Brit arrested in Iraq tied to U.S. jihad group

"Another bites the dust"

Lets hope we can obtain convictions.

Alleged,suspected,or just plain maybe; here we have "supposive" terrorism connected operatives who are scheming and helping to kill American troops in Iraq in Queens just over the East River from downtown New York, and we can`t round these guys up;I tell you;the PC gang is going to get a lot of us killed, not that they haven`t already!! How many points of evidence do the authorities need to start locking these guys up? I say let`s get too hookin and bookin, then sort out the evidence for prosecution. God forbid if the left, and PC wingnut crowd is able to dampen the effect of the Patriot Act when it comes up for review from its enacted time span.

We also need to start playing hard ball with the street gangs like MS-13 (La Mara Salvatrucha) and 18th street, let alone the Bloods, and the Crypts who are all over this country peddling drugs and now we are beginning to see some connections to al-Qaeda operatives of all things ( hello homeland security). Most local law enforcement agencies have very limited resources to deal with these kind of activities. It is time to step up to the plate and deal with these people head on -- the PC crowd be dammed!!!

I am surprised that people still take Omar Bakri Mohammed seriously after is ridiculous rants telling people that 9/11 was justified and more should happen. The vast majority of British muslims have seen OBM for what he is, and are working closely with the authorities to get this guy out of the UK.

Shapps:

I sure would like to believe that the muslim majority is reflecting your comments ,but polls in the past have not shown that kind of responce from the majority of muslims --fundamentalists will see you as an apostate and what about the 6th duty of every muslim? Can you ,and the moderate muslims denounce the militant tenets of the Quran; such as 9:29?

british muslim = pakistani parents ?

Nartesh C:

The muslim has only one allegiance, and that is to islam. The 'British' is merely for moving around the West with ease, and the provision of welfare benefits.

:D

British because I was born in Britain. I do not have Pakistani parents and that is a bit of a generalisation. Secondly I do not claim benefits.

Back to the British Muslim thing, I am proud of being British esp for the freedoms it has afforded me and my family. I am sad to see that so called Islamic countries refuse to afford similar freedoms.

Onto Apostasy? Only 'The Supreme Being' has the right to judge my faith. No other human can decide what the beliefs in my heart are and how sincere they are. As to the majority of muslims agreeing with me, I tend to disagree. You will find groups like these are usuallythe loudest and therefore create the greatest furore. Unfortunately the silent majority do not have time to think about these things. But by isolating and targetting them we are simply pushing them away.

SOME scholars state that Jhad is the 6th pillar of Islam.

As for verse 09:29. I agree the literal translation is "Fight....".
While there are texts that explicitly indicate the absolute order to fight, there are others that restrict it to whether it is for the purpose of staving off an aggression, preventing an expected aggression or making it a punishment for violating a covenant. Allah Almighty says: “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits”. (2: 190). And says: “But if they violate their oaths after their covenant and taunt you for your faith, fight thee the chiefs of unfaith". (9:12). In fact, the previous verse specifies the meaning of the verses: “And fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together.” (9: 36), And: “And slay them wherever ye catch them.”

Oh I forgot..with regards militancy in the Quran, I believe it is an inherent trait of all Monotheistic religions.I was looking through my copy of the King James Bible and found this in Deuteronomy, Chapter 7:

1: When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2: And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4: For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5: But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

And in Deuteronomy Chapter 20:

10: When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11: And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
12: And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
13: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
15: Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

SHAPPS
You fall into the common mistake of Muslims - THE OLD TESTAMENT relates THE HISTORY OF THE JEWS and
THE NEW TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ALL ABOUT,peace and turning the other cheek etc or so I was taught. Will let other members debate this as I am not a Christian.
However I should appreciate your following answers to:
1]Do you believe you will go to Paradise after performing Jihad and killing Infidels?
2]Do you believe exploding Suicide Bombers are rewarded by 72 Virgins in Paradise?
3]How do Imans explain the unending supply of virgins and do they get pregnant?
4]Do Female Suicide Bombers get rewarded with 72 young Male studs?
5] Why should Muslim women go around in burkas etc when the men usually wear suits?
6]Why is a Muslim Man allowed four wives at a time
when a woman isn't?

Shapps,
there is a difference between a culture nearly 4000 years ago understanding/justifying events as in your Deuteronomy quotes, and a post Christian culture like islam, which only started 630 years after Christ, and which did not reflect from the getgo, the growth in perception and understanding that the ministry of Christ demonstrates had developed in judeochristianity. The new islam insisted that events must ever be understood and justified as they had been 2000 years before.
The culture that lived Deuteronomy had, 1500 years later, lived Christ; to that judeochristian society, the messenger, 600 years later again, was a brutal throwback to the early,less aware years.
And islam refuses to this day to move forward, because, scripturally, every word and act of the messenger was determined by allah, so nothing can change.
The 'origin' society for it all, hebrews, jews, christians, cherish what was written, long before your messenger, by our people, and cherish that we have been granted the wisdom, over the thousands of years since Deuteronomy, to better understand how to live, how to serve. Thus we reject your Deuteronomy quotes as templates for todays behaviour, as we rejected them 630 years before your messenger.
Our problem is that moslems cannot reject what the messenger said is rightful behaviour, which behaviour will inevitably bring moslems into conflict with the rest of the world community, as it has for the last 1300 years.
The messenger got it wrong, the manual,the quoran, is fatally flawed.
And you ordered to follow it, hook, line and sinker.

And you are ordered to follow it...

Shapps,
another approach.
JudeoChristianity has developed over 5000 years plus plus, with input from thousands, discussion, changes in understanding, changes in ritual, all still ongoing. 5000 years of history to learn from, and learn how best to serve G-d.

The main book of islam all comes over a few years from one person, a person who kills, who lies, who cheats, who likes little girls in bed -and is perfect for all time.

Do you ever wonder why the books of the Christians and the Jews never mention the islam of your messenger, whereas the quoran is constantly tangling with Christians and Jews, and how to treat them and why, and what they had done wrong to deserve such treatment.

Because, Shapps, islam did not exist until your messenger - it is a new religion ! started thousands of years after the hebrew, jew, christian abrahamic religion started, and postulating the insane thought that hebrew, jews, christians had got their ancient history wrong, and he, your messenger, knew better.

Shapps:

Deuteronomy is from the old testament,Jesus`s ministry bring`s us the new testament that has been dated by numerous scholars to have been fully coveted by the followers of Jesus Christ within the dates 40 A.D. and 80 A.D.

It is clear that Mohammed drew on versus attributed to the arch angel gabriel from the new testament. Example: he complained that the Bible had removed the right to stone an idolater. however that was in the old testament. There are hundreds of examples of where Mohammed simply changed the written words of the bible to suit him .

This is certainly helping me to understand the differences between Christianity and Judaism. So the Old Testament has little to do with Christianity.

I guess Muhammad stole a lot from Jesus and the Bible and also told us to respect him as a Prophet. Not to abuse Jesus. BTW, Muhammad was illiterate, as a lot of Christian & Muslim Scholars say. So changing the written word is tough.

In terms of whether Islam is new, it isn't. The word Islam, despite many opinions to the contrary means 'Submission to God', and the word Muslim means 'One who submits to God'. Setting aside semantics and what language we use, the concept of submitting to God is a central tenet in Judaism, Christianity & Islam.

So We have taught thee (Muhammad) the inspired message, "Follow the ways of Abraham the true in faith, and he joined not gods with God."
Surat-ul Nahl (16):123

Say: "Verily, my Lord hath guided me to a way that is straight, -- a religion of right, -- the path (trod) by Abraham the true in faith, and he (certainly) joined not gods with God."
Surat-ul An'am (6):161

Say: "God speaketh the truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans."
Surat-u Ali Imran (3):95

They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (to salvation)," Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the religion of Abraham the true, and he joined not gods with God.
Surat-ul Baqara (2):13 5

Who can be better in religion that one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend.
Surat-un Nisaa (4):125

And as to whether Islam is really any different to Judaism or Christianity:

And before this was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy; and this Book (Qur'an) confirms (it, the book of Moses) in the Arabic tongue.
Surat-ul Ahqaf (46):12
Nothing is said to thee (Muhammad) that was not said to the Apostles before thee, that thy Lord has at His command (all) forgiveness as well as a most grievous penalty.
Surat-u Fussilat (41):43

The same religion has He (God) established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah ... and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein.
Suirat-ush Shura (42):13

Say (Muhammad): I am no bringer of newfangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you.
Surat-ul Ahqaf (46):9

To answer Morgane's questions:

1]Do you believe you will go to Paradise after performing Jihad and killing Infidels?
The determination of who goes to Paradise is not my decision. If Allah permits then it will be so. But performing Jihad is not atonement for sins. In the same way that a believer in One God who does not necessarily embrace Islam can also go to Paradise for his/her deeds.

2]Do you believe exploding Suicide Bombers are rewarded by 72 Virgins in Paradise?
I think this is irrelevant and if that if 72 virgins is your reason for wanting to go to Paradise then you are a little misguided.

3]How do Imans explain the unending supply of virgins and do they get pregnant?
See above

4]Do Female Suicide Bombers get rewarded with 72 young Male studs?
Again, irrelevant. What is this fixation with virgins and studs?

5] Why should Muslim women go around in burkas etc when the men usually wear suits?
Women and Men in Islam have been instructed to cover parts of their body which are considered attractive. In terms of a man... from the navel down to the knees. In terms of a woman, from head to toe. Why so much for a woman? I used to wonder that until I met a woman with beautiful hair, a wonderful shape and beautiful legs. And my thoughts suddenly were not about doing good and were simply about how beautiful this woman was and how we could come together.

6]Why is a Muslim Man allowed four wives at a time when a woman isn't?
A muslim man is only allowed a second wife in exceptional circumstances. It was actually strongly discouraged but as it was the norm in society 1400 years ago a limit of 4 was put on with strict conditions. First rule is that the first wife has to agree freely. This is abused by many muslim men, but this does not make it a right. In terms of why a muslim woman cannot have more than 1 husband. Have you ever known a man to be happy to be 'sharing his woman' with another man? I doubt that is ever the case. In fact from personal experience, I have seen that in today's society, the reasons for discouraging multiple partners are even more apparent simply as I cannot have another running off with my credit cards!!!

Shapps and Morgane:

As Bernard Lewis puts it, unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism is a reletavist faith and not triumphalist. Any understanding of Judaism as a "militaristic" or otherwise aggressive belief is fundamentally wrong.

5] Why should Muslim women go around in burkas etc when the men usually wear suits?
Women and Men in Islam have been instructed to cover parts of their body which are considered attractive. In terms of a man... from the navel down to the knees. In terms of a woman, from head to toe. Why so much for a woman? I used to wonder that until I met a woman with beautiful hair, a wonderful shape and beautiful legs. And my thoughts suddenly were not about doing good and were simply about how beautiful this woman was and how we could come together.

Posted by: Shapps at January 9, 2005 05:32 AM

So the mulsums think womens faces are ugly??

LOL

Only the Saudis think that the whole woman is beautiful??

SAD THAT YOU HAVE NO SELF CONTROL???

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight and Courage to stay the course to Victory [FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Threat give the World Courage to Stand up to Fight them Amen