But not so far that AP couldn't find them. (Thanks to Ali Dashti for the link.) And of course, if they actually cooperated with authorities in anti-terror efforts, most of their worries about civil liberties would evaporate.
PARIS — The Omar Mosque was packed with several hundred worshippers, forcing the overflow into a cold alley and a nearby cafe.No fiery words blared from the loudspeaker, no calls in this formerly hard-line mosque for holy war against Jews or the U.S. occupation of Iraq. A government crackdown has forced such militant talk from radical Muslims deep underground into "secret prayer rooms," and what's left here is a cloud of suspicion and hostile glances at visitors.
"We come here to pray," said Soufian Mahdawi, a bearded 22-year-old in a white Arab robe and a headdress. "We don't want any tension, any problems. We try not to interfere in anyone's affairs and to keep to ourselves."Mr. Madawi, born in Paris to Tunisian parents, refused to even discuss Iraq.
Another young man of Tunisian origin, Fouad Mohsen, 28, said televised scenes of mayhem in Iraq have had considerable impact on the psyche of Muslims here. But he said he wasn't into politics and didn't know anyone who had joined the fight against the U.S. occupation.
The two young men are members of a Muslim North African community that's the prime target of a relentless French campaign to root out terrorist threats.
Over the past several years, especially following the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, French authorities have adopted some of the toughest anti-terrorism laws and policies in Europe — including pre-emptive arrests, ethnic profiling and interrogation without the presence of defense attorneys.
The authorities have more than 40 mosques under watch. Police agents in civilian clothes reportedly mill in and outside mosques, recording speeches of the prayer leaders, or imams.
As a result, most of the radical preaching that calls for jihad, or holy war, and aims to recruit young Frenchmen for the insurgency in Iraq is not carried out in the open, said Gilles Leclair, director of France's Anti-Terrorism Coordination Unit.
"Most of them are clandestine ... secret prayer rooms, not in the official mosques," Mr. Leclair told AP.
So the authorities sometimes resort to unconventional tactics.
According to Mr. Leclair, if officials have information that "Mr. Mohammed X" is a suspect but have no solid evidence, they have no qualms about finding something in his personal life, like a past complaint from his abused wife, to detain him for questioning.
"Sometimes, of course, we can bring some trouble in the personal life, but I think it's better to [make] trouble for some people for one day and avoid 200 to 300 people from dying in a blast," Mr. Leclair said.
Police tread a thin line between ensuring security and eroding civil liberties with such tactics aimed at militants among France's 6 million Muslims.
"Today, if you are a Muslim, you are more afraid than if you are not a Muslim," said Aziz Zemouri, 36, a writer whose parents immigrated from Tunisia.
Since the 1980s, French police have been planting informants to penetrate the Muslim population and have recruited Muslim detectives.
"I think there's a mixed opinion on this among the Muslim community," said Mr. Zemouri. Some help the police because they believe radicalism is bad for the Arab community, he said.
Mr. Zemouri, who is not an Arab but a Berber — a people indigenous to North Africa long before the arrival of the Arabs in the eighth century — believes civil liberties are suffering. "You are kept in a secret place for four days without any lawyer and often you never know why they have arrested you. They put pressure on you and sometimes beat you."...
"There are many pieces of the puzzle," said France's Anti-Terrorism Coordination chief, stressing the difficulty of monitoring the movement of French volunteers to Iraq and the difficulties of the battle against terrorism."It's a long war," added Mr. Leclair. "It's the war of our century."
Yes it is.
I get two different accounts of France nowadays. One claims that Muslims are taking over, stories of teenage girls not wearing a hijab being gang-raped (revolved) in Muslim communities, hate-crimes against Jews, etc. Then a story like this....which one is it?
"Mr. Zemouri, who is not an Arab but a Berber — a people indigenous to North Africa long before the arrival of the Arabs in the eighth century — believes civil liberties are suffering. "You are kept in a secret place for four days without any lawyer and often you never know why they have arrested you. They put pressure on you and sometimes beat you."..."
Is Mr. Zemouri betraying a longing for the "good old days"?
With demographic conquest almost a sure thing, why are the violent efforts of Islamists necessary? Eventually Muslims want to live in peace. (Peace is the absence of enemies -- through death and destruction or non-violent merger as is happening in Europe today!)
Till the recent past radical Muslim groups were pretty much left alone to say whatever they wanted in their groups, clubs, mosques, whatever. We weren't paying attention because what goes on in your typical house of worship isn't of interest to anyone.
Then we woke up.
If the fanatics are taking their ranting threats and incitements underground then we have to go underground also. This would be a life altering/time consuming mission -- going underground/undercover.
But how else to be a fly on the wall, so to speak? Wait for the government to get a handle on it?
I don't think getting the attention of a proselytizing Muslim is the difficult part. One need only show up at one of their events and smile warmly. Da'wa is mandated so it's only a matter of time.
One need only say the right thing:
"I can't explain it but my heart is drawn to Islam."
"The religion of my birth is no longer satisfying -- I'm no longer spiritually fulfilled by _ _ _ _ [fill in the blank].
"When I watch the news about Iraq and Palestine my heart aches for the Muslim people. I can't seem to stop thinking about them. I want to do something but I feel so helpless"
"I've been struggling with Arabic. To really improve I think I need a teacher."
This is not for your average person who has a family at home etc. Better for singles or committed couples. It takes a dedicated, strong person to live a total lie (unless your Islamofacist) The danger here (among others) is getting completely sucked in and starting to sympathize, identify with/falling in love with the Muslims ala Stockholm syndrome.
"It's a long war," added Mr. Leclair. "It's the war of our century."
WOW OH MY!!
Over the past several years, especially following the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, French authorities have adopted some of the toughest anti-terrorism laws and policies in Europe — including pre-emptive arrests, ethnic profiling and interrogation without the presence of defense attorneys.
The authorities have more than 40 mosques under watch. Police agents in civilian clothes reportedly mill in and outside mosques, recording speeches of the prayer leaders, or imams.
DO YOU YHINK THE LIBS KNOW ABOUT THIS??
AND WHY ARE THE FRENCH CRYING ABOUT GETMO THEN??
AFTER ALL THOSE MONSTERS WERE CAUGHT ON THE BATTLEFIELD??
I THINK WE HERE IN THE REST OF THE WEST NEED TO DO THESE THINGS AND DAMN THE LIB'S
Part of the American Tribe
Spider Killer
Squirrel Hunter
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Amen
think
Mosques are a large part of the Problem!Every one of them should be bugged and under supervision.No funding from Saudi Arabia to build more should be allowed : there are FAR TOO MANY MOSQUES
SPREADING LIKE A CANCER OVER THE FACE OF EUROPE AND THE WEST.If we fail, the world faces a return to Barbarism and a New Dark Ages falling on Humanity. Forget P.C - hope this news from France is true.As Catherine says, Time to Arm Ourselves
whether it is illegal or not according to our governments.
Morgane-
A book from 1939 -with a title once again prophetic: "Lest Darkness Fall" by L. Sprague De Camp -a sci-fi work in the manner of H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine" (only going backward to the wane of the Roman Empire)- would surely be banned in Europe if anyone knew what its hero had to warn about the glorious pedophile Mohammad (who will be appearing shortly on Earth in this novel's timeline). He says:
"Further, our slight ability to foresee the future informs us that in about thirty years there will be born in Arabia a man named Mohammed, who, preaching a heretical religion, will, unless stopped, instigate a great wave of barbarian conquest, subverting the rule both of the Persian Kingdon and the East Roman Empire. We respectfully urge the desirability of securing control of the Arabian peninsula forthwith, that this calamity shall be stopped at its source."
What writer of speculative fiction alive today would dare pen such sentiments?
Ask Salman Rushdie. (Or try to ask his Japanese translator who was knifed to death by a Muslim lunatic in the Land of the Rising Sun some years back. Try real hard. The answer is instructive.)
The silence that Islamic fanatics love.
The silence of the grave.
A popular sonic event we are sure to hear more of.
PROFITSBEARD
Thanks for the name and author of this Book! Have made a note and will try to get hold of it.
Sounds very interesting.
Cheers