Egyptian court to investigate academic who said Christians are oppressed there

He may also find http://www.barnabasfund.org/News/Archive/Egypt_Archive.htm
useful.

News items such as :- Police Officer Murders Three Christians (6 May 2004)
Four Detained Christians Released (19 April 2004)
Young Christian Girls Forced to Choose: Islam or Serious Abuse (2 April 2004)
Christian Centre Attacked by Army This Morning (5 January 2004)

Today is the day in Iraq, masses in Arab world and Muslims world are seeing like iraquis suffering are voting, and a lot, even in occupation, the truth in those countries like Egypt is forbidden, only the aparences are allowed, brave for this professor but he has signed his sentence of death

Maybe the confusion is because he was comparing Christians in Egypt to Christians in New Jersey that get tied up and have their throats slit as taught by Muhammed in the Quran.
By that standard I'd say yes,Islamists are less murderous within Egypts borders,but only by a micron so don't get too comfortible around Allah's children of death.

Hmmmmmm........lets see here; the ALLEGED suspect in the gruesome murder of a New Jersey FAMILY has fled the U.S. and is believed back in Egypt.And then we have:

Dr Saaddin Ibrahim, who is director of Ibn Khaldon Centre for Development Studies, is accused of using his role at the centre to insult Egypt and brand the grand Imam of Al Azhar a terrorist. Lawyer Samir Shehata, who filed the report against Ibrahim, claims that Ibrahim used his centre to issue statements claiming that Christians in Egypt are oppressed.

The NJ case is profiled on Americas Most Wanted....what a sham.....oh yeah, President on at 1pm est.,...free Iraq

I'm hoping that President Bush will grow cojones because he won't be running again. If he would just stop calling Islam the *religion of peace*, it would be a small step forward. I'm afraid to hope for much more than that.

Misskitty:

Do you see anyone in the American political landscape who not only qualifies to lead but also to confront the Islamists? We know that for the most part Saudi $$$'s are holding the media and everyone else to ransom. Why do you think nobody is coming out and talking Turkey?

As long as our own politcal spin doctors are dishonest and beat around the bush, the Bush administration will not make a dent in the worldwide expansion of Islam.

Said Eddin Ibrahim should not be lionized for stating, rather mildly, an obvious truth. He is by no means a brave analyst of Islam generally; his views on Israel, for example, and on the place of the Jews in the Middle East, are show that his sympathies are distinctly limited.

Other Egyptian "reformers" about whom a bit too much is made for their tepid "reforms" include Leila Ahmed, now enjoying her tenured chair at Harvard (and who, like Fatima Mernissi, was once more daring in her linking of Islam to mistreatment of women than she has subsequently become), and, at a lower level, Mona Obeid.

There are a few slimeball Muslim Lawyers
that defend Islam as a religion of peace and are well aware of Canada's new privacy laws that restrict the press from reporting personal information while an alleged crime was comitted.
The arrests of three terrorists with ties to Al-Qaeda are still being defended by CAIR,they post a demand for transparency in the evidence and charges against them while knowing the privacy act wont allow it.
CAIR and their ilk use this tactic to appear
to be defending an oppressed Muslim arrested just for being a victim of Islamophobia and racism.
When the facts were printed about the 19 Sunni Muslms from Pakistan that were in Canada on expired Visa and used forged documents,CAIR and the C.I.C went on a tirade about how the news articles have ruined their live and make them at risk for harm when returning to Pakistan from the deportation.
We can win with them,they whine and bitch matter what stance the Governemnt takes on defending our Country,they gloated over he 9/11 attack because the National security was to blame for the hijackers being in the Country but now that the Security forces as taking their advice CAIR and the ACLU claim it an attack on freedom
and Liberty.
Which one is it Hooper,do you want the terrorists stopped so they don't harm the image of Islam,or do you defend them to slaughter more civilians as you rant about how their actions are un-Islamic and against the Quranic teachings of peace and tolerance.

The next time Hooper bitches about Racism and Islamophobia I'll mail him a quarter so he can phone someone that gives a SH*T because I won't.

Jizya in Judaism & Christianity!
http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/jizya.htm

Islaam has the perfect Jizya rules.

By: Shahid Bin Waheed شاهد بن وحيد

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

الحمدلله رب العالمين والصلوة والسلام على اشرف الانبياء وسيدالمرسلين نبينا محمد صل ا لله عليه وعلى آله واصحابه وازواجه اجمعين - امابعد

Thanks to be Allaah, Sustainer of the Universe, and blessing and salutation to be the most distinguish of the Messengers and foremost among the Prophets, our Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allaah be on him and on his wives, children and Companions.

This is not a secret that enemies of Islaam have always been busy 24/7/365 spreading lies, disinformation and distortion against Islaam, especially Jews and Christians. The topic and/or issue of Jizya جزية (in Islaam) is one of the topics and/or issues that have been exploited overwhelmingly by the Jews and Christians, mainly, by their clergy. The irony of this unjust and absurd bigotry is that Jews and Christians (including their clergy) have successfully concealed the fact that Jizya is also a part of their creed found in the Bible, but it is absolutely inhuman. In the treatise, I will inSha Allaah present the evidence from the very Bible (Old Testament & New Testament) unveiling the dark faces of Judaism and Christianity.

We find the mention of Jizya جزية in Old Testament and New Testament (both), therefore, I will begin citing from Old Testament first. Please be advised that in the table right side are the quotes from Arabic Bible and left side are from the English translation, which has further distorted the meaning. We know that Bible was translated in Arabic first around the advent of Islaam. However, English translation of the Bible was not done until 15th century. Christian English translators have deliberately distorted many words in an attempt to be competitive with Islaam. Because they knew that Islaam is the threat for their falsehood.

Jizya جزية in Old Testament

Genesis 49:15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.
تكوين 49:15 فرأى المحلّ انه حسن والارض انها نزهة.فاحنى كتفه للحمل وصار للجزية عبدا.

Joshua 16:10 And they drave not out the Canaanites that dwelt in Gezer: but the Canaanites dwell among the Ephraimites unto this day, and serve under tribute.
يشوع 16:10 فلم يطردوا الكنعانيين الساكنين في جازر.فسكن الكنعانيون في وسط افرايم الى هذا اليوم وكانوا عبيدا تحت الجزية

Joshua 17:13 Yet it came to pass, when the children of Israel were waxen strong, that they put the Canaanites to tribute; but did not utterly drive them out.
شوع 17:13 وكان لما تشدد بنو اسرائيل انهم جعلوا الكنعانيين تحت الجزية ولم يطردوهم طردا

Judges 1:28 And it came to pass, when Israel was strong, that they put the Canaanites to tribute, and did not utterly drive them out.
قضاة 1:28 وكان لما تشدد اسرائيل انه وضع الكنعانيين تحت الجزية ولم يطردهم طردا.

2 Samuel 20:24 And Adoram was over the tribute: and Jehoshaphat the son of Ahilud was recorder:
2 صموئيل 20:24 وادورام على الجزية ويهوشافاط بن اخيلود مسجلا

Ezra 4:13 Be it known now unto the king, that, if this city be builded, and the walls set up again, then will they not pay toll, tribute, and custom, and so thou shalt endamage the revenue of the kings.
عزرا 4:13 ليكن الآن معلوما لدى الملك انه اذا بنيت هذه المدينة وأكملت اسوارها لا يؤدون جزية ولا خراجا ولا خفارة فاخيرا تضر الملوك.

Ezra 4:20 There have been mighty kings also over Jerusalem, which have ruled over all countries beyond the river; and toll, tribute, and custom, was paid unto them.
عزرا 4:20 وقد كان ملوك مقتدرون على اورشليم وتسلطوا على جميع عبر النهر وقد أعطوا جزية وخراجا وخفارة.

Ezra 6:8 Moreover I make a decree what ye shall do to the elders of these Jews for the building of this house of God: that of the king’s goods, even of the tribute beyond the river, forthwith expenses be given unto these men, that they be not hindered.
عزرا 6:8 وقد صدر مني أمر بما تعملون مع شيوخ اليهود هؤلاء في بناء بيت الله هذا.فمن مال الملك من جزية عبر النهر تعط النفقة عاجلا لهؤلاء الرجال حتى لا يبطلوا.

Esther 10:1 And the king Ahasuerus laid a tribute upon the land, and upon the isles of the sea.
استير 10:1 ووضع الملك احشويروش جزية على الارض وجزائر البحر.

Proverbs 12:24 The hand of the diligent shall bear rule: but the slothful shall be under tribute.
امثال 12:24 يد المجتهدين تسود.اما الرخوة فتكون تحت الجزية.

Jizya جزية in New Testament

Matthew 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
متى 17:25 قال بلى.فلما دخل البيت سبقه يسوع قائلا ماذا تظن يا سمعان.ممن ياخذ ملوك الارض الجباية او الجزية أمن بنيهم ام من الاجانب.

Matthew 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
متى 22:17 فقل لنا ماذا تظن.أيجوز ان تعطى جزية لقيصر ام لا.

Matthew 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
متى 22:19 أروني معاملة الجزية.فقدموا له دينارا.

Mark 12:14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
مرقس 12:14 فلما جاءوا قالوا له يا معلّم نعلم انك صادق ولا تبالي باحد لانك لا تنظر الى وجوه الناس بل بالحق تعلّم طريق الله.أيجوز ان تعطى جزية لقيصر ام لا.نعطي ام لا نعطي.

Luke 20:22 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
لوقا 20:22 أيجوز لنا ان نعطي جزية لقيصر ام لا.

Luke 23:2 And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
لوقا 23:2 وابتدأوا يشتكون عليه قائلين اننا وجدنا هذا يفسد الامة ويمنع ان تعطى جزية لقيصر قائلا انه هو مسيح ملك.

Romans 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
رومية 13:6 فانكم لاجل هذا توفون الجزية ايضا.اذ هم خدام الله مواظبون على ذلك بعينه.

Romans 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
رومية 13:7 فاعطوا الجميع حقوقهم.الجزية لمن له الجزية.الجباية لمن له الجباية.والخوف لمن له الخوف والاكرام لمن له الاكرام

At this point I must point out that Jesus in the New Testament commanded to pay Jizya جزية to Caesar, as we read in the New Testament,

Matthew 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar‘s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar‘s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

Mark 12:16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar‘s.

Mark 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar‘s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

Luke 20:22 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?

Luke 20:24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar‘s.

Luke 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar‘s, and unto God the things which be God’s.

The above evidence from the New Testament also constitutes that Jesus was not for freedom, sovereignty and liberty of Jews and/or Christians. Jesus endorsed occupation of Romans and/or living under Roman occupation rather being sovereign and free. That would lead us to ask what these Jews and Christians are [and/or have been] doing in Muslim lands like Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq. The Genocide of Muslims under occupation (of Jews and Christians) is absolutely contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Jews need to get out of Palestine, while Christians must stop supporting the Jews. Also USA has no business in Afghanistan and Iraq, occupying these countries and stealing their resources. Christian countries should invite others to occupy them according to Jesus’ teachings. We know from the above evidence from the New Testament that Jesus would not occupy any land/country.

Unlike Islaam that give a complete freedom to its subjects under Islaamic state, Judeo-Christian laws of Jizya جزية also comes with package deals like:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock. And the falsely accuse Islaam for slavery!

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

Read about:

Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30)

Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11)

God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2)

I must also point out to the readers the other words used in different English translations (of the Bible) for Jizya جزية:

NIV forced laborer
KJV tribute

ASV become servant to do the task word

(Nice ways to put it to be politically correct)

NAS forced laborer

NKJV forced laborer

Regarding the use to word “Tribute” let me quote Judeo-Christian sources):

TRIBUTE

(trib'-ut) (mac, "tribute," really meaning "forced laborers," "labor gang" (1 Kings 4:6; 9:15,21); also "forced service," "serfdom"; possibly "forced payment" is meant in Est 10:1; the idea contained in the modern word is better given by middah (Ezra 6:8; Neh 5:4)): Words used only of the duty levied for Yahweh on acquired spoils are mekhec, "assessment" (Num 31:28,37-41), belo, "excise" (Ezra 4:13,20; Neh 7:24), massa', "burden" (2 Chron 17:11), and `onesh, "fine"

(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 by Biblesoft)

A compulsory fee or financial contribution levied on an inferior by a superior ruler or nation. Before the establishment of the United Kingdom under David and Solomon, the judge Ehud brought tribute money to Eglon, the king of Moab (Judg 3:15-18). During the time of the United Kingdom, Israel was strong and received tribute. David received tribute from Moab and Syria (2 Sam 8:2,6; 1 Chron 18:2,6), and Solomon accepted tribute from "all kingdoms from the River [Euphratesl to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt" (1 Kings 4:21).

After the division of the kingdom in 931 B.C., King Ahab of the northern kingdom of Israel received tribute from the king of Moab (2 Kings 3:4-5). In the southern kingdom of Judah, Jehoshaphat received tribute from the Philistines and the Arabians (2 Chron 17:11). Uzziah also forced the Ammonites to pay tribute to Judah (2 Chron 26:8).

Even more is reported in the Bible about Israel and Judah paying tribute to foreign nations. Israel's king Jehoash paid tribute to Hazael of Syria to prevent attack (2 Kings 12:17-18). Hoshea paid tribute to Shalmaneser of Assyria (2 Kings 17:3). Judah's King Ahaz sent tribute to Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria (2 Kings 16:7-8). King Hezekiah paid tribute to Sennacherib of Assyria (2 Kings 18:13-16). Jehoiakim paid tribute to Pharaoh Necho of Egypt just before Judah was captured by Babylon (2 Kings 23:33-35). Although Israel was supposed to depend only on God for protection, the nation occasionally depended on foreign kings, paying heavily in tribute

(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright (c)1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

The irony of Judeo-Christians attacks on Islaam based on absolute disinformation and misrepresentation of the truth is that, their clergy and/or churches and temples are perpetrating them. The Christian clergy and Rabbis with degrees in divinity, theology, comparative religions and scriptures uttering absolute lies 24/7/365 in their sermons, and on TV (religious) and through their audiotapes, videos and books parrot this disinformation to their audiences; rather telling the truth that Judaism and Christianity also have Jizya جزية, which is worst and humiliating to the dignity of mankind contrary to Islaam. In fact, fear mongering by using Islaam and/or Muslims has become a multi billion-dollar business in USA alone, which subsequently creates and/or implants the seeds of personal bias and hatred against Islaam and Muslims. And to further spice things up some pseudo-events are often created around the world that are latter used as pretext[s] to attack Islaam and Muslims. After the end of cold war West needed another enemy, which they have found under the pretext of Islaam and Muslims. I will conclude my treatise quoting Samuel P. Huntington,

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

xyz has obviously been taking lessons in Tu-Quoque
from knowverylittle of the other night.

see Hugh at http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php

But enough, let us not feed the trolls.

Now Now, Terminator. We must be polite to the trolls. We will only have them for so long, and then its... So Long! Syanora! Hasta la vista...

Well, look at the bright side. Dr. Ibrahim seems to have a very Muslim name, so at least some in that religion have a conscience. I pray God that the man would be cleared and allowed to help keep his country from sliding closer to communal riots.

The US gives around $3 BILLION per year to Egypt... could they not pressure the Egyptian government to stop these human-right infringing actions on Egyptian Christians who, after all, share their religion with the US President and the overwhelming majority of US people, if not their denomination??

XYZ:

I'm glad to see you worked out your hate and anger issue that must have consumed you over the years,now that you found a Peaceful/Loving/Tolerant faith that respects all beliefs,I can see those qualities expressed within your orations and I envy your talents as a motivational speaker for educating others on your faith so they see the light and convert.

Please don't change a thing,Muhakmmed's Love and foregivenss oozes from you and there's no better example for us infidels to gain an insight
on how really bad the West is for allowing freewill and freedom of religion.

BTW, it would be more of a selling point if you fixed some spelling errors and learned about
capital letters for titles or proper names.

Yes XYZ

We know your type. You drop in here; dump a pile of Islamic mumbo-jumbo gobbledygook, then when people ask you serious questions you simply disappear. Congratulations - you've done your little dollop of spiritual Jihad and given us a few vacuous quotes and a stack of empty rhetoric. Wow, we are so impressed.

How about answering some serious questions?
The New Testament openly contradicts and replaces much of the philosophy of the Old Testament. This is called "the new covenant" which was purchased with the blood of Jesus. The fact that you quote the Old Testament as an authority, shows that you are completely ignorant of Christian theology. In fact Muslims are just ignorant, full stop. Debate, human rights, democracy, science - it's all a complete mystery to you people. All you know how to do is kill and destroy, because some child-molesting poetical bandit from the Dark Ages ordered you to die so you can go to porno sex slave heaven.
OK you want to debate with the infidel? ….

Here’s something…

How on earth were Roman taxes (tribute) the same as Jizya جزية.? The chief form of tax in the Roman Empire was the land-tax, based on a survey dividing land into private property. There was also the annona, paid in grain and devoted to the maintenance of the military establishment. Everybody paid this, Christians, Romans, Pagans, Druids, Greeks, Egyptians - everybody. Muslims seek to make “infidels” pay more taxes, but Roman citizens in fact paid a further 5% “legacy” which Roman subjects (conquered peoples) were exempt from (until Caracalla extended the citizenship to all provincials). So the Roman tax system – the one that Jesus (Son of God, of the trinity, who died on the cross) justified, was the complete opposite of the oppressive Jizya.

You don’t know history … but then again what does a Muslim know?

I know I’m talking to a brick wall.

Quote this to your Jihadist friends:

Isaiah 19:17 (King James Version)
And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt…

XYZ says:

"Jews need to get out of Palestine, while Christians must stop supporting the Jews. Also USA has no business in Afghanistan and Iraq, occupying these countries and stealing their resources."

Hmmmm....

Timbo says:

Muslims need to get out of the West, while Muslims must stop supporting terrorists. Also Muslims have no business in Europe and America (and Australia), infecting other countries (with their primitive hostile barbarism) and stealing their wealth.

..........

Every time I talk to Muslims, they don't take responsibility for anything. Everything they blame on the West. What is this? - Paranoia? Racism? A festering inferiority complex? Why can't you just be honest and admit that your heartless, monstrous religion is the author of your misfortunes - NOT US.

If we want to support Israel, THE ONLY FUNCTIONAL DEMOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST then we will! It tells us in the Bible to pray for Israel, and we are not going to ignore this just because a bunch of alien fascists tell us to. Personally I don't think Israel even needs our support, they kicked Arab butts in four wars and I'm sure they could do it ten more times without our help. Note: This is what happens when God is on your side.

My main grudge against Israel and the Jews is that they are too soft on you people. You were conquered by the Jews, a superior civilization, the chosen people of God - woe to the vanquished. Read the Bible a bit more - it tells you they would come back; it also tells you how to be descent civilized human being.

Jesus loves you - progressive modern civilization doesn't.

XXY(*) says:

"In fact, fear mongering by using Islaam and/or Muslims has become a multi billion-dollar business in USA alone."

I WISH!!!!!! I WISH!!!!!

(*) ”XXY boys do not progress normally through puberty. Their testes remain child-sized and therefore do not produce enough of the male hormone testosterone. As adolescents, XXY boys are taller than average and may lack facial hair. About one-third of XXY boys will develop enlarged breasts, a condition known as gynecomastia. This is different than just fat accumulation that gives the appearance of having breasts--it is true breast development.” http://rarediseases.about.com/cs/sexchromosome/a/092900.htm

Timbo:

You are masterful - however, you are feeding the troll. ;-)

Come on up to the current threads - I doubt this troll will even see your response. There's one called "whitequeen" (a British convert, no less) that you'd love to take on.

Yes I suppose you're right...

I could not find Whitequeen anywhere. Where is this traitor?

I know you're right. Islam is so "dead from the neck up" that they can't answer anything. So they just hit and run. It seems like a waste of energy - but if these remarks do go unanswered then some people who surf in might think we have no answers.

I think it would be really interesting for a Muslim to post here and to make an honest attempt at fielding questions. Because of the flawed nature of Islam, and the complete failure of Islamic civilization over the last 500 years, I don't think it's possible, but I would love to see one try.

I find his logic breathtaking. In 2001, out of the blue, four planes wipe out 3,000 lives in the USA. This vile act, perpetrated in the name of Islam, caused the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. You already know my opinions on this, but this asinine Arab writes:

"pseudo-events are often created around the world that are latter used as pretext[s] to attack Islaam and Muslims. After the end of cold war West needed another enemy, which they have found under the pretext of Islaam and Muslims."

Is he sane? What planet does he live on? And who the hell is Samuel P. Huntington?
He says “pseudo-events are often created” which is a huge allegation and yet he makes no attempt to qualify his statement. His hate is the answer. His hate is the logic. They always do this. They are the biggest charlatans in human history.