Bush: Relief work giving Muslims new view of U.S.

It's really great that the US is trying to change its image, since the napalming of innocent civilians in Fallujah, and the 3,000,000 baby-deaths resulting from UN sanctions, as well as the evidence of sickness and perversion in US society as displayed in pictures of Abu Ghraib may have somewhat tarnished its glowing reputation. Also, the fact that innocent Burmese villagers have reported rape and brutalisation by a US oil company trying to dig a pipe line near their village has not done a great deal to improve people's idea of the US's benevolence.

Yes, clearly the president is seriously delusional about the reality of the the Islamic world's appreciation of our efforts.

Accordingly, I think now that the White House is feeling all warm and fuzzy about the phantom good will of the Islamic world, I think they should increase Islamic immigration into our country as a sign of appreciation of Moslem "changing perceptions".

What a dope. I'm going to email the link to Jihad Watch White House.

White Queen

Care to comment of Islamic savagery which dwarfs any intentional violence that has enevitably occurred by by any nation that ever exixted?

The point of matter should be intent, Islam _intends_ to conquer, subjucate and destroy all non_Moslems. America in your example has not used napalm to my knowledge intentionally on Iraqi civilians and the U.S. clearly is very careful to avoid unnecessary death and destruction.

The rapes you are talking about I have not heard of. Can you supply a link?

By the way, the UN in the Congo has been involved in child rapes which were committed most frequently by the Moslem UN contingent and other massive sexual miscounduct.

UN Debacle in Congo

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20041219-095248-1062r.htm

Whitequeen,

Wake-up and smell the coffee :)

Fighting for YOUR FREEDOM (wherever your delusional self is located)...in Afghanistan

Andrew:

Whitequeen is a troll who thinks the bloggers here have never heard of oil-for-food and cannot link the alleged results of the UN-backed sanctions to the man who used them to systemically starve his domestic enemies as did his hero, Joe Stalin.

As low things sunk at Abu Graib after the invasion, that was a picnic compared to the days when it was Saddam's shop. What about the state-sanctioned stonings and other acts of barbarity perpetrated against the largely female citizens of various Muslim countries by the mad mullahs and imams?

White Queen

You mock the benevolence of the United States. Well, the fact that Iraq was not wiped off the face of the earth should be proof enough for you of our benevolence. Lord knows we have the capability. Instead we have tried to do something to improve the way of life over there. I hate to think if it were the other way around. Lord knows there would be no mercy for the infidels. Personally, I feel that until those mullahs and ayatollahs are run out by their own people, there should no U.S. lives sacrificed. They (the civillian population) have not earned the privilege if they themselves have not recognized the benefits of freedom. Until the powers that run this country realize that, there will be more U.S. casualties. If I were in charge, we would be leveled Iraq, sliced through Syria, and bombarding Tehran this morning. Some in the government feel as I do. Be thankful White Queen that we are in the minority and that the "benevolent" people that are in charge are ignoring the beheadings, kidnappings, and carside bombings. I certainly would not.

>But alas: the President, by all indications, does not read Jihad Watch.

Well according to the President's own admission, he doesn't go to the media for news. He doesn't read the newspaper. I'd be absolutely astounded to hear that he even gets on the Internet much less that he would read anything on it. It isn’t surprising that such an insularly approach would produce such drivel.

f.g.

This comment might not go down to well --- but Bush is an idiot.
Has he learnt nothing about islam/muslims in his 4 years as president??? It seems not.

Like most of us on here I'm glad Bush won the elections, but for me he was always the lesser of two evils, just as Blair is for me in the UK elections (although I'm strongly considering voting BNP, UKIP or Conservative this year... the right wing alternatives to Blair).

It is Blair and Bush who single-handedly gave the public the idiotic idea that islam is a religion of peace, without doing any kind of historical or cultural study into the religion. Would the president or Prime minister be allowed to critisize islam on national TV??? Perhaps not, but painting it as a nice , harmless religion, is constructive to nothing or no-one.

And now Bush makes another severe error in judgement "the Tsunami aid efforts will revamp our image in the muslim world...." is the message. How wrong could he be???

This perhaps further weakens our image in the muslim world. As we all know, muslims see generosity as a weakness, and the fact that we are dedicating resources to an enemy will surely add to this ridiculous muslim logic.
Of course their logic is profoundly distorted, I mean any other country in dire need of aid from the west, would be grateful, but once again we see that the mindframe of muslims is completely fucked up compared to that of normal human beings.

Maybe if these people we are risking our necks for, and donating fortunes to saving, didn't have frazzled lumps of fungus in their heads where a brain should be, their countries would prosper enough to get themselves out of such shit, but as it stands they RELY on us, this we should start using to our advantage a little more instead of firing on all cylinders to help, we should start showing them how truely screwed they would be without the help of the "Great Satan"!!!

Again we see the very same "Pollyanna" thinking that allowed the Islamofasist attacks of 9/11 to succeed. We could not get it through our heads that people could ever use commercial airliners full of innocents to bomb buildings also full of innocents. But they did.

Thinking that any help we give to the Muslim nations hit by the Tsunami will be appreciated is ignorant. Reactions will vary from hostility and distrust to feeling entitled to the goods and money, either because we (non Muslims) were created to serve the master race of Muslims and/or "the Christians" and "the Jews" are more than likely responsible for the disaster in the first place.

We are dealing with a mass of ignorant people being fed by ignorant barbarians. The People hear what the Mullahs want them to hear and nothing more.

The only way to deal with this mass delusion is to contain it as soon as possible and as tightly as possible. The Muslim people need to deal with their religion in their own way.

Historically if we do contain them and render them ineffectual in attacking Non Muslims they will simply revert to killing each other.

Sincerely,

Susanc
"Ex Pollyanna"

Well said Rikki.

Susanc is right!

Containing it however will probably cost more U.S. lives than eliminating it altogether.

It must be that Christian perspective Mr. Bush has, which is a good thing, but in the case of islam cannot be applied.

There is no good to found in the islamic political system of hate, islam history tells us all that they get get out of bed each day to destroy anything decent they find.

People raised in a Christian society are not able to accept the fact that islam is 180 degrees the opposite, what good people believe is evil, islam believe's is good. And vice-versa.

If you say this to most people in America they simply do not comprehend.

The anti-islamist PDF files are now available for downloading at http://www.6thcolumnagainstjihad.com/graphics.htm (notice no "L" after htm)...

Several are there now, and as more files become available, they will be posted for you to download.

PLEASE go to this link, download the PDFs, and send copies to everyone you can. One picture can speak a thousand words, and these graphics make it quite easy to begin telling the story that must be told!

Sid

Whitequeen-
Let's address your post 1 charge at a time:

1) The Coalition, at great risk to the lives of their own troops, made no secret of when they would enter Fallujah - the civilian populace was notified when Coalition troops would be entering Fallujah, and the civilian populace was given ample time to vacate the battlezone before the assault began. To state Coalition troops simply went into Fallujah and started deliberately napalming an unsuspecting civilian populace that had no time to seek refuge elsewhere is baseless distortion of what truly happened in Fallujah.
2)Who is responsible for the imposition of the sanctions on Iraq? SADDAM HUSSEIN. Had Saddam fulfilled the commitments he made at the end of Gulf War I, there would never have been any sanctions.
3) The American public, by and large, was shocked and outraged with what occurred at Abu Ghraib (if you lived in the US you would surely be aware of this). What occurred there does not reflect on the attitudes of most Americans.
4) I "Googled" 'US Oil companies Burma rapes' and could not document your allegations. Once again, are you going to make the untenable accusation that the actions of a few criminals are somehow representative of the entire American civilian populace? That's quite a stretch, isn't it?
It's not hard to see by your baseless and misguided statements that you are merely another anti-American nihilist who puts their politics before their facts.
As for US "benevolence", the American people have gladly given of themselves to assist the victims of the tsunami, despite the ingratitude that has been expressed by the xenophobes in the region. Of course, that's not something YOU would care to focus on, is it?
Try not to gag on the Hate, not that it's my problem.

The US does not have anything to be sorry for. Muslims have brought all this on themselves and it's just getting started.

As for napalming falluja it never happened, but it should have. To get the insurgents we need to "drain the swamp" which means that the civilians need to go down with the terrorists that swim amongst them.

The US is way to PC and soft on this and if it weren't so iraq would already be domesticated.

What a left wing pansy PC liberal bleeding heart pussy fool whitequeen is.

The US is an empire and it time to start acting like one. Can't win wars by listening to crybabies like this.

Infidel benevolence has been demonstrated again and again. It counts, in the end, for nothing, or almost nothing. It has already been interpreted, by those who are fervent in their beliefs, as simple trickery. There was some gratitude among Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo, but that merely reflected the tepid state of their Muslim fervor; had they been better Muslims (and thanks to Saudi money and influence, some of them have become better Muslims), they would not have felt any gratitude. The same is true in Iraq, where the United States removed a monstrous regime -- a regime about which the Arab League had not uttered a syllable of protest. If Kurds are grateful to Americans, it is despite their being Muslims, and that they feel their Kurdishness. If some in the rulng elite are not merely uttering words of feigned or fleeting gratitude, to America, it is because they had lived for 10, 20, 30, 40 years abroad, and, many of them, have become Westernized and even more secular in outlook. But al-Sistani is not grateful to America; he supports the elections only because, you see, he knows his forces will win. This is not faith in democracy; it is faith in the fact that he has more votes. End of story.

This belief that we have to "do something" to make Muslims like us, and that if we "do something" (foreign aid as a disguised jizya, throwing Israel to the wolves, failing to curb Muslim migration to Infidel lands, falling all over ourselves to change our own political and social arrangements to meet Muslim demands, even infringing on the rights of free speech) they will "like us" is really -- Fantasyland. Or perhaps some other part of Disneyworld, where Goofy calls the shots.

Whitequeen's comments are important (but 3 mil baby deaths? sorry, not that high), but unfortunately that was a different administration. It would be like blaming the Weimar Republic for the 'administration' which came after (no allusion on which of Bush or Clinton would represent the 'administration which came after', though I notice that Bush wasn't the one using starvation tactics on Iraq).

Geoff

I think President Bush understands full well the demographics, and the attitudes that prevail in Islam against us infidels.

As President though; it is important for him to try an reflect a positive tone if at all possible, even though he may personally feel quite differently about some of his comments that are made for world consumption. His words are chosen carefully in the real world of political diplomacy. There is no doubt in my mind that Our brilliant Secretary of State Colin Powell also understands the thinking and attitudes of Islam.

Their responsibility is enormous and they clearly realize that there are millions of muslims out there that would love to eliminate us kaffirs,infidels,zionists,dhimmis,non believers, and what have you. Unfortunatly they are sharing this planet with us just like North Korea.

Recall when the President referred to the North Korea,Iran, and Iraq as part of the axis of evil, and without question, he was no doubt absolutely right about that and sometimes it needs to be said, however there always exists the danger of creating to much polarization and that is not good either even though we see a relentless campaign of hate coming out of North Korea, and the Middle East against us and the civilized western countries we must make every effort possible to take the high ground when it comes to reducing the risks of all out wars.

People raised in a Christian society are not able to accept the fact that islam is 180 degrees the opposite, what good people believe is evil, islam believe's is good. And vice-versa.

If you say this to most people in America they simply do not comprehend.

Posted by: robhem at January 14, 2005 10:59 AM

robhem, you said it!!! Americans are woefully ignorant when it comes to Islam and if the seditious muslim forces in America have their way, the truth about Islam will be repressed and all who attempt to expose it will be persecuted as racists, bigots, and Islamophobes. The U.K. is on the verge of passing blasphemy laws which will make it illegal to criticize, objectively scrutinize, or reveal Islam's diabolical, insidious agenda, history, and doctrine. It will be interesting to see if these laws will prohibit muslim radicals from threatening to impose Sharia and encouraging European muslims to wage jihad in Europe. Probably not.

President Bush is indeed naÏve. One feels for him as we can see that he so badly wants to believe in the inherent goodness of all.

Gratitude?? I hardly think so! One can almost see and feel their disdain as they contemplate how Westerners fell over themselves to run and help the tsunami victims as they were baited by the U.N. and Western "progressives." They are laughing all the way to the bank knowing that Western military personnel will be forced out and they, the Muslim governments and jihadists will be able to manipulate the aid n.g.o.'s to get their hands on all that cash, for the greasing of palms is the only way that aid organizations are allowed to operate in that part of the world.

Alas, much of that cash and the help it will bring will not make it to the victims because of this practice and because the victims are far removed from the action and can only be reached by military helicopters. Perhaps the Indonesian government will persuade the U.S. government to give them a few and the spare parts they need for their attack jets in exchange for allowing help to be brought to victims. Hmmm. What a novel idea!

cross:

whitequeen is a muslim troll.

I hesitate to weigh in on this, but I find very disturbing the trend of posts to the effect that our efforts in tsunami relief are wasted. I'm extremely sympathetic to the argument for containment, for not wasting aid on corrupt governments who still won't support us, for halting immigration and for forcing these failed nations to face up their problems and the sources of those problems. Maybe it's the Christian heritage, that we care for those who need it because they are our brothers, whether or not they recognize it. Maybe it's the smugness in saying President Bush doesn't know as much as we posters here, when I think any cold assessment shows that he is as aware of these challenges as anyone here, with the difference that he has to work in the world of the actual, and achieve what can be achieved, not wish for what should be achieved.

Frankly, I don't give a damn what some corrupt minister in Jakarta says, I've seen more than enough to tell me that our efforts are tremendously appreciated on the ground. These are people who've been told by Arabs that Americans are devils. Now they've met Americans, and Americans are delivering angels. For all the bluster, the GAM doesn't dare lose what little credibility it has by threatening Americans delivering aid. And if our efficiency and care make the corrupt government in Jakarta look even worse, and encourage the desire for Acehnese independence even more, then that's all for the good, too.

I know Indonesians, devout muslims, who literally spit in anger when confessing to me, an American military man, their shame at what the "so-called Sunnis" are doing in Iraq. There is no love lost between Asian muslims and Arabs, and more than a little resentment that Arabs think they are the only ones who have any say about the nature and future of Islam. They despise Arab racism and misogyny, and don't get them started on Indian/Pakistani muslims unless you have hours to catalog their grievances. As Hugh has pointed out, if Islam consisted only of the 5 Pillars, no one would have any heartburn with muslims. But that personal-piety version of Islam, however divorced from the scriptural sources, is exactly what muslims in that part of the world were taught for generations. There is some distrust of Americans because the windbags tell them Americans are wicked, but when they meet us, they love us, and the windbags are openly mocked. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Since we can't kill 'em all, or convert 'em all, it's not a bad idea to win allies, especially among the people. Screw their self-appointed leadership, we'll never win them over. But down at the kampung, the ustaz has seen compassion and mercy in the Americans, and he won't forget it. In fact, I've had it suggested to me by asian muslims that we should just skip the governments altogether, and appeal directly to the kampung imams and ustazi. Fund trips to the states for them, let them talk to American muslims and learn for themselves that mosques aren't being burned to the ground, muslims aren't being lynched from lampposts. When the imam goes back to his kampung, he's the one the locals listen to, not the government minister or TV programs. Let the locals ask him why they have to live under corrupt regimes, and why Americans don’t.

If anything, we need to be far more assertive in the region. There are tens of thousands of orphans, children who even if adopted have no legal claims to any property under sharia. There are hundreds of thousands of acres of property that is now "dead" property, with no legal owner. That means the property reverts to the government, whatever that is in NW Aceh. Will it be sold by the "government?" Will local farmers or speculators quickly "develop" it, giving them the claim to the land under sharia? Will anyone protect the rights of the orphans to that property, or preserve it to allocate to the orphans as they mature? An American-established land office to ensure that the corrupt don’t make off with the land and the orphans have a means to register legal claims against parcels would be long remembered in that part of the world.

The government in Jakarta says they want to take the orphans and put them in boarding houses, known as pesantrens. Pesantrens range in quality from Pakistani madrassa to harmless though ineffective trade schools. And if we pressure the Arabs, meaning Saudi Arabia primarily, to spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars on tsunami relief--where will it go? It's not going to be cheap (for Indonesians, at least) to warehouse tens of thousands of orphans, so I'd make it very likely that Arab charity and zakat will be the funding, and as we know, the piper calls the tune. In ten years time, assuming an attitude of "let them deal with it," we'll be facing tens of thousands of disenfranchised young adults emerging from these pesantrens to become... what? Breeding stock and cannon fodder for extended jihad? Is that really what we want?

President Bush is not naive, however much he may sound like it in these articles. He is giving help to those who need it because it's the right thing to do. Good PR is only a secondary consideration. The malcontents of Indonesia will find ways to get their ravings in the press, but the millions who have water, food, clothes--anything at all, really--won't get quoted in the press. It doesn't happen here, why would it happen there? And President Bush has been clear that this is an effort conducted by nations and lead by the USA, not some vague international organization. They see US helos, US C-130s, US doctors and nurses running the hospitals, US soldiers delivering food and water.

So I agree with you on the need to stop wasting money on the ingrates, but don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Maybe we should tell the Egyptians that we'd love to send the $2b this year, but we found someone who needed it more and gave us less grief. But in any case, stop the posturing when millions of people who need immediate help get it, and will certainly remember it with gratefulness, and who will also remember that the whole world, including the whole ummah, stood by and bitched while the Americans delivered. They see the stories about Americans told by their would-be dictators revealed as lies, and the Arabs and the arab-lovers discredited. No good deed goes unpunished, but that doesn’t make President Bush’s effort either wrong or naïve.

I am actually surprised that imams haven't spun the aid given by infidel nations as payment of the jizya. They could then use this to explain why Islamic nations have contributed next to nothing for the aid relief.

whitequeen is a muslim troll.
Posted by: CGW [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2005 12:46 PM

Yes, i agree. I will ignore future trolls as to not become a (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)....

"trollhunters", or "trollbaiters". They willingly enter conflict when trolls emerge. Often, trollhunters are as disruptive as trolls. A single troll-post may be ignored, but if ten trollhunters "pounce" following a troll, they will drive the thread offtopic.

I certainly do not support the Wahhabis, and they are causing problems for everybody, including Muslims, worldwide. Bombing Tehran is not really a solution. You would only kill a lot of human beings. It's not an intelligent solution, as dear old Hitler found.

Anyway, here's the link to the article about the US accidently napalming Fallujah. I guess they packed it in their airplanes without realising what it was.

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14920109&method=full&siteid=106694&headline=fallujah-napalmed-name_page.html

Here's also a little resume of benevolent US intervention:

1898-1910: US seizes the Philippines from Spain. 600,000 Filipinos killed
1953: US/CIA arranges for the assassination of democratically elected Iranian president and replaces him with the Shah, who liked to drop his enemies out of helicopters into a lake of salt.
1954: Guatemala. CIA directs invasion after government nationalisess land belonging to US United Fruit company
1960-75 Vietnam. 2 million Vietnamese killed
1965: Indonesia: 1 million killed in CIA-assisted coup
1969-75: US carpet-bombs Cambodia, 2 million killed
1973: CIA overthrows democratically elected government in Chile. We all know what Pinochet was like.
1981-92: El Salvador: US troops and air power assist death squads. 75,000 killed
1989-90 Panama invaded, thousands of civilians killed.
1990-91 Gulf War: 100,000 Iraqis killed

To date in Iraq: 100,000 civilians killed. Saddam tortured his own people. Who helped Saddam into power: the CIA, which assisted with the assassination of the previously elected president who wanted to nationalise the oil. Saddam is a CIA puppet who went renegade.

Funny how all the bombing and invasion interests happen JUST where all the oil is. Or perhaps that's just coincidence.

Incidentally, I am aware enough not to tar all Americans with one brush, unlike a lot of people here who seem think that Muslims are one mass of mindless people. We've got to stop thinking in black and white. Evil is done by both sides. I'm not involved in hatred. Just facts.

You deal in propaganda, not facts, whitequeen.

whitequeen,
Are you a Muslim woman?
How do you feel about the thousands of forced marriages and the girls who commit suicide after being raped by their new husbands?

f.g.

White Queen:

Quoting figures as to how many where killed in war activities is a bit to shallow to say the least. You have chosen to not address the reasons for these battles or wars. By the way why didnt you mention the war with Japan,North Korea,Kosovo, and Germany

Now why dont you start listing wars and terrorist activities perpetrated by Islam and its Jihadist Ideologies throughout the world for the past 107 years as well; oh and please give a fair and objective explanation as to why these terrorist, and war actions where taken by Islam why your at it--- You know --that sort of kind of fair and balanced kind of thing!

White Queen:

Quoting figures as to how many where killed in war activities is a bit to shallow to say the least. You have chosen to not address the reasons for these battles or wars. By the way why didnt you mention the war with Japan,North Korea,Kosovo, and Germany

Now why dont you start listing wars and terrorist activities perpetrated by Islam and its Jihadist Ideologies throughout the world for the past 107 years as well; oh and please give a fair and objective explanation as to why these terrorist, and war actions where taken by Islam why your at it--- You know --that sort of kind of fair and balanced kind of thing!

Whitequeen posts: Funny how all the bombing and invasion interests happen JUST where all the oil is.

Well that certainly explains why we bombed Serbia during the Balkans conflict.

Yes facts. As an individual with a PhD in the life sciences I am also interested in facts. Lets start with the 100,000 casualty number cited for the war in Iraq. This number was linearly (not logarithmically) extrapolated from data collected by a poorly done survey completed by researchers who published their findings in the journal Lancet. This number in the simplest of terms is "bunk". We in the scientific community would more politely say "highly questionable". Anyone quoting this number should simply be ignored. A competent and concise review of the findings can be found at http://www.fumento.com/military/lancetscripps.html

I agree with the conclusions this author drew regarding the wildly extrapolated casualty number. It is obvious that the findings were published for one reason only--to influence the US elections. For some of us in science the use of "scientific findings" in this way brings up nightmarish scenarios reminiscent of the Lysenkoic theory of genetic inheritance in the Soviet Union which stymied genuine scientific research for decades.

Let's DO talk about American benevolence, shall we, whitequeen?
How's this for starters?

http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/sudan/darfur.html

"Bush: Relief work giving Muslims new view of U.S."

As Robert points out, t'ain't so. But since Bush is apparently convinced, I wish that he would take his thinking one step further, and ask himself, "If the Muslims are getting a new view of the U.S. because of the relief work, WHERE DID THE OLD VIEW COME FROM?"

An Internet troll is a person who sends duplicitous messages to get angry responses. The term derives from the phrase "trolling for suckers".

Weblogs — ...popular weblogs often make effective springboards for trolls, either as inflammatory comments or provocative entries...

Anonymous attention-seeking: The troll seeks to dominate the thread by inciting anger,...

Cry for help: ...trolling is an aggressive, confrontational way by which trolls seek a sort of tough love guidance in an anonymous forum.

No matter what dramaqueens motivation, ignoring the troll is best, dramaqueen is crazy.

More US benevolence:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/2/newsid_2547000/2547285.stm

Note: No oil discovered in Bosnia as of yet.

I'm familiar with your kind, whitequeen. People like you never do anything about these humanitarian crises except complain when someone else does something about them:

http://www.geocities.com/kurdistangallery/halabja.html

http://massgraves.info/

http://avpv.tripod.com/AmericanVictims.html

Let's NOT forget this, whitequeen (not that you care - you probably danced in the street when it happened):

http://www.september11news.com/AttackImages.htm

Whitequeen,

Here is a page devoted to genocide through history,
with particular reference to the Islamic conquest
of the Indian subcontinent:

http://sarvadharma.org/Museum/Articles/islamicgenocide.htm

Some salient quotes:

Will Durant: "The Islamic conquest of India is
probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a
discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that
civilization is a precious good, whose delicate
complex of order and freedom, culture and peace,
can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians
invading from without or multiplying within."
(Story of Civilization, vol.1, Our Oriental
Heritage, New York 1972, p.459)

Odd for a "peaceful" religion...

Adding to sococm's post:

The 500 year expansionist jihad into India is described as the greatest holocaust in human history - an estimated 100 million Hindus lost their lives between 1000 AD and 1525 AD:

http://hinduwebsite.com/history/holocaust.htm

And to give you a taste of the brutal history
behind the supposed "grand Islamic culture".

"The beauty of Taj Mahal is also tainted by the gory fact that the hands of some of the master craftsmen were amputated... to ensure that the perfection of the Taj could never be repeated ever again!"

from http://www.tajmahaltours.com/history-of-taj.htm

Typical of a culture and religion which has for
centuries brutalized more pacifistic cultures.

Here is anlysis which sums up why Muslims will never be nice to non-muslims not matter how good you treat them....

"In the final analysis, neither the Quran nor Mohammad advocated humanism or even coexistence between Muslims and non-Muslims, and that Islam with all its apparatus, was conceived and devised as the religion to end all religions.....This also explains why no country in which Muslims are in a majority can have a secular constitution and why no practising Muslim can be humanist." (page 11, The Muslim Dilemma in India by MRA Baig, Vikas Publishing House. Delhi, 1974).

They should have amputated their hands for building such a hideously ugly structure. TahMahal with the bulbous top and those ridiculous columns is plain ugly.

OT, The Ugliest Building in the World?

For a while the Indonesians were in the running with the Petronas Towers...

http://www.texaschapbookpress.com/magellanslog84/ulgiestbuilding.htm

Whitequeen submitted a little list for us earlier.
In response, I submit the following link which has a list which is substantially longer:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm

I think we can all see who is the greater threat to humanity!

LONGTIMELURKER WRITES:

I hesitate to weigh in on this, but I find very disturbing the trend of posts to the effect that our efforts in tsunami relief are wasted. I'm extremely sympathetic to the argument for containment, for not wasting aid on corrupt governments who still won't support us, for halting immigration and for forcing these failed nations to face up their problems and the sources of those problems. Maybe it's the Christian heritage, that we care for those who need it because they are our brothers, whether or not they recognize it. Maybe it's the smugness in saying President Bush doesn't know as much as we posters here, when I think any cold assessment shows that he is as aware of these challenges as anyone here, with the difference that he has to work in the world of the actual, and achieve what can be achieved, not wish for what should be achieved.

Thank you for your service first of all and secondly for your post, very well written and thought out.

My sentiments are with you, and some old addages come to mind "dont bite the hand that feeds you",or the old "carrot on a stick" is a good one.

Anyhow thanks for weighing in today; stay safe and look forward to hearing from you again.

"The courage we desire and prize is not the courage to die decently but to live manfully"
(Thomas Carlyle)

The White House is the ultimate expression of the median voter theorem. In a winner takes all election system like the USA, the winners are those who capture the votes of everyone to the left or right of the median voter, plus one. So successful campaigners tailor their message to appeal to the median voter, plus a smidge in the other camp. That is why national campaigns all seem to look and sound alike on most issues. Once in office, the political focus shifts to voters (other office holders like Congressman and Senators) who can advance the administration's agenda. In theory the views of these representatives are also a reflection of their constituencies. The game never ends, even in a second-term presidency. That is why guys like Carl Rove retain gainful employment throughout the administration's tenure.

So when the president says things like, "But in ... responding to the tsunami, many in the Muslim world have seen a great compassion in the American people," he is merely reflecting the median view extant in the US voter population. In this case it means that more than 50% of the US voters still think that the American magnanimity can trump the invective for all Infidels that the Islamic canon has enshrined for more than 13 centuries.

The real challenge is not to convince the president that this notion as well as many other perceptions about the nature of the Islamic ideology and the true intent of its adherents are patently false, but to educate the median voter with the truth. When the median voter gets it, the American leaders will reflect that comprehension.

So how do we do that? One problem is that the US median voter doesn't read. We need to first educate those from whom the median voter obtains their factual information on the big issues. These days a good start would be to inform the army of folks licensed to commit punditry in the mass media (readers) or to punditize ourselves (radio, TV, op-eds). Champions in this effort include Robert Spencer, Bat Ye'or, Steve Emerson, Hugh Fitzgerald, Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq, et al.

How will we know when the US median voter really understands the threat of Islam to non-Muslim civilization? The last time the median voter in the US believed that a rival ideology was a credible threat, a cold war raged for more than four decades. The time before that, all of Europe was reduced to rubble and the denizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki had a peek at the Face of Shiva.

Events like 9/11 move the dial a long way, but apparently in the case of Islam on 9/10/2001 that pointer was hard against the stops as a result of decades of expertly crafted propaganda (taqiyyah). There are strong indications (polls) that the needle is very close to center on questions like "Is Islam a threat to everything for which you and your ancestors ever lived?" In a recent poll 44% of respondants favored restricting the civil liberties of Muslims. When that number reaches 50%+ on this and similar issues, we'll know that the median voter gets it. When that happens, we may even witness a mobilization of the US economy on a scale not seen since WWII.

Here is the link to the poll which tallied the view on restricting Muslim civil liberties in the USA.

What happened to the GW Bush of 2001? What happened to the lets get those bastards attitude? Seems somehow things are getting apologetic here, with the "tarnished image" statement etc. This is how the US screws up, get into a war then as soon as it looks like some civilians are in danger stop all aggresion. What did people expect, that we would go in with superior air power blow stuff up, then the Iraqis would rise up and help bla bla, no they hate the occupation more than the insurgents. Now, after the upcomings elections what needs to happen is to pit one tribe against another, Kurds vs Sunni then support sunnis against the Kurds,etc, maybe some large concentration camps would help soften up the insurgents, after they see their families locked up behind fences somewhere in the desert. People are losing patience with these arabs,resentment is increasing and wait until some muzzie pulls a stunt in America again and we will just how much.

Personally, I'm getting a little tired of the "GWB: Master Poker Player" argument. Yes, it's true that the US faces a much larger potential enemy in terms of sheer numbers than any we have faced before. And it's commendable that Bush is trying to avoid the carnage of a world war that could result in the death of millions. I also understand the vital importance of maintaining Western access to oil in the ME. But time is not on our side. Muslim immigrants continue to flood into Europe, Turkey's accession to the EU (encouraged by Bush) is within range, the Saudis continue to fund new mosques, madrassas, and university departments (unimpeded by Bush), and Iran -- perhaps Saudi Arabia and Syria -- is about to get the bomb. A metamorphosis of Islam into something more benign, helped along by humanitarian efforts to win hearts and minds -- if possible -- could take decades.

Dear President Bush,

I am willing to donate one of my testicles to you since you seem to have lost your original factory equipment recently.

Signed,

A Friend.

**********************************************

Meanwhile-

Bush is backing away from his remark:"I want Osama Bin Laden, Dead or Alive". Why?

I guess he never read Nietzsche or Oscar Wilde, both who advise to stick to your guns, not apologize for any strengths, and do not leave your past efforts in the lurch.

But then does he read anything but the tags on his Scottish Terriers' collars?

We need a Churchill or an FDR, and we get a puppy.

I'm going to get a drink....

The real question is whether this current situation constitutes a new war of civilizations. Much vested interest is devoted to the proposition that it is not. Our leaders, both civil and religious, have been loath so to designate it as a civilizational war. Islam is said to be a religion of peace. To suspect that it is a threat on a much broader scale is one of those things that must be classified as “secret writing.” It goes against the dominant religious mood, namely, ecumenism, and against the liberal mode, namely, tolerance, according to which all issues can be resolved without war. But ecumenism and tolerance are not in accord with a certain Muslim viewpoint: The world, in their missionary view, ought to be Muslim even if by war, even by suicide bombings. War can be precisely “holy.” Until we can understand that, we simply will not be able to grasp the essence of the problem.

-- James Schall

Methinks perhaps that "White Queen" refers to chess moves and terminology.

Our "troll" might not be female, but is, in all likelihood, if not Muslim, at least sympathetic to its cause.

Is it possible JW is stepping on big toes here?

At least, and at last, we're getting through the din.

Who is this Whitequeen hater? Sympathetic to the Muslims in Fallujah is he/she?

What are she the queen of? Ignorance? Is there a huge diamond "I" on the front of her crown? Or are you the other kind of queen?

Maybe it is Ted Kennedy on another drunken binge. Or maybe it's Abraham Pooper from CAIR. The dumpy little fella with the coffee filter covering his bulbous head.

January 14, 2005

What the hell is wrong with our FBI has no one read the quran there are places in it where mo-ham-od worked with pagans to war with towns in Israel??

Qur’an 9:113 “It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for the forgiveness for disbelievers, even though they be close relatives, after it is clear to them that they are the inmates of the Flaming Hell Fire.”

Qur’an 5:78 “Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.”
Tabari VII:85 “The Qaynuqa were the first Jews to infringe the agreement between them and the Messenger.” [We are not told how they “infringed.”] “The campaign of the Prophet against the Banu Qaynuqa was in Shawwal (March 27, 624) in the second year of the Hijrah [migration from Mecca].”

WHAT ABOUT THE FLIGHTS TO STOP TO SAUDI ARABIA AND THE GET OUT BY MARCH 26TH OF INDONEISA??

Tabari VII:86 “Gabriel brought down the following verse to the Messenger: ‘If you apprehend treachery from any people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them.’ [8:58] When Gabriel had finished delivering this verse, the Prophet said, ‘I fear the Qaynuqa.’ It was on the basis of this verse that Muhammad advanced on them.”

Ishaq:363 “The Prophet turned away from him so Abd Allah put his hand on the collar of the Messenger’s robe. Muhammad said, ‘Let go of me!’ He was so angry his face turned black. Then he said, ‘Damn you, let me go!’ Abd Allah replied, ‘No, by God, I will not let you go until you treat my ally humanely. There are seven hundred men among them who defended me from my foes when I needed their help. And now, you would mow them down in a single morning? By God I do not feel safe around here any more. I am afraid of what the future may have in store.’ So the Messenger said, ‘You can have them.’”

WHY HAS THE STATE DEPARTMENT NOT HEARD THIS??
Ishaq:365/Tabari VII:94 “Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”

WHAT DOES STATE SAY ABOUT THIS??

Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate. After his fall, all the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
SO ALL THIS SH-T ABOUT WE ONLY WANT PEACE IS JUST BS
Tabari VII:97 “The next morning, the Jews were in a state of fear on account of our attack upon the enemy of Allah. After the assassination, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill every Jew.’”

Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
REMEMBER EVERY COUNTRY WHO’S EMPIRE HAS GONE AGAINST THE JEWS HAS BEEN DEFEATED!
Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’”

THIS IS WHAT WE ARE UP AGAINST WAKE UP!!

Qur’an 59:14 “The Jews will not unite and fight against you except from behind walls. They hate themselves. You would think they were united, but their hearts are divided. That is because these [Jews] are a people devoid of sense. Like those who recently preceded them [the Meccans at Badr], they [the Jews who were just sent into the desert to die] have tasted the evil result of their conduct. And for them a grievous punishment.”
THIS IS WHAT THEY THINK??

Qur’an 59:16 “They [the Jews] are like Satan when he tells man, ‘Not to believe,’ When (man) denies, Satan says, ‘I have nothing to do with you. I fear Allah, the Lord of men and jinn!’”
THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN?
Qur’an 59:17 “Both [Jews and Satan] will go into the Fire of Hell, dwelling therein forever. Such is the reward of the Zalimun (disbelievers and polytheists).”
Tabari VI:110 “When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad has repented of [reneged on] what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah. He has altered [the bargain] and brought something else.’ Those two phrases which Satan had cast on Muhammad’s tongue of were in the mouth of every polytheist. The Messenger said, ‘I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.’”

YES WORKING WELL WITH OUTHER? To get what he wanted and after ??
Tabari VII:85/Ishaq:363 “The Jews of the Qaynuqa replied, ‘Muhammad, do you think that we are like your people? Do not be deluded by the fact that you met a people with no knowledge and you made good use of your opportunity.’”

AND OF COURSE WE HAVE??

DEMONS & DEVILS:

Muslim:C14B39N6759 “Aisha, the wife of Allah’s Apostle, reported: ‘Allah’s Messenger left my apartment during the night. Then he came and he saw me in an agitated state.’ He said: “Aisha, what has happened to you? Do you feel jealous?” I said: “How can it be that a girl like me would not feel jealous in regard to a husband like you? Thereupon Allah’s Messenger said: “It is your devil who has come to you.” I said: “Allah’s Messenger, is there a devil with me?” He said: “Yes.” I said: “Is there a devil attached to everyone?” He said: “Yes.” I said: “Allah’s Messenger, is there a devil attached to you also?” He said: “Yes.”’”

AND THEN??
Bukhari:V6B60N475 “Allah’s Apostle became sick and could not offer his prayer. A lady came and said, ‘Muhammad! I think that your Satan has forsaken you, for I have not seen him with you for two or three nights!’ On that Allah revealed: ‘By the night when it darkens, your Lord has neither forsaken you, nor hated you.’”

WHAT WAS IT THE POPE SAID TODAY??

Bukhari:V4B54N516 “The Prophet said, ‘If anyone rouses from sleep and performs ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blow it out thrice because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.’”

ONE OF MY FAVORITS??

Qur’an 72:13 “So, since we [Jinn/Devils] have listened to the guidance (of the Qur’an), we have accepted (Islam): and any who believes in his Lord has no fear of loss, force, or oppression.”

WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF BAM??
AND NOW INDONEISA??

Bukhari:V4B54N506 “When a human being is born, Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers. That is why it cries.’”

OH MY NOT A BLESSING AT ALL??

Qur’an 6:66 “The people reject this (Book) and call it a lie though it is the truth. Say: ‘I am not a warden over you.’ ...When you see men who meddle with Our Revelations, turn away, withdrawing from them. Satan makes you forget.”

WHO IS IT THEY WORSHIP??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their Evil give them Strength to Stand Up and Fight them Amen

whitequeen:

It's obvious you still had your head in the glue-bag during the Iraq Liberation,my local Newspaper ran a story in April 2003 that dealt with the interviewing of a Doctor that was under
a death threat by Saddam if he revealed the FACT
that the "Dead babies" or children you love to cite as victims of sanctions,where actually being kept in coolers for future propaganda photo-ops
for people like you that are easily fooled.
The Doctor volunteered to assist children in Iraq, but Saddam made it clear that if he mentioned the dead bodies being stored for exploitation,he would be banned from coming back or if in Iraq he'd be killed or jailed until he died.

*************************************************

As for Islam being perfect,here's some links to a sleezy ruse to use the Tsanami disaster for raising money for the Global Islamic revolution.

While researching the TVO Tv website for information on the "Sharia-Law" debate,I found the first link below and realized the male guest
has links to Global Islamic Org.'s and the radical
elements in London and Great Britian as a whole.This explains his demands for Sharia-Law in Canada.

The second link was the OP-ED by the self-professed spokesperson for islam and Canadian Muslims,his diatribe and tirade makes it clear
that Muslims are commanded to create Islamic States where ever they live.Also note how he exalts IRAN and sees it as the modern Islamic revolution that will spread across the world.

The third link is my journey to the "Tsanami Relief" donation site,it's a scam folks,read the whole text of the projects and you'll see that only Islamic Nations or Muslims will benefit from
the money.
This doesn't state that all the funds will go to aid,a subtle tag that "Hijacks" the generic undestanding of the term "NGO's" (non-Gov-Org.s)
only states that HADI ( Human assistance & developement international ) will work in cooperation with "Well-trusted" NGO's in the field. One ad includes a Quranic verse to induce guilt and obedience to Allah's commands to help other believers around the world.

* The site has the nerve to list a IRS extention
date for the 2004 tax receipts for charitable donations.*

Anyone out there with connections to the Revenue services should alert them to this misleading solicitation of Humanitarian financial
aid that's really being funneled to Global Islamic
fund-raising for potential support of Jihad training in Islamic area's. Please note that the Tsunami has already been blamed on "The jews" and infidels,I believe Indonesian Muslims want to
allow the deaths to rise as a recruiting tool for
attacking the west as responsible for all of the
dead Muslims.

http://www.muslimedia.com/mainpage.htm
http://www.muslimedia.com/globalislmove1.htm
http://www.islamicity.com/donate/?ref=30

The USA bashing was a nice touch for the closet Jihadists that visit the site and see the scam to take western money while railing about how bad we are and how Islam will save the world from the sins of "Freewill".

Anyway, here's the link to the article about the US accidently napalming Fallujah. I guess they packed it in their airplanes without realising what it was.

Incidentally, I am aware enough not to tar all Americans with one brush, unlike a lot of people here who seem think that Muslims are one mass of mindless people. We've got to stop thinking in black and white. Evil is done by both sides. I'm not involved in hatred. Just facts.
Posted by: whitequeen

You only deal in facts? Interesting. I suspect with good reason that you are just another Muslim conspiracy theorist. And a piss poor one at that. As far as I have been able to find out, the US military destroyed their stocks of napalm and no longer have any. Now if they couldn’t keep something as small as torturing a few bad guys in one of Saddam’s old prisons to themselves, then how on earth could they possibly keep the fact that they used napalm secret? Of course your answer is they didn’t keep it secret, and your link is proof. Maybe the Jewish Freemasons did it eh?

Someone should write a book on the irrationality of Islam and make a list of all the conspiracy theories that muslims believe in.

Sheik Canuck (swt)-

"The Book of Muslo-Conspiracy Theories" you suggest would be too thick to carry -except on the back of a bactrian (in Afghanistan) or dromedary (in Saudi).

I recommend another:

"The Genuine Collected Humor of Islam".

One (blank) onionskin page.

The closest thing they have is slavering shadenfreude.

Such as a self-congratulatory Muslim site I stumbled onto recently, with posted photos of destroyed U.S. vehicles in Iraq, and the cheers and blessing from various posts, and one picture showed a 'blown-out' Bradley Fighting Vehicle which one happy little Musselman (jihadi wannabe) added the subtitle:

"Okay, who had baked beans for breakfast?" to.

The blood on the street around the RPG'd troop carrier gave the peaceful Muslims "howling their execrations" a real kick to see.

whitequeen-

The sins of the U.S. are reported in the American Press as sins.

(The U.S. military idiots at Abu Ghraib are being tried and imprisoned for their moronic, sadistic and illegal behavior.)

The sins of Islam are cheered as the glory of Allah.

(Saddam was giving blood payments to Palestinian suicide bombers' families until he was driven from power like the hydrophobic dog he is.)

Notice any difference there?

Of course you don't.

You prefer the Mind Doom Cult.

Longtime Lurker: Now that type key is letting me back in, thanks for your comments; and your service. Were I a younger man, I'd probably get myself in shape to join you in service to your country.

I myself have met Afghans, Hui, Uighurs, Balochi, and other devout Muslims grateful for America's stand against Communism, for new homes in the new world, etc. Having met Malaysians, I also know that Southeast Asian Muslim mores sometimes find Arab one incomprehensible, just as I as an American Christian have to tread lightly as a guest with co-religionists who are Korean or Han Chinese. I note Steve Emerson's book on _Jihad in America_ reports that a lot of those who've blown the whistle on the baddies in our country (the USA--although I currently live and work in Taiwan) are themselves Muslims--and even Arab.

And I'll say this even though I do not like Islam at all, and pray God's ultimate blessing on Muslims--confessing Jesus as God's first and last Word (John 1:1) and Messiah, to the praise of God's glorious grace (and I believe the way to do this is preaching and ethical example--NOT bombing people).

President Bush, like all other political heads, is between a rock and a hard place for most of his working life, I pray for his success. I think his "religion of peace" comments simply reflect that he knows there are Muslims living peacefully and productively in the USA, and even serving the US government in various capacities and a charitable instinct that will give people the benefit of the doubt.

Lurker, stay safe, and I hope you come away from your Indonesian stay with an appreciation and love for Southeast Asian people. God bless you.

Kepha

White Queen,
Just lately I'm spending far too much time talking to socialist retards like you, so I'm going to make this short and sweet.

The elections in Iraq need to take place, and we are still battling insurgents now (perhaps because Iraqs neighbours are sending in muhajin reinforcements on a daily basis), so how much more of a struggle would it have been, had we not removed Fallujah from terrorist control???

Of course, with all Zarqawis tough talk, and his insistence that he will "die as a martyr", we assumed we'd have the priveledge of making his aquaintance during the battle. How disappointing then to to discover the cowardly little ghecco had cacked his pants and buggered off.

If I'd have been in charge, Fallujah wouldn't even have had so much as a warning, for the simple reason the task would be to pop caps in as many rag-tag cockroaches faces as possible. Civilian casualties would be the fault of Zarqawi and co, for using them as sheilds.

OT

Mr.Spencer, for some reason I can't access Dhimmiwatch. The bar on the left-hand side of the main page only goes as far down as the calender.

Mike,
If you had studied the basics of Islam, you would find evidence that force marriage is forbidden in Islam. A forced marriage is not a valid marriage. Forced marriages are a cultural evil which occur all over the world, including non-Muslim countries.

How do you feel about the levels of infidelity and high AIDS rates in relationships in the West? How do you feel about the high levels of violence on our streets? How do you feel about the high levels of drugs and also anti-depressants that are being consumed? Is this part of the Christian faith? No.

Whoever said I like to deal in propaganda, not facts, I think you're saying this because you don't want to face the truth. American media is controlled by corporations. American people are not aware of how censored their media is.

Whoever said I was dancing in the streets on 9/11: really! Is that an intelligent remark to make? Why make such a baseless assertion?

What has happened is that everything has become polarised. Bush has very successfully manipulated the perception of a lot of the US. He paints a black and white cartoon version of reality.

I'm not providing facts of the damage that Wahhabis have done in the world: including slaughtering shi'as and sufis and making life difficult for everybody - because you guys are full on in providing this yourselves. I'm just redressing the balance of this website.

If you want to understand about the battles which took place at the time of Islam, you need to understand the times and the society. The Ethiopian King Abraha had actually just gone over Yemen in the 7th century slaughtered a whole community of Jews. Arabia at that time was made up of different tribes always vying for power and always at war. For thirteen years the Muslims had a pacifist policy, but resorted to war when the totalitarian Quraysh set their armies upon them. The Prophet was invited as a mediator to Medina. He stabilised the society by drawing up peace treaties among the different groups, but at some point the groups broke the peace treaty and along with the Quraysh, set about destroying the small the Muslim community.

Islam has the equivalent of a 'samurai ethic'. It's not Buddhism. You have the right to defend your property and your land. The problem these days is that those who are committing mindless violence in the name of Islam haven't got a clue about the 'soldierly ethic'. Blowing up innocent civilians is sick.

Other Muslim groups are trying hard to combat the Wahhabi movement. The Prophet even predicted the coming of these types of 'Muslims'. He even described their appearance and said they will cause trouble and strife in the world until the Day of Judgement. The movement comes from Najd, and the Prophet said that from the area of Najd would come the horn of Shaytan (Satan). These people are anti-intellectual and oppress other Muslims too. That's what needs to be recognised.

Incidentally, Abraha was a Christian.

For anyone who wants evidence of the infant deaths in Iraq, check out Dr Eric Herring's work.

Most married muslims had pre-arranged marriages.

You seem to have this strange notion that everyone on this website is anti-jihad because they listen to George Bush.
For starters not all of us are american (I'm British, and think Blair is a total wanker and won't vote for him again) and those that are, just like those of other nationalities are against islam for their own reasons. And believe me there are plenty of them.

Whitequeen

You are certainly expressing your feelings about the Islamic menace that is confronting the world. But expressing personal "feelings" and thoughts as a Moslem and even presentng proof here and there to support your position does not address the historical evidence to the contrary.

Islam no matter which version of it a Moslem subscribes to, soon developes into a distructive, agent of social, cultural and in the end national transformation wherever it is introduced. History is clear on this, the 50 plus Moslem nations on earth created by Arab/Moslem imperialism bear witness to it.

As Bat Ye'or said in her interview, the reality and history of jihad does not belong just to Moslems, but also to it's many, many victims. As such, to allow the arguement to be framed as an effort of moderate Moslems or Moslems who are not all part of the global jihad, does nothing to acknowledge the fact that the result of a substantial Moslem presence in any non-Moslem society results in jihad and conquest DESPITE all the so called normal Moslem's who you think matter. In reality, these Moslems don't because they look the other way and let their more ferverent co-religionists do the Islamic thing, i.e., fight to raise the banner of Islam over the entire world.

Which is why Islamic immigration must be halted. You understand, don't you? Islamic countries such as the headquarters of the worldwide Islamic movement, Saudi Arabia mandate by law that all its citizens must be Moslems. So that they never lose their heritage and religious identity. We in the west must do the same to preserve ours, not demand a particular religion, just halt the further introduction of an army which will one rise up and enslave us all.

If your country was selling you out to your civilizational polar opposite and told you there's nothing you need to worry about introduced laws controlling what can be said about it or taught about it in the schools, how would you feel when the danger is so obvious? I bet you would say, "keep those crazy infidels out", I like my country as it is thank you.

Dear Rikki,
I have noticed that people are not very enthusiastic about Bush on this website, and I have also noticed that about 99.9% of the people here are anti-'jihad', mainly due to a selective view of history and politics. I would agree with you about Blair.

Catherine, you have misquoted the Qur'an:
59:16: [And the hypocrites are] on the likeness of the Devil when he telleth man to disbelieve then, when he disbelieveth saith: I fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.'

The hypocrites were those who pretended to Muslim, not the Jews.

And yes, it is said that some of the jinns (but not the Devils!) became Muslim. Therefore there are good jinn and bad jinn.

Make sure you read a proper tafsir (exegesis) by one of the reputed scholars before making up your own interpretations.

Anyway, lets look at the Old Testament:

Joshua 10:18-28

'And Joshua said, Roll great stones upon the mouth of the cave [where five kings had fled] and set men by it to keep them:
And stay ye not, but pursue after your enemies and smite the hindmost of them; suffer them not to enter into their cities: for the Lord your God had delivered them unto your hand.
And it came to pass, when Joshua and the children of Israel had made an end of slaying them with a very great slaughter, till they were consumed, that the rest which remained of them entered into fenced cities.'

Then Joshua gets the five kings:
'And afterward Joshua slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees till evening. (26)'And that day Joshua took Madddeh, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the kind thereof he utterly destroyed them and all the souls that were therein, he let none remain' (28)

Longtime Lurker:

A very interesting post, rightly pointing out that we need to distinguish between ordinary victims and those who claim to speak for them.

In general it is important to ensure that aid reaches those who need it and not their corrupt governments.

There are indeed Muslims who see their faith as a private matter, centred around the five pillars. They can be very nice people. The problem is, though, that they are not true Muslims, and are perhaps vulnerable to takeover by true Muslims who follow in the footsteps of their evil so-called prophet, with all the horrors that that entails.

A true Christian may well be a better person than a false one. A true Muslim will always be a worse person than a false one.

Anyway, lets look at the Old Testament:Joshua 10:18-28...blah blah etc.etc.
Posted by: whitequeen at January 15, 2005 07:16 AM

WHY? why do apologists for Islam keep bringing up the OLD Testament as some sort of moral equivalency?
Dost thou NOT realize there was a NEW testament?......... or is it that the massive amounts of war,conquest,violence,bloodshed and sacrifice found in the old book just makes more sense to the Islamic way of thinking??
The OLD Testament is NOT what the people of the book operate upon in this world.
ISLAM NEEDS THEIR NEW TESTAMENT.Or face eventual radioactive destruction,and subsequently large nickel-iron chunks of rocks from space.Impacting upon various parts of the planet surface.
(not sure in what order this will happen)perhaps the chunks of nikel-iron will come first?That is niether here nor there.
I am of no particular religion.but I have "some" knowledge of many .....Islam is WAY off the mark..... and as a direct result of their "passive-aggressive" totalitarian expansionist trends they WILL cause MASSIVE damage to the planet and MASSIVE numbers of dead humans in many parts of the earth.
So....please don't even bring religious quotes into this,...that is pointless... and does nothing but detract from the facts.

one fact :

Islam in its current mode is a THREAT to the very existence of the human race....believe it.

Anyways On topic...IMHO Bush is well aware of the facts and does what must be done to maintain the interests of his family,his companies,his Saudi buddies and his COUNTRY and things most of us have no idea of,There are myriad causes and effects ongoing in the many situations upon this small wet rock that even history will not get 100% correct.........../ RANT ENDS >

BEGIN ON TOPIC>

All we can know for certain is that for the purposes of this blog JIHAD IS A THREAT TO HUMANS.

This Letter was sent to various INFIDEL world leaders upon Powell visit to the region follows.

Subject :Tsunami aid

Powell calls funds 'an investment in national security'

What it does in the Muslim world, the rest of the world is giving an opportunity to see American generosity, American values in action," Secretary of State Colin Powell said Tuesday in Jakarta after meeting with Hassan Wirayuda, his Indonesian counterpart.

Say this with your words .
But know the facts.......................
Infidel aid GENERATES hate.

As has been shown in the past,infidel aid to Islamic areas do NOT result in gratitude or respect.
Aid from Infidels, while readily accepted ,..only causes humiliation and subsequently increase in HATRED toward the generous infidel.
This should not affect our aid ...........(Aid is a moral imperative).............
.but, we hope the infidel governments ARE aware of this unfortunate trend.
keep up the good work.

Posted by: AvrageJoe at January 15, 2005 09:21 AM

Maybe we Should!!
http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200501140730.asp
January 14, 2005, 7:30 a.m.
Triangulating the War
Yesterday’s genius, today’s fool, tomorrow’s what?
Reading the pages of foreign-policy journals, between the long tracts on Bush's "failures" and neoconservative "arrogance," one encounters mostly predictions of defeat and calls for phased withdrawal — always with resounding criticism of the American "botched" occupation.
Platitudes follow: "We can't just leave now," followed by no real advice on how a fascist society can be jumpstarted into a modern liberal republic. After all, there is no government handbook entitled, "Operation 1A: How to remove a Middle East fascist regime in three weeks, reconstruct the countryside, and hold the first elections in the nation's history — all within two years." Almost all who supported the war now are bailing on the pretext that their version of the reconstruction was not followed: While a three-week war was their idea, a 20-month messy reconstruction was surely someone else's. Yesterday genius is today's fool — and who knows next month if the elections work? Witness Afghanistan where all those who recently said the victory was "lost" to warlords are now suddenly quiet.
Heads You Lose, Tails We Win
Indeed, from the oscillating analyses of Iraq, the following impossible picture often emerges from our intelligentsia. It was a fatal error to disband the Iraqi army. That led to lawlessness and a loss of confidence in the American ability to restore immediate order after Saddam's fall. Yet it was also a fatal error to keep some Baathists in the newly constituted army. They were corrupt and wished reform to fail — witness the Fallujah Brigade that either betrayed us or aided the enemy. So we turned off the Sunnis by disbanding the army — and yet somehow turned off the Shiites by keeping some parts of it.
Massive construction projects were hogged by gargantuan American firms, ensconced in the Green Zone that did not engage either local Iraqi workers or small companies and thus squandered precious good will. Or, indigenous contractors proved irresponsible and unreliable, evidence for why Iraq was in such bad shape to begin with. And when we did put exclusive reliance on them, it ensured only lackadaisical and half-hearted reconstruction.
We also lost hearts and minds by using GPS bombs to obliterate houses full of killers and take out blocks of insurgents. And yet we lost hearts and minds by failing to act decisively and de facto turning over large enclaves to terrorists and Saddamites whom we were afraid to root out. Elections should have been held earlier; no, they must be delayed since they come too soon when the country is still unsecured.
Our helmeted soldiers with sunglasses are holed up in enclaves, don't mingle, and perpetuated the heavy-handed image of snooty occupiers. But leaving the Green Zone is an open invitation to kidnapping and worse. So we are both too well hidden and yet not hidden enough. Embedded media gave us a real-time picture of the fighting. But (if one is conservative) it left open the opportunity for sensationalism on the part of wannabe crusaders, and (if one is liberal) it created too close a psychological bond with the soldiers that impaired objectivity.
It was a mistake to postpone Iraqi sovereignty for so long; but it is an equal mistake to rush into elections while the country is so insecure. The CIA is impotent, out-of-touch, and clownish; somehow it mind-controlled Allawi, Chalabi, and a host of other Iraqi "puppets."
The litany from the mercurial Beltway always goes on: There were enough troops to take out Saddam in three weeks, but not enough to restore order to the countryside — but still too many that resulted in too high an American profile on the streets of Baghdad. The transformations of Donald Rumsfeld (this week's genius, last week's fool) have left us stripped down and bereft of the muscle needed. Yet new, more mobile brigades in strikers and special forces with laptops are preferable to old armored divisions on the streets of Iraqi.
We cannot flee, but must not stay. Iraqis publicly say we should leave, but privately beg us to remain. We were after cheap oil, but gas prices somehow climbed almost immediately after we went in. Democracy won't work with these people, but somehow we are seeing three elections in the wake of the Taliban, Arafat, and Saddam.
There are many constants in all this pessimistic confusion — beside the fact that we are becoming a near hysterical society. First, our miraculous efforts in toppling the Taliban and Saddam have apparently made us forget war is always a litany of mistakes. No conflict is conducted according to either antebellum planning or can proceed with the benefit of hindsight. Iraq was not Yemen or Qatar, but rather the most wicked regime in the world, in the heart of the Arab world, full of oil, terrorists, and mass graves. There were no helpful neighbors to keep a lid on their own infiltrating jihadists. Instead we had to go into the heart of the caliphate, take out a mass murderer, restore civil society after 30 years of brutality, and ward off Sunni and Baathist fomenters in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria — all the while keeping out Iranian-Shiite agents bent on stopping democracy. The wonder is not that there is violence and gloom in Iraq, but that less than two years after Saddam was removed, elections are still on track.
The Follies of World War II
Second, our very success creates ever increasing expectations of perfection for a postmodern America used to instant gratification. We now look back in awe at World War II, the model of military success, in which within four years an unprepared United States won two global wars, at sea, on the ground, and in the air, in three continents against Japan, Italy, and Germany, and supplied both England and the Soviet Union. But our forefathers experienced disaster after disaster in a tale of heartbreak, almost as inglorious as the Korean mess or Vietnam tragedy. And they did things to win we perhaps claim we would now not: Shoot German prisoners in the Bulge, firebomb Axis cities, drop the bomb — almost anything to stop fascists from slaughtering even more millions of innocents.
Our armored vehicles were deathtraps and only improved days before the surrender. American torpedoes were often duds. Unescorted daylight bombing proved a disaster, but continued. Amphibious assaults like Anzio and Tarawa were bloodbaths and emblematic of terrible planning and command. The recapture of Manila was clumsy and far too costly. Okinawa was the worst of all operations, and yet was begun just over fourth months before the surrender — without any planning for Kamikazes who were shortly to kill 5,000 American sailors. Patton, the one general that could have ended the western war in 1944, was relieved and then subordinated to an auxiliary position with near fatal results for the drive from Normandy; mediocrities like Mark Clark flourished and were promoted. Admiral King resisted the life-saving convoy system and unnecessarily sacrificed merchant ships; while Bull Halsey almost lost his unprepared fleet to a storm.
The war's aftermath seemed worse, to be overseen by an untried president who was considered an abject lightweight. Not-so-quite collateral damage had ruined entire cities. Europe nearly starved in winter 1945-6. Millions were on the road in mass exoduses. After spending billions to destroy Nazi Germany we had to spend billions more to rebuild it — and repair the devastation it had wrought on its neighbors. Our so-called partisan friends in Yugoslavia and Greece turned out to be hard-core Communist killers. Soon enough we learned that the guerrillas in the mountains of Europe whom we had idolized, in fact, fought as much for Communism as against fascism — but never for democracy.
But at least there was clear-cut strategic success? Oh? The war started to keep Eastern Europe free of Nazis and ended up ensuring that it was enslaved by Stalinists. Poland was neither free in 1940 nor in 1946. By early 1946 we were already considering putting former Luftwaffe pilots in American jets — improved with ample borrowing from Nazi technology — to protect Europe from the Red Army carried westward on GM trucks. We put Nazis on trials for war crimes even as we invited their scientists to our shores to match their counterparts in the Soviet Union who were building even more lethal weapons to destroy us. Our utopian idea of a global U.N. immediately deteriorated into a mess — decades of vetoes in the Security Council by Stalinists and Maoists, even as former colonial states turned thugocracies in the General Assembly ganged up on Israel and the survivors of the Holocaust.
After Americans had liberated France and restored his country, General de Gaulle created the myth of the French resistance and immediately triangulated with our enemies to reforge some pathetic sort of French grandeur. An exhausted England turned over to us a collapsing empire, with the warning that it might all turn Communist. Tired of the war and postbellum costs, Americans suddenly were asked to wage a new Cold War to keep a shrinking West and its allies free. The Department of War turned into the Department of Defense, along with weird new things like the U.S. Air Force, Strategic Air Command, Food for Peace, Alliance for Progress, Voice of America, and thousands of other costly entities never dreamed of just a few years earlier.
And yet our greatest generation thought by and large they had done pretty well. We in contrast would have given up in despair in 1942, New York Times columnists and NPR pundits pontificating "I told you so" as if we were better off sitting out the war all along.
Iraqi options
Finally, the United States has a number of options in Iraq. In fact, the paradoxes are ever more confronting our enemies. There is a glaring problem for the terrorists in Iraq: 75 percent of the country wants elections. The Sunni clerics wish to delay them on the strange logic that they either cannot or will not stop their brethren who are trying to derail the voting through which their cause will lose. But such appeals appear increasingly empty — almost like the Secessionists complaining about Northern voters in 1860 might imperil the Union. And no one is all that sure that there really is a purist Sunni block of millions of obstructionists, rather than just ordinary Iraqis who want to vote and are in fear of extremists who claim their allegiance. Saudi Arabia unleashed terrorists to stop democracy in Iraq, and is now worried their young Frankensteins hate their creators just as much.
So we are inching ahead as global television soon will air an elected and autonomous government fighting fascists for the chance of democracy. If the Kurds and the Shiite majorities vote for us to leave, then we must — but to do so would be to ensure the return of the Baathists, the domination of Wahhabi fundamentalism, or the Lebanonization of the country. And so they probably won't. There is much talk of an Iranian takeover, but no evidence that an Iraqi Shiite sees himself as more an Iranian than an Arab.
All this we cannot see at the present as we in our weariness lament the losses of almost 1,100 combat dead and billions committed to people who appear from 30-second media streams to be singularly ungracious and not our sort of folk. We dwell on unmistakable lapses, never on amazing successes — just as we were consumed with Afghanistan in its dark moments, but now ignore its road to success. But never mind all this: The long-term prospects are still as bright as things seem gloomy in the short-term — but only if we emulate our grandfathers and press on with the third Middle East election in the last six months.
— Victor Davis Hanson

Hugh you Know he is right!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength,Wisdom,Sight and Courage to Victory[FREEDOM] to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Open the Worlds Eyes to their EVIL Amen

Whitequeen, we have read your book. You will never convince us of your
"peacefull" intentions toward the West. I see only evil in your "scriptures".