This story underscores a fact that I have pointed out many times: radical Muslims — that is, those who are willing to commit radical and violent acts for their faith — are not a discredited fringe group that is sharply distinct from the Muslim community as a whole. They consider themselves simply to be Muslims, not "radicals," not "Islamists," or whatever other nomenclature you may favor. They mingle freely among Muslims worldwide, and make recruits from among "moderates" by appealing to Islamic theology and tradition — the Qur'an and Sunnah — in order to show that what they are doing is simply following the dictates of Allah and the Prophet Muhammad.
"Suspects in foiled US Embassy bombing go on trial," from AP, with thanks to Nicolei:
The trial of six men accused of plotting to bomb the U.S. Embassy in Paris opened with testimony from the suspected ringleader.Voluble French-Algerian Djamel Beghal, 39, told the Paris court on Monday that he had been kept in solitary confinement awaiting trial since his arrest in 2001. Terrorism suspects are sometimes detained alone for security reasons.
"I've not spoken for three years, so now I'm going to catch up," he said.
He explained how he moved to France in his 20s, married, did odd jobs and found his Islamic faith, which became "one of my reasons for living."
Asked if he considers himself a radical, he replied: "I am a Muslim and Muslim to the hilt."
Asked if he considers himself a radical, he replied: "I am a Muslim and Muslim to the hilt."
In other words, "Yes. I am a radical."
Damn... did you notice, he forgot to blame the Jooooz? What's up with that?
To rephrase the above remark,"We are infidels and infidels to the hilt".I'm certain that most of us posting here would agree with that statement.
For those of you who don't know who Djamel Beghal is, Beghal is an al-Qaeda suspect who once lived in London and attended Abu Hamza's Finsbury Park mosque along with Richard Reid, Zacarias Moussaoui, Nizar Trabelsi, the Courtailler brothers and other al-Qaeda suspects.
I do not think that there is any need to say "radical" Muslim. Just Muslim is enough. Muslims are radicals. Muslims means radicals.
If you are a Muslim and you are on this site and reading this, I ask you one question. What are your views on Israel? If the very mention of this question invokes brainwashed everlasting hatred within you, I rest my case.
"Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world..."
www.meforum.org/article/168
Hey, wait a minute, this flies in the face of all my multi-culti, politically correct ideas! /sarcasm
When is a Muslim not a Muslim, supposedly WHEN HE IS A RADICAL!!
Some of us are carrying on a discussion at Jan. 3, first thread. If you're interested in activism, please join us.
Correction. Go to Jan. 2, 05 to ""At large in U.S." for further discussion on activism.
Naseem where are you,save me from this radical christian,
A clip/paste of some earlier posting so older JW,rs ,excuse me
What about the muslims who where born into islam and had ISLAM pasted onto there ID cards,they did not choose to be muslim.There are a few million of this type of muslim,and a big procent hate islam,the only way out for them is death.
There is two groups of muslims,the ones who choose to be muslim.and the ones who do not have any choice
Come to Indonesia,take a trip to the villages around Ambon and Poso,where people are being forcefully converted and circumcised by Laskar Jihad while the police turn a blindeye.Go to Java and look how many families are homeless,thrown out of their villages because the kepala desa [village chief] or local iman thought they where not good enough muslim
Come to Indonesia,to my Factory,out of a couple of hundred workers I do not have one radical muslim,yet they are all muslim
Talk to my wifes mother who found her husband along with 18 other villagers hacked to small pieces in the village water well.All the villagers are now muslim.Not for the love of Islam
but the love of there necks
By stating that all muslim are radical just shows how little you know about humanity.
I hate Islam,and I hate fanatics be them muslim,hindu christian,left or right,and I hate
nazis and fascists.And Hate be woken to early in the morning
So please dont Generalize
I don’t quite agree with the above comments. It is true that there is no moderate Islam. Islam is fundamentalist Islam. There are, however, moderate Muslims. No, they don’t practice another type of Islam called “moderate” Islam. They just don’t practice Islam or they are quite lax in their practice.
Nevertheless, nominal Muslims see their devout brethren as part of the Ummah. Thus, even the moderate Muslim is complicit – they accept the behavior of the jihadist as a devout expression of their religion. They don't speak out against the concept of jihad.
Hey everyone,
Sorry I haven't answered your e-mails yet. I will soon. The flu has struck and I can't seem to get too far from the bed. I want my Mommy and chicken soup, NOW!
I will post an update real fast,
1. Mike is going to get information together on the various church headquarters/and information on violence against women.
2. Rabbit is putting together a web site we can use to post information, etc.
3. Son of walker is getting the leaflets together.
4. Rublev is going to get information together and format a letter for us on stricter immigration laws to send out to Congress.
5.Rikki is ready to distribute material in England.
6. Kelly mentioned getting a library project together to counter the project that CAIR has to place books on Islam in them.
We still need the following:
Someone to look into the day time talk shows, suggest a show to Oprah on reporters and authors getting sued for questioning Islam by CAIR. Suggest a panel, Robert, Daniel Pipes, Andrew Whithead etc.
Someone to look up information on "friendly" free press sites/web sites that we can submit articles by Robert, Hugh and DC Watson, plus other contributors from the site.
If Andrew is available, I'd like to get him to gather information on quotes from the Quran and quotes from various Muslim leaders. Show cause and effect on how the Quran is used to incite violence.
Someone to look into radio talk shows. Again we need to see what "friendly" sites there are to get Robert on them.
Throughout Europe and Australia, we need to get the same sort of information from members there.
From Canada, if Shiek Canuck and Ala Sux could put togeter information on Sharia law and how it will effect Canandian law and the loss of freedoms. Cause and effect.
I'd like to try to have everything by Mid-March, to pass along to everyone and start distribution of all the information we have.
I know there is more, but I can't get my brain wrapped around it.
I'm heading back to bed, will check in later.
I made a mistake in the update: Rublev is putting together info on Islam being taught in our schools, we still need someone to put something together on immigration.
For all the posters on the site, the following is what we're doing and we still need people to research out information and put some things together.
I'll start this off with some ideas I've had bouncing around my brain.
1.We need someone to conta
ct all the daytime talk shows. Ophrah has a link on her site for suggestion for upcoming shows. The topic should be censorship of reporters/authors that question Islam and the Quran.
a. Give examples of lawsuits and reporters that have been fired (mainly in England this has happened)
b. Suggest the panel (Robert, Daniel Pipes, Andrew Whitehead, etc.)
c. Daytime talk shows have the highest veiwer percentage and the longest time period.
2. It's great to have the quotes from the Quran, but they really don't mean anything unless we can show exactly how it's used to incite violence and supression of rights.
a. we need someone to link the quotes with statements from religious leaders and show cause and effect of these statements. (I'll explain later how this will be used)
3. Mike, I told you I'd be calling on you! We need research into where all the national offices are for the various Christian/Jewish/Hindu etc. churches. All denominations.
a. Also need someone to put together a letter, explaining how Islam has no tolaration for other religions and provide background information. Again quotes from the Quran and news links of church burnings, forced conversions, etc.
4.Forward over any links anyone has to Islam being taught in our schools. Rublev has offered to put together the information to send out to the Secretary of Education.
a. Please inclose where books have used provided by the Saudis, 1 example was the book that stated that North America was founded by Muslims and the length of time this incorrect information was actually taught. I believe it was for 2 years.
5.If someone could put together an on-line petition to stop the teaching of the Quran in our schools. State the separation of "Church and State", explain that it is indocternination with religious text, give examples where Islamic leaders have stated how our children are targeted.
6. We need someone to research out "Friendly news sites" Free Press Newspapers/web-sites, etc, where we can send articles by Robert, Hugh, Dc Watson and others on the site. This is where the quotes and links in no. 2 will come in. At the end of each article, we need to show exactly how the Quran is a call to violence against anyone who is not Muslim. Otherwise, people don't get it. Include the idea of a worldwide Caliphate and how that plays into most of the conflicts we now have worldwide.
7.Book slush fund. We need to earmark some funds for this. We have people in Europe that are willing to translate and get the information out to like minded people in their respective countries.
8.Need someone to put together information on violence against women in Islam.
a. Honor killings, rape of non-muslim women, forced conversions, female mutilations.
b. A list of all feminist groups- worldwide. I have seen far too many women from these groups try to explain that violence against women is NOT a common thing. It's time they get some education on this subject.
9.We need a form letter put together stating that tougher immigration laws are needed. Again give examples of how Europe is being over run and show the cause and effect on the cultures, the push for Sharia law in many countries and the freedoms lost due to this. Also, link in stories of border crossings and the stats on what percentage is Middle Eastern. This will be sent out out to every member of Congress.
10.I will forward the leaflets over as soon as I get them.
11. For those in Europe and other areas, also forward over the links and information you have on each of the above mentioned topics. We can customize the information to help you.
Please, offer suggestions or criticisms as you see fit. The whole idea of this was to come up with viable ways to DO something.
Susan_b
While I have not been posting at this, or any other site recently, or even doing many Hugh postings at NoJihad, I do keep up with what is going on, and must confess an extreme case of 'jihad fatigue'.
Over the New Year, I just freaked from having read one more supposed hard-hitting article that nevertheless treated Islam as something worth thinking about as a 'religion'. Below is my mind meltdown as I reconstruct it:
Islam is a total lie, the biggest lie of all time. It is pure evil, totally unredeemable, worse than Nazism, started by a psychopath, and perpetuated by thugs hiding behind 'religion'. Islam has killed more people in the last 10 years than the tsunami did. (Darfur, Algeria, Afghanistan, etc, etc, etc).
However, Islam without Muslims would just be a dead belief system that could be studied as an aberration in the history of Man. If Islam is a disease, then Muslims are the carriers. A 'moderate' Muslim is, viewed in the best light, someone who merely helps propogate the infection, regardless of the excuses of whether they don't know the full Islam or they say that they 'ignore' the 'nasty parts'. The pattern is always the same: when enough Muslims end up in one place, the trouble begins.
Islam and Muslims must be totally rejected as incompatible with a society that is built on freedom of thought, expression and belief. To even talk with them gives them a credence that they do not deserve. Every imam and every activist like Hooper knows that their existence in the West is a lie, and that they mean to do us harm.
In the latest US News there is an article on Muslims in Europe. Perhaps Europe can wake up in time to recognize the presence of the evil in their midst, the flesh eating bacteria, the cancer that is killing them. But the way the article is written puts Islam itself on the same plane as Christianity. That is the wrong place to start; the West must always start the conversation from the point of view that Islam is evil, forcing Muslims in the West to defend it. Muslims in the West must be shunned.
I am totally with Ali Sina on this. He says to any Muslim, "Here is the evidence (the Qur'an, Sirah and Hadith), Islam is evil, Muhammad was a psychopath, and you are living a life based on hatred for the benefit of the imams, mullahs, clerics and ultimately Mecca; you are a cog in a death machine. Prove me wrong, but if you cannot, LEAVE ISLAM. If you cannot prove me wrong, but do not leave Islam, you are now my enemy, and I will protected myself from you, and work to protect this land and its people from you and your kind. There is no middle ground."
The ultimate proof is the total lack of reciprocity of any kind from Muslims and Islam. They 'demand' freedom of religion here, yet do not allow it there. They constantly say that they are oppressed and demand our help (i.e. Indonesia and the tsunami) yet immediately demand that any women must be covered. They can stick it. What the hell is the Indonesian government doing in that Islamic paradise? How much is ANY Muslim country doing for their 'brothers' (except calling it Allah's will and blaming the Infidel's presence for it)?
We must look in the Devil's eyes and call him out.
Thus I ranted in my mind. Yes, it is not polite. And yes, there are no citations. Do I really need them? The very fact that Muslims glorify the 'career' of Muhammad which includes assassinations, rapes, beheadings, thievery, pedophilia is reason enough to totally reject any arguments from a 'moderate' Muslim (like Irshad Manji) that Islam brings them closer to God. The very fact that Muslims talk about 'tolerance' (boy, do I hate that word) when their very 'holy book' disparages, denigrates and delegitamizes Judaism and Christianity, should be enough to define Islam as evil.
Finally, think about this: if Allah knows all that was, is, and is to be, if Allah creates Infidels to throw them into hell, then Islam is total predestination and there is no reason for prayer five times a day, for Ramadan, for the hajj, for anything. Hence, there is no reason for the 'religion' of Islam, and its REAL reason is exposed: to conquer, to steal, to rape and to subjugate the rest of the world, and live off of other's work.
CAIR should not be accused of 'having ties to terrorist organizations', Islam itself should be accused of being a terrorist belief-system (thank you Hugh).
Ethelred is now spent.
Ethelred. No, I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that you are completely fried, not yet. You're a very important part of this ongoing battle we have with these misfits the world calls "radical" Muslims, and I beg of you to please step back, take a few breaths, and step back in swinging.
Since I have much respect for you, I'll be polite and simply say to you, my fellow anti-jihadi : Knuckle up!
Sonofwalker says we are having group discussion on thread from 2Jan05 "At large in the U.S.:
I could not get back there; even typed in search but could not get to that post.
Am a novice computer expert, for my real job I perform bain surgery for those less fortunate people at discount rates.
And I fwy airpwanes on the weekends but I just dont have this computer thing down yet.
Would like to offer much help!
Chuck, see the calendar to the left? Go there and click on the 2. It should take you to the Jan. 2nd.
Hmmm, click on the archives - January and scroll down.
How could this be??
December 24, 2004
Christians in Indonesia to avoid churches at Xmas-time
More news from "moderate" Indonesia. From Straits Times, with thanks to Nicolei:
JAKARTA - FEARS of attacks by Islamic militants are forcing some Christians in Indonesia to abandon traditional churches in favour of more discreet and secure venues this Christmas.
With foreign governments warning of holiday terror bombings, thousands of churches in major Indonesian cities will hold services this year in office buildings, hotels and even movie theatres, church leaders say.
'It puts us at a lower risk of being a target for religious persecution,' said Pastor Steve Lunn, originally from Seattle, whose International English Service holds services for 1,000 people in a downtown Jakarta office building.
'People tell me they feel safer,' he said.
'The facility itself is not the most important thing. It's just a place to gather. The most important thing is being together and worshipping God together.'
Indonesia, a sprawling archipelago of more than 13,000 islands and 210 million people, is the world's most populous Muslim nation.
The vast majority of Muslims practise a moderate version of the faith.
Sure they do. That's why Christians are meeting for Christmas in movie theaters.
And the idea that Christians should have second-class status, a traditional concept of Islamic law, is alive and well there:
But attacks against Christians, who make up just 8 per cent of the population, have become more frequent since ex-dictator Suharto's downfall in 1998, and amid a global rise in Islamic radicalism. Mr Suharto enforced secularism as part of national security policies....
'People are still afraid,' said Pastor Hengki Ompi, whose church was attacked earlier this month by suspected Muslim gunmen on the central Indonesian island of Sulawesi.
'We hope the attacks stop so we can celebrate Christmas without fear.'
Plans to build new churches are sometimes met with violent protests from Islamic groups, which view them as an attempt to convert Muslims.
Church leaders also say a decree requiring religious leaders to get neighbourhood approval before building new places of worship is being used to discriminate against them.
Some church leaders say these obstacles are understandable, given the country's Muslim majority, and acknowledge that Muslims face similar problems in the few pockets of Indonesia where Christians dominate.
But others say the restrictions reflect a growing intolerance of religious minorities.
'We have a lot more liberties than say Afghanistan and Pakistan...but the fact is that Christians are second-class citizens,' said Pastor Bill Heckman, a Dutchman who has tried for six years to build a church in Jakarta....
Muslims say evangelical Christians are partly to blame for rising religious tensions.
They say hundreds of foreign-funded evangelical groups are using churches in Muslim-dominated neighbourhoods to convert locals - a claim some Christians acknowledge is true.
In response, the government has proposed a law that would bar Indonesians from attending religious ceremonies that do not reflect their faith - making it harder for them to switch.
It would also criminalise inter-faith marriages and adoptions.
Posted at December 24, 2004 12:22 PM
How many went to a service and were saved from the killer wave and Earthquake??
COULD THIS BE WHY SO MANY MULSUMS HAD TO DIE??
December 24, 2004
Indonesia: Machete gang attacks preacher
Jihad against Christians continues in "moderate" Indonesia. From AAP, with thanks to Twostellas:
A CHRISTIAN preacher has been attacked and badly wounded by a machete-wielding gang on the Indonesian island of Sulawesi despite a massive security operation intended to curb sectarian blood-letting and terror attacks during Christmas.
Reverend Jemri Tambalino was in critical condition after the attack by three men in the coastal town of Poso, which has been a major battleground between the Muslim majority and Christian minority.
The preacher, who was riding a motorbike, suffered deep slash wounds to his neck and face.
A friend travelling with Rev Tambalino was also attacked, with injuries to his hand, a hospital spokesman said.
More than 1000 people have been killed in the area over four years of sectarian fighting.
A recent report by the Brussels-based International Crisis Group warned extremists linked to the Jemaah Islamiah terror network were using the area as a recruiting ground....
At the main Catholic Cathedral in Jakarta, metal detectors had been installed ahead of Christmas Eve services, and hundreds of paramilitary police were expected to be placed outside this afternoon....
Reverend Natan Setiabudi, chairman of the Indonesian Communion of Churches, said Christians "do not feel totally secure", particularly since the Palu attacks showed violence "could happen anytime, anywhere".
Posted at December 24, 2004 12:04 PM
COULD THIS BEE WHY SO MANY MULSUMS DIED IN INDONISA??
A. E. Vacalopoulos summarized the devastating impact of five centuries of Seljuk and Ottoman jihad campaigns in Asian Minor and the Balkans (Vacalopoulos, A.E. Origins of the Greek Nation-The Byzantine Period, 1204-1461, New Brunswick, N.J., 1970, pp. 61, 68; 72-73):
“At the beginning of the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks forced their way into Armenia and there crushed the armies of several petty Armenian states. No fewer than forty thousand souls fled before the organized pillage of the Seljuk host to the western part of Asia Minor. From the middle of the eleventh century, and especially after the battle of Malazgirt [Manzikurt] (1071), the Seljuks spread throughout the whole Asia Minor peninsula, leaving error, panic and destruction in their wake. Byzantine, Turkish and other contemporary sources are unanimous in their agreement on the extent of havoc wrought an the protracted anguish of the local population…[The Greek chronicler] Kydones described the fate of the Christian peoples of Asia Minor thus:
‘The entire region which sustained us, from the Hellespont eastwards to the mountains of Armenia, has been snatched away. They [the Turks] have razed cities, pillaged churches, opened graves, and filled everything with blood and corpses…Alas, too, they have even abused Christian bodies. And having taken away their entire wealth they have now taken away their freedom, reducing them to the merest shadows of slaves. And with such dregs of energy as remain in these unfortunate people, they are forced to be the servitors of the Turk’s personal comforts.’
“From the time the Ottoman Turks first set foot in Thrace under Suleiman, son of Orchan, the Empire rapidly disintegrated….From the very beginning of the Turkish onslaught under Suleiman, the Turks tried to consolidate their position by the forcible imposition of Islam. [The Ottoman historian] Sukrullah [maintained] those who refused to accept the Moslem faith were slaughtered and their families enslaved. ‘Where there were bells’, writes the same author, ‘Suleiman broke them up and cast them onto fires. Where there are churches he destroyed them or converted them into mosques. Thus, in place of bells there were now muezzins. Wherever Christian infidels were still found, vassalage was imposed upon their rulers. At least in public they could no longer say ‘kyrie eleison’ but rather “There is no God but Allah; and where once their prayers had been addressed to Christ, they were now to ‘Mohammed, the prophet of Allah.’ ”
E.G. Browne (A Literary History of Persia, Vol. III, 1928, p. 196) describes the jihad depredations of Timur [Tamerlane] against the Christian populations of Georgia and Asia Minor, at the outset of the 15th century (A Literary History of Persia, Vol. III, Cambridge, 1928, p. 196):
“The winter of A.D. 1399-1400 was spent by Timur in Qarabagh near the Araxes, and ere spring had melted the snows he once more invaded [Christian] Georgia, devastated the country, destroyed the churches and monasteries, and slew great numbers of the inhabitants. In August, 1400, he began his march into Asia Minor by way of Avnik, Erzeroum, Erzinjan, and Sivas. The latter place offered stubborn resistance, and when it finally capitulated Timur caused all the Armenian and Christian soldiers to the number of four thousand to be buried alive; but the Muhammadans he spared.”
10. John Cartwright, British Consul-General in Constantinople, filed the following report from Constantinople May 25, 1822 (in, Argenti, Philip. The Massacres of Chios, Described in Contemporary Diplomatic Reports, London, 1932, pp. 39-40.)
“Scio [Chios], with the exception of twenty five of the Mastic Villages, was a complete scene of desolation – the air corrupted by the stench of dead bodies had produced an infectious disorder on board the Turkish Fleet which was daily carrying off its’ victims. The fate of the unhappy survivors in the Sciote tragedy is miserable indeed – the females and children doomed to slavery from which there will be but little chance of redemption, as all possible means are taken to prevent the sale of them to Christians. The hostages who were confined in the Castle of Scio as well as those who were here have been put to death.”
IS THE PAST SO DIFFERENT FROM TODAY??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AD HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO CRUSH ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
If when Aparttied was over and the Whites of Africa dicided not to vote would any one have cared???
A radical...in his own words.
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD83804
I think this Beghal is being honest. He knows he's following Islam as it was meant to be followed. He's a true Muslim, alright. Funny how when the truth is shoved in our face, many in the West refuse to believe it. Instead desperately hanging onto the myth of Islam is Peace.
I'm also of the opinion that though there may be moderate Muslims, there is no moderate Islam. Not the way it stands today. If some bigshot Mullah somewhere took a pair of scissors to the Koran and removed all the bits about hating, killing and subjugating infidels, the Koran would probably end up being a thin leaflet. All it would contain is those pillars of Islam about charity and stuff. The rest of it would be an instruction manual for people who can't think for themselves and need to have their lives micromanaged to an obsessive compulsive level.
guy caught trying to bring 200 air to surface missles??/
And we have??
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-01-04-egypt-nukes_x.htm
IAEA: Egypt has produced nuke materials
VIENNA (AP) — The U.N. atomic watchdog agency has found evidence of secret nuclear experiments in Egypt that could be used in weapons programs, diplomats said Tuesday.
The diplomats told The Associated Press that most of the work was carried out in the 1980s and 1990s but said the International Atomic Energy Agency also was looking at evidence suggesting some work was performed as recently as a year ago.
Egypt's government rejected claims it is or has been pursuing a weapons program, saying its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes.
"A few months ago we denied these kinds of claims and we do so again," Egyptian government spokesman Magdy Rady said. "Nothing about our nuclear program is secret and there is nothing that is not known to the IAEA."
But one of the diplomats said the Egyptians "tried to produce various components of uranium" without declaring it to the IAEA, as they were bound to under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. The products included several pounds of uranium metal and uranium tetrafluoride — a precursor to uranium hexafluoride gas, the diplomat said on condition of anonymity.
Uranium metal can be processed into plutonium, while uranium hexafluoride can be enriched into weapons-grade uranium — both for use in the core of nuclear warheads.
The diplomat said the Vienna-based IAEA had not yet drawn a conclusion about the scope and purpose of the experiments. But the work appeared to have been sporadic, involved small amounts of material and lacked a particular focus, the diplomat said.
That, he said, indicated that the work was not directly geared toward creating a full-scale program to make nuclear weapons.
Egypt has denied in the past it is trying to develop a nuclear weapons program.
The country appeared to turn away from the pursuit of such a program decades ago. The Soviet Union and China reportedly rebuffed its requests for nuclear arms in the 1960s, and by the 1970s, Egypt gave up the idea of building a plutonium production reactor and reprocessing plant.
Egypt runs small-scale nuclear programs for medical and research purposes, and Rady said the IAEA is monitoring that program.
"Nothing about our nuclear program is secret and there is nothing that is not known to the IAEA," he said. "We don't have a secret program for energy. All our program is known."
Plans were floated as recently as 2002 to build the country's first nuclear power reactor. But no construction date has been announced, and the pro-government Al-Ahram Weekly reported late last year that the plant site near the coastal town of Al-Dabaa might be sold to make way for tourism development.
Although Egypt signed the Nonproliferation Treaty, it has become in recent years one of the treaty's most vocal critics, mainly because of concerns about Israel's undeclared nuclear arsenal and more recent fears about Iran's nuclear agenda.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/1/4/201223.shtml
IAEA: Egypt Produced Nuclear Material
NewsMax.com Wires
Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2005
VIENNA, Austria — The U.N. atomic watchdog agency has found evidence of secret nuclear experiments in Egypt that could be used in weapons programs, diplomats said Tuesday.
The diplomats told The Associated Press that most of the work was carried out in the 1980s and 1990s but said the International Atomic Energy Agency also was looking at evidence suggesting some work was performed as recently as a year ago. Egypt's government rejected claims it is or has been pursuing a weapons program, saying its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes.
"A few months ago we denied these kinds of claims and we do so again," Egyptian government spokesman Magdy Rady said. "Nothing about our nuclear program is secret and there is nothing that is not known to the IAEA."
But one of the diplomats said the Egyptians "tried to produce various components of uranium" without declaring it to the IAEA, as they were bound to under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. The products included several pounds of uranium metal and uranium tetrafluoride — a precursor to uranium hexafluoride gas, the diplomat said on condition of anonymity.
Uranium metal can be processed into plutonium, while uranium hexafluoride can be enriched into weapons-grade uranium — both for use in the core of nuclear warheads.
The diplomat said the Vienna-based IAEA had not yet drawn a conclusion about the scope and purpose of the experiments. But the work appeared to have been sporadic, involved small amounts of material and lacked a particular focus, the diplomat said.
That, he said, indicated that the work was not directly geared toward creating a full-scale program to make nuclear weapons.
Egypt has denied in the past it is trying to develop a nuclear weapons program.
The country appeared to turn away from the pursuit of such a program decades ago. The Soviet Union and China reportedly rebuffed its requests for nuclear arms in the 1960s, and by the 1970s, Egypt gave up the idea of building a plutonium production reactor and reprocessing plant.
Egypt runs small-scale nuclear programs for medical and research purposes, and Rady said the IAEA is monitoring that program.
"Nothing about our nuclear program is secret and there is nothing that is not known to the IAEA," he said. "We don't have a secret program for energy. All our program is known."
Plans were floated as recently as 2002 to build the country's first nuclear power reactor. But no construction date has been announced, and the pro-government Al-Ahram Weekly reported late last year that the plant site near the coastal town of Al-Dabaa might be sold to make way for tourism development.
Although Egypt signed the Nonproliferation Treaty, it has become in recent years one of the treaty's most vocal critics, mainly because of concerns about Israel's undeclared nuclear arsenal and more recent fears about Iran's nuclear agenda.
© 2005 Associated Press
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH,WISDOM,SIGHT AND COURAGE TO CRUSH ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN
PS
And powell thinks if we help the mussis in Indonisa they will like us he needs to look at history and the Dutch from the 1700s
Catherine, I'm with you. No matter how much we give to the Muslim world, they'll still loathe us. They're brainwashed with that hatred from day one. Maybe a few might wonder how people who are demonized can be so generous, but I'm sure that feeling would be shortlived. Plus, having to be so dependent on Western aid and superiority must really aggravate them. Afterall Islam is supposed to be so wonderful, so superior, and yet their Arab brethren have turned out to be uncaring and stingy. I think this will make more of them hate and resent us even more than they already do.
Have to agree with Ethelred-
there is no point in trying to argue with the members of or discuss the 'religion' of Islam.
If you've read the Koran, you realize it is a weird, self-excusing piece of obvious plagiarism that would have gotten Mohammad thrown out of any good university (at nearby Alexandria, perhaps?) had he turned in the "Koran" as an example or an 'original' work. It steals from the Old and New Testament wholesale, and turns away from the compassionate enlightment of Jesus (who was killed for mocking the dead tenets of Judaism with such za-zen-sharp sayings as "It is not what goes into a person's mouth but what comes out of it that makes them unclean.") and takes us back to the "Old Nobodaddy" horrors of the vengeful, tyrannical, despotic, cruel, egomaniacal, 'unconscious' Hebrew tribal deity Yaweh.
If you have any understanding of comparative religion or human nature, you already grasp that Islam is a Great Leap Backward. And anyone foolish enough to follow such simplistic claptrap is dangerous just by being so calamitously naive.
Let them turn up the heat until their are fried by their own arrogant madness. (Perhaps with a little help from Edward Teller, if it comes to that.)
'Moderate' Muslims are the one who watch as their radical brothers shoot Iraqi policemen dead in the streets and do nothing.
OT-
Allah drowns 100,000 Muslims for X-Mas.
My money goes to the Buddhists on Sri Lanka.
The Muslims who hate the West in the Tsunami zone can get their aid from the Saudi royal family.
Djamel Beghal is a knobhead and a knobhead to the hilt (complete and utter that is).
Update on donations
these figures do not show private donations
Japan 500.00
USA 350.00
Norway 181.90
Britain 96.00
Italy 95.00
Sweden 80.00
Denmark 76.83
Spain 68.02
France 66.38
Canada 66.00
China 60.42
South Korea 50.00
Australia 46.48
Netherlands 34.00
EU 31.29
Saudi Arabia 30.00
Germany 27.21
Qatar 25.00
Switzerland 23.81
UAE 20.00
Belgium 16.32
Ireland 13.62
Austria 10.88
Portugal 10.88
Kuwait 10.00
Luxembourg 6.80
Finland 6.12
Taiwan 5.25
New Zealand 3.60
Singapore 3.10
Algeria 2.00
Bahrain 2.00
Libya 2.00
Venezuela 2.00
Turkey 1.25
Hungary 1.20
Poland 1.00
Greece 0.40
Cyprus 0.37
Slovakia 0.23
Bulgaria 0.14
Slovenia 0.11
African Union 0.10
Dollars For Terror
By Rachel Ehrenfeld
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 12, 2004
"There is no distinction between those who carry out terrorist attacks and those who knowingly finance terrorist attacks,” declared Attorney General John Ashcroft on July 27, 2004, announcing the indictment of the Holy Land Foundation and its leaders for providing material support to the Hamas terrorist organization. He added that, “The United States will ensure that both terrorists and their financiers meet the same, certain justice.”
Nevertheless, the U.S. government seems to be dragging its feet on indicting those who finance Islamist terrorists – based, in large part, on their identity. What else could explain the conspicuous lack of an indictment against the Amman-based Arab Bank, which has been instrumental in transferring donations from the Holy Land Foundation and other Palestinian terrorist supporting organizations in the US and elsewhere?
The Arab Bank is the largest bank in Jordan, with 350 branches around the world and reported total assets of some $23 billion. Based in Amman, the bank is THE major banking institution in the Palestinian territories, and operates 15 branches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It serves as the primary recipient and distributor of the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) funds, and is the preferred financial institution for a slew of terror groups – including Hamas, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), just to name a few.
The Arab Bank has even been identified by the PA’s security services as the major channel for funds from abroad to these organizations. This, of course, explains the presence of the Saudi Ministry of Finance and Economy, the Chairman of Palestine Development & Investment Ltd (PADICO), the Lebanese Finance Minster, and the Chairman of the Palestinian Telecommunications Corporation on its Board – connections that raise disturbing questions about complicity in the financing of terrorism.
In October 2000, shortly after the outbreak of the latest Palestinian intifada, the Saudi Committee for the Support of the Intifada al-Quds (“Saudi Committee”) was established in Riyadh as a private charity, run by Interior Minister Prince Naif bin Abd al-Aziz. The stated mandate of the committee was to support the “Intifada al-Quds” and the families of [future] martyrs and [future] injured Palestinians. Shortly after its founding, the first of two telethons was held, with Prince Naïf calling for contributions, proclaiming that this telethon “is a continuation and assertion of the kingdom’s support [for the Intifada].” The two telethons raised $174 million, subsidizing the Palestinian terror campaign and bankrolling Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and their related front organizations in the West Bank and Gaza. Although these Palestinian organizations at the time were not listed on the State Department’s Terrorist List, they since have been added.
The Bank, the Saudis and other contributors to Palestinian charities that front for Hamas, the PIJ and others, claim, of course, that the money they sent to Jihad was intended for charity. However, leaflets distributed by Hamas in Gaza leave little doubt about the purpose of the money, beseeching, “If you can’t give your life, give your money”; “If it is impossible for you to bear arms and you truly desire to fight in the holy war, contribute from what you have received from Allah;” and “The land is ours… the jihad is ours… the Jews are our enemies and the money belongs to Allah.”
Their supporters have answered the call. On April 11, 2004, the website IslamOnline cited an operative of Hamas’ Izz a-Din al-Aqsa Brigades as saying that “an overseas donor had pledged a sum of money equal to the value of a significant number of Qassam rockets.” He also claimed that other donors had “pledged sums sufficient to recruit, train and send out many suicide bombers.”
In all, according to Palestinian documents seized by the IDF, the Saudi Committee “reported the transfer of $55.7 million mostly to the families of suicide bombers and to the families of imprisoned or injured Palestinian militants.” The Saudis transferred some of these funds in riyals to the Arab Bank’s branch on Madison Avenue in New York, which in turn “laundered the money” and forwarded the sum in dollars to the Arab Bank branch in Ramallah. These are just some of the charges leveled at the bank by American victims of Palestinian terror, who are now in the process of suing the Arab Bank in New York.
Saudi Arabia’s sponsorship goes beyond merely raising money to bankroll Hamas, the PIJ, and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, however. Together with the Arab Bank, Riyadh has launched a PR campaign in the Palestinian territories, publicly announcing that this money was available for future “martyrs” and their families. Such advertisement surely encouraged potential Palestinian terrorists to volunteer, especially armed with the knowledge that an “insurance coverage” of over $5,000 was guaranteed to their families upon their death. Lesser amounts were promised – and provided – to those merely wounded or captured by the Israelis while carrying out a terror attack.
There are many more minute details about the Arab Bank’s active pursuit of Palestinian terror financing. Since the Arab Bank is the biggest bank in Jordan, since it has been identified by the Spanish authorities as having transferred money from the al-Qaeda cell in Spain to members involved in the September 11 attacks, of having wired money to al-Qaeda members in Yemen and Pakistan, and since it has been conducting its Palestinian terror financing in public – Hamas openly solicits donations, posting account numbers in the Arab Bank on its Internet site – one wonders why the Jordanian government has not put an end to these activities? And these activities beg the question: why has the U.S. refrained from bringing legal action against the bank?
Rachel Ehrenfeld is a member of the Committee On The Present Danger, the author of Funding Evil: How Terrorism is Financed and How to Stop It, and the Director of the American Center for Democracy.
Ethelred,
You have made a fantastic work at putting into words all what the Islamic thing is about. Your lines are a perfect summary of the theory and praxis of the horrendous ideology invented by a Seventh Century psychopath of the likes of Jim Jones and David Koreish, the Messiah of Waco.
I specially like your proposition:
"Here is the evidence (the Qur'an, Sirah and Hadith), Islam is evil, Muhammad was a psychopath, and you are living a life based on hatred for the benefit of the imams, mullahs, clerics and ultimately Mecca; you are a cog in a death machine. Prove me wrong, but if you cannot, LEAVE ISLAM. If you cannot prove me wrong, but do not leave Islam, you are now my enemy, and I will protected myself from you, and work to protect this land and its people from you and your kind. There is no middle ground."
If I ever dare to write the book about Islam I have in mind (think of Theo van Gogh, I would use all your clever depiction of that death cult as an introduction to the various chapters in it.
Congratulations!
I had to leave after I wrote my 'mind-rant', and I want to thank those who agree with me.
All I am trying to say, is that while the terms with which Islam and Muslims HAS changed over the past few years, it seems to me that we (that is, the larger we, the West, and its institutions) are still making distinctions between 'radical' Islam and Muslims and 'moderate' Islam and Muslims.
When Islam was strong, it didn't care what anyone else thought and went its merry way killing, raping, plundering and enslaving. But now that it is militarily weak, as well as economically weak (except oil), Islam is using the bait-and-switch technique, hiding behind 'religion' and attacking us by exploiting our humanity and using it against us.
So, the sooner the larger population, including those who go to this site and other's like it, always start the debate with 'Islam is an evil', the better off we will be.
A few other things:
To Cid Campeador - that proposition is Ali Sina's, not mine. He recently upgraded his bet to not only will he take FaithFreedom down, but has hocked his house and will pay $50,000 if anyone can prove him wrong. Go to that site and read the 'debates'. He thrashes everyone because (a)he knows Islam backwards and forwards and (b)he starts from the propositon that Islam is evil and Muhammad was a psychopath.
Please also understand that I am NOT attacking Robert Spencer who has sacrificed much time, money and effort to create and run this site. We might disagree on strategy, goals and timetables, but we are in the same fight. However, if you agree with the gist of what I am saying, then let him know.
Ethelred
"shiva" (http://profile.typekey.com/latifah) wrote
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004496.php#c63560
Thanks for the warning shiva but it is of little use since they will slit your throat anyway even if you don't do or say anything. Remember shiva that they even kill baibes who haven't learnt to talk yet. Remember 9-11 (September 11), Madrid bombings, Bali bombings, Baslan and so on. All those killed in those atrocities never said or did anything.
shiva also wrote
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004536.php#c64207
I am not sure that people who hate Islam, didn't choose to be muslim but claim themselves to be muslim for the love of their neck are "real" muslims.
Are you not "generalising" here?
It would be a false generalisation to say that those merely pretending to be muslims and the "real" muslims are the same.
I would not generalise here but treat the two groups as seperate. I do not consider those merely pretending to be muslims as "muslims."
As for Islam I agree with what "jasonP" (http://profile.typekey.com/JasonPappas) said here
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004536.php#c64212
Islam is radical Islam. So those "real" muslims who choose to believe in Islam are "radicals" because Islam teaches radicalism, just as I argued back there (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004536.php#c64152).
I am not sure those supposed muslims at your factory who are not radicals are real muslims since they obviously do not follow the true teachings of Islam.
Finally, get over being angry with me. I have no problem with you as long as you don't go around acting like a mullah or imam and ordering people how or what to write here.
Informed christian
If what you state is correct then why are muslim killing muslims/radicals killing radicals.
You do not have to answer me,as I already have a good idea.
For me,there is nothing more to discuss,I have just this to say,an onion has many skins,start peeling.
DA DA selemat malam
"Informed Christian" makes the right point.
Not all Muslims are true Muslims who fully practice the religion exemplified by Mohammad as shown in the Koran and Hadith.
Let me explain. Sometimes the word “Muslim” is just used in a demographic sense that includes the devout, the lax, the lapsed, and even secular Muslims who just label themselves “Muslim” out of some family tradition. Obviously, it’s the narrow meaning of the term, a practitioner of Islam, that is most important. Sure, we should not equivocate between nominal Muslims and jihadists. What I’m worried about is obviously the jihadists – true Muslims who act on their duty to wage war against the Infidel.
****************************************************
This is where we meet for discusion and organizing. The two are related but different. If you've followed the earlier discussions you'll know we've decided to act as an organized group to fight the jihad waged against us by world-wide Islam. This is the meeting place for the Planned Action Co-ordinationg Committee, (PACC.) To sum up, briefly, we are a committee of voluteer leaders at Spencer's Jihadwatch. We are co-ordinating activities of members, readers, to act against the jihad in a planned fashion, not simply randomly and ineffectually. Some one had to take the initiative, and Susan B. and others stepped in. This is the result so far.
We are assessing our talents and abilities and our interests to find out what we can do for Human freedom and the right to live in security, what we can do individually in the fight against jihad that attempts through oil money, corruption, propaganda, internal subversion, and murderous and massive violence, to destroy our societies, our cultures, our nations, and both our futures and our past. what can we do? What, as individuals with talents and abilities, can we do alone and with others here? What can we plan effectively? What action will that be? We co-ordinate here with others at Jihadwatch, and now, here, we are a committee.
We have the choice before us to act or to decline from action. But now the choice exists concretely. We are here, and we can act. Our task then is to decide on a personal goal and to work with others on the acheivement of that goal.
Because I'm the first one here I wish to set today's agenda to begin things. I'd like us to discuss what we can do as individuals, what we're interested in doing, and then to form sub-committees with like-minded people.
In my case, I want to produce leaflets for the communities we can reach so easily. We have a head-start: Susan P., Interestd, and Mike are all capable and energetic and enthused. I hope from here that others will either join in our effort or that you will put your own interest down here and form your own sub-committee.
I have more to write on this topic, but for now I'll leave it to others.
sonofwalker: I, too, am interested in consolidated and concrete efforts against Islam. (And I don't just mean radical Islam). For years I was completely in the dark about Islam and just assumed it was a variation of Christianity or Judaism. When I started to read about Islam from honest sources, not those that just whitewash all the nasty parts, I was ASTONISHED and horrified.
In my opinion, just getting information to people about Islam (not hyped, just complete), will go a long way toward fighting it. Day before yesterday, I was thrilled to listen to a representative from MEMRI on the Sean Hannity. Although, to be honest, I am not sure I would have understood much of the discussion if I hadn't already been familiar with it from here.
Leaflets sound like a good idea. So do seminars (informal, of course) about the Koran and how Islam is more a political system than a religion.
I've read most of Spencer's "Onward Muslim Soldiers." What I would like to see would be a Guidebook for the person who wants to talk to someone about Islam (either in a group or one-on-one). I know quite a bit about it now (I think), but I would like to have talking points, as well as how to answer common statements thrown out by apologists to Islam. It is important to talk about Islam without sounding like a hatemonger or paranoid. For example, I have a copy of "Islam for Dummies" and it counters a woman's smaller inheritance than a man's because only the man has to support the family. Or the fact that Mohammed allegedly said a man should hit a woman with a feather which counteracts the Koran's verse about "scourging" women. I want to be prepared for discussions like this. I would be willing to work putting together common questions, arguments, etc. Also, perhaps dividing them up into sections spec. for "women" "intellectuals" "Christians".
Sorry to drone on, but you said you wanted ideas. For example, in the categories above, an intellectual would be interested to learn of Ibn Warraq's explanation of how few Muslims today understand the Arabic of the Koran, and how garbled it is. A Christian would be interested in direct comparisons between Mohammed and Jesus; Allah and God (Allah appearing to be quite a bit more bloodthirsty.)
Enough typed. I speak Spanish, for whatever that is worth.
So what shiva is telling us is that the mulsums who just do it to save their own necks are YELLOW COWARDS and will never stand and FIGHT THE MONSTERS!!!
If you are not with us then you are against us!!
Not just said by G.W.Bush?? Also said by Jesus!!
So what shiva is saying we can never count on any mulsum because if they think their neck is threaten they will take yours!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight, and Courage to Crush ALL islamic terrorist and ALL who Support them give the World some Balls to Stand and Fight them Amen
Hi Catherine. Nice of you to join us.
I can't stay online much longer at this time, though I'll return this evening to check the course of the discussion. If you will, it would be good for someone to go to the first post of Jan. 5 to put down a line of stars to mark our next starting point for tomorrow.
I'll address the topic of a guide to Islam for a moment: I began a short glossary in response to questions from a student at a local university I taught at in the inter-session last summer, eight pages of Arabic and Moslem terms. It wasn't enough for her, so I wrote another 14 pages. Now, the project ha taken on a life of its own, and it's around 135 pages on disc and another 100 pages of long-hand notes. It was in the course of my initial research that I first encountered Spencer's site. I fell ill during the fall, and to this time I'm still not well, but I am continuing to compile the glossary as I'm able. I find very useful and interesting the posts from Catherine and Hugh. If you want information on the spot, those two have volumes of it at Spencer's archives. My glossary, as brilliant as it is, needs more time yet. In the interim, Catherine and Hugh are gold mines of good info.
for the topic at hand, the details of organizing, let me suggest that you put down one idea that you feel committed to and that you would feel good about working with others to bring to completion and therefore to the public. My example is that i'm working with Mike, Ssuan P. and Interestd on leaflets. We contact each other directly now after having come together through our very ill friend Susan_b, who is down for a bit yet. I am happy to have you on board to help us create the details of a public propaganda effort in the form of leaflets and posters. The posters, keep in mind, have to be accessible to those of us who print from computers. Every detail has to be within the means of the least capale of us.
there are other issues that need immediate address: look at the case of Libby's Mom: she teaches her child at home, and no wonder; her child might well come home from school one day to tell her Jewish mother that she spent the day pretending to be a Moslem, and how is it that as a descendent of pigs and monkeys she was converted from Islam to Judaism as a baby. Who could tolerate that kind of monstrousness? Well, apparently many people do, and only because they don't "get it." Let's make sure they do. Some one should start a sub-committee here in this public forum, to enlist the help of other community leaders among us to begin the long proces of reclaiming our education system-- and the minds of our children-- from such hateful rubbish. Who here will say "I will work toward stopping the intrusion of Islam in the public schools in my community."? Some of us are indeed commited to stopping it. But you must come forward to ask others to do their parts as well. Not one of us can save this situation alone.
If you feel that you don't know enough about the facts of islam, join in close concert with others who might not know everything to the depth and degree that Robert and Hugh know Islam. but among a group you'll have many resourses to count on. I know far too much about islam, and i stll know little over-all. Catherine and Hugh save me from embarrassment daily. robert forms us as a group of potential activists with banks of information and contacts, and we have the skills and talents to make something extrordinarily vibrant and dynamic from that. You don't have to know everything. All you really need is enough knowledge to convince your friends and neighbors that something has gone dreadfully wrong, and that by coming here to robert's site they can begin to find out what wrong, and they can meet people here who feel the same way they do, and we can learn and act together to stop the madness of Islam that is surrounding us, penetrating our most valuable institutions, and is enctroaching into our very personal lives.
this is one place where we can gather our energies and abilities and start the long work of learning how to be community activists, people who speak to their neighbors with some assurance and knowledge that Islam is a serious threat, religion of pieces that it is.
But when you come here, leave something to do. Write, for example, that: "I want to stop the mosque being built next door to the soccer stadium, and I want people to come up with a useful leaflet that I can give to others so we can canvass our neighborhoods. Who here is willing to discuss that with me?" Or: "The carpet seller in my neighborhood is under indictment for supporting terrorism in the Middle East. Who else lives in my area, and who is willing to pass out leaflets exposing this terrorist supporter in front of his chain of stores across the state of Texas?" Or: "Ministers in Australia are arrested for quoting the Koran. Whow in my church is willing to pass out fliers to friends and neighbors to protest this travesty of all thing Aussie?" Or: "The local cable company here is supporting the fascist Islamic tv channel on cable in our hometown. Who will come with me to try to inform the community of this?"
That's the sort of specificity I'd urge you toward. Your activity can be anything at all, and it need not be fancy, elaborate, expensive or televised to have a great impact. What we really ned is to reach the people we live among, our gfriends and neighbors. Invovle them, and they in turn will come here and involve others. In time and with effort, this movement will grow to be the ruling ethos of the world, including the Islamic world.
Yhere are many small details to enter into. I haven't got the time at the moment to go into anything more, but this is an open and democratic forum of adults who have proven themselves motivated and intelligent through the course of their posts here, so they, you, can carry on this discussion all day here, and again tomorrow we can do more at the next thread.
All I suggest at this point is that you be specific in your goals and in your requests for assistence and collaboration from others. Then, setting a clear, defined, and reasonable goal, having gathered those around who can work together effectively on a project, keep the rest of us informed of your work and progress.
I must leave you now, but i will return in the late evening to look over your comments. I correct and take off marks for poor spelling and grammar.
Former liberal WF & all other interested parties:
Right now PACC is somewhat coming together organization-wise. Susan and Son of Walker are currently coordinating things for us to ensure there's no redundancy in our activities, in addition to pursuing their own personal interests and roles within PACC. Right now we're asking interested parties to determine where their interests and skills lie, and from there we are breaking up into individuals and groups to handle different issues and duties. For instance, I'm working on a producing materials on the religious freedom issue, wherein we will discuss matters such as dhimmitude. I have also violunteered my services in physically producing the print materials since I own all the standard publishing industry software needed to produce professional quality leaflets and pamphlets with text, graphics and photographs (these can also be distributed electronically in PDF format). I will also be helping on the violence against women issue, but I really could use some help with that if anyone is interested (hint hint).
That's it from me for now. I'll monitor this thread for the next hour if anyone has any questions, etc.
Mike (and Sonofwalker),
Does your publishing software extend to 'sticky back' stickers? As I've mentioned before on other threads, I prefer the idea of stickers to leaflets because they can be put up anonymously and have the potential to be seen by many more people with less hassle or threat. (Especially if you live in certain European countries or, sadly, Australia, it seems.)
I will be working on the text for stickers and will forward sample texts to SusanB for feedback. Ideally, I want the stickers to attract the attention of ordinary folks rather than preaching to the converted.
A question: is there any objection to putting the website address of JW or DW on stickers or leaflets? Would there be any legal consequences from doing this? I'm sure none of us want to create unnecessary problems for Mr Spencer.
One last point. Someone mentioned targetting churches with leaflets. That's fine, but how about aiming leaflets at members of the armed forces and veterans' organizations? If they have served in Iraq or the first GW, they are likely to be pre-disposed to our message, and may well have experiences, ideas, advice etc to contribute.
Sonofwalker, thanks for your relentless energy and determination! I agree with all your proposals, with the sole exception of the name 'Proaporia', which sounds too obscure and baffling, and lacks the all-important acronym essential for successful media attention (CIA, FBI, MGM, CGI, CAIR etc...)
Benelux-
If you can figure out how to print out the stickers or get some copy place to output them for you, I can help you with the rest.
Do you have Susan B's e-mail address so you can contact me?
Benelux-
I have to leave and won't be back in these threads. You can contact me through Susan or we can resume this discussion tomorrow in the first January 5th thread.
I think your suggestion re. a name is prudent - perhaps we should consider a name that is more readily identifiable.
Hi everyone,
Sorry to be out of commission right when we are getting started, but, it's better now.
Update:
Mike has the freedom of religion information and is working on putting that together.
Suzi has pulled all the information together concerning the new immigration vote that is coming up. Still need someone to put all of it together with facts and figures on how many OTM, (other than Mexicans) have crossed the border.
And the amount of illegals still here, where abouts--unknown, purpose for being here--unknown.
Mom and Libby'smom are looking into Islam in the public school system---this will go to Rublev, for mass e-mailings and letters to the Secretary of Education.
Greg and Chuck are looking for "friendly news programs, radio and web sites, we can send information to and hopefully get Robert on them.
Rikki is pulling together information on the "hate Speech" law in England, so we can look at that and also getting information on who we might be able to endorse there.
We still need someone else in the U.K. to look up "friendly news sites".
Need a volunteer to look up Sharia law in Canada, put something together showing what cause and effect this will have on Canadian laws.
Son of walker is reworking his flyers and they should be done soon.
Still need someone to work on womens rights in Islam. Highlight the lack of and the abuse, ie, honor killings, female mutilations, stonings, etc.
This will go to all the major women's rights groups.
Also, need someone to work on the gay issues in Islam. I'd like to send this out to Act Up.
They will take it and forward the information along to their various groups.
Someone mentioned getting the VFW's involved. Could we have someone look into that for us?
I believe it was Informed Christian?
Another thing I'd like to get to tie into Islam in the schools is a list of college professors that have written, made speeches promoting Islam in the schools, calling for the end of Isreal or have known terrorist ties.
Also, we need to get more of the posters in the U.K. in touch with Rikki, so we can get everything organized there.
I also need to hear from the posters from the Netherlands to let me know what you would like to do there and what we can forward over to you to get you started.
Australia, same thing, let me know what info you need.
Contact me at Susan_b356@yahoo.com
Susan -
"Also, need someone to work on the gay issues in Islam. I'd like to send this out to Act Up.
They will take it and forward the information along to their various groups."
Peter Tatchell, an Australian (I think) gay activist in the UK has been one of the few people in Europe brave enough to get out and demonstrate against hate-spewing muslim clerics, and also against the new anti-'religious hate' legislation
.
I think his group is called OUTrage. I just found a personal website for him at:
http://www.petertatchell.net/
You should definitely put him on your list for info packs etc. Also he has some muslim-related articles on his website that may be of interest.
Get well soon!
I live in Canada and I am willing to help. I am computer literate. I'm a programmer and am fairly comfortable with some software packages (Photoshop, etc).
I will tell you now that I am not in anyway good at speaking (especially public) and am not a leader. I'm a great follower and not afraid to say what I believe to be true. I would be more than happy to hand out fliers and even create some. I know why I am against Islam, but I can not speak to others without sounding like I really don't have a clue. I forget words mid sentence and things like that.
I'm not looking for sympathy, I just want you know my limitations. Use me as you need.
My wife just looked over my shoulder and thinks I'm a nut for getting into this. She doesn't believe that Islam is a threat (they can't take over a country/government). Like I said, I know precisely why they are a threat, I just can't get my point across.
Anyway, be that as it may, use me.
I'm willing to fight for my family, friends, country and culture (even if they don't see the issues). Let's get it on.
I'm willing to fight for my family, friends, country and culture (even if they don't see the issues). Let's get it on.
Posted by: Dana at January 6, 2005 06:07 PM
Thank You
And you are beter off then me I am not computer savey??
Susan B you get 10 gold stars!!
and hope you are well!!
The Books I have handed out are working and people are talking things are moving we are busybodys!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL islamic terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat and give the World Balls to Stand and Fight them Amen
Dana writes:My wife just looked over my shoulder and thinks I'm a nut for getting into this. She doesn't believe that Islam is a threat (they can't take over a country/government). Like I said, I know precisely why they are a threat, I just can't get my point across.
Welcome aboard Dana and thanks for your activism,I hope you will share with your wife what you come across through this site in regards to Sharia law and the Dihmitude towards woman in general so she might be able to see for her self how demeaning these scum are holding woman as hostages and possesions.
Let me share with you about last night where my son(10) and I attended an A-10 college basketball game where while the singing of the National Anthem was playing as I heard some straggling and dreary voices singing in the background behind us I started to weep because I knew it was the 2 gentlemen who had come in behind us struggling to get to their seats, they were holding their Veteran's ball caps over their hearts singing, oblivious to nothing else my son tugged my shirtsleeve asking whats wrong dad.
God Bless everyone here and about as we try and do whatever necessary to preserve the Rights granted us from the host of the Starry Skies and thanks for listening to my little story.
Dana writes:My wife just looked over my shoulder and thinks I'm a nut for getting into this. She doesn't believe that Islam is a threat (they can't take over a country/government). Like I said, I know precisely why they are a threat, I just can't get my point across.
Welcome aboard Dana and thanks for your activism,I hope you will share with your wife what you come across through this site in regards to Sharia law and the Dihmitude towards woman in general so she might be able to see for her self how demeaning these scum are holding woman as hostages and possesions.
Let me share with you about last night where my son(10) and I attended an A-10 college basketball game where while the singing of the National Anthem was playing as I heard some straggling and dreary voices singing in the background behind us I started to weep because I knew it was the 2 gentlemen who had come in behind us struggling to get to their seats, they were holding their Veteran's ball caps over their hearts singing, oblivious to nothing else my son tugged my shirtsleeve asking whats wrong dad.
God Bless everyone here and about as we try and do whatever necessary to preserve the Rights granted us from the host of the Starry Skies and thanks for listening to my little story.
Thanks Chuck,
I don't think you, I or any of us here need worry about ourselves and Islam, but for the sake of your son and all the youngsters just starting out, we better not fail.
If anyone is interested. I found this tonight.
Join the International Campaign against setting up Shari'a court in Canada
http://www.petitiononline.com/pasc1361/petition.html
Dana
It's only a matter of a few days, and look at us now. I am proud to be a part of this group.
to fulfil my pledge, tomorrow i will contact those I can who are computer literate so we can have up and out asap a leaflet on Islam and children. I have stacks of copy on suicide children, and a picture of a baby dressed up in a bomb vest that makes me hysterical from anger.
Mike and I, Susan B and Susan P, Dana (happy to meet you,) and Benelux, (who has often expressed interest in this project, from at least as far back as Oct.,) wil put our heads together with the rest of you and we'll come up with a series of hand-outs over the next month or so that we should be able to mix and match: on "Women and Islam," and if it's not too sickening but is still shocking enough to grab and hold the public's attention, I have a series of three pictures of a woman being hanged from a crane; pictures of what shari'a really is, not "sharia lite," such as some fool in Canada imposed on the women of Ontario recently; and pictures to go with anything else we care to cover, from homosexuals on (show)trials, such as they do frequently in Egypt; whippings, beating, beheadings, and abject poveryt in oil rich nations. In time, on any occassion, whether it be a free-speech issue in Australia, a murder in the Netherlands, or a terrorist outrage in Malaysia, we will have copy and graphics on line ready to hit the streets at the instant.
So, my project is to co-ordinate with Mike, our Susans, Dana, Benelux and anyone else who cares to join us, to start pouring text and graphics into the computer for those who know the chants to produce us some magic by waving the feathered bones over the sealed boxes.
Yes, aside from the hard stuff like math and spelling and computer stuff and stuff I'm kind of smart. but you know that. Right?
Catherine has provided us with lots of copy on all the topics we can ever cover, and I wish to thank her for that effort over these long months I've been here. I'll sort through more of it to look for great quotes, and I'll go through Mike in the morning so he can pass on his work to you so that we can start doing whatever is reasonable and prudent in the way of informing the public of Spencer's site, of jihad generally, and the threat and evil of Islam.
As far as Proaporia goes, well, ok, so maybe not everybody speaks classical Greek. We can come up with something that does cover all of us, and I look forward to rolliing my eyes at your awful Latin words.
I'll be back tomorrow to read more of our progress report. This is great, and I am really happy and--well, 'nuff said.
Dana,
You are most welcome. Please, e-mail me at susan_b356@yahoo.com, send me your contact information and we'll get you going on a project.
I've addressed this issue on a couple of different threads, but I'm going to do so one more to get the point across.
for those that have seen it already.....SORRY!
After being away for a few days, I'm just catching up on some of the issues.
I'd like to state the following:
First, in no way do we advocate any form of violence. That is NOT what this group is about. It's about getting information out to the public. It's about letting our law makers know, that they are being watched on how they vote on issues of the public safety.
It's about protecting our most valuable resources---OUR CHILDREN.
It's about my rights as a woman to freely express myself in whatever manner I choose to do so.
It's about defending the bloodiest piece of paper ever written, our Constitution. And by that I mean, the blood of the men and women who have died to ensure that we can live in freedom. Don't let that be for nothing.
It's about continueing to be able to live in peace and worship however I choose to.
Would I go to jail for this? YES! Would I like going to jail for this? NO! But sometimes you have to draw a line as to how much you, personally are willing to lose.
Some will say, "It's not that bad yet", and they'd be right. But "Yet" is the operative word here. If you go to CAIR'S homepage, you will find a list of lawsuites and pending actions. Each one is designed to limit our abilities to protect ourselves. If they are successful, it will open the door to the very people who would bring about the "YET".
You cannot be jailed for telling the truth. You cannot be jailed for informing the public of the dangers coming your way.
In the words of Court Justice William Rehnquist:
"At the heart of the First Amendment is the recognition of the fundamental importance of the free flow of ideas and opinions on matters of public interest and concern.... The freedom to speak one's mind,'" he continued, quoting from another Supreme Court decision called Bose v. Consumers Union , "is not only an aspect of individual liberty ? and thus a good unto itself ? but also is essential to the common quest for truth and the vitality of society as a whole.'"
"History reveals that, as often as not, the great First Amendment battles have been fought by our cultural rejects and misfits, by our communist-agitators, our civil rights activists, our Ku Klux Klanners, our Jehovah's Witnesses, our Larry Flynts."
The United States is:
the oldest constitutional democracy in the world. The great resiliency of the American Constitution is its capacity for growth, and that capacity is nourished by our abiding faith in tolerance, even for the intolerant. We have wagered our salvation not on our collective capacity to elevate public discourse by controlling it but on our collective capacity to discover truth through the free, unregulated trade of ideas.
I suggest to those that are concerned about what we are doing, watch our progress, read up on First Amendment rights:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Amendment I, The Bill of Rights
Read the relevent case law:http://www.epic.org/free_speech/
And look around you, think about the everyday things you value, ask yourself, "How important is my life and the lives of my children, family, friends?"
***********JW UNITED******
Here's my contribution. So that we can all meet and blog at one spot without endless searching and scrolling, I've created the following site for JW United:
http://jwunited.blogspot.com/
Here is my email address: Adjusting@aol.com.
We are going to have to get organized and it's my thought that by having one blogspot to go to, we won't get lost in a sea of other posters at JW (although I love them all except naseem)
Hope to see you there. And hope that I'm not overstepping my boundaries.
Best regards,
Just Linda
Awesome Linda.
How do you post a message there?
BTW, shall we move to the Jan. 5th "Marine who surfaced in Lebanon after purported kidnapping missing again" thread? I believe sonofwalker and others will be looking for everyone there.
I'll dash off a line of stars and we'll continue our conversation there.
Linda- Could you explain how to post at that thread? Perhaps we can then move off to the blog you set up. Thanks!
Looks like the blog is up and running and comments are being posted. I guess we'll all have to fool around with the site to get it to where we want it to be. I now gladly step back and let ya'll take the lead. Linda.