in the name of the holy Koran,” constantly declaring that “he who kills a Jew is assured of a place in the next world.” [10]
Mufti hated Jews for the same reasons as Hasan al-Banna in Egypt. Jews, especially the arriving Zionist immigrants, brought a modern, Western/European way of life, a direct opposite of what the fundamentalists wanted. Just as Banna, Husseini felt personally threatened by Western culture. “The Jews have changed the life of Palestine in such a way that it must inevitably lead to the destruction of our race . . . . The Jewish girls who run around in shorts demoralize our youth by their mere presence.” [11]
The year 1922 brought the worst possible news to al-Husseini. The League of Nations recognized the land west of the Jordan river as the “Jewish National Home.” The British White Paper of 1922, divided Palestine with 77% to the east of the Jordan river given to Arabs, while the 23% to the west left for the Jewish people. Shortly thereafter, the League of Nations confirmed the division in its mandate system, urging Great Britain, as the Mandatory power, to “facilitate Jewish immigration,” as well as “close settlement of Jews on the land.” The League of Nations even mandated that no “territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power,” thus rejecting any Arab claims to what has since become known as Israel, West Bank and Gaza. Indeed, the Arab people are never even mentioned in the Mandate. [12]
Worse yet, al-Husseini did not even get the right to govern eastern Palestine, by then known as Transjordan. When the Hashemi clan lost control of Mecca and the rest of the Arabian peninsula, the colonial powers decided that the Hashemites deserved a “consolation prize.”
Sherif Hussein’s two sons were thus appointed Kings. Faisal became the King of Iraq, while Abdullah the ruler of Transjordan. The Hashemi clan originally fled from the Arabian peninsula to Cyprus, but then settled in Transjordan, leading the fight against the British. Making Abdullah the King of Transjordan satisfied the Hashemites after the embarrassing loss Mecca. [13]
But as far as al-Husseini was concerned, it wasn’t bad enough that he didn’t get a state, but his worst enemies in the Arab world – the Hashemites – were now ruling two countries (Transjordan and Iraq), while Zionists had their goal legitimized by the League of Nations. The Kings of Iraq and Transjordan – despite seeing their father backstabbed by the English – were moderates, friendly to the West and accepting of the Jewish state in the Middle East. As the world was split into fascist and democratic camps in the 1930’s and 1940’s, al-Husseini and Hassan al-Banna found themselves on the opposite side of the Hashemites.
The Mufti, who supported establishment of Greater Syria in what is now Israel, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, West Bank and Gaza, decided to focus his efforts on taking over Palestine and Transjordan, while undermining the British and the Hashemites in Iraq. Years later, UK’s Colonial Secretary Ormsby-Gore would report to the House of Lords: “The Mufti . . . is playing his own dynastic game, and that game undoubtedly is to become not merely the sovereign of Palestine, not merely to be crowned or uncrowned King of Palestine, but first head of Palestine, then Palestine and Transjordan combined, and then the whole of Syria, and, of course, in that position to be regarded as the leader of the Sunni world . . . . He is a man of quite unlimited political ambition. He was a Turkish Staff Officer (during World War I) – and incidentally a Turk who knew him thought he was the blackest-hearted man in the Middle East.” [14]
* * * * *
Within weeks of Adolf Hitler’s ascendance to power, Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini contacted the German counsel-general in Palestine. With exception of funding anti-Semitic riots, Germans rejected the Arab’s overtures until 1937, when Adolf Eichmann and Herbert Hagen were sent to Palestine to establish a framework to provide Husseini with military and financial aid by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.
He was officially received by Adolf Hitler on November 28, 1941, who agreed to establish a bureau for al-Husseini which was used to spread propaganda on behalf of Nazi Germany, organize spy rings in Europe and the Middle East, and most importantly, establish Muslim Nazi SS divisions and Wehrmacht units in Bosnia, the Balkans, North Africa and Nazi-occupied parts of the Soviet Union. After the meeting, the Mufti was also named SS Gruppenfuehrer by Heinrich Himmler and referred to as the “Fuhrer of the Arab World” by Adolf Hitler himself. [26]
The largest Muslim Nazi SS unit was the 13th division known as “Hanjar.” Husseini also encouraged the creation of smaller, less efficient units, including the 21st Waffen SS division known Skanderbeg (made up predominantly of Albanians) and the 23rd Waffen SS division known as Kama and made up mostly of Yugoslavian Muslims. Thus, the Hitler’s Mufti organized or helped to organize three out of 27 Waffen SS divisions formed before 1945 (eleven other SS divisions were formed in 1945, but most of these were of questionable caliber and accepted soldiers of questionable skill). According to the Encyclopedia of Holocaust, Husseini “organized in record time” Croatian units that went on to massacre hundreds of thousands of Serbian Orthodox Christians. Jacenovac, the third largest death camp where over 200,000 people met their death, was run by Croatian Ante Pavelic with the aid of al-Husseini. In all, at least 800,000 Yugoslavian civilians were murdered by pro-Axis regimes of Utasche and Pavelic. Despite the relative inefficiency of the Hanjar division and the total incompetence of the other two divisions, it can still be said that the units established and encouraged by the "Fuhrer of the Arab World" played a significant role in the genocide. [27] Tens of thousands of Jewish people outside Yugoslavia also perished when the Mufti persuaded not to trade them for German POW’s held by the Allies.
Al-Husseini opened a North African Bureau in Germany, whose goal was to recruit 500,000 Arab soldiers from Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. The plan failed when the German forces were forced to withdraw from much of North Africa after a successful British operation. [28]
However, an Arab Legion was founded and fought under the German flag. The Arab soldiers had hoped to fight in the Middle East, but were instead sent to the Russian front, where they were completely wiped out while fighting in the Caucasus region. Some time later, in response to the British decision to create a Jewish Brigade made up of some of the 26,000 Palestinian Jews who had fought under the United Kingdom’s flag, the Mufti convinced the Germans to create an Arab Brigade. The unit, however, either did not fight or was not very efficient because very little is known about it.
YES I SAY THE GERMANS ARE LOOKING AT THEIR HISTOY AND FINDING WHAT SIDE GOT THEM KILLED AND DEFEATED AND IT WAS THE MULSUMS??
The Mufti also made a particularly strong effort to recruit Soviet Muslims. “It was largely due to Haj Amin’s propaganda that on the arrival of German armies in the northern Caucasus in 1942, five indigene tribes – the Chechens, the Ingushes, the Balkars, the Karachais, and the Kabardines – welcomed them with bread and salt,” wrote Joseph Schechtman in “The Mufti and the Fuhrer.” Stalin’s response was deadly. Caucasian Muslims, including nearly all Chechens and Ingush, were exiled from their land, with up to a third dying as a result of inhumane treatment by Soviet authorities.
The Mufti was similarly instrumental in the recruitment of the Azerbaijani battalion, which “proved their valor, were included in German Storm Troops and decorated by the German Army,” according to a November 1943 broadcast by DNB. The Mufti’s representatives in Central Asia recruited some Muslim fighters for Nazi Germany there as well, despite the widespread support of the majority of Central Asian Muslims for the plight of the Jews during the Holocaust.

YES WE ARE SEEING A REPEAT BUT THIS TIME IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS THE FRENCH?? BUT THE GERMANS ARE WORKING WITH THE IRANIANS??

YES IT IS GOING TO GET UGLY THEY ARE NOT ONLY AFTER THE JEWS BUT ALL NON-MULSUMS LEAD BY MONSTERS!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT AMD COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO VICTOY TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR EVIL GIVE THE WORLD THE COURAGE TO STAND AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

O.T.

It looks like the Russians are trying to score some points with their friends the Iranians and Syrians.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050124/ap_on_re_eu/russia_anti_semitism

http://debka.com/article.php?aid=970

And for old times sake.
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/01/19/stalinmonument.shtml

I've been looking into the Coptic Christians. We are lucky enough to have a church here in town. I think my wife and I will attend a service. The Coptic Orthodox Church is arguably the oldest Christian denomination of all.

We are all Copts now. If we don't fight for their freedom in the United States, we will assuredly, and deserve to, lose ours.

Posted by: kentim at January 26, 2005 10:36 PM

THINK HOW MANY MULSUMS HE KILLED THAT IS WHY THE USA SAID NOTHING THERE IS A REASON FOR WHT IS GOING ON DO NOT JUMP THE GUN??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her against this Evil Amen

That includes Russia??

Hell, no. Russia is NOT our friend.

Theres reasons all right.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308798/posts

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1104376739151

http://www.neftegaz.ru/english/lenta/show.php?id=53509

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050117-115550-1929r.htm

http://www.missilethreat.com/missiles/ss-27_russia.html

http://www.vnagency.com.vn/newsA.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=2&CATEGORY_ID=29&NEWS_ID=134591

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has299010.000/has299010_0.htm

http://www.afpc.org/rrm/rrm323.htm

Putin is trying to get the mulsums out of the Duma??

Ask yourself Why??

http://www.mosnews.com/feature/2005/01/25/antisemitic.shtml
Russian MPs Bring Shame to Soviet Liberators of Auschwitz
Created: 25.01.2005 14:01 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 12:15 MSK, 18 hours 37 minutes ago
MosNews
As Russia prepared to take part in commemorating the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp in Poland, and just ahead of President Vladimir Putin’s visit to the memorial, hundreds of Russian nationalists including 19 parliamentarians asked Russia’s prosecutor to ban all Jewish organizations in the country as extremist.

“Let us assure you, Mr. Prosecutor-General, that there are a large number of well-established facts which lead to the indisputable conclusion: the negative assessment by Russian patriots of typical Jewish qualities and [their] actions against non-Jews are based on true facts and what is more these actions are not accidental, but prescribed by Judaism and have been practiced over the past 2000 years,” the document, signed by Rodina party member Alexander Krutov, read.

“Therefore, statements and publications against Jews are self-defense, which may not be stylistically correct, but justified in their essence.”

Krutov, who also edits the nationalist magazine Russky Dom, was joined by other deputies from the Communist party and the Liberal Democratic party. In the document, they called the Jewish religion “anti-Christian and inhumane, whose practices extend even to ritual murders”.

NOTICE WHO IS THE PROBLEM??

REMEEMBER WE DIDN'T LIKE EVERY THING STALIN DID BUT HE DID HELP IN THE FIGHT IN WW2 MOSTLY BECAUSE THE GERMANS SENT THE MULSUMS ARMYS TO KILL RISSIANS AND WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY??

CHILDREN DIED BECAUSE OF MULSUMS ??

LIKE I SAID DON'T JUMP THE GUN??

ASK YOUR SELF WHO ARE THESE LIBS IN RUSSIA??

THEN THINK ABOUT THE SPACE WALK TODAY??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Sight, Wisdom, and Courage to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

DO YOU AS AN AMERICAN AGREE WITH SENETOR KKK BIRD???????????

MAYBE NOT AS FOR THE MISSLES PUTIN SAID THE SALE WOULD NOT GO IF IS WAS AGAINST WHAT THE USA AND ISRAEL WANTED??

SO ARE THE LIBS[MULSUMS] TRYING TO DIVIDE AND ??

YES THE CHESS BORAD HAS AN ENEMY ON IT BETTER TO KNOW WHO YOUR CHESS PEICES ARE??

Catherine, read carefully. I said "Any Muslim organization or individual that can be linked to terrorist activity or killings should be monitored and eventually prosecuted to the full extent of the law." which you in your cap letters shout read as "IF SOME ONE KILLS THEY SHOULD BE MONITORED??" Linked has a specific meaning.

You shout: I DON'T SEE JEWS OR CHRISTIANS GOING AROUND CUTTING OFF PEOPLES HEADS DO YOU??

What I do see are Muslim rabblerousers charging that all Jews and Christians do abhorent things Being human some do, but just as all Muslims do not cut off heads, all Jews and Christians do not do abhorent things. I do not intend to get specific as slander is wrong.

Kentim, I've seen the various quotes from Islamic writings. I've also seen antisemitic conspiracy type writings which claim all kind of nasty things appear in the Talmud.

Freestar, you make an excellent point. It's why we haven't flattened Iraq.

DP111 - No, my opinion is the three religions are not equivalent. I could not have complete faith in Judaism if I thought so. Nevertheless, all three have some very positive standards of behavior though how they are enforced is the problem.

Moe's Foe: The Nazi philosophy has been continued in the New Age movement. It was part of a continuum starting in the distant past.

The best response for Jews and Christians is to go to their rabbi, priest or minister and ask what is the best way to implement the commandment "Thou Shalt not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor" in these difficult times. If you have faith in your religious beliefs, now is the time to learn to practice them.

It's pretty easy ... Islam - in it's current form - is not compatible to democracy. Democracy is what our countries are based on. As long as Christians (or Jews, Buddhists, Hindus etc.) are not allowed to freely and openly practise their religion in mainly muslim countries we mustn't allow muslims to freely practise their religion in our countries. And if there's going to be a "modern islam" no woman must wear a hijab - these are the little things that constitute the whole problem. Show us you're with us or go back to your caves. The people who built Stonehenge were more advanced than 90 percent of modern day muslims.

Two things:

a) According to the following link, the girls and their mother were raped and mutilated

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum6022

b) Comments such as "Let's get some ammo" or "Time to teach these Muslims a lesson!" are stupid and counter productive to say the very least.

The work of people like Robert Spencer, Hugh F., Ali Sina and many others are actually damaged by the stupid redneckish attitude of some of you.

You end up turning what should be a neutral news centre into a 24/7 hate fest.

NEWSFLASH: the only way to defeat islamic terrorism is from within.

That is why objective people like Ali Sina are actually getting results and why most of you won't.

Keep up the good work, Mr. Spencer.

No, they can be getting results from without too. We must have the courage to admit that there is a very large number of inveterate terrorists who will do anything to see us all dead.

However, that is the job for the armed forces, not for the average Joe. It is incumbent upon us not only to lean on the prosecutors, but also upon their superiors - the elected representatives who appointed them are sure to have great influence in the matter.

So... does anyone know who appointed Edward DeFazio prosecutor, and how to get in touch with that person?

Simple, we have to push our police and security services to get on the case and not bow down to PC.

However we also need to start dealing with Islam as a religion, we need to educate the people corrupted by Islam out of that so called religion. We need to stop the building of any more Mosques and start re-educating, get the people to look at the Qur'an and see how they responed to what is blatant war-mongering.

Muslims are still people, they are held in thrall by a religion that holds the death penalty against them if they leave, we have to break that.

Those that can not be saved from this fascist religion should be deported from the West, and we should have no sympathy at what happens to them, in the BBC website soime bleeding heart was saying they are accused of crimes in the home country, so they should answer for those crimes. The issue is that the UK has to get those countries not to apply the death penalty so they can be deported.

Liberal free-thinking democracies are the biggest threat to Islam. At times I have been so angry with certain low-lives in the UK that I fantacised shooting them. But at the end of the day we need to focus on Islam as being the problem, the people following it are either mis-guided or in fear.

Our weakness is that we are not dealing with the fanatics who keep the others under control, we have to start clearing them out so that we can get to the 90% that are decent people.

So stop the comments like grabbing a gun and shooting them, we are better then them, do not forget that.

My hard attitude is that I think that people living in the West have to accept our customs, that is a fundemental requirement. Islam is not compatible with our cutoms, so therefore Muslims are not suitable immigrants.

Those that can not be saved from this fascist religion and cannot abide by the laws should be deported from the West,regardless of the fact they are accused of crimes in the home country, so they should answer for those crimes,even if they face the death penalty.
If they can not respect the laws of the country that they are in,then they cannot expect that country to protect them.

Now is the time for the authorities to be toughening up on muslims. It's like this: they should all be deported, no let offs , no exeptions , every last one of them.
To allow them to stay is the equivalent of allowing a tumourous growth to remain inside your body.... the longer you leave it the bigger the problem gets and the more dangerous it becomes.

Whether or not all muslims are fundamentalists is no longer relevant, the fact is the extrem ones are to large in number and they blend in amongst the "modrerate" ones ( if there is really such a thing as a moderate within an extrem religion).

When the perpertrator/s of this gruesome slaughter is/are caught, an example needs to be made of them.
May I suggest hanging them from the statue of liberty, or pummeling them with bricks left over from the trade centre, until their skulls are reduced to a fine powder (actually not such a good idea, they feel right at home seeing someone get publicly, and mercilessly stoned to death).

Now is the time for the authorities to be toughening up on muslims. It's like this: they should all be deported, no let offs , no exeptions , every last one of them.
To allow them to stay is the equivalent of allowing a tumourous growth to remain inside your body.... the longer you leave it the bigger the problem gets and the more dangerous it becomes.

Whether or not all muslims are fundamentalists is no longer relevant, the fact is the extrem ones are to large in number and they blend in amongst the "modrerate" ones ( if there is really such a thing as a moderate within an extrem religion).

When the perpertrator/s of this gruesome slaughter is/are caught, an example needs to be made of them.
May I suggest hanging them from the statue of liberty, or pummeling them with bricks left over from the trade centre, until their skulls are reduced to a fine powder (actually not such a good idea, they feel right at home seeing someone get publicly, and mercilessly stoned to death).

Naseem,
You've got some gall, frothing on about your imaginary demon "allah" (piss be unto him) in a thread that shows exactly what blind faith in this abomination of a religion leads to.
"allah" is of less imporatant to me than a heap of dog-slurry I once trod into the grips of my brand new trainers, I have more respect for maggots in the bodies of the dead muslims (killed by our soldiers) in iraq than I do for "allah" and the mind-ravaged, camel-kissers who kill in his name.

Don't pretend you're disgusted by these insane murderers, to you it's "one less infidel, one more step to re-establishing total sharia world rule".

Shiva says "Those that can not be saved from this fascist religion and cannot abide by the laws should be deported from the West"

more senseless rants..... ehhhh! be deported to where partricularly? If they are a US or UK citizen no one is responsible for them except those countries. Are you implying that Western laws are not good enough to deal with the crime....then get the law changed....hang them if necessary....but you won't get anyone else taking them in.

Mr Rikki....I have really been disappointed with you. I thought that we were making some progress but you are simply a disturbed infidel.

You say "toughe up on muslims. It's like this: they should all be deported, no let offs , no exeptions , every last one of them".

On what basis...simply that we believe in Allah (swt).

You talk about muslims hate-ing and the vilification of fellow humans...well I have news for you.....you're very good at it too. So much so that I think you'd make the grade for a "good" muslim. By your definition I am a bad muslim.

Next time in my prayers to Allah (swt)I shall ask for forgiviness on your part....I will say that you know not what you say or what you do....now is the time for you to repent.

I urge you to get on your bended knees pointing east and say sorry.

Mr. Rikki ....best get used to us really....the reality is that we are going nowhere....soon a muslim will be your next door neighbour, your childrains will play theirs and then your child will say "assalaim-u-laikum" because he has picked that up. Now be sure not to slap him as knowledge is power.

In time your daughter may even bring home a muslim boyfriend...be a darling and treat him well....don't forget that he may want to pray to Allah (in your home)...and you simply would do anything for your daughter wouldn't you.

Well, Catherine, you are free to believe whatever you want.
My trust will be based on actions not words.
And I will not be distracted by the islamic menace, while other hostile powers take advantage of the opportunities caused by the islamics to weaken America's position.
For instance- while America's economy has been and is being damaged by the islamists, Russia has profited greatly since 9-11, in fact they have reaped a veritable windfall because of the wonderfully high oil prices that are the result of instabilty and war in the M.E. Almost a life saver. At least a military-spending life-saver.

Chechnya can hardly be considered a major contribution in the war against militant islam, considering the type of system Russia wishes to impose. Resistence to it is not unreasonable.

And consider that Osama's partner Ayman al-Zawahri had been captured by Russian forces in the Chechyen theatre and subsequently released-
This is'nt heresay,unlike the rumour about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, which even if true only shows the unreliability of Iraqis.

China and Russia are building an anti-American bloc, and this is indisputable. And there will be a confrontation.
Tunnel-vision invites being blind-sided and back-stabbed.

The islamic threat is compounded immensely by the actions of our other enemies.
The U.S.S.R. was the main instigator and trainer of terrorists world-wide. Including Arab/islamic ones. The American connection with Bin-Laden has been grossly exaggerated and falsified. And so has his role in the expulsion of the Soviets from Afghanistan. He was a bit player.

If one looks at recent and current trends what is seen is a steady erosion of American influence in areas of strategic importance and an increase of Chinese/Russian involvement and influence.

And mohammed was not the first to say "war is deception".
Sun Tzu had him beat by 100's of years.
"All warfare is based on deception,hence,when capable, feign incapacity, when active, inactivity. When near, make it appear that you are far away, when far away, that you are near. Offer the enemy a bait to lure him, feign disorder and strike him."- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

http://www.military-quotes.com/Sun-Tzu.htm

This reminds me of when that Egyptian pilot crashed that plane into the Atlantic. The government was so afraid of offending people all they said over and over was that it was not religious or terrorism. It may not have been, but that angle was barely investigated, we were afraid to.

When it's outside our borders, we can call it what it is. But inside, we are still recovering from COINTELPRO and afraid to denounce religious crime.

These people's lives have been lost, and the police are playing word games instead of trying to find the killers. At this point, I think the killers will never be found. Because then the detective investigating wants to interrogate the killer, his superiors are going to pull him off the case, saying he's racist, and the killer will be protected.

From the nature of the crime, it is obvious it is some personal reason. Sure it could be some other reason, but the defacing of christian symbols is usually called a "clue" and should at least be investigated, not written off before the investigation even starts.

Nassem
Firstly I am not going to engage in an insulting spree with you.Instead I would like an answer please > if a fanatical christian cut the throat of one of your family,would you call all christians fanatical murderers?

I only got through half the comments before giving up. I feel sickened by the bigotry and bare-faced racism shown here. I have no idea who committed these murders and neither do any of YOU! You have theories, notions, gut-feelings. Some amongst you, for reasons completely beyond me, now seem to be self appointed forensic and crime-scene experts when I suspect that most of you know absolutely nothing about crime investigation.
Nobody is covering this up. The police have NOT discounted any motives. They are just not prepared to assign a religious motive on the basis of what people like you think. That's the way the police are supposed to operate and you better be damn glad they do lest next time YOU are the one accused. You care so much about a free and democratic society with its constitution and rule of law but, when it suits you, you would rather all these inconvenient procedures be put to one side, sheesh!

Just listen to yourselves! :

No muslims; No mosques. Deport & Demolish. islam Is no part of American tradition.

a, well that's the problem with some of these brainless Muslim immigrants that infest America, they're too stupid to understand that they're not in their homeland anymore. And Allah (sht), Mohammad (sbuh), and these useless clerics and Imams do nothing to domesticate them.

Kameste says "Damn you and all your lying, taqiyah spewing degenerate monsters. You hear that sound? It's me spitting on your phony Islamic piety -- ptooie!!"

The Muslims are denying this vehemently, which tells me that they're hiding something.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jersey City Police weren't paid off by CAIR.

in order for the Islamic community to be safe from obliteration.

Obliteration? By whom? Which of you will come here and offer to administer the gas? And this on the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitch.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Americans lynched blacks on the basis of exactly what's going on here, and within living memory.

I despair for you all.

At last a sane voice, Bravo MrP.

I have been trying to say what you did albiet not so eloquently and ofcourse being a muslim my say carries little weight by most of teh postees.

I can try and understand the frustration but the blilnd hatred....paradoxically just the thing that muslims are constantly accused of.

Once again bravo MrP.

Catherine, read carefully. I said "Any Muslim organization or individual that can be linked to terrorist activity or killings should be monitored and eventually prosecuted to the full extent of the law." which you in your cap letters shout read as "IF SOME ONE KILLS THEY SHOULD BE MONITORED??" Linked has a specific meaning.

You shout: I DON'T SEE JEWS OR CHRISTIANS GOING AROUND CUTTING OFF PEOPLES HEADS DO YOU??

What I do see are Muslim rabblerousers charging that all Jews and Christians do abhorent things Being human some do, but just as all Muslims do not cut off heads, all Jews and Christians do not do abhorent things. I do not intend to get specific as slander is wrong.

DP111 - No, my opinion is the three religions are not equivalent. I could not have complete faith in Judaism if I thought so. Nevertheless, all three have some very positive standards of behavior though how they are enforced is the problem.

The best response for Jews and Christians is to go to their rabbi, priest or minister and ask what is the best way to implement the commandment "Thou Shalt not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor" in these difficult times. If you have faith in your religious beliefs, now is the time to learn to practice them.

Posted by: StopNewAge at January 26, 2005 11:18 PM

Frist writting makes no sound??

2) I believe that if some one has killed the least we can do is make an arrest not BE MONITORED!!!

3) as for slander what is it that you are thinking is slander??

REMEMBER THEIR BOOK SAYS??
Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad.”

Tabari VII:150 “I had tied my prisoner’s thumbs together with my bowstring. The Messenger of Allah looked at him and laughed so that his back teeth could be seen. Then he questioned me and I told him what had happened. ‘Well done!’ he said, and prayed for me to be blessed.”

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Tabari VIII:17 “The Muslims and polytheists stayed in their positions for twenty nights with no fighting except for the shooting of arrows and the siege. When the trial became great for the people, the Messenger sent for the leaders of the Ghatafan [Meccan comrades]. He offered them a third of the date harvest of Medina on condition that they leave. The truce between the sides progressed to the point of drawing up a written document, but there was no witnessing or firm determination to make peace; it was only a matter of maneuvering.”

Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you.]

MURDER:

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”

Ishaq:551 “Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam.”

Tabari VII:85 “Muhammad killed many Quraysh polytheists at Badr.”

Tabari VII:99 “In this year, the killing of Abu Rafi the Jew took place. The Messenger sent some Ansar under the command of Abd Allah and Abd Allah against the Jew. Abu Rafi used to injure and wrong the Prophet.... Abd Allah said to the others, ‘Stay where you are, and I will go and ingratiate myself with the doorkeeper to gain entrance.’”

Tabari VII:112/Ishaq:372 “When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, ‘Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden!’ I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, ‘If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face.’ Sa’d rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jew’s head open.”

TORTURE:

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

NO FREEDOM, NO CHOICE:

Qur’an 3:19 “Lo! religion with Allah (is) Surrender.”

Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”

DECEPTION:

Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”

Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”

Qur’an 33:14 “Say: Flight will not avail you if you flee from death, killing, or slaughter. In that case you will not be allowed to enjoy yourselves but a little while. Say, ‘Who will screen you, saving you from Allah if he intends to harm and injure you?’”

INTOLERANCE:

Qur’an 9:71 “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”

Bukhari:V4B52N260 “The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.’”

Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.”

Qur’an 2:64 “But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you.”

Qur’an 60:1 “Believers, take not my enemies and yours as allies, offering them love, even though they have rejected the truth that has come to you, and have driven out the Prophet and you because you believe in Allah! If you have come out to struggle [fight jihad] in My Cause, and to seek My Pleasure, (take them not as friends), holding secret converse of love with them: for I am aware of all you conceal. And any of you that does this has strayed from the Straight Path. If they were to get the better of you, they would be your foes, and stretch forth their hands and their tongues against you with evil (designs).”

Qur’an 9:4 “You cannot escape Allah, weaken or frustrate Him. And proclaim a grievous penalty of a painful doom to those who reject [Islamic] Faith.”

Qur’an 9:28 “Believers, truly the pagan disbelievers are unclean.”

Qur’an 9:113 “It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for the forgiveness for disbelievers, even though they be close relatives, after it is clear to them that they are the inmates of the Flaming Hell Fire.”

Qur’an 5:78 “Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.”

Ishaq:90 “Jewish rabbis, Christian monks, and Arab soothsayers had spoken about the Apostle of Allah before his mission when his time drew near. The rabbis and monks found his description in their scriptures. The Arab occultists had been visited by satans from the jinn with reports which they had secretly overheard before they were prevented form hearing by being pelted with stars.”

Ishaq:91 “The Prophet explained the nature of shooting stars. ‘Allah shut off the satans by these stars which pelted them. So satans tried to steal information, listening in, mingling what they heard with conjecture and false intelligence. They conveyed it to the soothsayers.’”

Bukhari:V4B54N506 “When a human being is born, Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers. That is why it cries.’”

Qur’an 6:66 “The people reject this (Book) and call it a lie though it is the truth. Say: ‘I am not a warden over you.’ ...When you see men who meddle with Our Revelations, turn away, withdrawing from them. Satan makes you forget.”

Tabari VI:107 “Satan Cast a False Qur’an Revelation on the Messenger of Allah’s Tongue.”

Ishaq:262 “‘To arms! To arms!’ the Muslims said quarreling and boasting among themselves. When this reached the Prophet, he said, ‘Muslims, will you act as pagans while I am with you?’ They realized that their dissension was due to Satan and the guile of their enemy. Then they went off with the Apostle attentive and obedient.”

Qur’an 2:102 “They follow what Satan chanted and gave out during the lifetime of Solomon. Though Solomon never disbelieved, the devils denied and taught sorcery to men, which they said had been revealed to the angels of Babylon, Harut, and Marut. However, these two (angels) never taught without saying: ‘We have been sent to deceive you.’”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

Ishaq:240 “The Jews are a nation of liars.... The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people.”

Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”

Ishaq:250 “The bestial transformation occurred when Allah turned Jews into apes, despised.”

Qur'an 59:14 “The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.”

Ishaq:264 “A notable Jew spoke to the Apostle, twisting his tongue. He attacked Islam and reviled it, so Allah sent down, ‘Allah knows best about your enemies. Some of the Jews change words from their contexts and say: “We hear and disobey,” twisting their tongues and attacking the religion so Allah cursed them.’”

Tabari VIII:130 “The Messenger said during his final illness, ‘Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.’ Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: ‘Allah has given permission for you to be expelled; for I have received word that the Prophet said that two religions cannot coexist in Arabia.”

Qur’an 59:14 “They [Jews] will not fight against you save in fortified townships. Their hostility and hatred amongst themselves is strong: you would think they were united, but their hearts they are divided. That is because these [Jews] are a people devoid of sense.”

Ishaq:242 “Julas the Jew used to say, ‘If Muhammad is right we are worse than donkeys.’ Allah sent down concerning him: ‘They swear that they did not say it, when they did say the words of unbelief.... Allah will afflict them with a painful punishment in this world and in the next.’ [Surah 9:75] Ishaq:242 “The Apostle ordered Umar to kill him, but he escaped to Mecca.”

Ishaq:263 “Abu Bakr went into a Jewish school [there is no mention of him ever going into a Muslim school] and found many pupils gathered around Finhas, a learned rabbi. Bakr told the Jews to fear Allah and submit. He told them that they would find that Muhammad was an Apostle written in the Torah and Gospels. Finhas replied, ‘Why does your god ask us to lend him money as your master pretends.’ Abu was enraged and hit Finhas hard in the face [for telling the truth]. Were it not for the treaty between us I would cut off your head, you enemy of Allah. So Allah said, ‘They will taste Our punishment of burning.’”

Ishaq:232 “The Jews shall contribute to the cost of war so long as they are fighting alongside the believers. The Jews have their religion, the Muslims have theirs. None of them shall go out to war unless they have Muhammad’s permission. The Jews must pay, however, for as long as the war lasts. If any dispute or controversy should arise it must be referred to Allah and Muhammad, His Apostle. If the Jews are called to make peace they must, except in the case of Holy War. Allah approves of this document.”

Bukhari:V4B52N176 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘You Muslims will fight the Jews till some of them hide behind stones. The stones will betray them saying, “O Abdullah (slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.”’”

Bukhari:V4B52N177 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”’”

SO YOU SEE I HAVE DONE MY HOMEWORK HAVE YOU??

YOU SAY NOT TO BARE FALSE WITNESS AND WHO DO YOU SAY IS DOING SUCH THINGS??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory[FREEDOM] To Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

Beagle, if you made your way through all the responses below you comment till you come to this you'll see the problem the world faces in its fight against Islamic fascism. Many of our esteemed fellow writers went straight off the rails, forgetting entirely that this post and this thread is about a family of Christians murdered in New Jersey. I'm embarrassed.

I too will go to the Coptic church in the city I'm in. It looks like the Christians here are more interested in whatever mists drift by in shapes and designs that inspire childlike wonder. My cat does the same, jumping to the sill to scratch at the glass when he sees a bird flying in the distance.

What about the family? Well, I'll put in my appearence. I guess you and your wife will to. That'll make three of us.

Nasseem??

Posted by: Naseem at January 27, 2005 09:20 AM

Next time in my prayers to Allah (swt)I shall ask for forgiviness on your part....I will say that you know not what you say or what you do....now is the time for you to repent.
I urge you to get on your bended knees pointing east and say sorry.

THIS DOES MAKE YOU A BAD MULSUM YOU AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PRAY FOR NON-BELIEVERS BOY THE LIES ARE STRONG TODAY??

Qur’an 9:113 “It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for the forgiveness for disbelievers, even though they be close relatives, after it is clear to them that they are the inmates of the Flaming Hell Fire.”

Qur’an 4:91 “You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority.” [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors “a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill” you.

Tabari VII:99 “In this year, the killing of Abu Rafi the Jew took place. The Messenger sent some Ansar under the command of Abd Allah and Abd Allah against the Jew. Abu Rafi used to injure and wrong the Prophet.... Abd Allah said to the others, ‘Stay where you are, and I will go and ingratiate myself with the doorkeeper to gain entrance.’”

SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU FOR YOUR LIES??

SILLYY SILLY WOMAN??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Cless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to FREEDOM to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen

Posted by: kentim at January 27, 2005 10:33 AM
I did not say I would follow blindly? Just like in WW2 we fought for the same cause and today in Moscow they have attacked some more Islamic Terrorist??
Remember there are not many Americans who even know about the 4 slaughtered in their homes in N.J much less the Head found in a parking lot in N.J on the same day??
I am more worried about China than Russia?
I see Russia going to close some of her doors because of the libs who will stop them from doing what needs to be done just like the libs in this country who stop us at every turn??
I am the kind of a person who says trust but verify!!
No you are right to keep your eyes wide open but don’t close your mind and jump the gun??
Remember it was Russia who tried to tell the west what was going on with the Mulsums killing all the Christians in Serbia?
• Page 10306 • {14/111}
of August, 1992, they refer to "the abominable double game of the Muslims that makes the war in Bosnia even more cruel," pointing out that the bread line massacre was committed by the Muslims. Corriere Della Sera says that: "Everything indicates that the defenders of Sarajevo, the Croats • and the Muslims, organised several attacks against their own citizens in the hope that in this way that they are going to deepen the drama of Sarajevo and the blame will only be cast on the Serbs."
THE INTERPRETER: Could the accused please be asked to slow down.
JUDGE MAY: Slow down. Slow down.
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] When we were on good terms, Holbrooke said to me that Izetbegovic managed to play the role of a victim and that he, Holbrooke, called that - I remember his words - "ruthless ingeniosity." However, this not ingenious at all. This is just heartless; sacrificing thousands of his own citizens in order to be able • to accuse the Serbs. I have to rush on. I have a map here. I'll give it to you. Camps for Serbs from 1991 to 1996. They existed at different points in time. Some went on for a longer period of time, some shorter. There were 778 of them altogether; 536 in Bosnia-Herzegovina, 221 in Croatia. And • here is a list of every one of these camps. It includes many pages. There are many crimes that were committed. I won't have time. I won't have time to show this. Many crimes were committed in Croatia before the independence of Croatia was proclaimed, before it was recognised. There is a great number of crimes committed in Bosnia before • the proclamation of independence, before recognition. Please, could you

• Page 10307 • {15/111}
just place these two images on the overhead projector -- or three, perhaps. These two, rather. Take a look at this. Please put these two on the overhead projector. I'm not going to put any other pictures on the overhead • projector. These are crimes from the 26th of March, 1992, in Sijekovac. The units crossed the Sava River and slaughtered the Serbs. Please put the big picture on the overhead projector. That's it. That's what they did. That's what the Mujahedin did, the ones we saw yesterday. And we saw Izetbegovic reviewing them • yesterday. What's the matter? Is it not on the screens?
JUDGE MAY: It's on the screen. Do you want the next photograph shown?
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] But I haven't seen it on the screen. • I only see you on the screen.
JUDGE MAY: It's on our screen. Make sure you've got the right button.
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] All right. All right. You don't want to show this. You don't want to show this to the public.
JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, it is on our screen.
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] It's not on the screens that the public sees. Right. I see it on this screen now. But this internal screen only. So he is holding a head, the head of a Serb that he cut off. So those are the 20.000 Mujahedin that were brought to the European • theatre of war through Clinton's policy, and most of them remained there

• Page 10308 • {16/111}
and some went to America and to other countries, and they went all around Europe. And then when they start beheading your own people in wars to come, then you will know what this is all about. There are many photographs of major crimes.
JUDGE MAY: The usher is by the overhead projector. Do you want some other photographs shown to us?
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] I don't have time, Mr. May. I have 12 minutes left --
JUDGE MAY: Very well.
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] -- according to your shortened procedure. But I want to say one thing to you. For example --
JUDGE MAY: Let the usher -- there's no need for the usher to remain there. Give the photographs back, if you would, to Mr. Milosevic.
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] Put the other picture on the ELMO, • please, the one with the three heads. Take a look at this, these three heads of Serbs in an ammunition case. They cut off heads. These are the madmen that are doing things like that. And that is what Clinton's policy in Bosnia did. They were assembled in Bosnia. Look at Algeria, which is a Muslim country. How many Muslims, • Algerians, did they kill so far? This has nothing do with Muslims. These are Islamic fundamentalists who are the enemies of the entire world. Not only of Christians or some others but of Muslims as well. You have --
JUDGE MAY: Now, do you want any other pictures shown?
THE ACCUSED: [Int.] I don't have time, unfortunately,

• Page 10309 • {17/111}
for any other pictures, but I do want to say one thing to you, that --
JUDGE MAY: Very well, let the usher take the pictures.

There are many things that are going on that we don’t see or are seeing with a slant our job is to look beyond the slant to see what they[mulsums] don’t want us to see!!

would we do anything less when our meida finilly shows all the crimes of rape and killing by the mulsums and their supporters in this country??

NO I DO NOT FOLLOW BLINDLY BUT I WILL NOT JUMP THE GUN EITHER!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Victory Amen

Catherine, I don't believe you have researched the Muslim writings on your own. Perhaps if you gave us the source of your information we might know with whom you align yourself.

Those of us who disagree with you are not naive regarding Muslim terrorism.

God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Victory And stop makingt the same fook-ups like they did in Serbia Amen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sira

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/

http://onlineislamicstore.com/tabari.html

Sonofwalker - Thanks for your ideas about uniting with the Copts. I am Christian, but it is harder than you think to get people to act together, at least in a positive way. This thread is a good example of mob mentality, which is not the kind that unites people on the church steps.

My heart weeps for those poor people.

Posted by: StopNewAge at January 27, 2005 02:59 PM

SO YOU ARE NOT A JEW BUT A MULSUM??

YOU HAVE MADE THE SAME MISTAKE DO NOT DENIE THE STATEMENT BUT ATTACK THE ONE WHO SPEAKS IT??

Part Of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL islamic Terrrist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Strength to Stand Up and Fight this Evil Amen

Naseem, MrP

There is a big difference between the "blind" hatred that you read here, and the "blind" hatred of islamists. The blind hatred that you read is a reaction to the utter barbarity of islam as a religion. It is reaction to beheadings, then proudly displaying the results on the web. Above all, it is reaction to the attempt by islamists to shut down freedom of expression, using murder and fear of murder, as a tactic. Despite all the gruesome beheadings by muslims which are truly barbaric, it is the assault on freedom, that really fills me and others on JW, with "blind" hatred. Hating the enemies of freedom is not a hate crime.

Moreover these "blind" hatred reactions are only words, unlike the islamists who actually kill for allah.

Naseem: Dont you think it would be far more useful for you to preach on peace and tolerance where it is required most - among the muslim community and to the clerics who call for the jihad, and the slaying of Jews and infidels using the koran as their text.

Good Lord, Naseem... you are really pathetic.. any thinking Human can figure out the source of this barbaric crime. There is only only one lot that walks this Earth and supports, condones, and openly commits barbarity... you guessed it.. muslims. And quit with the allah swt crap. What does swt stand for anyway, "Slay, Wipeout & Terrorize"? Very appropo' in my opinion. You're a sniveling muslim terrorist sympathizer. No soup for you!

Re: naseem

Don't feed the trolls, it only encourages them.

Canuck,
Quite so....

Naseem,
The day my daughter brings home a muslim boyfriend , will be the day I'm charged with murder.
There are only a few muslims in my community, and I can assure you after the strict new immigration laws kick in, in the next general election, that number will only shrink.

I will say once more, my hatred of muslims is because of their blind hatred towards everything and everyone in the world that isn't linked to their pathetic cult.
Go and preach to your murderous ilk.

MrP,
You should wise up and see who the real bigots and racists are. Your sermon made me chuckle actually, it reeked of the exact hypocracy you accused us of being flawed with.
For example you talk about how we want the law changed when it suits us..... well no actually, only for people who have zero respect for our laws and culture.
And your argument has a reminscent hypocritical statement, youspeak as though we should stay closed mouthed when we are presented with the crimes of muslims (which they obviously are, don't be too idiotic), yet you obviously prefer to stay tight-lipped about the ever present and very loud hatred coming from the mouths of muslims.
Whats wrong Mr.P, in your twisted , unrealistic view of the world is it alright for muslims to be as racist as they like, as long as it's not a white anglo-saxon, celtic or jewish person making the statement.
Sad man.

What words are there to describe the lack of media coverage on these slaying? Abomination is the first one that comes to mind.

One of the tenets of our Constituion is that of free press. Where, then, is the media feeding frenzy, of the type which covers the likes of the Peterson killings? In the long run, this Jersey City atrocity is much more important and directly relates to the safety of our nation.

I believe that political correctness has corrupted proper coverage of many stories and our law enforcement efforts as well. If this slaying is what I think it is (jihad), then all Americans are in danger if they speak words which "offend" Islamists, ideologists in religious disguise.

Catherine, I am asking you again what is the source of your quotes. I have looked at enough antisemitic material to recognize rabblerousing when I see it.

http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_346.html Though the given number of Muslims in the world has a wide range, let's take 1 billion as being somewhere in the middle. Many posters would have readers believe that they are all hateful, evil people who believe in stoning, beheading and killing families that didn't follow Muslim beliefs, that there was no diversity in the beliefs of that large number.

While I am not for singling out Muslims for special programs in public schools, I do think that simplistic thinking should be avoided when adults look at any religious group.

My label is Stop New Age because I know that is the group turning Muslims, Christians and Jews against each other. After all three are demonized, they will continue promoting their mishmash of occultic "spiritual" beliefs which supposedly will bring people ecumenically together in a common belief system devoid of morality. It's Chaos Theory in action.

Posted by: StopNewAge at January 28, 2005 10:56 AM

I would you suggest that you go to a book store and pick up a book called th quran then read it and see for yourself what the Islamic terrorist use to insight their Followers around the world to Kill all non-mulsums and Jews and Christians are at the top of the list??

As for as insightment I aint CUTTING People HEADS OFF and puting in on the INTER-NET Just puting what they teach their People??

GO to Some of the Sights that show this today and if you don't understand Arabic not to worry MERI will do the Translating for you??

IF you can't read Arabic not to worry there are qu-rans that are in English Mine is A contemporary translation by ahmed ali

Get your head out of your ASS!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fiht with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the Course to Destroy ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who SUPPORT them Amen

StopNewAge,

The source of the quotes is CLEARLY labeled next to them. What is your problem??? They are from islamic holy scriptures that are the FOUNDATIONAL basis on which islam stands. Without them(the earliest documentary record of islam in existence)the koran is incomprehensible and islam has no basis for being.

I posted some links to some of the material a couple posts above- read it for yourself and investigate further.
The early islamic sources, the bedrock of islam, make it clear what islam is-- a failed religion and an expansionist totalitarian political ideology that uses cult-type methods to maintain itself and enslave humanity.

Posted by: kentim at January 28, 2005 11:44 AM

LIKE IS SAID A MUSSI WHO CAN WRITE??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Defeat ALL islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat Amen

PS
That would be the Lose of FREEDOM look at England and no Bathing suit com. on the Tube??

NOT BECAUSE OF JEWS OR CHRISTIANS BUT MULSUMS!!!

I'm not familiar with "Messianic Judaism ".

I have basically come to the conclusion that all belief in an after-life is wishful thinking and that humanity is ridiculously gullible and simply cannot accept that when they are gone- they are gone. End, finito, thats all folks. See ego.

I think religions( a least in the case of Christianity) were invented to be used as a civilizing influence, a way of coercing reasonable and logical behavior out of populations. I think mohammed just tried to copy the concept of religion for power,influence and privledge, and because he was a nutcase, thats what his followers become.

Kentim, I think this set of comments has just about had it and others have moved on.

Messianic Judaism promotes the idea that Jesus was the Messiah and fulfilled Judaism, that there is no need any more for Judaim to continue to exit. People who follow that religion practice both Jewish and Christian rituals. There are many messianic groups around, the biggest of which is Jews for Jesus. Christians embrace Messianic Judaism as a half-way house for Jews on the way to becoming Christians. Most Jews have a very strong dislike of it because the recruiting methods are very deceptive and recruiters tell lies about Judaism. Messianic Judaism leaders are seen as troublemakers. There is a very strong cultic aspect to Jews for Jesus.

It seems to me that you have faith in your own beliefs. Because of the faith others have in their own belief system, they are willing to spend time, money and emotions to understand more about the world they live in according to that faith. I'm not sure what you would give up before you changed your beliefs, but isn't that what all of this is about?

kentim:

DA'WA ALERT.